Lost in all the news coverage and self-righteous editorializing over the most recent misstep in Washington’s drunken stagger toward a “top two” primary, is what could amount to the most monumental legal fuck up in state history… one which puts the legitimacy of our entire 2008 election in jeopardy.
Sure, Secretary of State Sam Reed deserves some of the blame for rushing to implement top two while a permanent injunction was still in place, but ultimately it is Attorney General Rob McKenna’s responsibility for signing off on Reed’s overeagerness without having first dotted and crossed all the legal i’s and t’s in the wake of the US Supreme Court’s recent decision.
“The Supreme Court order speaks for itself,” [Deputy Solicitor General James] Pharris said. “It would just be a technicality to go back and have that order dissolved now.”
No, the Supreme Court order does not speak for itself — under federal rules a “permanent” injunction remains in place until it is dissolved, and until that time, conducting a top two primary remains a violation of a valid court order. And if Pharris and McKenna were doing their jobs (competently) there would be no need to “go back” and address a so-called “technicality” just one month before the primary.
See, this is what you get when you elect an Attorney General who has never really been a practicing attorney. To date, McKenna and his office have never asked Judge Zilly to modify, dissolve or remove his injunction; they either plum forgot there even was an injunction, or simply do not know how court orders work. (HINT: They are orders, and as such one must comply with them until the court or a higher court says differently.)
For the AG’s office to dismiss a standing court order as “a technicality” is downright laughable coming from practitioners of a profession built entirely on technicalities. That’s what our legal system is: codified technicalities. Hell, rapists sometimes get off on technicalities, and this technicality has the potential to screw every voter in the state.
And how screwed could the state be? HA regular Richard Pope has outlined a pretty devastating worst case scenario in a letter to the Secretary of State’s office… devastating, that is, if you are a minor party candidate like Dino Rossi, seeking a prominent (or any) spot on the November ballot. Dismiss it as hyperbole if you want, but there are hundreds of races on the ballot throughout the state, and should the top two primary proceed in violation of a standing court order, Pope’s analysis would provide a legal basis for discontented voters to contest every single one of them. That’s the sort of electoral chaos to which McKenna and Reed’s monumental fuckup could potentially lead.
I wouldn’t be surprised, given what’s at stake, if Judge Zilly expedites these matters ahead of our August primary, but that doesn’t excuse McKenna for failing to do his job in a timely and professional manner. Our state’s editorialists miss the mark by attacking the parties and their attorneys for the precarious legal limbo in which we now find ourselves, when it is in fact their beloved media darling, Rob McKenna, who is to blame for an egregious error that is nothing short of legal malpractice.
Two republicans in charge – chaos follows. No news there.
Anyone who’s following the medical marijuana issue knows that Rob McKenna’s concern for state law takes a big back seat to promoting the Republican agenda.
Great opportunity to crack McKenna’s teflon shield and put yet another BIAW puppet on the margins.
Sam Reed can never be forgiven for trying to ramrod that “no match no vote” registration junk through. And now he’s done this. I wish we had a stronger challenger to him.
[Deleted — Darryl, see HA Comment Policy]
Now that’s a post. Good one Goldy.
@4
Nice attempt to change the subject.
If you want to win in the fall, you need to be sticking up for your boys, proving Goldy wrong, Etc.
I would love for the August 19, 2008 primary to be conducted under the 2004 “Pick-A-Party” primary law that we have used for the previous four years. We have ten candidates for Governor — two Democrats (including Christine Gregoire), two Republicans, four minor party candidates (including Dino Rossi of the G.O.P. Party), and two candidates without party affiliation.
Gregoire would face a bruising battle for renomination against Democrat Christian Joubert. John Aiken and Javier Lopez would fight it out for the Republican nomination. And the other six candidates would be placed directly on the general election ballot.
There would be a lot of people voting for the official Republican nominee (Aiken or Lopez), instead of third party candidate Rossi — simply because Aiken or Lopez would be listed as REPUBLICAN. Rossi hopes that calling himself “G.O.P” will fool Democrats or independents, but it would also fool Republicans too.
Also, if Rossi was put directly on the general election ballot, and did not appear on the primary ballot due to his decision to run under a minor party label, his maximum campaign contribution limits would be cut in half. He can get up to $1,600 per election from each contribution, and if he did not appear on the primary ballot, these amounts would be cut in half.
Rob McKenna argued the U.S. Supreme Court decision himself, so he can’t blame his subordinates for screwing this thing up.
