The day of the London bombings I asked how the war on terror was going, and few of you responded just fine… with the single caveat that it would be going even better if I were to somehow fall victim to it. Heartwarming. Conventional MSM wisdom (such as it may be) seemed to say that Americans would rally to President Bush in the aftermath of the London attacks… and one of my righty regulars even suggested that public support for Bush’s policies would increase “ten fold.”
Well, excoriate me as a coward, appeaser and traitor if you want, for questioning U.S. policy in Iraq and elsewhere, but it turns out a majority of Americans share my concerns. According to a Wall Street Journal/NBC poll taken in the days following the attack, Bush’s job approval rating has dropped to its lowest level in over a year, with respondents disapproving of the President’s performance by a 49% to 46% margin.
Even worse for Bush, only 41% of respondents agreed that Bush was “honest and straightforward” — his lowest rating since becoming president, and a drop of nine percentage points since January. I guess that’s what happens when you constantly lie to the American people. And get caught.
Remember, this is no liberal gotcha poll… this the Wall Street Journal, the flagship of the right-wing press. And the poll was conducted just before the Karl Rove allegations exploded in the MSM, so the current controversy isn’t even represented in Bush’s sagging honesty ratings.
Interestingly, support for the President is eroding faster than support for the Iraq War. By a 57% to 42% margin, respondents say it is important to maintain a military presence in Iraq until we finish the job… whatever that may be. Yet Americans disapprove of Bush’s handling of the war by a 55% to 39% margin. Clearly, Americans are starting to question the administration’s honesty about, and execution of the war. And that leaves me in good company.
Goldy: “Wall Street Journal, the flagship of the right-wing press”
Are you willing to admit that the NY Times is the flagship of the left-wing press? Or does bias only apply in one direction?
Mark-
Angling to take over the title of “Mr. Irrelevent”?
I fail to understand why impeachment proceedings have not started. It should be clear to all by now that there were NO weapons of mass destruction, and that Bushy was just cleaning up after papa Bush.
The President Said
“…The hard fact is that so long as Saddam remains in power, he threatens the well-being of his people, the peace of his region, the security of the world. The best way to end that threat once and for all is with a new Iraqi government — a government ready to live in peace with its neighbors, a government that respects the rights of its people. Bringing change in Baghdad will take time and effort. We will strengthen our engagement with the full range of Iraqi opposition forces and work with them effectively and prudently.
The decision to use force is never cost-free. Whenever American forces are placed in harm’s way, we risk the loss of life. And while our strikes are focused on Iraq’s military capabilities, there will be unintended Iraqi casualties. Indeed, in the past, Saddam has intentionally placed Iraqi civilians in harm’s way in a cynical bid to sway international opinion. We must be prepared for these realities. At the same time, Saddam should have absolutely no doubt if he lashes out at his neighbors, we will respond forcefully. Heavy as they are, the costs of action must be weighed against the price of inaction.
If Saddam defies the world and we fail to respond, we will face a far greater threat in the future. Saddam will strike again at his neighbors. He will make war on his own people. And mark my words, he will develop weapons of mass destruction. He will deploy them, and he will use them. Because we’re acting today, it is less likely that we will face these dangers in the future…”
Do you agree?
Remember, this is no liberal gotcha poll… this the Wall Street Journal, the flagship of the right-wing press.
And if the poll had said that Bush was favored by 90% of the people, would you have given it any credence? You seem to only like what teh WSJ reports as long as it fits your ideology.
But since you are such a fan of the WSJ, you should know what they are saying about the Karl Rove democrat whine-fest:
http://opinionjournal.com/edit.....=110006955
For picture of pbj click here http://www.fotosearch.com/bigc.....br0013.jpg
My 2 Cents, no, I do not agree.
The key thing about American voters is they are very patient and give their leaders the benefit of doubt for a long time, but once their trust is lost it can never be regained.
Moreover, the collapse of public support tends to happen with lightning speed. Nixon’s presidency unraveled in days.
Bush may well be standing on the lip of a precipice. If a time comes when congressmen of his own party sense his inevitable doom, they will not hesitate to impeach him to save their own skins.
rujax206 @ 2: “Angling to take over the title of ‘Mr. Irrelevent’?[sic]”
No. I’ll let you keep that one.
Addendum to 6
P.S., pbj is the one in pink tights.
@ 4
No
Thanks, Goldy!!
Exposing the “righties” with the light of truth is exactly how we’ll get this country back on track.
You’re efforts are truly appreciated.
You’re a Great American, unlike that lying Sean Hannity!
You know what I like best about this poll? Not that Bush is losing the hearts and minds of the American public. But, no conservatives are trumpeting Bush’s apporval ratings like they have in the past.
Bush has a track record of failed leadership everywhere he’s been.
GBS @ 12: “Exposing the “righties” with the light of truth is exactly how we’ll get this country back on track.”
Yeah… the track that runs the train right off the cliff.
Ny 2 cents @ 4.
No. I don’t agree. We now know it was no slam dunk, and that Bush was on the wrong side of history. No WMD’s, no yellow cake, no chemical belts around Baghdad, no WMD development programs, no enrichment tubes.
Saddam Hussein was NOT going ot attack any neighbors while the top 1/3 and bottom 1/3 of his country was a FRIGGIN’ no fly zone with US WAR planes patrolling that air space EVERY DAY!!
Do you honestly believe he was going to “surprise” anyone an mass military forces on his neighbors borders without getting the living shit blown of of them? C’mon. Face reality. Saddam was cotained, that’s why his WMD programs collapsed and so did his army when we invaded.
