King County Executive Ron Sims delivered his State of the County speech today, and in it he made two major proposals.
The first is to provide health insurance to the county’s 16,000 uninsured children, a proposal that is both economically sensible and humane. Half these uninsured children are already eligible for state or federal programs, and the first phase of a pilot project will hire outreach workers to inform parents and help then complete enrollment forms. I’ll provide a full analysis of the entire proposal as soon as I have a chance to, um, analyze it.
But I want to briefly comment on Sims’ second major proposal: the creation of an Executive Office of Global Warming, that would coordinate the county’s response to climate change and advise the various departments in regards to the expected impact. For example, let’s say the county was planning to building a scenic shoreline road about 5 feet above sea level, but sea level is projected to rise 10 feet… well the Office might advise that the road be built a little further inland. Stuff like that.
The scientific community is virtually unanimous that global warming is real, and that it is caused by man’s carbon dioxide emissions, and that unless we start reducing emissions now, the impact is going to be devastating… facts that An Inconvenient Truth is going to drive home to audiences this summer. Nobody but hardcore propagandists and head-in-the-sand corporatists deny it. And so Sims’ proposal is not only creative, it’s downright forward thinking.
At least it would be forward thinking, if not for the fact that Sims first proposed such an office when he was a councilman, way back in 1988. And how did our region’s self-proclaimed paper of record respond to a politician thoughtfully preparing for the future? Well, read for yourself this embarrassingly vitriolic editorial in the Seattle Times from September 7, 1988:
IF THE “greenhouse effect” is exacerbated by political hot air, the world is in real trouble.
The hyperbolic clouds of rhetorical gas belched out on this issue in recent weeks could easily choke someone – or at least cloud the vision of otherwise rational people.
A local example: King County Councilmen Ron Sims and Bruce Laing have proposed creation of a new science-and-technology office to prepare this county for the greenhouse effect’s dire effects. The two-scientist office, costing taxpayers at least $100,000 a year, would study the matter and issue a report on what can be done to save King County.
Does the county really need another government office, which inevitably would grow into a mini-bureaucracy with a big staff and a fat budget? Nonsense.
“I don’t think anyone disputes the reality of the greenhouse effect,” said Sims, warning of rising water levels in Puget Sound and other apocalyptic local repercussions.
On the contrary, many reputable scientists dispute the reality of the greenhouse effect. Others seriously question its long-term impact. Human understanding of climate changes is admittedly imperfect, but some past variations appear to be cyclical and unrelated to human activity.
A climate model developed at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology shows that average annual global temperature has often varied by as much as a few degrees over the past 400 years. Normal fluctuations in the climate may explain this, many climatologists believe.
S. Fred Singer, an atmospheric physicist and professor emeritus of environmental sciences at the University of Virginia, wrote recently in The Wall Street Journal that the greenhouse effect was by no means a given.
Between 1880 and 1940, global temperature increased by about 1 degree Fahrenheit – “well before human influences were important,” Singer wrote. Then between 1940 and 1965, there was a temperature decline – even though fossil-fuel burning and automobile use increased greatly.
The point is that the sky-is-falling, icecaps-are-melting, oceans-are-rising rhetoric must be tempered by common sense.
If Sims and Laing want to study the greenhouse effect, they should buy themselves some tomato plants and a bag of steer manure – which shouldn’t be at all hard for such experienced politicians to find.
Uh-huh. I suppose Sims should expect a big apology from the Times, because he was right and the were not only wrong, they were complete and total assholes to boot.
More on this later too, including some pretty frightening visual aids.
UPDATE:
Just read the Seattle Times op/ed page. No apology. Guess that’ll come tomorrow.
So, Pope, any made-up Drudge stuff to pollute this thread?
“The first is to provide health insurance to the county’s 16,000 uninsured children, a proposal that is both economically sensible and humane.”
Does Ron Sims propose to include insurance for the children of illegal aliens? Granted, that many of these children were actually born in the USA, and presumably aren’t counted in this 16,000, since they are US citizens and their parents have them covered under the federally subsidized programs.
But I don’t think we should cover illegal immigrant children who were born in other countries. Especially since local government would be bearing 100% of this burden, as federal tax dollars (which cover the vast majority of Medicaid expenses) are not available for anyone who is not a U.S. citizen or legal resident.
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER AGREES THAT GOLDY IS AN ASSHOLE:
Tuesday, May 23, 2006
Referendum 65: Pass the petition
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER EDITORIAL BOARD
Churches played a key role in the civil rights movement of the 1960s, delivering a message from the pulpits denouncing discrimination. This past weekend’s attempt to enlist some of the state’s churches to roll back civil rights legislation was woefully out of character with that tradition.
We don’t know just how many congregations took part in “Referendum Sunday,” part of a drive to gather signatures for Referendum 65. If enough signatures are garnered, voters would be asked in November if they want to throw out a law the Legislature passed earlier this year making it illegal to discriminate on the grounds of sexual orientation in housing, employment and lending.
Not two weeks earlier, clergy led prayer services in eight Washington cities in support of the new gay rights law, thanking God for creating and loving all people “just as we are.”
Hmmm. Which would Jesus attend?
