Damn it, can’t the WA Department of Transportation do anything right? The Hood Canal Bridge was supposed to be closed for repairs through 4 am Monday morning, but reopened Saturday night, more than one day early! Sheesh… I betcha the lazy, incompetent government workers probably brought it in under budget too.
I mean, if we can’t trust the DOT to keep the bridge closed for as long as promised, how can we trust them to spend our gas tax dollars as promised?
If the DOT snaps it’s fingers and the project is done the wingnuts will complain they wasted taxpayer subsidized skin between the thumb and the middle finger.
Goldy — it’s good that you are finally beginning to see the light :)
If it would have been done by private contractors not paying “prevailing wage” the estimate would have beed a day earlier and the job would have been done a day earlier than that…
hehe.
Well Goldy, all I can say is even a broken watch is right twice a day…..
Well shucks…Let’s give ’em all our money then. Forget 912. I guess they solved all their problems. WTF was I thinking anyway?
Goldy, how dare you introduce facts into a debate that’s dominated by the anti-tax crowd’s baseless assertions?
Goldy–
I hate to be so cynical and burst your bubble but the original time estimate had contingency time in it just in case something went wrong. They thought they could get it done by Saturday night all along. Hell, they had years & years and spent millions planning this. It got done on schedule as we should have a right to expect.
PS You can be such a DINK Goldy!
And goldy, they still get to run heavy trucks on 1-90…
Have faith, they sunk 1-90 once, they might do it again.
You would not believe the delays and “cost overruns” on roads and bridges in AZ. There are bridges there built in 1914 that are still in use while the ones built by “private” contractors fall apart in 5 years. Roads ,too. The contracts are only “private’ in the sense that they privately bribed their way into getting the contracts. Like good REPS everywhere, they are crooks, just like RMN.
Good for the WSDOT on actually meeting/beating a deadline.
Note that the OVERALL project deadline went from 2006 to 2009 to “unknown.” Of course, a lot of that has to do with the whole Port Angeles fiasco, and…
Part of the money budgeted and will be spent “on schedule” — things like the upgrades going on now. But…
What will happen when they’ve done everything they can for now? What will happen to the budget money? Will it go back into the WSDOT coffers — only to be spent on a different project? Will they pay people to sit on their hands — as I’m sure the unions will insist they do?
There was a certain amount of money budgeted and certain hiring needed for this year. Will they keep all of the Hood Canal people and put them to work on other projects just to keep them busy? Or will they tell them they’ll only be needed in a year or two or three and “we’ll call you?”
so now there is harry, moonbat,bax, jesus christ…….gee, i wonder how many of these are one and the same?
Yeah, I just don’t trust WSDOT … I mean, their website is chock full of listings for every project underway and proposed for the next several years, complete with all the project budget info., contractor details, photos, diagrams, meeting notices, dates and times, but still … how can we possibly trust these people when they are so obviously hiding something?
Felix @ 12
Because the best way to get away with something is to hide in plain sight.
Speaking of highway projects in general, why is it that they always end up weeks/months/years late and over budget if there is all of this careful planning? Could it be that your humble government servants — your legislators — knowingly do a bit of razzle-dazzle with the numbers and then claim, “oh, the numbers you’re talking about are only for Implementation Version One of the Base Project Plan. What was acutally done is totally different?”
The blind hate on here is so… wierd. Get a grip people, the DOT is very efficient nowadays, being under time and budget more often than not.
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/accountability/default.htm
Knowledge is, like, good and stuff
Mark @13,
Thank you Mark! See, that was exactly the point of my sarcasm. I point out a specific instance — however small — of the DOT completing a project on time, and you respond by flatly stating that their projects “always end up weeks/months/years late and over budget.” As Windie points out @14, that simply is not true.
Facts are obviously not very important in this debate… I-912 is clearly just another one of those faith-based initiatives.
windie@14
Then why do they piss away so much money?
Goldy; you’d be more believable if you quoted someone other than the same agency (wsdot) you are judging. Fox in the henhouse as it were.
Of course since we have no independent scrutiny (no real objective print press here) we’ll never know. Beating your own budget is not very amazing.
What happens to them when they exceed budget? I think nothing; they just get more money.
It’s like fossils….faith allows them to be explained.