So, NO, your comments are not worth your blog name.
Mark @ 14
I understand that the right is angry, but your comment has no merit and lacks thought.
The track President Clinton had us on wiped out the the largest federal defecit in history, created the largest federal budget i history, and created 22 million jobs.
Yeah, that’s the track I want to be on.
PacMan
I know you’re in the “read only mode.” But do you have any comments?
Correction to my post @ 16
It should have read that President Clinton “created the largest federal surplus in history”
4) I smell a trap… Clinton right?
You know what else is SAD about the right. Is they are already planning to lay low on the Rove issue until Bush nominates a very divisive SCOTUS judge so this will blow over in the MSM.
The President is deliberately plotting his next divisive move to cover his failings.
Shameful.
RR @10
“P.S., pbj is the one in pink tights.”
Don’t you mean:
“P.S. — IT’S PEANUTBUTTERJELLYTIME
peanutbutterjellytime!”Hmmm. . . where are all the right wind troglodytes today? Seems awfully quiet.
In particular, I’m wondering where in the HELL is prr hiding?
I see now. HIS colors do run (pee-pee, coward yellow, that is)
One would also have to consider that a portion of the 55% who disapprove of the President’s handling of the war, believe that we should be turning a lot of sand into glass. In other words, the 55% does not wholly consist of the anti-war clan.
Geo –
Well I will give you this, you don’t seem to have the fixation on carnal acts as do the others. Didn’t you get enough for lunch?
GBS @ 15 Exactly right. As long as Saddam was in a box, he was going nowhere. It also seems to point out that you cannot “impose” freedom on people, the people themselves must fight for it. So what do we do now? Bow out as quickly and as gracefully as possible, and tend to our own business. And Bush’s best bet is to resign now, before we run him out of office.
BF @ 23 ? And exactly how do you arrive at that conclusion? You cannot spin this in any direction except as a total failure for the Bush administration. And the disapproval rating will get alot higher very soon.
Mark@1,
Are you willing to admit that the NY Times is the flagship of the left-wing press? Or does bias only apply in one direction?
No need to ask, the New York Times itself answered with a resounding YES!!!
I refer you to the July 25,2004 editorial by NYT Public Editor Daniel Okrent.
Here is the link, but unless you signed up for the site (free) then you won’t be able to see the story:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07.....oref=login
“I’ll get to the politics-and-policy issues this fall (I want to watch the campaign coverage before I conclude anything), but for now my concern is the flammable stuff that ignites the right. These are the social issues: gay rights, gun control, abortion and environmental regulation, among others. And if you think The Times plays it down the middle on any of them, you’ve been reading the paper with your eyes closed.”
Well compared to Fraudoire, Bush has nothing to worry about. She is at only 38% approval.
http://www.surveyusa.com/50Sta.....ly2005.htm
BF @23,
Yes, and no doubt a large portion of the 57% who support maintaining a military presence in Iraq, are people who opposed the war, but belong to the “you break it, you buy it” camp. I’m pretty nearly in the camp, as I strongly opposed the war, but believe it will be problematic to pull out at this point. We have a responsibility to the Iraqi people to keep their country from descending into permanent chaos in the aftermath of our war.
Look everyone, there they go again. Deflecting blame away from the President’s failures. Even bringing the Governor of Gregoire into the discussion.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say a thousand times more; you know you’re winning the debate with a conservative when they attempt to reframe the debate, toss out red herrings, draw irrelevant
comparisons to past events, or resort to the name calling.
Bush is failing at being the president like he has done at every other executive position he’s ever held.
A track record of miserable failure, what did you Republicans expect when you voted for him?
“…And mark my words, he will develop weapons of mass destruction. He will deploy them, and he will use them…”
candrewb – Yes the above and #4 are Clinton in a prime time speech to the country.
Yep, now Bush is floating the idea of cut-n-run to save republican seats in congress next year.
With all the spewing Bush did of how LONG it would take when we invaded Iraq, that building a democoracy is long, hard work, now all of a sudden he thinks that right before the November elections he can draw down our forces to 66,000 soldiers and prevent Iraq from descending into civil war and chaos?
Oh yeah, that will fail spreading democoracy in the middle east.
2 cents – The huge difference you can’t seem to wrap your mind around is that Clinton did NOT invade Iraq. He knew that Saddam was in the box and not coming out. Bush did invade Iraq. And lied about it to do so. And punished those who would not help him propogate the lie. And continues to lie. All punishable by impeachment.
JUDGE DISMISSES LAWSUIT AGAINST MICHAEL MOORE
A federal judge today dismissed a libel suit against filmmaker Michael Moore by James Nichols, brother of Oklahoma City bomber Terry Nichols. Nichols sued Moore for making statements linking him to bomb-making activities. The judge concluded Moore’s statements about James Nichols were true.
Guess what 2 cents.
President Clinton speech in 1998 was wrong, too. The difference is he didn’t commit the US to a mismanaged war that killed 1,760 American soldiers, mutilated 12,000 and lost $8.8 billion dollars of US tax payer dollars to war profiteering.
Bush on the other hand had Joe Wilson telling him there were no yellow cake sales, UN weapons inspectors on the ground telling him there were no WMD’s and the British knew he was fixing the facts around the policy.
Again, nice try to deflect blame from where it squarely belongs, at the feet of Bush. You see, rearview mirror thinking like that of conservatives is exactly why we are in the mess we are now.
