A little more perspective on last Tuesday’s election

As election workers tally the last of the late absentees, the Republicans’ failure in last Tuesday’s election has become more and more pronounced.

The anti-roads Initiative 912 — considered a sure thing back when the state GOP officially endorsed it — is now losing by over 9 points… a stunning reversal of fortune. Of course, the sore losers on the right initially tried to dismiss this as yet another example of socialist Seattle forcing its will on the rest of the state — a silly excuse considering we cast votes by the person, not the square mile — but when all the ballots are counted, I-912 will fail in 10 to 12 counties.

So here’s some perspective: if the GOP had succeeded in randomly disenfranchising 9 out of 10 King County voters… I-912 still would have failed statewide.

Meanwhile, back in King County, Executive Ron Sims continues to stretch his lead over mechanic David Irons. A few days back, our friend Stefan pointed towards Sims’ meager 13 point margin as a hopeful trend, but I wonder how buoyed he feels now that it has grown to nearly 16 points, and Irons’ has dropped below the magic 40 percent mark?

You want perspective? At 39.9 percent of the vote, Irons’ — who had about $800,000 of campaign and independent expenditures on his behalf — polled only 3 points better than HA favorite son Richard Pope did in his last countywide race, spending nary a dime. (Say what you want, but on a cost-per-vote ratio, Richard kicks ass.)

Just a little perspective.

UPDATE:
To be fair to David Irons, as Roger Rabbit astutely points out in the comment thread, he’s apparently slightly more popular than cigarette smoke.

King County vote totals:
David Irons - 194,804
No on I-901 - 172,844

Way to go, Dave.

Comments

  1. 2

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    It appears Irons got about the same percentage of the electorate as any candidate would get from a bunch of uninformed monkeys randomly pulling levers.

  2. 3

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Hey prr — if you need work, call WSDOT to audition to be a lane stripe, or call Foster Farms and tell them you want to be a chicken then do your buu-uuck-cluck-cluck-cluck-cluck routine over the phone

  3. 6

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    If anyone ever doubted that Stefan is a propagandist, not a journalist, all they have to do is look at what he’s posted on his blog since the Sotelogate story broke — he’s a total fucking apologist for the GOP’s thug-ugly shenanigans.

  4. 7

    Richard Pope spews:

    Wow — maybe Goldy can compare my 2003 percentage to what Bush and Nethercutt got in 2004 in King County?

    Better yet, compare my 2003 percentage in the 9th congressional district precincts to what Chris Vance got in 2000 in King County running against Adam Smith for Congress.

  5. 8

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Why the Marginal Media gives that guy the time of day is beyond me. He’s merely another shrill shill in the cacophony of the political blogosphere.

  6. 9

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Irons is slightly more popular with King County voters than cigarette smoke.

    David Irons Jr. – 194804 (39.89%)
    Cigarette Smoke – 172844 (34.67%)

  7. 10

    LeftTurn spews:

    You know things have turned for the better in our state when the righties are touting a 13 point loss *that’s really 16 points* as a good thing. How pitiful they’ve become.

  8. 12

    Ludicrus Maximus spews:

    According to the Seattle Times, some of the screw-ups in the GOP voter challenges happened because the challenged voters had addresses that were similar to, or the same as, the addresses of storage facilities or private mailbox facilities. There was just one problem — the streer addresses looked the same, but they were actually in different cities or different parts of Seattle.

    Seeking to excuse the GOP’s screw-up, Chris Vance said that “while the GOP had prepared its list by comparing the street addresses of voters with those of private mailbox businesses and storage complexes, its database expert had not compared cities or geographic designations.”

    Stefan has been remarkably quiet about this the last few days. Do you suppose he’s the GOP’s “database expert” referred to in the article?

  9. 13

    proud leftist spews:

    I-330’s resounding defeat provides additional evidence of Republican weakness in this state. Tort reform is a pillar of the Rove/DeLay strategy to create a one-party nation. Bush has long been an enthusiastic supporter of tort reform. The goal is to defund trial lawyers, who give primarily to Democrats. I-330 failed in counties like Ferry, Wahkiakum, and Whatcom, and would have failed even if not a single vote in King County was cast. I-330’s defeat is a most admirable one-finger salute to those who would fuck with the right to trial by jury.

  10. 14

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Interestingly, Tim Eyman’s performance audits initiative (I-900) failed in 16 counties, nearly all of which are rural Republican counties.

  11. 15

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Irons can take comfort in knowing he could win a head-to-head race against falling bridges, too.

    David Irons Jr. – 194804 (39.89%)
    Falling Bridges – 164490 (33.14%)

  12. 16

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    So – there you have it – Irons is more popular than cigarette smoke or falling bridges. Congratulations, Mr. Irons!

  13. 17

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @12

    “database expert had not compared cities or geographic designations”

    Is this what Chris Rants calls an “expert?” Remember his election contest “expert?” Is this the state GOP’s concept of affirmative action?