Also, this is not a mere technicality. The U.S. Supreme Court simply said that the Ninth Circuit used incorrect legal reasoning in its March 18, 2008 decision. The Ninth Circuit now has to re-decide the appeal, using the legal standards adopted by the Supreme Court. The Ninth Circuit has asked the parties to submit additional briefs on the other issues raised in the appeal. After this is done, the Ninth Circuit will decide the appeal.
Until the Ninth Circuit actually re-decides the appeal, the “permanent injunction” will remain in place. Technically, the Ninth Circuit would have to re-decide the appeal, order the injunction reversed, and then the district court would have to issue an order actually implementing the appeals court decision and vacating the “permanent injunction”. (The Ninth Circuit could also end up affirming the “permanent injunction”, based on issues not addressed in the Supreme Court “certiorari” decision.)
The other option would be for the state to ask either Judge Zilly or the Ninth Circuit to stay the “permanent injunction” pending decision on the appeal. This was already done back in 2005, and the stay was denied in both courts. However, given the U.S. Supreme Court decision, the request for stay could be revisited and there would be a good possibility for a stay to be granted.
Of course, Rob McKenna should have done this MONTHS ago. The U.S. Supreme Court decision was rendered on March 18, 2008. McKenna should have immediately asked Judge Zilly and the Ninth Circuit for a stay of the “permanent injunction”, if he wanted his client (Sam Reed and the state) to be able to conduct a “Top Two” primary for this election cycle.
But this is what we get when we elect an Attorney General with NO LITIGATION EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER.
Richard,
It is an interesting issue that you bring up, but if the top-two is somehow thrown out, I don’t know that Rossi will be as stuck as you’d like him to be.
For one, the party labels in the top-two are, essentially, casual and don’t mean much. If we revert to an older primary system, the parties will demand their right for input and/or influence on labels that they have always had and the only way to do that would be to throw out the applications and have everyone re-apply (or, at the very least, allow applications to be changed).
I know this is off-topic. Why are Republicans proud that the US is the word’s biggest polluter?
http://www.independent.co.uk/n.....63911.html
@7,8
Yay, Richard!
Richard Pope is a funny guy.
He has tried everything to get elected to public office…and is a perrenial loser.
His latest about face is to now pander to David Goldstein and his merry band of nuts.
Richard has no moral or ethical compass.
Gee, Rossi’s going to be VERY embarrased if the Republican candidates siphon off a substantial number of votes he is expecting to receive. It would be hillarious if he doesn’t even make the general ballot.
13: Except that once again – richard is right and you wingnuts are wrong. sorry – McKenna is not a very good Attorney General – all hat and no lawyer – who screws up too much to be re-elected.
Good work Richard – once again you attend to the details that nail the republicans wingnuts.
So maybe Richard is not a great candidate – but he is a very good researcher and you can’t impugn his facts.
How quickly we forget, especially when Democrats are involved.
Who remembers the Beckman case, in which the AG’s office under Christine Gregoire missed an appeal deadline? This resulted in the largest tort damage judgement against the state, costing taxpayers 17.8-million dollars for the judgement alone.
As fuckups go, this one was truly monumental.
@15 You must be simply aghast at the stupendously monumental screw-ups by Bush/Cheney. Heck, Iraq alone is a trillion dollar waste.
Steve@16:
I am aghast at the screwups of Bush/Cheney.
This discussion is limited, however, to what David calls, “monumental legal fuck ups in state history.”
usuallyincorrect @ 14
“So maybe Richard is not a great candidate – but he is a very good researcher and you can’t impugn his facts.”
I don’t recall that being the prevailing Lefty opinion here when Richard researched the multi-car crash that Darcy caused a couple of years ago. (I wonder how the injured child is doing these days) It isn’t surprising, though, since the HA policy for intellectual (dis)honesty takes into account the party being attacked.
Luigi @15,
Actually, the Beckman case, which your side touted incessantly during 2004, is nothing compared to potentially screwing up an entire election. (And by the way, the appeal would have been to cut the size of the award, not eliminate it, so there’s no way missing that deadline cost the state $17.8 million.)
How is it possible that the AG and the SOS felt they could hold an election in violation of a standing court order? What did they think would come of that?
Ok, I’m not generally a big fan of Mr. Pope, having met him personally on several occasions. That said, I have always respected his commitment to public service, as much as I vehemently disagree with him on almost everything.
Almost everything.
In this case he appears to have a done an excellent job assembling the case against the state implementing a top-two primary. Even though I’d prefer the top two, the legal case seems to be in favor of Pope. And despite all evidence to the contrary over the past eight years, this is still a country of laws.