What’s Bush’s vision for fixing the problems he created? Cut-n-run next summer so he can keep as may repub seats in congress as possible.
PeanutButterJellytime @24
hmmm, I could be suffering from low blood sugar… holy cow, that would mean you are actually right about something for once!
You know why Bush wants to keep a majority in the house?
Can you say “Impeachment?”
Uh-huh, I knew you could.
APB on PBJ!!
If anyone sees PBJ will you please pass along this message. Thanks.
PBJ
Are you going to answer my challenge on the “Dems to introduce Resolution of Inquiry into Plame’s outing” thread? Posts 60-64
Thanks,
GBS
reply@33,
huge difference you can’t seem to wrap your mind around is that Clinton did NOT invade Iraq.
The difference you don’t seem to understand is that we got our asses kicked under CLinton. WHile he was getting his felacio, Americans were getting killed. Bin Laden thought America was a bunch of wussies like Clinton . Khobar towers, African Embassies, 1`993 WTC bombing, the USS Cole. After 911, Democrats wanted to call inspector gadget and offer therapy – Republicans wanted to kick butt!
GBS@30,
Look everyone, there they go again. Deflecting blame away from the President’s failures. Even bringing the Governor of Gregoire into the discussion.
This thread is about poll numbers. Brining up the poll numbers of a failed fraud like Gregoire gives us a good comparison..
I’ve said it once and I’ll say a thousand times more; you know you’re winning the debate with a conservative when they attempt to reframe the debate, toss out red herrings, draw irrelevant
comparisons to past events, or resort to the name calling.
That is what liberals do. Or do I need to count up all the name calling that has gone on here? It certainly hasn’t been the Republicans dropping all those F-bombs around here. Maybe iof you Democrats (like Clinton) didn’t alway have your mind on carnal acts and the f-bomb, you wouldn’t get impeached for being criminals! Oh, but I was changing the subject. After all we shouldn’t bring up the trading of crack for fraudulent voter registrations every time the whiny Democrats bring up Ohio in 2004 – oh no. ANd by all menas never ever mention the members of the Democrat party that were arrested, tried and CONVICTED – oh no. That might be fair and balanced – we cannot have that in crazy America hating lefty land.
Bush is failing at being the president like he has done at every other executive position he’s ever held.
In your dreams. Under Bush we have put the terrorist bases in Afghanistan out of order (Despite Democrat opposition to Afghanistan and a response to 911) and now there is a Democracy in Afghanistan. In Iraq we freed 25 million people and a Democracy is flowering there too. Democrats predicted the elections in Iraq could never happen. But the brave Iraqi people withstood suicide bombers to vote! The cedar revolution happened in Lebanon largely due to the example set by the Iraq elections. For the first time in decades, the Syrian Army no longer controls Lebanon.
The economy is humming along with unemployment lower than when Clinton was in office and home ownership higher too. Interest rates are no longer 21% that we saw under Jimmy Carter and they are even better than those under Clinton too!
A track record of miserable failure, what did you Republicans expect when you voted for him?
No, that is what we expect when the Democrats get in office. Bush has done very well while in office.
The competition for most preposterous lie GW ever told is steep, but I’d nominate my personal favorite: “I’m a uniter, not a divider.” He sure has brought us all together, hasn’t he?
GBS@32,
Yep, now Bush is floating the idea of cut-n-run to save republican seats in congress next year.
He won’t cut-n-run. That is what Democrats do. Bush will only bring troops home when the Iraqi Army is capable of handling the situation. After having trained over a hundred thousand troops, it is understandable that perhaps they can take over a city or two. I know that a free and Democratic Ira just sticks in your craw because it goes against everything that Howard Dean want you to think. The Democrats are wrong now, just as they were wrong when they went around predicting 100,000 AMERICAN casualties during the invasion.
With all the spewing Bush did of how LONG it would take when we invaded Iraq, that building a democoracy is long, hard work, now all of a sudden he thinks that right before the November elections he can draw down our forces to 66,000 soldiers and prevent Iraq from descending into civil war and chaos?
Well watch and see what happens. So far, all the Democrat prediction have been ded wrong. Prediction: 100,000 dead on invasion. REALITY: Less than 100 killed. Prediction: Iraqi elections cannot happen. REALITY: Iraqi elections DID happen. PREDICTION: The Sunnis that boycotted the election would never join the government. REALITY: The Sunnis saw that they were wrong to boycott progress and now are participatin in Democracy.
pbj @ 42 So you are saying a totally illegal war, that Bush lied about to get us into, is going well? Sorry, not that much spin in the world. I know Bush has tried to spin it that way, by not allowing news media at the hangar when the body bags come back. And by punishing anyone who disagrees with him. The reality is, no matter how long we stay in Iraq, the day we withdraw, a Saddam look alike will take it back. You only need to look at history to know that our record for “installing” governments is pretty dismal: Vietnam, Cambodia, Phillipines, Haiti, Cuba, most Central American governments, the Shah of Iran, (need I continue?) Do you think this one will be any different?
pbj – and when we finally impeach AND CONVICT Bush, you can come back on here and apologize.
reply@35,
President Clinton speech in 1998 was wrong, too. The difference is he didn’t commit the US to a mismanaged war that killed 1,760 American soldiers, mutilated 12,000 and lost $8.8 billion dollars of US tax payer dollars to war profiteering.
