AG McKenna lauds BIAW for suing Sec. of State

Let me be the first to call for Attorney General Rob McKenna’s resignation. Or at the very least, a very public mea culpa.

Yesterday in the Tacoma News Tribune, Ken Vogel reported on McKenna’s outspoken support for the Building Industry Association of Washington’s (BIAW) efforts to unseat Gov. Christine Gregoire: “Attorney general lauds GOP ally for collecting evidence.” The BIAW gathered much of the “evidence” used by Republicans in their election contest lawsuit, and financed the bulk of Rossi’s unprecedented and dishonest PR campaign to convince the public that this was a stolen election, regardless of the facts. That McKenna would sympathize with these efforts is no surprise, but that he would be so blatant in his public praise for the BIAW at the same time his office is charged with defending the secretary of state — the primary defendant in the suit — is at the very least unethical… if not a total disgrace.

“He’s supporting the entity that’s suing him and it is totally inappropriate for someone who is defending the secretary of state’s office,” said State Democratic Party Chairman Paul Berendt.

McKenna gave the keynote speech at a BIAW meeting, and he was unequivocal in his praise for both the organization, and it’s prominent and controversial role in the election contest. How blatant were his comments? Well, the BIAW, in their typical arrogant fashion, quotes a few of them for us in its March newsletter.

Attorney General Rob McKenna was the keynote speaker at the BIAW General Membership Luncheon at the Board of Directors meeting in Olympia. McKenna praised BIAW’s efforts in electing pro-business candidates in the November election, as well as for the association’s ongoing efforts to aid Dino Rossi’s legal challenge by finding illegal felon votes. McKenna noted BIAW made the most efficient and effective use of its campaign resources, using creative and high impact ideas to achieve the “biggest bang for a buck.” “BIAW is powerful, principled and effective — three important attributes,” said McKenna. “BIAW isn’t intimidated. BIAW doesn’t wilt under pressure,” he said. “That’s why the left fears BIAW. If every organization was as principled, it would be a far better state.” McKenna concluded his speech by thanking BIAW for its fearless and courageous leadership, and encouraged the association to keep up the battle.

Creative ideas? Oh… you mean like mailing out a fraudulent survey to hundreds of Seattle residents in an effort to trick them into giving up their signatures. High impact efforts? I suppose that might be the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on direct mail, billboards, radio, and print advertising proclaiming “Felons vote, Soldiers don’t,” when in fact all the evidence shows that military ballots were mailed on time, and returned in similar percentages as regular absentee ballots. Pro-business candidates? Yup, that would be candidates like McKenna, on whom the BIAW spent millions of dollars in “independent expenditures” electing.

But regardless of how much McKenna owes his victory to the BIAW and its vicious, partisan hackery, as our state’s elected Attorney General, he steps far outside accepted notions of propriety in lauding and encouraging their role in suing his client. Given ass-licking statements like this, how can we expect McKenna’s office to impartially defend the state from lawsuits he clearly wants the state to lose? In closely following the court proceedings I have been taken aback when the secretary of state’s attorneys frequently side with the Republicans suing them. While the state’s attorneys have generally presented well reasoned arguments, being reasonable is not their job; our legal system is adversarial, and their job is to defend the secretary of state as vigorously as possible… as vigorously as the Republicans are pursuing their case.

McKenna does not have the luxury of picking and choosing cases to defend… he must defend the state from all lawsuits, and to the best of his office’s ability. When Christine Gregoire was attorney general, her office vigorously defended Tim Eyman’s stupid initiatives, as she was required by law. Hell… she even sued me to prevent me from putting my “horse’s ass” initiative on the ballot. That’s the type of impartial, nonpartisan execution of the office we’ve come to expect from our attorney general. And that’s the type of ethical and moral compass Rob McKenna clearly lacks.

When our state’s top law enforcement officer chooses to exercise his power for partisan political gain, all our citizens are at risk.

Comments

  1. 1

    pbj spews:

    Goldy,

    Is this where you prove that you are the entertaining one and not the intelligent one? You did a good job of it. I almow busted a gut when you started holding up Gregoire as a model attorney general. Yeah, someone who forgets to file a motion in time and causes the state to lose a $10 million lawsuit is a “model” AG. But then again, judging by the liberal definition of “model election” I guess I am not surprised.

    Keep the comedy coming Goldy!

  2. 3

    enough_of_this_bullshit spews:

    Well if anyone should know about inappropriate behavior it’s paul berendt the head of the democratic inappropriate behavior division. (for the record Chris Vance is in charge of the republican inappropriate behavior division)

    Give me a break goldy…../even Sam Reed has said the if he knew then what he knows now he would’ve ask that the election not be certified on Jan 11th. and who supplied him with most of that info…..gee maybe it was the BIAW.

    When I see Berendt gettin’ all lathered up over shit comin out of chrissy’s mouth..then we’ll talk.

  3. 6

    Danw spews:

    Partisan politics is okay as long as it supports corporate shills like Business Is Ass Wipeing.

    I was reading the BIAW website, and instead of safety training for employees, they train Employers how to keep L and I inspectors off their property. Yep they’re they are supporting the common worker.

    Meanwhile the snark has learned from Tim Eyman….make $100,000 a year in the novelty watch business…without selling a watch.
    Just publish what he is told to.

  4. 7

    Goldy spews:

    TJ @5,

    Yup… that’s exactly what I’m talking about. This election was certified by the state. The AG’s primary responsibility is to defend the state… to the best of his ability. That’s how the adversarily system works. If not for the Democrats entering the case as intervenors, the state would have rolled over. Hmm… I wonder why?

  5. 8

    righton spews:

    Rolling on the floor laughing. Talk about stretching for your own scandal to play with…..aaaaahhhhhhhhh

  6. 9

    Dr. Quest and Rance spews:

    If Jim West even tries to get near Johnny and Hadji, we’ll pummel him like a stuffed Panda.
    What was that about stretching to find a scandal?

  7. 10

    prr spews:

    Goldy @ 7: “Yup… that’s exactly what I’m talking about. This election was certified by the state. The AG’s primary responsibility is to defend the state… to the best of his ability. ”

    So what about the AG defending the interest of the public?

    Or is that position there to just prosecute the public, at the publics expemse?

    PRR

  8. 11

    N in Seattle spews:

    PRR, if you want an AG who defends the interest of the public, I assume that you were therefore a fervent supporter of Deborah Senn.

    In addition to the multi-million dollar smear campaign fomented by the US Chamber of Commerce, she was subjected to the criticism that the AG’s job is to defend and otherwise support the interest of the state of Washington, not the residents thereof. That criticism, alas, is well-founded in the definition of the AG’s role.

    Too bad Rob McKenna decided to abrogate that responsibility, and to act precisely at odds with his charge.

  9. 12

    righton spews:

    Not fair; making me laugh then making me visualize Deborah Senn; oh, ouch, now I hear her voice.

    You guys need to pack your Subarus and heck to the folklife festival. Mellow out.

  10. 13

    Felix Fermin spews:

    Government of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations. God bless us, everyone!

  11. 14

    Hank Venture and Samson spews:

    “heck to the folklife festival”

    Gee, who doesn’t like folk music?

