I had my half hour on the Carlson show this afternoon — which I think, after subtracting commercials, traffic reports and other interstitials, came to about four-and-a-half minutes of air time — and then Stefan had his turn. After calling me “sweet” and complimenting my fiction writing skills (oooh… I think he likes me,) Stefan ran out of canned outrage, so John had to change the subject to (dramatic chord) the felon vote.
Carla over at Preemptive Karma recently deboned some of the red herrings flapping about over Republican charges that a thousand-plus felons voted illegally in the November election. Carla points out that by making felons the crux of their election contest, Rossi’s attorneys have constructed a legal catch-22:
Rossi’s people (and the State GOP) are complaining that taking affadavits from felons is a nonstarter because a felon can’t be trusted to swear to the truth. Too damn bad. The law is the law. Rossi must prove that enough illegal votes went to Gregiore to tip the election to her (RCW 29A.68.110).
Mary Lane complains that the convicted felons can’t be placed on the stand because they’re criminals.
Maybe you guys should have thought of that before you hung your contest on the illegal felon vote, Mary.
My guess is, the Rossi people have thought of that. I can’t vouch for Rossi himself, but his lawyers ain’t dumb; they understand they have to do a helluva lot more than just prove there are more illegal votes than Gregoire’s margin of error. So I’m guessing this attempted hoo-hah over the thousand felons, actually has very little to do with legal strategy.
My intuition is reinforced by the fact that the Rossi campaign has focused its media efforts, not on the possible impact of felons voting, but on King County’s alleged negligence for allowing felons to vote in the first place.
Understand, these allegations can have no legal impact whatsoever. The court has already ruled that votes by felons will be contested as illegal votes under the statute — blaming them on official misconduct cannot change their status.
So why the extralegal effort to blame King County Elections for voting felons? Well this has long since ceased to be about winning an election contest. This is about delegitimizing the Gregoire Administration in particular, and Democrats in general.
Allegations of negligence or corruption against King County are so far off, they would be funny… assuming you find vicious, hateful slander funny. The (un)Sounders have ridiculed Dean Logan for saying that his department only has the authorization (and the ability) to remove felons from the roles when notified by the courts. But that’s exactly what RCW 29A.08.520 says… at least, through the end of the year:
RCW 29A.08.520
Felony conviction. (Effective until January 1, 2006.)Upon receiving official notice of a person’s conviction of a felony in either state or federal court, if the convicted person is a registered voter in the county, the county auditor shall cancel the defendant’s voter registration.
RCW 29A.08.520
Felony conviction. (Effective January 1, 2006.)Upon receiving official notice of a person’s conviction of a felony in either state or federal court, if the convicted person is a registered voter in the county, the county auditor shall cancel the defendant’s voter registration. Additionally, the secretary of state in conjunction with the department of corrections shall arrange for a periodic comparison of a list of known felons with the statewide voter registration list. If a person is found on the department of corrections felon list and the statewide voter registration list, the secretary of state or county auditor shall confirm the match through a date of birth comparison and cancel the voter registration from the official state voter registration list. The canceling authority shall send notice of the proposed cancellation to the person at his or her last known voter registration address.
Get it? On Jan 1, 2006, the law changes, requiring counties to do exactly what Republicans are accusing King County of not doing. Not surprisingly, that’s also the date the Secretary of State’s database is scheduled to go live… the database that actually makes purging the rolls of felons possible. As I’ve said before, if the current statute actually granted county officials the authority and ability to routinely purge felons from the rolls, the Legislature wouldn’t be adding a provision that grants county officials the authority and ability to purge felons from the rolls.
At the end of the show, John Carlson accused Democrats of being “utterly disinterested” in illegitimate votes, and he challenged his listeners to come up with the name of a single Democrat who has shown alarm or dismay at the thought of felons voting. Well John, I’d say that SSB 6419 — the bill that amended the statute above — showed quite a bit of concern over the issue of felons voting. And considering it unanimously passed both houses of the Legislature last March, I’m pretty damn sure you’ll find more than a handful of Democrats who supported it… not to mention former Governor Gary Locke, who signed it into law.
No… none of this is really about the 2004 gubernatorial election. This is about control of the Legislature in 2006, and more specifically, the governor’s race in 2008.
Welcome to the meanest, ugliest, longest campaign in state history.
Why is it so surprising the Pukes are focusing their energies on whipping up hate? It’s been their SOP since before I was born.
Don, Your SOP “since before you were born” has been to figure out how to get the taxpayers to pay your way. Kind of like the pigs in “Animal Farm”.
I rather doubt you will find many Democrats who santion the felon issue. The crux of the matter is that people are tired of Rossi’s boo-hoo and his being more wrapped up over his sorry ass not making the mansion than whether the letter of the law had been followed or not. What Rossi is speaks so loudly, Democrats can’t hear what he is saying.
Leuitenant JCH;
you never seemed to complain, when my taxes were paying for you in the Navy, while you were a cabin boy being used for missle practice. If you don’t like government services, move to Hayden Lake Id. where you can become a survivalist. or Canada…but you probably won’t get your Bush reduced VA benifets. Step up, set an example quit taking advantage of all the Government programs that you think are ruining our soceity.
torridjoe–
I received information from a google search done by a friend on “torridjoe” who identified you from a Virginia History Archives April, 2002 post as M.B. (I will NOT disclose your full-name here). He then called the State of Oregon, Multnomah Co. and finally found you as a City of Portland employee who works for Information Technology in the Fire Bureau.
Is this true?
If so, what hours do you work?
Do you post and analyze data on taxpayer’s time?
He also showed MB is the mastermind and an authority on Fantasy Football Leagues and many other issues.
Again tj, I respect your data analysis skills & perspectives, you contribute to a lively debate…although disagree with many of your conclusions. If this e-mail is true, I believe you owe the taxpayers of Portland a public apology and restitution.
Perhaps people like Attorney Don can help you justify your actions. I am 100% self-employed. No one pays me to post not do I do it on anyone elses time but my own (as it should be).
Goldy…is this true?
If so, were you aware of it?
What is carla’s status?
Cynical @5,
You fucking coward… you are NOT to use this as a forum for outing people, threatening to destroy their careers, while you… you BIAW brownshirt, hide behind your own pseudonym! You are NOT to use this as a forum for personal retribution against people who disagree with your politics!
I have defended people’s right to remain anonymous over on (u)SP, and I defend it here. If everybody was subjected to the kind of personal threats and hatemail I routinely get, nobody would post any comments at all… or at least, none of interest.
You have crossed a line. Consider this a warning.