The difference is that CLinton never went after the terorrists. That is why the hijacking school at Salmon Pak was left intact in Iraq. That is why Al Zarqawi was able to run to Iraq as a safe haven from fighting us in Afghanistan. That is why Abbu Abbas- the terrorist who killed Leon Klinhoffer in 1988 was able to get safe haven in Iraq. That is why after 911, Saddam’s son Uday published a call to attack America everywhere. I know dead Americans don’t matter to Democrats unless they are good for a photo op but those that Clinton killed on the USS Cole mattered. Those he underequipped in Somalia mattered.
And Democrats have some nerve to talke about a long war. What about Kosovo? We STILL have troop there even though liar Clinton told us they would be home in 6 months. What is it now ? More than 5 years? Democrats in charge of national scurity is like French nationa security- national surrender.
Bush on the other hand had Joe Wilson telling him there were no yellow cake sales, UN weapons inspectors on the ground telling him there were no WMD’s and the British knew he was fixing the facts around the policy.
Joe Wilson is a liar. He first claimed that Cheney had sent him to Niger and then denied his wife had anything to do with him going there. Then he was an official part of the Kerry campaign. He is just a disgruntled partisan hack who is getting 5 more minutes in the spotlight.
Again, nice try to deflect blame from where it squarely belongs, at the feet of Bush. You see, rearview mirror thinking like that of conservatives is exactly why we are in the mess we are now.
Hmm 4.6% interest rates, not 21%, 5% unemployment not 8%, more home ownership not less, Democracy in Afhganistan, Democracy in Iraq, Syrain Army out of Lebanon, Libya disarmed of its nukes without firing a shot.
Man, if that is a mess, please give me more!
fire@44,
pbj – and when we finally impeach AND CONVICT Bush, you can come back on here and apologize.
That is pretty big talk for someone whose party is in the MINORITY and by the way they are out of the mainstream of America, will stay that way for a long long time.
I will betcha $20 Bush will never be impeached.
pbj @ 39
“we got our asses kicked under CLinton.”
Well, if we look at the numbers, it ain’t looking so good for Shrub—even if you discount many of the deaths in Iraq.
“Bin Laden thought America was a bunch of wussies like Clinton.”
Oh???? What is your evidence for that? In fact, Clinton formed, from scratch an extremely aggressive anti-terrorism strategy. Keep in mind that Bush Sr. had no anti-terrorism policy whatsoever, so Clinton developed one from scratch. For example, following Khobar in April 1996, Clinton put together a new $1 billion conterterrorism package and got the packgae passed by October. Clinton created the first “terrorism Czar” (formally titled the National Coordinator for Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Counterterrorism), published three significant presidential directives (PDD 62, “Counterterrorism and Protection of the Homeland”–sound familiar?; PDD 63; and PDD 67).
Clinton was far more engaged in counterterrorism than Bush ever was until 9/11, which is too bad, because if Bush had been thinking about terrorism instead of trimming shrub on the ranch, he might have prevented 9/11.
Geo@36,
hmmm, I could be suffering from low blood sugar… holy cow, that would mean you are actually right about something for once!
Well that explains your rambling. Got get something to eat.
reply@37,
Can you say “Impeachment?”
Uh-huh, I knew you could.
Despite your bitterness at the lack of honesty from your crooked president who WAS impeached for his crime of LYING under oath, you will get no such satisfaction for Bush. He doesn’t do that.
GBS @ 16: “The track President Clinton had us on wiped out the the largest federal defecit in history, created the largest federal budget i history, and created 22 million jobs.”
The only jobs Clinton (or any other President, for that matter) creates are the cushy and/or influential ones for big donors. SMALL BUSINESS creates the vast majority of jobs. And Clinton’s economic situation was greatly inflated by speculators and the tech bubble, which burst at the end of 2000 (before Bush could have any influence on it — good or bad). Hot stock market makes people optimistic and they spend, spend, spend — which means taxes come rolling in. The problem arises when the pigs at the trough (gov’t.) get so used to spending levels, they can’t imagine anything less than what they were spending in boom times.
fire@43,
pbj @ 42 So you are saying a totally illegal war, that Bush lied about to get us into, is going well? Sorry, not that much spin in the world. I know Bush has tried to spin it that way, by not allowing news media at the hangar when the body bags come back.
You sick bastard! Think about the families of the soldiers. Perhaps they don;t want you using their loved ones for your political stunts to divide this nation in time of war.
Was anyone allowed to photograph the flag draped coffins of the USS Cole sailors coming home? NO.
And by punishing anyone who disagrees with him.
No one has been punished because hey disagreed with him. This is all in your head.
The reality is, no matter how long we stay in Iraq, the day we withdraw, a Saddam look alike will take it back. You only need to look at history to know that our record for “installing” governments is pretty dismal: Vietnam, Cambodia, Phillipines, Haiti, Cuba, most Central American governments, the Shah of Iran, (need I continue?) Do you think this one will be any different?
You look at the wrong examples. Look at Japan, Germany, Italy, Phillipines, Eastern Europe.
So you are saying a totally illegal war, that Bush lied about to get us into, is going well?
The only illegal war was Clinton’s Kosovo adventure which we STILL have not left to this day. Remember it was only going to be 6 months for that ILLEGAL unauthorized war? Funny that no liberals protested Clinton. Could it be that Democrats are so partisan during a time of war they only attack the president when it is the opposition party in power? Could the Democrats be THAT petty, putting partisan gain ahead of national security?
YES!!!!!!!!!!!
reply@41,
The competition for most preposterous lie GW ever told is steep, but I’d nominate my personal favorite: “I’m a uniter, not a divider.” He sure has brought us all together, hasn’t he?
