One of the elements of this ongoing election dispute that I have found most difficult to wrap my mind around, is the passionate and apparently genuine belief by some on the other side, that Democrats are all lying, deceitful thieves, willing to do anything to get their candidates in office.
Well, our friends at the BIAW suggest one possible explanation for this delusional group-think: projection.
According to The Seattle Times (“Builders group uses trickery to check out voters’ signatures“), the BIAW sent out a “housing trends survey” to 400 King County residents, along with a $10.00 “thank you check.” Only, it wasn’t really a survey, and those 400 “residents” just happened to be the 400 absentee voters for whom Democrats collected signature affidavits during the initial count. Oh, and that check… that was just a clever way of capturing their signatures.
It was an out-and-out lie… a sham… exactly the kind of dirty, end-justifies-the-means deceit that the BIAW-backed Rossi camp clearly expects of Democrats. They think that we can’t be trusted, because quite frankly, they can’t be trusted. Classic projection.
“Boy, those BIAW people are so devious.”
That understatement comes from the rarely understated Paul Berendt, who appears in shock and awe at the depths to which his opponents will stoop. But he shouldn’t be so surprised… the BIAW wants to see him behind bars. Indeed, they truly believe he should be behind bars, and regularly fantasize about gleefully popping corks the day Paul is led away in leg irons.
He was after all, the real target of the BIAW’s little fraud. They weren’t just fishing for evidence to help Rossi; they hoped to dredge up criminal charges against Berendt and the Democratic volunteers. So deep is their hatred — and so shallow is their own moral and ethical framework — that they cannot help but assume the absolute worst of those who oppose them. In their eyes, Berendt is a criminal, and they’ll find the evidence if only they look hard enough. In the words of BIAW Executive Vice-Bastard Tom McCabe:
“Scientists say that you shouldn’t do an experiment if you have a conclusion already. I had a conclusion. I thought they had cheated.”
That’s right, he thinks Berendt is so corrupt and so brazen — and apparently, so stupid — that he would orchestrate a fraud that could so easily be traced back to him. That’s projection, and it suggests to me that it’s the BIAW’s own activities that warrant a criminal investigation.
Ironically, their efforts have only managed to shed light on more innocent explanations for why signatures don’t always match. The BIAW claims “about 20” signatures have raised suspicions, and the Times’ David Postman interviewed a few.
Christina Spears-Bartunek said her husband endorsed the check, and she was not happy about the deceptive survey: “I think it’s crappy.”
Cheryl Triplett said she has a “generic signature” and an “official signature.” The survey got the generic. The affidavit got the official.
She does that out of fear of identify theft, she said. She doesn’t want to put anything through the mail with her official signature.
In fact, that’s what got her ballot tossed initially. She used the generic signature on the absentee ballot because it was going through the mail. When it didn’t match her signature on file at King County, her ballot was rejected.
She said she thought she had been tricked into giving her signature.
“I think you should be honest about it. If the Republicans would have come to my door, I would have said, ‘This is my signature.’
“I just think that’s an underhanded way to go about things.”
“Crappy,” “underhanded,” “deceptive”… it’s all that and more. It also demonstrates how fundamentally distrustful the Rossi camp is, of not just Democrats, but the voting public in general. They couldn’t “be honest about it” because every irregularity or mismatched signature, is in their eyes, evidence of official corruption or the insulting paranoid fantasy some right-wing bloggers call “distributed vote fraud.”
The sad truth is, the BIAW and other lunatic-fringe Rossi diehards expect the worst of Democrats, because that is what they expect of themselves.
Thanks for offering your thoughts on this – all good points, especially regarding the signatures. I know the NPI team has also blogged on this. Here’s the permalink:
http://www.nwprogressive.org/w.....-flop.html
About time you got on this.
So this time, why not agree with the message at the same time you attack the messenger?
There is no doubt in my mind that the BIAW is onto something. There has been a lot of anecdotal information on fraud in this election, but until this has come up, there has been no proof. This silly thing about how the people use one signature for one thing and another signature for another comes completely out of the horses rear.
I, for one, am for a revote. When oh when will the Dems concede and ask for a revote. Continued posturing and delaying will only make the Dems weaker in this state.
Besides being shady and quite possibly an illegal way to gather evidence (the BIAW are not the police and are not entitled to lie to suspects) couldn’t the $10 checks be considered an “in-kind contribution” to the Republican party and thus be subject to disclosure and election financincing regulations?
Given that the BIAW has devoted their entire organization to becoming the next “Swift Boat Liars”, they’re quite clearly nothing but an arm for the Republican party – and no one should think otherwise. Any Democrat who’s supported the BIAW or their agenda in the past should immediately re-think that position.
Swatter – the plural of anecdote is not “data”. Clarke quite clearly admits that he knows he has committed egregrous scientific fraud (starting with a conclusion and then looking for data to back it up), and is not deterred by evidence disproving his theory. Any reputable scientific journal would throw out his conclusions based on his shoddy/illegal methods and quite likely repudiate the messenger (who knows what he is doing is wrong).
I’ll throw the question back at you – when is the complete lack of evidence, despite mountaings of accusations and a “chin-high drift of factoids”, going to convince you “re-voters” that there is no fraud. The answer is probably “never”, because you started with your conclusion and are expecting Democrats & election officials to “prove a negative”. That’s so incredibly intellectually dishonest of you.
(egregrous should be egregious, oops)
Newsflash: Pacs lie.
The sad truth is, the BIAW and other lunatic-fringe Rossi diehards expect the worst of Democrats, because that is what they expect of themselves.
Unfortunately they are both right. I have seen so many dirty little tricks and lies on both sides it wants to make me puke.
Some examples:
Feb 1 Press release from the D’s attacking the R’s: “Now, they are asking the government for a list of legal aliens, so they can go after immigrants – a community already hesitant to participate in our voting process.” Last I checked you had to be a citizen to vote.
The gambling iniitiative was a prime example of special interest lies. The Puyallup tribe backed the opposition and had signs all over tribal grounds with the saying “Keep gambling out of our neighborhoods” while forging ahead on their new casino.
When it comes to voter fraud issues, both sides have benefitted. It just happened to be the D’s turn this time. The sooner the R’s figure that out the better off the people will be.
calm down. if enough problems in voting (felons voting, multiple votes, deceased votes, and nonresident votes) are demonstrable, Judge Bridges will say so. if not, Rossi will (have to) go away. if he does not, he’ll be finished as having been a poor loser and he will have hurt his party as well.
everyone should just simmer down and wait for the case to play out. name calling helps no one. when the Governor supports reforms, when this blog posts about reforms, when an election has proven the need of reforms, Rossi deserves his day in court. he faces an uphill battle. but there are plenty of reasons for his legal suit.
both sides are guilty of below the belt attacks. if you don’t like it, don’t do it yourself. democrats control most offices in this state and all the key offices in King County. if you were the minority party, your responses might be necessary and understandable. we have a legal system. let it play out.
Well-said. I, too, find the Republican mantra of “lying, stealing, and fraud” to be one of the more puzzling and frustrating elements of the post-election spinning. At some point, I figured that the demands of empiricism and rationality would prompt the Republicans to tone down and actually deal with evidence. Such expectations, however, apparently reflect my naivete. Since the heavy-handed tactics of Watergate, the Republican campaign machine has become remarkably impressive in its single-minded focus and cohesiveness. They do whatever is necessary to take and maintain power. Democrats, however, bless our hearts, remain cat-herders when it comes to campaigns. The notion that we could plan, execute, and cover-up a stolen election is most amusing.
swatter @2,
I caught the tail end of Dave Ross talking about this yesterday, he had somebody from the BIAW on, and apparently nothing came of this effort. They can talk all they want about forged signatures on the affidavits, but they have found no evidence to support their charge. If they had… don’t you think we’d have heard it already?
Remember this was an almost daily rant from our friend Mr. Cynical, about how Berendt was going to end up in hoosegow, due to the affidavits. Haven’t heard much about that from him lately, huh?
All smoke, no fire.
choosing to only chase down the signatures of registered Democrats is intellectually dishonest also–somewhat mitigated by Berendt’s admission of it, same as with McCabe’s admission. I am not sure about the fraud of chasing down only the signatures of those they knew voted Democrat but it sure doesn’t make me think well of Berendt and his crew.
Berendt did it to win an election. McCabe did it to nullify it.
goose, meet gander.