Besides, I think it’s fricking hilarious that Rossi’s smarmy effort to distance himself from the Republican Party could end up biting him in the ass. That’s truly poetic justice!
Laura Bush killed a guy – but all the right wing hypocrites here are okay with that because she’s a republican.
Republicans fucked up the primary system but right wing hypocrites are okay with that because they are republican.
Ergo – right wingers are simply hypocrites.
Attention right wing baby rapers – the Beckman case didn’t do you any good in the last election so stick with that shit assholes. Keep digging the same hole and keep loooooosing. If we’re all lucky someone will kick some dirt on top of you and bury you in the process and the world will be better for it.
BREAKING 1023 year old FlipFlop McCain throws yet ANOTHER advisor under the bus! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25628205/
@7 “Gregoire would face a bruising battle for renomination against Democrat Christian Joubert.”
Pope, the crack you’re smoking must be particularly potent today.
David@19:
First, I’m not on the other side. I’m an old-school classical liberal, a real liberal.
Second, since the AG’s office missed the deadline, we don’t really know how they would have approached the case. Your assertion that the appeal would have been to cut the size of the award is speculative.
Third, the award wasn’t covered by insurance because the deadline was missed. The state incurred costs over and above the award for investigation, analysis of procedures, fighting the lawsuit of an assistant attorney general who was fired, etc.
As mentioned, as fuckups go, this one was truly monumental. Don’t kid yourself. I’m sure Governor Gregoire cringes whenever she sees or hears the word Beckman.
Luigi @ 15: Yep, that bothered me a bit. I was concerned that she was concentrating on the multi-state tobacco settlement, and neglecting administrative affairs here at home. I wasn’t even crazy about her administration of the Dept. of Ecology (for reasons too technical to go into here).
But all things considered, she was still a better candidate than her opponant, who clearly knows NEXT TO NOTHING about running anything larger than a small real estate office. (On the plus side, he’s probably too incompetent as a state leader to put into effect the policies he and his allies hope to promote).
So – ancient history. Any governor who can broker an agreement between the doctors and the trial lawyers deserves a lot of credit in my book. She even pissed off the insurance industry in the process, because they didn’t want a settlement, they wanted a war with the doctors as their proxies so they could legally avoid paying out claims, while still keeping medical malpractice premiums high. She gets extra credit for that in my book.
@8 “Rob McKenna argued the U.S. Supreme Court decision himself, so he can’t blame his subordinates for screwing this thing up.”
Watch Republican hypocrites who blamed Attorney General Gregoire for the mistake of a low-level staff attorney who missed a filing deadline rush to the defense of a political attorney general who doesn’t know how to look at a file to see if there’s a court order in it!
@12 “His latest about face is to now pander to David Goldstein and his merry band of nuts.”
Richard isn’t pandering. He’s one of us now! Eventually you’ll be a Democrat too. You just don’t know it yet.
@20 Richard is one of those people who manage to serve the public without being elected to public service. For example, even though he failed to get elected as a district court judge, he succeeding in getting a bad judge off the bench. Gandhi never held office, either.
Popemeister, too……much……..input…….head is killing me…..
#12 – You must be new here.
(drum roll……)
@15 How quickly you have forgotten that Gregoire won a $4.25 billion judgment in favor of the taxpayers of Washington state!
Luigi @ 25: Nope, you got your facts wrong – as well as the legal consequences. The state admitted liability (they pretty much had to). The only question at trial was the amount of the damages, so that was the only amount they could appeal. They were going to have to pay something – in the millions of dollars – but how much is speculative.
Personally, I think the state had a pretty weak case on appeal. Unlike the Exon Valdez case recently decided by the Supreme Court, it wasn’t an issue of punitive damages or admiralty law which can be reduced by the court on it’s own. These were considered to be actual damages (punitive damages are not allowed under the Washington State Constitution). The actual damages were determined by the jury (I think it was a jury trial).
As such, the Appeals Court is limited in what it can do. It can’t substitute it’s own decision as to what the facts are. It can only determine whether there was an error in the conduct of the trial, such as evidentiary issues, instructions to the jury, etc.
In some limited cases, the court can reduce the award if it decides that it is “clearly erroneous or based upon excessive emotion or prejudice”, or a similar standard, but those reductions are exceedingly rare.
So although it was a big mistake in the attorney general’s office, the allegation that it cost the state the amount you indicated is also not true. In all probability, the award would have been upheld.