Well, if the bitter losers from the election would stop trying to divide us, perhaps we could be united. Bush is just one man. even if he put a bullet through his head, you liberals would whine about it. The problem is the divisivenss of the liberals. Lord knows Bush has tried to reach out to you but you keep on scheming on ways to stab him in the back. How can you unite with a rabid dog?
pbj @ 51
“Lord knows Bush has tried to reach out to you but you keep on scheming on ways to stab him in the back. “
That’s a good one. Bush has been a “no compromise” asshole since day one.
Good lord, the mental sommersaults the wingers have to go through to reassure themselves. Ask an average joe whether their situation was better under Clinton or under Bush. Somehow you’ve convinced yourselves that deficits are preferable to surpluses, war is preferable to peace, and incompetence is preferable to intelligence. Would be absolutely comical if I didn’t have to go on your screwed up joyride with my country.
Reply@38,
If anyone sees PBJ will you please pass along this message. Thanks.
PBJ
Are you going to answer my challenge on the “Dems to introduce Resolution of Inquiry into Plame’s outing” thread? Posts 60-64
Thanks,
GBS
Are you ever going to provide sources or are you just going to continue to make stuff up? So far you haven’t provided your link. You give a half completed quote and won’t provide the link. Could it be because you know that if you gave the link it would prove you wrong??
Bush lied. Thousands died. The widows know. But you won’t face them. Neither will Bush. Won’t go to ONE funeral. What a coward. And a liar. Oh, and by the way, why hasn’t he fired Rove? He promised to. Oh well, he is, after all, a liar. I suspect he will try to pull troops out in time for the election, so he can have a grand parade for the troops. He is a clever little guys when it comes to in-fighting and politics. So can you explain what the heck we are doing in Iraq?
Clinton lied, millions died. Mothers cried while their daughters in Africa died from genocide. This is the truth from which Democrats hide.
pbj – I would like to tell you that I disagree with Bush’s Africa policy ….. but he doesn’t have one. More are dying now than ever before. Perfect breeding grounds for extremists of every type. Bush is too busy with Iraq. (why are we there again?)
Reply to 56
pbj, it’s safe to say that if Clinton had intervened in Rwanda to stop the genocide there, right wingers would have screamed bloody murder — as they did when Clinton stopped a genocide in Kosovo without a single American combat fatality. Then the right wingers turned around and used humanitarian intervention to justify the U.S. invasion of Iraq after Bush’s WMD lies fell apart. You guys take the cake for lying and hypocrisy.
pbj – Oh, why the heck are we in Iraq again?
Comment on 51
If there was a prize for bullshit, pbj would win it. Bush wants to reach out to liberals all right — to dictate terms of surrender. Well we ain’t in a surrendering mood, asshole. Bush and his neo-Nazis play no-holds-barred, no-negotiations, no-compromises, dirty politics and you have the balls to accuse US of dividing the country? Pbj, if you want to see want an America-hating traitor looks like, look in a mirror.
pbj,
I am just curious. Do you get paid to post here by the word, by the comment, or are you paid by the hour?
WASHINGTON – The top policy adviser to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld says the Bush administration erred by building its public case for war against Saddam Hussein mainly on the claim that he possessed banned weapons.
“Our intelligence community made, apparently, an error, as to the stockpiles” of weapons it assured President Bush existed in 2003, Feith said. Thus that part of the administration’s argument for why war was necessary was overdone, he said, adding, “Anything we said at all about stockpiles was overemphasis, given that we didn’t find them.”
So, what they are saying is, “We lied. Now that you found out we lied, we admit that we made a mistake by lying.”
We have really got to impeach this guy. Only way to do that is to regain the House and Senate in the upcoming elections, because as long as the Republicans are in charge, nothing will happen.
Worst.President.Ever.
Comment on 62
Problem is, Bush also is lying about deficits, Social Security, global warming, drug prices, and just about anything else he’s ever opened his mouth about.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, Bush lied about who would get the benefit of his tax cuts.
“In popularity among the governors, according to Survey USA. Her July ratings (38 percent approve, 52 percent disapprove) show that she is in a hole”>>>
Seems to be doing better than Gregoire and Bush has had 5 years to piss people off!
dj @47
Clinton was far more engaged in counterterrorism than Bush ever was until 9/11, which is too bad, because if Bush had been thinking about terrorism instead of trimming shrub on the ranch, he might have prevented 9/11.
Um, 8 months for Bush to be “focused” on terrorism? Please, dj, get real. While I agree that Clinton was a good president based on the (economic) numbers, I don’t think there is really any bearing on Bush II. Indeed, I am more interested in present day results. One can claim much from the war we are mired in (yes, I said it), but Goldy remains very close to correct @29.
Donna@63-
You really know how to turn a phrase! Nicely done.
There’s gonna be dancin’ in the streets (mostly me, probly’) when the indictments start comin’ down. This shitstorm is gonna rain on the Cheney/Rove machine for at least a decade (please let it be so). Which will be about the amount of time we’ll need to clean up this mess they’re makin’.