  12. 16

    Kevster spews:

    Goldy:

    Your trolls show a very interesting pattern of deflecting arguments of improper behavior by citing pseudoexamples of dems doing it. I think you are absolutely right. McKenna appears to be a shameless hack who has not figured out that his job is to represent the people of the state of Washington, not to seek higher office. It is indeed possible to do both as Gregoire has clearly shown (hell, I’ll give them Gorton on that one).

  13. 17

    Hypocrisy rears its head on the left spews:

    Where is your outrage at Ron Simms? I heard him explain to AL Frankenstein on Air America a couple weeks ago that he could not wait to be sued for not allowing gays to marry. Did he forget that it is not him that really gets sued but the taxpayers? Here you have a guy that cannot wait to have the taxpayers of King County sued? And he also stated that he hoped that he would lose. Again, it is not him that would lose it would be the taxpayer. But since he is a liberal I guess this is O.K.

  14. 18

    Hank Venture and Samson spews:

    Eugenics @ 17 Where is the outrage about ______? I didn’t hear a peep about _____! What about _____?

    Let’s hear you denounce McKenna, or because he is a repug it is OK?

  15. 19

    Goldy spews:

    Hippo @17,

    Now, if it was KC Prosecutor Norm Maleng who had made that statement, you might have something here.

  16. 20

    Hypocrisy rears its head on the left spews:

    I don’t denounce either of them. It is the left with the hypocrisy. They have opinions and just because they work for the state does not mean they cannot form a personal opinion about an issue. I don’t get a rats ass that Simms wants to be sued and lose, but it is no less of a “Scandal” then the McKenna issue. Just be consistent, I know it is hard for lefty’s.

  17. 22

    spews:

    I have to say, those comments by Sims, if true, were unwise. I don’t have a real problem with him saying he wants KC to be sued, because the issue will eventually come up, and if he personally feels the law is wrong, litigation will resolve the issue quickly.

    However, it’s not appropriate for him to say he hopes he loses. It’s his job to uphold the current law of the City. Now, there’s a difference between Sims and Ahearne or McKenna, because the latter two are literally charged with doing everything in their power to defend the state against lawsuits. But in principle, Sims shouldn’t be indicating that King will not seek to defend itself properly.

  18. 23

    Hypocrisy rears its head on the left spews:

    Goldy@19 – Why?

    The executive of the county wants to be sued and wants to lose. Seems just as bad as the prosecutor, or worse. After all the executive is the top representive of the County and the prosecutor just prosecutes on behalf of the county. Presecutors don’t make policy and don’t speak/represent the citizens, the same as the County Executive does.

  19. 25

    Hypocrisy rears its head on the left spews:

    I almost forgot…. Goldy was in the audience when Ron Sims made these comments on the AL Frankenstein show.

  20. 27

    Patrick spews:

    The attorney general’s job is to represent the state’s interest in legal proceedings. If McKenna starts politicizing the office or using it to promote a party’s partisan agenda, he should be a one-termer. Gregoire never did that.

  21. 28

    steven spews:

    I confess, I voted for him. I hoped he would be a somewhat moderate and even handed AG, but I was wrong. Fool me once….

  22. 29

    Hank Venture and Samson spews:

    Hypo @ 20 “I don’t denounce either of them. It is the left with the hypocrisy”

    Then in a hypo manner @ 23 “The executive of the county wants to be sued and wants to lose. Seems just as bad as the prosecutor, or worse”

    Again Hypo, your hypocricy shinesd like a becon. But All you really want to do is deflect attention from McKenna by the old “Yeah, but what about _____!?

    Hypocricy does rear it’s ugly head.

    What you say, Dr. Girlfriend?

  23. 30

    pbj spews:

    You are worried about impartiality? You mean like Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle, who denies partisan motives for his investigation of a political group founded by Republican leader Tom DeLay while he was the featured speaker last week at a Democratic fund-raiser where he spoke directly about the congressman?

    Interesting how impartiality only matters when it is your ox being gored.

  24. 31

    pbj spews:

    Said fundraier where over $100,000 was raised for a Democrat partisan political action committee, Texas Values in Action Coalition, raising campaign money to take control of the state Legislature from the GOP, organizers said.

  25. 32

    pbj spews:

    Having good government and fair elections IS his in the interest of the state. That the Republicans should succeed would be in the interest of both those things.

  26. 33

    spews:

    pbj, maybe you should count up the number of Democratic political officials he has prosecuted, compared to the number of Republicans. You won’t like the results.

    And he must be so good that he convinced a court that DeLay’s treasurer was guilty of campaign finance fraud, despite being a partisan hack!

  27. 35

    headless lucy spews:

    That self-important little twat Stefan Shartwatski banned me from commenting on his little electronic rag again. He’s done this many times. I’ll have to go back over my comments and find the one that pissed him off so I can keep wringing that nerve until it hurts. It was probably the reminder that I was right about Tom Delay and the Newsweek thing as well. He’s selling bumper stickers that say: “Newsweek Lied, People Died.” What utter trash this man is.

  28. 36

    All tools here, and yet thereare still screws loose spews:

    I applaud McKenna, even if you look at it from the partisan slant you always do. He is vocalizing the fact that some will stand up for what is right, even if it is against the “wrong” that he is elected in to protect.

  29. 37

    All tools here, and yet thereare still screws loose spews:

    brainless lucy @ 35

    You ‘tard he isn’t selling bumper stickers, his sponsors are.

  30. 39

    headless lucy spews:

    Would he accept advertising from Larry Flynt? That’s his call. He decides who advertises and who doesn’t. And:If you called me ‘tard to my face I’d choke you until you’re body went limp. We don’t allow that kind of namecalling here, Limp Wick….

  31. 40

    Kevin Judge spews:

    A@36
    You guys on the right (you prisoners in the jail of certainty) will say and do anything in favor of your “team” irregardless of its propriety or fairness. You are the worst sort of cowards who cannot engage on objective fact because the only data that matters is whatever advances your cause. The current version of Christo-facsist zombi-ism that is now the national (and apparently the local) republican party abhors objective facts and will twist whatever data exists to fit the agenda. (Gee, sounds a little like making the “facts” fit the policy-where have I heard that before?) Even in the face of republican judges ruling against you (as no doubt Bridges will), you will still scream foul and claim that this was a “stolen” election facilitated by a liberal judge (in Chelan county of all places). As someone on the left who has endured two consecutive stolen presidential elections I know a foul when I see one and this ain’t it.

  32. 43

    All tools here, and yet thereare still screws loose spews:

    Kevin Judge @ 40

    How is that victim schtick working out for you? I mean it really doesn’t suit you or any other democrat for that matter, but hey man milk it for as much as you can get, but don’t expect to get an ounce of sympathy from me.

  33. 44

    chardonnay spews:

    McKenna supporting the BIAW is no different than Gregoire pandering to the UNIONS and the TRIBES and the ENVIRONMENTALISTS.

    most hilarious news of the day is HL being banned from SP. ROFLMAO, LUCY, so was diggindude.

  34. 45

    headless lucy spews:

    I’m serious. I can really do these things. An army Ranger once told me he knew a thousand ways to kill a person. I told him I only knew 5, but I knew them really well. He looked at me and said: “You know. I really believe you.”

