An unimpressive number

A quick link to George Howland Jr.’s election contest coverage in The Seattle Weekly. I think he pretty much sums up my take on the election… though in a much more dispassioned voice.

After months of effort by top legal teams, the Republicans, who sued the state and most of the state’s 39 counties, have come up with around 1,000 illegal votes

Comments

  1. 1

    chardonnay spews:

    So he admits the R’s have a case. He also does not mention what other evidence the R’s might have (cuz he doesn’t know)This is gonna be good, let the games begin. Only 19 more days.

  2. 2

    AllHatAndNoHorse spews:

    the repugs. should lose, and be assessed all costs for this suit, they should.
    some punitive damages also, i think.
    stick it to them good, we should.
    Maybe some defamation lawsuits.
    treat them, like they treat others, we should.

  3. 3

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Goldy–
    So what % of the Dems “felons” are going to prove to be validated? I understand they are off to a BAD START. One County Auditor spent less than 2 minutes calling the “felon” to find out her rights were restored in 1999 and then verified it with another quick phone call. Impressive work by Berendt.

    I told you Goldy…rather than blabbing on & on & on…you and your PINHEADED LEFTIST PALS should have been working rounding up hard evidence. How many times and how long ago did I tell you to get busy Goldy?? Dozens of times starting 3 months ago!!!
    Did you listen to me???? But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
    Get started dude…
    Oh and remember, there is a lot more to this election contest than the felons but you just keep on believing it’s only the felons, OK???
    HINT–Re-read both Logan & Huennekens depositions. They both reveal the other key. Look in the mirror Goldy. See that schnoz on your face??? The key is as evident as your schnoz.

    However, the felons may very well be enough.
    One other issue will be the frosting.

    “This election is a model for the rest of the nation and the world at large.”
    —Christine Gregoire, short-timer

  4. 4

    GS spews:

    ALl I will say about this is with only a 129 vote so called win, and the largestest tax hikes and regulation BS in the history of this state, she and you all better hope there is not an election soon. She and the democrats are toast in the next election!

  5. 5

    chardonnay spews:

    What about the KING COUNTY election workers that printed extra ballots and took them home? I just can’t get that off my mind. Does anyone else think they were same as the moveon people that solicited votes door to door in Burien?

  6. 7

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Wow–
    Dems just announced another 112 felons…now 544.
    Gee, I wonder why the HorsesTass (errr…P-I) hasn’t bothered to call County Auditors to see how many of the Dem “felons” are real???? Perhaps they have…and just don’t want to report the truth cuz it isn’t pretty.

  7. 8

    drivel spews:

    K @ 6, if you are a frequent visitor to this blog, you will notice that charonnay never proves anything, just repeats talking points, blatant lies and inuendos.

  8. 9

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    drivel–
    Why don’t you actually do something productive and call some County Auditors tomorrow and find out how many of the Dems now 544 “felons” are legit.
    Oh, I forgot…you are just like the other LAZY LEFTIST FUCKS that blab and blab instead of finding hard evidence.
    Just keep the drivel flowin’!
    I have called 2 County Auditors and left messages for a number of others about the Dems felon list. I have already seen a number of them that are absolutely FALSE….rights were restored and that information was found in a matter of minutes.

    Before you criticize sweet Char…give us a quick list of all the things you’ve proven shitferbrains.
    ANSWER: Nothing!!

  9. 10

    scottd spews:

    Hope springs eternal, but Rossi supporters who imagine that the GOP is sitting on bombshell evidence are going to be disappointed. They’ve already shot their wad and have already dropped a number of their original claims — what’s left just isn’t very impressive.

    This isn’t Perry Mason. Real trials don’t turn on dramatic courtroom revelations. The Republicans are required to state their case in pre-trial pleadings and make their evidence available during discovery. We’ve already seen the bulk of their case. All that’s left is the final deposition of competing felon lists and a hearing to see whether the judge can be convinced that voting patterns of non-felons are substantially predictive of felon voting. He’ll also need to determine what level of statistical confidence (if any) is sufficient to overturn a certified election. My guess is that confidence level will need to be much greater than the 50% some seem to be counting on.

    There may be some surprises on the Democratic side since they are allowed to present evidence of errors and illegal votes that favor Rossi. As respondents, development of their case is on a later timetable than the GOP case, so we may have more to see there.

    I don’t understand the blather about election workers printing their own ballots. If there were anything to that, you could bet the GOP would have already filed on it. They know it’s a dead issue.

  10. 12

    John spews:

    Further on, Even makes clear that if the election is successfully proved invalid in court, the judge should order a new election or declare Rossi the winner.

    A new election? Either Howland got what Even said wrong or this Even guy is talking out of his butt.