  14. 18

    Annoy a Liberal: Work hard and be happy spews:

    aside from the fact that you are full of it….get your math straight. 9 out of 10…give me a break

  15. 19

    For the Clueless spews:

    @ 6

    I doubt that even Sharkansky is stupid enough to claim he’s anything other than a right-wing shill much less a journalist.

    Then again, yes, he just might be that stupid!

  16. 20

    dj spews:

    Annoy a liberal @ 18

    I just checked Goldy’s math, and he is correct. In fact, using the numbers currently posted on the SOS web site, you could remove 10 out of 11 of the KC ballots (randomly) and I-912 would still lose by a hair.

    Rather than spew your uninformed opinion, why the hell don’t you actually do the math? Oh…that’s right, facts don’t count for much with wingnuts!

  17. 22

    Libertarian spews:

    OK, I-912 failed. Can we have some money to pay for the Narrows Bridge project? After all, Pierce County voted the way you guys did.

  18. 23

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    I agree with you CLOWNS who point out that the State Republican Party lacks leadership.
    I also believe that I-912 was defeated out of desperation by folks tired of mortal gridlock. An exit poll showed 55-60% did NOT have confidence the 9-1/2 cents GasTax would be will spent….but folks went along out of sheer desperation.
    Regarding Ron Sims….his success shows just how fucked up Seattle is. End of comment.
    Christine Gregoire still has very low poll numbers. She will get a spike soon because of misguided optimism that the GasTax will yield some short-term relief…..which it won’t.
    By November, 2008…Gregoire’s numbers will be right about where they are now. Folks will realize they will be hit again and again and again for GasTax increases…..that they will not get what the anti-912 Proponents, WSDOT & Gregoire promised. Gregoire will take a hard-line against further GasTax increases until right after the November, 2008 election….when she will immediately sign an increase whether she wins or loses.
    I know it is hard for you LEFTIST PINHEADED CLOWNS to clear your muddled heads and think a cogent thought about the future. Do you really think this is the last major GasTax increase???

  19. 24

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    One other guarantee….
    Virtually all of those who voted YES on I-912 will not vote for Gregoire in 2008.
    However, many of those who voted NO are Republicans who will not vote for Gregoire either.
    I think you LEFTIST PINHEADS will need to register thousands of more mailbox Little People to get Gregoire re-elected!

  20. 25

    GBS spews:

    Puddy – welcher – butt

    When you gonna pay up?

    Ms Chickenhawk, scram!! You FUCKING CLOWN.

    Hey, will you troll fucks still post here after the November elections next year when your asses are kicked out of office?

    No? Good!

  21. 26

    wes.in.wa spews:

    I’m expecting to see Goldy’s recommendation prominently displayed in Richard Pope’s next campaign: “Richard Kicks Ass! — even liberal blogger David Goldstein agrees”

  22. 27

    GBS spews:

    Ms Chickenhawk,

    I hope you drop dead of a massive heart attack before the next election so you can’t vote republican and side with Al Qaeda’s goal of destroying democracy in America.

    You fuck!

  23. 28

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    DAY 8—-IMPROVED TRAFFIC DUE TO GASTAX INCREASE VIGIL
    I am happy to report that since the GasTax proponents got their way defeating I-912 last week that traffic this past weekend actually got worse!!!! I was in Seattle Sunday & Monday and it was gawdawful!!! I saw lots of drivers BY THEMSELVES in their politically correct little cars with their Save the Earth bumperstickers sitting in mortal gridlock on I-5 and the AWV.
    I would expect the politically correct CLOWNS to set a much better example than that!!
    Some of them had pro-Mass Transit and “I Love Women with Hairy Underarms” bumperstickers too!!
    I love seeing the preachers of political correctness hypocritically contributing to the PROBLEM not the SOLUTION!

  24. 29

    dj spews:

    Cynical @ 23

    Thanks for your predictions. Given your track record of political predictions ’round here, we probably know what will NOT happen :-)

    Seriously, though:

    “Do you really think this is the last major GasTax increase???”

    No…I fully expect the State to eventually raise the gas tax again. So long as the tax is a fixed-amount per gallon tax, rather than a sales tax (percentage of sale price), the State will have to raise the gas tax every few years to compensate for inflation.

    My hope is that the legislature eventually has the balls to pass legislation tying the gas excise tax to inflation, with automatic increases or decreases every two years or so. That way, neither the Ds or the Rs have to revisit the issue every couple of years, and our transportation infrastructure doesn’t suffer from fools playing petty politics (i.e. sore losers trying to undermine Gregoire).

  25. 30

    Annoy a Liberal: Work hard and be happy spews:

    dj: 9 of of 10 is 90%…if the GOP could challenge 90% of the voters in KC, the KCE office would have even more problems then they currently have. I find it dishonest what Goldy/you are doing. What does the percentages have to do with “disenfranchising”, etc. This is just plain hack, nothing more. If he would have said:
    The result was so close that even just 10% of KC (a predominantely Democrat and anti GOP country) voters alone would have caused 912 to fail…ok, but putting the 90% disenfranchising is plain wrong.