  35. 46

    Erik spews:

    most hilarious news of the day is HL being banned from SP. ROFLMAO, LUCY, so was diggindude.

    That’s a pretty big accusation against SP. Why would you think this? Do you anything to back it up?

  36. 49

    headless lucy spews:

    Righton: If you’ll admit that you are chickenshit and can’t really hang , I’ll back off. Otherwise, if you call me ‘tard to my face you’ll face the same dillemma as that other wus. Fair enough?

  37. 50

    All tools here, and yet thereare still screws loose spews:

    Brainless @ 48

    Are you 12? Grow up, progress at least to high school level no jr. high here please.

  38. 51

    All tools here, and yet thereare still screws loose spews:

    Lucy I’d say it to your face in a heart beat, but forunately for your ego I probably don’t regular at your hot spots. Angry bull-dike bars aren’t my thing.

  39. 52

    headless lucy spews:

    Well guys, I’ll allow you to back off with a shred of dignity, as I envision your fat ,weak, blogging assholes puckering with fright at the prospect of something real.

  40. 53

    NKM spews:

    Lucy, you are not scary just a irrational freak. The rest of you? All the libs are just funny. thanks for the laugh.

  41. 54

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Stefan banned dickless lucy because she was posting from a School District IP during working hours.
    The idea of government workers posting on government time on a government computer using a government internet connection in a government office in a government building was probably too much for Stefan.

    Dickless Lucy has contact with our children…even though her job is cleaning urinals.

    Lucy–Did you know their is a $25 fine for eating those URINAL BISCUITS??

  42. 55

    Clearly smarter than you spews:

    Stank@29

    You miss the point completely. What I said is neither is worthy of being denounced but it is hypocritical to denounce one and not the other. So if you feel McKenna should be held to account, which I don’t, then you must feel that Sims too should be held to account, again I don’t. You are the hypocrit my friend.

  43. 56

    Danw spews:

    Cynical;
    How would you know why Snarky banned Lucy? Unless as a paid Shill for Biaw, he had to report to you on everything he did.
    does he have to submit a daily report for his money?

    PS Love your site telling Employers how to keep L and I inspectors of the premises. Did you learn this from Rove with the Red Cross at Guantonamo?

  44. 57

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    danwdouchbag–
    Your ramblings are so far off-target it’s pathetic.
    Danw is a government worker blogging on taxpayers time.
    Danw is worried about his useless, pathetic government job because he cannot make it in the real world.
    Danw can suckle…just can’t produce.
    “Mommy…please take care of me!!”–
    Danw needs Gregoire to survive. Pathetic cocksucker!

  45. 58

    headless lucy spews:

    You conservatives are connected w/ EFF which is funded by WAL-Mart. You are powerless clones who attach your miserable selves to monied interests and live on the delusion that you are a part of the “FORCE” and you’re not. They are laughing at you the harder you fight for them. If you want to fight the good fight ,fine, just don’t be a goddamn 2 dollar Republican whore while you do it. Get some real money for it — like Stefan— who was a liberal blogger in San Francisco up until a few years ago. He’s probably gay. But I really don’t care about that.

  46. 59

    Danw spews:

    Cynical;
    Who haven’t you accused of being a government worker on these Blogs? If you were right half the time, I’d have to agree with you that we have too many “guvment” workers.

  47. 60

    All tools here, and yet thereare still screws loose spews:

    fact-less lucy @ 58

    There you go again jumping to confusions, is there ever a time when something intelligent comes out of your mouth? or is it always random bullshit you can’t back up? You are the lowest of low, truth doesn’t matter to you at all. Let me guess you own 25 cats, think that wal-mart and the NRA are out to steal your identity, and aliens are trying steal your reproductive organs.

  48. 61

    headless lucy spews:

    As soon as we get these Rep. pit-bulls trained, we’ll have a force worth reckoning with. The challenge is getting them to use their brains. They’re obviously bored w/ the REP. sites or they wouldn’t be here.

  49. 62

    All tools here, and yet thereare still screws loose spews:

    delusional lucy @ 61

    Don’t flatter yourself, every so often everyone get’s caught kicking the dog, we just do it alot.

  50. 65

    NKM spews:

    Sorry about the double comment. I be new here. Old and feeble. But I be laughing at Lucy. Full of emotion and fire. NOT thinkin it all the way through.

  51. 66

    Patrick spews:

    Reply to 1

    Let’s straighten out some facts about that missed appeal deadline.

    Gregoire didn’t personally handle the case. Her primary job was supervising an office of nearly 500 attorneys that handles thousands of legal matters annually. She personally worked on only a handful of major cases, for example, she argued at least three cases in the U.S. Supreme Court, and she led the negotiations in the tobacco litigation. She could not, and did not, keep track of every case in the office or personally supervise the attorneys.

    There were at least two levels of management between her and the attorney who did handle the case. It was, first and foremost, the attorney’s responsibility to file the appeal. It was the immediate supervisor’s responsibility to make sure what needed to be done, got done, but one must keep in mind that assistant AG’s operate with considerable autonomy and the supervisors have their own caseloads.

    Although the attorney missed the appeal deadline, it does not necessarily follow that her mistake cost the taxpayers $16 million, or even 1 cent. This was the OK Boys Ranch case. If you’re not familiar with this case, DSHS was sued for negligently supervising a state-licensed group home where staff molested the boys. The jury found that DSHS’s negligence was egregious, and awarded three victims a total of $16.9 million. The facts of the case are that DSHS knew this was going on but did nothing to stop it for two years. The jury was in a punitive mood. The state intended to appeal the verdict as excessive, but did not intend to appeal the basic finding of liability, and did not have grounds to. If the appeal had been filed on time, the state would have had a chance to ask a higher court to reduce the amount, but there is no guarantee the appellate courts would have done some. It is certain that a substantial judgment still would have been imposed on the state. The appellate courts might not have reduced the verdict at all, given DSHS’s conduct, and the nature of the harm to the victims. This lawsuit was analogous to the lawsuits against various archdioceses in the priest molestation cases, where the Church (which was in a position similar to DSHS’s) paid numerous multi-million-dollar judgments and settlements.

    There is somewhat better grounds to criticize Gregoire’s handling of the problem after the story broke. She waited too long to say, “I’m the person in charge, and the buck stops with me.” And some people feel she should have gone to court to defend her firing of the attorney, instead of settling with the attorney out of court. Her handling of the situation wasn’t stellar, but it wasn’t rotten either. She did take personal responsibility in the end, even though she wasn’t personally involved in the mistake. She did impose disciplinary action on the employees responsible for the mistake. And, fair-minded people will balance this mistake against the big settlements she achieved in the tobacco and Hanford cases, which were highly advantageous to the people of our state, and the innumerable cases the attorneys in her office did handle correctly and with good results for the citizens/taxpayers of our state.

    Fair-minded people will also keep in mind that several of our state’s biggest corporate law firms have been sued for mistakes they shouldn’t have made — showing that no one, even our state’s most talented and prominent private sector attorneys — is perfect.

  52. 68

    Patrick spews:

    Reply to 10

    As attorney general, McKenna has a duty to defend the Secretary of State’s certification of the election.

