New York Times columnist Bob Herbert devotes an entire column to how the Republican Party at the national level has become institutionally deceitful, highlighting the recent battle over raising the minimum wage as a classic example.
The GOP has always been a fierce opponent of the minimum wage, which now sits at a paltry $5.15 an hour, a half-century low in real dollars. Yet the Republicans suddenly embraced a modest $2.10 increase in the minimum wage over three years tied to a whopping slash in the estate tax and a change in law that would have actually cut wages for millions of employees who earn tips. The so-called “trifecta” legislation was little more than an election year stunt intended to bend Democrats over a barrel, and Republican leaders made clear that Dems who opposed the bill would be targeted as obstructionist come November. “There’s like 12 30-second ads sitting around in this bill,” one Republican aide told The Hill.
Herbert bluntly calls the GOP’s bluff, and then some:
I’m for an increase in the minimum wage and against a cut in the estate tax. But that’s not the point here. The point is the extent to which the Republican Party is willing to engage in deceit to try and achieve ends it could not achieve any other way. The latest incarnation of the Republican Party has taken deceit in government and politics to dangerous new extremes, and it’s time to call a halt to it.
The war in Iraq will be remembered as one of the greatest exercises in systematic governmental deceit in U.S. history. But the Iraq fiasco is just the most stunning and tragic example of a style of governing and politicking that has become second nature to the Bush administration and much of the national Republican establishment.
At some level all politics is local, so when we talk about the institutional dishonesty of the national Republican leadership we must also consider how they harness their deceit to influence elections at the local level. Herbert continues:
It is in that same deceitful and vengeful spirit that the party is now attacking Democratic senators who managed to hold fast, under the leadership of the minority leader, Harry Reid, to defeat the legislation that cynically tied the estate tax windfall to an increase in the minimum wage.
The National Republican Senatorial Committee declared that Maria Cantwell, a Democratic senator from Washington who voted against the bogus bill, “decided that giving in to pressure from her party’s leadership was more important than voting to raise the federal minimum wage.”
Senator Cantwell, who is up for re-election this year, favors an increase in the minimum wage, as does her party’s leadership. It has been the Democratic Party that has been pushing for years for an increase in the minimum wage, but there is no room for that reality in the G.O.P.’s corrosive culture of deceit.
Which brings us to Sen. Cantwell’s challenger, former SAFECO CEO and insurance industry lobbyist Mike!™ McGavick, a man who has pledged to bring bipartisanship and civility back to the other Washington. And how does he intend to achieve this? By echoing the partisan, divisive rhetoric of his partisan and divisive national leadership, of course. In the very first sentence of a press release issued in the wake of the vote, Mike!™ immediately fell back on the NRSC talking points.
“Simply put, Sen. Cantwell today announced that she will side with her party’s leaders over the interest of our state,”
Simply put, Mike!™ is a politician like all other politicians, and a Republican in the mold of the national Republicans with whom he would caucus if elected.
And you can’t just write off that initial press release as the rushed, knee-jerk reaction of a communications staff desperate to get out in front of the news cycle. Mike!™ issued two more press releases in the following days, continuing to hammer home the NRSC talking points, eventually so riling The Stranger’s Josh Feit that he felt compelled to pick one apart with footnotes:
GOP U.S. Senate candidate Mike McGavick keeps saying he wants to run a “different” campaign. That is: a campaign that doesn’t stoop to the childish, misleading level of partisan attack politics that typically clutters civic debate. I want to believe the guy, but then he sends out childish, misleading, partisan press releases that clutter civic debate.
[…]
What really bugs me about this whole thing is that the GOP trifecta was purely an election-year stunt to neutralize a winning Democratic issue–the minimum wage. First thing Monday morning, McGavick, who claims to be above the juvenile partisan fray, sends out a misleading hack-job press release on Cantwell, trying to blame her. McGavick is just following GOP orders.
And so he is.
Last week, Seattle P-I columnist Joel Connelly accused me of taking part in a “mean, low-down attack” against Mike!™ for my teensy role in the SAFECO shareholder lawsuit. Joel seems to want to believe Mike!™’s call for civility at least as much as Josh, calling him a “stand-up guy“. But given the deceitfulness of his press releases one can’t help but wonder what Mike!™ is willing to stand up for? The people? The truth? Or the larger agenda of his Republican leadership?
Knowing his long history as a Slade Gorton operative it is hard to take Mike!™’s sudden conversion to civility at face value. Oh sure, no doubt he’s a nice enough guy when you sit down across from him face to face, but then, so am I. And as has been extensively documented by the Seattle Times’ David Postman and on the blogs Hominid Views and Orcinus, Mike!™ has shown an extraordinary willingness to do or say whatever it takes to win an election.
So is Mike!™ just another dirty campaigner, cynically touting civility and bipartisanship as little more than a political convenience? Well, to paraphrase Mike!™’s own defense of a misleading ad against Mike Lowery from 1988: “I have no indication that he isn’t.”
What I do know is that Mike!™ is a Republican and that he is eagerly attacking Sen. Cantwell with the same “deceitful and vengeful spirit” that Herbert has observed nationally. Mike!™ can talk about civility all he wants, but if the Republicans retain control of the Senate we already know what we’re gonna get.
Does increasing the minimum wage actually do any real good for the long term? Or is it politicians trying to score points with their constitutents?
Heck, why don’t we make the minimum wage $25 per hour? That way the lowest a full-time (40 hours per week)worker would have an annnual salary of over $50,000 per year.
That’s a silly statement, I know, but I don’t see these increases in the minimum wage doing much in the long run. It’s mainly for show and to garner votes at election time.
Mike? Who is just another CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVE who would let restaurant owners empty the waitress tip jar into their own pockets — while lining his own pockets with $28 million of his shareholders’ money for two months of worthless part-time ‘consulting’ work.
Mike? Who
He’s the Problem, Not the Solution
Are you referring to Maria Cantwell who lied about the impact of the minimum wage bill, and who put her party line politics over the needs of low income americans?
Plane Terror Thwarted………….
Sure hope the Brits didn’t listen in on any of
their phone calls or follow their money. Miss Glodie, Will the ACLU be flying to England to “protect the civil rights” of the Muuuuuuuuuslims?? Will you be ready to “take the depositions” of the terrorists?
Ned Lamont will keep us safe! hehe, JCH
no no JCH, it was all a plot by the evil republicans to fake a plot to make themselves look good.
Dont you read the KOS?
Libertarian-1
Better to tell the constituants that if they are not worth the higher minimum or “living” wage, plus bennies, plus 30-50% they cannot work.
1
“Does increasing the minimum wage actually do any real good for the long term?” Commentby Libertarian— 8/10/06@ 11:32 am
Why don’t you ask someone who’s trying to pay rent (or commute to work on $3 gas) that question?
“Heck, why don’t we make the minimum wage $25 per hour?” Commentby Libertarian— 8/10/06@ 11:32 am
This is the same tired, bogus bullshit wingnuts always fall back on whenever CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVES are confronted about their efforts to pick the pockets of America’s poorest workers.
The answer, asshole, is that the purpose of the minimum wage is to assure that all employers pay wages equal to the minimum subsistence needs of their workers so taxpayers like you (and me) don’t have to subsidize their businesses’ cost of labor.
A low minimum wage (or no minimum wage, the true goal of CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVES) is a classic Republican attempt to shift their costs of doing business to the public. It’s welfare for the rich, pure and simple.
There are three fundamental components of economic output: Capital, materials, and labor. Each comes with a cost. I’m sure “Libertarian” would instantly be up in arms if I suggested that rich people subsidize the cost of capital, or sell products for less than what materials cost (I’m not suggesting that). So why should we let CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVES like “Libertarian” get away with arguing workers should provide their labor for less than it costs them to live? Yet, that’s exactly what their minimum wage arguments amount to.
That’s a silly statement, I know” Commentby Libertarian— 8/10/06@ 11:32 am
Then why did you make it? To hear yourself talk? Seems that way. This is the only reasonable thing you said in your post. You’re right — your post is silly … and it’s bullshit. And you know as well as I that it is.
Next time, do us all a favor, don’t waste the server space. We could spare the planet from the emissions from an entire power plant if we could get just 10% of the rightwing bullshit off the internet.
the fallacy in this debate is that the minumum wage was never intended to be a living wage.
Oh look – good old fashioned police work stopped a terrorists attack. What a concept.
goldy,
no posts on the latest attempted mass murder by these guys?
Republicans want a low or no minimum wage because they want taxpayers to subsidize their businesses’ cost of labor. Workers earning the federal minimum wage of $5.15 an hour (in states that haven’t enacted a higher state minimum wage) receive about half of their average $20,000 annual income from the goverment — in the form of housing subsidies, food assistance, Medicaid, and tax credits — which indicates the minimum wage would need to be about $9.62 an hour to completely eliminate taxpayer subsidies to low-paying employers.
Why do Republicans only complain about welfare for poor people, while gaily scooping up welfare for rich people (i.e., themselves)? … Because all Republicans are
F R E E L O A D E R S
8
the fallacy in this debate is that the rightwing position on minimum wage is all about selfish greed
10
I commented on it in the previous thread
10
Hey wrongagain, are you one of the 30% of Americans who can’t remember when 9/11 happened?
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
“GET A BRAIN, MORANS”
A new Washington Post poll shows 30% of Americans don’t remember when the 9/11 attacks happened. http://tinyurl.com/p2zgx
Hmmm, that correlates perfectly with Bush’s support in the polls …
Hey, if all you CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVES favor a $25-an-hour minimum wage — GO FOR IT!!! Your employees will thank you. Meanwhile, get your greasy fingers out of the waitress tip jar!!
Republicans = thieves
it also matches the liberal disconnect on the war
roger 9.62 is not even a living wage here in washington.
So how high shall it go?
Roger, the tip jar is safe.
Maria lied.
EXPLANATION OF ‘CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVES’
“When you cut right through it, right-wing ideology is just ‘dime-store economics’ intended to dress their ideology up and make it look respectable. You don’t really need to know much about economics to understand it. They certainly don’t. It all gets down to two simple words. ‘Cheap labor’. That’s their whole philosophy in a nutshell … cheap-labor conservatives are defenders of corporate America – whose fortunes depend on labor. … The more desperately you need a job, the cheaper you’ll work, and the more power those ‘corporate lords’ have over you. If you are a wealthy elite – or a ‘wannabe’ like most dittoheads – your wealth, power and privilege is enhanced by a labor pool, forced to work cheap.”
For more information about CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVES (and their agenda), see http://tinyurl.com/lnzs3
Needless to say, all Republicans are CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVES, and all cheap labor conservatives are Republicans (although some call themselves “Libertarians” to further deceive the public).
Well now, this makes more sense.
Since Maria voted for Nafta and Cafta, then she must be a cheap labor conservatiuve too, according to that site:
Cheap-labor conservatives like “free trade”, NAFTA, GATT, etc. Why. Because there is a huge supply of desperately poor people in the third world, who are “over a barrel”, and will work cheap.
Thanks for clearing that up Roger.
sven the pathological contrarian: Are you this way at (un)SP?
shorter sven: Maria Cantwell isn’t perfect so vote for Mike :( McGreedvick.
Actually, I have yet to endorse McGavick. I voted for Maria in 2000.
I just want the glorious hymns sung in praise of Maria to accurately reflect her true qualities.
I rarely post at SP by the way.
As for being contrarian, its not hard when so many outlandish positions are advocated here.
Im for making the minimum wage 25 dollers an hour is a great idea.
we could all actuily aford gas agein
Does Mike!? want to rollback NAFTA and CAFTA? Has he talked to the Republican leadership about that?
I haven’t heard that he does.
McGimmick’s “Retirement” Package in 2006: 28.4 Million.
Years it would take a minimum wage earner to make that amount: 2757 Years
Getting Middle Class Americans to defend not raising the minimum wage: PRICELESS
25 – Ok I’ll look for some of your comments over there.
Outlandish positions at (un)SP? Oh my never!
I find it strange, sven, that your outrageousness sensor only seems to work in one direction. I seldom see you challenge a rightie.
This must be your version of “independence” showing, again.
I am posting on a liberally oreinted board, why it is a shock i challanged the dominant positions?
Robert,
I dont argue the minimum wage should be raised.
The question is how high?
How far up should we push it, and how much impact on small businesses will it have when we do.
