Over on Slog, Josh Feit picks up on my post about a recent poll that showed substantial support for the Sound Transit/RTID $16.5 billion Roads & Transit package.
The numbers, about 61% in favor after a dose of messaging, are pretty positive, and so Goldy seems to be saying, everybody should stop complaining and fretting about a joint measure.
Hmm. I don’t think I seemed to be saying that, but Josh is a pretty good editor, so maybe I’m wrong. I thought I was only blowing holes in the common wisdom that the Roads & Transit package was politically DOA.
Like Josh, I’d prefer to see the transit components separated from the roads components so that I could vote for the former while douching the latter, but given political realities I’m not willing to scuttle transit improvements simply because I don’t like much of the roads package. On the other hand, Josh seems to be saying that the package is fatally flawed, whatever its current support at the polls:
Goldy’s contention that polling looks good doesn’t address my biggest fear—in fact, it confirms it: It’s going to pass, and we’re going to undo the benefits of voting for transit by simultaneously voting to expand roads.
Indeed, here’s the polling I’d like to see: light rail on its own and RTID on its own. I’d bet light rail would pass and RTID wouldn’t.
Well Josh, I’m not sure it provides much consolation, but the survey did indeed poll the individual components of the combined package, and for the most part, transit consistently out-polled roads. In fact, here are the top scoring components within the Sound Transit District:
Disagree with my analysis? Read the full poll results and topline summary for yourself. (Oh, and as it turns out, if you read the poll results from 2005 and 2006, voters have been pretty damn consistent.)
UPDATE (FYI):
The survey was conducted on behalf of Sound Transit to help evaluate the 8000 public comments generated through their public involvement process, and is intended to aid the Sound Transit Board’s deliberations as they finalize details of the Sound Transit 2 package. The survey was designed under a partnership with Evans McDonough and Moore Information, and with input from RTID consultants. Moore fielded the survey to 800 respondents within the Sound Transit district, which gives the survey a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percent.
Josh is as in touch with the average voter in this region as Dick Cheney is.
This thing is going to pass. All those folks priced out of Seattle and Bellevue want better transportation. They will get better roads, better buses, better light rail with this plan.
Interesting that improving 405 is only 4 points behind light rail to the eastside.
Shit, we already have thousands of empty buses clogging up the surface streets and freeways, and Comrade Sims hornswaggled the voters of FUKC to buy a few thousand more. So tell ya whut… let’s fill all those fucking empty buses with moonbat butts before we spend another fucking dime on mass transit. And until then, let’s pour some fucking concrete so The Producers can get where they need to be.
Also, every freeway should have a HOT lane that The Producers can buy into so we can get where we’re going and leave The Takers in the general purpose lanes where they belong since their time is of lower value. And yes, The Producers’ corporations will pick up the HOT lane usage cost.
Rabbit and Pope – Do you think Mike Nifong should be allowed to hide behind Prosecutorial Immunity, or should he pay a price for his reckless and intentional disregard for the rule of law?
Why don’t you tell us: a) who authorized the poll; b) who paid for the poll; and c) who helped prepare the questions.
One of the first at the top is known for honest research, even telling clients what they don’t want to know. The other has faced accusations of push polling in other states.
I’m just heading out to take a drive on all those new emergency fixes that we got for our 9.5 Billion dollar fix it all from last massive gas tax hike. It was going to take on the Viaduct, and 520.
What? Nothing done and 9.5 bil still going in…..not even a pot hole fixed!
Sounds like a reason to give them 16.5 bil more! NOT!
Joel @4,
Hmm. I just assumed it was conducted on behalf of Sound Transit and/or RTID. I’ll ask.
But the script is there, and it doesn’t look particularly biased to me. But then, I’m not a pollster.
Hey, I have a question for you gullible fucking global warming idiots…
How much does war contribute to global warming? Ya got all those heat belching and carbon producing airplanes and helicopters in the air. Every bomb that goes off makes a big fire. Shooting a rifle makes some heat. Ya got all those big nuke powered ships whose propulsion system is cooled with seawater.
I think you guys oughta make the case that war is bad for the environment, and thereby combine two of your kook causes into one.
You’re welcome.
(I crack myself up sometimes. It’s really amazing being me. Now watch somebody get all self righteous and make the case.) LMAO.