  53. 69

    marks spews:

    headless @45

    An army Ranger once told me he knew a thousand ways to kill a person. I told him I only knew 5, but I knew them really well. He looked at me and said: “You know. I really believe you.”

    You sure that wasn’t a former Texas baseball Ranger? Just seems more likely…

  54. 70

    headless lucy spews:

    Thanks Patrick for your hard work and great factual posts. But I’ve been teaching for many years and it’s mostly Pearls before Swine. Just have some fun.

  55. 71

    Patrick spews:

    Addendum to reply to 10

    Let me clarify something. The AG has a “public interest section” that represents the public’s interest in rate-making cases before the Utilities and Transportation Commission. For example, when Verizon recently requested a $225 million rate increase from its customers, the AG’s Public Counsel spoke for the subscribers who would pay the higher rates and negotiated a settlement with Verizon for a much lower increase.

    But apart from that narrowly focused example, and a few others like it, the AG’s office does not represent the general public. In fact, in many of the cases it handles, a member of the public is the opposing party — for example, when a citizen sues DOT for injuries sustained in a car accident alleging negligent highway design. In these cases, the AG defends DOT against the citizen’s claim.

    By law, the AG’s clients are elected officials and state agencies. In this case, the AG represents Sam Reed, who is being sued in his official capacity as the state’s chief elections officer.

    The AG does not, and is not authorized to, represent any individual voter or group of voters. One also would run into problems defining the “public” or the “public interest” given that some citizens want Rossi to win this lawsuit while others want Gregoire to win.

  56. 72

    Patrick spews:

    Hippo @ 20

    The difference is that Sims isn’t an attorney representing one of the parties in the suit, Dolt!

  57. 73

    Patrick spews:

    pbj @ 30

    It’s Earle’s job because he’s the D.A., Dolt! And since the jury has returned at least one guilty verdict, we’re entitled to conclude that a crime was committed. What would you say of a D.A. who didn’t investigate or prosecute a crime, but just looked the other way? If it was a Democrat who committed the crime, you would be calling Earle a partisan hack …

  58. 74

    All tools here, and yet thereare still screws loose spews:

    headless lucy @ 70

    Dear God they will give anyone a teaching license.

  59. 75

    NKM spews:

    As attorney general, McKenna has a duty to defend the Secretary of State’s certification of the election.

    No,not in this circumstance. There is a right spelled out in our constitution that a challenge is available, and that anyone can exercise that right. In fact it the certification that is being challenged. Not a state law and the STATE isn’t being challenged at all.

    If the process is flawed we all lose. If the situation were reversed the Deamoncrats would be fighting just as hard.

    Personally I think the arguement of proportionality is itself improper. I believe that the Dems have just proven the Reps case, by finding more felons who voted. The simple fact that there were more illegal votes cast than the margin of 129 votes, is enough to set aside the election in favor of a revote.

    A revote only after KC fixes its elections office.

  60. 76

    Patrick spews:

    Reply to 32

    Wrong. “Good government and fair elections” is not the attorney general’s responsibility. Good government is the responsibility of the agency heads (and also of the Governor and Legislature). Fair elections is the responsibility of county auditors (primarily) and secretary of state (in a broad oversight role with no direct supervisory authority over county auditors). The attorney general’s responsibility is to provide legal advice on specific legal issues or matters to agency heads, the governor and legislature, and to represent them in legal proceedings.

  61. 77

    Patrick spews:

    By the way, in case of bad government, the AG may be in the awkward position of having to defend the “bad” governing because his job is to defend the official or agency regardless of whether what they did was good or bad.

  62. 78

    Patrick spews:

    Question for headless lucy @ 35

    You didn’t post “Stefan is utter trash” did you? (I certainly hope so.)

  63. 80

    Patrick spews:

    Reply to 36

    I wouldn’t call making baseless accusations of fraud, cherry picking illegal votes, or manipulating statistics to get the result you want, doing “what’s right.”

  64. 81

    Patrick spews:

    Comment @ 43

    You tell ‘em, cowboy. You and your wingo ilk are the experts on milking victimhood for all it’s worth. Give that cow another pull!

  65. 82

    Blasater spews:

    Lets recap:

    Dear Libs: The GOP is arguing irregularity not fraud, FOR A SET ASIDE. Hence A RE-VOTE. What is soooo frightening about that? That is democracy PLUS. If Commrade Gregoire is the better man, she will win next time!

  66. 83

    Patrick spews:

    Hey Cynical you haven’t accused me of blogging on government time for three days now. How come I get left out?

  67. 84

    Patrick spews:

    Comment on 60

    What’s wrong with owning 25 cats? It’s a free country, lucy can have cats if she wants to. Are you an animal hater too? I’ll bet you pulled wings off butterflies when you were a rotten kid. You seem like the type who would torture insects.

  68. 86

    Patrick spews:

    Reply to 70

    Don’t take any shit off these creeps. You keep dishing it right back, Hon! They’ve got it coming.

  69. 87

    Patrick spews:

    marks @ 79

    Right now I’m Patrick, but pretty soon he’ll disappear and I’ll be someone else. As I recall, Gregoire won all of her cases in the SCOTUS, but I could be wrong.

  70. 89

    pbj spews:

    Patrick@66,

    Let’s see:

    “Gregoire didn’t personally handle the case. Her primary job was supervising an office of nearly 500 attorneys that handles thousands of legal matters annually. She personally worked on only a handful of major cases, for example, she argued at least three cases in the U.S. Supreme Court, and she led the negotiations in the tobacco litigation. She could not, and did not, keep track of every case in the office or personally supervise the attorneys.”

    If she could not supervise her staff well enough to ensure that the state wouldn’t forget to file by the deadline, then she was damn incompetent. When wrongdoing happened an Enron, did you say “Oh Keny Lay supervises thousands of people and cannot be responsible for eahc and every one”?

    What a hypocrit. She is the one in charge of the AG’s office, the buskc stopped with her. And you have the nerve to accuse George Bush of being responsible for the high gasoline prices while letting Gregoire off the hook for an office that SHE RAN?

    I guess that George Bush is not responsible for Abu Grahib then by your reasoning. You want it both ways. When it is a Democrat running things the excuse is “it happnes everywhere else too. She wasn’t responsible.”

    I call bullshit!

    “There were at least two levels of management between her and the attorney who did handle the case. It was, first and foremost, the attorney’s responsibility to file the appeal. It was the immediate supervisor’s responsibility to make sure what needed to be done, got done, but one must keep in mind that assistant AG’s operate with considerable autonomy and the supervisors have their own caseloads.”

    There is a whole lot more middle management between Runsfeld and his troops and Buhs and his people. So are you going to cut them slack like you do Gregoire? Didn’t think so.

    I call bullshit!

    “Although the attorney missed the appeal deadline, it does not necessarily follow that her mistake cost the taxpayers $16 million, or even 1 cent. This was the OK Boys Ranch case. If you’re not familiar with this case, DSHS was sued for negligently supervising a state-licensed group home where staff molested the boys. The jury found that DSHS’s negligence was egregious, and awarded three victims a total of $16.9 million. The facts of the case are that DSHS knew this was going on but did nothing to stop it for two years. The jury was in a punitive mood. The state intended to appeal the verdict as excessive, but did not intend to appeal the basic finding of liability, and did not have grounds to. If the appeal had been filed on time, the state would have had a chance to ask a higher court to reduce the amount, but there is no guarantee the appellate courts would have done some. It is certain that a substantial judgment still would have been imposed on the state. The appellate courts might not have reduced the verdict at all, given DSHS’s conduct, and the nature of the harm to the victims. This lawsuit was analogous to the lawsuits against various archdioceses in the priest molestation cases, where the Church (which was in a position similar to DSHS’s) paid numerous multi-million-dollar judgments and settlements.”