As for the insurance issue, it wasn’t just the error in filing which the insurance company was using to deny coverage – they were arguing that there was no coverage at all based upon the intentional nature of the abuse the boys received, which they argued wasn’t covered under the policy.
@25 “First, I’m not on the other side. I’m an old-school classical liberal, a real liberal.”
Whatever. Why don’t you call Wingnut Hannah for a date? You two have much in common. Unless, of course, she’s your sister.
“Second, since the AG’s office missed the deadline, we don’t really know how they would have approached the case. Your assertion that the appeal would have been to cut the size of the award is speculative.”
Not really. Your insinuation that the appeal would have eliminated isn’t speculative, it’s bullshit. There is no chance the plaintiffs wouldn’t have walked away from the appeal with millions of dollars. None.
“As mentioned, as fuckups go, this one was truly monumental.”
Not really. A few million bucks doesn’t amount to much anymore, as litigation goes. See, e.g., the $4.25 billion that Gregoire brought home for Washington taxpayers from the tobacco case.
“I’m sure Governor Gregoire cringes whenever she sees or hears the word Beckman.”
Not really. She’s no more responsible for the missed deadline than any supervisor whose subordinate makes a mistake. These things happen in all organizations including private corporations. See, e.g., Washington Mutual’s multi-billion-dollar fuckup — but Kerry Killinger not only still has his job, he still has his stock options. And he’s a lot more personally responsible for WaMu’s stock losing 95% of its value than Gregoire is for Beckman.
@30 OMIGOD that’s right!! We have a NEWBIE on the board today!! As HA’s official greeter, it is my responsibility to inform the new poster of HA’s ad hoc posting rules. So, here goes:
1) This is a liberal blog.
2) Anyone can post here, except JCH.
3) There is no censorship.
4) As liberals, our mission is to verbally kick the living shit out of wingnut troll traitors.
5) No mercy for wingnuts!
6) Our terms are unconditional surrender; there will be trials.
7) klake is a nazi.
Any questions?
I Got Nuthin @ 24
A potential Gregoire-Joubert primary contest on a Democratic ballot deserves as much satire as an Aiken-Lopez contest for the Republican nomination for Governor. Gregoire would of course sweep to an easy victory, but not by anything approaching unanimity.
On a ballot with all the candidates to choose from, virtually all Democratic voters will chose Gregoire and Joubert might be lucky to get 2% of the overall vote. But if you put Gregoire and Joubert on a Democrats-only primary ballot, you are going to see at least 10% to 15% of Democratic voters picking Joubert for whatever reason.
In 2004, Rossi got only 85.14% of Republican votes in the primary, despite the lack of any major opponent. In the U.S. Senate primary race that year, Patty Murray had 92.20% and George Nethercutt 82.88%. In the 2006 U.S. Senate primary, Maria Cantwell had 90.76% and Mike McGavick 85.88%.
In the 2005 King County Executive primary, Ron Sims had two minor opponents, and only received 70.48% of the Democratic primary vote. Sims only had 45% of the overall votes in the primary (including those Republicans who voted for David Irons), but that did not prevent him from winning the general election with 55.62% of the vote.
Factoid: “Since 1980, the cost of education at a public college has roughly doubled, after inflation, while median household incomes have been roughly flat.”
Quoted under fair use from Charles R. Morris, “Trillion Dollar Meltdown,” Public Affairs Books: New York, 2008, at p. 149.
RR@29:
Richard might be a King County councilmember today if the Democrats in KC District 6 had got behind him and supported him. Jane Hague was really vulnerable. Even, David, fearful of the wrath of Democrats, offered only lukewarm, tepid support.
Factoid: The government pays $11 in subsidies per $100 of loan value to private underwriters of student loans, compared to $4.50 in administrative costs for the federal government’s direct student lending program.
Source: Ibid.
@28,29
Nice rebuttals.
Factoid: The Bush administration based its claim that Social Security will run out of money on the assumption that the economy will grow an average of only 1.6% a year from 2020 through 2075, compared to an actual growth rate of 3.8% since 1929 (including the Great Depression years).
Source: Id, p. 151.
Factoid: The Bush administration based its case for private accounts on the assumption that the stock market would experience average growth of 6.5% a year, after inflation, forever.
Source: Ibid.
How an economy growing at a rate of only 1.8% can produce stock gains of 6.5% was not explained.
@23
That wasn’t just any adviser, that was Phil Gramm that got thrown under the bus.
Factoid: Under Bush’s privatization scheme, private account holders would have been charged 2% to 3.5%, plus inflation, of their contributions to make up the loss to the Social Security Trust Fund. In addition, the government would have had to contribute another $1 trillion to $2 trillion to the SSTF.