[Comment removed at request of author. — Goldy]
cynical is a loser.
wow, someone has mastered the secretive data mining treasure called Google. Color me astonished.
You must really be afraid of what I write, to spend time trying to “out” me as if you’re the national custodian of propriety. That seems to be a recurring pattern with political partisans of the right–when people start talking the truth too loudly, your only recourse is to begin attacking them personally. (The left does it as well, but usually–as in the case of Guckert–when they start LYING too loudly). So I take it as a backward compliment that you took the time to try to find out who I REALLY am. By contrast, I really couldn’t care less who you are.
I write as my schedule allows. Your interest in that schedule is flattering, but not particularly relevant to the Washington election, is it?
Here’s another great post I read today written by a former conservative that perfectly deconstructs the mentality of our right-leaning friends here at HA and at (u)SP.
i think Cynical found all the info about torridjoe in the big binder. very amusing.
Wow – cynical is the creepiest kind of sore loser. His personal attack on TJ definitely crosses the line. What a coward! – to remain anonyous and threaten people.
goldy, what happened to your hit counter?
Goldy,Number 6, “you BIAW brownshirt!”…….Did you call Cynical a Nazi? I thought the Nazis were National SOCIALISTS….you know, kind of like Hillary and you? SOCIALISTS, Nazis, Socialists, Nazis. Get it, Goldy. I would think of all people, you would understand. JCH
#4 Don….Leave the honorable men and women in the military, police, and fire out of our discussion of how “guvment” parasite like you are pigs at the taxpayer trough. I figure Democrat hacks like you will always hide behind our men and women in uniform and say, “Hey, I’m just like them!”. Don, you, as a state bureaucrat, are NOTHING like them! You are a state union Democrat parasite hack. They have honor. You have your union. Get the difference?
wow, someone has mastered the secretive data mining treasure called Google. Color me astonished.
That’s what amused me about this; he had to have someone else perform the Google search and send it to him.
Anyhoo, TJ and Goldy have handled this well, and I think it would behoove us to move the discussion back to the subject of Goldy’s post, which (once again) is spot-on.
#5…..Damn fine post. Another “guvment” Democrat hack telling us that “all animals are equal, but cheating Democrat “guvment” hacks are just a little more equal than others.”
JCH @ 14, 16
“Leave the honorable men and women in the military, police, and fire”
employee who works for Information Technology in the Fire Bureau.
??
BM @13
I don’t know… what happened to my hit counter? I’ve never published my web stats.
whoa… sorry goldy.. i thought you had a hit counter… ick… my mind is mush.
oops, that’s @15, 17, not 14, 16.
TorridJoe [number 18]….Unless you have military service, or are on the front lines of firefighting, I wouldn’t go there. “In the Fire Bureau” and being a firefighter may be two different things!
tj–
I DID NOT “personally attack” you.
Nor did I seek you out.
I merely passed on information sent to me to try and verify if it were true or false. If that offends you, too bad.
I understand that various municipalities have written policies regarding personal internet access. Perhaps the City of Portland’s is very, very liberal.
I think it is bad for any government employee without expressed written permission of his or her supervisor to be politically blogging on government time using government workspaces in a government building with government computers. I am very, very sensitive to that. What you do outside that government building, government office, government computer, on government time is absolutely of no concern to me.
Goldy–you set the rules. Ban me if you must. I can assure you that many people before me knew of torridjoe’s identity recently. Perhaps it was a service to him to be made aware of this???
The difference between torridjoe and I is clear. I am a private citizen…he is a public servant. I refused to name his name and I remain open that perhaps torridjoe has the City of Portland’s permission to do what he is doing. Hard to image how that could be justified but……….
dumdum-appropriate name. Typical LEFTIST who will make stuff up to try and confuse the issue.
The issue is clear–
Is it appropriate for government workers on government time in a government building using government computers to do political data analysis and post on political blogs??
JCH @ 22
they may be–so the firefighters are all honorable based on the positon they hold, and everyone else who works with them is scum, based on theirs?
I can tell you the firefighter’s union is far more powerful and money-seeking than any of the civilian unions (not to mention those who are non-represented0>
dumdum @ ?? & ?
you are way off base on mr cynical being rob. not even close. and you my friend should be careful. what ever you know about people at K5, is private info and exposing that would be a crime wouldn’t it? I will call k5 and ask them, ok?
Why not? You probably deduct your expenses incurred doing the same from your tax filings.
Everyone gets some personal time at work, even people working for the public interest. If it doesn’t involve public expense, like paper for the copier, or long distance tolls, then what’s tbe big deal? Oh right, the big deal is that he’s using his five minutes of break time to not drink coffee, but to instead debunk you’re political biases.
Get a life.
Cynical–
you don’t view accusing someone of violating workplace rules a personal attack? That’s rich. Your interest doesn’t offend me, as I said it flatters me. But it sure appears to offend you.
The issue is clear–if you have no suitable response to the opinions someone presents, it’s best to stop talking about their issue, and begin attacking them personally.
Aaron–
It’s all about the City of Portland policy on the use of government time in a government office in a government building on a government computer using government internet access.
Please don’t try to minimze or justify this.
This is torridjoe’s “cross to bear”.
Frankly, I was very surprised to learn this.
I respect torridjoe’s analytical efforts…just disagree with some of his conclusions. However it never, ever dawned on me that he was a government employee until I learned about it UNSOLICITED!!!!
To say this is about a “5 minute breaktime” is ludicrous in this case.
Goldy, I know you have relied greatly on torridjoe’s data analysis expertise in your ongoing battle with another BLOG. Did you know torridjoe was a government worker Goldy??
funny how you would defend such an attack char.
torridjoe–
I’m NOT accusing you of violating workplace rules.
I’m ASKING you if you are.
The issue of our different political opinions is seperate. I have told you repeatedly in the past, before this revelation, that I respect you analystical skills although disagree on some of your conclusions.
Please don’t try and confuse the 2 seperate issues.
Plenty of us disagree…and will probably always do so.
This is an entirely different issue torridjoe..and you know it.
And I’m ASKING you if you deduct personal expenses as business expenses?
I repeat, get a life.
if you’re just asking, why do you believe I owe anyone an apology?
I know it’s an entirely different issue–I’ve been trying to point that out to you. You’re frustrated that there isn’t adequate rebuttal to many of the points I’ve made, so your interest is to SHIFT TO A DIFFERENT ISSUE.
Aaron–
Obviously you are angry.
Perhaps if you meditate for awhile, you will get a realistic grip on life and this serious issue.
What if ALL government workers did what torridjoe is doing??