It’s like being anti-abortion yet pro-death-penalty…only faith can support holding both views.
Facts never sway faith-based positions….
Here’s a current example of faith leading hte way: http://wireservice.wired.com/w.....wire_story
Just because this one particular project worked out for the better, does not mean the usual aggogance of you leftys can deny and ignore the many past fuckups, overspending, general laziness, and incompetence of the WSDOT. If you think they can do no wrong, then you’re all way dumber than you look. Thanks.
at 19: that’d be a typo. “arrogance” is what I meant. Not enough coffee in me yet. Thanks.
chuck@16
They’re doing a very good job now, show me where (beyond your ‘prevailing wage’ ranting) they’re ‘pissing away’ money~
Goldy @ 15
“Facts are obviously not very important in this debate… I-912 is clearly just another one of those faith-based initiatives.”
While I’m glad that this part of the project went smoothly, I’m not sure I’d base my vote for or against I-912 on three days and a small percentage of the budget of a $200+ million project. I’d say that the performance of the Hood Canal Bridge project, over budget and late, is something that concerns many people about the 9.5 cent gas tax projects, since several are much larger, less well defined, and even more complicated than this one.
So can anyone name a recent large public construction project that was on-time and on/under/or near the budgeted cost? If not it seems like funding these projects is really a “faith-based initiative” as well.
Mark @ 13
“Because the best way to get away with something is to hide in plain sight.”
Ahhhh. . . no. The best way to get away with something is to hide it well out of sight. Transparancy only works when nobody is suspicious up front. Clearly that is not the case here.
Chuck @ 16
“Then why do they piss away so much money?”
They only “piss away” money if you believe we need no transportation infrastructure. Otherwise, what you refer to as “pissing away” money, is called “transportation infrastructure development and maintenance” to most other people.
dj @ 24
“They only “piss away” money if you believe we need no transportation infrastructure. Otherwise, what you refer to as “pissing away” money, is called “transportation infrastructure development and maintenance” to most other people.”
So are you saying that our transportation budget dollars are spend as efficiently as possible? If not then some of the money is being wasted, and the money we already have could go further.
Can you name a large public construction project that has come in on time and close to the projected budget?
C1st@25
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/I90/Geiger_US2/ Scheduled to end Summer 2005, finished November 2004
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Region.....uincyEast/ Completed 4/15, 1 month ahead of schedule
There’s 2
Goldy @ 15
Don’t be an HA. I was speaking of “highway projects in general,” not specifically current WSDOT projects. There are plenty of them that show up all over the country — the Big Dig in Boston being one of the more noticeable.
Also, I would imagine that all of the wasted money in Port Angeles will put Hood Canal over budget when all is said and done.
I took a look at the WSDOT website and was impressed with what I saw. Whether or not the targets are realistic or heavily padded, I don’t know. For many people, I think it is a matter of getting over the “fool me once, fool me twice…” thing.
windie @ 26
The first link was replacing a median barrier on a few miles of I-90 for a budget of $781,000. I don’t see the actual dollars spent, if you could point them out I’d be glad to look at them.
The second is an intersection improvement in Quincy, for about $400,000, or that was what the contract was awarded for. Again I don’t see anyway to measure performance from the information provided. Maybe I missed it.
I wouldn’t consider either of these projects to be a large construction project, especially when compared to the AWV, or the 520 bridge as proposed as part of the 9.5 cent gas tax increase.
Tommy @ 18: “It’s like being anti-abortion yet pro-death-penalty…only faith can support holding both views.”
Not true. It is actually easy. Baby=innocent. Criminal=guilty.
Also, you oversimplify the pro-life/-choice issue. It isn’t just one or the other. For example, one could believe abortion is OK in the first trimester, but only OK later if the mother’s life is in danger. Is that person pro-choice or pro-life?
Cheesy Chuckie @ 16
Why do you piss away so much of you wife’s hard-earned money every time you fill up your hunting vehicle? I’m sure you tell her, well dear, gas costs a lot.
17
Washington State has 300,000 GOP watchdogs out to get WSDOT any way they can, and you say WSDOT gets no scrutiny?
You are funny.
STrange the trolls aren’t worried about Bush pissing away $300 billion (and counting) on the wrong war.