Joel @4,
The survey was conducted on behalf of Sound Transit to help evaluate the 8000 public comments generated through their public involvement process, and is intended to aid the Sound Transit Board’s deliberations as they finalize details of the Sound Transit 2 package. The survey was designed under a partnership with Evans McDonough and Moore Information, and with input from RTID consultants. Moore fielded the survey to 800 respondents within the Sound Transit district, which gives the survey a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percent.
The poll was done to by Evans McDonough, a largely Democratic firm, and Moore Info, a more big business Republican firm, jointly for the very reason of giving it credibility.
A few points:
The amount of spending Seattle would get out of RTID and ST2 is much less than how much taxes Seattle residents would pay. A huge amount of Seattle tax dollars would go to widening 405 and roads in Pierce and Snohomish Counties. The respondents weren’t told that, and that’s a big negative.
The survey lowballs how much tax would be taken out of the region. The amount of taxes collected, in the year collected, would be several multiples of $16.5 billion.
The respondents were not told that the projects promised voters could be reduced or eliminated after the vote.
Until the details of the actual measures are seen – including the financing provisions – these ST and RTID measures will remain nothing but pigs in pokes.
What’s a matter Joel. Doesn’t jive with your column you wrote for your billionaire freind John Stanton?
Why don’t you read the poll. Then tell us which question you think is biased. Looks pretty straight forward to me.
In reading over the questions, one thing struck me. Some of these things are already either in planning or under construction.
I don’t closely track individual traffic problems in King or Snohomish Counties, but from the Pierce County list:
Connecting light rail to Tacoma. Already announced.
Cross-base highway. Already announced. I noticed that as soon as this package was put together, the projected cost of SR 709 jumped from $289 million (2006) to $477 million (2007). The roads in heaven may be paved with gold, but asphalt will do nicely for the roads in Fort Lewis.
SR 162. A number of improvements were previously scheduled and money allotted for them until just recently. Then just this month, those projects were put off several years. Now this improvement is in the new Roads and Transit package as new funding. Huh?
A bit of research for King County gives me:
Light rail to Microsoft. Announced July 2006.
Mercer Street. Isn’t this construction already being funded by Seattle? I was under the impression that it had already started.
Snohomish County:
Light rail to Lynnwood. Already announced by Sound Transit within current funding.
What is with all this smoke and mirrors? Many of these projects have already been announced. In some cases, the cost estimates jumped dramatically just before this new package was announced, in others it appears that the amounts desired seem far out of line with the project being built.
The 520 floating bridge is the single largest project, but it seems that other projects that previously had funding available are now to be funded through new taxes. What happened to the original funding? Did someone empty the state bank account and head to Argentina?
@ 10
Money raised in each county must be spent in each county for RTID. Read the law my friend.
Seattle does quite well under RTID. Mercer Mess. Lander Street Overpass for buses. Spokane Street Viaduct. 520 HOV and Bike Lanes. Again read the plan http://www.rtid.org
Sound Transit’s finacial policies are even stricter. Seattle keeps all its money. And they get light rail to Northgate and beyond. And light rail across I-90. And guess what, that one is fully paid for by the east side.
You should read more and post less.
Hey John.
Stick with selling homes in Mason County.
You don’t have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to transportation.
News flash. These projects are expensive. They are big. There are multiple parts to each project. There are multiple funding partners involved in many cases (cities, counties, state, feds) Many projects were funded by the 2003 and 2005 gas tax increases, and the Roads and Transit plan builds off those. Ed Murray funded 1.5 billion on 405, this plan would close the gap between Renton and Bellevue.
Seattle has $30 million for design and ROW for the Mercer Mess. They don’t have construction money.
We can’t get light rail to Lynwood under existing taxes.
Go sell some more duplexes.
steve wrote: “Money raised in each county must be spent in each county for RTID.”
And there is going to be a huge net outflow of Seattle taxpayers’ dollars to East King County under RTID. Primarily for I 405 work. Seattle would be paying billions to help software engineers drive their BMW’s flat out from Mercer Island to Redmond. All you have to do is compare the amount of taxes that would be taken out of Seattle to where in the county RTID will spend them.
You need to stop acting like a cheerleader for RTID, and start looking at reality.
Household Finance
Thank you for proving my point good sir.
The Roads and Transit plan is financed by two tax sources. .8 excise tax on the value of your car and a .6 sales tax increase.
So that evil person you speak of who lives on Mercer Island and owns a BMW would pay $80 for every $10,000 of value. His $50,000 BMW would cost him $400 a year. I think you might owe him for your Mercer Mess project in Seattle.