See thats the difference between discussing an issue and demagoguing it….
I await For the Clueless’s assessment of your posts at the minnow pond.
http://web.archive.org/web/
Interesting ideas, if you click through some, it appears someone is being less than honest about when he became a Republican
good luck with that, I told you I rarely comment there. Have fun looking though.
Hey Roger,
I knew my post about the value of raising the minimum wage would cause you to get your undies in a knot. I love attacking your Democratic icons like the minimum wage and social security just to make your blood pressure rise and shorten your life expectancy.
OK, Roger et. al.,let’s raise the minimum wage. What should it be increased to?
Sven,
The question of “how how” is mute – it was to be raised to $7.25. You side brought up the $25 hysterics.
And the “small business impact” is a canard brought up by big business lobbyists.
Not my said, I never said anything about it.
And the small business canard is a real issue, even if you refuse to acknoweldge it.
And if you recall I was commonting how Maria voted agaisnt m, and my unhappiness about how she mislead her base on WHY she opposed it.
She lied. The bill would not have affected tip income in Washington, and even if it had, it could have been easily and painless re-exempted by the state legislature.
So her whole fuss was for nothing, for which she penalized people in 38 other states.
some days my typing really sucks….
Restated in English, I said:
Not my side, I never said anything about it.
And the small business canard is a real issue, even if you refuse to acknowledge it.
And if you recall I was commenting how Maria voted agaisnt the bill, and my unhappiness about how she mislead her base on WHY she opposed it.
She lied. The bill would not have affected tip income in Washington, and even if it had, it could have been easily and painless re-exempted by the state legislature.
So her whole fuss was for nothing, for which she penalized people in 38 other states.
Thank you for letting me share my lousy spelling skills.
Next time, do us all a favor, don’t waste the server space. We could spare the planet from the emissions from an entire power plant if we could get just 10% of the rightwing bullshit off the internet.
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 8/10/06@ 11:51 am
Do us all a favor you arrogant fucking cocksucker: go wading in Green Lake in a concrete overcoat and get in over your head! You’re a fucking mindless neo-socialist troll!
All you do is waste server space with your fucking cocksucking diatribes about “FREELOADERS” and all that “HAR HAR HAR” shit. Drop dead, asshole!
What’s most abhorent about the deceitfulness of republican politicians at the national scale, it encourages rank-n-file republicans to become adherents to the deceit, unwillingly or otherwise. Judging from the raving rightwing comments on this forum, loyal republicans are willingly deceitful.
Some Texas republican expressed doubtS about prezadint Bush this week by saying, “I’d like to give him a good switching sometimes, but…” Al Franken spotlighted the comment Thursday on his show’s regular Feature: “HOW HOMO-EROTIC ARE THEY”
Hah Hah!!!
Judging from the blanket defense of Maria’s shameless partisan gameplaying, the liberals here are partisan shills.
Im for making the minimum wage 25 dollers an hour is a great idea.
we could all actuily aford gas agein
Commentby The Socialist […………………………………….GBS, You are quite the poster!!]
It is intereting to note that the Democrats have mooved up by two weeks the deadline for challenging the Gay Marriage ruling. Apparently Democrats are scared stiff that a challenge might be successful or become an election year issue.
42 – So the alternative is to support another partisan shill – Mike :( McGreedvick!
I get it Sven!
You’re severely missing the big picture. Blanket control of the federal government by the lockstep, rubberstamp, PARTISAN Republican party is not working out too well. I’ll forgive Maria’s sins temporarily if it means the remotest hope of calling the Bushies to account.
We’ll call her to account at the appropriate time. For now we’ll give her a chance to redeem herself.
Sven you’re so independent-minded I wonder if you thought hard about voting for Will Baker. Tell us, what qualities did you find appealing in him?
Five of the alleged ringleaders of the foiled airplane bomb plot have been identified by Western intelligence agencies involved in unraveling the plot. Two of them are believed to have recently traveled to Pakistan and were later in receipt of money wired to them from Pakistan, reportedly to purchase tickets for the suicide bombers. Sources identify the five, who are now in custody, as: –Rashid Rauf –Mohammed al-Ghandra –Ahmed al Khan—–GBS——Left Turn. [Boy, I hope Bush didn’t follow their money wires or listen in on their phone calls to Muuuuuuuuuslimland! Miss Goldie will be ready to sue, and sue, and sue!!]
WASHINGTON- Among the thousands of frustrated flyers stuck at London’s Heathrow Airport Thursday was U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer, a jet-lagged casualty of worldwide delays and cancellations that grounded his family vacation. “It’s a nightmare, everyone’s stuck, and our flight is apparently delayed until Sunday,” the senator told The Associated Press by phone. The New York Democrat and his family arrived at Heathrow Airport at 9 a.m. London time Thursday, but the plane
[…………………Imagine if Senator Schumer and his family were among the people killed when Muslims blow up another passenger plane. Would Chuckie Boy still bitch about the monitoring of Muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuslims’ “wire tranfers” and cell phone calls from Detroit to Iran???] hehe, JCH
I am from Europe, and I am also appalled by the attempted theft of the gubernatorial election by the Democrats in state of Washington.
In my opinion, Gregorie and Washington Democrats are cut from the same cloth as Yanukovych in Ukraine and Lukashenko in Belarus.
They all display the same arrogance and total disregard for democracy and the electoral process.
Sven,
European democrat for Rossi
This certainly may not be our sven but this comment demonstrates appalling judgement not to mention arrogance.
The New York Time is institutional deceitful.
48.
Well, we may all be chimeras, nothing but flickering light through fibre cables, but it sounds like our sven, to me.
To paraphrase Max Bialystock, “That’s our sveni!”
PBJ voted for Will Baker.
of course it wasn’t me, I would not have spelled any those names right.
Gregoire: ah yes another liar who broke her campaign promises.
It is amazing to see how the left accepts the liars on the left, and condemns people like lieberman for being inconveniently truthful.
By the way, I have yet to say anything supporting McGavick.
Maybe Hong Tran is the better answer, hm?
As for Baker, I don’t recall voting for him, but thanks for playing.
Maybe Hong Tran is the better answer, hm?
Now we come to the crux of the matter. Are we trying to divide the vote now? You’re in good company sven. How well does it pay?
As I said, I dont have to show anyone support to expose Maria for being a liar.
:)
Hong Tran is a real Demercrate not a DINO like Cantwell.
http://www.hongtran.com/
D.I.N.O.
1.D.emercrate
2.I.n
3.N.ame
4. O.nly
Lamerman is a dino
we need to purge our party of dino’s
D.I.N.O.
1.D.emercrate
2.I.n
3.N.ame
4. O.nly
Commentby The Socialist [………………………………………………GBS, You are soooo “The Poster Of The Day”!!!]
Becides Hong is cuter than cantwell she is HOT HOT HOT !!!!!!
Aircraft bomb plot thwarted
The alleged plot to blow up airliners in mid-air was “well advanced” and targeted at American carriers, according to the US head of homeland security.
Michael Chertoff was speaking as the United States raised its airline threat level to “red” – the highest – for all flights from Britain, and to “orange” – the second highest – for all other flights.
He declined to identify which airlines were targeted, but said they were US carriers operating between Britain and the United States.
US officials, speaking under condition of anonymity, have told reporters that United Airlines, Continental Airlines and American Airlines were specifically targeted. [……………………………..Miss Goldie, Will you be taking the terrorist’s depositions? Will the ACLU ensure that the Brits didn’t listen in on their phone calls to Iran? Will Jimmy Carter help us to “understand” the terrorists?]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....080606.htm
Some salient points:
Do you approve or disapprove of the way Bush is handling terrorism?
8/06/06 approve 47, disapprove 50
6/25/06 approve 51, disapprove 47
Which political party, the (Democrats) or the (Republicans), do you trust to do a better job handling terrorism?
8/06/06 Democrats 46, Republicans 38
6/25/06 Democrats 39, Republicans 46
Good of Tony Blair to come to his master’s aide. Yo! Blair, you’re a good poodle.
Once again, fetch!
Thanks Tuttle! I was waiting all day for someone to make the first conspiracy accusation.
Bush Admin Drafts War Crimes Amendment To “Immunize Past Crimes” Of US Personnel…
The Bush administration has drafted amendments to the War Crimes Act that would retroactively protect policymakers from possible criminal charges for authorizing humiliating and degrading treatment of detainees, according to lawyers who have seen the proposal.
The White House, without elaboration, said in a statement that the bill “will apply to any conduct by any U.S. personnel, whether committed before or after the law is enacted”…
…”I think what this bill can do is in effect immunize past crimes. That’s why it’s so dangerous,” said a third attorney, Eugene Fidell, president of the National Institute of Military Justice.
Fidell said the initiative was “not just protection of political appointees but also CIA personnel who led interrogations.”
http://www.alternet.org/wire/40168/
GAWD IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A PRESIDENT THAT WASN’T A FUCKING WAR CRIMANEL!!!!!
Here’s a little something for all you conspiracy theorists to munch on:
According to Reuters, the three airlines that were supposed to have been targeted by the plot that was derailed by the arrests in the UK are American, Continental and United.
The stocks of all three experienced an abrupt sell-off YESTERDAY MORNING.
63.
Well, let’s just see what the Brits have on the plotters.
British police officials, who spoke in return for anonymity because of their customary procedures, said the attacks were not planned for today. Indeed, Mr. [Peter] Clarke indicated that the bombs had not yet been made.
Of course, they could probably be assembled pretty fast, if they had the ingredients.
“What did George Bush know, and when did he know it?” REP Cynthia “BitchSlap” McKinney, DEMOCRAT, GA hehe, JCH
Famous Quotes: “J….E..W….S!!!” [REP Cynthia “BitchSlap” McKinney’s, DEMOCRAT, GA father], “FUCKING JEW BASTARD!” [to Dick Morris, from HILLARY!] “Hymietown, NY” [Jesse Shakedown” Jacksooooon], “Black women don’t lie about this!” [Al “Suits” Sharpton, discussing Tawana Brawley] hehe, JCH
I didn’t no energy drinks were that powerful
““It’s a nightmare, everyone’s stuck, and our flight is apparently delayed until Sunday,” the senator told The Associated Press ”
how typical of schumer!!!! he still doesn’t get it at all. now if the plane had been blown up….NOW THAT WOULD BE A NIGHTMARE. but a “senator having to wait”? wow…….doesn’t that give any of you far left idiots any pause?
of course it doesn’t because just like goldy it’s all about you. you guys don’t even know what the big picture is.
schumer should move to seattle, where, if there is a terrible car crash on the freeway [almost a daily occurance since none of you know how to drive] when the occupants of the non involved cars are interviewed by the media all you hear is bitching.” i’m gonna be late. i’ll miss the first part of the chocolate for choice auction and all the wine will be gone!” but never a single word of worry for the people killed or injured.
even down here in liberal humboldt county,california the liberals make fun of you. last time they referred to you guys as “pansy assed whiners without a clue”.
now THAT says something……….
and GOLDY…..do you ever actually do anything [create anything] of your own? or do you just tear down others’ work? what are you? the cut and paste king now?
how about addressing the crisis in the middle east? i know you have this whole self-loathing jew thing going on[let’s face it you won’t be wearing an israeli uniform anytime soon…that would be too scary] but really…..how many self loathing titles can you actually own? self-loathing american, self-loathing jew…..ad nauseum.
when you should be wearing the “i’m too lazy to work” self loathing title……….
31
Can anyone find any posts by sven on Sucky Politics challenging the “dominant position” over there? Hey sven … here’s a novel idea … instead of “challenging the dominant position” why don’t you just post what YOU believe?
People who play “devil’s advocate” are working for the devil.
well roger…at least we know you have a job now. how is working for the devil anyway? is it true what they say? the devils’ in the details? is he a micro manager?
36
“OK, Roger et. al.,let’s raise the minimum wage. What should it be increased to?” Commentby Libertarian— 8/10/06@ 12:40 pm
$7.00 effective immediately
“I don’t belong to an organized political party. I’m a Democrat.” – Will Rogers.
sven at 19 (and several other spots) speaks of Ms. Cantwell’s “lies” about the minimum wage law.
I presume that sven is talking about the fact that the proposed law would actually reduce wages for anyone that routinely gets tips as part of their compensation. Republicans have trumpeted loud and long that this isn’t true.