That works out to $6 billion per state, on average. Fifty Alaska Way Viaducts + 520 bridges thrown down a rat hole — and not a peep from the trolls.
Go figure.
Goldy–
Planning and presenting glowing projections is what WSDOT excels at.
EXECUTION is their problem. CREDIBILITY is their problem. HONESTY is their problem. FISCAL MANAGEMENT is their problem.
I appreciate your sarcasm in this thread Goldy. Even you recognize that anyone can overstate the timetable for a project and then beat the overstated goal. That is what happened here…..period. It’s goofy stuff like this little timetable scam that makes taxpayers even more wary….know what I mean?
Goldy, I know just what you mean. Here in Oregon we have the same problem. The creation of a new yellow Max line to take people from the OR/WAS border into downtown, serving low and middle income citizens or North Portland the whole way, was a boondoggle of immense proportions. By the time it was over, they had mismanaged our money to the tune of $25 million under budget, and inconvenienced travellers a disgusting FOUR MONTHS less than they had planned.
Here are the ugly details. 50 new businesses along the line in 7 months! Bastards. What are we going to do will all those jobs and new products and services?
Goldy, I share your outrage. We have the same problem in Oregon. Our totally inefficient and struggling MAX lines (only a quadrupling of ridership on new lines since 1993) told us they’d produce a shiny new line running from the WA border into downtown. They promised that low and middle income residents of the North Portland area would benefit.
And what did the bastards do? This boondoggle cost $25mil LESS than they promised! How could they be so far off? And get this: they finished a full FOUR MONTHS early! What are those construction workers going to do now, huh?
Here are the ugly details. 50 new businesses in seven months–I ask you: is that the kind of service we expect? I say NO!
ugh, sorry for the repost.
tj–
@30
No you aren’t!!
Oh and tj–
You aren’t in Washington either….the track record here sucks with mismanagement. Look at the Hood Canal Graving Yard situation. Who has been FIRED for that $60 million boondoggle???
No one, of course.
If indeed your numbers are correct (please provide me a link for review)..my guess is they are the unaudited numbers from the Max Line folks. One of the huge problems we have with accountability of government capital projects is the shell games that are played. For example, government entities often fail to capitalize appropriate contract costs to the project and instead they are charged to current expense. Thus the project APPEARS to come in under budget. It is also common to essentially have 2 different sets of books that do not reconcile. They keep a set for the project which shows the public that they are well managed. However, the true cost is something different…again hidden under current expense. Do you really think the State Auditors are equipped to flush out these types of “SHELL GAMES”??? They aren’t.
Cynical–go discover it yourself. There’s been no indication from ANYONE that the savings are not what they were expressed as. If you want details, contact Mary Fetsch at 503-962-6403. I’m sure she can send you some balance sheet details.
tj–
I figured since you were quoting specific savings dollars, you probably had the source at your fingertips.
Sorry for assuming you had actual documentation.
I won’t ever bother you for supporting details again tj.
I did quote specific savings–25mil. They ARE from the source. If you are going to accuse the City/Tri-Met of financial misaccounting, that’s your burden to produce. And I gave you a specific contact. Let me know how it goes.
ConservativeFirst @ 28
“I wouldn’t consider either of these projects to be a large construction project, especially when compared to the AWV, or the 520 bridge as proposed as part of the 9.5 cent gas tax increase.”
Before you start spewing your bullshit about the 9.5 cent gas tax increase, I suggest you read the legislation. There is no mention of the AWV or the 520 bridge in that legislation.
Mr. Cynical @ 38
“Look at the Hood Canal Graving Yard situation. Who has been FIRED for that $60 million boondoggle???”
You keep binging this one up over and over again. Was this really a boondoggle, or was it bad luck?
At one time you claimed that there was a web site that pointed out that the property was chocked full of bones (of course, you are the first to bitch about Government workers surfing the web on government time with government computers :) . But, you have never provided a source for that claim nor a web site.
I moved up from Portland in February… I miss the Max so much.
DJ, go pass your gas regarding “no 520 in the legislation” to all your left wing politicians who say it is….and seattle times, etc, etc.
what’s your fixation w/ reading the legislation. I assume you then read all the bills into the Congress too?
ohhh my, doing research so we can have informed debate is a flaw now? Wow.
windie@44–
Do us all a favor and move back you LEFTIST PINHEADED ASSHOLE!