And btw, I see a lot of Seattlelites driving their SUV’s over to those Microsoft jobs every day. The bridges I look at are congested both ways every day.
You as well should read more and post less. It can all be found here: http://www.rtid.org and http://www.soundtransit.org
That $400 bucks is a drop in the bucket toward the roads projects RTID would (only partially) fund in King County. You proved my point – a relativelly few really well off individuals benefit at the expense of many low and lower-middle class people.
It would make sense if these improvements were being funded by taxes on businesses, or progressive taxes like income or capital gains taxes, or if user fees (fares/tolls/gas taxes, etc) were paying for most of these kinds of projects. But NOOOOO – just hit the families with huge new sales taxes (and some MVETS).
The problem with “RTID and ST2” is that it would be a huge increase in the most regressive types of taxes, and what gets done directly benefits commuters (a group that by and large does not need more handouts from government).
What RTID and ST2 would do is transfer tens of billions out of the pockets of people – not businesses – to provide benefits to those few mostly well off individuals who choose profligate lifestyles. Who gets the direct benefits? Mostly those who will be driving SOV’s long distances on the Eastside, and from the Eastside to Seattle, and those who choose to live dozens or even scores of miles from where they work and who happen to live and work near terminals of ST’s rail lines.
Those who would pay the most by far – in terms of percentages of what little disposable income they have – are the poorest in our community. And the vast majority of them never will use the trains, and never will have their commute times reduced by improved roads like I-405 or SR 2 near Everett.
Plus, this whole RTID and ST2 thing still leaves the most important project – SR 520 – billions short. What taxes do you think should be raised to close that gap, steve? I sure don’t see any suggestions for closing that gap on the ST or RTID websites you linked to. What’s the idea – get people to vote for the shiny new train taxes, the slap even more sales taxes on them after November?
By King County council edict, 80% of all new transit service must serve KING COUNTY OUTSIDE OF SEATTLE.
And as far as I know, all new road projects would be outside of Seattle also.
Therefore, once again, Seattle, with 85% of transit ridership, would get nothing.
Wonder how the citizens would poll after being educated about that! Then try getting a straight answer about the Enron style accounting tricks KC uses to bleed transit taxes into the general fund.
@2 Isn’t your single-occupant SUV the moral equivalent of an empty bus?
@3 Notwithstanding prosecutorial immunity, their lawyers should take a hard look at Buckley v. Fitzsimmons, 509 U.S. 259 (1993), as there’s a damn good chance they can sue Nifong for remarks he made in his press conferences, if they can show he knew or should have known his remarks for false.
@3 (continued) … And every single one of those partisan hacks installed in U.S. Attorney jobs should also take a good long look at Buckley v. Fitzsimmons, because there’s a DAMN GOOD CHANCE they can be sued if they file phony vote-fraud cases against Democrats for political gain.
Mark @ 3
Professor John Banzhaf of George Washington University has an excellent analysis:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....e_legal_13
Basically, Mike Nifong doesn’t have immunity for the things he said at press conferences. Also, he doesn’t have immunity for tampering with the evidence — such as his directing of the picture lineups of only Duke lacrosse players, or his lying about or concealing DNA evidence.
Hopefully, the players will be able to sue Nifong somewhere other than heavily Democrat Durham County. Those folks, after all, elected Nifong. If they can get a fair trial, before a jury that isn’t all Democrat, Nifong should be liable for some major bucks.
Household finance is emberassing himself or herself
How is an excise tax regressive? the more valuable your car the more you pay.
the sales tax is for funding the transit improvements. sales tax is a traditional tax for transit improvements. Metro and Sound Transit are both funded by the sales tax.
and btw, businesses pay over 30 percent of sales tax. see the DOR esimates.
and there will be tolls on 520 and likely on I-90.
and there are fares for Sound Transit and Metro.
you claim few people will benifit. do you know how many trips are taken on the I-405 corridor every day? what about I-90 where light rail will be built? what about 520 where new HOV lanes, shoulders, and bike lanes will be built? What about light rail to Northgate? Still think only a few people will benifit from this plan. Have you read it yet?
You have a lot of strong opinions to go with your limited knowledge about transportation.
busdrivermike
probably is one of those Seattlelites that I see in their SUV’s everyday heading to their job at Microsoft.
85% of Seattle residents take the bus?? You are on crack my freind.
Seattle is the most car dependent city in the nation.