The only problem with that trumpeting, sven, is that it appears that the non-partisan Congressional Research Service says that states “would seem to be prohibited from enforcing the minimum wage rate provisions of their laws with respect to a tipped employee” – source: http://www.usatoday.com/news/w.....ages_x.htm .
I’m less than a fan of Ms. Cantwell for several reasons, but I don’t feel a need to call her a liar when she has good reason for speaking as she did. Seems to me that the folks trying to find sound bites to run against her have somewhat more incentive to lie.
roger….could you live on 7 dollars an hour? you see how stupid that makes you look?
Republicans are working for the devil.
I think 25 dollars an hour is about were it sould be
If Republican business owners want to pay their employees $25 an hour, why don’t they just pay them $25 an hour? Why do they need a nanny government to do that? Can’t they think for themselves?
It’s very interesting that people who pretend to be in favor of “free markets” take a position that, in effect, forces taxpayers to subsidize business payrolls. If a business can’t sell a product for what it costs to produce it, and can stay in business only if taxpayers subsidize their labor costs, that product shouldn’t be produced. Government subsidies of uneconomic production distorts markets and results in misallocation of scarce economic resources, reducing the overall economy’s efficiency. Products that can’t stand on their own in the marketplace should go off the market, not be subsidized by taxpayers.
Of course, Republicans are lying when they mouth the words “competition” and “free markets.” The last things they want are competition and a truly free market. For example, Bush filled his cabinet with ex-CEOs who ran companies that lived on government subsidies, contracts, tax breaks, and dole. Not one of them has any experience running a company that has to survive in a competitive market! For photo of Bush’s cabinet, click here:
http://poorwilliam.net/pix/pigs-at-trough.jpg
Ghost at 70
Ah, so you’re a Humboldt County resident. That explains your fuzzy thinking. The smoke rings in your mind surely preclude any clarity of thought. Do you grow and sell, or merely use, your county’s primary product? By the way, if you are not “self-loathing,” you should be. Any self-esteem you might have is misplaced.
rabbit have you seen this yet
Wal-Mart staff set up first union in The Great Union Wall ChinaAdd to Clippings
AGENCIES[ TUESDAY, AUGUST 01, 2006 12:00:26 AM]
BEIJING/SHANGHAI: Employees of retail giant Wal-Mart have set up their first trade union in China, a move analysts said on Monday could lead to more unionisation in the sector.
http://economictimes.indiatime.....833044.cms
For photos from this summer’s Republican Free Market Convention, click here: http://tinyurl.com/kf8h7
38
“The bill would not have affected tip income in Washington, and even if it had, it could have been easily and painless re-exempted by the state legislature.” Commentby sven— 8/10/06@ 12:46 pm
Ever hear of federal pre-emption? And why should our state legislature have to enact legislation to override a federal bill that shouldn’t pass in the first place? Cantwell was right to vote against it.
do I have to I going to eat dinner pretty soon
71,
I beleive Maria lied about the minimum wage bill.
What else would you like to know?
Roger,
The US DOL confirmed that the bill’s provisions would not override the state exemption, but would actually enforce the state laws.
Try again. Maria lied.
Tell me this, sven — why doesn’t the GOP just play straight and raise the minimum wage without tying it to estate tax breaks, minimum wage take-backs, or other gimmicks? Because they’re not serious about raising the minimum wage, that’s why. They put deal-breakers in the bill precisely so Democrats like Cantwell WOULD vote against it. They got exactly what they bargained for.
Meanwhile, the federal minimum wage is still $5.15 an hour, and the only people to blame for that are the deceitful and conniving Republicans.
86
I believe you’re full of shit
I repeat, if the GOP wants to raise the minimum wage, all they have to do is vote for a bill that raises the minimum wage.
John @ 75
According to the US DOL, no.
You have asked for the views of the Department of Labor’s Wage and Hour Divisions (WHD) regarding Section 402 of the Estate Tax and Extension of Tax Relief act of 2006 (the act). If Section 402 (“tipped Wage Fairness”) were passed into law, WHD would read Section 402 as protecting the minimum wage of the tipped employees in the seven states that now exclude a tipped employee’s tips from being considered as wages because to do otherwise would be inconsistent with what we understand to be the intent of Congress and the Fair Labor Standards Act, which WHD enforces
http://frist.senate.gov/_files/DOL.pdf
sorry. She was provided with this information.
She lied.
39
“some days my typing really sucks….” Commentby sven— 8/10/06@ 12:52 pm
That’s nothing … your thought process sucks ALL the time.
40
Having a bad day, Y’o?
Was Maria at the convention? She is after all, according to Roger, a free trade conservative.
94
God I hope so … I hope EVERY day is a BAD DAY for Yossarian!! Please God, please God, please God, make it so …
42
“Judging from the blanket defense of Maria’s shameless partisan gameplaying, the liberals here are partisan shills.” Commentby sven— 8/10/06@ 12:59 pm
I’m a partisan hack. How about you?
poor roger, his hero Maria got caught playing politics and lying and all he can do is hop in circles avoiding the truth.
45
I agree, let’s wait til 2012, by then Democrats will control 85% of the seats in the House and Senate and we can replace Maria.
do I have to I going to eat dinner pretty soon
Commentby The Socialist [Roger, Enjoy your dinner! JCH]
48
“This certainly may not be our sven but this comment demonstrates appalling judgement not to mention arrogance.”
Commentby For the Clueless— 8/10/06@ 1:25 pm
Yeah, I’m sure it’s the same guy. Probably a Russian masquerading as a Swede, because it’s cool to be Swedish in Seattle, and it’s not cool to be Russian anywhere. All of sven’s posts reek of the same nonsensical blather.
49
pbj is hopeless illiterate.
49 (continued)
Hey pbj, do you have any clue what the suffix “ly” is for?
52
What promise did Gregoire break?
57
Yes, you Republicans do need to purge your party of Dinos.
aw, how disappointing. I am being racially profiled.
It’s norwegian anyway…..
ROGER RABBIT POLL
Which is more ridiculous?
[ ] 1. A human pretending to be a rabbit
[ ] 2. A Republican pretending to be a socialist
[ ] 3. A rat pretending to be human
[ ] 4. Kevin Carns pretending to be anybody
Hmm … that’s a tough choice, so I’d better add another category:
[X] 5. 2, 3, and 4 above
She campaigned on not raising taxes.
107
You’re norwegian like I’m a goose.
wow! this thread is already up to 110 posts (not counting the porn spammer)!! that’s more than the sucky little competing blog gets in a month!!!
59
“Socialist” is a Republican troll for sure!!! The obsession with sex is a dead giveaway. Now the only question is whether “Socialist” is male, female, or hermaphrodite.
76
“roger….could you live on 7 dollars an hour? you see how stupid that makes you look?” Commentby christmasghost— 8/10/06@ 2:41 pm
Sure. But then, I have cheap housing.
And free food.
ha ha roger. Like you know anything about me, you silly goose.
Sorry bubba, I am norwegian, and you just grew feathers.
And transportation that runs on carrots, not $3 gas.
#
59
“Socialist” is a Republican troll for sure!!! The obsession with sex is a dead giveaway. Now the only question is whether “Socialist” is male, female, or hermaphrodite.
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 8/10/06@ 3:15 pm
As Paris Hilton would say: I am so SURE!!!
what is really amusing is how much effort is being made against me in ad hominem attacks, rather then dispute my statements.
This is the most fun I have had all week, watching Roger try to attack me rather then muster up a solid logical rational argument.
And the worst insult he can generate is that I might be a russian pretending to be a swede.
Pathetic.
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 8/10/06@ 11:59 am
“A new Washington Post poll shows 30% of Americans don’t remember when the 9/11 attacks happened. http://tinyurl.com/p2zgx
Hmmm, that correlates perfectly with Bush’s support in the polls …”
You could like to the actual article.
http://tinyurl.com/lxcq2
“This memory black hole is essentially the problem of the older crowd: 48 percent of those who did not know were between the ages of 55 and 64, and 47 percent were older than 65, according to the poll.”
So using your kind of logic (or lack thereof), I could imply you are a “moran”, since are in one of those age groups. I guess using your logic I could also imply you voted for Bush. So this mess in Iraq is actually your own fault, so it would be great if you’d stop complaining about something you started in the first place.
Oh look I found a movie about Doctor JCH Kennedy.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0295700/
Plot Outline: Six people find themselves trapped in the woods of West
Virginia, hunted down by “cannibalistic mountain men grossly
disfigured through generations of in-breeding
Oh you can down load this from usenet off the
alt.binaries.multimedia.horror
Group if you want it was just posted yesterday
La goldie and his la-la-liberal girlieboys are sure working hard to avoid the REAL news today..
Speaking of the real news today, do you think that Rove and the Bush regime will look to ice the person that blew the cover on their operation to scare America with the so-called gel bomb fiasco? I bet that people will be fired over this. After all, I am sure that Bush and Rove ordered this to happen three weeks before the election in Nov. The fact that it happened now ruined their chance to make political hay. They’ll have to hatch a new plot now.
Medici: Godfathers of the Renaissance
THE MEDICI: GODFATHERS OF THE RENAISSANCE. It tells the story of an extraordinary family that rose out of a small Italian community in Florence to stand at the helm of the Renaissance and become the most influential dynasty in Europe for 300 years. The Medici used charm, skill, duplicity and ruthlessness to garner unparalleled wealth and power. They helped ignite the most important cultural and artistic revolution in Western Europe, inspiring the great artists, scientists and thinkers who gave birth to the modern world, including Michelangelo, Machiavelli, Luther, Copernicus and Galileo. A drama played out in the great courts, cathedrals and palaces of Europe, the series is both the tale of one family’s powerful ambition and of the continent’s tortured struggle to emerge from the ravages of the Dark Ages.
this is a really good show everyone should watch this to night.
9:00 PM Medici: Godfathers of the Renaissance on ch 9
I believe Alaska’s Senatorial candidate Mikey McGavick lied about the minimum wage bill. What else do you want to know? I also believe he lies every time his lips move. What else do you want to know? I believe all republicans are liars. What else do you want to know?
republicans are all working for the devil.
That’s what I herd any ways
What else do you want to know? -Commentby LeftTurn— 8/10/06@ 3:45 pm
We know all we need to know. You are part of the terrorist loving scum that will not condemn evil under any circumstance.
We know that you’d rather believe evil is a conspiracy by political opponents you despise rather than by those that would prefer you beheaded.
We know you will continue to aid and abet your fellow America haters as long as it suits your agenda.
And we know that you are cowardly who far too easily believe that hundreds of thousand would secretly work together to thwart your political agenda.
And the most important thing we know is that you are pukes who refuse to denounce the people trying to kill you because you want the terrorists to win.
Michael Moore once wrote:
“There is no terrorist threat.
You need to calm down, relax, listen very carefully, and repeat after me:
There is no terrorist threat.
There is no terrorist threat!
There… is… no… terrorist… threat!”
BigOrangeAxe Says:
August 10th, 2006 at 9:02 pm
You know, it’s amazing. Timing really is everything. If this plot had been discovered just one week ago, the manbearpig crowd would have accused BushHitlerChimpyadayadayadaCo of making it all up to help Joe Liebermann. Yet, since it happened AFTER that election………..(silence, a quiet breeze, crickets chirping)….
don’t worry Miss Kennedy after we take back the house and senate we’ll get you that mental health care you so badly need
At least you admit that the grand “WE” are socialists.
Make sure your candidates mention that a bit more often, would ya?
Dear Miss Kennedy i would have them change the name to the rightfull name The Socialist Party.
We would have to switch colors though I won’t give up my glories RED
And I really wish you thieving republicans would STOP USEING IT!!!!
Commentby LeftTurn— 8/10/06@ 3:43 pm
“Speaking of the real news today, do you think that Rove and the Bush regime will look to ice the person that blew the cover on their operation to scare America with the so-called gel bomb fiasco?”
Commentby LeftTurn— 8/10/06@ 3:45 pm
“What else do you want to know?”
Are you seriously saying that the thwarted attempt to blow up several civilan aircraft with hundreds or thousands of passengers, was never real, but instead manufactured by Bush and Rove to create some kind of advantage in the upcoming elections?