There is a saying that those who think view life as a comedy, and those who feel view it as a tragedy. Of course, we all balance the mind and the heart in most matters, but for viewing this election contest, put me down as a thinker. This is becoming comic. I loved the irony of the spokeswoman for the Republicans saying the illegal voter list had been thoroughly researched and was reliable, but that it wasn’t perfect and might contain a few errors. The Times did a check on 32 names and found one in error and one questionable. Sounds like about a 3% or higher error rate (Vance was quoted as saying earlier that the list was 99.99% accurate). I know all the arguments about comparing apples with oranges, but one wonders if the players involved in all this (Ds and Rs) realize how silly they look and sound to the general public.
This aside, I wonder why the fellow at BIAW (McCabe?) didn’t do due diligence before concocting the $10 check survey scheme. A call to any forensic evidence or handwriting expert would have told him about variance in the same individual’s signatures, both by time and occasion. Good grief, Charlie Brown, what were you thinking?
RDC,
You have to have a signature to compare against. That was the whole point, to get something to compare against the affidavit. What are you afraid of Paul Berendt? It isnt identity theft if the person endorses a check. Goldy, what are you afraid will turn up in court. With Dean Logan and Sam Reed withholding public records, it was apparently the only way to conduct an investigation into an obviously corrupted process.
What do you expect from the Paranoid Party? Swatter @ 2 has nailed it: “There has been a lot of anecdotal information on fraud in this election, but … no proof.” Anecdotal is right — or just plain made up, or fantasized, or whatever adverb you want to use to describe making a mountain out of nothing.
As for the signature gathering, it was perfectly legal, and rather amazing that the Republicans did nothing to counter it. They should have sent their own signature gatherers out when they learned what the Democrats were doing, but they didn’t. I believe the explanation for that is they can’t mobilize volunteers like the Democrats can. The Democrats had around 7,000 volunteers for the signature effort, and got 1,000 signatures for their efforts, of which about 700 were validated and counted.
Now I know some of our conservative friends are going to jump in at this point and cry foul. So I would just like to point out that these were not votes cast after the election. These were timely and legitimate votes cast by eligible voters who were entitled to have their votes counted. There are a lot of reasons why signatures might not watch the official voter registration records:
People’s signatures change over time
Age or illness impairs a person’s handwriting
Some people’s signatures are illegible scrawls*
Name changes due to marriage, divorce, etc.
* There is no law that says your signature has to be legible
“I believe the explanation for that is they can’t mobilize volunteers like the Democrats can. The Democrats had around 7,000 volunteers for the signature effort, and got 1,000 signatures for their efforts, of which about 700 were validated and counted. ”
not bad for a bunch of Democrats who -bless their hearts- are a bunch of cat-herders who could never organize voter fraud.
Angry @ 12
Except apparently there was no fraud in the signature gathering operation. At the very least, it appears the BIAW did not come up with any.
The R and D parties are partisan operations, don’t forget. I agree only taking affidavits from Gregoire voters seems a little sleazy at first glance, but the R’s had the opportunity to go out and do the same. They did in other counties, so I understand.
At any rate, think of it this way. The parties are free to provide transportation to the polls for voters believed to be supporters. They are not required or expected to do the same for supporters of the other party. Facilitating delivery of affidavits so that their votes can be counted is much the same.
Last I checked you had to be a citizen to vote.
Errr, what? You do know that immigrants can become citizens and vote, right?
Personally,
I think the last ditch effort to tack on a bucnh more votes by the Democratic Party was shameful. The fact the The Democratically held legislature ushered Gregoire into the Governors seat (was there a blanket over her head?) under the premise that the courts should decide this matter and then had the Dem Party immediatly protest that the legislature only had the authority in this area was nothing less than criminal.
I voted democrat, but I garuntee aftre this election, I will be a flat out Republican Party voter with the hopes that this entire generation of legistlative vermin in office is voted out. If in fact, votes even count in this state any longer (Yes, I was one of those approximately 700 voters that was initially disnisfranchised).
I am just curious, why does Dean Logan still have a job?
By all accounts, this election is a fiasco.
For those of you protesting this, please explain the sudden urgency on election reform and monetary penalties on the Democratic Party in this state?
we’ve got a big problem in this state and it’s starts in Olympia and stops in your Bank Account.
Please excuse the speeling errors as it was a passionate e-mail.
Priek @ 17
I’m not sure I understand your complaint. First you rail on “the Democrats” for ‘adding’ votes, and then you worry about your vote counting because yours was one of the ones that then needed to be ‘added.’ Which is it? Did you want your vote recognized, or not?
Dean Logan still has a job because no one has shown that he’s done anything wrong. What do you think he’s done wrong?
On urgency–do you suppose it’s the same reason that drives thoughtful Republicans to support reform…because it seems like a good idea in general?
angryvoter @ 12
My point was that, if he had done due diligence, he would have known that even getting another signature for comparison would have proven useless in a court of law. Irony just keeps piling on irony, though. Imagine the BIAW handing out $10 checks to people who voted for Gregoire.
Aexia @ 16
I hope Goldy will forgive me for getting a tad off subject, but my understanding is that any state, or any voting jurisdiction within a state which is not banned from doing so by that state’s constitution, can extend the franchise to people who are not citizens. I’m not arguing for or against it, but I think that if the people of Washington wanted to, they could make voting by resident aliens, or other immigrants, legal. It may even be possible to make voting by Martin Ringhofer’s dreaded illegal aliens possible. Is there an attorney in the house who knows whether or not this is so?
Rex @ 10
Oh come on, Rex, the Democrats had no obligation to gather signatures of Rossi voters. That’s the GOP’s job. There’s no difference between Democrats working to get out the Democratic vote, and Democrats working to preserve Democratic votes that were cast by eligible voters. The Republicans had the same opportunity but chose not to do the work. That’s their problem.
There was nothing sneaky about it. The counties notified the voters whose signatures were in question by mail. These notices included a signature card and an instruction that the voter could validate his/her signature by signing the card and returning it to the county auditor. Many on both sides did so without prompting or intervention by the parties.
For whatever reasons, some voters didn’t — busy with work, or didn’t care enough, or whatever. The Democrats got this list from the counties — which was equally available to the GOPers — and set up a phone bank to contact these voters. By this time, there had been considerable media publicity, and in many cases the voters knew why the Democrats were calling — “this is about my signature, isn’t it?” — and had either already returned the signature cards or were planning to do so. No small number of Republican voters got off their inertia and returned signature cards because they got a phone call from the Democrats.
The Democrats relied primarily on their phone banking and voters taking care of the problem themselves after getting a phone call. However, there were still some people who either didn’t get a signature card with the auditor’s letter, or lost it, or didn’t return it for whatever reason. Given a desperately close election, the Democrats sent volunteers into the field to contact these voters in person, in an understandable effort to round up every last vote. Was this legal? Yes. Was it dishonest? No. It was incredibly hard work for the volunteers, who had to drive around neighborhoods trying to find addresses, and make repeated return visits because 95% of their contacts weren’t home. Although their mission was to get signatures of Democratic voters, I don’t know of any case where the volunteers refused to accept or failed to turn in a signature of a Rossi voter. The volunteers were instructed to identify themselves as working for the Democrats, and if a Rossi voter didn’t want to trust a Democratic volunteer to turn in his/her signature, he certainly knew who he was talking to. It is likely that these home visits prompted some Rossi voters to turn in their signature cards later, and it is also likely that some of the signatures collected by the volunteers validated votes for Rossi.
Did the Democrats make extraordinary efforts to milk the cow for every last possible Gregoire vote? Yes. They would have been stupid not to. The Republicans didn’t make a comparable effort, which was stupid on their part. It’s ridiculous for them to criticize the Democrats for doing what they failed to do. Go see the movie “Million Dollar Baby” and pay particular attention to the sign in the gym: “Winners are people willing to do what losers won’t do.” That is so true. In a close race, the winning candidate is the most diligent campaigner, the one who keeps working hard right up to election day, and the one whose organization never gives up and keeps working for the very last vote. That is what the Democrats did, and they were repaid for their effort with a win. This time around, they were the team that stayed in the game up to the very last play, and put points on the board after the other team had gone back to the bench.
The Republicans have no one to blame but themselves for putting out a 98% effort when it took a 100% effort to get the job done.