    Most awards are reduced on appeal. And we will never know because they never even tried. Is that how you would want our national defense to work “we knew we would lose so we never bothered”.

    And why was DSHS so negligent under Gary Locke? I suppose HE wasn’t responsible either. Yet George Bush is responsible for gas prices?

    I call bullshit!

    “There is somewhat better grounds to criticize Gregoire’s handling of the problem after the story broke. She waited too long to say, “I’m the person in charge, and the buck stops with me.” And some people feel she should have gone to court to defend her firing of the attorney, instead of settling with the attorney out of court. Her handling of the situation wasn’t stellar, but it wasn’t rotten either. She did take personal responsibility in the end, even though she wasn’t personally involved in the mistake. She did impose disciplinary action on the employees responsible for the mistake. And, fair-minded people will balance this mistake against the big settlements she achieved in the tobacco and Hanford cases, which were highly advantageous to the people of our state, and the innumerable cases the attorneys in her office did handle correctly and with good results for the citizens/taxpayers of our state.”

    She tried to blame an underling and lost in court to the tuen of $250,000 she lost the state.

    I like how you try to reason away the incompetences. “She got us the tobacco money, so we will excuse all the rest”. That is like Spokane excusing Jim West for child molestation because he got them out of the River Park Square debacle.

    So, since George Bush has kept any more planes from crashing into skyscrapers, I guess you are going to be a “fair and balanced” person and give him the credit he deserves??

    Not likely.

    See this is the problem with you Democrats, you will not even admit when your own people do sleazy or incompetent shit. Have you seen any Republican defending Jim West? I doubt it. He needs to go. I have never heard a Democrat say that about another Democrat no matter how sleazy they were. That is the difference between us I guess.

  71. 91

    pbj spews:

    Patrick@66,

    Let�s straighten out some facts about that missed appeal deadline.

    Gregoire didn�t personally handle the case. Her primary job was supervising an office of nearly 500 attorneys that handles thousands of legal matters annually. She personally worked on only a handful of major cases, for example, she argued at least three cases in the U.S. Supreme Court, and she led the negotiations in the tobacco litigation. She could not, and did not, keep track of every case in the office or personally supervise the attorneys.

    There were at least two levels of management between her and the attorney who did handle the case. It was, first and foremost, the attorney�s responsibility to file the appeal. It was the immediate supervisor�s responsibility to make sure what needed to be done, got done, but one must keep in mind that assistant AG�s operate with considerable autonomy and the supervisors have their own caseloads.

    Really? She ran the office and she was responsible for everyone below her. Funny I didn’t see you use that same logic about Abu Grahib. George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld have a hell of a lot more middle management layers below them than does the AG of Washington State. Furthermoe, Geroge Bush doesn’t runt he oil companies yet you accuse him of being the reson gas prices are so high.

    I call bullshit!

    Although the attorney missed the appeal deadline, it does not necessarily follow that her mistake cost the taxpayers $16 million, or even 1 cent.

    It certainly does follow. Most awards are greeatly reduced upon appeal. But we will never know if it would have been reduced because they didn’t even try now did they? Imagine if we ran our national defense like that. “We never tried to fight back. It is ok though. That is what the French do.”

    And why was the DSHS so incompetent under Gary Locke’s administration? Was that the fault of Republicans too?

    I call bullshit!

    There is somewhat better grounds to criticize Gregoire�s handling of the problem after the story broke. She waited too long to say, �I�m the person in charge, and the buck stops with me.� And some people feel she should have gone to court to defend her firing of the attorney, instead of settling with the attorney out of court. Her handling of the situation wasn�t stellar, but it wasn�t rotten either. She did take personal responsibility in the end, even though she wasn�t personally involved in the mistake. She did impose disciplinary action on the employees responsible for the mistake. And, fair-minded people will balance this mistake against the big settlements she achieved in the tobacco and Hanford cases, which were highly advantageous to the people of our state, and the innumerable cases the attorneys in her office did handle correctly and with good results for the citizens/taxpayers of our state.

    Again, you overlook the fact that she tried to assign blame to an underling and when she lost in court it cost the state another $250,000.

    So the good things a person does offsets their bad things? So the fact that Jim West got Spokane out of the River Park Square debacle offsets the fact that he was a pedophile? And because no more planes have been crashed into any buildings since 911, George Bush gets a pass as well?

    Fair-minded people will also keep in mind that several of our state�s biggest corporate law firms have been sued for mistakes they shouldn�t have made � showing that no one, even our state�s most talented and prominent private sector attorneys � is perfect.

    Really? No one is perfect? You don’t seem to take that attitude when it is a Republican. And private sector corporate law firms don’t work for the people of the State of Washington. The AG does.

    But then again applying your logic you should never ever criticize George Bush for having not gotten Bin Laden. After all , after 8 years, Clinton never did.

  72. 92

    pbj spews:

    Patrick@66,

    Let�s straighten out some facts about that missed appeal deadline.

    Gregoire didn�t personally handle the case. Her primary job was supervising an office of nearly 500 attorneys that handles thousands of legal matters annually. She personally worked on only a handful of major cases, for example, she argued at least three cases in the U.S. Supreme Court, and she led the negotiations in the tobacco litigation. She could not, and did not, keep track of every case in the office or personally supervise the attorneys.

    There were at least two levels of management between her and the attorney who did handle the case. It was, first and foremost, the attorney�s responsibility to file the appeal. It was the immediate supervisor�s responsibility to make sure what needed to be done, got done, but one must keep in mind that assistant AG�s operate with considerable autonomy and the supervisors have their own caseloads.

    Really? She ran the office and she was responsible for everyone below her. Funny I didn’t see you use that same logic about Abu Grahib. George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld have a hell of a lot more middle management layers below them than does the AG of Washington State. Furthermoe, Geroge Bush doesn’t runt he oil companies yet you accuse him of being the reson gas prices are so high.

    I call bullshit!

    Although the attorney missed the appeal deadline, it does not necessarily follow that her mistake cost the taxpayers $16 million, or even 1 cent.

    It certainly does follow. Most awards are greeatly reduced upon appeal. But we will never know if it would have been reduced because they didn’t even try now did they? Imagine if we ran our national defense like that. “We never tried to fight back. It is ok though. That is what the French do.”

    And why was the DSHS so incompetent under Gary Locke’s administration? Was that the fault of Republicans too?

    I call bullshit!

  73. 94

    All tools here, and yet thereare still screws loose spews:

    Ass kisser @ 70

    Is this some kind of yin-yang style but kissing?

  74. 101

    Patrick spews:

    You guys already have all the money and political power, do you want a monopoly on hypocrisy too? Can’t we have just a little? Pretty please?