Roger it appears that your moral support for your friends that kill women, children, and Liberals is starting to pay off. You belief that you cannot win a guerilla war is encouraging them to hide behind the defenseless individuals, plus paying big dividends today in Lebanon, Iraq, and other places in the middle east. You believe you can talk them (your friends) from killing poor and dumb people like yourself and why War is not really necessary. What a Socialist Democrat, they would slit your throat in a hart beat just to make their point. Roger what is their point anyway and how would you change their mind?
“British authorities said Thursday they disrupted a terrorist plot to simultaneously blow up several aircraft heading to the U.S. using explosives smuggled in carry-on luggage, averting what police described as “mass murder on an unimaginable scale.”
“There is no reputable military thinker in the world who claims to know who (how) to win an urban guerilla war, or who believes it can be done.”
Comment by Roger Rabbit — 4/12/06 @ 10:45 am”
Left Turn at 123: Since these suspects were under survelliance in Britian for several months, I would expect that the Administration did indeed plan to trigger the arrests, and release the news, sometime in October. The fact that they missed arresting some of the suspects indicates that they weren’t fully prepared to move at this time. But possibly the information that the suspects were going to conduct a “dry run” within the next tow days spooked the British government, who ordered the arrests without waiting further?
And what’s the deal about the news leaks from the U.S. government, who are giving out more information about the details of the plot than the British government wants to have released? News items are saying their sources are “unnamed” for that reason. Are these leaks authorized for political purposes, or are they individuals acting on their own? Will there be another “Plame” investigation of the leaks? Methinks not.
Having gotten quoted BEFORE GOLDIE in the P-I (ROFLMAO), let me say that this “Cantwell and Lamont agree” bullshit is just not going to work. Wouldn’t it all be a little easier if Cantwell looked at the fiasco in Iraq and said to herself AND EVERYBODY ELSE “You know, I DO regret my vote to give Bush carte blanche over here”????
Seriously, why does she remain to the RIGHT of her party leadership on this cluster-fuck? What is the fucking matter with her?
She GAINS points changing her position on Iraq because she can slam McGavick with Bush’s failures.
“I don’t belong to an organized political party. I’m a Democrat.” – Will Rogers.
sven at 87 and 92
Ok, so the Bush administration’s Assistant Secretary for Employment Standards told the Republican House Majority Leader that their Wage and Hour Divisions (WHD) “would read Section 402 as protecting the minimum wage of the tipped employees in the seven states that now exclude a tipped employee’s tips from being considered as wages”, while the non-partisan Congressional Research Office disagreed.
Leaving aside the fact that the Republican side that has publicly said “I know why you’re mad,” stated Rep. Zach Wamp (R-TN), “You’ve seen us really outfox you.” (This was from C-Span, by the way.)
Heavens, these folks would never issue a non-binding letter of opinion, then “change their minds” when the lawyers “explained the details” after the law was passed. And of course, it could never happen that the DOL could change their minds, decide that the Assistant Secretary had overstepped her authority (or just gotten it wrong) and allow some employer to cut wages and take the whole mess to court.
While I acknowledge there is room to disagree on the details, I think a reasonable person could come to the conclusion that tip income was in jeopordy, therefore, publicly saying so hardly qualifies as a “lie”.
Of course, the law could simply have been written clearly, thereby removing this whole argument. I wonder why they didn’t do that?
Commentby dlaw— 8/10/06@ 4:47 pm
“She GAINS points changing her position on Iraq because she can slam McGavick with Bush’s failures.”
Here’s where I think you are wrong:
1) If Cantwell changes her position, she becomes a “flip flopper” , at least from a campaign advertising perspective.
2) If Cantwell comes out against the war, the perception of her policies lurches left, which only appeals to her hard core base, and not the moderates she needs to win the election.
3) Other than the “R” next to his name, I’m not sure how you are going to effectively associate McGavick with Bush’s policies, since he had no hand in creating or implementing them.
John,
Add to what I said before the fact that her own letter from the state indicated that the tip credit might be blocked, but that it could be reinstated by the state at any time.
Her own use of that leter was only after she selectivly quoted it.
Her press statement said:
Under our preliminary analysis, this proposal, in effect, appears to nullify an employer’s obligation to pay the minimum wage rate…with regard to tipped employees.” the Washington State Department of Labor wrote. “This means that Washington workers who receive tips – typically service industry workers – would see a decrease in income.”
but the full quote said:
Under our preliminary analysis, this proposal, in effect, appears to nullify an employer’s obligation to pay the minimum wage rate in RCW 49.46.020 with regard to tipped employees. This means that Washington workers who receive tips – typically service industry workers – would see a decrease in income. However, the proposal does give states the right to amend their laws to specifically reinstate their current minimum wage rate laws. Until and unless the Washington State Legislature amends the minimum wage act to reinstate the current minimum wage rate provision for tipped employees, it would diminish workers’ rights in Washington State.
Her whole blog was an attempt to mislead and villify the republicans.
Vote for the Gold Parachute Boy. He doesn’t give a damn about the working class.
It’s important for voters to understand that Mike? Who is just another rubberstamp for the rightwing extremist agenda — cheap labor, resource wars, abolish social security, and create a hereditary rich class.
Before I forget … klake is a nazi.
120
Is this the new wingnut talking point? Liberals started the war in Iraq? Next thing ya know they’ll say “it’s all Clinton’s fault!”
How can you tell a wingnut is lying? His lips are moving.
JCH @ 58:
Funny, even for you.
137
Sorry sven, you’re wrong.
As John said, the bill could and should have made it clear what passage would mean to the seven states with higher minimum wage standards than the feds. To say that the states could easily fix the problem if it arose is nonsense. Nothing is “easy” in getting laws passed, just look at the minimum wage, itself.
As far as the word of Bush administration officials in the DOL — Maria was born at night, but it wasn’t last night.
Maria didn’t lie. If Frist really wanted to box her in, they should have dotted all the i’s. Why didn’t he do that?
Damn, I keep waiting for the thread on the terrorist threats, but nothing yet. Just comments in this thread about how Bush knew …………..
Cantwell,
I want my IRS deduction back for paying this State’s regressive mafia mentality consumption sales tax. Why didn’t you vote yes?
OUr state legislatures pass emergency legislation at the drop of a hat, do not even begin to tell me that they would not fix that, even if the US DOL was wrong.
The fact is that she was told it was not an issue and it wasn’t.
But she herself made it the keystone of her reasons for voting against the bill.
And 38 states worth of low income people will suffer for it. For nothing.
Don’t worry #145. Georgie doesn’t know shit from shinola! Ignorance is bliss for republicans!
Exclusive: U.S. picked up the suspects’ chatter and shared it with British authorities […………………………………..A big win for Bush!! Thank God a pussy Democrat lib wasn’t President!!!]
Dear Miss Kennedy i would have them change the name to the rightfull name The Socialist Party.
We would have to switch colors though I won’t give up my glories RED
And I really wish you thieving republicans would STOP USEING IT!!!!
Commentby The Socialist […………………………………………………………………..GBS, STOP IT!!! You’re killing me !!! OK, I’ll stop “useing” it!!!!!]
100% Certain……..”The Socialist” is GBS !!!!!!!
Sven,
Fact:
States that have higher minimum wage standards enjoy higher standards of living and economic prosperity than those states that have maintained the federal minimum wage of $5.15. Even though the cost of living in states with higher minimum wages is substantially higher than those states with $5.15 minimum wages.
Question:
Is that a coincidence or is there a direct correlation between the two wage standards?
$25 an hour is too high for a minimum wage. Can you explain why?
At what rate should the minimum wage standard be set?
OK, let’s see your economic prowess in action. And please, this time don’t avoid the questions like a Republican avoiding the truth, or the recruiting office.
Thank you.
JCH,
Really, please keep using it. It makes me laugh.
Hey, JCH, you’re a “retired stock broker” how about enlightening Sven on the questions I asked him? But please wait unitl after he answers and let me fact check him.
How’s the surfing and mangos lately? **snickering**
Conservative @ 136
You wrote:
“1) If Cantwell changes her position, she becomes a “flip flopper” , at least from a campaign advertising perspective.”
Bullshit.
Going into Iraq in theory WHEN WE ALL BELIEVED BUSH’S LIES and the Bush administration’s NIGHTMARISH execution of the war, POST-LIES are two completely different things. Anyone who can’t make it clear that the Republicans have totally fucked this up doesn’t belong in politics
“2) If Cantwell comes out against the war, the perception of her policies lurches left, which only appeals to her hard core base, and not the moderates she needs to win the election.”
Republicans will try – AND FAIL – to paint anyone who tells them the Emperor has no clothes as an Al-Qaeda Communist (as if such a thing could possibly exist). Yeah, the country doesn’t agree. The facts on the ground are a nightmare and Bush is sending more troops into this quagmire. Moderates understand that.
It’s only the conservative base that is too fucking stupid to see the truth and who the fuck cares how they vote?
“3) Other than the “R” next to his name, I’m not sure how you are going to effectively associate McGavick with Bush’s policies, since he had no hand in creating or implementing them.”
Well, since McGavick supports the war and is running in the party that created this cluster-fuck, I think he deserves to have that hung around his idiot, lobbyist neck.
Sven,
I am suffering for it, right along with 6 million other Washington State residents who won’t get their IRS deduction next year. It will cost me about a thousand dollars. so, when your federal taxes are jacked up next year, I hope you remember that name – Maria!
I suggest when the dems retake the House this year that we pass the following legislation as one “take it or leave it” resolution:
100% repeal of the estate tax coupled with total repeal of the Taft-Hartley Act.
I can envision the talking point now: “Well, I guess the GOP didn’t really believe in the repeal of the ‘death tax’ after all. They really are spineless wimps.”
GBS,
Let me preface this by reminding you that I have never advocated making the Minimum wage 25 an hour, so i dont know why you are addressing me here. I merely pointed out some fallacies in Rogers logic.
Fact:
States that have higher minimum wage standards enjoy higher standards of living and economic prosperity than those states that have maintained the federal minimum wage of $5.15. Even though the cost of living in states with higher minimum wages is substantially higher than those states with $5.15 minimum wages.
Ok…
Question:
Is that a coincidence or is there a direct correlation between the two wage standards?
I am sure there is corelation, but which way does the connection run? States with higher standards of living also carry higher cost of living, making thelower class diporpotionately disadvantaged, so those states have a genuine need to increase the minimum standard. So the minimum wage being higher does not always have to cause the higher standard, it is often a reflective action caused by it.
$25 an hour is too high for a minimum wage. Can you explain why?
The obvious answer is that the economy would not be able to sustain it. The wage increase, a more then 500% increase in most states would have to be absorbed by severe employment cuts or dramtically inflated prices, making the increase pointless. Econmists may often disagree as to some of the principles here, but they almost all agree that when the cost exceeds the benefit, it is useless.
At what rate should the minimum wage standard be set?
Honestly I have no clue. The 5.15 an hour wage is proportionately more then whe the wage was introduced in 1938, so it is not as out of hand as it may seem. But I think the fact that it has not grown with our economic growth since the 90s is a problem because it is worth less now in protion then it was then. I think it should be adjusted to the levels proposed and then tied tot he comsumer index.
OK, let’s see your economic prowess in action. And please, this time don’t avoid the questions like a Republican avoiding the truth, or the recruiting office.
not that i have ever avioded answering anything, but ok.
let me ask you something. What is the impact on the value of minimum wage by:
unions
The entitlement mentality
Increased benfits in social programs
Democratic state lawmakers are embracing the one solution to spiraling health care costs that Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger says he has ruled out: eliminating private insurance plans in favor of a single-payer system that allows the state government to buy health services for everyone. With three weeks left in the legislative session, a single-payer bill, Senate Bill 840 by Sen. Sheila Kuehl, D-Santa Monica, is heading toward the Assembly floor for a vote. [………………………………………………………………….This is great!! 30 million south-of-the-border illegals [New Democrats] ready for a quick run to Kalifornia [“Baja Norte”] where everything is free!!!!!!]
Commentby GBS— 8/10/06@ 6:15 pm
“States that have higher minimum wage standards enjoy higher standards of living and economic prosperity than those states that have maintained the federal minimum wage of $5.15.
Is that a coincidence or is there a direct correlation between the two wage standards?”