RDC @ 20
How would it prove useless? One signature of person X is on the affidavit that partisan campaign staff collected, another signature of person x (the voter registered at the address in question) is now on a check. Seems to me this is a way to compare signatures. And yes, an expert can tell if it is the same person, even if the “change their signature”. There are certain things like spacing, arches and points to compare and contrast that one cannot change even if intentional.
Goldy @ 9–
Any moron (even you) could have figured out, if you weren’t so blindly partisan, that there would be some due diligence done on those provisional affadavits.
To refresh your faulty memory (which may be attributable to combining Prozac with a couple B.C. Bud joints Goldy)…….
These affadavits were gathered in a couple days by Democratic Party Activists deperate for every vote possible. There was a small army of Leftist Loyalists out there scowering the streets for signatures. In some cases, they brought in both new signature cards AND affadavits. Well of course those would match DOOFUS!!! The question is:
Where any LEFTIST loyalists overzealous in their desire to “bring home more votes for Gregoire”.
In addition, it’s this incident that triggered Berendt’s legendary “bawling on TV” incident where he sobbed about his whole life being devoted to making sure every vote was counted.
I believe he omitted the adjective LEGITIMATE in front of vote.
Berendt delivered all these affadavits personally. He was attested to the validity of every single one of those affadavits. Berendt put his personal reputation and integrity on the line IN A VERY PUBLIC WAY!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course someone is going to do a simple “due diligence” just to double-check Paul’s honesty. What will be shown??? Stay tuned. If even 1 of those affadavits is illegitimate, Berendt certainly ought to be held accountable as he brought them in attesting to the validity.
It’s called ACCOUNTABILITY Goldy.
If all is ok…some of your fellow LEFTISTS picked up a simple $10!!! They can donate it to MoveOn.org…or maybe Gregoire’s November, 2005 Election campaign.
Goldy, you seem to avoid accountability or seeking the truth at every turn from KingCo Elections down to something as simple as this. I’m really beginning to think paranoia is setting in for you Goldy.
Perhaps increase your Prozac intake and lay of the B.C. Bud for awhile dude.
Don,
You are dead wrong. The counties did not notify voters. KING COUNTY did. There was not a uniform standard to this partisian vote mining operation across the state. There are over 75 ballots with signature issues on a shelf in Lewis County right now. The auditor would not allow 3rd part collection of affidavits. How about the logger who couldnt leave his job site in the woods to sign his ballot? Were his contstitutional right to equal protection stomped on. I say yes. How about the emergency room Dr. in Thurston County that voted for Rossi who was on a double shift and couldnt leave the hospital, the auditor would not allow his roomate to get an affidavit. These people were disenfranshised by allowing King County to do what ever the hell they felt like to allow Chrisqueen her rightful place on the throne.
Rex @ 10
I agree – why is OK for a sobbing Paul Berendt to send out his volunteers to mine additional Democrat votes under the pretense of signature verification and it’s somehow terrible that the BIAW figured out a clever way to discredit the illegal votes? No party had a monopoly on being devious – it’s politics, right? Somebody needs to clean up the voter rolls and it certainly is not ever going to be Kremlin County. The Democrats want to count all the votes – legal and illegal, they need them to maintain power.
Angryvoter @ 22
If you would like to know some of the reasons they are useless, check out the story in today’s Seattle Times. I think the link is in Goldy’s post. And don’t fret; someone from the Ds will do or say something utterly stupid soon enough. There is a line in Pride and Prejudice, spoken by Mr. Bennett near the end of the book, that is appropriate here: “What do we live for, but to make sport for our neighbors, and laugh at them in our turn.”
angryvoter is correct Don.
Unfortunately, there was a terribly unclear decision made on this issue by Judge Lean Dum (wasn’t that his name???) opening the door for a clear equal protection contest.
Many County’s were very confused by Dum’s ruling. They gave instructions counter to the KingCo decision.
Let’s just see what turns up on this affadavit issue. It truly was part of the “crazy-making” in this Governor’s Race. I mean just picture the Left WingNut Volkswagen Love Van driving around with “I hate Bush” stickers contacting all these provisional “voters” asking them who they voted for…handing out wildflowers, incense and “love-beads” to all who said “My vote was for Chris”. Goofy…at best.
I am railing the “Democrats” for adding votes as the is exactly what happened. First during the election and then during the recount, the elections offices said, “this is all the votes”.
That position was completely changed upon the 3rd and final hand recount, suddenly elections offices were finding ballots stuffed in their socks, back yards and under their beds.
My vote was not counted, not because of an error on my part but because some clown who should not have had a position of authority was placed where they could do harm. Quite Frankly, were it not for the fact that Larry Philips discovered his vote did not count, we would have never even heard about this. These votes were re-submitted, not because a registered voter was disinifranchised, but because a member of the King County Council had been.
To date, no-one has been held accountable and this is where I am just furious. I am tired of City, state and County jobs being some final destination for people who would be otherwise “unemployable” yet they became sacred cows in a public office.
Saying that no-one has proven that Dean Logan has done anything wrong in this election is like blaming the sinking of the Titanic on the Iceberg. Proof that Dean Logan should be replaced can be found in the complete loss of faith in the state election system, the fact that both parties are rallying around the flag pole for election reform and that the last election was overturned due to the swing in mistakes caused, primarily in King County.
The man RUNS the election office, the election has been widely discreditied and no-oe can show he’s done anything wrong?
That’s it, I’m sold. Have hime fired so I can hire him to do my taxes, which willbe resubmitted several times after April 15th.
Don @ 21.
I was one of those people who voted for Rossi and was HOUNDED by Democratic Party reps trying to get a signature.
Seriosuly, I was called and visited on no less than 10 different occassions, more ofetn than not at 9 or 10 at night. As soon as I mentioned that I woud never have voted for Gregoire, I was either hung up on or the person just walked away from my door.
Finally, I called te republican party and requested a couple of volunteers to come and get my signature, just to ensre my vote would count.
angry @ 24
Can you explain why it’s King’s fault, and not Lewis’s or Thurston’s? And were these counties certified at the time?
Rick @ 25
“under the pretense of signature verification?” That wasn’t the pretense, that was the reason–verifying signatures in order to count validly cast ballots. It’s OK because it’s legal and there was no deception involved. The people who were contacted knew why they were contacted. That’s clearly NOT true of the BIAW’s actions.
Cynical @ 27
If it’s such a clear equal protection argument, you should mention that to Judge Bridges, who dismissed them out of hand.
Priek @ 28
What votes were “found” in King? The 723 were not suddenly apparent; they were reviewed in the initial counting process. Of the 22 found in voting machines, 20 were rejected because their security could not be guaranteed. If the County were so juiced about finding votes, why did they reject 98% of the ones they actually found?
I don’t understand why your vote was not counted, either. If it was validly cast and could be matched to the paper record of your signature, it was counted.
Link to evidence of a “complete loss of faith?”
Link to evidence of the election being widely discredited? What constitutes wide in your view? The WSRP, BIAW, Stefan Sharkansky and John Carlson? Gymansts have fallen off balance beams wider than that.
I remember a case where a detective needed some DNA from a suspect. they sent the suspect something in the mail, maybe a check(?), but he had to return the s.a.s.e. to the sender. The suspect licked the envelope and provided ample DNA.
I think what the BIAW did was very creative. kudos’, besides that, they give contractors refunds on their workers comp premiums. But of course giving a little contractor a few dollars in his pocket would be a bad thing, right?
Priek–you’re contradicting yourself all over the place. First you say your vote was not counted, then you say you called the GOP to come get it so it could be counted. Shouldn’t you blame the GOP if they didn’t turn it in? What had your pants frozen to the chair that prevented you from acting on your own behalf? And shouldn’t you be THANKING the Democrats for alerting you to the problem with your vote–seeing as how the GOP never contacted you with the same courtesy?
chard @ 31
so the BIAW are the police, and voters are now suspects? There’s an interesting viewpoint.
Torridjoe…
If this is such a clean election, why is everyone from the Governor on down screaming for election reform?
This is not a partisan issue. Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Vegetarian and Jews for Jesus alike are all out and saying,” this is a BIG problem”, I do not trust the election.
But, you asked for proof, sor here you go, (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....orm12.html, http://komonews.com/stories/34698.htm, http://www.governor.wa.gov/ele.....fault.html) to name just a few
Gregoire herself considers this Governship to less tha legitimate.
Toridjoe…
I am not contradicting myself at all, your just in denial.
While the Democrats may have been contacting me, they would not take my signature, even when I asked them to.