Why should only he be “privileged”?
These are legitimate questions.
Aaron–you show the obvious disconnect public SERVANTS have developed toward those they serve. It’s disconcerting.
Cynical, “what is torridjoe doing?” What am I doing? I thought you were only asking.
torridjoe–
I’d be happy to shift back to a debate on the other issues.
So, you are meeting with the King County Election Officials when??
Can I be there with you so we hear the same thing at the same time???
It seems to me if KINGCO Elections really wanted the “truth” out, they would hold a public forum for all sides to hear the same truth at the same time. Why should you and a reporter be so privileged?? Let us know when. Perhaps Sharkansky can attend as well.
dumdum @ 29
i say one more time, you exposing private info about people that post on king5, sets you and king5 up to a law suit. get it?
They have heard from me already about it. monday a.m. i will reinforce it with them. also, rob is not mr cyn. so what ever you think you know, is wrong. I know exactly who rob is and it is not mr cyn. OK? if the initials “rgg” mean something to you, that is also wrong. perhaps you were misinformed, still, hacking someones private info, thats a crime i think.
Well, if you cheat on your taxes, in a way that takes revenue from the public and keeps you in the dough, all while adding to the deficit, then yes, that does make me angry. In fact, it makes me more angry than if TJ manages to find some time, while still meeting his responsibilities, to make some personal posting on the internet in a way that costs the public nothing. You make money, he meets his responsibilities and uses a little time. Big difference.
Written off that big SUV you probably own yet?
as much as a public attorney that makes 97,000/yr and posts all day on blogs?
Cyn @ 35
I’m not meeting with King. I have a phone interview with the Asst SoS. On my cell phone.
As for holding a public forum–I guess the live broadcast of the report to King Council (and promise of further repeat visits) was a secret affair that I somehow hacked into?
TorridJoe –
What does WA state politics have to do with you? did you vote in WA? I agree that if you are on the clock of the tax payers you should not misuse that time and resources, but since I am not an Oregon tax payer I won’t push the issue any further. This Blog is full of hipocrytes, people who jump to confusions, blind leading the deaf, and finally those who love spinning misinformation and here-say into a large web of deciet to try and prove their withering points.
Cynical @23,
The issue is clear. You are attempting to intimidate people who post here, by threatening to expose them for doing so on company time, public or private sector. Your goal is to destroy debate, by making people fear that there will be some retribution for expressing their opinions. And for that, you are despicable.
That is the last I’m going to say to you on this subject, in this thread.
Let’s all try to ignore Cynical’s cynical attempt to throw this conversation off topic, and instead focus on the subject of this post… the Republicans’ cynical effort to use this election contest as a means of undermining the Gregoire administration and destroying public trust in Democratic officials.
I posit that not only is the contest hopeless, but that they know it is hopeless, and that this is evident from the non-legal issues they choose to focus on. This whole contest is a propagandistic sham.
“This whole contest is a propagandistic sham.”
Kind of like your Blog? time will tell goldy, I am just waiting for the final ruling in this case.
Adriel @42,
No, my blog is not a sham, because I have always been perfectly honest about its propagandistic elements. I wear my bias on my sleeve, for everbody to see. And everybody reads my comments knowing where I stand on the issues.
Most of what I write is analysis and commentary. But when I present facts, I usually do a damn good job of making sure they are accurate. I have some pretty vocal critics here, but I don’t think even Cynical would call me a liar.
Cynical – it’s ridiculous that you have to resort to personally attacking people. TJ’s place of work is quite frankly none of your business.
You, chardonnay, and many of the other right wingers who come to this blog seem to be nothing more than partisan hacks, who, when they feel they can’t win on the issues, resort to going after people personally! You’re evil, rotten people who don’t respect public debate.
Respect people, or stop commenting on this blog. As Goldy says, you are crossing the line.
As to this contest – the GOP never really had much of a case to begin with. At the end of the day, Governor Christine Gregoire, much to Cynical’s dismay, will still be governor, and this challenge will eventually amount to nothing.
Goldy @ 43
My comment was meant more as an eye opener to others that think that what you write is God given fact and not just opinion. I have respect for the fact that you analyze data and try to peice it together the best you can, or choose to in some instances that’s the only thing I don’t like.
Goldy–
You have talked about a variety of issues of this blog.
You certainly have your spin…you & torridjoe have not always gotten your facts right (for example your claims that Spokane Co. was off reconciling by “thousands” of votes when in reality it was 77).
The idea of government workers on government time using government offices in government buildings on government computers using government internet access is clearly an issue.
You Goldy bitch & complain about Eyman and greedy taxpayers..you blame budget deficits are the Right..say we aren’t taxed enough yet turn an aggressive “blind eye” to situations like your pal torridjoe. I’ll bet with all the waste, including “personal time” in government, we could easily eliminate many, many workers who are being paid FULL-TIME for working HALF-TIME or less. The argument that if torridjoe gets his job done in 15 hrs. per week means he can blog the other 25 hours is ludicrous.
If he has more time available, perhaps his job should be CONSOLIDATED with someone elses.
Government workers (payroll, benefits & overhead) is a huge Budget line item. They owe us taxpayers 100% effort. For torridjoe to make the types of comments he has previously about taxes and not give 100% all 40 hrs./week is outrageous.
C’mon Goldy…this issue is a loser for you.
Come out on the side of committed, productive government workers.
Folks, there’s no need to respond to every childish rant or taunt posted here — and I completely agree with Goldy’s decision to leave those postings for all to see. The venomous, poorly thought-out “logic” speaks for itself and the grade school mentality of the poster. It speaks only to the like-minded and sways no one who is looking for information or honest discussion. No response is needed.
While I personally welcome civil discussion with those holding opposing political or philosophical views, I don’t have enough time in my life to debate the purposefully ignorant, or those who can’t act like adults in a public forum.
On the other hand, I’ve been around the blogosphere long enough to know this kind of advice will likely go nowhere. Carry on…
No Goldy—you aren’t a liar.
Misguided occassionally, yes
But a liar…nope.
Jenny time will tell, no sense in putting your foot in your mouth sooner than necessary. Truth is that we all need to sit back and not count or chickens…. I hope it goes my way you hope it goes yours, but you can hope in one hand and Sh*$ in the other.
Mr. Cynical,
What’s with the pathalogocal hatred of public employees? I’m not usually into name calling (I usually leave that to Rethugs – who do seem to excel at it in a 3rd grade way), but you’re really sort of pathetic.
I spent a year working for a City Council member, and one of the best things about it was we actually were able to help real people in a real way. Government is far from perfect, but I’ll take it over the business-driven war of all against all you seem to advocate any day of the week.