Ya know Boss Tweed, Tricky Dick, and Lee (the snake) Atwater are surely looking up and wondering…how did such a good bunch of boys ef up again. “We told them exactly what to do…all those late,late nights in Cheney’s secret compound with Karl, Scotty, Dickie, chimpy, Jeff Gannon (and his special lube) all that booze, all that blow and the Oija board. Here are all the ways it can go south, we said…don’t let the press out of their cage, we said. Remember when Segretti tried to set that boy scout Scoop Jackson up with a prostitute in Portland in ’71 and got caught with a Half-Million Dollars…DON’T DO THAT, either! And deny, deny, deny, deny, and change the subject, and deny, deny, deny, deny, and change the subject again. Now look at these poor SOB’s…Tricky Dick is laughing his ass off ’cause he knows what’s coming down on ’em. The American people will put up with a lot. But when they turn on you…you are effed. And when you end up here…well you are really……..).
fire_one @63
“Our intelligence community made, apparently, an error, as to the stockpiles”
So, what they are saying is, “We lied. Now that you found out we lied, we admit that we made a mistake by lying.”
Er, no. What they said was: “Our intelligence community made, apparently, an error, as to the stockpiles” and what you decided on, as the paraphrase, at least, was “We lied Now that you found out we lied, we admit that we made a mistake by lying.”
I don’t think this rises to the impeachable offense, but you obviously think otherwise…
dj @47
“Clinton was far more engaged in counterterrorism than Bush ever was until 9/11, which is too bad, because if Bush had been thinking about terrorism instead of trimming shrub on the ranch, he might have prevented 9/11.”>>>
The only reason that the twin towers didnt come down on Clintons watch was they didnt bring in enough explosives…so WTF did Clinton do? Oh thats right, a blowjob! Very counterterrorist of him!
Since this thread is all about polls, here is another one I think you’d all enjoy:
Poll finds Muslim support for bin Laden waning
In heavily Islamic countries, support for terror attacks on Americans drops
WASHINGTON – Support for Osama bin Laden and terrorist bombings against Americans and their allies in Iraq is falling in several heavily Muslim countries, particularly those where terrorist attacks have occurred.
You can read the entire story here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8569229/
So. This appears to contradict the liberal dogma.
Roger the Dodger@66,
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, Bush lied about who would get the benefit of his tax cuts.
BS. I got a tax cut and so did everyone who held a job. Remember those $300 check you got a while back? How soon you forget. Oh, you are a Democrat – you probably don’t work. Sorry dude.
@47,
Clinton was far more engaged in counterterrorism than Bush ever was until 9/11, which is too bad, because if Bush had been thinking about terrorism instead of trimming shrub on the ranch, he might have prevented 9/11.
Well, if Clinton’s getting our asses kicked in Somalia, USS Cole, and the African Embassies being blown up, then I’d wish he wouldn’t have done anything. He was to cowardly to get Bin Laden when handed him of a silver platter.
dj@53,
That’s a good one. Bush has been a “no compromise” asshole since day one.
He offered to work with Democrats but they wanted to dictate to him. They don’t seem to understand how a representative Democracy works. People that win the election get to set the agenda. THat isn’t Bush’s fault.
$300 bucks is a fortune to trailer trash huh, pbj.
fire@58,
pbj – I would like to tell you that I disagree with Bush’s Africa policy ….. but he doesn’t have one. More are dying now than ever before. Perfect breeding grounds for extremists of every type. Bush is too busy with Iraq. (why are we there again?)
He has more of an Africa policy that Clinton ever had. Clinton allowed the genocide in RWanda to kill millions. Bush has been generous with money for AIDS in Africa – more than Clinton ever spent!
reply@59,
pbj, it’s safe to say that if Clinton had intervened in Rwanda to stop the genocide there, right wingers would have screamed bloody murder
That is a nice excuse now isn’t it?
– as they did when Clinton stopped a genocide in Kosovo
You mean his illegal war against a country that never attacked us and the UN never auithorized? That War? The one we are STILL in to this very day and CLinton promised in 6 months the troops would be home? The Wag the Dog War?
reply@64,
Worst.President.Ever.
Yeah. Clinton was he worst.
Felix@54,
Good lord, the mental sommersaults the wingers have to go through to reassure themselves. Ask an average joe whether their situation was better under Clinton or under Bush. Somehow you’ve convinced yourselves that deficits are preferable to surpluses, war is preferable to peace, and incompetence is preferable to intelligence. Would be absolutely comical if I didn’t have to go on your screwed up joyride with my country.
I AM an average joe, not a yuppy liberal with a BMW.
Roger@61,
If there was a prize for bullshit, pbj would win it. Bush wants to reach out to liberals all right – to dictate terms of surrender. Well we ain’t in a surrendering mood, asshole. Bush and his neo-Nazis play no-holds-barred, no-negotiations, no-compromises, dirty politics and you have the balls to accuse US of dividing the country? Pbj, if you want to see want an America-hating traitor looks like, look in a mirror.
Where the hell did you serve Roger? I have served my country. And if you so-shial-ists think WE are surrendering to any of your left crap you got another thing coming!
reply@71,
The only reason that the twin towers didnt come down on Clintons watch was they didnt bring in enough explosives…so WTF did Clinton do? Oh thats right, a blowjob! Very counterterrorist of him!
Clinton thought it would be good if he went ‘under cover’.
The general said “Damn thos terrorists! We are gonna get blown up”
All CLinton heard was “We are gonna get blown.”
Replt@6,
I found a pick of roger at work:
http:www.costumenetwork.com/Magazine/Images/bm01-9-Goat%27s-Ass-of-Truth.jpg
This country was way more divided in the 90s than it is now. The 90’s gave us a president who won with 42% and 48% of the vote. It was so fucking divided that a majority of the people had to put up with a shithead they didnt want in the first place. So STFU!