I went down to the King county elections office on the day that larry Philips was holding his press conference to make sure my vorte was counted and was tol to go away.
Then I called the washington State Republican Party and asked them to come out to my work and get my signature, to make sure my vote counted
tj–
This is a 129-vote margin contested election.
LEFTISTS harvested these affadavits selectively.
They KNEW they needed to gain Gregoire votes.
Were they overzealous (aka cheaters & liars)…time will tell.
Perhaps we should all take a deep breathe and await the hard evidence at the trial…hmmmm?
cynical @ 36
all stipulated. What’s your point? You’re not describing any wrongdoing or unethical behavior.
Priek @ 31
“screaming?” That’s a pretty qualitiative judgement. I think it’s clear to everyone how even minor flaws can look serious when the election is close (in fact, that’s how the SoS’s office views them–the problems were minor, and it’s only the closeness of the election that makes them “serious.”)
The links you provided mention nothing about a complete loss of faith or a widely discredited election.
And you have not cleared up the contradiction, I’m afraid. You have said these two things:
“My vote was not counted”
“Finally, I called te republican party and requested a couple of volunteers to come and get my signature, just to ensre my vote would count.”
Either you’re saying the Republicans committed fraud by not submitting your affadavit–or you have claimed two different things.
And again–why are you blaming the Democrats for legally trying to get votes, instead of the Republicans for not doing so?
“We are calling the folks whose ballots were rejected and then we’re going to their homes trying to help them to get their votes to count,” Berendt said.
Ryan Bianchi, communications assistant for the Gregoire campaign, said the canvassers knock on doors and ask if the person is a Gregoire voter. “If they say no, we just tell them to have a nice day,” he said. If they said yes, then they continued with the process.
http://archives.seattletimes.n.....signatures
just wanted to refresh y’all’s memory.
and before the intellectual dishonest accusations are let fly again, i am only posting that to say that McCabe’s position is no more tenuous that Bawlin’ Paul Berendt’s. Berendt is being garish in his duplicity. oh yeah…and he’s intellectually dishonest.
Toridjoe,
While you make a point of mincing words and taking one line in a remark, cutting and pasting and then satying I’m claiming two different things, see if this is straight forward enough for you.
get a cracker and have a snack – as I have some cheese waiting for you underneath my sack
4 months of rehash. enough already. it is in the courts. as I said in #7, let’s all calm down and see what the legal process determines…
Priek @ 40
Thank you. Now that you’ve moved on from muddled, factless warbling to pure personal insult, we can consider the matter settled and the conversation finished.
Rex @ 39
duplicity: deliberate deceptiveness in behavior or speech.
I don’t get it. The Democrats did what they said they were going to do. The BIAW didn’t.
Rex @ 14
All they have to do is call a couple of unions.
Torrid,
We have this document, called the constitution which guarntees equal protection of rights for all citizens. If one county was allowed to mine for ballots and another isnt, there was not equal protection of these peoples right to vote. What part of this logic do you not understand. TYPICAL LIBERAL, DO NOT LET THE FACTS GET IN THE WAY OF YOUR OPINION.
angry @ 44
the part of the logic I don’t understand is that your claim has already been summarily dismissed in court. It’s a bogus argument. Unfortunately for you, you’re the one with the opinion, and I’m the one with the facts. Would you like a link to the Chelan transcript?
Priek @ 17
After reading your post it’s extremely difficult for me to believe you voted Democratic, but if you did and you’re now a committed Republican for life, so be it. It’s a free country. Godspeed. It’s been nice knowing you, and we wish you well in your future endeavors. Feel free to come back if it doesn’t work out for you.
Give me a break.
I am sure that on other boards you are the same people bleeting about voting irregularities in Ohio, or how Gore won in 2000.
The bottom line is that in this instance and election was manilulated to your benefit and you standing behind that.
At the very least you could admit the election was questionable and now your candidate holds the office.
On a coincidental side note, have you ever compared a picture of Christine Gregoire and Richard Daley? Scarey….
angry @ 24
I agree there’s a lack of uniformity across the state in election procedures, but that’s because of our laws, not the fault of either party, isn’t it? And this is an appropriate subject for reform, but not a basis to set aside an election given those were the laws in place at the time, isn’t it?
Don,
Yes, with the exception of Gregoire and Deborah Senn, I voted a democratic ticket.
On a sidenote, I am wondering how many veterans are on this board?
Rush @41 The point of this is that the Republicans are trying to make political points off this by undermining confidence in the electoral system and in Gregoire specifically. I agree with you that letting the system play out is the best policy and will most of the time give a decent result. But what are we to do when people are harming the very tenets of democracy in the state for their own political gain? Democrats have tried to negortiate and compromise and have gotten rolled over for awhile now. For me, enough is enough.
Rex @ 25
I don’t have Goldy’s problem with BIAW’s signature gathering tactic. I think it’s within bounds. Police and private investigators use petty deception to get information all the time, because you can’t walk up to people and say “I’m trying to prove you voted illegally” and expect them to cooperate.
Priek @ 47
All the evidence thrown out so far that the election was manipulated hasn’t held water to say the least. Everyone seems to have followed the law, and officials from out of the state have calculated that WA had 10 times better accuaracy then the national average. Sorry your guy did not win….
Nindid,
I’ll wait to hear what Judge Bridges has to say about that last comment and would recommend that you do too.
According to The Seattle Times (”Builders group uses trickery to check out voters’ signatures“), the BIAW sent out a “housing trends survey” to 400 King County residents, along with a $10.00 “thank you check.”
Let’s see : deceptive requests in the mail with money, the deceptive purpose of which is to obtain people’s signatures.
I wonder if this action constitutes mail fraud.
False statements and actions carried out through the mail system can have consequences. Are there any prosecutors who post to HA for an answer for us?
Erik @54
I would remind you that those deceived were enriched by $10.00…Mail fraud for monetary gain is defined as an individual or institution enriching themselves from another while deliberately misrepresenting their product/service.
Concur with Don @51: No harm, no foul…despite appearances.
Erik @ 54
I’m neither an attorney nor a prosecutor, but I doubt this constitutes mail fraud, unless BIAW intended to use the signatures in some kind of identity-theft racket. Even if Mr. McCabe’s antics are actionable, I wouldn’t want to see him prosecuted. It is extremely doubtful he had any criminal intent, and he has already been convicted of being stupid (in this instance).
Don – the difference is that the police are, by law, allowed to lie to suspects to collect evidence in an ongoing investigation (that’s well established in case law). Private citizens (i.e. the BIAW) are not. There are, in fact, strict rules about recording conversations, illegaly forwarding private correspondence, falsely posing as a doctor, etc.
It’s not clear whether what they did was illegal, per se, but I seriously doubt anything they collected would be admissable in a court of law. But, as usual, that’s not what matters to them – the court of public opinion is fine.
Don,
Even it is questionable, what’s the problem?
I’m happy to see that people are upset enough about what has been going on in this State that they are actually taking action.
Our state Government stopped listening to the public long agao and it’s about time people started fighting back.
let’s face it, you need to work the same way the thieves in Olympia do.
Torrid,
WTF are you talking about? You need to hit that crack pipe again. Nothing has been proven or disproven in court at this point. That is why we are having a trial, dumbass.
jcricket,
You doubt it would hold up in court? How the heck do you know what the judge will admit or not? You dont, you cant and you wont. BS.
You doubt it would hold up in court? How the heck do you know what the judge will admit or not? You dont, you cant and you wont. BS.
Uh, try again. The courts have ruled, over and over again that private citizens are bound by very tight codes in gathering evidence. Hell, the police have to be careful and get warrants or whatever they’ve siezed is inadmissable. The BIAW has admitted that they deceptively gathered signatures under their own auspices. Inadmissable, on it’s face.
Remember the recent privacy ruling about the parent overhearing a teenager’s phone call? Same type of thing.
angry @ 59
I see you’ve given up the ghost and are now relying on personal insults to make your argument too, huh? Perhaps you missed the hearing on Feb 4, when the equal protection arguments in Rossi’s permission were flatly, summarily, completely tossed out of court. When the trial comes, there will be no discussion of equal protection, because it has been invalidated as part of the discussion.
In a state court you dumbass. There are these things we call appeals.
jcricket–
Gee, your LEFTY pals get $10 for filling out a form and you are complaining? I guess you would rather see them do absolutely nothing and get the $10??? OOOPPS….they could just cash the check without doing anything!! I’ll bet a lot of them did just that.