  75. 103

    All tools here, and yet thereare still screws loose spews:

    Oh I forgot tater tots and french fries too.

  76. 104

    Wing-Ding-a-Ling Nut Cake spews:

    Leftists @ all

    Ha! Ha! Ha! We’re gonna win! Ha! Ha! Ha!

    Ha! Ha! Ha! Logan and Sims burnt at the stake! Ha! Ha! Ha!

    Ha! Ha! Ha! The precious will be ours forever! Ha! Ha!

  77. 105

    Patrick spews:

    Reply to 101

    You know, I didn’t think of that. Teresa Kerry DOES own the ketchup factory … we can take away their ketchup!

    Boys, I think we’ve got ‘em by the short hairs …

  78. 106

    Donnageddon spews:

    pbj said @ all over the place

    “I call bullshit!”

    pbj, is that like calling timber when you fell a tree? I appreciate the warning, but I already know 99% of what you post is bullshit.

    Thanks anyway.

  79. 107

    Donnageddon spews:

    pbj said @ all over the place

    “I call bullshit!”

    pbj, is that like calling timber when you fell a tree? I appreciate the warning, but I already know 99% of what you post is bullshit.

    Thanks anyway.

  80. 109

    Patrick spews:

    Listen up, stinkin’ Republicans, you’d better get used to mustard on your Freedom Fries … try French’s, they make a good mustard … hahaha ROFLMAO

  81. 110

    Donnageddon spews:

    Blastoutamyass @ 82 “Dear Libs: The GOP is arguing irregularity not fraud, FOR A SET ASIDE.”

    Hmm, a “set aside” You must be a legal scholar! LOL “set aside”

    Glory be! I have seen the light, the neo-cons want a “do-over!”

    LOL

    I can’t stop laughing….

  82. 111

    Patrick spews:

    I notice they’re ranting about banks an awful lot over at (un)SP. You know … banks know where every penny is … blah blah

    What short memories. Back in the eighties, during the administration of the Reagan godhead, the family-values GOPers running America’s S & Ls mislaid $500,000,000,000.00.

    I’d say that, on the whole, the private banking industry makes King County Elections look good.

  83. 116

    David spews:

    Not to encourage the trend of content-free sniping at one another here, but . . .
    LOL! One point to headless lucy for best insult of the day @ 48.

  84. 119

    David spews:

    pbj @ 89, 91, 92, re: Gregoire and the staff attorney who didn’t file an appeal on time:

    “If she could not supervise her staff well enough to ensure that the state wouldn’t forget to file by the deadline, then she was damn incompetent.”
    That’s like saying Bill Gates is incompetent if one of his employees messes up.

    “When wrongdoing happened an Enron, did you say ‘Oh Keny Lay supervises thousands of people and cannot be responsible for eahc and every one’?”
    No, most people said he knew about the financial schemes that deceived investors and screwed average folks to his personal benefit. I’m not sure he was personally responsible for manipulating the energy market (don’t know the facts well enough myself); if not, then blame the company and the people who did know (or who allowed/encouraged it), not him personally.

    “What a hypocrit. She is the one in charge of the AG’s office, the buskc stopped with her. And you have the nerve to accuse George Bush of being responsible for the high gasoline prices while letting Gregoire off the hook for an office that SHE RAN?”
    (Man, pbj, your spelling is off this evening.) Yes, she was the AG, so the buck stopped with her; ultimately she had to answer for her office’s failure, discipline the people involved, and improve procedures to prevent it from happening again.

    Bush and gas prices . . . yikes. He’s NOT directly responsible, except to the extent that his administration’s policies have exacerbated the situation (Iraq probably plays a role, as does his pro-oil-company energy policy, along with his dismissiveness toward alternative energy until lately). We’re using more oil than ever, and Iraq isn’t producing much, and now we’re competing with China for what’s available.

    “I guess that George Bush is not responsible for Abu Grahib then by your reasoning. . . . There is a whole lot more middle management between Runsfeld and his troops and Buhs and his people. So are you going to cut them slack like you do Gregoire?”
    By my reasoning Bush IS responsible for the Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and Bagram abuses and atrocities, not because he was directly overseeing them but because his administration set out policies that encouraged or at least implicitly approved of torture and torture-like methods on prisoners accused of being terrorists. No Geneva Convention protections for them; no formal charges or judicial appeals; no POW status; no problem with abuse as long as you don’t call it “torture” (who says what “is” is?). No accountability for those policies, either.

    “And why was DSHS so negligent under Gary Locke?”
    Damn good question. Funding issues maybe? I don’t know if those problems have been resolved, or if anyone’s really taken responsibility for fixing DSHS. Hope so.

    “So, since George Bush has kept any more planes from crashing into skyscrapers, I guess you are going to be a ‘fair and balanced’ person and give him the credit he deserves??”
    What plane, exactly, has he kept from crashing into a skyscraper? He certainly didn’t heed the warnings from Richard Clarke and the Clinton administration that might have given him a chance to stop the 9/11 attacks (which, truly, would have been heroic). It appears that Bush wasn’t even able to prevent a Cessna from flying over the Capitol, triggering an emergency evacuation last week. I credit Bush for going after bin Laden at first, but I’m pissed that he lost focus, launched us into Iraq and hasn’t taken obvious steps to protect this country from future terrorist attacks. Show me that he has prevented stuff (like the guy the FBI arrested for trying to sell agents a bomb for al Qaeda) and I’ll give him props for that.

    So, a leader is directly responsible for the things he or she knows about, and the things his or her policies lead to. For things the leader didn’t (even implicitly) allow, encourage or know of, he or she is nominally responsible (as the head of the organization) but not personally to blame. Clear enough?

  85. 120

    David spews:

    Darnit, my comment-that-will-be-comment-number-119 was held. Maybe it has something to do with replying to pbj’s comments that were apparently held too. But I’m only posting mine once, so there.

  86. 121

    headless lucy spews:

    RE comment 15: The reason there are “mob union bosses” is that the AFL under Samuel Gompers was forced to make a deal with the devil in order to have enough punch to deal with the murderous “Pinkerton Detectives” that corporations hired to break strikes. The mob “negotiated” directly with business owners and various corporate shills and we soon had the Wagner Act, which made it legal for unions to organize. Are you beginning to get the picture about real life?

  87. 123

    RossiSux2 spews:

    Reply to 122

    I prefer to think of Stefan as a high-rent mercenary. When fascism goes out of fashion, he’ll probably set up a competing site and show Goldy how to make money from a liberal blog.

  88. 124

    pbj spews:

    Apologies for the double post. I got error msgs when posting. I didn’t realize it was working.

  89. 125

    pbj spews:

    David@199,

    Sorry for the multiple postings, there was a problem with the comments section and it looked like they didn’t get through.

    “That’s like saying Bill Gates is incompetent if one of his employees messes up.”

    Ultimate you do hold Microsoft accountable because there are so many holes in IE. Bill Gates is the CEO of Microsoft. Ultimately he is responsible.

    “Bush and gas prices . . . yikes. He’s NOT directly responsible, except to the extent that his administration’s policies have exacerbated the situation (Iraq probably plays a role, as does his pro-oil-company energy policy, along with his dismissiveness toward alternative energy until lately). “

    That is simply untrue. Bush put $1.2 billion in the budget for hydrogen fuels research. What was Clinton’s budget for Hydrogen fuels cells? And what is the Democrat plan? Have us all walk?