@47
Poor rightie troll is feeling a little fragile today!
Personally I’m tired of “pissing away” my hard earned dollars to help support the WSDNR fight fires in eastern Washington. I don’t own property in those forests, go to those forests or know any people who own houses there, so why should I have to pay anything to keep them safe? And who really knows how that money is spent? Who keeps WSDNR resoposible when we increase their funding to keep those fires contained? Even with the hotter temperatures and record forest fire seasons, we’re certainly never going to need that type of firefighting over here on the sound. So I say, if it turns out the easterners are responsible for overturning the gas tax, I say, let ’em burn.
righton @ 45
“DJ, go pass your gas regarding “no 520 in the legislation” to all your left wing politicians who say it is….and seattle times, etc, etc.”
Ummm. . . I only see, hear, read wingnut idiots insinuate that the gas tax increase is all about the 520 floating bridge and the AWV. It ain’t.
“what’s your fixation w/ reading the legislation.”
It isn’t a fixation, per se. Rather, my suggestions arise after I read stoopid shit that some of you wingnuts say about it. Geez. . . it is not that much effort to find and read. If you want to be blissfully ignorant, feel free, but then I’ll feel free to treat you with the contempt you earn.
“I assume you then read all the bills into the Congress too?”
When I take a strong position for or against a piece of legislation, I do read it. The problem, as I see it, is that there are too many of you stupid fuckers who just learn shit on talk radio.
dj, baloney
8 sec search on Google has “the stranger”, Aug 11, whining about i-912 “Similarly, we’ve heard nothing from Democrat King County Executive Ron Sims (who needs the gas tax to help fix Highways 520 and 405) nor Democrat Mayor Greg Nickels (the gas tax plan included $2 billion for the viaduct). ”
you just wanna be an lefty troll and are too chicken to brave Shark infested waters..
righton @ 51
“8 sec search on Google has “the stranger”, Aug 11, whining about i-912 “Similarly, we’ve heard nothing from Democrat King County Executive Ron Sims (who needs the gas tax to help fix Highways 520 and 405) nor Democrat Mayor Greg Nickels (the gas tax plan included $2 billion for the viaduct).”
Ummmm. . . righton, did you think Josh Feit is a lefty?
“you just wanna be an lefty troll and are too chicken to brave Shark infested waters..”
I am not sure I follow you here, righton. I am a left-leaning person who comments on a lefty blog.
I believe that makes YOU the troll. In fact, aren’t you one of those paid trolls?
So can anyone name a recent large public construction project that was on-time and on/under/or near the budgeted cost? If not it seems like funding these projects is really a “faith-based initiative” as well.
No problem. WA DOT recently completed the Access Downtown project on I-405 through downtown Bellevue. It was a very large project that tore down and rebuilt two overpass/interchanges (NE 8th and NE 4th) and built a new offramp at SE 8th St. It also widened the freeway to provide extra space for DOT’s plan to eventually put more lanes in on 405. It was completed one year ahead of schedule and $25 million under budget.
Claiming DOT is by and large doing its job efficiently is not a “faith-based” assertion; it’s backed up by demonstrable facts. For example, DOT has so far completed 12 nickel projects. 8 were early, 1 late, 3 on time. 6 were under budget, 1 over, and 5 on budget.
Isn’t government delivering projects on time or ahead of schedule and on or under budget exactly what we want?
So can anyone name a recent large public construction project that was on-time and on/under/or near the budgeted cost? If not it seems like funding these projects is really a “faith-based initiative” as well.
WA DOT just finished the Access Downtown project in downtown Bellevue on 405. They tore down and rebuilt two major overpass/interchanges (NE 8th and NE 4th) and built a new offramp/interchange at SE 8th. They finished the project one year ahead of schedule and $25 million under budget. Is that the sort of example that you’re looking for?
Those Bastards!
One year AHEAD OF SCHEDULE and $25 MILLION dollars under budget. Don’t they know they could have blown that money 2 or 3 times over?!?!?! And taken another two years to finsh.
Oh, sorry, Democrats must be in charge of the State government.
Good job, guys.
dj @ 50
http://www.thenewstribune.com/.....6415c.html
“The tax increase, part of which took effect July 1, is part of a revenue package designed to provide as much as $8.5 billion for highway construction and transit improvements. About $2 billion is to be used for the viaduct.”