    But you wouldn’t see it that way.

  26. 31

    Donnageddon spews:

    @ 22 “Can we have some money to pay for the Narrows Bridge project?”

    And you call yourself a “libertarian”?

  27. 32

    Libertarian spews:

    Donnageddon @ 31:

    Yep, I’m a Libertarian who believes he should get somthing back when a gas tax increase is shoved down his throat. It’s bad enough that my money is seized for other projects when I have a major project just 2 miles from my house that I get to pay for.

    Don’t you guys get it? A lot of us in Pierce County are hopping mad about the toll on the Narrows Bridge, and we don’t think other projects should NOT have a toll when we do have a toll.

  28. 33

    Sinner spews:

    Is Cynical’s “Road Watch” or whatever it is the stupidest thing you’ve ever seen? It would be like voting to build a new viaduct and then the day after asking “where is it?” It’s the same cognitive level a three-year-old has.

  29. 34

    RonK, Seattle spews:

    Looking at the estimated votes remaining to be counted by County, it looks like 912 could conceivably fail by 10 points, 45-55.

    Do we get some kind of a bonus for that? Another Republican contribution to the Cantwell campaign?

  30. 35

    Commander Ogg spews:

    In a recent vote by the Congress critters yesterday, the Majority Republicans told Mr. President where to go and what to do about the Mess-o-potania.

    My wife reminded me of an extremely funny movie directed by Mel Brooks in the 1970’s called Blazing Saddles. Below is a clip from the Movie:

    The honorable William J Le Petomane (Governor), upon hearing about the attack on the Town of Rock Ridge :

    http://www.ladyofthecake.com/m.....s/holy.wav

    Or maybe the Republicans up for reelection in 2006?

  31. 36

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    hope you drop dead of a massive heart attack before the next election so you can’t vote republican and side with Al Qaeda’s goal of destroying democracy in America.

    You fuck! -Comment by GBS— 11/16/05 @ 12:08 pm

    Ah, yes… one of the “I don’t hate America, I love America” fringies showing how much she loves her fellow citizens OF America.

    And then they wonder why rational citizens consider them duplicitous hypocrites…

    “We love the soldiers…we just hate the military”
    “We love America…we just hate all it stands for”
    “We love the benefits of American can-do capitalism…we just hate the corporations that make it happen”
    “We love God…we just hate His faithful”
    We love the 1st Amendment… we just hate that the ‘other guy’ has it too”

  32. 37

    windie spews:

    I’ll simplify it for you, ASS;

    “We hate people like you who want to corrupt and destroy the very things America stands for”

  33. 38

    windie spews:

    re me@37

    I can do better;

    Translating ProudASS’s corruptions;

    “We love the soldiers…we just hate the military” becomes “We love the soldiers, but hate it when the military is misused” (whether for political gain or for money, or whatever)

    “We love America…we just hate all it stands for” becomes “We love America, and everything it stands for. We hate people that try to corrupt the purpose and values of the nation for their own selfish gain”

    “We love the benefits of American can-do capitalism…we just hate the corporations that make it happen” is a tricky one, but for me its, “We love the benefits of capitalism and a free market, but we hate the corporations that do everything they can to undermine and corrupt the system for their own game.”

    “We love God…we just hate His faithful” becomes “We love God, but we really really really hate people who would use the name of God for selfish gain or to promote ungodly goals.”

    “We love the 1st Amendment… we just hate that the ‘other guy’ has it too” becomes “We love the 1st amendment, but the other side pretends we hate it. They’ll do anything and say anything to smear us and corrupt the system.”

    We have to remember that everything a moron like ProudASS needs to be put through the bs~distortion filter to get the real meaning.

  34. 39

    Geni spews:

    Hell, I did way better than Irons, dollar-for-dollar – I spent $12K on my campaign, and got 37% of the vote. He paid what, twenty times that to better my percentage by two points?

    Then again, *I* never hit my mother, and I didn’t make anyone in the Video Voter Guide office run out of the room screaming when they asked *me* to remove a lapel pin (mine was an American flag, not a Kiwanis pin like the Mechanic).

  35. 41

    dj spews:

    Annoy a liberal @ 30

    “dj: 9 of of 10 is 90%…if the GOP could challenge 90% of the voters in KC, the KCE office would have even more problems then they currently have. I find it dishonest what Goldy/you are doing.”

    I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Goldy presented a mathematical result. Sure, he put in the form of a GOP dig. But, there is certainly nothing dishonest about it. And, I have no idea why you think what I said is dishonest.

    “What does the percentages have to do with “disenfranchising”, etc. This is just plain hack, nothing more.”

    Well, it seems to me that Goldy was trying to accomplish two goals: (1) it showing how close the initiative was in the state overall, and (2) annoying wingnuts.

    “If he would have said:
    The result was so close that even just 10% of KC (a predominantely Democrat and anti GOP country) voters alone would have caused 912 to fail…ok, but putting the 90% disenfranchising is plain wrong.”