The pulpit is a legitimate political stage. The unavoidable duality of spiritual human beings is reconciling the teachings of their faith with the realities of life around them. Churches, synagogues and mosques are natural forums for contemplation and discussion of ways to achieve that reconciliation. Part of the First Amendment tradition is a community of faithful people free to express and practice as their beliefs guide them.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....lpited.asp
Sims could certainly contribute to the slowing of Global warming by SHUTTING HIS DAMN MOUF!!!! The KLOWN is such a friggin’ GASBAG that the hot air he regularly emits could melt even the mightiest of glaciers!!! Is Ron going to give up his Limo???
Where is the money coming from to insure these kids?
What “bureaucracy” is being created to underwrite and monitor WHO QUALIFIES????
Are illegal aliens going to be covered???
Ron loves to emit his “dreams”. He is long on “warm & fuzzy” and short on details.
I agree Goldy that the insuring of children is a no-brainer. It makes sense any way you look at it and it is simply the morally right thing to do.
As for the office on Global Warming, I am not really sure what good this office would actually do. The example you mentioned about building the city park would seem to be better handled by changes to building codes and the like.
Perhaps there is something to this and I am just not seeing it.
Nindid, in an ideal world you would be right. But bureaucracies have a tendency to focus on narrow goals. This is particularly the case with global warming, which doesn’t fit neatly into the usual bureaucratic boxes. What ends up happening is that little is done because no one is given clear responsibilities.
You suggest that one could respond through changes in the building code and such. But even under this scenario there is still a need for leadership grounded in sufficient knowledge of the subject matter. Remember that global warming is still a very new field of expertise.
Maybe that leadership could be cultivated through some type of coordinated effort between agencies. But even in that case each of the participating agencies will need to put MUCH more effort in developing expertise in this issue. That will require dedicating staff, improving training, and changing some decidedly old-guard attitudes.
Sometimes it is easier to create bureaucratic change by starting with a fresh sheet of paper than trying to incrementally change an existing operation.
I think that Sims is on the right track, and I applaud Goldy for giving visibility to what could turn out to be THE most important issue of the new century.
No, let’s not cover illegal children. Just let them show up in the emergency room and let Hippocrates deal with them.
Ah, our daily papers denying and ignoring reality — mocking it. What’s that about prophets in their own time?
It’s also a parents’ responsibility to feed their child, but we don’t seem to be hung up on that either. Why not just put all King county children in a giant orphanage where Ron Sims can be the head master? Then the county can feed them, clothe them, insure them, whatever. Parents will be a thing of the past.
Richard Pope shows his true colors of honest dialogue. His posting above of the Seattle PI editorial leaves out the last paragraph. It is a deliberate attempt to deceive readers by looking like he printed the whole editorial. He didn’t. He left out the last paragraph. The last paragraph completely changes the rest of the editorial as regards Referendum 65.
“But civil liberties – like freedom of speech – are just that, civil; provided by law, not subject to the whims of a straw vote on whose liberties are protected and whose are not.”
Looks like Richard is on the side of those who believe in discrimination and will do whatever it takes to make it happen, including selective editing of editorials to misrepresent the Seattle PI’s position.
What else have you been misrepresenting lately?
I love the way you debate — create a flimsy strawman and indignantly kick him down.
Providing access to basic healthcare undercuts a parents’ role? That’s simply absurd.
You remind me of a local politician who once argued that the path the communism began with buses, bike paths and recycling.
Richard Pope shows his true colors of honest dialogue. [etc.]
Commentby Steve Zemke MajorityRules Blog— 5/23/06@ 8:02 am
The point of my quote from today’s Seattle P-I was to show that Goldy was being an ASSHOLE in his Saturday 05/20/2006 posting, where he urged folks to go to church, and videotape petition Referendum 65 petition signing, claiming it was illegal for churches to do this, and urging that they lose their (property?!) tax exemptions.
http://www.horsesass.org/index.php?p=1650
It is obvious that the Seattle Post-Intelligencer believes that churches have the LEGAL and First Amendment right to circulate whatever kind of petition that their religious leadership believes to suit their faith and conscience — including Referendum 65 petitions.
It is also obvious that the Seattle Post-Intelligencer disagrees with the message that the referendum-signing churches are promoting, even though I did not quote the entire editorial. In the first paragraph (which I included), the P-I editorial says that these churches are “woefully out of character”.
Old-Fashioned Liberal: “I disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to my death your right to say it”
Modern Liberal: “I disagree with what you have to say, and would like you put to death for having said it”
Maybe you should change the name of your blog to “Majority Dictates Blog” or something even stronger.
Where is the money coming from to insure these kids?
What “bureaucracy” is being created to underwrite and monitor WHO QUALIFIES????
Are illegal aliens going to be covered???
Ron loves to emit his “dreams”. He is long on “warm & fuzzy” and short on details.
Commentby Mr. Cynical— 5/23/06@ 5:29 am
Mr. Cynical I was in your town last Sunday bypassing the wrecks on I5. Who was that clown chasing horses across the pastures in that rainbow clown suit? He had big floppy ears and a funny fluffy tail and legs like a rabbit.
To answer your first question you are going to pay the money to insure those kids (goats).