Okay so the TNT is wrong.
http://www.komotv.com/stories/38464.htm
“The tax increase is the main foundation of a 16-year, $8.5 billion transportation program for mega-projects like the Alaskan Way Viaduct and the 520 Lake Washington bridge, road improvements, ferries and mass transit.”
So Komo TV is wrong, too.
Are these the talk radio sources you are talking about? I never said the gas tax increase was “all about” 520 and the AWV. My point is that these projects (or projects on the same scale) are what is being pushed by the proponents of the tax increase as justification of the gas tax increase.
So, I’ll ask the question again. Can you name a large public construction project that has come in on time and close to the projected budget?
Bax @ 53
“WA DOT just finished the Access Downtown project in downtown Bellevue on 405. They tore down and rebuilt two major overpass/interchanges (NE 8th and NE 4th) and built a new offramp/interchange at SE 8th. They finished the project one year ahead of schedule and $25 million under budget. Is that the sort of example that you’re looking for? ”
Yes, so that’s 1.
I have to say I’m skeptical, $25 million, or about 18%, under budget seems fishy. Especially with Sound Transit involved, they’ve not been the most honest group when it comes to this type of information. Just look at how they’ve reset the goals on the Sounder Train to “surpasses expectations”. Seems likely a really high budget goal was set to ensure they could beat the number.
Seems likely a really high budget goal was set to ensure they could beat the number.
Do you have any evidence to back up that assertion?
54
Can you name a large war that has come in on time and close to the projected budget?
boston big dig
aw, not fair to list a great example of late, costly, etc.
Roger Rabbit@30
Got rid of the wife years ago for pissing too much money away, raised the kids as a single dad with no child support from her (here I take a bow and dont tell me of your probs with the “deadbeat dad” because you can put your boots on and hit it as I did!). Anytime you think I am frugal with the dollar you should see my kids! Your democratic policies turned my daughter from the consumate democrat to a staunch conservative (thank you guys) last election. I had just assumed she was going to vote lib as she usually supports but in her words “I voted republican all the way down! Fuck the democrats!” (We are talking fatherly pride here!)
ConservativeFirst @ 55
“I have to say I’m skeptical, $25 million, or about 18%, under budget seems fishy. “
Of course you are skeptical. By your Redneck logic, if the DOT goes over-budget or takes more time than originally projected, they are incompetent idiots. But, if they come in substantially under-budget and early, then they are evil geniuses who must be bilking the taxpayers some other way.
You fucking losers can never be satisfied because you are narcissistic tightwads who have no foresight or interest in the future, no concept of public goods, and no idea how important publicly-funded projects have been in raising the quality of your life.
dj @ 60
“Of course you are skeptical. By your Redneck logic, if the DOT goes over-budget or takes more time than originally projected, they are incompetent idiots. But, if they come in substantially under-budget and early, then they are evil geniuses who must be bilking the taxpayers some other way.”
I’m skeptical because Sound Transit is involved, not DOT. I’ve never said that DOT are idiots or incompetent. Based upon past performance, one successful project out of dozens, doesn’t give me enough confidence in DOT to write them a blank check in the future.
Bax @ 56
“Do you have any evidence to back up that assertion? ”
Nope, only my opinion, based upon Sound Transit’s involvement and their past behavior.b
dj; ever hired big time contractors?
I have; learned early that negotiating a “you get a % of the savings” contract meant he’d just inflate the contract and still come in under
I assume state workers are equally devious, though less likely to profit personally. Nonetheless, its in their best interest to fake the budget and come in under. I assume their performance reviews reflect beating budget.
Conservativefirst @ 54
The KOMO quote is, in fact, inaccurate. The first quote is simply factual and does not state the purpose of the legislation. I made the point that the Legislation makes no mention whatsoever of the AWV nor the 520 bridge. In fact the priorities for funding the special projects are based first on accident record and fatality record. But, there is a whole lot more to the legislation. Quit acting like an ignorant fucker and read the legislation, already.
“I never said the gas tax increase was “all about” 520 and the AWV. My point is that these projects (or projects on the same scale) are what is being pushed by the proponents of the tax increase as justification of the gas tax increase.”