Source: Id., fn. p. 152
You guys – especially that flake Pope (what are you today Richard, a Demo, A Repub), are just tools of the mean angry ugly bald guy (Pelz) and toads of the party apparatus. How sad you are as you whine your way to oblivion and the very people you think need to be steered are taking control of their electoral destiny. And to cry about “minor” parties not involved are more fake tears – in reality they are all now on the same footing.
The wise words of a wise man should ring in your ears – even 100 years later. You are a bunch of sad whining flaccid losers – power to the people and down with the elitists!
“Look at the tyranny of party — at what is called party allegiance, party loyalty — a snare invented by designing men for selfish purposes — and which turns voters into chattels, slaves, rabbits, and all the while their masters, and they themselves are shouting rubbish about liberty, independence, freedom of opinion, freedom of speech, honestly unconscious of the fantastic contradiction … .”
— “The Character of Man,” Mark Twain’s autobiography
@37 That’s nothing compared to where Bush would be today* if the Democrats in Congress had any balls.
* Paraguay
@45 So? Does this make Republicans progressive? Despite their shortcomings, we still like our party bosses better than your party’s bosses.
@45 “power to the people and down with the elitists!”
If you’re talking about those elitist commie-fascist, mule-fucking traitors on the right, well, then I’m with you, bro, all the way.
RR@31&33:
The tobacco shakedown was unseemly. By the way, how much MO do you hold?
Regarding Killinger, I was surprised at the support he received at the shareholders’ meeting. The shareholders of WM are similar to the Washington voters who voted for Gregoire in 2004.
“how much MO do you hold”
HorsesAss – where investors make money on every trade.
Geez, how’s those coal stocks doing? I notice that nobody’s talking about JRCC anymore. Little wonder, huh?
Whenever someone says they are not on either side that’s code for the fact that they are a right wing republican.
@51
You and Steve sure say a lot of the same things, and in the same way. Are you two “close”? Or are you the same person?
Those of us who have not had contact sown onto or corneas have noticed that the “two major” Wastate parties no longer have any clothes on.
I would bet that a poll based on the number of card carrying members, ie contributors of either party would find that 15% or less donate a split farthng .. or its equivalent the Bushella … to either party.
The parties have become facades. DL, HA and the the Wellstone Institute probably do more to develop new progrssive candydates than does the state politburu.
So, here is SJ’s idea:
1. The state should play no role in party elections other than the role of a policeman tio control fraud.
2. The parties should do whatever they damn well want, within the law, to choose their slates. They can have a convention, use email, or smash chicken bones.
3. They can theb support the hell out of their slates in two rounds of campaigning. IF there are any clothes on the chosen candydates, and if the the part spends dollars on one candydate for each posiiton, then we will be ablwe to figger out who is a mjor party by whose nominees get the most votes!
4. The two with highest number get 4 weeks to slug it out one on one.
………………..
so where does htis go?
At a guess? The Dems in Wastate wold do fine. We would probably also see a rival for the reps. It is not hard to imagie a party that would get more votes than the reps so we might end up with dems and dem others.
Seriously, why should I ever care what the dem party heads think or want?
Wait, late breaking news”
(SJN Seattle, WA 10-7-08)
Equine party Appears as Likley Succesors to the GOP.
David Goldstein, State Chair of the Equine party (a promotion from beinbg the parties rear end), announced that a gift of 1 billion dollars from Geof Bexos was goin g to be used to create an endowment for a new practical party names after horses, The Equine Party.
In a surprise act, the party announced its candidates for stewide office:
Superman Ron Sims
Governor Will
Lt Govcernor Lee
AG Roger Rabbit
Mayor Lynn
OK?
@52 Geez, I-Burn, does Roger call you a treasonous, child-raping, goat fucking, commie-fascist girly-man too? Right on, Roger.
But no, Roger and I are not the same person. But like I’ve said before, I could give a flying monkey fuck what you think. You’re a commie-fascist traitor, I-Burn, so your view doesn’t count for shit.
If the “permanent” injunction is soooo valid get it enforced, otherwise this is just bullshit speculation.
If some one is stupid enough (both parties) to seek to have the injunction enforced the District Court would lift the injunction and abide by the language of the Supreme Court.
Richard since you are so right go get the injunction enforced. All used air and no balls.
@54
Even you can’t really be that stupid. I was addressing BBG, not Roger. Though I suppose if you and BBG really are the same person, your post makes a nice piece of misdirection.