Roger at work:
http://www.costumenetwork.com/.....-Truth.jpg
pbj @ 75
“He offered to work with Democrats . . . “
Blah, blah, blah. You are completely whacked, pbj. There has not been a President in our lifetime that has been more averse to compromise than Shrub.
”They don’t seem to understand how a representative Democracy works. People that win the election get to set the agenda. THat isn’t Bush’s fault.”
It is if you say you are going to change the tone, and be a “uniter [sic], not a divider.” A good politician knows how to and when to compromise. A good political will skillfully sell an agenda until the opposition thinks it is their own agenda. Bush has never shown any skill in political gamesmanship, whatsoever. Instead he has bullied his way through almost everything he has done, forcing an ideological (Neocon, PNAC) agenda over an agenda to make America work for all. In short, Bush is no statesman.
Goldy–
I saw the article in today’s P-I about your “life partner” who died from engaging in anal sex with a HORSE!!! My sincere condolences. I’m sure you will miss his playfulness, companionship and willingness to take risks.
Don’t blame yourself to much for his untimely demise. Your obsession with Horses…particularly their back-ends which obviously gets into the anal area…is quite bizarre. But certainly you are wise enough to only give it to horse…not be on the receiving end.
After all, you did try to get Eyman named a “HORSESASS” and you did go around bragging how you fucked him. We didn’t realize until now that you meant it literally!!!!
Now the wingnuts are trying to spin the Rove story into how Rove was a whistle blower when he outed a coert CIA operative.
I believe it!
BTW, Jeff Gannon/Guckerts nickname is “Whistle”.
Chuck @ 71
“The only reason that the twin towers didnt come down on Clintons watch was they didnt bring in enough explosives…so WTF did Clinton do?”
Of course, the tower DIDN’T come down. In fact, within two weeks of the bombing 4 of the perpetrators were in jail. One was arrested two years later, and the leader, Ramzi Yousef was subjected to a man-hunt through the Philippines, and finally to Pakistan where he was arrested some years later.
In 1993 the idea of foreign terrorists attacking the U.S. was pretty new—everyone thought of terrorism as something that happened overseas. Clinton took this new threat very seriously. In 1995, the federal counterterrorism budget was $5.7 billion and he sought, and got through $11.1 billion by 2000.
Under Clinton, there were dozens of foreign and domestic terrorists attacks that were prevented by U.S. intelligence (or cooperation with foreign intelligence, and some luck). Clinton had no issues with honoring requests from the CIA, State Department or the military to perform “extraordinary renditions” (snatching) terrorists—he never denied such a request. Clinton was first to have a terrorism Czar (Richard Clarke), developed the prototype for Homeland Security (they called it Homeland Defense). In 1995, Clinton issued an Executive Order making it a felony to raise funds for or transfer funds to designated terrorist groups or their front organizations. Under Clinton, disparate federal agencies were made to cooperate and train in counterterrorism. The Atlantic Olympics marked a turning point in homeland defense, where federal agencies developed and implemented a comprehensive security and counterterrorism plan that included restricting train traffic through the tunnels of Atlanta, restrictions of air traffic over the event, extra security at a nearby University research reactor, and dozens of other new measures. (Yes, there was a small bomb set off, that was in a public place outside the official Olympics.) Clinton is reported to have voraciously read terrorism material (fiction and non-fiction). By the late 90’s it is not an exaggeration to say that Clinton was obsessed with stopping terrorism. You probably remember all of the security concern during the millennium event–that was, to a large extent, motivated by Clinton’s personal concerns to preventing terrorism.
Boys…I hear your frustration. I DO feel your pain. I know it might be cold comfort, but please know that NO previous Administration lied, cheated, stole, blustered, bamboozled, and bungled faster better or bigger than this bunch.
Their place in history is secure. Rest easy, fellas. Your guys will go down as THE most hubristic since well…Nixon.
Do you ever read Josh Marshall?
****************************************************************
(July 14, 2005 — 10:41 PM EDT)
There’s a point that’s probably worth raising with our scofflaw Republican friends. All of their arguments now amount to excuses, like those of a small child caught stealing cookies: Joe Wilson’s a liar. Plame’s covert status wasn’t protected well by the CIA. It was just a short phone call. Rove really wanted to speak about welfare reform. Wilson said Cheney sent him to Africa. Plame sent Wilson to Africa. Rove leaked Plame’s identity in the interests of good journalism. Wilson went on too many TV shows. On and on and on.
The salient point is not that each of these claims is false. The point is that they’re irrelevant. It’s the mid-life version of ‘He hit me first!’ or ‘He called me a name!’ or other such foolery.
No presidential advisor should ever disclose the identity of a covert agent at the CIA. That doesn’t require elaboration.
If it’s done knowingly, it’s a felony. Joe Wilson could be the biggest hack in the world. Plame could have cooked the whole trip idea up to damage the president — as some GOP loopsters are now claiming — and it wouldn’t matter.
Rove (and, though we’re not supposed to say it yet, several of his colleagues) did something obviously wrong and reckless. And they probably broke several laws by the time it was all done.
Pretty much every Republican in Washington today works for Karl Rove. So they can’t deal with that fact. But fact it is.
And nothing was done amiss? If Rove et al. didn’t do anything wrong, why have they spent two years lying about what they did? No law was broken? Then what is Fitzgerald looking at? Why is a grand jury investigating Rove? A prosecutor like Fitzgerald, a Republican appointee, wouldn’t be throwing journalists in jail unless he thought he was investigating a serious crime.
What’s their answer to that? They have none. Rove runs the Washington Republican party, owns it. So it’s anything but hold him accountable.