And if you actually would read the RTID/ST plan you would see a lot of projects in the city of Seattle.
Lander Street Overpass so buses don’t get stuck behind trains at the bnsf line
new transit lane on the Spokane Street Viaduct.
Mercer Mess improvements so it will be two way
Oh and that little 520 bridge that all those Seattlelites use everyday to go to thier jobs on the eastside
why can’t they just live closer to where they work like you tell all those suburban folks to do??
and my friend Household Finance
how do you know where sales tax originates from?
just because sales tax is collected in the City of Seattle doesn’t mean it comes from city residents.
last time I checked the downtown Nordstroms will take money from people who live in east King County and south King County too. And they will take the sales tax on top of the purchase as well.
Do you want to clarify your uneducated posts?
You make no sense.
Hey busdrivermike
maybe if you got out of your slow, stuck in traffic bus, you would see that Seattle gets a hell of a lot of light rail out of the ST/RTID plan. Light rail to Northgate and beyond and light rail acorss I-90 to the Overlake Transit Center. Oh and a street car from First Hill to the light rail station in the International District.
Other than that, ya you are right Seattle gets totally screwed.
Household Finance is a moron
” and those who choose to live dozens or even scores of miles from where they work”
HF can you spell affordable housing problem?
Ever hear the term “drive til you qualify”?
You think the people who clean the office building you work in in Seattle “choose” to live way the fuck out in Lake Stevens or Auburn?
You dumb shit, that is where they can afford to live.
Let me guess, you are doing your part for sustainability.
You live on a 10,000 sq foot lot in Laurelhurst and have a 95 Volvo that gets 16 mpg that you drive everyday 5 miles to your parking spot in downtown Seattle.
you should read the paper more often. There was a great story in the PI last week about the affordability issue in this region.
I love people who claim to be progressives but can’t pass up an opportunity to piss all over the working poor in our region.
Hey, Mark…you’ll be happy to know that mine is one moonbat butt that’s back on a bus seat more often than not…I live in Wedgewood and work at the southeast corner of Bridle Trails, and I FINALLY figured out a way to get to work with only one transfer that the wonderful Metro “trip planner” totally ignored. Of course, it involves getting on and off in Microsoft country, and I keep worrying that with my laptop-case-that-converts-to-a-rucksack I got at a trade show that says “SUN MICROSYSTEMS” on it, one of these days I’m going to get the shit beat out of me by a gang of option holders.
Now, lest you be too worried that I’ve become a complete traitor to the cause, I’ll still most likely be driving my 4500-pound hunk of Dee-Troit Iron to the office once a week or so. Sorry to say, it gets about 20 miles to to the gallon, so maybe you can drive your Hummer in second gear more to make up for my feeble attempt at commie terrorist fuel savings.
I do wonder if the folks who took the survey asked their subjects, “Would you be in favor of rebuilding the 520 bridge if after it was done it’d cost you a $10 toll to cross either bridge?”
The elephant in the living room that nobody seems to have taken notice of yet is that during the 520 construction, and afterwards with tolls like that, traffic through Bothell and Renton is going to suck donkey balls.
Might make it a little tougher to get to the Oklahoma Homophobes’ half-billion dollar basketball palace…
Ok, Steve, you have a point that I am not a transportation specialist.
I can read.
In June 2006, Sound Transit announced that it would be extending the light rail line to Lynnwood, and that they had a funding plan for it. This was long before the “Roads and Transit” package was under consideration.
Now we need to come up with additional funding, outside the Sound Transit budget and funding.
In addition, for reasons that have not yet been explained, a 7500 foot long floating bridge is going to cost well over four billion dollars, and we need more taxes to pay for that.
On top of that, a previously funded road project was postponed in December and is now on that same “Roads and Transit” list. We need more taxes to pay for it.
And Highway 709 seems to have become far more expensive between late 2006 and early 2007, so we need more taxes to pay for it.
Your comments seem to indicate that Seattle has spent thirty million dollars fixing the Mercer interchange, but has not turned a single spade of dirt. Why does the Monorail come immediately to mind?
There are bunches of issues like this, and even if we Democrats have a majority, I’m disinclined to simply trust them. I’ve seen too many government boondoggles, and we are not immune. Witness Senator Prentice, and her little half-billion dollar boondoggle in Renton. Witness the Seattle Monorail, which was a decent idea that seemed to have been highjacked by armies of bureaucrats to the point where millions of dollars were spent and nothing returned.