You stated @ 28, “I wouldn’t consider either of these projects to be a large construction project, especially when compared to the AWV, or the 520 bridge as proposed as part of the 9.5 cent gas tax increase.” I pointed out that these projects were not even mentioned in the legislation, and that you misunderstand the legislation. The fact is, the AWV and 520 bridge were not “proposed as part of the 9.5 cent gas tax increase.”
”So, I’ll ask the question again. Can you name a large public construction project that has come in on time and close to the projected budget?”
I could, but you would have to pay me to do your research. But, consider this: in the U.S. there are 46,000 miles of interstate highways and 2.6 million miles of paved roads, tens of thousand of bridges; there are thousands of public cable TV systems, hundreds of public ports, marinas, dams, and locks, perhaps a thousand publicly-owned airports, perhaps 1000s of public colleges and universities (some with buildings numbering in the hundreds), thousands of public libraries, numerous public hospitals and other health facilities, many thousands of publicly-owned water distribution systems, sanitary sewer systems, and water treatment plants, thousands of jails and prisons, many tens of thousands of other types of government buildings and facilities.
Many of these projects were “major” when they were built. So, even if only 10% came in on-time and under-budget (and this is most likely an underestimate), then there are likely tens of thousands of “major” public projects that have come in on-time and under-budget. Documenting such successes would likely require a bit of leg and finger work—after all, the ones that go over-budget and over-time are the ones that the public hears about.
What is you point, anyway? Does a piece of infrastructure (say, a VA hospital) lose its value because it took too long or too much money to complete? It seems to me that you misunderstand that time and cost on these large projects are projections rather than price tags. Putting up a double decker highway or a new hospital is not like going to Wall Mart to buy new underwear.
dj; you can’t have it both ways,
912 funds a bunch of make work, striping and lane dividers
or
it largely jumpstarts serious funding on 520 and the viaduct
which is it?
righton @ 62
dj; ever hired big time contractors?
As a matter of fact, I do have some experience with soliciting bids for largeish a state-government project (not in WA, though).
:”I have; learned early that negotiating a “you get a % of the savings” contract meant he’d just inflate the contract and still come in under
I assume state workers are equally devious, though less likely to profit personally. Nonetheless, its in their best interest to fake the budget and come in under. I assume their performance reviews reflect beating budget.”
I don’t think you understand the bidding process used by the state!
righton @ 64
dj; you can’t have it both ways,
912 funds a bunch of make work, striping and lane dividers
Sorry, I don’t really understand what you are saying here. Are you asking if some of the gas-tax increase goes for highway safety projects? If so, the answer is that improvements for sections of roadway that have the highest accident and fatality records will have highest priority for funding.
it largely jumpstarts serious funding on 520 and the viaduct
Read the legislation. You will find that these projects are not mentioned. Of course, that does not mean that these projects won’t be selected with a high-enough priority to get some of the funding.
which is it?
Why ask me? You can solve your ignorance problem with a little reading.
dj@65
“I don’t think you understand the bidding process used by the state!”
I very well understand, they use falsely inflated requirements such as “prevailing wage” as well as the brother in law contractor system combined with the minority gets the bid, even though they werent the lowest bid, then dont forget the art…
sorry; your assertion that you alone understands the highway bill is bogus. we all read the papers, listen to the wsdot guys.
I have no idea what you are peddling; rest of us objecting to an extra tax for benefits that escape us.
But again, you make no sense
ConservativeFirst @ 61
“I’m skeptical because Sound Transit is involved, not DOT. I’ve never said that DOT are idiots or incompetent. Based upon past performance, one successful project out of dozens, doesn’t give me enough confidence in DOT to write them a blank check in the future.”
Apparently you don’t understand HOW SoundTransit is involved. They just provided some of the funding. The project was designed and constructed by WSDOT.
By the way, did you know that that project was awarded the “Pride in Transportation Construction” award in 2005 from the American Road and Transportation Builders Association? Imagine that, a Sound Transit-funded project winning a national award. . . right here in our li’l ol’ State.
Chuck @ 67
“I very well understand, they use falsely inflated requirements such as “prevailing wage” as well as the brother in law contractor system combined with the minority gets the bid, even though they werent the lowest bid, then dont forget the art…
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Chuck. We all know about your personal obsession with the prevailing wage law. Get over it—it’s the law.