I figured I’d use my real name on this post to spare your little brain any extra effort. Google away, creepazoid.
jenny-
If someone is a government worker blogging on government time in a government office in a government building on a government computer on a government internet access, it is certainly the business of the citizens of Portland. I don’t live in Portland.
But torridjoe doesn’t live in Washington. Neither does carla. But they still have opinions on what happens here. OK.
The LEFTY’s always seem to “circle the wagons” when one of their own gets himself in trouble (ie Clinton) and will compromise their beliefs and integrity. This is why KingCo is so suspicious.
torridjoe–
The Logan/Sims press conference was a big joke.
I’m talking about an open forun where EVERYBODY interested hears the same thing at the same time about this BIG BINDER.
Logan explains and takes questions until we are all done.
What in the world is wrong with that??
Or does Logan have something to hide???
Logan should be much more available and forthcoming re” this BIG BINDER. Why would he subject himself to months of criticism?
My questions will focus on SOURCE DOCUMENTS and ALTERATIONS made to the SOURCE DOCUMENTS and RECONCILIATIONS.
I want to see a clear audit trail and accountability of all who have had access to or touch this data. UNDERSTAND?
So Cynical, if you got everything you wanted from Logan and found NOTHING would you finally shut up and go back to your BIAW hole to rot?
Cynical don’t waste your breath, SPIN, SPIN, SPIN where it stop we’ll never agree on so the dems will keep spinning.
“The LEFTY’s always seem to “circle the wagons†when one of their own gets himself in trouble (ie Clinton) and will compromise their beliefs and integrity. This is why KingCo is so suspicious.”
Um, OK, how about the right wing defenses of Bill “Loofah” O’Reilly, “Oxy” Rush, Tom “Ethics” DeLay, Ann “Hate Speech” Coulter, “Uncut” Guckert, Linda “It’s your duty to record a friends phone call unless it’s about George Bush or it’s given to Jim McDermott” Tripp, Dick “Fuck Off, I mean Moral Values” Cheney,
Not to mention the superhuman efforts of Rethugs to rationalize the misdeeds of George “AWOL from my sweetheart National Guard post/wouldn’t even admit trying marijuana/defecit spending/Lying to take us into war/wasn’t gonna do nation building before I got elected/Uniter not a divider” Bush?
Let’s just say the left doesn’t exactly have a monopoly here.
We are now nearing five months after the election. To no one’s surprise there hasn’t been a shred of evidence presented on this blog to refute what seems inescapably true – That there was incompetence and mistakes of a magnitude sufficient to void the governor’s election. There is at least a net 1800+ voter discrepancy that King County has admitted to. There have been claims that this difference is meaningless, but if so, where’s the proof? Where’s the proof?
cynical @ 46
I don’t know why you and the rest of the dittoheads at Sharkansky’s site keep repeating the “thousands” claim on Spokane. The original number was 976, not even a thousand. And that number was correct; it was simply unadjusted for courtesy credits.
But hey, it’s good to see you’ve moved on, back to the thread topic at hand. :rolleyes:
Kettle, meet Adriel. As if spinning is something only Democrats engage in!
No amount of proof that King County acted properly will ever satisfy any of you because in reality that’s not at all what you’re after. You’ll simply move on to try and uncover more “dirt” or play the inuendo game, which you’re all so practiced at, for as long as it makes political hay.
It amazes me how these Rossi supporters feign an interest in accurate elections when it’s all a big joke and everyone under the sun knows the ONLY result that would make any of them happy is a Republican victory. Furthermore, everyone also knows that had the results of the final recount gone to Rossi there would be no mock outcry from the right over felons or King County’s vote count accuracy or any of the rest. Talk about spin! The entire Rossi campaign and everyone behind it basically has to operate under constant spin in order to put on the appearance of having authentic intentions rather than the obvious, that they just want Rossi as governor no matter how that goal is accomplished.
zapporo @ 55
you can’t refute evidence that hasn’t been presented. How do you prove 1,800 isn’t meaningful to the count? How about by reminding you that it’s not an assessment of the count?
I don’t think any of Carla, David or I have opined that Bridges was wrong to rule that the trial could proceed (I haven’t verified this; I know I haven’t said it). The standard for getting a hearing is basically as you say: are there enough contested votes to exceed the margin? Yes. However, the discrepancy is not related to any of those votes.
That doesn’t have any bearing on whether their accusations are true or meaningful, or more importantly resolved by setting aside the election.
it depends what the definition of is IS.
Liberals “feel” it is ok for a gov’t employee to make a huge salary, but a president of a company is evil if he makes that.
How is it that a govn’t worker helps anyone more than an owner of a business that employs people? You place your level of “help” above everyone elses?
the funny thing about these liberals in govn’t jobs is that they think they are suddenly above those who work in the private sector. As if they invented our form of govn’t themselves and now they OWN it.
The truth is we are all over taxed so you can all have the high salaries & bennies and come to find out you spend your time on the web-logs. Fine then, don’t come crying to us because you need to raise taxes.
Antelope, Oregon, read about that and then think 2006.
maybe carla can read the astological charts and clafify it all for you.
matt @ 54
like bill clinton the draft dodger, i meen billy blythe
I defy wingers to find ONE government agency in the USA where the highest paid employee get paid 100-1000 times more than the worker at the bottom of the scale (hint – it’s a lot easier to find em in the Fortune 500).
The most “overpaid” Govt. worker I can think of is probably the President of the UW – and the $250k or so he takes home annually is a pittance compared to what the CEO of any private sector corporation with nearly 40,000 employees rakes in.
matt @ 54
like bill clinton the draft dodger, i meen billy blythe
Classic double example – Clinton avoids a war he opposes and that’s evil. W ditches out even though he supports it and that’s OK (and before you get into the whole “he served in TANG”, let me remind you that Dick Cheney, another hawk, sat the war out in college just like Clinton and tens of thousands of others).
Oh, and I would have thought that you family values types would support Clinton taking his step fathers name, but I guess being blinded by hate eliminates any ability to experience cognitive dissonance.
Dave @ 57
You are implying that we leave the illegal voters alone to vote next time around? If you found illegal voters that changed an election’s result to a candidate you didn’t support, you wouldn’t try to stop them and reverse the election? good to know that you are so extremely moral… wait make that a liar.