    Ummm…it presented it as a hypothetical scenario, but I can see that he annoyed you by it. Why did you think I was being dishonest—I stated almost the exact same thing you said.

    “But you wouldn’t see it that way.”

    Ummm…it looks like you have been annoyed by a liberal!

  36. 42

    Commander Ogg spews:

    Joke all you want Doc E, but you won’t convince me that R’s are not terrified about the election of ’06.

    In the 5 years sinnce the appointment of Bush, I have never, ever seen such a blanket rejection of his policies by th Repub Congress.

  37. 45

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Cynical-Irrelevant @23

    “the State Republican Party lacks leadership”

    How long did you have to think about it to come up with that conclusion, Mr. C-I?

  38. 46

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I thought Chris Rants would get sacked after the GOP’s recount disaster … but no … then I thought he would get sacked after the Rossi election contest fiasco … but noooo … now he’s involved in criminal activity but won’t get sacked for that, either … the GOPers never fire anybody, as long as they’re willing to do the party’s dirty work.

  39. 49

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    dj @29

    I don’t support a variable tax on gasoline. Funding transportation projects requires a stable funding source. The number of gallons of fuel consumed by motorists is directly related to the amount of traffic, and not subject to fluctuation with pump prices, so a per-gallon tax provides a more dependable revenue stream that is more closely tied to highway construction and maintenance needs than a percentage tax would.

  40. 50

    Donnageddon spews:

    Comment by Roger Rabbit — 11/16/05 @ 2:01 pm

    Not only is “Libertarian” a Free Loader, he sure as hell is no libertarian.

  41. 51

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Reply to 30

    The GOP wouldn’t hesitate to disenfranchise 90% of King County voters if they could figure how to do it.

  42. 52

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @32

    “Don’t you guys get it? A lot of us in Pierce County are hopping mad about the toll on the Narrows Bridge, and we don’t think other projects should NOT have a toll when we do have a toll.”

    What makes you think the replacement 520 bridge or AWV won’t have tolls? The gas tax doesn’t fully fund these projects. Furthermore, Pierce County is not a net exporter of gas taxes, like King County is. Unlike Tacoma drivers, Seattle motorists pay gas taxes to subsidize highways and bridges in the rest of the state. King County exports over $125 million a year of gas taxes; Pierce County exports about $1 million — PC is just shy of being a break-even county.

    Libertarian, get some facts before you blow off at the mouth. You’re just like the eastern Washington antis who howl about getting ripped off when they’re getting huge road subsidies from King County — there’s a gross disconnect between your faux outrage and the facts of the matter.

  43. 53

    Aaron spews:

    Hey Libertarian, if you don’t like paying the toll, you’re at liberty to go around; take 16 east to highway 3, then follow it to 101, then come up I-5. Heck you could even take a short cut on 303. Ain’t personal freedom grand!

  44. 54

    ConservativeFirst spews:

    by Goldy, 11/16/2005, 10:26 AM

    “Just a little perspective.”

    I noticed you left off the percentages and only looked at vote totals. Sims received 55% of the vote in 2005. He received nearly 60% of the vote in 2001. So, Sims is significantly less popular than himself.

    Just a little additional perspective.

  45. 55

    Aaron spews:

    My prediction – 520 will get a toll (again), but AWT will not; too many routes around. Hopefully the tunnel will have some of those nifty “Your tax dollars at work” signs, I always enjoy the anti-government types fuming about those!

  46. 56

    Libertarian spews:

    Yo, all you Neo-socialists pretending to be “progressives:”

    Remove your brains from your anal areas. Fighting against a toll on the Narrows is COMPLETELY Libertarian!

    And Roger, when I’ve brought up the idea of charging a toll for those KC projects, I get all kinds of responses about how impractical it would be and how it wouldn’t work. But if you can get a toll charged on the 520 and AWV projects, I’ll shut up about the Narrows Bridge. Deal?

  47. 57

    Aaron spews:

    How about we meet you halfway; there will be a toll on 520 and the Narrows, but none on the AWT, you don’t shut up, but we ignore you?

  48. 58

    windie spews:

    AWV is really impractical unless you’re willing to get a tranciever put into your car… Too many alternate routes. (people will put up with the money I think, but not with stopping to pay)

    520 would be easy, and I won’t be surprised if they put a toll on that sucker.

  49. 60

    Aaron spews:

    What would be completely libertarian would be if the original bridge wasn’t replaced after it sank, and some business set up shop running an unlicensed ferry, hardly ever losing a commuter to the cold strong currents.

  50. 61

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @32 (continued)

    A few more thoughts on Narrows tolls.

    1. Total project cost is $849 million — which includes not only construction of the new bridge but also 2.5 miles of highway improvements and upgrading the old bridge. This amounts to almost exactly 1/10th of the $8.5 billion that will be raised by the 2005 gas tax increase.

    Question for Libertarian: Would adding a penny to the gas tax in order to eliminate the Narrows toll have changed your vote on I-912?