Typical LEFTISTS…support their ilk in getting something for nothing. Well guess what….they did!!!
Gee, why didn’t some of those folks deposit checks by endorsing FOR DEPOSIT ONLY and putting the check in their acct.??????
jcricket—you knew darn well someone was going to validate those affadavit signatures. YOU KNEW IT!!! Now you are complaining??? Of course someone should have tried to validate these signatures….of course.
I believe the majority of those signatures were valid. No problem….and they got $10!!!!! However, this was a Governor’s Race with a 129 vote margin. Just as the Dems pulled out all stops to harvest or manufacture every vote possible….the R’s have a right to feel those votes are legitimate.
If this is illegal….file charges today!!!!!!!!!!
You have said previously that the Dems are within their rights to do anything legal to win. Goose and gander dude.
Yeah, this was pretty sneaky. I generally think we should practice what we preach and rise above this kind of tactic.
But then again, when you get behavior like Paul Berendt failing to disclose where campaign money is being spent, clearly you guys all view elections as a game as does Don@21 above with the “Million Dollar Baby” reference, where winners are just those who go the extra mile.
So in that sense, and especially in that is appears to have defintiely caught a few people red handed, I guess all’s fair in love, war and politics.
Tough swallowing some of your own medicine isn’t it?
Shark is now promoting an election report by the Evergreen Freedom Foundation (Motto: Facing resolutely into the Eighteenth Century!) as “the real deal.” Yeah, EFF is a really non-partisan group, very balanced. The only reason they aren’t further up the Republican Party’s a** is that the BIAW is in their way. Their analysis of Equal Protection has about as much chance in court as an Eymann initiative. Next up, Sharky pushes a Discovery Institute analysis of high school science education.
angry @62:
Rossi can appeal on equal protection if he wants to waste more money…but the fact that Bridges has tossed it makes the threshold pretty high.
Cynical @ 63:
Your ranting over the $10 outs you. You know it’s wrong and you’re reaching for excuses. Typical Bush voter.
Face it, the BIAW made an underhanded, sneaky and lousy move. Tricking people pisses them off. If they want signatures validated then call the people in, tell them why and have them sign a piece of paper. Then have it analyzed. I realize that honesty isn’t exactly the strong suit of Republicans….but hey…it’s never too late to start.
lmao@cynicalidiot….what happened? away for a day and you came back thinking you are still living in San Francisco back in your hippy days…….take your meds little one…..life is too short to live in your fantasy world forever.
Jeff – Are you refering to the late paper work? It is a problem they did so and they are going to be fined big bucks for it… not quite the same as out and out fraud though.
Priek @ 28 you said ‘the last election was overturned due to the swing in mistakes caused’. I must have taken some of cynicalidiots medications by mistake. What last election has been overturned? Or maybe you are on the couch with cynicalidiot sharing his stash
Goldy says,
“It also demonstrates how fundamentally distrustful the Rossi camp is, of not just Democrats, but the voting public in general.”
In fact, Republicans just don’t trust democracy – period. What’s been going on for the last month or so, is a blatant attempt to subvert the system of democracy we all hold dear – – – under the banner of Patriotic Righteousness! The Repugs are “so hurt” by this terrible injustice – – – well, as they often say to Demos, “Hey, get over it”!
All you true Rossi believers out there – – – when are you going to realize the level of manipulation playing your every outrage? On the backside of that banner are the letters B.I.A.W. Ask yourself, why is it so important to them?
Underhanded, sneaky, tricky, dirty, yeah those are all pretty good words to use to describe the BIAWs tactics.
Fraud, uh no. Would it make you feel better if this had been done by the FBI instead of the BIAW? Police do this kind of thing all the time. Where I work in Tacoma, there’s a bit of a prostitution problem on the street. Often the police will dress up one of their own as a prostitute and wait until a “John” comes by to pick her up and then swoop in to nail him. It’s a sting.
Nice try Nindid@68.
Hey man you gotta look at it in the light of smart tactics of information gathering, makes me think of Mission Impossible or something like that. A+ for creativity, you have to admit that even if you don’t support it.
Jeff – I think the key distinction is that the BIAW is not the police (wondering if putting it in bold will make a difference). The police operate under different (but not wholly so) rules than private citizens, which the BIAW clearly is.
A private citizen, for example, cannot put a wiretap on your phone line, no matter how much they suspect you are cheating them out of money or plotting to kill them.
A private citizen cannot search your home, or even apply for a warrant to do so.
And a private citizen has to tread very lightly in gathering any evidence that they later want used in a court of law. The police have far more latitude (and for good reason).
jcricket @ 75
What they did was not illegal They paid the person for a service not the one they thought but still they were paid. The people willingly relenquished their signature for the ten dollars, it’s not like someone forced them to sign it, deceptive yes, illegal no.
angry @ 24
“The auditor would not allow 3rd part collection of affidavits. How about the logger who couldnt leave his job site in the woods to sign his ballot? Were his contstitutional right to equal protection stomped on. I say yes.”
His issue is with the auditor who didn’t allow third party signature collection, not the Democrats or King County.
The equal protection concept doesn’t translate into an argument that if he can’t have something then King County voters can’t have it either.
adriel @ 76
I think you could be right, but jcricket has the far more important conclusion–can they USE what they got under false pretenses? It didn’t even take a judge for people to disclose that they sign different documents differently, depending on what it is, or whether it goes through the mail. A signature obtained under false pretenses may not break a law, but it may also be extremely tough to be used as a valid example of a signature for an official document. And that’s really their point, to declare their registrations illegal in court, on the basis of unmatched signatures.
Wayne @ 66
The Asst SoS told me no one has been less accurate or partisan than EFF. :)
uh, less accurate, MORE partisan.
carla–
With $10..you could buy a 10-year supply of razors !!
Or you could go to the co-op and buy a big slab of that yummy free-range tofu all the LEFTISTS rave about.
With $10, you could probably buy $20 worth of food stamps on the black market.
And I thought I was cynical…my goodness you self-righteous LEFTY’s seem to have briefly found morality.
I’m sure you Left WingNuts condone the actions of MoveOn.org bussing out-of-staters into Wisconsin to register and vote.
The end justifies any means.
This is all quite hysterical.
jcricket–you absolutely KNEW someone was going to try and validate all those Berendt affadavits. If Berendt is capable of hiding last minute donors in the last 2 general elections and then blaming his staff….he is capable of anything.
You LEFTISTS are hysterical.
The only one of you with any cajones is my buddy Don.
He knows politics is a “full contact sport”.
That’s why he has no problem with what was done here.
If everything with those provisional affadavits was perfect as Berendt PROMISED….who is harmed?? The head of BIAW is the only guy looking at these checks and signatures. It’s not like they are being forwarded around the State.
You pinheads never cease to amaze me with the ways and degree to which you can be offended. GROW-UP PINHEADS!
Don…how can you affiliate yourself with these weak-kneed, limp-wristed crybabies!!?
Cynical @ 27
No, he isn’t.
Priek @ 29
You’re welcome to spout your venom, but get your facts straight. You weren’t contacted at 10 PM. The phone banks shut down at 9 PM. That was an ironclad rule. No one was called after 9 PM.
One more thing:
Priek @ 17 (posted at 1:16 PM) — “I voted democrat”
Priek @ 29 (posted at 1:57 PM) — “I was one of those people who voted for Rossi”
Which is it? Did it take you only 39 minutes to forget who you voted for?
I would remind you that those deceived were enriched by $10.00…Mail fraud for monetary gain is defined as an individual or institution enriching themselves from another while deliberately misrepresenting their product/service.
After conduction some iron clad internet searches, I am not so sure that the BIAW is out of hot water.
The $10 gig is specifically listed as a form of fraud in the right cimcumstances. Did the BIAW do this?
Impersonation
A number of schemes which misrepresent the identity of the sender, delivering forged documents or bogus requests for personal info (see Bank fraud, Phishing) have also been perpetrated by mail; one version involves sending bogus forms which claim to be from taxation authorities requesting or demanding banking info in order to collect tax on deposit interest. The information obtained is then used in other frauds or in theft of identity schemes.
Promotional cheques
It looks like a coupon and is formatted to appear like a cheque; “oh look, XYZ long distance company wants to send you $10”. Look a little more closely and this supposed “cheque” contains slippery fine-print wording which authorises the company to change your default telephone long-distance carrier or incurs other obligations on your behalf.
Hmmmm. Looks close.