How about it Goldy. Are Steve and BBG posting from the same IP address?
Geez, Goldie, please don’t rat on Roger, er, BBG and me.
Really, I-Burn, you are one dumbass commie-fascist traitor, and a whiny-ass bitch, to boot.
If only there was a candidate for AG that actually knew how to try a case. That had been an elected prosecutor for over a decade. Oh, wait…
@57
I’m so wounded…Not! You about the very last one to be questioning anyone elses intelligence, sport. Believe it.
@59 Weak shit, troll. Don’t you know when you’re being called out? You’re a fucking coward. You know it. I know it. Everybody knows it.
@61
Ohhhh “Called Out”. Wow. Now I’m really scared, BBG…err Steve. What a truly fearsome keyboard commando you are. Why I’m just frightened to death. Dumbass.
@61 Thanks for the laugh, traitor. OK, I’m done with you. You can go back to expressing your usual hatred of America, Mom and apple pie.
@58 Hey, Sidran, is that you?
@62
Probably a good idea. Never bring a knife to a gun fight – you’ll most likely lose.
Luigi @ 49: “The tobacco shakedown was unseemly…”
THAT’S the best you got? It’s UNSEEMLY to require an industry which produces an addictive product, one which is proven in study after study to cause death and disease when used exactly as intended, to pay for the indirect expenses which fall upon the state as a result of that product?????
I guess under your standards, police seizure of cocaine is “unseemly”, also.
My only problem with the tobacco settlementwas that itIlet the tobacco industry off the hook too easily. They had the tobacco industry by the balls, and the opportunity to put the big players into bankruptcy and, hopefully, out of business, but they got bought off a bit too cheaply, by my measure.
Let’s face it, if that’s your best retort to Gregoire leading a major group of attorney generals in complex litigation which resulted in a settlement favorable to the state, you don’t have much there.
@64 I take it back, I’m not quite finished with you. What gun fight? You mean to say that you America-hating, commie-fascist traitors have guns??
I Burn – I didn’t give you permission to speak to me you little bitch. When I get done fucking your wife in the ass I’ll be glad to talk to you.
Why don’t you show up at DL or are you like the rest of the cowards in your clan?
Puddylicker refused to meet me at a public place – I guess you would too.
Just like you’re ashamed of Bush you’re also ashamed of your own bullshit.
Admit it you little cunt and I MIGHT not out you any further. I might make you beg tho…
@67 That bitch of yours, I-Burn, is nowhere to be found. I bet he’s fucking his mule – or maybe even a chicken. Those America-hating, commie-fascist traitors are weird that way.
55 Said: “Since you are so right go get the injunction enforced….”
Uh, stupid, we don’t want to get the injunction enforced. We want a valid election. That’s important to us.
Come to think of it, perhaps that’s the plan? McKenna doesn’t get the injunction lifted. Reed goes ahead with the election. Rossi loses. Then Rossi files a lawsuit to overturn the election, as it violates the injunction. The state is in turmoil for another year of litigation over an election challenge.
John Ladenburg seems to have a press release up about this on his website. http://www.ladenburg.org
“Voters wanted a top two primary, but McKenna’s huge mistake undermines voter intent and could cost taxpayers millions in additional legal costs,” said Ladenburg. “This is what happens when you have an AG who has never been inside a courtroom before taking office; he simply doesn’t understand the basics. He never went back to court to try to get the injunction lifted or modified. It’s a simple step that any experienced attorney would have taken.”
WADR …
seems to me I remember another recent AG who f’d up a lot in that office, costing the Wastate lotsa dollars! Hmmm who was that? A lady I think!
@67 BBG
I don’t need your permission for anything. You aren’t worth the time it’d take to wipe the sweat off my ass you cretinous, vermin. You and Steve can to screwing each other, as you’re so obsessed with. Maybe he’ll be nice and let you “lead” this time, huh?
@68 Steve
Go back to blowing BBG and pretending that you actually matter in the scheme of things. Hope the drive through window wasn’t too tiring today… Actually, I take that back. I hope it was. How did it feel serving lots of people driving SUVs and knowing that you’ll never own anything more than the 30 year old junker that you drive? Guess it’s understandable that such a loser would come to someplace like this to vent. See what happens when you’re too dumb to make it through college?