They will charge those horse lovers a new manure tax for every critter you own. Now you will see more crazy clowns running around your neighborhood counting horses and cows and taking advance of them for their own personnel pleasure.
The second question what bureaucracy will be in charge to collect the moneys and underwrite the policies, Ron Sims relativities? He is the man who understands the art of smoke and mirrors and will make sure he gets eighty per cent of the proceeds for running the program. Dean Logan will count all proceeds that are collected and foreclose on those who refuse to pay the tax.
The third question is an easy one Ron Sims supports all illegal aliens that enter this State. Yes they will be covered under the UN charter that they are real citizens of this planet, and they were born deprived.
Ron went to school in Tier Germany where Karl Heinrich Marx is most famous for his analysis of history in terms of class struggles, summed up in the opening line of the introduction to the Communist Manifesto. Now he is transforming King County into a more acceptable government call socialism Seattle style. Next week you are to go to Freemont Street and bow down to his favorite leader Vladimir Ilyich Lenin. Do not forget visit UW campus and read all the names of the teachers who made this possible.
re 2: “..illegal aliens.”?!?!?! I prefer to call us NAFTA REFUGEES! Explain to us , Richard, how the term NAFTA Refugees is not accurate?
I don’t think you can.
Richard @3,
No, you have proven that you are the asshole, Richard. First of all you deliberately exclude the final paragraph, which changes the nature of the editorial. Second, you deliberately put words into the editorialists mouths that were not there: my argument is with the churches actively canvassing for signatures, not with them speaking on the issue.
But finally — and this I find most offensive — you deliberately took this thread off topic the third comment in. Fuck you. Really… you of all people know the etiquette here, and this makes you no better than JCH.
Afraid to speak about insuring children? Afraid to talk about global warming? Screw you.
So my suggestion to others is to ignore Richard’s diversion from here on out, and stick to subject of my post.
re 13: The money to insure these kids comes from their parents taxes and yours and my taxes. A more appropriate question might be : “Where does the money go?” It goes to some “private” company. I’d think you’d be in favor of that. Plus: Look at all the huge savings we get by not overloading the emergency rooms.
How can you Righty extremists be so thickwitted?
And you are absolutely in the right, Goldy. Global warming has been an issue with me since I first heard about it on the Smother’s Brothers show in the late 60’s — before the right wing idiots of the day pressured the government to cancel the show on the “equal time” rule!
Righties are lying hypocrites!
“The pulpit is a legitimate political stage. ”
Sure it is, but just not as a 501 3{c} non-profit. If you want to be political at the pulpit be sure to pay your taxes as required by law.
But finally – and this I find most offensive – you deliberately took this thread off topic in the third comment in. Fuck you.
Commentby Goldy— 5/23/06@ 9:17 am
Goldy, you are right about that. I did take this thread off-topic. In a different environment, I should apologize. I would be “woefully out of character” if your threads were rarely ever taken off-topic, and I was a flagrant isolated offender in that regard. However, your threads always get taken off-topic — it is part of the “character” of this blog.
Basically, I followed your link to the Ron Sims article in today’s P-I. Then I looked at the rest of the newspaper, and found the editorial quite compelling. I was very impressed that the liberals at the Seattle P-I supported the churches’ right to speak and gather R-65 signatures, even though they strongly disagreed with the churches’ point of view.
How much of these funds will actually come from outside KC? The funding shell game is like this: Dream up a program, sorta fund it locally and incorporate state and federal funds.
So in the future when the state and feds change (cut) funding the program is now in crisis.
If Ron Sims wants a program, it should be FULLY funded by KC.
Of course it’s a good thing to do…it’s “For the children.”
That’s libspeak for a 1/2 way program that increases the size and scope of government and anyone who dissagrees is now evil because they don’t “care” about children.
“So my suggestion to others is to ignore Richard’s diversion from here on out, and stick to subject of my post.
Commentby Goldy— 5/23/06@ 9:17 am”
We should take this a step further with the upcoming midterm elections. Don’t let the republicans change the debate in this country with gay marriage ban and illegal alien red herrings. Instead reframe the debate to what this election is actually about — a referendum on the direction the Bush republicans have taken this country. $3 Trillion dollars of new debt, a bungled War on Terror, failed military strategy for Iraq, rampant crime and corruption amongst the republicans, destroying FEMA, unabated no bid contracts to Halliburton, Black Water Security, KBR and others, violating our civil liberties, spying on innocent Americans, ruining our reputation around the world, alienating us from our allies, etc.
I ask any conservative to clearly state the ONE thing the Bush administration has done exceedingly well. The ONE accomplishment your most proud of as a conservative.
Commentby Goldy— 5/23/06@ 9:17 am
“Really… you of all people no the etiquette here, and this makes you no better than JCH.”
I assume you meant “know”. Richard appears to have struck a nerve here. I’ve never seen you admonish Roger Rabbit or JCH for their truckloads of off topic garbage. I’m not sure why you are admonishing Pope, or maybe I missed some new set of posting rules here. I can’t recall an HA thred ever staying on topic. It’s part of HA’s charm, if you ask me. I just got tired of the excess of Roger and JCH so I stopped reading for a while.