Don–
Priek clearly stated he voted Democrat except for Rossi and McKenna. You are up to your old tricks of cut, paste and confuse you little dickens!!
If you don’t stop it, I’ll send Mrs. Cynical over to clean out your refrigerator! She’s been known to clean out a 19 cubic footer in the blink of an eye including downing a 4 lb. spiral ham in a single gulp.
When I married her she was a beautiful conservative Republican.
Then she started off on the New Age stuff and hooked up with the real Kooks (like Goldy), put on 300 lbs., became an angry Leftocrat with no self-respect or self-control.
Priek @ 35
“I am not contradicting myself at all, your just in denial.”
This from a person who can’t remember for 40 minutes at a stretch who he voted for?
Let me explain something, P. The 735 ballots and the signature ballots are two different things, okay? The 735 includes the 573 ballots rejected by KC election workers because of signature mismatches. These voters weren’t notified, nor were they on the list of absentee ballots with signature problems given to the parties by the county in early November, so if you were one of these voters you were NOT contacted by the Democrats or anybody else about your signature. If you were contacted, then you are NOT one of the 573. There was zero overlap between those two lists.
Yes, I believe you were contacted by the Democrats multiple times, because I know other people were. In a perfect world you would be contacted once and scratched off the list after someone talked to you. The Democrats apparently weren’t that well organized. This work was done by volunteers and for the most part they had a different crew working the phone bank each day. So there was some duplication of effort. And people who are hostile to the Democrats to begin with perhaps feel they were harassed by the repeated calls. They’re entitled to their feelings but this is a free country and the political parties do have a free speech right to approach voters. If you don’t want to talk to them, all you have to do is say “no thanks” and hang up, although please remember that these volunteers are donating their time and effort to our democracy and don’t deserve to be treated rudely. Be that as it may, if you were contacted multiple times, then you are NOT in a position to complain that the Democrats somehow got an unfair advantage because Gregoire supporters knew their ballot had a signature problem and you didn’t. Very few, if any, of the people contacted by the Democratic phone bankers or field workers were in the dark about why there were being contacted.
Now, it’s a fact that the Democrats only had a list of ballots being held by KC Elections for signature cards, and didn’t know who those voters had voted for. To begin with, all of those people should have already received a letter from the county. There was extensive media publicity about the signature collection. If someone called you or came to your home, and you still didn’t realize your vote had a signature issue, then at that point it has to be your personal problem. If 98% of the other people could figure it out, but you couldn’t, then surely the explanation for it rests with you and not with an extrinsic person or entity. God helps those who help themselves.
Erik–
Did you play football without a helmet???
Goldy……tactics or outcome that you are not happy with? If it’s the outcome you may be in for bigger disappointments…….
Cynical @ 36
“LEFTISTS harvested these affadavits selectively.
They KNEW they needed to gain Gregoire votes.”
Of course they did. So? They had no obligation to help Rossi. That’s not what they were doing it for. Collecting Republican signatures was the GOP’s responsibility, and they failed their candidate miserably. What part of this don’t you understand?
Cynical @ 80:
With $10 I could buy several rolls of duct tape to cover your mouth and tie your hands behind your back, too. But I digress.
Yeah..this is hysterical alright. You’re acting hysterically. So hysterically in fact that it’s dead giveaway as to how untoward the BIAW issue is. You’re actually have to scramble to come up with neato excuses for it.
Incidentally…blathering on about the affadavits and signatures in the same mundane and uninformed manner doesn’t change what this is: your hysterics.
angry @ 44
You’re making the mistake that non-lawyers always make when they try to interpret the Constitution or other laws. You read the words, then assign a vernacular or popular meaning to them — and end up with a wrong understanding of what the law actually is. The words “equal protection of the laws” are very precisely defined by the courts. It is the courts’ definition, not yours, that applies. Got that?
What you’re basically saying is that if Lewis County didn’t allow 3rd party signature gathering, then King County couldn’t do it. You’re wrong. Elections in Washington are administered at the county level. Lewis County and King County are separate jurisdictional entities, and are autonomous from each other. Neither has power to tell the other what to do. Lewis County can’t veto 3rd party signature gathering in King County by saying, “We’re not allowing it, therefore you can’t do it either.”
If there’s an equal protection issue here, then it goes to the validity of the state statutes that give the counties this autonomy and independent decision making in the first place. If equal protection requires uniform procedures throughout the state, then our state election statute is unconstitutional. That’s how you have to approach it, and if that’s what the courts ultimately decide, so be it.
Priek @ 47
How come it wasn’t questionable when Rossi was ahead? Huh?
Priek @ 49
I’m a Vietnam veteran.
torridjoe @ 78
it could be enough to get the individuals to sign their signatures before a judge in court, But I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
The $10.00 check issue was covered on tv this evening along with information that Roosi just filed charges with the PA regarding illegal votes and illegal voters.
Erik,
Laughable, but if you are bent on doing something, do it.
I am not a member of the BIAW, but if I were, I would want to know why $4000.00 was spent on this nuttiness…does that help your piety? Or are you just petty…
Priek @ 58
What has been “going on” in this state is that the majority of voters prefer to elect Democrats instead of Republicans.
U.S. Senate: 2 Democrats, 0 Republicans
U.S. House: 6 Democrats, 3 Republicans
Statewide Offices: 6 Democrats, 2 Republicans, 1 Nonpartisan
Legislature: Democratic majorities in both houses
Good God, man! You Republicans act like you think every voter in this state is a Republican and “Democrats” are a small band of conspirators who sit at computers manufacturing ghostly votes in order to deprive 6.1 million Washingtonians of the government they really want. You live in a bubble, and only what you want to see and hear gets inside. Consequently, in your fantasy world, people who don’t agree with you simply don’t exist!
We hear all this garbage about how Democratic voters in King County thwart “the will of the people.” WHAT people? King County has 35% of the state’s population and voters. Over half of the state’s population lives in King, Snohomish, and Pierce counties. OF COURSE the voters in those three counties dominate the state’s politics — they are the majority of the population and voters!!!
Eastern Washington has 20 of the state’s 39 counties, but only 22% of the state’s population. That’s right 78% — nearly four-fifths — of Washington’s population lives west of the Cascades. Moreover, the bulk of eastern Washington’s population is concentrated in four cities: Spokane, Yakima, Tri-Cities, and Wenatchee. The rest of eastern Washington has only a tiny, tiny percentage of this state’s people and voters. And E. Wash’s most populous county, Spokane C., is close to evenly split between Democrats and Republicans.
My point is, by what right or logic do eastern Washington Republicans think they should run the state when they comprise maybe 15% of the state’s voters? Bottom line: This is partisan bitching, nothing more.
Cynical @ 64
Aren’t you taking a bit of license in assuming those 400 alleged felons are “lefty voters,” Cyn? From the information we have so far, which admittedly is very limited, the overwhelming majority of known felon votes were for Rossi.
Maybe the BIAW sent those checks to their membership list, LOL!
Jeff B. @ 65
“I guess all’s fair in love, war and politics.”
Your side seems to think so, such as declaring yourselves the winner before the recounts are over.
Jeff B. @ 65 (Part 2)
“Tough swallowing some of your own medicine isn’t it?”
Not really. We’re in better shape than you right now.
marks @ 71
I agree with you this is a state matter for state courts to resolve.
Adriel @ 74
No, about a C+. They teach this one in Introduction to Criminology. It’s been around since at least Roman times.
Cynical @ 80
Where is Mrs. Cynical? Why hasn’t she shown up yet? Her husband got loose again.
Erik @ 83
No, not close, no matter how much you (or I) might wish it were so.
Cynical @ 84
Speaking of Mrs. Cynical, what have you done with her? Why has she disappeared?
Jpgee@28…
Regarding the definition of overturneing. Maybe you missed the difference between the electronic recount and the hand recount, but those results were overturned.
I am sure that the res of you little moot court, wannabe sea lawyers, are gonna go off on a tangent on that. However, I would recommend that you go back to clipping the fingernails off your gerbils first
Don @ 82….
I never said they called my house at that time, they came to the door.
As to the direction I voted, apparently your brain dead, partisan view only allows you to vote along one party line.
Personally, I recognize This bastardised Governor for what she is, that same vote applied to Deborah Senn. Fortunately, that was one that the legislature could not blanket in.
Now shouldn’t you really be in France involved in that pedophile court case?
Don @ 85.
Now you are just talking out of your ass.