    2. Unlike King County, Pierce County does not export gas taxes to other counties — over 99% of the gas taxes collected in Pierce County are spent in Pierce County. This means financing the Narrows project with gas taxes would require importing gas tax revenues into Pierce County — but from where? Only 4 counties export more than $10 million of gas tax revenue per year: Thurston ($14.8 million), Yakima ($15.6 million), Spokane ($15.7 million), and King ($127.1 million). Are you going to defund King County’s critical safety projects so Peninsula commuters don’t have to pay tolls? (Note, if you live in Tacoma and work in Tacoma, you don’t use the Narrows bridge.) The only alternative to sucking transportation dollars away from other counties is to raise the gas tax even more. Is that your preference? (See (1) above)

    3. Finally, Pierce County voters were given the opportunity to vote on the project and method of financing in a 1998 election — and YOU FUCKING LOST!!! S

  51. 63

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Here are the results of the Tacoma Narrows Project advisory election:

    YES – 106,006 (54.1%)
    NO – 89,889 (45.9%)

    http://www.piercecountywa.org/.....8/el45.htm

    Of course, another alternative to tolls, raising the gas tax, or raiding gas tax revenues paid by other counties, was to NOT BUILD THE PROJECT and live with the traffic congestion. The people of Pierce County gave their answer, see above.

  52. 64

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    An advisory election on the Narrows Project also was held in Kitsap County. Here are their results:

    Yes – 36,693 (44.9%)
    No – 45,027 (55.1%)

    http://www.kitsapgov.com/aud/e.....eturns.pdf

    If you live in Kitsap County, Libertarian, you can justifiably argue the project was shoved down your throat — because the majority of Kitsap voters didn’t want it. If you live in Pierce County, you should be happy you’re getting your bridge and Narrows traffic congestion relief despite the opposition of Peninsula voters.

  53. 65

    Donnageddon spews:

    Not A Libertarian Stupidly Said @ 56 “Fighting against a toll on the Narrows is COMPLETELY Libertarian!”

    Since when do libertarians not support a pay as you go system and embrace the governmnent paying for it.

    You, my ignorant friend are a LINO.

  54. 66

    Ludicrus Maximus spews:

    Roger Rabbit:

    Off topic here, but I notice you’re up to about 8 5/8 pounds these days. You must be eating really well over at Chateau Sharkansky. And, I presume, leaving massive amounts of. . . er. . . “gifts” for Stefan.

  55. 67

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @56

    Who do you think I am, God? The Legislature? I’m just a fluffy 8 7/8-lb. bunny with pink ears and a cute cottontail!

    I’ve done what I could; I wrote to my state representative over a year ago arguing that tolls should be part of the financing for 520 and AWV.

    Neither project has a final design or cost at this time. However, it’s almost certain project costs will exceed state funding from the gas tax, and there will be some sort of local financing in the mix. That could be local taxes, or tolls, or a combination.

    My argument all along for financing these projects has been to spend gas taxes collected in King County on projects in King County. Barring that, I argued that selling development rights over the tunnel (if the tunnel option is selected) could defray the higher cost of a tunnel; or, alternatively, set up a Special Taxing District and tax the downtown property owners who will directly benefit from higher property values, improved views, better access, and other benefits of the project. One of these alternatives, or tolls, are fairer to people who don’t use AWV (e.g., non-commuting retirees on a fixed income like me) than a county-wide property tax.

  56. 68

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    With winter weather coming, here’s an important safety reminder: When caught on winter highways by fog and darkness, and unable to see a damn thing, stay to the right of the yellow stripe down prr’s back. This will keep you from crashing into oncoming traffic. Don’t worry about leaving tire tracks on prr; he’s an expendable trollfuck.

  57. 69

    hardovertoport spews:

    Roger Rabbit@64: Those individuals living across the bridge (Kitsap AND Pierce County residents across the bridge) opposed the second bridge by an overwhelming margin. The nearest, and thus the most likely frequent users did not want a second bridge – certainly not a toll bridge and those frequent , likely, users opposed the second bridge by an overhwelming margin – with good reason, they are the most impacted. However, the advisory vote included areas as far north as Port Angles on the west side of the bridge, and included all of Tacoma, and points further east and north of Tacoma. Those people who were unlikely to use the bridge, or only occasionally, were allowed to vote on the bridge, and since it wouldn’t impact them in any way, shape or form, they voted in favor of it – apparently thinking they were doing those most frequent users a favor by “giving” them a new bridge. To repeat: Those using the bridge daily, or several times a week were overwhelmingly opposed to a second bridge. That big, giant sucking sound people hear on the Kitsap/Pierce side of the bridge, is money flowing out of this area to help out suck-off Tacoma and points north and east from there. The second bridge was about economic development on the Tacoma side of the bridge at the expense of the commuters on the other side, who never wanted a second bridge at all.