@73 One of the challenges facing healthcare architects and engineers is the multitude of codes and Authorities Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) that are involved in any project. For instance, a hospital project in Bellevue will have to meet the City of Bellevue’s very specific requirements that are found in the city’s adoption and ammendments to the International Fire and Building codes. However, you also have our state DOH reviewing the same hospital project using very different NFPA codes, NFPA 99 and 101. The city will use the current version of NFPA 72, DOH an earlier edition. On the upside, DOH addresses CMS, so we don’t really have that to deal with. Still, we have to throw in JCAHO and their own take on 101. That leaves us with a very interesting mix of three different AHJ’s using different codes, all on the same project, all requiring compliance, consideration and, a lot of the time, resolution involving city, state and JCAHO. Heck, we could even throw in FM and call it four AHJ’s.
Just something I picked up at the drive-through window today. Geez, I wish I’d gone to school. Maybe I could have been really smart like you.
rhp6033@65:
Characterizing the shakedown as unseemly was flippant, I suppose, but it was a shakedown, nonetheless. The state went after the parties with deep pockets rather than the parties responsible for the indirect costs, which is unjust.
I mentioned a few posts back that I’m a classical liberal, a true liberal. I, therefore, hold that an individual is responsible for his own actions and their consequences or potential consequences.
Tobacco is a legal product. The hazards of its use have been available even before the Surgeon General’s Report of 1964. Warning labels were placed on cigarette packages in 1966. Irrespective of the labels, a person with any modicum of common sense, knows that smoking cigarettes, at least, is unhealthy.
An individual, therefore, should suffer the potential consequences and pay the potential price for his actions. I don’t believe the state has any role taxing everyone to pay for the real consequences of this unhealthy behavior. In fact, if every tobacco user faced the real consequences of their behavior, there would be a lot less of it.
Regarding cocaine, I believe it should be legalized along with every other outlawed drug. People who choose to use drugs are responsible for their own actions and should be prepared to face the potential consequences on their own. Drug use by others in and of itself doesn’t violate my rights.
Call me crazy, but I believe this principle could be extended in many ways to the benefit of us all. For example, if bankers knew they had to face the real consequences of lending money, if they knew the Fed or any other agency wouldn’t be available to bail them out, they would maintain real lending standards. Those banks who chose to risk money to dubious borrowers would face the consequences on their own along with the borrowers. If real lending standards had been in place recently, we wouldn’t face the overbuilt housing market today and the resultant consequences.
If we dismantled the FDA, which is co-opted today, people would pay serious attention to what food and drugs they bought and from whom. The fact is the FDA can’t protect us, as David can attest. Brands would truly have meaning. Knowing the FDA is gone, people would be less complacent.
I could go on and on.
You have responded to some of my recent posts in detail with respect, and I respect you. You have corrected some mistakes, refining some details, which I appreciate. Thank you.
@49 “The tobacco shakedown was unseemly.”
Not at all. Taxpayers have been subsidizing tobacco companies by paying for the health problems cigarets cause for generations. But, as a wingnut, I expect you to demand taxpayer subsidies for big bidness.
“By the way, how much MO do you hold?”
None, which was a mistake on my part, because MO not only pays a high dividend but has also gone up a lot. They’re doing quite nicely from selling cigs to unsuspecting Third World customers. And that’s before you count what the shareholders made from the spinoff of their foods division.
“Regarding Killinger, I was surprised at the support he received at the shareholders’ meeting.”
He must have voted his own stock (that he accumulated from stock options) in favor of himself. Apparently you forgot that when corporations vote, the 6 big shareholders always win and the 60 million little shareholders always lose. That’s how corporate democracy works.
“The shareholders of WM are similar to the Washington voters who voted for Gregoire in 2004.”
WM shareholders are justifiably angry about the (a) incompetence of WM’s management, (b) the fact Killinger got stock options and bonuses for losing massive amounts of money and shareholder equity, and (c) the fact Killinger will get a massive bonus if the company folds or is bought out, wiping out what little equity the shareholder have left.
As for the governor’s election, the “whiners” that Phil Gramm loves to talk about are Dino Rossi and his ilk, including you.
In the next installment of HA Comedy Hour, Luigi is going to remind us again how “liberal” he is.*
* It’s getting harder every day to find Republicans willing to admit they’re Republicans. At the rate the GOP’s approval ratings are dropping, soon even sex offenders will be more popular than they are!
@50 Mr. C’s day trading merely reaffirms what I’ve been saying all along, namely, that our national policies reward unproductive financial speculation and debase workers and the value of work, so why should anyone do any work or produce anything?
Luigi .. you need a dose of WWJD. (what would Jefferson do)
The problem with your thesis is that it assumes there is a magic hand and the effect of that five digited divinity is benign.