Sure it sounds like you actually have a point, or have some back ground knowledge, possibly you do and this would mean you have something to do with the screwed up King county election Office -which would make this situation even better.
Everyone one of those 573 voters was contacted first by mail, asking for another copy of this signatutre for the file and then those were Misplaced (Along with eneough “misplaced” democratic votes to buy Chris “Daley” Gregoire the election). After which, the democratic party and The Republican Party called every single one of those voters trying to finf out how they voted.
It was at this point that the little rats (Democrats) started calling my house and ringing my doorbell.
So go back to your political masturbation, clearly you don’t have a clue as to what the hell you are talking about.
Don @ 96
you rightly point out that this state is controlled by Democrat. But at what cost?
Clearly this election proves that they will, at all cost, protect this last Democratic Standout as the Beirut of the West Coast.
Nothing made that clearer than the legistlative certification of that skank in Olympia.
How do you top a show like that? You have the Democratic Party make a case immediately afterwards saying that the courts in this state don’t have the right to make a decision of who is the Governor.
This states governments willingness to disragrd the voters opinions has been going on for years (Safeco field, Seahawk Stadium, key Arena, The Monorail) and the answer is always keep voting until we win.
It’s about God Damn time someone started addressing this crap.
As to the Majority of people in this State being Democrats. This State also has the highest per capita of:
Serial Killers
Homelss
mental Patient
Mental illness
See a connection?
BTW, Vietnam Vet Don? Was that you, the Homeless Vietnam Vet begging for change at the Freeway entrance?
call the lifeguard, someone’s gone off the deep end again!
Priek @ 108:
You’re babbling. Democrats came to your door and rang your phone. Whoopee. Republicans could have been doing it but they didn’t. They were too busy throwing out duly registered voters who’d registered as Democrats to bother.
Your hate filled screed toward Gregiore and Don not withstanding…you’ve not put up any evidence to back your meritless accusations. Babbling is all fine and good on SoundPolitics or other rightwing blogs…but substance matters to the left.
The law in Washington State is what it is. The courts cannot issue a revote. Period. It’s the law. All the tantrums in all the world won’t change that right now.
Your careless disregard for people that have served our nation in the military is reprehensible and disgusting, too.
carla–
“substance matters to the Left”
Isn’t bullshit a substance???
So is BC Bud and Prozac mixer (early-Alzheimer’s)
No one is saying “revote” carla.
However, the Court can & will set aside this election.
Brad Owen becomes Governor.
New election in November.
You LEFTY’s are having fun with that REVOTE thing.
I never believed for a second that would happen.
carla you need to remember that
“if you are silent, people will think you are a fool….
but if you open your mouth, you remove all doubt”
Also keep in mind Republicans are only responding to the precise wording of supeona’s. Not one thing more.
Has it dawned on you all there may still be much more to come??
You LEFTY’s are so impatient
I’ve been telling you for months…just wait until the depositions of Logan, Huennekens and the entire KingCo Election staff starts.
Sharkansky alone has enough questions to tie these fools in knots for weeks….
I’m glad you LEFTY’s have taken the bait…just like the check-signers.
I’ve got to admit…I WISH I HAD THOUGHT OF THAT!!!!
carla,
Your attempt at reconciliation with veterans was kinda funny. Maybe even sophomoric…but I am happy you made the attempt. Some people may learn from that display…
Laughable, but if you are bent on doing something, do it.
Only a prosecutor can charge someone with a crime.
The only missing element seems to be the matter of the profit motivation for mail fraud. All of the rest of them seem to be met.
Here’s the federal definition of mail fraud:
Title 18 § 1341. Frauds and swindles
Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, or to sell, dispose of, loan, exchange, alter, give away, distribute, supply, or furnish or procure for unlawful use any counterfeit or spurious coin, obligation, security, or other article
. . .
any matter or thing whatever to be sent or delivered by the Postal Service, or deposits or causes to be deposited any matter or thing whatever to be sent or delivered by any private or commercial interstate carrier, or takes or receives therefrom, any such matter or thing, or knowingly causes to be delivered by mail
…
be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.
Great, Erik, happy you have found a niche…
Don @ 88
You’ve recited another good reason to disbelieve those dems who whined about counting “every vote”. They meant every Gregoire vote. My beef is with Judge Lum for allowing such a lame way to collect the validation signatures.
jcricket and Erik
Give it up, McCabe took it upon himself to do Logan’s job. Somebody in KC Elections should have compared signatures on these affidavits long ago but apparently did not. If you think McCabe should be prosecuted for mail fraud, how about prosecuting Berendt for claiming in court he wanted to count every vote. He obviously had no such intention. Sounds like multiple perjury counts to me.
Cynicalidiot @ 111 you nailed it on the head this time……no one here has any doubts that you are fool….and the new Prick @ many posts is joining you in a hurry.
lol, sorry , typo Priek
Erik,
Where did the BIAW profit from this?
christmasghost @87,
I’m damned pleased with the outcome. The BIAW found squat, and created some damaging PR for themselves and the Rossi camp to boot. This is a great example of how one can be both clever and stupid at the same time.
Priek @108,
Ahhh… so you belong to the Tim Eyman school of democracy… you respect the will of the people only when they agree with you.
One thing that tends to get lost in all this is that governor’s race was still a statistical tie, regardless of the errors or felon votes. Voters were pretty much split between the two candidates. So when you start comparing Gregoire voters to serial killers and mental patients, you’re pretty much trashing half the electorate.
Cynical @112,
I’m not so sure you hadn’t.
The sadness in this issue is in the blog itself. Berendt and his boobs get popped for their second ethics violation in 4 years and Goldy doesn’t bother to post it on the website. BIAW plays a little loose with the rules and we get 120 different comments about McCabes behavior.
one of them broke the law and one of them didn’t. But, the leftwingers are all up in arms about the one who didn’t break the law.
What the BIAW did wasn’t right. Don’t care how you look at it. it wasn’t right. It’s what I have come to expect from Mr. Berendt and his extremely low standards.
The BIAW found squat, and created some damaging PR for themselves and the Rossi camp to boot. This is a great example of how one can be both clever and stupid at the same time
And, if a lame-ass recall can get heard in court, the BIAW might possibly find themselves sued for mail fraud too. Who knows if they’d lose the case, but that’s not important.
Oh, and if the Republicans attempt to use the BIAW gathered “evidence” in court, they’ll just manage to piss the judge off even more (like last time, when the Supreme Court rebuked the Repubs for failing to provide any evidence to support their allegations).
Every single time the BIAW trumps up a new “smoking gun”, it turns out to be false, misleading or a half-truth (at best). This latest scam of there’s is no exception (as the Times pointed out). That’s what happens when you, as the BIAW admits, start with a conclusion and then look for facts.
I’d given up posting on these Governers race threads since they’re largely to hysterical for my blood, but I can’t resist on this one.
I truly applaud the Reps that have stood up and said openly that this little move by BIAW was wrong no matter how you look at it.
I find reprehensible those Reps that are trying to justify it in any way.
I’m also a little more than disgusted with much of the Dem reaction to this…almost like glee over the other side getting caught.
We should all be outraged when anyone in any party pulls tripe like this. Essentially they are completely disregarding us as pawns in their stoogy political games.
This fabulous government of ours is ours not theirs. We should be defining the terms surrounding it not them.
I am sick to death of dirty tricks. Clean it up or start a new party and these two can thrash it out in obscurity.
Where did the BIAW profit from this?
Good question. That appears to be the only element missing.
The act was certainly deceptive, they obtained peoples signatures based on false statements in the letters sent if what we read is true.
As a result of the deception, according to press reports, they were able to acquire voters’ signatures who would not have given the BIAW their signature had they been truthful.
The disturbing thing is the premediation of their plan to intentionally deceive so many people and to then get indentifying information from them.
I don’t see how anyone’s going to trust the BIAW much after this act. As we are blogging, who knows what acts they are committing to obtain personal information from people. Is this just the beggining?
People’s signatures are usually held private and there are numerous technologies not to allow public access to this information.
The BIAW may look a little bit overzealous, but it seems that they followed the law. The $10 checks were legitimate, and if people want to sign and deposit them, they certainly can do so.
It is a lot better than the Democrats getting fined $250,000 (with $100,000 suspended) for not properly filing campaign finance reports in 2000. Now it looks like the Democrats did the same thing in 2004, and that the $100,000 from 2000 will now be “unsuspended” and payable, plus whatever fines arise from the 2004 violations.