    Didn’t Bridges rule that the only outcome is that Rossi is or is not Governor?

  11. 15

    christmasghost spews:

    Sheesh…all this whistling past the graveyard by you supposedly superior lefty beings….heh heh heh……keep up the good work.

  12. 16

    chardonnay spews:

    scott, are you telling me that you read the entire depo of dean logan and you found nothing about the elections dept “common” practices odd or illegal?

  13. 17

    Wayne spews:

    If the Snark, BIAW and the rest had been doing any more than blowing warm, stinky air even 5% of the time they have claimed to have the goods on the election, Rossi would already be governor. To the extent cheap white whine, Mr. C and the rest are rubbing their hands together about some great revelation from the depositions, it is either something taken out of context or totally misconstrued. In SP land, if there are two explanations for a set of facts, one innocent and one involving democratic skullduggery, then fraud has been proven. In fact, if there were four, or even forty, innocent explanations and one sinister, the result would be no different.

    If the GOP really had something, Snark wouldn’t wait two seconds before trumpeting it as the key to Rossi taking office. And Mr. “Paul Berendt is going to jail for handing in false affidavits!” Cynical has absolutely no credibility. Mr. C: this is about the hundredth time you have promised some stunning surprise. You have no credibility. If you think you have something, spit it out so we can enjoy poking holes in it. Until then, it is obvious you have nothing.

  14. 18

    Wayne spews:

    Even if the elections dept. was doing something illegal, the GOP must show the misconduct caused Gregoire to win to be relevant in the challenge. In fact the statute could be interpreted to mean the illegal practice was intended to change the election result, although I am not sure I agree with that. At any rate, illegal practices alone don’t cut it. That’s why the GOP dropped the improper enhancement claim.

  15. 19

    scottd spews:

    Chardonnay: I’m telling you that it doesn’t matter what you or I find unusual in Dean Logan’s deposition. What matters is the specific allegations made by Republicans in state court and their ability to make a case on those allegations, based in state law. So far, the case they are making centers on illegal votes and proportional analysis. Their own lawyers have been quoted as saying that is really all they have.

    You seem to think the GOP has some other ace up its sleeve. Since I haven’t heard of any new theories in their court pleadings I think you’re going to be disappointed. Let me know if you know otherwise.

  16. 20

    chardonnay spews:

    did you read dean logans depo? IF you read the whole thing and found nothing ODD or unusual about the business as usual in the King County election department then you are past saving. save the earth, go straight to the hospice and call George Felos. Set the earth free of your noxious gas.

  17. 21

    scottd spews:

    What part of my post don’t you understand, Chardonnay? It doesn’t matter what I think — I’m not a party to the suit.

    The people prosecuting the election challenge seem to think their only hope is in the illegal votes theory. If they thought there was anything to your paranoid theories, you can bet they would be filing on it and we would hear about it.

    Anyway, if it helps you get through the night, believe what you want. I’m just trying to prepare you for the coming disappointment.

  18. 22

    chardonnay spews:

    Scott: Of course it doesn’t matter what you or I think about Deans depo. It may/shall matter to the Judge.
    If you read his depo and you seriously found nothing ODD then what can I say. You said “SO FAR the case they are making” do you think the R’s have revealed absolutely everything they have? I don’t.
    I really do pray for Jenny Durkin because if she doesn’t win this…well lets just say that I’d be afraid of crissy. they go back, still, look at Mike.

  19. 23

    chardonnay spews:

    scott @ 21
    thanks for looking out for me.
    tell me though, is it mandatory for both sides to file everything right now?

  20. 24

    scottd spews:

    Chardonnay: Go back to my first post on this thread. The GOP doesn’t get to spring new theories on the court during trial. They have to present their theories and evidence during discovery and pre-trial motions. Court isn’t a game of gotcha! surprises like you see on TV. Its rules are based on the deliberate consideration of evidence along with opportunity for adequate rebuttal. It’s getting pretty late in the came for the GOP to be introducing new theories.

    As for the rest of your post — sorry, but I don’t have the codebook so I don’t know what you’re talking about.

  21. 26

    Erik spews:

    Hope springs eternal, but Rossi supporters who imagine that the GOP is sitting on bombshell evidence are going to be disappointed.

    Yeah. The sqwuaking factor is higher among the orange crowd than I have seen for months. And all that Goldy did was link to an article. Gesh.

    Its one thing for the democrats and moderates to believe Rossi’s chances are nil but given the rate of exclamation marks, use of the repeat key and all caps in the last few days, the right wingers look like they have given up much hope. All that is left is cursing.

    You said “SO FAR the case they are making” do you think the R’s have revealed absolutely everything they have? I don’t.