    “By my reasoning Bush IS responsible for the Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and Bagram abuses and atrocities, not because he was directly overseeing them but because his administration set out policies that encouraged or at least implicitly approved of torture and torture-like methods on prisoners accused of being terrorists.”

    Oh I see. So when it is convenient to your argument it is OK to hold the leader accountable for the policies they set in place except when it is the AG of Washington, right? Pehaps the lax policies of personal accountability are what led to the state being charged $10 million unnecessarily? Oh that’s right, it was a Democrat so you can’t hold them accountable.

    ““And why was DSHS so negligent under Gary Locke?”
    Damn good question. Funding issues maybe? I don’t know if those problems have been resolved, or if anyone’s really taken responsibility for fixing DSHS. Hope so.”

    Again, because he is a Democrat, Gary Locke is not accountable for the policies HE put in place, but George Bush is. One is a Democrat, the other a Republican. Gotcha!

    And while we are on Gary Locke, perhaps if he didn’t put in place the policy (by executive order) of granting in-state tuition to the children of ILLEGAL (key word their before you knee jerk and call me a racist) immigrants, we might have more money to school the choldren of naturalized citizens and the children of LEGAL immigrants. But he isn’t accountable for that because he is a Democrat. Gotcha!

    “Show me that he has prevented stuff (like the guy the FBI arrested for trying to sell agents a bomb for al Qaeda) and I’ll give him props for that.”

    Well, have there been any more planes crashing into buildings? I must have missed it.

    As for Richard Clarke, if he was such a grand master terrorist fighter, then how come under Clinton we had the Khobar Towers attacked, the 1993 WTC bombimg, the USS Cole, the Embassies blown up and the Somalia failure? Or didn’t Clinton take Clarke’s advice?

    “So, a leader is directly responsible for the things he or she knows about, and the things his or her policies lead to. For things the leader didn’t (even implicitly) allow, encourage or know of, he or she is nominally responsible (as the head of the organization) but not personally to blame. Clear enough?”

    You forgot to add the last sentence:

    Unless they are a Democrat.

    Yeah, now it is all clear to me.

  90. 126

    pbj spews:

    Lucy@121,

    Gee Lucy, I didn’t realize the Pinkerton detective agency was still in business in 1978.

    According to the report “ORGANIZED CRIME AND THE LABOR UNIONS” prepared for the White House in 1978:


    ” At least four international unions are completely dominated by men who either have strong ties to or are members of the organized crime syndicate. A majority of the locals in most major cities of the United States in the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT), Hotel and Restaurant Employees Union (HRE), Laborers International Union of North America (Laborers), and International Longshoreman’s Association (ILA) unions are completely dominated by organized crime. The officials of these unions are firmly entrenched; there is little hope of removing them by a free election process. Convictions for misconduct have been sparse and when one corrupt official is removed another soon takes his place. The result has been a complete domination of certain industries by hoodlums. Management personnel in the companies who must deal with these hoodlums have despaired of getting help from law enforcement authorities. They pay the price of labor peace so that they may survive. The cost is passed on to the consumer.”

    You can read the rest of it here:

    http://www.americanmafia.com/Crime_And_Labor.html

  91. 127

    pbj spews:

    Patrick@111,

    I notice they’re ranting about banks an awful lot over at (un)SP. You know … banks know where every penny is … blah blah

    What short memories. Back in the eighties, during the administration of the Reagan godhead, the family-values GOPers running America’s S & Ls mislaid $500,000,000,000.00.

    I’d say that, on the whole, the private banking industry makes King County Elections look good.”

    I like how you try to misrepresent history. Which leftist was it that said “Give me the minds of the youth and I can change the owrld?”

    In truth the Saving and Loan Scandal involved the infamous “keating Five”. Remember them Patrick? FOUR of them were Democrats.

    In 1989, the Lincoln Savings and Loan Association in California collapsed. It was estimated that a government bail-out of Lincoln would cost over two billion dollars. Charles Keating, the Chairman of Lincoln’s parent company, was implicated by the press by Common Cause for being personally responsible for this, the nation’s largest thrift failure.

    When the House Banking Committee heard testimony on the Lincoln collapse, Keating suggested that the problem was the fault of the regulators whom he suggested had a vendetta against him and were out to sabotage his business. Edwin J. Gray, the former head of the Federal Home Loan Bank Board, on the other hand, testified that his agency’s auditing was anything but activist. Further, Gray said he had been approached by a number of influential senators to discontinue investigations of the Lincoln S&L. Later, it was revealed that these senators had received substantial campaign contributions–both directly and indirectly–from Keating, totaling over 1.3 million dollars.

    A number of investigations began as to whether these senators had acted improperly and whether Keating had been able to buy influence through his campaign contributions. These included investigations by the State of California, the U.S. Department of Justice, and the Senate Ethics Committee. While the California and the Justice Department investigations concentrated on Keating’s action, the Senate Ethics Committee investigation concentrated on the actions of the five senators implicated: Alan Cranston (D, CA), Dennis DeConcini (D, AZ), John Glenn (D, OH), John McCain (R, AZ), and Donald Riegle (D, MI). These men were dubbed the Keating Five.

    Although the special counsel to the Ethics Committee advised the Senate that Senators Glenn and McCain were not substantially involved, months of testimony revealed that all five senators had acted improperly in varying degrees. All of these senators, however, continued to proclaim that they were not involved in any wrongdoing, and were just following normal campaign funding practices.

    In the end, the Senate Ethics Committee concluded that Senators Cranston, DeConcini, and Riegle had substantially interfered with the federal regulators’ enforcement processes at the request of Charles Keating. In August 1991, the Ethics Committee recommended to the full Senate the censuring of Cranston for reprehensible conduct. The other four senators were noted for questionable conduct. Cranston had already decided not to seek re-election, citing medical problems.

  92. 128

    pbj spews:

    The Keating Five situation illustrates a hypocrisy of the Democrat party. While pronouncing themselves the party of the “worker” they are behind the scenese getting kickbacks from the evil corporations and capitalists. Even Bill Clinton was lobbying India to allow Enron to build their plant in Bhopal before Enron went under.

  93. 129

    David spews:

    Ultimate you do hold Microsoft accountable because there are so many holes in IE. Bill Gates is the CEO of Microsoft. Ultimately he is responsible.

    Yes, ultimately he is responsible, just like Gregoire is ultimately responsible for the missed filing. We agree already on this—I said so about Gregoire at 119. But that doesn’t make either of them (your word) “incompetent.” I’m not absolving her on account of her being a Democrat; you’re unfairly attacking her personally on account of her being a Democrat.

    Re: Bush and gas prices: “Bush put $1.2 billion in the budget for hydrogen fuels research. What was Clinton’s budget for Hydrogen fuels cells? And what is the Democrat plan? Have us all walk?