17 states (and DC) have a minimum wage higher than the federal minimum wage:
AK 59.31%
CA 59.14%
DE 53.16%
HI 43.05%
IL 38.68%
MA 48.10%
MD 58.80%
MN 49.61%
ME 45.99%
NJ 43.16%
NY 47.15%
OR 50.48%
PA 41.88%
RI 53.62%
VT 52.53%
WA 50.56%
WI 151,549 to 217,537
7 states have either no minimum wage or a minimum wage lower than the federal minimum wage:
AL 102,433 to 149,796
AZ 127,370 to 215,759
LA 113,261 to 166,310
MS 57,954 to 80,197
SC 97,397 to 139,771 43.5%
TN 153,405 to 226,502 47.6%
US 8,237,994 to 12,402,967 50.5%
The rest have the federal minimum wage of $5.15.
I’ve yet to find anywhere on the Internet some backing for your claim, assuming that you can provide some.
Ignore my previous post, it is incomplete.
Sven,
$25 an hour is too high for a minimum wage. Can you explain why?
The obvious answer is that the economy would not be able to sustain it.
False.
The wage increase, a more then 500% increase in most states would have to be absorbed by severe employment cuts or dramtically inflated prices, making the increase pointless.
You left out reduced profits as a share of GNP. Why?
Econmists may often disagree as to some of the principles here, but they almost all agree that when the cost exceeds the benefit, it is useless.
Economists rarely disagree on “principles”. They disagree on just about everything else.
At what rate should the minimum wage standard be set?
Honestly I have no clue.
True. You do not have a clue.
153, GBS, 1. 9 foot 6 inch “Bear” does it all for and old surfer from Encinitas, CA 2. Mangoes are always free and on the trees. Any other questions, “The Socialist GBS”?
Sven opines:
The entitlement mentality
??????????????? As opposed to the “tilt the playing field to favor the white, the male, and especially the rich”? What the fuck are you saying here Sven?
Your mindless repetition of deeply ingrained prejudice stands out like a sore thumb here, Sven.
Cheers!
The minimum wage is the cheapest, best and least heavy-handed economic development policy there is.
If a business owner cannot generate enough value per employee to be able to pay at least $10 an hour, we don’t want that business here in this country. We have to modernize and move up the ladder of value-add. We don’t need a bunch of slumlord business owners who can’t pay good wages.
164, Why not make the minimum wage $50 an hour and drive all the evil right wing tax paying private sector right out of WASH State? Then the welfare hacks, “guvment” workers, and Democrat controlled union thugs could tax each other without any of those evil Republicans causing trouble!! hehe, Atlas has Shrugged, JCH
@12,
“the fallacy in this debate is that the rightwing position on minimum wage is all about selfish greed” – Roger Retard
Um, so you are saying then that since it is a fallacy that the rightwing position on the minimum wage is all about selfish greed, then of course you must be saying it is definitely NOT all about selfish greed.
Try to learn English Mr Rabbit.
114
You post so much horseshit on this blog, you expect me to believe you’re norwegian? Ya, you’re norwegian like Ole and Lena are from Alabama!
A single payer system ran by the State is cheaper than the current medical insurance?
Just how are they going to accomplish that? No lawsuits over screwed up care? Redically decrease the amounts paid to Doctors, laboratory services, etc? Mandatory generic drugs?
CHICAGO – With airline employees and police at O’Hare International Airport working in a heightened state of alert Thursday morning, a Delta Air Lines ticket agent became suspicious of a young Egyptian man who was agitated and trying to board a flight with an invalid ticket, police said. Within minutes, she and the Chicago police officer she called for help learned that Ahmed Abou El Ela, 21, was one of 11 missing Egyptian students [……….But, but, will these fine young illegal Democrat terrorists be able to vote Democrat in November??? Miss Goldie, what about THEIR voting rights????]
The obvious answer is that the economy would not be able to sustain it.
False.
Why? How can it sustain it when it would cause dramtic increases in the cost of living and unemployment, and would cause a porportionate increase in skilled labor.
After all, the unions would never stand for only making 10 bucks an hour over the minimum when they used to make 30.
So the end result is along traumatic period of depression and upheavel followed by a suituation at best no better then now.
Rather then doing that, we could work to bring more skilled labor back to the work place, and decrease the number of people actually dependent on the minimum, but creation of new industries and manufacturing. But no, we sign trade agreements, and outsource and off shore all the cheap labor.
The real problem is that when the minimum wage was instituted we were a nation of workers.
Now we are a nation of consumers, who let other people work for it.
You left out reduced profits as a share of GNP. Why?
What you want a 6000 word essay in a comments section? I chose the most obvious answer since it details why the solution is worse then the problem.
Economists rarely disagree on “principles”. They disagree on just about everything else.
Semantics. OK.
Honestly I have no clue.
True. You do not have a clue
I am not an economist, and never claimed to be one. If my ill informed opinion is not good enough, then why ask the questions?
From what research I have done, that is the obvious answer. no matter what you want, and no matter how good it makes you feel, you cannot artificiall bridge the skilled/non skilled wage gap by paying people more then their jobs are worth.
How many people in California are employed by health insurance companies? How many jobs lost? Will they all become State employees?
Roger is racist, as he applies some fancy kind of stereotype against Norwegians.
Commentby GBS� 8/10/06@ 6:15 pm
“States that have higher minimum wage standards enjoy higher standards of living and economic prosperity than those states that have maintained the federal minimum wage of $5.15.
Is that a coincidence or is there a direct correlation between the two wage standards?”
17 states (and DC) have a minimum wage higher than the federal minimum wage. Listed below is the cumulative growth of Gross State Product between 1997 and 2005. The Republican Congress along with President Clinton passed the Miniumum Wage Increase Act in 1996, allowing states to have a higher minimum wage than the federal minimum wage. The following numbers represent the Gross State Product (GSP) growth from 1997 to 2005.
http://www.bea.gov/bea/regional/data.htm
AK 25028 to 39872 59.31%
CA 1019150 to 1621843 59.14%
DE 35488 to 54354 53.16%
HI 37546 to 53710 43.05%
IL 403982 to 560236 38.68%
MA 221827 to 328535 48.10%
MD 154139 to 244899 58.80%
MN 155938 to 233292 49.61%
ME 30873 to 45070 45.99%
NJ 300910 to 430787 43.16%
NY 654750 to 963466 47.15%
OR 96591 to 145351 50.48%
PA 343368 to 487169 41.88%
RI 28506 to 43791 53.62%
VT 15167 to 23134 52.53%
WA 178334 to 268502 50.56%
WI 151549 to 217537 43.54%
Total 3853146 to 5761548 49.53%
7 states have either no minimum wage or a minimum wage lower than the federal minimum wage:
AL 102433 to 149796 46.24%
AZ 127370 to 215759 69.40%
LA 113261 to 166310 46.84%
MS 57954 to 80197 38.38%
SC 97397 to 139771 43.51%
TN 153405 to 226502 47.65%
Total 651820 to 978335 50.09%
The rest of the states have the federal minimum wage of $5.15.
The US Gross Domestic Product (GDP) grew 50.56% in the same period.
US 8237994 to 12402967 50.56%
As you can see there is not a significant difference in GSP growth from 1997 to 2005 in the states that have minimum wages greater than the federal minimum wage and those that don’t.
Some additional information.
“Some idea of the empirical problems of this debate can be seen by looking at recent trends in the United States. The minimum wage fell about 29% in real terms between 1979 and 2003. Yet real wages have risen in the free market anyway, with real hourly earnings up by 7% since 1997. Some argue that a declining minimum wage might reduce youth unemployment (since these workers are likely to have fewer skills than older workers).[8] Over all, there is no consensus between economists about the effects of minimum wages on youth employment, although empirical evidence suggests that this group is most vulnerable to too high minimum wages[9].”
I�ve yet to find anywhere on the Internet some backing for your claim. If you have some I’d like to see it.
The minimum wage is the cheapest, best and least heavy-handed economic development policy there is.
If a business owner cannot generate enough value per employee to be able to pay at least $10 an hour, we don’t want that business here in this country. We have to modernize and move up the ladder of value-add. We don’t need a bunch of slumlord business owners who can’t pay good wages.
yea darn them for being a slave to a market economy.
interesting viewpoint.
Free health care, education, bus transportation, food stamps, welfare, cable TV, rent, and social services for all Illegals in California!!! [Oh, the state income tax just moved to 70% MTR after 10 grand to pay for this!! Now, you private sector taxpayers just keep working and pay your taxes, and don’t think about moving away!!!!] hehe, JCH
So lets see if we can encapsulate this: the D’RATS and dims (koscommies and H’ASSes and netnuts all) think they are the best political group to lead this country in perilous times ….and the way they prove that IS BY NOT EVEN BOTHERING TO MENTION THE MOST SIGNIFICANT TERRORISM EVENT SINCE 9/11.
Oh yeah, we can trust our safety to the nutburgers, kiddies and emasculated femimen.
The entitlement mentality
??????????????? As opposed to the “tilt the playing field to favor the white, the male, and especially the rich”? What the fuck are you saying here Sven?
More racism, thanks for playing.
I am a white male, and I have never gotten any entitlements except unemployment. Women and minoroties have more opportunities then I do for small businesses.
The entitlement mentality exists.
Your mindless repetition of deeply ingrained prejudice stands out like a sore thumb here, Sven.
Since I am not rich or advantaged, I would say not.
So your stand is basically, “sure, Maria Cantwell, in the most significant vote in our lifetime, supported initiating this illegal, immoral war that’s managed to kill thousands of innocents, tie up our military at a crucial time, and charge all the costs to our children–all in one fell swoop; but I’m voting for her because, hey, at least she’s not a Republican!” How, exactly, is that different from the Republicans who were ridiculed by the Dems during the last election for arguing, “sure, Bush, in the most significant act of a President in our lifetime, initiated this illegal, immoral war that’s managed to kill thousands of innocents, tie up our military at a crucial time, create new enemies faster than we can kill the old ones, and charge all the costs to our children–all in one fell swoop; but I’m voting for him because, hey, at least he’s not a Democrat!”
If the recent drubbing of Lieberman taught us anything, it should have taught us it’s the accountability, stupid! Of course no rep is going to vote your way every time. So when do you say, “enough–you’re outta here!”? When those assholes in Washington go around starting wars and lying about why, I’d say that’s a good place to start.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. Muslim groups criticized President George W. Bush on Thursday for calling a foiled plot to blow up airplanes part of a “war with Islamic fascists,” saying the term could inflame anti-Muslim tensions.
U.S. officials have said the plot, thwarted by Britain, to blow up several aircraft over the Atlantic bore many of the hallmarks of al Qaeda.
“We believe this is an ill-advised term and we believe that it is counter-productive to associate Islam or Muslims with fascism,” said Nihad Awad, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations advocacy group.
“We ought to take advantage of these incidents to make sure that we do not start a religious war against Islam and Muslims,” he told a news conference in Washington.
“We urge him (Bush) and we urge other public officials to restrain themselves.” […………………………………………………………………….Time for some major offense against these ragheads. Perhaps reducing Mecca to rubble might be a good start. Deport a few million muuuuuuuslims out of the US? Another good idea. Fuck these raghead MFers? Dearborn and Detroit would drop in population by 250,000. [Yet Detroit would still vote 110% Democrat] ]
BUSH LEGACY: A MIDDLE CLASS DROWNING IN DEBT
Perhaps Bush’s most enduring legacy will be a much poorer — and more indebted — middle class. This is not surprising; after all, his policies favor the rich at the expense of wage earners.
In an interview with Newsweek on-line, economist Christian E. Weller of the Center for American Progress says the middle class is being squeezed by a weak labor market, stagnant wages, and a rising cost of living. The explosion in debt, he says, is not a spending spree but people being forced to borrow for essentials.
“Q: Why are so many Americans falling into debt?
“A: The labor market has been rather weak, employment growth has barely kept pace with population growth, wages have been flat, INCOME HAS FALLEN FOR FIVE YEARS IN A ROW, and at the same time, prices for critical big ticket items … such as health care, housing, college education have gone through the roof. In that bind, the only escape valve for middle class families is to borrow more money.”
Weller says middle class debt, as a percentage of income, has tripled since the 1950s and now — for the first time in history — household debt exceeds household income.
“Q: Your report shows that household debt has now reached 108.4 percent of household income. Can you put those numbers into context?
“A: In 1952, the average debt to income (disposable income) ratio was less than 40 percent. Now, it’s 126 percent. Debt has … risen much faster than our income. … I don’t want to say that all debt is bad, but the growth we’ve seen in the last few years is unsustainable … because … they’re caught in this bind of a weak [labor] market and rapidly rising prices. What that means is that … unless income rises or prices slow down, people will have a really hard time making payments.”