  58. 70

    Mr. X spews:

    As far as I know, WSDOT is saying 520 will have tolls, and they made a preliminary decision not to put tolls on the AWV because there are a number of alternate routes. Sounds like they may be revisiting the idea of tolls on the AWV, but I bet the practical problems with how to collect them (can you imagine the line of traffic waiting to pay their toll north of the Battery Street Tunnel backing up to the Aurora Bridge, for example? Remember that on this sort of road, there is enough out-of-town traffic that some people will inevitably have to pay w/cash or credit) may make tolling the facility infeasible.

    Also, tolls do not raise enough alone to make either project pencil out w/o other funding.

    On the Narrows Bridge vote – it was a fairly shitty little piece of gerrymandering to force the project down Kitsap County voters’ throats, but what is done is done (and, keep in mind, that Pam Roach killed a similar toll road project proposed for SR 18 in 1995, as did then State-Senator Mike Heavey for the originally proposed “public private partnership” toll road tunnel proposed for the AWV in 1994/95. The next time I hear WSDOT try and say they didn’t decide to put a tunnel there until the last round of studies I’ll puke!)

  59. 71

    Dr. E spews:

    CO @ 42
    Hey, I agree with you… just reminiscing about the toll-booth scene from the movie, you know?

  60. 73

    dj spews:

    Roger Rabbit @ 49

    “I don’t support a variable tax on gasoline. Funding transportation projects requires a stable funding source. The number of gallons of fuel consumed by motorists is directly related to the amount of traffic, and not subject to fluctuation with pump prices, so a per-gallon tax provides a more dependable revenue stream that is more closely tied to highway construction and maintenance needs than a percentage tax would.”

    I was discussing a FIXED tax on each gallon of gasoline, but inflation adjusted every two years. So, if we use the figure of 31 cents in 2005, the tax would automatically increase (or decrease) with inflation. (i.e. the tax would remain $0.31/gal in 2005 dollars)

  61. 74

    ConservativeFirst spews:

    “King County exports over $125 million a year of gas taxes; Pierce County exports about $1 million – PC is just shy of being a break-even county.”

    Where did you get your numbers? What time frame are you talking about? Looks to me like KC is getting more than what they pay out, at least from 1984-2003.

    http://tinyurl.com/asobg

    “Hasn’t King County always eaten up the tax dollars?

    A: Over the two decades spanning 1984-2003, King County received $1.09 per $1 contributed but most counties got more than $1 back. Thurston County got $1.15, largely due to the massive Interstate 5 widening project in the 1980s.

    Only six counties failed to break even in that two-decade span- Whatcom, at 61 cents per $1, did the worst. Spokane, Clark, Yakima, Pierce, Benton, Mason, Snohomish and Franklin counties also got less than $1.

    Looked at regionally, DOT data show that three sub-areas of Eastern Washington have gotten far more than they paid in historically. For the two decades, north-central Washington region received $1.29 per $1 paid in, south central Washington got $1.03 and the most eastern counties got $1.17. Only the Olympic Peninsula region received less than $1.”
    Comment by Roger Rabbit— 11/16/05 @ 2:17 pm

  62. 75

    marks spews:

    Donnageddon @65

    Not A Libertarian Stupidly Said @ 56 “Fighting against a toll on the Narrows is COMPLETELY Libertarian!”

    Since when do libertarians not support a pay as you go system and embrace the governmnent paying for it.

    Are you an ignoranus, or what? Do you understand the political philosophy of Libertarians? A Google search would come up with their platform, but I prefer M-W:

    Main Entry: lib·er·tar·i·an
    Pronunciation: “li-b&r-‘ter-E-&n
    Function: noun
    1 : an advocate of the doctrine of free will
    2 a : a person who upholds the principles of absolute and unrestricted liberty especially of thought and action

    They get the best of both worlds: Your desire for no religious infringements and no “Neocon” wars, and not paying taxes for anything, since their world is Darwinian.

    Donna @72

    hardovertoport, did someone forget to change your diapers?

    You are an ignoranus. Port and Starboard. Which side is left?

    dj @73

    I was discussing a FIXED tax on each gallon of gasoline, but inflation adjusted every two years. So, if we use the figure of 31 cents in 2005, the tax would automatically increase (or decrease) with inflation. (i.e. the tax would remain $0.31/gal in 2005 dollars)

    Intriguing. So now it is like my property tax, which fluctuates upwards invariably year to year.

  63. 76

    dj spews:

    Marks @ 75,

    “Intriguing. So now it is like my property tax, which fluctuates upwards invariably year to year.

    Ummm…I guess that means you did not pay property tax in 1812, 1863, or 1919.

    In fact, the gas tax already does work this way—but only very slopily. The legislature must increase the gas tax every few years just to keep up with inflation (see Goldy’s post on it here).

    But, tying automatic increases (and the rare decrease) into, say, the consumer price index, would add some stability to transportation infrastructure revenue. That way there wouldn’t have to be big political mêlées every few years just to keep the funding at a (inflation-adjusted) constant level.

  64. 77

    righton spews:

    dj; if you can find a way to tie my wage to COLA, and also my investment income, then sure, go ahead and tie my taxes to CPI or other index.

    Makes us like Argentina, Italy, all the banana republics with upside down economics..