    I guess thats as close as we are going to get as to a concession that Rossi’s chances are nil in the election contest : the holdout and hope for some new groundbreaking evidence and/or legal theory at trial.

  22. 27

    scottd spews:

    I suppose it is, but I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know the technical definition of “evidence”. At any rate, I think depositions are sworn statements that are part of the court record. I’m not sure what your point is.

    My point is that the GOP needs to make specific allegations before the trial gets underway. I don’t know what the deadlines are, but I would suppose that those allegations need to be made early enough to allow respondents adequate time for discovery to rebut the allegations. So far, the GOP allegations center on the felon votes and other illegal voters.

    Any revelations you think exist in the depositions don’t mean much unless the GOP ties them to specific allegations made in their pleading. At least, that’s my understanding. Maybe some of the lawyers on this board can educate us further.

  23. 29

    Richard Pope spews:

    ScottD @ Various

    You have a pretty concise and to the point summary. However, I think the GOP theory of voterless ballots is still alive as well. It may be more difficult to prove, if Judge Bridges wants stronger evidence of the number of people who voted, rather than relying on the crediting records. (He made that ruling for illegal felon voters, so it should apply in other settings as well.)

    It really wouldn’t be that difficult to copy and scan all of the precinct poll books, accepted absentee ballot envelopes, and accepted provisional ballot envelopes. They could then be sorted out by precinct and counted, and then compared to the actual number of ballots counted.

    It might cost $100,000 to $200,000 to do this for King County, but that is a small amount compared to the $4 million that the GOP has already spent on this election contest. And if it appears beyond a reasonable doubt that there are voterless ballots, then that is certainly fraud, and a mere 129 of them should suffice to overturn the election. If not, then the proportional analysis would almost have to be accepted for stuffed ballots.

  24. 30

    scottd spews:

    And if it appears beyond a reasonable doubt that there are voterless ballots, then that is certainly fraud, and a mere 129 of them should suffice to overturn the election.

    Well, no — there’s nothing certain about it. Mistakes get made all the time, even in the pollbooks. It’s one of the consequences of running elections on the cheap with temporary workers and little supervision or training.

    I would agree that a large number of unaccounted for ballots concentrated in a few precincts would be very suspicious. But randomly scattered discrepancies of one or two ballots in a minority of precincts wouldn’t be surprising. A very clever fraudster might pull that off, but simple error is a more likely scenario so I don’t think the existence of that type of discrepancy comes anywhere close to meeting the burden of proof for fraud.

    You may be right that the avenue of showing voter fraud by way of “voterless ballots” is still open. But earlier claims by the GOP along this line were wildly exaggerated and based on unSound methodology. Performing a detailed examination of poll records might put the claim on more solid ground, but, as you’ve noted, this method would be expensive. If it just reveals a broad scattering of small errors, it wouldn’t be very persuasive of fraud and it also wouldn’t show that the alleged fraud was in Gregoire’s favor.

    My guess is, the GOP has already made that calculation and decided it’s a theory not worth pursuing.

  25. 31

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Richard Pope @29–
    You had to go and tell them the other key avenue before bedtime, didn’t you. That’s mean Richard!
    Now they will be forced to lie in bed tossing and turning and sweating to figure out ways to spin that it is absolutely, perfectly ok and understandable and acceptable (actually even desirable!!) to have more votes than voters.
    The KingCo Canvassing MELTDOWN is quite interesting reading.
    Now what did the Canvassing Board attest to??
    What does the law require they attest to??
    Did they follow the law???
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
    Are there more votes than voters?
    YEEEEEESSSSSSSSS!
    What are the consequences when you know where a voterless vote has occurred?
    Let’s see what the Judge says.
    Will he say “Cool, I’m happy. This election was so poorly run. I’m glad. Great below average work Dean!”

    Keep looking at those pleadings.
    Wayne & scottd still feel the trial must have already occurred.
    I thought the trial was May 23rd…isn’t it Richard?

  26. 32

    Wayne spews:

    Voterless voters will go nowhere because the GOP can’t prove there was no voter. Unless, as Scott says, the discrepancy is concentrated in a few precincts, it is not evidence of fraud. If one signature was missed in each precinct over the course of the entire day, it would lead to 2616 apparently voterless ballots. The GOP has to prove illegal ballots, King County does not have to prove the ballots were legal. This is a paranoid Snark/BIAW conspiracy theory, not evidence.

  27. 33

    AllHatAndNoHorse spews:

    wayne@32,

    They have so much time and money invested in dirt, its difficult to let go. The security blanket.
    The blanket is about to be pulled away.

  28. 34

    righton spews:

    Maybe Maria Cantwell can loan some more of her Real Networks fortune (oops, forgot, it vanished and she had to borrow from the interest groups she now works for)