— Josh Marshall
Copyright 2005 TPM Media LLC
****************************************************************
“Somebody’s gonna get fried tonight. More people usin’ natural gas than ever before. Somebody’s gonna fry tonight.”
Lenny Bruce
Rujax206 @91
And nothing was done amiss? If Rove et al. didn’t do anything wrong, why have they spent two years lying about what they did? No law was broken? Then what is Fitzgerald looking at? Why is a grand jury investigating Rove?
And nothing was done amiss? If Carville et al. didn’t do anything wrong, why have they spent six years lying about what they did? No law was broken? Then what is Starr looking at? Why is a grand jury investigating Clinton?
Just to make you look like a hack…
A prosecutor like Fitzgerald, a Republican appointee, wouldn’t be throwing journalists in jail unless he thought he was investigating a serious crime.
Um, Fitzgerald is a democrat appointed by an R…
Ah, marks, the ever tricky “repeat what you said but blame it on Clinton” trick.
Verrrry interesting… But stoooopid.
And boring.
Donna @93,
Do you honestly believe there is any difference? I emphasize “honestly” for obvious reasons…
Honestly? Hell YES!!
I am no Clinton fan, but this current administration is EVIL BAD DANGEROUS. And I do not mean that is a good way.
As you wish, Donna…
Thanks, marks. I wish you could grant me the wish of having these assholes in the Bush Hunta just fucking disappear.
marks@92-
Banging your head on the desk WILL cause permanent damage, and will not make these criminals any less guilty.
Good Gawd, man…when are you going to give this up. These people are just not worth it. Marks, they sold you out. Hard…they did it. I’m sorry it’s happening, but it’s happening. These are wrong guys. We need to clean this up and move on. All of us marks. Together.
Donna and rujax206,
I am not saying that I am the best defender of the conservative faith. Indeed, based on what I have been privy to in the current manifestation of the White House, I would say I am not a happy guy.
What you both are saying is that there is true malfeasance on the part of Bush. Absent any indications aside from your own iridescent ruminations, I do not think this administration meets the threshold established by Nixon.
marks @ 92
“Um, Fitzgerald is a democrat appointed by an R…”
. . . riiiiight. . . . :-)
marks, there may be hope for you.
I personally believe that Nixon was a small time thug compared to GWB’s administration. I refer to his administration because Bush is just a frat boy playing a role. Rove, Cheney, Rumsfield et al, are the real brains behind the hunta.
But do we need to set a bar at “Nixon”? Heck, I think Clinton should have beed vilified for signing NAFTA, not for getting a blow job. Clinton, IMHO, is only the best republican President we had in the 20th century. That is small praise.
As rujax stated, we all, Republican and democrat (I am neither) and independents need to get rid of the Neo-Cons, and get America back to what America is all about.
This gang needs to be sacrificed for the greater good that is the USA.
Donna,
I feel your pain…(uh, well, you know)…
I am not about to agree with your diffuse remonstrance. Get your (national) candidate(s) elected, then we’ll talk :)
Seriously, why is GWB such a pain to you? You can’t really think Kerry was all that, do ya?
Lesser of two evils. That is what should be printed on every ballot.
That is if you get a printed ballot. Elections like electronic bank deposits and withdrawls should have printed receipt and a paper trail.
Sorry trees. Suck it up.
Comment on 99
That may change soon. There’s a dynamic to these things … when cracks appear in an administration, then start to widen, and it begins to look like the monolith might be vulnerable … that’s when people who have been afraid to talk, begin to talk.
From what I’ve heard, the whispering in D.C. is that there’s “fifty Watergates” out there, and if that’s so, it’s only a matter of time before the people who know about them come out of the woodwork.
The Bush administration is a house of cards built on lies and fantasies. Gravity still works. The cards are going to fall. Wait and see.
The Bush administration is a house of cards built on lies and fantasies. Gravity still works. The cards are going to fall. Wait and see. Comment by Roger Rabbit— 7/14/05 @ 10:58 pm
Yoohoo! Snow white called – dopey is MIA… probably screwing horses in Enumclaw dreaming of impeached Presidents – oh that’s right, waggin his willieWAS impeached. Will be the only one in your pathetic lifetime, dopey. Get used to R’s running the country and libs running their mouths.
“only 41 percent give Bush good marks for being “honest and straightforward” — his lowest ranking on this question since he became president.”
Maybe this was the “shock and awe” he was talking about years ago?
Ratings falling like 500 lb bombs.
Welcome to PBJworld!
In PBJworld, Bush didn’t lie at all to get us into Iraq,
In PBJworld, everything’s Clinton’s fault, Carl Rove’s Bitch, and proud of it!
In PBJworld, up is down, ’cause the president said so in a speech!
In PBJworld, anyone who thiks red isn’t blue is a commie traitor! because the talking points said so!
Finally, in PBJworld, Tom ‘n Valerie did everything wrong, and Rove did everything right. because PBJ is a delusional right wing troll whackjob!
All kidding aside, Mr. Jelly… you spend so much time here spinning, making things up, and repeating your political masters’ words… what else do you do?
you post omre than anything else, and its always those angry, wrong, right wing diatribes… Thats no way to live!
Ahhh, yet more poll data that is as accurate as election day exit polls. Remember when you actually thought Kerry was going to win? To actually think this trend somehow helps your party of choice (this NBC/WSJ poll also showed support for the democrats at only 38%)is dreaming at best, most likely, just continued dellusional thoughts of those far out leftwingers from the peoples republic of Seattle.