Jenny, you go girl, hate to tell you but partisan hack I am not, I am a truth seaker! I am always on the path of truth. if that path takes me to a fork with 9 different tines going 9 different places, I need to find which one will take me to the truth.
it will all come out in court. think scott peterson, convicted on circumstancial eveidence, the dreaded death penalty as that.
when you have mounds of evidence like the WSPR does, it’s powerful. But then again if it doesn’t fit you must aquit.
matt, do you not know about kennedy the murderer? who left his date in the car in the river and failed to call the authorities until 9 hours later?
How about robert byrd the ex KKK clansman recruiter? WHo is worse? I’m not sure, I think we all may have skeletons in the closet. clinton did it, bush did it they both became prez.
but, clinton is the only one that got caught with his pants down in the oral office.
Now ron sims is caught with his pants down around his ankles at the elections office with dean logan right behind him so to speak, and he will be voted out because of it.
fool us once shame on you, fool us twice shame on us.
What the heck is going on here? This blog used to be fun and mildly informative. Nowadays, it feels like I’ve stepped onto Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride after a big lunch of bad pizza. Even literate and sometimes insightful people (yes, I mean you, Don) seem to have gone off their meds.
Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe this place has just become a myopic, vitriolic MoveOn.org crosspost. And the insults and name-calling aren’t even creative or funny. :(
Maybe it is just inevitable blog entropy.
Me @ 66,
And both sides of the aisle are equally guilty of spewing this garbage.
It’s pretty obvious that BIAW and the Republicans are focusing on King County felons. From the numbers I saw, more than two thirds of the enumerated felons were from one county with much less than half the population. That’s because they recognize that the “We only have to show 130 illegal votes” argument is a non-starter. They are hoping the judge will buy a proportional allocation argument. Since King Co was 60-40 Gregoire, if the only illegal votes presented to the court are from King County, the Republicans have their best chance. (Kind of the reverse of the Gore cherrypicking the right was so critical of in 2000.) I just hope the democrats recognize the proportionality argument is not totally out of the question. To this end, they should be finding felons in the red counties to counter the Republican strategy. Just in case.
Mark: Couldn’t agree with you more (see me @ 47). For the life of me, I can’t understand why people respond to ill-mannered posters who can’t string a few coherent thoughts into a semi-literate paragraph.
I don’t know…maybe the next thread will be better :-)
Not to be too technical for those nuanced Republican thinkers out there, but I think vehicular homicide would have been the appropriate charge- for both Kennedy AND Laura Bush (look it up if you don’t know).
Sex in the oval office – bad judgement, but hardly unprecedented – infidelity on the part of the POTUS has a long and bipartisan history (I guess JFK did Marilyn in a swimming pool at the WH – lucky bastard). In the rest of the world, we’re pretty much seen as a joke for wasting as much time as we did on it.
Of course, lying about a blowjob is MUCH worse than lying about war, social security, the environment, missile defense, et al.
There is no evidence of any kind of government perpetuated fraud in the Wa State election, tinfoil hats notwithstanding. If 1000 felons voted (and a similar number probably did in every previous election also) those are the actions of individuals, not government.
I could support a 100% accurate (which seems to be the local standard now, 99.8 not being quite good enough) purge of the voter rolls as long as it’s the law (which it shouldn’t be – and I’d like some of the “strict constructionists” out there to show me where the US Constitution says you can purge a basic right for being convicted of a crime)- but Rethugs could give a rat’s behind about the thousands of lawful voters who inevitibly have their voting rights abrogated by these purges. Indeed, W’s big brother knowingly did exactly that in the Florida voter purges of 2000 and 2004. Where is the right wing outrage?
As for Ron Sims, I’ll believe he’s gonna get unelected when ONE serious Republican candidate steps up. In case you hadn’t noticed, it’s almost March and there still isn’t anyone remotely viable in the race for the R’s – and Pam Roach or Chris Vance just ain’t gonna cut it.
Goldy @43
You are a lefty, but certainly not a liar. I may disagree, ideologically speaking, but I can’t say you lie. This is your Blog, not mine, and I’m sure you prefer it that way…
tj –
Apologies for my last attempt to pin you down [previous topic](after reading your response, and following up, I found I had jumped the gun).
I frankly don’t care what you do in ‘real’ life. Portland is a city that can take care of itself. Your posts and comments are usually, if not always, well thought-out. I may disagree with the conclusions you draw, but you have every right to draw them…and, I suppose, some of us on the right will continue to question your parentage when they can’t refute your facts ;)
Cynical @ 5
You have too much time on your hands. You’re not self-employed, you’re self-unemployed. Get a job.
John @ 10
That’s all? When I clicked on your link, I was expecting to find a learned article on what motivates sociopaths to do the things they do.
JCH @ 15
#4 isn’t my post, it’s Dan’s post. Good grief, another r/w illiterate who can’t distinguish between “dan” and “Don.” Why me, Lord? What did I do?
Jerkoff Creepy Hater, do you go around with a bumper sticker on your car that say, “Hukt on Fonix rilly wurkt fer mee!”
Cynical @ 23
“Is it appropriate for government workers on government time in a government building using government computers to do political data analysis and post on political blogs??”
No.
char @ 38
Please identify the person you’re talking about so I can turn him/her in to the appropriate agency head. You don’t have to rat on this person; I’ll do it for you. All I need is a name.
Goldy @ 41
“I posit that not only is the contest hopeless, but that they know it is hopeless, and that this is evident from the non-legal issues they choose to focus on. This whole contest is a propagandistic sham.”
This is obvious from the fact that Rossi’s apologists on this board aren’t even talking about the election anymore.
Cynical @ 46
Do you bill the time you spend blogging on HA (and you clearly spend a LOT of time on HA) to your clients’ accounts? Not accusing, just asking. If you aren’t, how do you make ends meet by working only 15 hours a week?
Adriel @49,
No, there is sense in risking putting one’s foot in one’s mouth. To sit back and allow this contest to take it’s course, without commenting on the absurdity of it, is to allow the GOP to legitimize its message that this election was corrupt or mismanaged or stolen. The fact is, they have absolutely no evidence on which they can prevail in this contest. None. Zero. Zilch. They simply cannot meet the standard of proof for setting aside an election.
And when you look at their public statements, they’re not even trying.
At this point in time, it is fair to say the that the election contest is a lie, and they are merely using it for political advantage. The public needs to be made aware of this, so that when Rossi eventually loses in court, voters understand that we were all dragged through this for nothing.
Yes… Rossi has a legal right to proceed with this contest. But there is a political price to be paid for doing so heedlessly, and I intend to play a part in extracting it.
Cynical @51,
I was at the King County Council meeting, and nobody… I mean nobody asked Dean Logan a question about the actual reconciliation process. The GOP councilmembers focused on the felon vote (over which he had no control) or the voter-credit “discrepancy” (which has absolutely no bearing on the accuracy or integrity of the election.)