  65. 78

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    LEFTISACLOWN sez:
    “Go ahead and bitch all you want about paying the increased gas tax. When the roads are fixed you’ll enjoy them too.
    Maybe we’ll see even better employment numbers once business can get their products to markets?”
    Just wishin’ and hopin’……….
    Dude…I doubt any of us here will live that long!!
    I totally agree roads must be fixed and traffic volume vastly improved.
    The questions are:
    1) At what cost?
    2) What priorities?
    3) What accountability?
    4) WHO and HOW is WSDOT performance measured??
    Exit polls showed over 55% polled did not believe WSDOT would spend the GasTax money wisely.
    I-912 was defeated out of sheer desperation.
    It is always a bad idea to borrow or agree to tax increases out of desperation…..feeling like more money is the ONLY solution.
    8 DAYS since I-912 defeated and traffic is still worse.
    I’ll still be saying that on DAY 1000!

  66. 79

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Righton@77 sez:
    “dj; if you can find a way to tie my wage to COLA, and also my investment income, then sure, go ahead and tie my taxes to CPI or other index. Makes us like Argentina, Italy, all the banana republics with upside down economics..”

    Excellent point and BURN!!!
    The problem dj and the other CLOWNS have is they struggle coming to grips with the fact that many taxpayers have to earn what they get EVERY DAY!! They don’t have cushy government jobs that are protected no matter how bad their performance is.
    dj sez—GUARANTEE TAX REVENUE!!!
    In dj’s fantasy world EVERYONE has guaranteed revenue!!!!!!
    Wouldn’t life be great in a totally socialized system dj???
    Just think, the government will take care of you…CRADLE TO GRAVE!!! You can just BLOG all day long and no one will be upset that you aren’t producing or earning your way.
    EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO A GUARANTEED INCOME!!! Right dj??

  67. 80

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @66

    I am, unfortunately, suffering from an expanding waistline despite all the exercise I get hopping up the hill from Green Lake Park to Stefan’s garden.

  68. 81

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @73

    “I was discussing a FIXED tax on each gallon of gasoline, but inflation adjusted every two years. So, if we use the figure of 31 cents in 2005, the tax would automatically increase (or decrease) with inflation. (i.e. the tax would remain $0.31/gal in 2005 dollars)”

    Okay, I misunderstood, and this is closer to my parameters. As a practical matter, though, I don’t think either the legislature or voters will buy the idea of an unelected calculator raising gas taxes.

  69. 83

    dj spews:

    Righton @ 77

    “if you can find a way to tie my wage to COLA, and also my investment income, then sure, go ahead and tie my taxes to CPI or other index.”

    For wages, that is pretty much done (at least, on average) by “the market.” Investment income is too broad a category to generalize, but any intelligent investor ought to be able to do better than inflation!

  70. 84

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @74

    You left out this part of the quote:

    “if lawmakers had not approved the 5-cent gas-tax increase in 2003, Puget Sound would have received just 89 cents per dollar paid in over the next decade.”

    If you look at the past 20 years, you get the numbers you cited, but in recent years there has been a steady trend in the direction of defunding King County, and of King County exporting an ever-growing amount of gas tax revenues to other parts of the state. The $127 million figures is 1/2 of a projected $254 million of export dollars in the 2005-2007 biennium.

    http://www.metrokc.gov/exec/ne.....ansrev.htm

  71. 85

    dj spews:

    Roger Rabbit @ 81

    “As a practical matter, though, I don’t think either the legislature or voters will buy the idea of an unelected calculator raising gas taxes.”

    Maybe. But, as Marks pointed out, this kind of thing already happens with property tax. Of course, there is an extra satisfaction of seeing your property value increase with property tax, even though some chunk of that increase is illusory.

  72. 86

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    dj@83 sez:
    “For wages, that is pretty much done (at least, on average) by “the market.” Investment income is too broad a category to generalize, but any intelligent investor ought to be able to do better than inflation!”
    But dj…we want a GUARANTEED wage and investment income!
    You are missing the point…..if you want to GUARANTEE tax increases….we want all our income and expenses GUARANTEED TOO!!
    Keep doing that dj and where does it lead???
    It is important for government to be constantly accountable to it’s citizens.
    It’s real simple….if they don’t perform, NO MORE MONEY!!
    Just like if people don’t perform at work…they get fired (unless you work for the government, of course…then you get promoted!)

  73. 87

    dj spews:

    Mr. Cynical @ 79

    “dj sez—GUARANTEE TAX REVENUE!!!”

    No…acutally I did not say that. But, as a matter of fact, I have no illusions that taxes are going away.

    Do you believe that taxes will be eliminated Mr. C???????

    “In dj’s fantasy world EVERYONE has guaranteed revenue!!!!!!”

    Ummmm…nope. I never said anything at all like that.

    “Wouldn’t life be great in a totally socialized system dj???”

    No, I’m not impressed with totally socialized governments.

    “Just think, the government will take care of you…CRADLE TO GRAVE!!!”