As far as the county providing health insurance for the uninsured, that is a noble idea that I expect will have expensive unintended consequences. The county will likely provide better insurance than what many working poor receive, providing them a strong incentive to become “uninsured” so they can get the better county benefits. I’d also agree with not insuring illegal aliens (immigrants don’t sneak into a country), this is further incentive for additional illegal entry into our country. Where will the money come from for this program? Higher taxes? If not what services will be cut to pay for these new services?
You think I am afraid to talk about insuring children?
Well here is my modest proposal — let’s eliminate the sales tax subsidy for public transportation, and use the money to insure ALL LEGAL RESIDENTS of King County who are presently uninsured.
At present, 1.2% of the sales tax goes to public transit subsidies — 0.8% for King County Metro transit and 0.4% for Sound Transit. Each 0.1% in sales tax generates $50 million per year in King County. This makes our public transit subsidy to be some $600 million per year.
Let’s assume that 200,000 of King County’s 1.8 million residents are presently uninsured. And further assume that 50,000 of these folks are illegal aliens who shouldn’t be here in the first place. Illegal aliens are more likely to be uninsured, since more of them work under the table or in no-benefits jobs, and none of them are legally eligible for federally-subsidized medicaid programs.
This leaves 150,000 legal King County residents that presently do not have health insurance. And let’s also assume that none of these 150,000 are poor enough to qualify for federally-subsidized medicaid programs, since they would have presumably done so already.
For $600 million a year, King County could buy some reasonably decent health insurance to cover 150,000 uninsured legal residents. Certainly, such policies wouldn’t cover 100% of costs, and there would need to be reasonable deductibles, co-pays, and co-insurance. But $4,000 per year per person can buy a lot of insurance.
We always talk about the European countries that have universal health coverage. However, those same European countries have public transit systems that are either self-supporting or require minimal subsidies.
“That’s libspeak for a 1/2 way program that increases the size and scope of government and anyone who dissagrees is now evil because they don’t “care” about children.
Commentby Jack Burton— 5/23/06@ 9:43 am”
Helloooooooooo. Change two words in your statement to make it true; “libspeak” to “Bush Republicans” and “children” to “corporations.”
Any true conservative would be vehemently against the republicans for irresponsibly bankrupting America.
The county will likely provide better insurance than what many working poor receive, providing them a strong incentive to become “uninsured” so they can get the better county benefits.
Commentby ConservativeFirst— 5/23/06@ 9:47 am
I strongly agree with you on that one. And what is the definition of “working poor”? The median family income in King County is now close to $80,000 per year. It was $72,250 in 2005, and will be higher of course for 2006. Median family income varies by family size, of course, and the $72,250 figure was for all family sizes for 2005.
School lunch programs provide reduced price lunches to families that have less than 80% of the county median family income and free school lunches for families with less than 50% of the county median family income. For a family of 4, these break points are $58,000 and $38,950.
I would assume that Ron Sims would probably consider 80% of the county median family income to be “low income” and eligible for county health insurance. This would be a cutoff of $58,000 per year or less for a family of 4 for 2005 (and a bit more in 2006).
There are lots of self-employed people in King County who make less than $58,000 — especially according to their income tax returns — including many people who own their own small shops or businesses. Most of these folks, if they aren’t poor enough to qualify for Children’s Medical, will be buying their own health insurance. Often, they buy catastrophic health insurance plans, with high deductibles and co-insurance.
If Ron Sims plan is adopted, we can expect to see tens of thousands of people in these categories stop buying health insurance for their children out of their own pockets, and switch to the county health insurance program.
Goldy, Roger and Gang will this State Democrats us this tactic this fall instead of increasing taxes in this state for Seattle�s maintenance programs for the streets. Will they still close the local schools because they lack the skills to deal with the real problem? Will Seattle School district start paying minimum wage to the teachers and staffs to save the schools like some corporations do to save the company? Now would it be cheaper to send the kids to the suburbs like the Eastside until the schools meet acceptably standards or trade the homes on the Eastside for Seattle�s and let the bay boomers live in the city? Goldy the Eastside will more than welcome you folks with diverse cultures like yours, and they will not otherwise you for wearing gloves in the house. Hell we even have a few spare rabbit hutches over here to put fluffy little bunnies in for your daughter. Yes they do teach Spanish in the school on the hill, but the Bedouins have to speak English first because we do not believe in promoting second class citizens.
http://famulus.msnbc.com/
Democrats to use minimum wage as election weapon
By Alan Elsner
TUCSON, May 23 � Democrats in Arizona and across the nation believe they have a secret weapon in November mid-term elections: putting minimum wage increases on state ballots to boost turnout among supporters.
We always talk about the European countries that have universal health coverage. However, those same European countries have public transit systems that are either self-supporting or require minimal subsidies.
Commentby Richard Pope— 5/23/06@ 9:48 am
Not Bad there Richard you got down right to the T, but all those folks from West Seattle will be moving back from Canada and he cost will rise. Nice try but they were born here in Socialist Seattle and would not past up any freebies.
Ron Sims may be correct that many lower income people don’t take advantage of existing government programs.
Health insurance for children is provided already by the government at income levels a lot higher than many people realize.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/def.....8-478-0075
The Children’s Medical Program is provided to families who earn up to 200% of the federal poverty level. In 2005, that 200% level for a family of 4 was $3,225 per month, or $38,700 per year.
The Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP), which is supposed to require modest monthly premiums, covers families at between 20% and 250% of the federal poverty level. In 2005, that 200% level for a family of 4 was $4,032 per month, or $48,384 per year.
If I am not mistaken, Gregoire got the state legislature to eliminate premiums for CHIP as part of the 2006 supplemental budget. If this is correct, families at up tp 250% of the federal poverty level no longer have to pay anything at all to keep their children insured.
I would imagine that there are plenty of families in King County at less than $4,032 per month for 4 people ($3,353 for 3, $2,673 for 2, $4,711 for 5, etc.) that are not taking advantage of the existing children’s health programs through DSHS. Some of these work for employers with expensive health insurance benefit programs. Others are presently buying individual coverage for their children. And others may have no coverage at all.
Perhaps Ron Sims can help increase awareness of these programs by hiring more overpaid county employees.
A much more effective way to spread this message would be to work through school districts, since every school district has regular and direct contact with parents of all children between the ages of 5 and 17.
Sims has identified a worthy nail, but he’s proposing to use the wrong hammer. What we need is universally available medical care, not only for children but for everyone. Bringing “insurance” into the equation doesn’t make much sense. We’ve allowed that industry to take over the responsibility for paying for medical care in this country, and that’s one of the things that got us into the mess we’re in.
Goldy, your post raises a number of important issues. One of these issues (which is probably best saved for an open thread) is the media treatment of people who turn out to be correct. The Daily Howler did a nice job yesterday with the mainstream treatment of Al Gore versus John McCain.
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh052206.shtml
Short version: don’t hold your breath for that Times apology.
Goldy the Eastside will more than welcome you folks with diverse cultures like yours, and they will not ostracize (translation error) you for wearing gloves in the house. Hell we even have a few spare rabbit hutches over here to put fluffy little bunnies in for your daughter. Yes they do teach Spanish in the school on the hill, but the Bedouins have to speak English first because we do not believe in promoting second class citizens.
Now would it be cheaper to send the kids to the suburbs like the Eastside until the schools meet acceptably standards or trade the homes on the Eastside for Seattle’s and let the bay boomers live in the city?
Commentby Fidel Castro sister city Cuba— 5/23/06@ 10:34 am
It certainly would be cheaper. The Seattle School District spends 20% more per student than does the Bellevue School District. However, Bellevue is considered to provide a much better education by almost all objective and subjective standards.
Seattle has the money to burn in their school system, since there are relatively few students per capita in Seattle. Alternative lifestyle folks are incapable of natural biological reproduction. Liberals tend to marry late, if at all, and abort unexpected children, instead of marrying or raising them on their own. Normal families with children don’t like to live in Seattle due to the high cost of living, the repulsive liberalism, and the poor quality of schools.
Liberal Democrats often criticize WalMart for having so many children of its employees participate in the state medical programs.
However, WalMart does have decent medical benefits available to its employees. But if employees want their children covered by the WalMart program, they have to pay some portion of the employer-subsidized monthly premium, as well as deductibles, co-pays, and co-insurance.
Let’s take a single mother of 2 children working for WalMart (family size of 3). Relatively few WalMart employees make $19 per hour, but we will give this lady one of the better jobs in the store. This makes her gross monthly income to be $3,293 per month, based on 173.33 hours in a 4.33 week month.
Even this rather well-paid WalMart employee would be worse off accepting employer health insurance coverage for her children. She can qualify for CHIP, since 250% of the federal poverty level for a family of 3 is $3,353 (and that was for 2005). Thanks to the 2006 state budget changes, she is not required to pay any premiums for CHIP. Nor are there any deductibles, co-pays, or co-insurance.
If it makes sense for the atypical WalMart employee earning $19 per hour to reject employer health insurance for her children, then why should the typical WalMart employee making $8 to $12 per hour choose to accept employer health insurance for their children either?
Hey Goldystein, How does one “prepare for global warming”? Plant pineapple in Alaska?? What total liberal bull shit. As for “guvment” health care, 11 million more illegals are on there way to have 11 million babies in your hospitals for free!! Pay up, libs!!!!!!!
“Prepare for golbal warming”!! All Democrats must give up their cars and trucks!!! No using lawnmowers! Take the bus! No heating or air conditioning, and Al Gore will be using a bike rather than a Gulfstream G5!!!!! [hehe]
GLOBAL WARMING ALERT: GORE BURNS 439,500 LBS OF FUEL TO ATTEND SUMMIT
“The most vulnerable part of the Earth’s environment is the very thin layer
of air clinging near to the surface of the planet, that we are now so
carelessly filling with gaseous wastes that we are actually altering the
relationship between the Earth and the Sun – by trapping more solar
radiation under this growing blanket of pollution that envelops the entire
world,” Vice President Gore told the U.N. Global Warming conference of 159
nations this morning in Koyto, Japan.
In what was one the most dramatic speeches in recent memory, Gore announced
to world leaders: “Whether we recognize it or not, we are now engaged in an
epic battle to right the balance of our Earth, and the tide of this battle
will turn on when the majority of people in the world become sufficiently
aroused by shared sense of urgent danger to join an all-out effort.”
carbondioxidemethanenitrousoxidehydrofluorocarbonsperfluorocarbonssulfurhexa
chloride.