Maybe there are good reasons for all of these, but I notice that you aren’t providing many answers. You just seem to want me to quit asking the questions.
That makes me want to ask even more. It looks like someone is hiding something, so until I start seeing better answers, not only will I be voting against this, I’ll be actively campaigning against it. We’re talking about over $2000 in new taxes for every man, woman and child in Washington. Last time I checked, that’s a lot of money.
I’m from that generation that questions authority, and if I’m not satisfied with their answers, my answer is “no“.
Since you’re speaking as if you have more information than I do, start providing answers. If you don’t have those answers, then join me in asking the questions.
Maybe there are good answers, and I’m certainly willing to hear them, but “trust us” isn’t an answer that I will accept.
Oh, and just because I may think that a project is a good idea does not mean that I am willing to pay whatever the proponents want to spend. I expect value for my tax dollars.
John you are wrong again and uninformed again.
Seattle hasn’t spent 30 million on the Mercer Mess. They have 30 million from their recently passed street levy to conduct design and ROW. The roads and transit plan would fund construction.
If you pay attention to global material costs, and the cost of inflation from delaying projects because armchair transportation planners like you always have some other brilliant idea – it is not surprising that these projects are really expensive.
And they will only get more expensive.
Are the costs of all those houses you are selling down south going down?
“We’re talking about over $2000 in new taxes for every man, woman and child in Washington.”
So you went from a transportation planning expert to a finance expert.
First off the Roads and Transit plan is only for King, Pierce and Snohomish Counties. The voters in those counties will vote. And it will cost the average person about 1/10 of what you claim.
Steve
Again, you’re telling me to stop asking the questions and just trust the “experts”. Considering the track record of those “experts”, I decline.
Finances. It’s not a matter of higher mathematics to divide 16.5 Billion by the total population of Washington, currently around 8 million. My public school education tells me that this comes to a bit over two thousand. Oddly enough, my pocket calculator seems to agree with me.
Perhaps the wizards that came up with this plan have some magic way of moving that decimal place, but my math background only took me through trigonometry.
No, I am not saying that this will all come out of one year. I know that.
However, I also know that it was just last year when we were asked to pony up for a road and transit package that was supposed to solve many of these problems. It passed. I voted for it. Senility has not completely set in yet, so I remember it.
I also remember a number of the projects that the new plan is supposed to cover being touted by the folks promoting the last plan.
I ask why a 7500 foot long bridge, built using some of the least expensive bridge building techniques (floating pontoon bridge) cost over four billion dollars. Oddly enough, I do know a bit about the construction of long-lasting concrete tanks.
I ask why a highway going through a military base, over some of the flattest terrain in the area will cost almost a half-billion dollars, and why the projected cost jumped almost two hundred million dollars since last year.
I ask why previously funded highway projects in the Puyallup area were postponed by several years, then put into this package.
Mercer I do not know that much about. I presume from your post that the right of way has been purchased and that the planning is complete. If that is where the thirty million dollars went, fine. Then all that is left is actual construction costs. This is rather a “drop in the bucket” in this whole thing, but please remember, I’m asking questions here. One project out of the many on this list seems to check out. Good. There are probably reasonable answers for some of the others as well.
I want to hear them before I support this, and until they are forthcoming, I’m not voting for it. Since at least some of what I am hearing so far seems to be “smoke and mirrors”, I’m in opposition until those questions are answered to my satisfaction.
No, I’m not willing to just trust the experts here. Those same experts have given us the Seattle Monorail, battling Viaduct replacements, sports arenas that had to be replaced before their bonds were paid off, power plants that are still an embarrassment (and who came up with the name “Whoops” for a nuclear power agency anyway?) and enough other boondoggles that we could have a rather humorous book written about them that would be a best-seller in the other 49 states.
No, I’m not willing to just trust them. I am willing to listen. Considering their track record, I think that’s being pretty generous.
32 “Those same experts have given us the Seattle Monorail”
No, John. They took it away.
Who wants to enlighten me here? I’ve looked at the poll questions, wording of the allowed responses, and response tallies. This poll is hot off the presses. The poll was conducted 10 days ago.
The reason given for this poll is:
“The survey was conducted on behalf of Sound Transit to help evaluate the 8000 public comments generated through their public involvement process, and is intended to aid the Sound Transit Board’s deliberations as they finalize details of the Sound Transit 2 package.”