    I am not aware of ANY governmental system where everyone is taken care of from cradle to grave. The concept can be shown to violate basic laws of thermodynamics.

    “You can just BLOG all day long and no one will be upset that you aren’t producing or earning your way.
    EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO A GUARANTEED INCOME!!! Right dj?? “

    Well, you may believe that, but if so I think you are naive.

    Hey, Cynical, you seem to have totally lost your sense of humor. Come on, ol’ chap…snap out of it!

  74. 90

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @89

    How do you think all those cute fluffy bunnies in Green Lake Park got there? Do you think a stork brought them?

  75. 91

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @89

    In any case, you gotta do it in and out, not up and down, you fucking idiot!!! No wonder the Republicans have always been a minority party.

  76. 95

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @93

    Who says being a mechanic is an insult? Everyone here acknowledges the reports the David Irons is a good mechanic. My mechanic is a good mechanic, too, but that doesn’t qualify him to run King County’s government. On the other hand, I wouldn’t ask Ron Sims to fix my car.

  77. 96

    dj spews:

    Mike Miller @ 93

    “Why always mention that Iron’s is a mechanic like it;s an insult?”

    You misunderstand. Most of the time when Irons former occupation has been discussed (esp. by Goldy and Irons’ mother), it has been positive about his skills as a mechanic.

    Take, for instance, Goldy’s opening here:

    David Irons Jr.’s mother has mixed emotions about her son. On the upside, she says he’s “very good with his hands.” On the downside, she claims he’s used them to beat her.

    (The “good with his hands” refers to his skills as a mechanic, of course).

  78. 97

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Hey, I really hope WSDOT is successful relieve significant traffic congestion with these many BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. They better, don’t you think??
    Our problem always has been and continues to be a lack of benchmarks and measurables to evaluate WSDOT and ensure taxpayers we are getting optimum bang for the buck. WSDOT sets Budgets. WSDOT sets timetables. When WSDOT overhead and planning costs are questioned….they tell questioners they aren’t smart enough to question.
    When folks question measurables like cost per mile etc. and compare that cost with other states productivity which is much better, questioners are told it’s not fair to compare.
    WSDOT can avoid any and all accountability as long as they have you CLOWNS running interference and being cheerleaders.

  79. 98

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Rog@95 sez
    “My mechanic is a good mechanic, too, but that doesn’t qualify him to run King County’s government. On the other hand, I wouldn’t ask Ron Sims to fix my car.”
    But you probably would hire Sims to “polish your knob”!!

  80. 99

    Donnageddon spews:

    Libertarian Contrarian @ 75 “Are you an ignoranus, or what? Do you understand the political philosophy of Libertarians? ”

    First you should use M-W more often, it would help your spelling. Secondly, I surely understand Libertarian philosophy, and with your “Make the govrnment pay for it attitude, you would not be allowed on the Libertarian softball club.

    You, my friend are an ignorant ignoramus. And definitely NOT a Libertatian.

  81. 101

    ConservativeFirst spews:

    Comment by Roger Rabbit— 11/16/05 @ 10:20 pm

    “If you look at the past 20 years, you get the numbers you cited, but in recent years there has been a steady trend in the direction of defunding King County, and of King County exporting an ever-growing amount of gas tax revenues to other parts of the state. The $127 million figures is 1/2 of a projected $254 million of export dollars in the 2005-2007 biennium.”

    Clearly, in the long term King County has been a beneficiary of gas tax money, not the exporter you’ve been touting incessantly. The money received by King County over the past twenty years far exceeds money they have exported recently.

    In addition, if you want to look at the big transportation picture, Pierce and Snohomish Counties are exporting large amounts of money to King County, via motor vehicle excise taxes, to build light rail.

  82. 102

    marks spews:

    Donna @99

    So, in addition to being an ignoranus, you are also denser than depleted uranium…thanks for the illustration. Next time, instead of whining about spelling, try to actually comprehend the point. I know, it takes lots of concentration for you, but ya gotta keep trying…

    However, since you nitpicked:

    “Make the govrnment pay for it attitude,[…]

    The spelling is g-o-v-e-r-n-m-e-n-t.

    And no, I am not a Libertarian, because people self-regulating their actions with no controls when the ‘rules’ are broken (how can there be rules in a Libertarian world?) is anarchy.

  83. 103

    Donnageddon spews:

    marks, I recognise your reading disorder and will try to discuss things with you knowing that you are mentally handicapped.

    I was talking to “Libertarian” not you.

    I understand that such “subtle” obviousness may be lost on you.

    Perhaps you should consider getting a tutor, or someone to read and explain the posts to you, in your childlike language.

  84. 104

    Donnageddon spews:

    And yes, Libertarians are complete horses ass’s who have no understanding of the real world.

    On that I, and your simple mind, agree.

  85. 105

    Puddybud spews:

    Man I miss all the funnies while working. Denser than depleted uranium. The stuff used to penetrate tank armor. Spelling lessons given. Ouch my sides are hurting, LMAO! Now that’s FUNNY!