The message is serious. So serious in fact, the DRUDGE REPORT has
calculated that Vice President Al Gore is burning more than 439,500 pounds
of fuel, or 65,600 gallons, at a cost of more than $131,000 on his 16,000
mile daytrip, just to deliver the warning.
“The extra heat which cannot escape is beginning to change the global
patterns of climate to which we are accustomed. Our fundamental challenge
now is to find out whether and how we can change the behaviors that are
causing the problem.”
Gore’s plane, a Boeing 707 gas guzzler burns on average 4.1 gallons a mile.
The complete Washington to Florida to Washington to Alaska to Japan and
return to Washington trip calculated from commercial air mileage tables is
just over 16,000 miles total. Gas gallons needed for AIR FORCE II to go
16,000 miles: 65,600. Applying the average price of $2.01 per gallon of
Jet A to the 16,000 mile r/t — the fuel cost alone passes $131,000.00.
There are 6.7 pounds per gallon of jet fuel. Total pounds of fuel burned on
Gore’s Global Warming Express — 439,500.
Unprecedented idiot liberal democrat Leadership!!!!
Since “conservative” in this country now most often means “Christian” (see Pope’s comments about visiting churches, JCH’s plaintive cries in his sleep hoping his God will forgive him for dreaming of Puddybud’s virgin sons, etc.) how do all these “Christians” feel about condemning innocent children to ill health simply because their parents have brown skin, as most illegals do? Do you really think God will welcome you to his kingdom having spent your life condemning his children to a miserable existence here on earth?
If we’re trying to save money, how about cutting off the red states, who slurp at the handout trough like there’s no tomorrow. (Pssst, Mark the Reddick, the blue states are producers, the red states are not.) Good health care is actually a very good investment; preventing health problems is much cheaper than fixing them later.
What a bunch of heartless retards.
re 9: Hanet Esse: Usted’s “values” are in conflict. On the one hand you want to make people work as cheaply as possible, and then you dun them for not being able to properly care for their families. If you are to stupid to see that YOU are the problem, then just get out of the way and let the grownups take care of things and you can go fulminate in the corner with all the other insane wingnuts.
re 20: You mean like the.06% of funds that the Federal Government supplies our schools with? Your tax money goes, in large part, into armaments. Who is enriched by the arms industry> Not you or me, chump!
re 23: They are not “illegal aliens”, Ricardo Popay. They are NAFTA REFUGEES.
@24: “Helloooooooooo. Change two words in your statement to make it true; “libspeak” to “Bush Republicans” and “children” to “corporations.”
Any true conservative would be vehemently against the republicans for irresponsibly bankrupting America.”
Nice way to spin off topic. Please try and focus.
I realize that you feel EVERYTHING is Bush’s fault, even my untied shoes, but that’s NOT what we’re talking about here.
@37 If conservative means “Christian” them liberal means Socialist, Eco-Terrorist, Politically Correct person of non-specific gender. Moonbat for short. Heh heh
If anyone wants to save time, I will characterize all of Pope-A-Dope’s posts in this thread.
1) Lie
2) Deflect
3) Mis-characterize
4) Lie
how do all these “Christians” feel about condemning innocent children to ill health simply because their parents have brown skin, as most illegals do?
Commentby Anonymous— 5/23/06@ 12:21 pm
I feel that it is economic suicide for King County to assume the entire burden, when neither the federal nor state governments fund these sorts of benefits for illegal aliens.
If King County provides health insurance coverage to illegal alien children, then illegal alien parents will flock to King County. They will be able to get free government health care for their children here, which is something that is not available to them almost anywhere else in the country.
In addition, illegal alien employers will gravitate towards King County. They will be able to hire illegal aliens more cheaply here, since they won’t have to provide medical coverage for their children. Such employers can pay a somewhat higher wage to their illegals, and keep the rest of their savings in their own pockets.
It has absolutely nothing to do with their skin color or what country they came from (and should be going back to under current law).
If federal law changes, and these folks are allowed to legally live in the United States, they should have the same government benefits as all other legal resident aliens are otherwise entitled to.
That wasn’t the question, Richard. So it’s OK to let kids suffer if it prevents you from using your Halliburton stock gains to buy another BMW? Or we should only strip the poor of one necessity, public transportation, to provide another, health care? I’m sure Jesus approves.
god goldy….global warming? first of all…..no one knows if there is actually “global warming” caused by what people are doing or if it’s just another of earth’s natural cycles.remember the big wig-out about the holes in the ozone layer? well….now they are closing.so how do you explain that?
we can’t even predict what next week’s weather will be accurately and you are proposing that ron “fat bastard” sims should open up an office of “global warming” to take on this “issue”? as if seattle were the center of the universe! LOL.
if i didn’t know that you were serious this would be beyond laughable. truly!
maybe ron “baby doc-i got my limo you can walk ” sims should get out of his limo and pull his head out of the trough long enough to hear the incredible laughter aimed at seattle for once again making complete fools out of themselves.
and ,sadly, now as usual you are his mouthpiece….and head cheerleader. maybe you should head back east….and take the rest of the easterners with you that have ruined what my husband [from a washington pioneer family] “claims” used to be a beautiful and sane place to live…washington state. frankly…even though i love him dearly…i think he must be making it up, as the washington i know is nothing more than a cheap immitation of commie land.
god….global warming! are you going to have a nuclear free zone sign next you idiots?
you know you guys are screwed when the uber liberals in arcata california are calling you “whiney, sexless pansies”…a direct quote.
perhaps a “testosterone free zone” sign would be more accurate.