But the real story underlying all of this is: The rich are hogging the nation’s economic output and leaving less on the table for the PRODUCERS — the wage earners who produce the nation’s goods and services.
“Q: Why aren’t people shifting to higher income brackets given that the economy is in fairly good shape?
“A: This has been one of the most profitable expansions for companies that we’ve ever seen. But it’s really a corporate decision where the money is going, and right now it’s really going more toward corporations and CEO pay than toward increasing wages and benefits.”
And that, my friends, is the real nature of the Bush economy: Prosperity for a privileged few, with little or nothing trickling down to the middle class. As I’ve posted previously on this blog, the falling deficit is due entirely to increased tax collections from two sectors: Corporate profits and CEOs whose pay is burgeoning — precisely where Bush wants to continue cutting taxes (which, of course, would nullify the improvement in the deficit numbers).
“Q: What can we do? What can the government do?
“A: We need faster income growth. Can companies afford [to pay higher salaries]? Yes. It’s a question of policies to step in and make sure that people are making more money. You can do this through a number of mechanisms in the short term: raise the minimum wage, expand the earned income tax credit, strengthen labor law to make it easier for people to join a union.”
(Roger Rabbit editorial note: Precisely the economic policies that Republicans OPPOSE.)
(continuation of quoted material) “Will we see these things? I think so. Whether it will happen on a federal level is another question. But it will happen on a state and local level.”
You bet it will happen — when millions of Americans who foolishly voted for GOP candidates realize they’ve been deceived and elect Democrats like DARCY BURNER, PETER GOLDMARK, and RICHARD WRIGHT.
The Newsweek online interview with Christian E. Weller is quoted under the Fair Use doctrine; for complete story and/or copyright info, see http://tinyurl.com/gj77z or ask your pet armadillo.
“We ought to take advantage of these incidents to make sure that we do not start a religious war against Islam and Muslims,” he told a news conference in Washington.
It’s already a religious war – it’s against everyone who isn’t a fundmentalist Muslim.
I’m not about to start wearing a fucking Burka or whatever those stupid head to toe body coverings are!
I don’t have any problem telling any male who pisses me off to fuck off!
I’m not giving up my house, my truck or my money and I’m keeping my driver’s license too.
I will vote whenever I want for whoever I want.
I don’t need a husband to support me and I never have.
Before I forget:
Exclusive.
Was the Jew killer a conservative or liberal. In the Seattle Times we have the following quote:
Haq’s friend said he couldn’t believe the timid, “geeky” man he knew from the tutoring center was capable of such violence.
“Are you sure we’re talking about the same person?” he said Sunday………….
He said Haq was not a devout Muslim and often complained that the Tri-Cities were too politically conservative.
“I’m beginning to think I was his only friend in the Tri-Cities. I don’t recall him hanging out with anybody else.”
Now for the other side we turn to Goldy’s story from last week:
Psssssssssstttttttt…….
Ah it looks like the story was all a bunch of hot air. Well there you have it. Enjoy all you Nazi Libs.
@170:
From what research I have done, that is the obvious answer. no matter what you want, and no matter how good it makes you feel, you cannot artificiall bridge the skilled/non skilled wage gap by paying people more then their jobs are worth.
And if the game is rigged to artificially inflate some jobs to be “worth” more than others?
Sven: Reading National Review does not constitute “research”. The actual field, investigate the numbers, by you know, real economists does not support your claim. But why disabuse yourself of your comfortable right wing ideological prejudices? You seem like a nice sort, but when people trot out lunatic balderdash such as “the culture of entitlment” you betray yourself as one who has not really “researched” this subject beyond that found in purile partisan tracts.
Sgmac writes: “A single payer system ran by the State is cheaper than the current medical insurance?
Just how are they going to accomplish that?”
You live in a state right next door to Canada and you ask this question? You have to be kidding. Try this: Read some stuff on health care by folks who may actually disagree with you.
You might learn something, and if nothing else, it would be good for your mind. Unlike jch, I believe you have one.
With the Burner and Cantwell races getting most prime billing here on HorsesAss, I’d like to acquaint my legion of loyal readers with what’s going on in the 4th CD race against eastern Washington’s ethically-challenged, do-nothing congressman Doc Hastings. To this end, I quote LIBERALLY from an interview with 4th CD Democratic candidate Richard Wright on our good friend Jimmy’s sister blog, McCranium.org:
“Jimmy: Thanks for taking some time out to answer questions. Campaigning is a consuming thing … and raising money is a high priority for any race. So, how is that going? How are the prospects for getting some National Dem support?
“Richard Wright: Yes, … fundraising is a big priority now. … But we are energized by the support we’ve received from people in this District who are fed up with politics as usual. I’m excited about putting everything I have into this race. Our campaign team is working hard and we’ve just ramped up our fundraising schedule. The main thing is getting the resources together to make sure our message touches as many people as possible. The state Democratic Party has been very supportive. We look forward to national level support. It’s only a matter of time, as we gain more and more momentum in this race. … Our rallies in Pasco and Yakima were very successful. We had lots of folks turn out to show their support. What’s clear is that there are no ‘safe’ seats in Congress this year. … Hastings is getting nervous. … It’s in the air; this is the year for change and I’m sure Hastings can sense it. …
“Jimmy: In Washington’s 4th Congressional District, immigration and farming largely go hand in hand. … How would you like to see this issue approached?
“Richard Wright: Farmers rely on migrant workers, especially for labor intensive farming like orchards. From pruning to picking, packing, and processing, labor accounts for approximately 50 percent of the cost of producing apples. If the bottom of the labor force dropped out overnight, up to 1/3 of fruit and vegetable growers would go out of business. We need to find reasonable solutions that reward workers and employers who play by the rules. We can have tighter boarder security. This is not only an issue of legal immigration but also an issue of national security. It’s wrong that over four years after 9/11, we still do not have secure borders. This administration and our Congress has failed us. …
“Jimmy: When it comes to agriculture, what do you think is hurting area farmers most?
“Richard Wright: … We need fair trade agreements. It’s wrong to lose an industry like asparagus, for example, because we have trade agreements in place that put our farmers at a distinct disadvantage … I’m in favor of producing as much food locally as possible. … Being able to produce food locally is an important aspect of national security. By producing our food locally, we also have a better handle on food safety. … Our policies should be crafted to protect our farms ….
“I asked one of my cohorts to pipe in with questions because I was especially interested in some outside the 4th Congressional District questions. So I am going to turn this over to Noemi Maxwell of Washblog. …
“Noemie: Over here on the west side of the mountains, Darcy Burner is a ‘rock star’ candidate. Are you looking forward to serving with Darcy here in the 8th?
“Richard Wright: … I think we should approach each race as if it were the final victory needed to secure a Democratic Congress. With a united effort, we can have a Washington State delegation made up of nine Democrats ….
“Noemie: If Democrats get control of the House, will we be able to re-establish balance without either caving in to the Republicans or creating excess/unnecessary ill will?
Richard Wright: … When we have control of Congress we … must try to eliminate extreme partisanship. Republicans have been heavy-handed in their leadership. … It will be hard for some to just forget the kind of partisan manipulation that’s gone on. The Democratic Party has always been the party of the people: the little guy, the teacher, the small businessman, a union worker, nurses and farmers. And when the Democrats take over the ‘People’s House,’ there will be major changes, of course. Democrats will invest again in people, not corporations. We will invest in healthcare for all Americans. We will invest in education, in good jobs.
“Noemie: Lastly, how can you help people from outside the 4th understand the importance of the issues there for all of us?
“Richard Wright: I think everyone can understand the connection between Mr. Hastings and the culture of corruption in Congress. That fact alone makes our race out here in the 4th District one of national importance. Everyone … in this country has a stake in electing leaders who think for themselves and don’t simply follow the party line …. Our issues here in Central Washington are the same as yours on the other side of the Cascades …. Folks here want good schools, affordable healthcare and retirement security. We’re just like everybody else. … We want real security. … We are feeling the pinch at the gas pump and we want real solutions for the nation’s dependency on foreign oil. We want hard working families to be rewarded with fair wages. We want to eat good local food and breathe good clean air. And we want to feel that our government once more is truly working in our interests.
“(Jimmy:) … My casual interaction with Richard has given me the opinion that he has much to offer … I think you will continue to hear Richard Wright talking strait up to voters. If you are listening (or reading), I think this is a contest worth paying attention to. It is the chance to bring perhaps the most honest and honerable candidate to Congress this fall. Be sure to visit Richard Wright’s web site for latest news on his campaign. You can also contribute on my Act Blue Page.”
For complete interview and/or copyright info, see http://tinyurl.com/k5ouk
Ass,
Actually I have never even been there, so whatever.
And if the game is rigged to artificially inflate some jobs to be “worth” more than others?
We call those unions.
170
I wonder if Svengali the Russkie can explain why Mike? Who is worth $28 million for two months of part-time work, when his main accomplishment as Safeco CEO was to put hundreds of people out of work.
Mike! is one of those CEOs who teaches us it’s foolish to be loyal to the company you work for.
i dont know anything about him beyond the surface stories. As near as I can tell he also raised their stock out of the toliet.
I am not one of his shills, and frankly I dont knopw who to vote for this fall.
I dont vote the primaries because i wont declare a party affiliation.
And I am not russian, but i am Italian. So feel free to excercise that racist wit and call me a wop.
Proud,
I asked because I can’t fathom it, without the State going completely and utterly broke. From what I have read about Canada’s system, it isn’t so great. Many of the rich ones come down here for their speciality care.
I am in the military system. It has it’s pluses and it’s minuses too. For whatever reason, health care in America is totally out of control. I see NO reason for hospitals to charge 20 bucks for one Ibuprofin or Aspirin, but they do, along with 20 bucks for a single Ace bandage and the list is endless. The “system” charges outrageous amounts of money to cover those who don’t have insurance, but then they also bill the state for those who don’t have insurance.
We’ll call her to account at the appropriate time. For now we’ll give her a chance to redeem herself. Commentby For the Clueless— 8/10/06@ 1:11 pm
Oh Clueless One, you are so full of HorsesAss crap it flows from your fingers. Once a politician is reelected they do what they want. You are such a shill for the liberal cause. No brain, no pain, no gain, no stain, just insane!
sgmac: “I asked because I can’t fathom it, without the State going completely and utterly broke.”
The results speak for themselves sgt. Those nations with national health care are not “going broke”. So that kinda’ puts a big crimp in your whole point. As for the rich, why should I care where they go to get health care? And prices here are so high because, frankly, our health care system is broken. It is rigged. It is utterly inefficient.
PBJ The New York Time is institutional deceitful.
Commentby PBJ— 8/10/06@ 1:29 pm
Does that include Safire, Brooks, and Tierney?
RPH6033 @ 133Left Turn at 123: Since these suspects were under survelliance in Britian for several months, I would expect that the Administration did indeed plan to trigger the arrests, and release the news, sometime in October. The fact that they missed arresting some of the suspects indicates that they weren’t fully prepared to move at this time. But possibly the information that the suspects were going to conduct a “dry run” within the next tow days spooked the British government, who ordered the arrests without waiting further?
RPH6033
I heard today that Britain had to move because their surveillance had been compromised. Getting the twenty-one was better than getting none of them. US had nothing to do with anything. They will still try to get the remaining 28 or 29 – they said about fifty were involved. Did I miss something?
Good of Tony Blair to come to his master’s aide. Yo! Blair, you’re a good poodle. Once again, fetch! Commentby Harry Tuttle— 8/10/06@ 2:14 pm
Now I completely understand why Puddy calls you MUMMIFIED BRAIN!
Me, I’ll wait and hear what Chucky Schumer says now since he could have been a casualty. Moonbats usually change their tune when they realize it could have been them!
“We call those unions.”
Oh, Sven, Sven, Sven. What do you call the AMA? What do you call restrictions on immigration? What do you call trade subsidies?
It is a question of market power coupled with political power. You conveniently turn a blind eye to market players you favor and condemn the rest or those who don’t pass your ideological litmus test. This is called inconsistency. Do please try to stop exhibiting it.
“frankly, our health care system is broken. It is rigged. It is utterly inefficient.”
I absolutely agree!