(Note, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you on the merits of the prevailing wage law—I still have not made up my mind on that.)
righton @ 68
sorry; your assertion that you alone understands the highway bill is bogus.”
I never asserted that I alone understand the transportation package, did I? I did assert that you do not understand it, however.
“we all read the papers, listen to the wsdot guys.”
I suspect you all primarily have your brains wired to talk radio. Most of the shit I see posted here by supporters of 912 betrays ignorance of the package—ignorance that is easily cured by a careful reading of the bill. (It doesn’t mean you have to agree with the legislation, but it would help if we got rid of the bogus bullshit being spewed).
“I have no idea what you are peddling;”
Ummm. . . I suppose if I am peddling anything it is (1) education, and (2) a future Washington that has better transportation infrastructure than Bangladesh.
rest of us objecting to an extra tax for benefits that escape us.
Then, learn. . . I mean, really learn about the benefits of the bill. Because, you know what? If 912 goes through, SR 520 and the AWV WILL eventually be replaced, and probably without any delay. What will happen instead, is that the rest of the state highway infrastructure will not get the safety improvements that are needed. It sucks that people will needlessly die because assholes like you have no vision, common sense, or sense of civics.
“But again, you make no sense
Yeah. . . whatever.
Shit. . . sorry about the bold.
My goal would be a system found in say Western Europe or Japan. WSDOT is the same crowd that came up w/ 20 years working on 405 s curves, freeways with off ramps apart from on ramps, 3 person oops 2 person at times car pool lanes.
You must work there, only reason this obsession.
Still don’t get why your liberal press would lie about this bill. Toss us a link to some outside fan/critic of their construction.
I wouldn’t trust them to tell the truth, nor do i invest without being skeptical and getting outside research. I wasn’t burned by Enron, but i guess will be forced to pay for wsdot.
christmasghost@11:
I can accept all sorts of foul-mouthed language in here, but please don’t take the Lord’s name in vain.
dj @ 65
“What is you point, anyway? Does a piece of infrastructure (say, a VA hospital) lose its value because it took too long or too much money to complete?”
My point is that every major transporation construction project built, at least in recent memory, has been at a minimum late over budget. In the case of Sound Transit, their projects also have been less that what is promised and not met capacity estimates as well. Light rail, as an example, will not move the promised number of people, is not the promised route, will not be done on time and is grossly over budget. Yet the same people are still running the show. Where’s the accountability in that? In my opinion light rail has lost it’s value and should be scrapped before the cost of continuing rider subsidies will burden the taxpayer in perpetuity.
” pointed out that these projects were not even mentioned in the legislation, and that you misunderstand the legislation. The fact is, the AWV and 520 bridge were not “proposed as part of the 9.5 cent gas tax increase.”
What are we going to get for the 9.5 cent increase then? If you want to argue that the legislature is raising taxes with no plan in mind, have at it. I’d support I-912 even more strongly if this were the case.
So, what role did the WSDOT play in getting the bridge open early?
They stayed out of the way?
They paid the Kiewit/General Construction a bonus for early opening?
Hmmm, is this thread dead?
I came here looking for info about some supposed lawsuit (class action I’d guess) against WSDOT for some kind of incompetence or something. If anybody knows of such a thing, PLEASE post it here! I WANT IN!!!
I could tell ya about a lot of incompetence, stupidity, and most importantly, engineering malpractice about the Hood Canal Bridge project. I just wish somebody would work on pulling all the HCB info together, and going for WSDOT BLOOD!!! If a real, smart, competent, experienced, motivated, greedy, gold-digger lawyer from NYC or southern CA decided to get into this, all hell would break loose.
I mean, I’ve got some good doc’s, of bad stuff, and have been pissed about this crap since before they even before construction mobilization payments were made by the State. Of course all this stuff is public record, and everyone has access to all the documents, so it’s not like I’ve got classified or confidential stuff really.
If somebody was to beat-up some WSDOT people pretty badly, and win a bunch of $$$, where would it come from? I say that, if it was handled properly, a few million $$ of taxpayers money into some already-too-rich lawyers pockets would be a VERY wise project, and benefit WA taxpayers and motorists that will never even go near that bridge near Port Gamble.