The ozone hole is closing because of decreasing concentrations of CFCs in the atmosphere…a compound banned because it was damaging the ozone layer. In Christmas Ghost’s crazy little world, the ozone hole would have closed anyway, even if we all simply sprayed freon into the air all day long. Likewise, landfills automatically empty, toxic waste is a myth, and for all I know, christmas ghost doesn’t ever need to take a dump because her body miraculously does something with the byproducts of the cheetos she eats.
If we’re trying to save money, how about cutting off the red states, who slurp at the handout trough like there’s no tomorrow. (Pssst, Mark the Reddick, the blue states are producers, the red states are not.) Good health care is actually a very good investment; preventing health problems is much cheaper than fixing them later.
What a bunch of heartless retards.
Comment by Anonymous — 5/23/06 @ 12:21 pm
We here in Cuba do not pay our doctors with money but with chickens and sugar. No need to save money because I have all the money and teachers, nurses, doctors and peasants all get paid the same and not one cent more than 12 cents an hour. Now we have the best health care in the world and it cost pennies on the dollar to you yanks. Come to Cuba and bring all your money (I get 80% to find you a good home) we love socialist who want to share everything with us poor folks. Now if you have aids we have a special place for you to stay so no one will bother you, and we have new medicine that will make you feel good. Do not worry about global warming for we have not import any new cars since the 1960’s and the ones we have do not run on gas. We do not have problems on second hand smoke because we export all our cigars to other countries. Oh yes we also have separation of church and state and no one prays in my office.
Hey, Richard Pope, you forgot to quote from Ken Schram. Here is part of his comments
”
…it’s all about legalizing discrimination against gays and lesbians.
And I think that Timmy’s just trying to turn conservative Christians into another tool in his money-making initiative arsenal.
To those folks, I have a now familiar question: What would Jesus do?
Would He place His name on a petition to deny people housing; deny them a job, or a promotion?
Would Jesus mess with people’s ability to get insurance, or a bank loan?
Or would Jesus see Timmy as a master manipulator; a financial philistine interested in lining his pockets at the expense of civil rights? …”
You can read Ken Schram’s full comments at http://www.komotv.com/kenschram/story.asp?ID=43554
So it’s OK to let kids suffer if it prevents you from using your Halliburton stock gains to buy another BMW?
Commentby Anonymous— 5/23/06@ 2:03 pm
Unfortunately, I don’t own any Halliburton stock. And only rich liberals drive BMW’s these days.
And if the children of illegal aliens are really suffering, their parents can always move back with them to their native lands. They snuck accross our border for supposedly better economic opportunities in the USA, and if those aren’t panning out, they can always go back home.
And if you think the health care system sucks in some foreign country where these illegals are coming from, you can always donate money to your favorite charity operating in those countries. Or simply look up that country’s embassy in Washington, DC and write your aid check out directly to that nation’s government.
Hey, Richard Pope, you forgot to quote from Ken Schram. Here is part of his comments
Commentby Steve Zemke MinorityDictates Blog— 5/23/06@ 3:08 pm
I don’t see anything in Ken Schram’s commentary opposing the legal right of churches and pastors to promote legislation and causes of their own choosing.
Folks like Goldy, on the other hand, are hypocrites. If churches were helping get signatures on an initiative to increase the sales tax to further subsidize empty buses and overpriced commuter trains, or to pay for health care for illegal aliens, Goldy would be all out in favor of it.
But have churches try to promote a political cause that Goldy disagrees with, and he will urge his followers to attend church for the first time in their lives, and videotape everything in the hopes of causing legal problems and tax problems for the churches in question.
If King County provides health insurance coverage to illegal alien children, then illegal alien parents will flock to King County. They will be able to get free government health care for their children here, which is something that is not available to them almost anywhere else in the country.
Umm, Richard, stick to legal analysis.
First off, your posts have some pretty huge assertions in them that you’ve yet to address (first, that Sims is proposing coverage for illegal immigrants, second, that health care coverage for kids means massive immigrant migration- health care doesn’t feed you, and while there are some jobs you can do undocumented, the majority of them exist in good old Republican Eastern Washington or places like Skagit County- mostly agricultural/piecework ones. But even if we swallow those camels, your argument STILL has problems.
Emergency rooms don’t get to deny care based on immigration status, because the Hippocratic Oath doesn’t include a part that goes “but you can let the wetbacks die in the ER”. ER care also happens to be, surprise surprise, the most expensive places to do medical care. So, given that illegal immigrants exist and Ron Sims can’t fix that, and given that you have the same choice the Midas guy posed in the commercial: “You can pay me now or pay me later”, might it be reasonable to render medical care to illegal immigrants in a less expensive setting?
Also keep in mind who operates Harborview, where a lot of ER care in the county ends up. Hint: it’s King County.