Smeg, you’re a fraidy cat. People throughout the world have lower infant mortality and are healthier . . . but you are so tied to what you now, you can’t even envision a different much less a better health care plan. Too bad. I bet you spent your whole military career clerking for some general.
How is the middle man eliminated?
You pay insurance company, they pay doctor.
You pay State, they pay doctor.
Not a clerk and I doubt that my medical care will change. Logistics! Without us, nothing happens on the battlefield!
(do I sound like a good liberal?)
Why how DARE the U.S. and the UK violate those 21 terrorists’ right to peacefully plan mass murder by blowing up airliners!!?? This is just another Bush-Hitler scheme to take away our freedoms! Those 21 individuals were members of the religion of peace and had hurt no one! You are all just PARANOID! There IS no imminent danger from terrorism! Books, not bombs! (spins off stool still shreiking….)
Good for you sgt. Logistics is crucial. However an army does not march on its insurance carriers!
Miss Goldie, But….but…..but what if Bush listened in to the terrorist’s cellphone calls? And what if the NSA followed the terrorist’s wire transfers of money? Miss “IDF” Goldie, maybe you and the ACLU can SAVE THE TERRORISTS and show Bush that you are not just another Democrat lib pussy!!!
@194 Yeah, right, Darrell would know about a mumified brain. . .being the proud owner of one!
Living in the 8th, [210] Could be the “Post Of The Day”!!!! Congrats, and very funny……………JCH
You’re right, they march on their feet and they need boots!
“Me, I’ll wait and hear what Chucky Schumer says now since he could have been a casualty.”………….Do you think Chuckie Boy will thank George Bush for saving his family? hehe, JCH
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 8/10/06@ 5:40 pm
“Is this the new wingnut talking point? Liberals started the war in Iraq?”
Nice try at rephrase, but as usual, factually inaccurate. I’m not sure how you became an attorney when you are so uninterested in facts.
I appears that the new liberal tactic, when you can’t refute an argument to call that argument a “talking point”. Or is the new liberal tactic berating the poster for some typo or grammatical mistake, when you can’t refute their argument.
“Next thing ya know they’ll say ‘it’s all Clinton’s fault!'”
I’ve never blamed Clinton for much of anything. If you can provide evidence to the contrary please do. Otherwise, it’s just another one of your baseless assertions. I doubt you’ll respond to this message, as you usually do when your arguments are refuted. It’s ironic that you are even more idealogically blinded than those you despise so deeply for being blinded by their idealogy.
Commentby dlaw— 8/10/06@ 6:27 pm
To summarize your comments in repsone to mine, I think you are saying “I hate the war”. I’m not sure how that refutes any of my positions. I’d suggest supporting Cantwell’s primary challenger in the primary and the Green Party candidate in the general election if this one issue is so important to you.
I am not a fan of insurance companies. Especially the “new edition” of them. My grandson was born Dec 23 and the hospital is still screwing up the billing……… She’s called them a dozen times, faxed them paperwork, all to no avail, she is still getting crazy letters. She was saying what idiots they are and I told her that’s why insurance is so high, to make up for knuckleheaded workers.
Smeg:”Not a clerk and I doubt that my medical care will change. Logistics! Without us, nothing happens on the battlefield!
Commentby sgmmac— 8/10/06@ 8:38 pm
And you want the whole world to be battlefield, don’t you.
Insurance company – for profit
Government – not for profit
Gidget,
I don’t like wars, so no, I don’t want the whole world to be a battlefield.
But I don’t have a problem standing up to someone who needs to be smacked either.
Peace and love doesn’t always work. There are times to fight and times for war.
We are in a war for our survival with Islamic fundamentalist, don’t be fooled. Diplomacy won’t work when your enemy wants to chop off your head and broadcast it around the world.
Insurance Company = for profit
Government = not for profit, but usually very wasteful
As an example, how bout that 50,000 dollars that WE Washington State taxpayers are getting ready to pay for one man to go to Colorado and get his penis turned into a vagina.
Killatroll: I thought Puddy (Darrell as you claim), ID’d you as Tree Frog Farmer. Wasn’t it the Rancidbuttputty calling?
Hey you moonbats, looks like your Lebanese friends are having mental issues like most lefties here on AssesHorse!
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S.....4525849052
When you reject the French that’s saying something.
Why did Harry Reid, John Kerry, and Ted Kennedy all jump at the first chance to bash Bush for diverting efforts against terrorism into Iraq? Did I miss the memo? Now moonbats, bear in mind that the US and UK stopped this latest terrorist attack. What gives with you moonbats?
http://today.reuters.com/news/
Smeg, I’m sure I can find all sorts of exceptions to what I think is right . . . but that doesn’t stop me from doing what is in the best interests of all of us. Nothing is perfect. You got grandkids . . . you should know.
I’m one of those silly people that thinks we resort to arms far too often. The Decider certainly thinks war is the way to leave a legacy . . . I don’t think he had this in mind, however.
Also, i don’t believe we need to police the world.
So, what if………….Ted Kennedy, Hillary and Miss Goldie were in charge of the Allies during WW II instead of Ike, Patton, and MacArthur?………………hehe, JCH
BTW, Smeg, insurance is so high partly because the medical profession doesn’t police itself. When doctors screw up, they get transferred to another hospital where they can screw up again. And their records remain secret.
Seems to me, if they want tort reform. they better change themselves . . . transparent records and immediate delicensing of poor doctors. Then, I might consider tort reform. Until then, litigation is all we have to fight them.
So, what if………….Ted Kennedy, Hillary and Miss Goldie were in charge of the Allies during WW II instead of Ike, Patton, and MacArthur?………………hehe, JCH
Commentby Doctor JCH Kennedy— 8/10/06@ 9:37 pm
If Ted was in charge we would have hit the beaches in Oldmobile convertibles. Hehe
Course, you might ask “Headless Lucy in the Sky, with Diamonds” about that. . .maybe Darrell told ‘her’ before he lit out for the South Sound. . . . .
JCH & DRWtF: “So, what if………….Ted Kennedy, Hillary and Miss Goldie were in charge of the Allies during WW II instead of Ike, Patton, and MacArthur?………………hehe, JCH
Commentby Doctor JCH Kennedy— 8/10/06@ 9:37 pm
Are you girls or gays? I’ve never heard guys do the “he he” thing before? Just curious . . .
194.
Yeah, my mummified brain recalls these examples of phony warnings of terrorist attack. How about yours?
March 2002.
Under the headline “Britain accused on terror lab claim”. the story stated:
“Britain was accused last night of falsely claiming that al-Qaeda terrorists had built a “biological and chemical weapons” laboratory in Afghanistan to justify the deployment of 1,700 Royal Marines to fight there.
The White House had to publicly admit that the story was fabricated to avoid deeper embarrassment because there was no actual evidence to support the claim. So the original source of the ricin was based on a foundation of total fabrication.
Then Tom Ridge announced that the terrorism threat level had been raised to orange. Armed police and the National Guard swarmed the streets of New York and Washington, helicopters and military jets patrolled the skies, Tony Blair considered putting troops on the streets of Britain, tanks were already rolling around Heathrow airport and the M25 motorway, airport screeners made sure more 70-year-old men took their shoes off to be searched. People were encouraged to buy first aid kits and duct tape to seal their windows.
Yet again, there was no reliable information to indicate a potential terrorist attack. Many observed that the alarm was merely a show of force to frighten the people into supporting an impending war on Iraq. The government was again terrorizing the citizens.
May 2002
The first use of the “enemy combatant” classification to circumvent the civilian courts was in the case of José Padilla. A former member of a street gang and an American citizen, he was arrested at Chicago’s O’Hare airport on a material witness warrant, and transferred to the Federal detention center in New York City.
In 2005, it was revealed that the only charges that could be brought against Padilla were for charitable contributions.
Around the same time, the same thing was being done in the bizarre case of Ohio truck driver Iyman Faris, a U.S. citizen, who was charged with an improbable scheme to bring down the Brooklyn Bridge.
August 2004
The alerts, planned weeks befor, came right after the Democratic National Convention in Boston as a carefully-orchestrated attempt to play on Bush’s strengths in the war against terrorism and blunt any momentum challenger John F. Kerry might have coming out of the convention.
Much of the “new” information cited as reasons for raising the alert dates back to 2001.
“The only real “increased chatter” we’re seeing lately is between the White House and the Bush campaign headquarters in Arlington,” muttered one Homeland Security operative who spoke to Capitol Hill Blue on condition of anonymity. “There’s no greater threat today than there was six months ago.”
DHS and the Department of Justice began talking up an increased terrorist threat during the Democratic Convention last week and scheduled release of the increased threat level over the weekend as both Bush and Kerry campaigned in the midwest.
Yet those who have seen the raw intel reports circulating between the various intelligence agencies say little information in them supported the claims of an increased threat of attack in the United States.
While Washington police Chief Charles Ramsey publicly endorsed the terror alerts, he complained bitterly to his staff that he and other police agencies have become “taxpayer-supported campaign workers for the Bush re-election campaign.”
May 2005
Former head of Homeland Security czar, Tom Ridge, said he opposed many of the heightened terrorism alerts, but was over-ruled by the Bush White House that ratcheted up the terrorism warnings — on evidence Ridge considered incredibly flimsy — to create a climate of fear in preparation for Bush’s 2004 re-election campaign.
“More often than not we were the least inclined to raise it,” Ridge told reporters. “Sometimes we disagreed with the intelligence assessment. Sometimes we thought even if the intelligence was good, you don’t necessarily put the country on (alert). … There were times when some people were really aggressive about raising it, and we said, “For that?” “
146
“I want my IRS deduction back for paying this State’s regressive mafia mentality consumption sales tax. Why didn’t you vote yes?”
Commentby sgmmac— 8/10/06@ 5:55 pm
You need to have a heart-to-heart talk with Denny Hastert and Bill Frist — because they’re the guys responsible for you losing your sales tax deduction.
172
“Roger is racist, as he applies some fancy kind of stereotype against Norwegians.” Commentby sven— 8/10/06@ 7:06 pm
I got nothing against Norwegians. Problem is, you ain’t a norwegian.
JCH & DRWtF: “So, what if………….Ted Kennedy, Hillary and Miss Goldie were in charge of the Allies during WW II instead of Ike, Patton, and MacArthur?………………hehe, JCH
Commentby Doctor JCH Kennedy— 8/10/06@ 9:37 pm
Are you girls or gays? I’ve never heard guys do the “he he” thing before? Just curious . . .
Commentby skagit— 8/10/06@ 9:49 pm
Just trying to communicate in terms you faggot lefties can understand. Hehe
157
“The 5.15 an hour wage is proportionately more then whe the wage was introduced in 1938, so it is not as out of hand as it may seem.” Commentby sven— 8/10/06@ 6:37 pm
Adjusted for inflation, the current minimum wage is higher than in 1938, but lower than at any time since 1948. And, people could live on less in 1938l; in those days, many people lived in smaller houses, grew part of their food, and commuted to work on low-cost public transportation.
Link to historical minimum wage chart with inflation adjustment: http://tinyurl.com/75zad
172
There’s nothing “fancy” about Ole and Lena jokes. It’s standard rightwing humor in Minnesota, which is heavily populated by — you guessed it — people of Scandinavian ancestry.
191 – I get it WOS – vote Mike :( McGreedvick!
Will do wingnut General – NOT. Take your meds, nightie night!
162
“Mangoes are always free and on the trees.” Commentby Doctor JCH Kennedy— 8/10/06@ 6:48 pm
Mortgage payment on your $1.5 million shack getting you down, Craig? For photo of Craig’s (JCH’s) shack, click here:
http://tinyurl.com/j8p45
(Note the global warming retrofit)
Barack Obama, the junior senator from Illinois, offers an easy smile from the cover of the fall issue of Men’s Vogue. He has been shot by celebrity photographer Annie Leibovitz, who has given him the high-gloss treatment for which the Vogue brand is famous. This is not one of those under-the-microscope portraits favored by newsmagazines in which every pore is visible and every mole made plain. Those images portend…
Barack Hussein Obama. A born muslim. The Drive By Democrat media feels free to debate whether a Mormon could ever be President, but using Obama’s middle name and discussing his birth religion is strictly verboten.
191
“Once a politician is reelected they do what they want.” Commentby Mike Webb Sucks— 8/10/06@ 8:08 pm
And this doesn’t work both ways? Tell me again how many GOP pols have been frog-marched off to jail?