    Yeah, Bush recently got excited about hydrogen as the fuel of the future, and that’s great—I applaud him for it. But that’s decades off. In the meantime, he and Cheney have been dismissive of conservation and opposed to increased fuel economy (CAFE) standards; his energy policies have been very good to oil companies, and not focused on near-term alternative energies; and our adventure in Iraq has squeezed the oil supply as worldwide demand is increasing. Bush isn’t directly responsible for prices going up—that’s supply and demand—but indirectly he and his administration are contributing to the problem, not solving it.

    Sure, pbj, the Dems’ plan is to have us all walk. And shoot spitballs. Just like the Republican plan is to invade Saudi Arabia and Venezuela so we can get more cheap oil from them. Give me a break from the over-the-top rhetoric.

    “So when it is convenient to your argument it is OK to hold the leader accountable for the policies they set in place except when it is the AG of Washington, right? Pehaps the lax policies of personal accountability are what led to the [failure to appeal]?”

    Show me the memo from Gregoire encouraging lax personal accountability in the AG’s office; then I’ll call her more directly responsible.

    Re: DSHS negligence: “Again, because he is a Democrat, Gary Locke is not accountable for the policies HE put in place, but George Bush is.

    That’s not what I said at all; it doesn’t follow from anything I wrote. You are getting so blinded by your eagerness to pigeonhole me that you’re convincing yourself of things that aren’t there. What policies, exactly, did Gary Locke put in place that encouraged negligence at DSHS? If you can’t come up with something concrete, you should retract your comment.

    “So, a leader is directly responsible for the things he or she knows about, and the things his or her policies lead to. For things the leader didn’t (even implicitly) allow, encourage or know of, he or she is nominally responsible (as the head of the organization) but not personally to blame. Clear enough?”

  94. 130

    David spews:

    Re: GWB preventing planes from crashing into buildings: “Well, have there been any more planes crashing into buildings? I must have missed it.”

    Aha! By your logic, I can claim I’ve prevented the sun from exploding this year, because it hasn’t happened. Really. What plane, exactly, has he kept from crashing into a skyscraper? It’s been almost four years; could he even stop a Cessna from flying over (and potentially into) the U.S. Capitol?

    I stand by what I said the other day: “I credit Bush for going after bin Laden at first, but I’m pissed that he lost focus, launched us into Iraq and hasn’t taken obvious steps to protect this country from future terrorist attacks.” Do you think he’s done enough to protect us from foreseeable future threats?

    “As for Richard Clarke, if he was such a grand master terrorist fighter, . . . didn’t Clinton take Clarke’s advice?”

    No, he didn’t take Clarke’s advice; not seriously enough, not at first. Clinton was slow to realize the danger of al Qaeda; but by the time he left office, Clinton and Clarke understood the threat from al Qaeda—and they tried to pass that on to the Bush administration. Too bad that the Bush White House, out of pure partisan spite, decided to ignore the warnings they were given. It’s not just too bad; it’s tragic. Maybe Bush could have stopped 9/11 before it happened; that would have made him a true hero. Alas, it was not to be.

  95. 131

    pbj spews:

    “Yes, ultimately he is responsible, just like Gregoire is ultimately responsible for the missed filing. We agree already on this—I said so about Gregoire at 119. But that doesn’t make either of them (your word) “incompetent.” I’m not absolving her on account of her being a Democrat; you’re unfairly attacking her personally on account of her being a Democrat.”

    No, I am attacking her for being incompetent in her running of the AG’s office. It has nothing to do with her being a Democrat. im West is a slimeball. Nothing he does good will erase what he did to those boys. Nothing. Mr Slimeball Republican, meet Mrs Incompetent Democrat.

    In contrast never have I ever heard you say nary a slight for any Democrat in existence. The sun just shines out all of their rear ends huh?

    “Sure, pbj, the Dems’ plan is to have us all walk. And shoot spitballs. Just like the Republican plan is to invade Saudi Arabia and Venezuela so we can get more cheap oil from them. Give me a break from the over-the-top rhetoric.”

    The please tell me what their plan is. What about a long term strategy?? Where is it and who is proposing it, what is the plan?

    “Show me the memo from Gregoire encouraging lax personal accountability in the AG’s office; then I’ll call her more directly responsible.”

    Well is she is asleep at the wheel, she doesn’t have to be encouraging lax accountability now does she? She lead by example on that one.

    “That’s not what I said at all; it doesn’t follow from anything I wrote. You are getting so blinded by your eagerness to pigeonhole me that you’re convincing yourself of things that aren’t there. What policies, exactly, did Gary Locke put in place that encouraged negligence at DSHS? If you can’t come up with something concrete, you should retract your comment.”

    What policies is Gregoire putting in place to stop the problems at DSHS. IF she IS putting in place policies, then those are the very ons that Gary Locke should have put in place. If she is not, then she is ignoring the problem just as Gary Locke did. So which is it?

    “So, a leader is directly responsible for the things he or she knows about, and the things his or her policies lead to. For things the leader didn’t (even implicitly) allow, encourage or know of, he or she is nominally responsible (as the head of the organization) but not personally to blame. Clear enough?”

    … unless they are a Democrat.

    Clear as a bell David.

  96. 132

    Sandals spews:

    This is depressing.

    PBJ…

    Noone expects perfection, but it is expected that every reasonable effort be made. I’m no fan of Gregoire, especially, given her offices stance on open government policies. But if all you can show against Gregoire in her time as Attorney General is that an attorney filed a paper late in a case of dubious moral value, well, damn. So what?

    If Gregoire were personally caught stuffing the ballot boxes in King County along with Robo Hitler and Osama bin Laden were helping her do it, it would still be the Attorney General’s job to represent her as effectively as possible. Not doing so for partisan reasons would be a deliberate breach of the ethics and responsibilities of the office.

    As a comparison, an equivalent scenario for Gregoire would be if Gregoire wrote memoes and personally intervened to make sure the settlement gave out as much state money as possible simply because the affected were strong Democratic party supporters – even to the extent of explicitly supporting the arguments of the other side.

  97. 133

    spews:

    …Regardless of how much McKenna owes his victory to the BIAW and its vicious, partisan hackery, as our state’s elected Attorney General, he steps far outside accepted notions of propriety in lauding and encouraging their role in suing his client.

    Try none. He earned it by hard work, a good team, and by being a patriot.

    God Bless RMK, our Kennedy!

    RMK for Governor 2005 2008!

  98. 134

    Right Wing and Proud spews:

    We believe the strength of our nation lies with the individual and that each person’s dignity, freedom, ability and responsibility must be honored.

    We believe in equal rights, equal justice, and equal opportunity for all, regardless of race, creed, sex, age or disability.

    We believe free enterprise and encouraging individual initiative have brought this nation opportunity, economic growth and prosperity.

    We believe government must practice fiscal responsibility and allow individuals to keep more of the money they earn.

    We believe the most effective, responsible and responsive government is the government closest to the people.

    We believe Americans value and should preserve our national strength and pride while working to extend peace, freedom and human rights throughout the world.

    We believe the Republican Party is the best vehicle for translating these ideals into positive and successful principles of government.

    We believe the proper role of government is to provide for the people only those critical functions that cannot be performed by individuals or private organizations and that the best government is that which governs least.

    We believe Americans must retain the principles that have made us strong while developing new and innovative ideas to meet the challenges of changing times.

    Consider where we stand. And if you agree, join us as we work toward a better tomorrow for all the people of Washington.