And now, you people are attacking Logan for not answering questions he wasn’t asked? What a load of McCarthyite bullshit.
Zapporo @55
The proof is in the process, and I’m not going to lay it out here again.
“The fact is, they have absolutely no evidence on which they can prevail in this contest. None. Zero. Zilch. They simply cannot meet the standard of proof for setting aside an election.”
We’ll see Goldy, I will gladly say I was wrong if it goes as you say however will you do the same if it doesn’t? or will pride get in the way of the truth?
“Of course, lying about a blowjob is MUCH worse than lying about war, social security, the environment, missile defense, et al.”
Bush wasn’t in court lying to a judge was he? AKA perjury that he should have done jail time for. I agree that Presidents should tell the truth, but I don’t see that happening anymore than I see election officials saying that they don’t know who won the Governor seat.
Wayne @ 68
“They are hoping the judge will buy a proportional allocation argument. Since King Co was 60-40 Gregoire, if the only illegal votes presented to the court are from King County, the Republicans have their best chance. (Kind of the reverse of the Gore cherrypicking the right was so critical of in 2000.) I just hope the democrats recognize the proportionality argument is not totally out of the question. To this end, they should be finding felons in the red counties to counter the Republican strategy. Just in case.”
I think that’s right on, and I have a feeling they are.
marks @ 71
accepted, and thank you.
Goldy @ 73
I can verify that there wasn’t any talk of reconciliation reports at the Council meeting. None. Those that were chasing a story, were chasing the felon and discrepancy stories. It’s only once the Times finally cemented the reality that the voter credit process wasn’t a reconciliation attempt, THEN the buzz started to be “what’s in the binder, why haven’t they shown us the binder?” Nobody’s asked for the stinking binder, remember? That’s how you know how much of a giant fishing trip this is. If the Rossi team, WSRP, and SoundPolitics knew anything about the elections process, they would have IGNORED the voter credit process and asked to see the ballot sheets the minute after final certification, if they thought something was screwy. So their new flurry about it, is totally disingenuous to me. That’s when you realize Goldy’s right–that this is becoming more a struggle to get Rossi into the mansion, than to reform WA voting.
Goldy @51 – It’s the fundamental question that you are avoiding. Where’s the proof? Just show me the link to the supposed proof. No one to date has provided any proof that the votes in King County were properly reconciled. It’s almost five months now. It is in your best interest, as a liberal, to help bring this proof forward, to settle this for once and for all and shut people up. Every day that this lingers on, it looks more and more like Tammany hall. And ordinary people become increasingly aware of how corrupt political partisans can steal an election. What is so hard about what’s legally required? If something doesn’t happen soon to right this injustice, that injustice will energize the Republican party in a way that Washington state has never seen. You can count on that. So Goldy, how about some real heart to heart honesty and some proof to go along with it. Unfortunately for liberals, I don’t see that happening any time soon.
Don @ 72
Oh well, maybe it was kind of old news.
This here is by a retired philosophy professor at Princeton. Funniest thing I’ve read in a while and applies perfectly to the winger bunch here and at (u)SP.
“Hukt on Fonix rilly wurkt fer mee!”
LMAO! That was rich Don. Nice one.
hey, cynical, have you stopped beating your wife yet? ;-)
zapporo @ 77
According to Sam Reed’s office, King has completely complied with all legal requirements for 2004 General Election.
Adriel @74,
That’s a ridiculous question. I have publicly stated Rossi doesn’t stand a chance. If the Supremes rule otherwise, everybody will know I was wrong. How could I possibly deny it? The Supreme Court ruling is what will stand.
Zapporo @77,
That’s the “when did you stop beating your wife?” technique. Let’s flip this around… where is your proof that King County didn’t properly reconcile? Huh? It’s almost five months now. Where is your proof?
And while we’re at it, where is President Bush’s proof that he does not receive kickbacks from Halliburton? I haven’t seen it, have you? Where’s Sharkansky’s proof that he’s not being subsidized by the BIAW? Prove it.
See, the fundamental issue here is that you have gone into this assuming Democratic officials are corrupt and incompetent, and demanding proof to the contrary. But it’s not their job to disprove your paranoid fantasies.
john @ 78
I think you’re going to be branded an elroy follower with that selection!
lol!
Goldy – It’s not paranoia. It’s what most “reasonable”, moderate people would like to see. We have the closest election in Washington state history. Thanks to you and your blog, we have taken a giant leap forward in our understanding about how votes are reconciled. We need confidence in the election process, something that is open, transparent, and non-partisan(fair). With over 1000 felon voters, 73 felon voters confirmed in Pierce county, nearly 400 confirmed illegal provisional ballots, and at least an 1800 voter reconcilliation problem, this is not obtuse, this is a reasonable desire for fair and accurate election election. Any reasonable person, liberal or conservative, should be willing to implement real election reforms and subject the results from this election to reasonable scrutiny. Any thing less reeks of politburo partisanship.
Adriel,
You are implying that we leave the illegal voters alone to vote next time around? If you found illegal voters that changed an election’s result to a candidate you didn’t support, you wouldn’t try to stop them and reverse the election? good to know that you are so extremely moral… wait make that a liar.
Not at all. What I’m implying is that Rossi supporters really don’t care about the illegal voters, they care about Rossi being governor. If the situation were reversed everyone from Snark to Chris Vance to talk radio to Rossi himself would be screaming for Gregoire to concede, accusing her of obstructing the office of governor, of undermining the integrity of our elections, you name it. This garbage about illegal voters is disingenuous to say the least!
All the right-wing shrieking is so transparently hypocritical that I’m just getting tired of hearing it.
Man, what a way for you all to waste a beautiful, sunny day. Mr. Cynical, chardonnay, Adriel et al should start their own blogs if they have so much to add to the discussion – but of course they haven’t.
Dave @ 84
“This garbage about illegal voters is disingenuous to say the least!”
Are you saying there were no illegal voters? are you really turning a blind eye to fact?
Get off your ego trip and realize that wrong is wrong and you are being the same hipocryte that you loath. I would stand behind you if our places were reversed because I believe that injustice is injustice no matter which side of the field you see it from.
Wayne @ 68
“Since King Co was 60-40 Gregoire, if the only illegal votes presented to the court are from King County, the Republicans have their best chance.”
Even if the court adopts a proportional allocation methodology, that shot isn’t as good as you think it is.