Just as we need seawalls and canals to control flooding we need public health and vaccines to control the misdeeds of the magic hand.
For example, we could let everyone decide for themselves whther their children would god to school. Of course within two generation none of us would want to live with the consquences of such a step or would you like that?
You also need to remember that corporate bosses are not paid to be entrepreneurs. They are paid to optimize profit during their term of service,
even if they bankrupt the company and force fure losses. Hell, you must have heard about thee arbitrage firms that take businesses apart for short term profits?
Oh yes, in the big picture the magic hand will take those profits and invest them where they will do the most good. Why would you believe that the hand always does good? What if the broker says, hay I am tired of this and goes and buys Ruwanda as a source of persoanl love slaves???
What would you do about a company that makes really neat pant but in doing so pollutes the river? I suppose the downstream farmers might sue Daddy Warbucks for damages?
AAS for cocaine, that is a very interesting point. Obviously , many folks use coke w/o harm. How would you control its misuse by brain surgeoins aor school buss drivers?
@53 Works for me! If I’m AG, we’ll have honest elections in this state, instead of the clusterfucks given to us by McKenna, Reed, and Satterberg.
Has anyone noticed that all 3 of WA’s most prominent elected GOP officials all have their fingers in election pies?
Good news iBurn – that big ugly bitch you call Mom – well she wants me to fuck her too – seems like you inherited a limp dick from your dad.
Sorry – you need to stop sending me private emails asking to suck my dick. Your wife and sister have already drained me. But hey – try well known child molester Marvin or CynCyn. They might give you some play. Or heck try Rossi – he’s republican so he’s probably in the closet.
@54 In case I may have overlooked it …
I-Burn is a treasonous, child-raping, goatfucking, commie-fascist girly-man.
@55 I have $5 that says Richard did better in law school than you did.* (For starters, he got in … )
* All wingnut bets must be paid into an independent escrow in advance to prevent welshing.
@59 I’ve met carrots smarter than you.
@65 “My only problem with the tobacco settlementwas that itIlet the tobacco industry off the hook too easily.”
Actually, that’s a real issue wingnuts could use against Gregoire if they wished, but for obvious reason they won’t. The tobacco settlement is classic American imperialism: The tobacco companies get to stay in business, the politicians get a trainload of money to spend, and Third World consumers pay for it.
@66 Oh yes, I want them to come after us with guns … (click-click)*
* Just kidding! Wingnut humor. The kind that gets Ann Coulter big applause.
I can hardly wait to hear Republican lawyers argue to a handpicked Republican judge in a handpicked Republican county that the next election should be overturned because the Republican attorney general and the Republican secretary of state fucked up …
@72 Are you referring to the Democratic AG who made billions of dollars for taxpayers off the tobacco companies? I’d vote for her again in a heartbeat! Remember the GOP attorney general before McKenna, Slade Gorton? All he ever did was wave a tomahawk at the Indians — and lose every case.
@73 That’s quite a bit of time you’re talking about, since you have such a big ass.
@75 ” … the parties responsible for the indirect costs, which is unjust.”
In Wingnut Land, that would refer to the poor immigrants working as convenience store clerks for minimum wage who actually sold the cigarets.
@84 Roger, what do you know? You’re a freakin senile, old coot. How are those “senior moments” going? Been back to 1953 yet? How was it?
Oh, and I’ll stack my education against yours any day, pal.
i burn @52 byebye is the one with pimles and wears a diaper so he does not shit on the floor
hey byebye why dont you put a couple of ice cubes in your mouth and cold cock someone.im sure your gonna like it.
@92 and you’ll LOSE asswipe.
#45:
Isn’t there a McDonald’s or a Starbucks you need to go picket? Or some sweaty third-world hellhole you need to get arrested in for inciting violence? Greenies. While I have many friends that have attended TESC and came away from it as reasonably normal humans, I can’t stand the “Don’t vote! You’re supporting The Man!” Greenies. Don’t say it isn’t so, I’ve seen it for myself.
Luigi @ 75: Okay, so I think I understand that you follow the philosophies of 19th century libertarians, somewhat after the Goldwater mode.
I can respect and understand that. I don’t agree with that, but it’s at least intellectually honest. At least it is, compared with current neo-con Republicanism which says it has one set of values, and then ignores those values completely once they get into power.
Question: does violating a permanent injunction open the poll workers (who would be physically handing out the ballots) to criminal charges?
The AG has sent out a legal letter basically slam dunking the parties and Dwight Pelz’s lacky Goldy: http://www.secstate.wa.gov/_as.....arties.pdf