As an initial matter, the idea that a poll and poll results like this could help ST’s board make sound policy using 8,000 random comments on transportation matters is ludicrous.
Even weirder – no way should ST’s board be finalizing details of the ST2 ballot measure based on 8,000 random comments, this poll, or worst of all, 8,000 random comments viewed through the lens of these poll data.
What “details” of ST’s plan does the board think it needs to finalize at this late date. The election is set for Noveber. This poll should not influence ANY decision a board member is supposed to make.
If the board is expected to give any future policy guidance at this very, very late date to staff for the purposes of designing a ballot measure, then there are huge fundamental flaws with the process ST is using. That would mean ST is not nearly far enough along in drafting the proposal voters will be asked to approve. Last time a measure was rushed to the ballot it cost Seattle $150,000,000 in taxes down the loo.
The public’s perception of ST vs. Metro vs. RTID shouldn’t impact what the ST2 ballot measure states. Same thing with all the questions asked – none of them is something policy guidance to staff should be based on. Also, the board first was shown drafts of the ballot measure language only two weeks ago. The board is not supposed to “finalize details.”
If the board of ST actually uses this polling to try to grasp what 8,000 random transportation comments signify, and then apply what they “learn” to telling staff how to finalize details of the ST2 ballot measure, then we are looking at the mother of all messed-up public projects.
ArtFart
My point is that they gave us the monorail as we see it today. Millions of dollars spent, and we not only have nothing to show for it, but there never will be anything to show for it.
Disney can make a monorail work reliably with a reasonable budget. The “experts” cannot. I rather liked the monorail idea, but apparently so many folks got fingers in that pie that we have nothing except ongoing bond payments to show for it.
I like mass transit. The idea of getting on a light rail system in Tacoma and riding to the airport or downtown Seattle really appeals to me.
I recognize the need for roads and bridges. The population of our region is growing, and we need infrastructure to accommodate that growth.
I also recognize that government does not have some magic wand that it can wave to make these things appear without any cost to me.
All that being said, I should be easy to convince. There will be people in opposition to this that have ulterior motives. Folks that want to scuttle any sort of mass transit. Other folks that want to stop building roads and bridges completely.
My only motive here is that I insist that my tax dollars be spent effectively. If a one billion dollar bridge will do the job, I don’t want to spend over four. If a quarter billion dollar highway will meet the need, I see no reason to spend double that. If the current Sound Transit funding scheme will provide light rail from Tacoma to Lynnwood, then I see no reason to spend more.
If they can’t even convince me, what chance do they have of convincing the voters when the Speakers Roundtable and EFF put themselves into high gear, reminding the voters that we have already passed one tax increase that was supposed to handle these problems?
35 You’re absolutely right.
Disney is able to build monorails quickly and easily because they’re still using the basic Alweg design from the 1950’s. That’s what our existing World’s Fair monorail is based on as well. As a matter of fact, when the Alweg company was dissolved (don’t recall exactly, but I think it had something to do with the breaking up of Krupp over Nazi war crimes), Seattle wound up with the complete design documentation, a bunch of extra parts, and even some of the tooling. Evidently, much of that has been lost over the years, as witnessed by how slow and expensive the repairs have been after the last couple of accidents. So instead of recycling the technology we already had, we seem to have gone to extraordinary lengths to justify re-inventing the whole thing. Lots of stuff about how there’s so much “last-century technology” in the heart of the beast, and how essential it is to make the towers and guideways a little smaller to appease property owners along the right of way, blah-blah-blah. So what’s so remarkably “advanced” about the new Sound Transit light rail compared with the old waterfront streecars? Methinks not much. Oh, yeah…they probably have something that makes some hip new electronic noise instead of the old air horn.
ArtFart:
It really is depressing, because many of the folks arguing against the monorail would simply point to Disney World and say that we don’t need a “carnival ride”.
That monorail system has been working reliably for many years, and was originally intended as a demonstration project. The technology is both proven and inexpensive.
But because the Seattle Monorail project was such a boondoggle, with everyone trying to get a piece of the pie, with costs that spiraled out of control and no accountability for anything, it didn’t just fail, it also “poisoned the well” so that nobody around here will ever take the idea seriously again.
I like mass transit. In using it, I expect a clean, safe, comfortable seat that moves my rear end from point A to point B. I really don’t care if the technology is from 1960, as long as I get to my destination.
Heck, if it works quickly and comfortably, I don’t care if it’s pulled by a horse.