First of all, King County wasn’t 60-40; it was 56-39 (of 899,199 ballots counted, Gregoire received 506,194, Rossi 351,306), a difference of 17 percentage points not 20 points.
Second, even though the GOP alleges 884 illegal felon votes in King County (and 1,108 statewide), the actual numbers probably are lower — possibly much lower. The counting was done by amateurs, and these figures very likely contain errors (e.g., cases of mistaken identity, and “illegal” felons whose voting rights have been restored). Even if the judge doesn’t require the GOPers to prove who the “illegal felons” voted for, he will require them to provide a list of names of illegal voters (because RCW 29A.68.100 requires it), which can then be checked for accuracy.
Third, if proportional allocation is to be done, the judge could (and should) require the proportioning to be done not only by county but also by gender. If 95% of the illegal felons are males, apportioning those votes based on King County as a whole (which is roughly 50-50 male-female) would hardly be an accurate representation of who those voters likely were cast for.
To illustrate, let’s assume 80% of the alleged 884 illegal felons in King County pan out. Applying the 56-39 split, Gregoire has 122 more votes subtracted from her total than is subtracted from Rossi’s total. However, the computation for the rest of the state favors Gregoire by roughly 16 (again assuming 80%) so now Rossi has gained only 106 — before any gender adjustment. He’s got 60 alleged dead votes, double votes, etc., to make it up from. This is working strictly off the GOP list and assumes the Democrats don’t come up with any additional, offsetting, illegal votes.
Consequently, even in a hypothetical rosy scenario for the GOP, it’s uphill for Rossi.
Of course, if the judge does a gender adoption, it could easily turn out that Rossi received more illegal votes than Gregoire.
I mean adjustment, not adoption.
Don (and others), also consider that the review may go to the precinct level, not the county level. In fact, both sides could spend weeks arguing over the proper proportional formula for determining how to allocate the votes.
Because of that, while I think it’s their best shot, it seems very odd to rectify an election where ambiguity is the central charge, with a corrective plan that is itself arbitrary and ambiguous.
tj @ 90
That’s why Judge Bridges should require the Republicans to show who the illegal voters voted for. Anything else is arbitrary and speculative.
And if you go to the precinct level, with 2616 precincts, it is likely you would rarely have more than a couple of votes involved per precinct. It would be totally inaccurate to apportion votes when there is only one in the precinct. If you had 50 precincts with one illegal vote each, and one candidate got 51% of the vote in each precinct, you would have to assign each vote to that candidate. All 50 votes would be assigned to that candidate, which is obviously incorrect.
No matter how you turn it to look at it, the Rossi case will lose what ground it didn’t ever have; the bar is set too high. Waste of face, time and money. In the blanks, is what I think of the abhorant, down and dirty tactics of Mr. Cynical. ——- —– — —! Come up for air.
Zappora… A bit about what the “most reasonable moderate” want to see. Since when has the majority been declared most reasonable and moderate. Take a look at who they elect. Election after election the majority throws someone into office and ends up disgruntled, throwing them out four years later due to whatever rains on their parade. Prime example, Watergate an all the like ects. We can never have “open and transparent” government as long as human beings control and money rule. Greed and Power goes to the head. Big money greases the system. Where apathy lies, corruption reigns. Taking back what we lost by apathy will be a long row to hoe. The greatest risk is that we really don’t know who we are voting for and that is why what we see and hear is not what we end up getting; the bandits wear nice masks.
It’s not apathy, it’s powerlessness. Many people became disgusted with voting because they realized money and corporatism would rule our politics regardless of who they elected. It’s a measure of just how bad Dubya and the neocons are that people have stopped talking about how bad both parties and all the candidates are. After Dubya retires to his ranch and the neocon pestilence blows over, this issue will come back big-time. Most of us can’t contribute to campaigns in four or five figure chunks, and I’m sorry, but our $10 and $25 contributions don’t add up to duck spit. You can’t run a campaign on that kind of money. As long as money drives politics the ordinary folks will always be marginalized.
Chardonnay@65:
Ron Sims is going to be voted out of office? By you and what army? Who, pray tell, is going to run against him? What county is this again?
I think that everyone here can agree, that if CG had done the right thing and had contested the election herself, she probably would have been a shoe-in in any “re-vote”. People on both sides of the aisle tend to respond to fairness and magnanimity. What Rossi asked for was entirely reasonable, especially considering all of the legitimate voting issues brought to light by Stefan, Goldy and others. So if and when this election is annulled, CG will have no-one to blame but herself / her party for trying to hang on to power too tightly.
how is contesting an election that wasn’t fraudulent the right thing to do? What’s fair about giving up an election that you fairly won?
TJ – Do you know with absolute certainty that she received more votes? Ok, I understand the process argument, but that doesn’t play well for most people (e.g., Gore, 2000). Most people want to know with confidence who really received the most votes. When, even five months after the election there is no record YET available that indicates how voting records were reconciled with ballots, when nearly 400 provisional ballots (Admitted Fact) were illegally tabulated, when King County found “extra” ballots on nine different occasions and when the number of felon voters in Pierce County alone is more than half the margin of victory – can anyone say with confidence who really received the most legal votes? At that point, if CG would have said, Yes Dino, you are correct, this is hosed, let’s go to the legislature and have a new election, she would have shut him down big time and likely would have won anyway just on the class factor alone (e.g., Doing more than what’s expected). As it is, I will be a campaign volunteer for Mr. Rossi because of how badly he’s been screwed over. He has more class in a broken cuticle then the whole round of apologists that claim this election was “fairly won”.
zap @ 97, 99
When Dino was ahead by 42 votes, I didn’t see him calling for a revote, but I did hear him loudly demanding that Gregoire and the Democrats forego a recount they were entitled to by law. How was that anything but self-serving? If you have a recount law on the books, and you don’t recount the closest gubernatorial election in U.S. history, then what election DO you recount? Answer: The only good recount is a recount the GOP candidate wins.
zap @ 99
Yes, I do know. She had 129 more.
What do you mean about there being no record of “voting records” reconciled to ballots? What are voting records? Do you mean credits, or signatures?
400 ballots were not illegally tabulated; they were improperly tabulated. 252 of them were legally tabulated, at least.
When you say King found “extra” ballots, what are you referring to?
Why do you say the election is hosed? Where can you find in the law that it says an election is hosed because felons voted? And much more importantly, how does a revote improve the situation?
Yes, Sims WILL be voted out. By me and the Red Army, that’s who. All you liberal commies will be running for the hills when we take over olympia. We have the morals and family values to do it. You slimy liberals will be out and moral conservatives will rule.
chardonnary @ 102
that’s comedy, right? I hope you don’t take yourself that seriously. You sound like you’re writing from a compound in Idaho. Get some fresh air.