Roger,
Somehow, I don’t think that will work since they don’t represent this state.
The state can fix it though, by getting rid of the sales tax which is regressive and punishes poor people.
This state needs a state income tax……. but then, you know that!
Mortgage payment on your $1.5 million shack getting you down, Craig? […………Well, paying a mortgage in Hawaii beats living in Section 8 housing in WASH, Roger.]
135
Hey John! Are you new to this blog? Welcome to HorsesAss!! Let me give you the 30-second briefing:
1. This is a liberal blog
2. Anybody can post here
3. There is no censorship
4. As liberals, our job is to verbally kick the living shit out of these unpatriotic, America-hating, fascist fucks who troll here
5. No mercy for wingnuts
6. Our terms are unconditional surrender
7. Klake is a nazi
Are you girls or gays? I’ve never heard guys do the “he he” thing before? Just curious . . .
Commentby skagit— 8/10/06@ 9:49 pm
Just trying to communicate in terms you faggot lefties can understand. Hehe
Commentby Dan Rather-Whats the frequen [……..skagit, I think Dan Rather just called you a fag! Well???]
189
I’ve never called anybody a “wop.” Nor have I ever met an Italian named “sven.” But then, I suppose you could find a Norwegian named “Luigi” if you looked hard enough.
Exclusive: U.S. picked up the suspects’ chatter and shared it with British authorities…………[Do you think Senator New York Chuckie Boy will thank George Bush for saving his family? Not a chance!]
233
“This state needs a state income tax” Commentby sgmmac— 8/10/06@ 10:25 pm
Well heck, Mac, we agree on something. It’s time for Washington to scrap its regressive, unfair, 19th-century, Rube Goldberg tax system and do what every other state does — a mix of income, sales, and excise taxes with property taxes used to support schools and local government.
Famous Democrat Quotes: “J….E..W….S!!!” [REP Cynthia “BitchSlap” McKinney’s, DEMOCRAT, GA father], “FUCKING JEW BASTARD!” [to Dick Morris, from HILLARY!] “Hymietown, NY” [Jesse Shakedown” Jacksooooon], “Black women don’t lie about this!” [Al “Suits” Sharpton, discussing Tawana Brawley,], “WOP!” [Roger Rabbit] hehe, JCH
234
Why would I pay to live in Section 8 when I can live free in a hole in a public park?
I’ve never had any desire to live in Hawai’i, Craig. Too fucking claustrophic! I need dirt between me and the horizon, in case I fuck up and grab the Ben-Gay instead of the Preparation H again.
242
Man it’s a long walk back to Seattle from Billings.
240
““WOP!” Commentby Doctor JCH Kennedy— 8/10/06@ 10:34 pm
Typical fucking wingnut — can’t spell worth shit.
“WAP!” That’s the sound my hind feet make when they’re knocking JCH upside the head, in a (futile) attempt to knock some sense into him.
I suppose JCH wants us to feel sorry for him because he’s poor. In Seattle, $1.5 million buys only a garage.
As Redneck would say, we’re not responsible for your poor choices, Craig.
233
It won’t work because they’re Republicans.
wow! this
thread has
250 comments! That’s more than the pathetic little competing blog gets in 5 years.
BatshitCrazy@215 Britain, using good police work and surveillance caught this plot. When their surveillance was compromised they moved to bust the conspirators. The US was informed after the fact. That’s the memo you missed.
Doc, Obama’s middle name is Hussein? and he’s muslim? Hmmm, not the best for being an elected official in this country…..Maybe in Iran
242 “I’ve never had any desire to live in Hawai’i”
Speak for yourself, dood. I’d move in a heartbeat–even go take a look at the job listings for the Keck observatory every now and then.
I’ll even deal with being JCH’s neighbor, if he’s willing to put up with me.
I’ve never had any desire to live in Hawai’i, Craig. Too fucking claustrophic! I need dirt between me and the horizon, in case I fuck up and grab the Ben-Gay instead of the Preparation H again.
Commentby Roger Rabbit […………………………………………………The Big Island is as large [square miles] as the state of CONN. Surf, and snow ski on the same day. [Mauna Kea and Kona/Kahala] It’s not for everyone. Some get “island fever”. Others NEVER go to the “Mainland”. Different stokes for different folks.]
Harry: You attribute no URL to any of your conspiracy theories. I see something in the UK Guardian. If you can’t deliver URLs you post Rabbit Crap!
[252] ArtFart, Some neighbors work there. They drive from sea level to 14,000 feet several days a week! It’s cold and windy on Mauna Kea, and the road there sucks [Saddle]. Sometimes I see lots of NASA and Dept of Defense trucks going up and down to the top. BTW, RR, Neil Young just came to “Helo Side” from his home in Kahala to “slum it” with the locals and eat in the cheap Thai eatery “downtown”. The cast of “LOST” did some filming locally, but they came, filmed, and heading back to North Shore within 48 hours. “Keep On Rockin In The Free World”……………..
[252] ArtFart, Some neighbors work there. They drive from sea level to 14,000 feet several days a week! It’s cold and windy on Mauna Kea, and the road there sucks [Saddle]. Sometimes I see lots of NASA and Dept of Defense trucks going up and down to the top. BTW, RR, Neil Young just came to “Hilo Side” from his home in Kahala to “slum it” with the locals and eat in the cheap Thai eatery “downtown”. The cast of “LOST” did some filming locally, but they came, filmed, and heading back to North Shore within 48 hours. “Keep On Rockin In The Free World”…………….. [Typing sucks……I’m out.]
killatroll-Tree Frogger what are you babbling about? Tell us about your schizophrenia?
250 comments! That’s more than the pathetic little competing blog gets in 5 years. Commentby Roger Rabbit— 8/10/06@ 10:48 pm
To trumpet your worthless blowhard entries as comments is laughable Rabbit. If you could get past the single sentence posts (except your conceptguerilla cheep labur conservatives) this blog would have some readability!
Hey Goldie:
Nothing on Israel finding Iranians among the dead Hisbollah guerillas?
Nothing on the airline plot?
Awww poor Goldie, good news on the war front makes you look like a buffoon on AssesHorse? There is a real war going on Goldie. Your buffoonmates forget the 1883 attack on the WTC, or the two 1998 embassy bombings in Africa or the 2000 attack on the USS Cole. Each of these happened during Cigar’s watch.
So Clueless One, Garry Guttle, and Treekilledafrog your BS is worthless. There is nothing the moonbats have said to assuage the fears of normal Americans regarding terror Sir Moonbat Goldie!
Yeah yeah this is a liberal blog. Full of GWB hateful epithets. Well moonbats when you take off in your next flight remember Mike Moore says there are no terrorists. They are all great people. PacMan asked for you to take one home. I haven’t seen a moonbat step up to the plate. I think Goldie in an IDF uniform would do Seattle good!
Oops should type and watch TV
1883 attack on the WTC should be 1993 attack on the WTC
254
If you want to participate in political conversation, you have to read the newspapers. I’ve quoted from AP news stories. There’s no mystery.
I’m not a search engine, use google, like everyone else.
WOS – and 9/11 happened on Shrub’s watch. The moron didn’t bother to take anything in the August PDB to heart. ‘Cuz putting on a brush-clearing show for the cameras is top priority for the pretender-in-chief.
Didn’t I remind you to take your meds?
Oh Clueless One, Oh Clueless One: It’s your moronic moonbattic people who said the islamofascists are a result of GWB policies. All I do is prove you wrong. This crap happened during Cigar’s watch! Hurts huh?
Garry Guttle: URLs? All you are is a plagiarist. The three professors scream out when a righty does your act. I for one will call moronic moonbattic types like you everytime I see your garbage.
264 – Keep spinning your fantasies whackoboy. This November like last November is going to be most sweet.
By the way, the pretender-is-a-thief is back at 33%.
Roger,
And you arent a rabbit, you are a racist.
266
ROGER RABBIT POLL
Who would you rather believe?
[ ] 1. A human pretending to be a rabbit
[ ] 2. A rat pretending to be human
261
Looks like rightwing terrorists are using this blog to communicate with each other in code.
264
Speaking of clueless, can any of you wingbats (especially you, WOS) tell me who armed Saddam? (Hint: Initial GHWB)
269
Excuse me, I’m off by 1 president, it was Ronnie Raygun who armed Saddam … back when Saddam was our “ally” against Iran.
264.
You’re really delusional.
Roger, if that is true, why did we face so much Soviet hardware in Desert Storm? The Migs? The T-72 tanks?
Idiot.
Roger,
According to the Stockholm Institute of Peace here is who armed Saddam:
Number one, the former Soviet Union (Russia)– 57 percent.
Next France–13 percent
China–12 percent
Czechoslovakia–7 percent
Poland–4 percent
Brazil–2 percent.
Bringing up the rear were Egypt, Romania, Denmark, Libya and the United States of America, at 1 percent each.
Yea, boy we sure beefed him up didnt we?
Note also that Czechoslovakia and Poland were part of the Warsaw PAct, which meant the Soviets controlled 68% of Iraqs Weapons build up.
Add China and the totals indicate Iraq had 80% of its weapons come from communist regimes.
And the soviets had a constant flow of weapons into Iraq since 1973 until 1990, whereas the US was only involved from 1982-1988
Of Course, dont let the truth stop you from being a racist.
I am also dutch, want to make sport of that too?
“I don’t belong to an organized political party. I’m a Democrat.” – Will Rogers.
Roger at 234
I’ve posted occasionally in the past, and over at SP (got to be way too one-sided over there, where they decided that the only Democrats that were welcome were those that couldn’t make a reasonable argument).
Even now, I find myself amazed at being considered a “Liberal”. Almost as surprised as I was when I noticed that most of the folks I was voting for were Democrats. After all, my main political objectives have always been:
1. Smaller government that stays out of people’s personal lives.
2. Balanced federal budgets. (I have children, and don’t think they should pay my bills.)
3. Where government does need to take action, it does so in a way that enables people to help themselves whenever possible.
While the Republicans have talked a good game on all those points, the results have been just the opposite. Given my choice between a party that SAYS things I approve of and one that DOES things I approve of, there’s not much of a choice. Of course, recently the Republicans aren’t even giving lip service to most of the things I believe in.
Still, personal freedom, individual rights and smaller, less intrusive government being liberal values. What a concept.
JB at 276: Your views are pretty similar to mine.
As for the federal budget, it’s okay to borrow money in an emergency, or for investment. An emergency was the Great Depression of the 1930’s, or WWII. An investment was the Space Race, the Interstate Highway System, etc. You might even argue that the anti-poverty programs were an investment in the people.
But ingrained, institutional debt is another matter altogether. That is what the Republican party bequethed to the Democrats in 1992, and the Democrats had to spend eight years to fix it. Now we are going through the whole cycle again, and in 2008 the Democrats will have to fix the problem all over again.
We need a fundamentally balanced budget so the federal government is competing for dollars with private industry, and we arent’ transfering wealth to other nations in the form of T-notes. And we need to keep the ability to borrow if we really need it, in a real emergency, without already being maxed out.
If the Republicans followed their own stated philosophy, this wouldn’t be a problem. But they give lip service to a balanced budget, while turning over the keys to the treasury to the rich. As David Stockman how well that worked out in the 1980’s. He believed the Republican line about needing to balance the budget, but when he tried as Budget Director he got into trouble. It’s all about giving back to the rich, everything else is secondary.
Prefacing this comment with this statement: The current adminstration and the current congress’s spending policies SUCK!
Looking back to the 80’s was fighting the cold war a good investment aking to WWII?
278: Fighting the cold war could be considered a good investment. But it was a very dangerous one, relying entirely upon Gorbachov being a reasonable man who was willing to allow his nation, his political party, and its economic and political system to collapse under economic pressure rather than take the risk of open war. At the time I didn’t think it was worth the risk. Luckily, it turned out well.
But at what other time did the U.S. have a large tax cut, at the same time it was trying to fight a war? Certainly not during the Civil War, WWI, or WWII, or Korea. The tax cuts were the root cause of the large budget deficits then, and now.
all good points, thanks for responding.
My good librul fiends. My PC died so I have no real way to post regularly. But I did see MWS is being called me. How quaint. Looks like Treekillatroll and Cluless have mental issues again. Anyone who challenges them are Puddy.
Good luck dunces!
281, Pud Kennedy!! We need you!! best regards, JCH Kennedy
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