The Democrats could have sent out a lot of $10 checks with the money they are going to be using to pay campaign finances fines.
If anyone has the BIAW’s $10 check, they should deposit it and enjoy the use of the BIAW’s money. Buy a couple of lattes at Starbucks. You don’t have to sign a check in order to deposit it into your own account. And nothing says that, if you feel compelled to “sign” in some way, that you can’t just print your name instead. Businesses don’t sign checks to deposit them — they just print their name, sometimes by hand but usually with a rubber stamp.
We should all be outraged when anyone in any party pulls tripe like this. Essentially they are completely disregarding us as pawns in their stoogy political games.
Yes, but the difference here that I believe this act was a whole new (lower) level of action.
Despite all of the press and name calling, I have not heard about either party to date making a large coordinated effort to deceive voters for the sole purpose to obtain personal information from them.
If the press reports are true that are coming out, the BIAW did not just engage in deceptive conduct in the abstract. They did it to obtain personal information from people which would never have been given willingly.
The million dollar question is did Rossi or his team know of the BIAW’s actions beforehand?
If so, I believe most Washington voters would take an extremely dim view of Rossi ever running for any office again.
Richard Pope…please. For one moment in time try to envision your reaction if the other side had pulled a *trick* like this.
It matters little whether it’s illegal. It’s unethical, immoral.
It shows how completely contemptuous politicians and their minnions are to we the voters. Nothing matters but their agenda.
I hope you can see the point.
Don @ 102 and 104
I appreciate your concern, and I am fine. I was waiting until Mr. C. finally passed out–he is such a mean drunk, and you can see how his posts go from semi-rational to utter nonsense as the evening progressed. As he drinks, Mr. C. is becomes apoplectic over these issues-especially without his meds (notice how he can spell Prozac so well? Guess why!).
The bastard says I am 300 lbs (a mild exageration) and he calls me a leftie. But, I am not sure if I am a leftie or a rightie. I just think people should be nice to each other.
This BIAW trick was NOT nice, and, I must admit, was very cunning. But, in the same way the 911 hijackers were cunning! They owe people an apology at the very least. Maybe it was really a publicity stunt? I don’t know.
Mrs. C–
I said you were 300 lbs. overweight dear.
The last time you were down to merely 300 lbs. was Prom Night.
I heard you get out of bed at 2:00AM….rather I felt you get out of bed (like a herd of hippos!!). Now I know what you were up to.
Honey, I know you want us all to have a “group-hug” and get along better. That’s a noble goal. Hell, your big enough to have a “group-hug” with yourself.
You know I’m having a little bit of fun at the Lefty’s expense. They are quite playful and oh so serious and oh so self-righteous. Goldy even thinks I’m almost a smart as the Almighty right about now….don’t you tell him how off base he is!!!
Goldy, Mrs. C wants me to have a beer and cigar with you when this is all over. I agree….mainly bacause it will NEVER be all over! Or will it?
I want you all to know Mrs. C is a real rural gal. Why she has been to the “fat farm”, the “funny Farm” and look for ways to get some of that slop at the guv’ment trough. She also does some incredible impersonations. We sell beef cattle….the other day a customer visited us. I told him he could pick out whichever cow he wanted my wife to slaughter and he pointed at her!!!
Goldy–
How do you suppose the Seattle Times found out about this signature validation program?? Hmmm??
I know you like to view yourself as a Progressive, Linear Thinker Goldy….but sometimes you are so simple. It’s endearing…yet ineffective. I challenge you to really think “outside the box” dude. It’s kind of like playing that MARCO POLO game with your kids in an Olympic-sized swimming pool. Goldy keeps saying MARCO from one end and we yell POLO from the other end. Goldy never quite catches us but he is all grins and giggles trying.
Don’t cheat and open your eyes GOLDY!
Carla at 110
As veteran, I can have any opion about other veterans I choose.
Priek@107:
Your political masterbating slur used on Don leads me to think if that’s what he is what are you? Maybe technical problems dropped your c and make it an e.
Eric@127. Re:- Most Washington voters would take an extremely dim view of Rossi ever running for governor again. I take that a bit further. I think Rossi has a hearing problem and besides doesn’t know when to flush. Rossi will go down as a household name along with Drano.
Eric@114.
One’s signature is private “property.” There appears to be a contractual violation based on “detrimental reliance and in the area of criminal law, an intent to misrepresent by fraud; fraudently obtaining signatures to be used for another purpose than the one stated. Fraud is an act of omission. There should be dearth of lawsuits both civil as well as criminal filed at the state and federal level against Rossi and agent who sent out the phoney survey. The culpable parties collaborated to obtain signatures, true intent of the survey not being disclosed but in fact omitted. The ulterior motive being to hid behind the building agency’s skirt. Under the Rossi doctrine, there are no stops. Nothing is sacred, not even our signature.
chee–short for cheet-o brain.
Like most “perpetually offended Lefty’s”, do what you are best at…hurl yourself on the ground in agony about being one-upped.
You LEFTY’s absolutely knew someone was going to check the validity of those Bawling Berendt affadavits the LEFTIST’s harvested from KingCo. You knew it…and now you are whining.
The point is..no one forced these Lefty’s to sign that check. As Richard Pope indicated, they could have deposited them in their account without a signature. Signing it was their decision. Signing anything gets your signature into the public domain. Have you ever looked at quit claim deeds, prison release forms etc. SOMEONE SIGNED THEM AND THEY ARE PUBLIC RECORDS!!! Plus, your boy Logan says it’s the citizens job to flush this stuff out.
You LEFTY’s want it both ways.
LAUGHABLE!
Eric@114. Seems to me Rossi had a profit in mind and a profit to gain. Whether such a profit might could clear the hurdles outlined in the mail fraud law is something for legal experts to mull over or even a judge if it goes that far and I hope it does. Rossi’s attempt to overthrow the election by obtaining evidence from a FAKED survey in hopes of gaining him a hefty salary in the governor’s mansion maybe considered profitable gain for Rossi if by hook or crook he was declared the winner.
Chee-to Brain–
Give it a rest dude!!
Mr Cynical@136. Public records nd their use is not a all encompassing as you think, that is if you`r stinking right. Public surveys are not all encompassing either. It is what you do with them, how you obtain them and under what false pretense you hid what you are going to use them for. Taking voters names from a regiatered voter’s list, then isolating those names you intend to have prosecuted along with paying them to incriminate themself by signing the opt-in check sent in the survey which Rossi camp wants to use for a match after the fact is a not what the voter roles can be used for. Prohibits do exist in spite of your not knowing.
Signing anything gets your signature into the public domain.
So, let’s see. Your signature on your medical records is public domain? Your signature on your cancelled checks are public domain? Your signature on tax forms are public domain?
You’re exposing your lie of being a CPA Cynical.
jcricket–
CHIRP CHIRP CHIRP CHIRP CHIRP!!!
You are quite a piece of work for someone on the guv’ment dole.
How many public documents have your signature on them jcricket??
A lot!!
chee @ 37 erik @ 114
Thats interesting, mail fraud. Is rossi tied to this on paper?
Surely that waste of oxygen vance, has his greasy fingerprints all over it.
How about filing a lawsuit over this?
Can a citizen file a lawsuit over this? What does it take to bring the republicans to court with these charges?
Do you think the ag would get involved?
How about it goldy?
Can you see where this might be beneficial to pursue?
It sure sounds like a wonderful way to slam the door on rossi’s ass.
I bet they used a scheme like this soliciting clients to sell 5th and 6th mortgages to in the late 80’s.
You evidently cant teach an old dog new tricks.
Diggindiude@142. Was it Rossi that used to sell siding or maybe I heard he was a car salesman working tables in a rebate hot box. I trust the $10.00 gimmick will be pursued by those in power if it is seen there is probable cause to do so. This was thug like, low down and dirty. Innocent people are being hurt by it. Bad-ass stuff. I believe G. Davis’s posting above summed it up rightly enough.
Cynical @128. Your jealous cause your not an ambidextrous jerk. Bet you can’t pat the top of head in a circle at the same time. If you can, I will send you $10.00 for your autograph so I can have a mental check ran on you.
Chee-to Brain–
Kool!!
Mr Cynical. Cancel my offer I found out Rossi has your signature, I saved ten bucks there but when I emailed your signature off to be anal-ized, I quickly got a reply back saying, your scrawl is so rare they want to frame it. I said Kool.
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