And isn’t the Red Army the Soviet army? Are you the moral conservative commies?
show a little TOLERANCE here, you are almost out of control with rage. yikes! hit a nerve?
is this a sneak peek into the real extreme left wing, LOL
the minority party aka democrat. ok then good luck in the next election. Your King Ron Sims should start packing his things. Maybe you could lend him your Resume Builder software. LMAO
who are you talking to, chardonnay?
TJ @ 105
I’m talking to you. you make statements but offer no solutions. you accept flawed elections…with FIXABLE wrongdoing. It is NOT impossible to prevent hundreds of unchecked ballots from being stuffed into ballot boxes or to prevent felons or the dead from voting. It is not impossible to send out military ballots as soon as do every other state. YOU accept it cause YOUR gal snuck in. I don’t because my guy didn’t…and should have. I say FIX IT.
Most democrats also accept wrongdoing on the national level. I don’t. Do you think if Bush cheated on his wife as guv and as pres and lied to her and the cabinet and to the American people, he would not have resigned? and if he didn’t choose to, he’d have been skewered by his own party as an embarrassment. I have no idea WHAT embarrasses the democrats. Kennedy murders a young woman, fails to get HELP for like 9 hours…not only retains OFFICE but runs for prez 11 years later !! Clinton soils the Oval office and dems leave him alone since…they have nobody (except internet inventor alicegore) they believe can do the job?? Both guys are at the VERY TOP of democratic power at this very moment.
if you thot I’m gonna accept murderers, liars and adulterers as my leaders, you TOTALLY misunderstood me. I am not attacking YOU…just the party you vote to support without admitting to it.
tolerance? rage? You were talking to me? I’m not the one planning some kind of revolt or coup on Olympia.
If you voted for Bush, you most certainly accepted murderers, liars and adulterers as your leaders.
char @ 106
bush has probably had to either tell a lie or reinforce an old one every day of his miserable pampered life.
Don @ 95:
I agree with you there Don and yes we have a voice but we are peons crying in the wilderness, powerless as you said. The mass can revolt but it takes money, time and guts to come up against the big guns and their machinery. In fact, there are many documented cases where persons have very mysteriously been found dead or outright been assassinated after trying to take on the big boys or the big white house.
Dino Rossi came to Chelan County judge shopping; good old boy style. Atty. Dale Forman of Chelan County and Judge Chip Small of Chelan County were classmates at Pacific Lutheran College. Chip had the ethics to excuse himself. Rossi’s shopping trip failed. Rossi must now prove his case under Judge Bridges who is well known for his ability, strength of character and adherance to law during his time on the bench. The court transcript well indicates Bridges is not about to be run over by mounting figures. He also knows where this case is going and when and where it will all end. Rossi is playing blindman’s bluff.
chardonnay @ 102:
When Sims gets an opponent, would you like to put some hard cold cash where your mouth is?
Would you also like the election for King County Executive to be about “slimy liberal commies” vs. “family values conservatives?” Would you like Sims’ opponent to run on that platform?
Ivan @ 111
Sure, how much?
The platform will be based on mis-managment of King County at every level.
The elections office might come into the conversations. Perhaps property rights.
You must admit King Ron Sims is ripe for the picking.
108….Bush’s “miserable pampered life.”??????? As opposed to say, Teddy “Oldsmobile” Kennedy, or “Marry a Multimillionaire John “Fonda” Kerry? [You libs are classic!]
Chardonnay @ 112:
When we have an opponent, we will have a bet.
Chard @ 102
Extra! Extra! Read all about it! Republican family values! http://www.americaheldhostile.com/cheating.html
Chard @ 104
The same guy who posted, “Yes, Sims WILL be voted out. By me and the Red Army, that’s who. All you liberal commies will be running for the hills when we take over olympia” and THEN posts,” follows up with, “show a little TOLERANCE here, you are almost out of control with rage.” Hmmmm. Go figure.
Chard @ 106
“Do you think if Bush cheated on his wife as guv and as pres and lied to her and the cabinet and to the American people, he would not have resigned? and if he didn’t choose to, he’d have been skewered by his own party as an embarrassment.”
You aren’t serious, are you? By God, I think he’s serious! HAW HAW HEE HEE HAR HAR HOO HOO HA HA HA HA HA HA HOO BOY HAR HAR HAW HA HA HA HA ROFLMFAO HEE HEE HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!
I probably shouldn’t ask you this, Chard, but what do you think of the GOP changing the House ethics rules so DeLay won’t be kicked out of Congress if he’s indicted?
Chee @ 109
Be careful about buying into conspiracy theories, Chee. People die of natural causes and accidents, too.
JCH @ 113
Un-huh. And how many of the GOP leaders are working stiffs like us?
if you all notice MY name is not underlined under MY posts. Not sure who is posting useing my name_underlined. that is a fan I guess. nice try, click on the undelined name and see.
so ask within your group here, who is noted for doing that?
maybe GOLDY can prove it by checking the ISP on those posts and compare to my posts. i never use a URI, I always use my email. makes for an unfair playing field when you resort to those kinds of tactics.
102 and 106 are from someone using http://ivan96
do we have a person here named ivan?
ivan the ____!
Ivan the IMBECILE LEFTY!
Ivan the imbecile lefty didn’t put spaces around the @ sign. BFD! Sicks and stones, bucko.
This forum is so DAMN lucky to have people with humor and class like Chardonnay, Mr. Cynical, and JCH. Someday when we all get to heaven (Except TJ burning in hell for blogging on govt. time), we will finally see THE BIG BINDER. Until then, I guess we have to put up with a strong case of conservative envy here. How many women really want weak-kneed puny liberal men with issues? (Except for Kennedy, I’ll grant you that, but hey, his brother liked his girlfriends a little wetter so it balances out). Come on, laugh with me. You know it’s true. You want to be a conservative so bad it hurts. Put down the drugs, walk away from the porn, leave the indoctrination behind, stop lying to yourself and start THINKING. You can do it. (Well maybe not Don, but the rest of you, join in.)
zap @ 125,
you are correct! women do think conservative men more sexy than the liberal girly men. I think it may be the drama queen emotions. I see the OMG factor from the liberals while the conservative posters here and in other forums tend to be more confident. Less reactionary. It is very entertaining.
Don @ 118:
As long as people can blog away their stoved up frustrations they will live longer. No news to me that people die of natural causes Don. Did you just read that inmparted flash of news on Sound politics. They must be pretty desperate.