And your posts on the Seattle School District and Bellevue are just stupid. You’re not controlling for per-capita income.
http://www.seattleweekly.com/n.....chools.php
In Bellevue, one of the most ethnically and economically diverse suburbs, 18 percent of students have lunch subsidized. In Seattle, it’s 40 percent. (The cost of feeding students is not part of the per-pupil spending figures.) Poverty is a factor in student performance, and students who perform poorly tend to be more expensive to educate.
Really, stick to other subjects, because it’s pretty pathetically easy to own you on things like this. You’re actually OK when you talk about law- it’s the other stuff that makes you look like you’re a high-school student arguing in freshman debate and getting their butt kicked. And the other stuff…go look up “argumentam ad hominem”. Characterizing liberals as abortion-loving freaks? Pretty low, man.
I will agree with you on one SMALL issue, pricing- as a single parent, when I decided to purchase a place to live, the only place in Central King County where I could be reasonably close to where I’d work the next 10 years (a commute time of 30 minutes to the Eastside or Seattle) ended up being Bellevue. Seattle has some ridiculous premiums on housing. I would argue the cause of that is a lot of resistance in neighborhoods to increased density- look at how long Seattle fought over mother-in-law apartments and “skinny houses”. NIMBY is not a partisan issue or one that is limited to conservatives or liberals, however.
Richerd Pope @ 25
“If Ron Sims plan is adopted, we can expect to see tens of thousands of people in these categories stop buying health insurance for their children out of their own pockets, and switch to the county health insurance program.
Nice try. If you actually read the post, it states that the first priority of the progeram will be to inform and sign people up for care for which they are qualified. Parents who are poor enough to qualify for Medicaid will be signed up for Medicaid, and so on. If a parent is qualified for Medicaid, they WON’T be signed up for the county program, they’ll be signed up for Medicaid. Yep, that’s what it said.
You think that parents who are too well-to-do to qualify for Medicaid will drop their current insurance and put their kids on a barebones county program? Would you?
#53 was me
eponymous coward @ 52
You are correct re: medical care. Just a little bit of preventive care goes a LONG way to save the taxpayer dollar. it does not make public policy sense to cut off the poor from affordable care.
Seattle has some ridiculous premiums on housing. I would argue the cause of that is a lot of resistance in neighborhoods to increased density- look at how long Seattle fought over mother-in-law apartments and “skinny houses”. NIMBY is not a partisan issue or one that is limited to conservatives or liberals, however.
Commentby eponymous coward— 5/23/06@ 3:34 pm
Hey coward would you mind moving to Havana we have a great red system and we could use some of those skinny houses for our poor folks. We give you 2.25 an hour to work on the projects and you can send your kids to our great schools. Free Health Care and great nurses and doctors you only pay with two chickens a visit. We could use you later to run that new prison the Yanks built on the other end of the island. Maybe your friends can also run that nuclear reactor for our electricity, we are now having black outs due to fuel shortages. Maybe you can bring some of those wind ‘mills to carry us threw until the Yanks leave the Island. Please give the Governor a huge for me; I love wild and crazy ladies. Che is our hero and our rebel for our cause.
-If Sims and Laing want to study the greenhouse effect, they should buy themselves some tomato plants and a bag of steer manure – which shouldn’t be at all hard for such experienced politicians to find.-
Hey, I didn’t know Sharkansky had a seat on the Times’ editorial board back in 1988! How funny is it that the SP crowd is STILL buying in to this hokey “global warming is a hoax” crap 18 years later?
Time to come out of your caves, right wing troglodytes!
And your posts on the Seattle School District and Bellevue are just stupid. You’re not controlling for per-capita income.
http://www.seattleweekly.com/n.....chools.php
In Bellevue, one of the most ethnically and economically diverse suburbs, 18 percent of students have lunch subsidized. In Seattle, it’s 40 percent. (The cost of feeding students is not part of the per-pupil spending figures.) Poverty is a factor in student performance, and students who perform poorly tend to be more expensive to educate.
Commentby eponymous coward— 5/23/06@ 3:34 pm
You need to look at everything in the Seattle Weekly article. 32% of the school children in Seattle attend private school, versus something like 10% in Bellevue. Wealthy liberals don’t believe in the public school system — a pattern demonstrated in one urban area after another, but particularly noticeable in Seattle.
Probably more than 18% of the school children in Bellevue should qualify for reduced price school lunches, since the cutoff is at 80% of the county median family income. While Bellevue is a little above the county median as a whole, families with school age children tend to be below the median income.
Like I say in an earlier post in this thread, Ron Sims should encourage school districts to promote government programs for lower income familes. There are a lot of families that qualify for school lunch subsidies, but are either not aware or too proud to file for them. Same thing with DSHS Children’s Medical coverage.
You think that parents who are too well-to-do to qualify for Medicaid will drop their current insurance and put their kids on a barebones county program?
Commentby Anonymous— 5/23/06@ 3:46 pm
Who said the proposed county program would be “barebones”? There are no “barebones” government medical programs for the poor. Medicaid, for example, has no premiums, no co-pays, no deductibles, and no co-insurance.
By contrast, individual health plans tend to be “barebones” — market rate premiums must be paid, deductibles are often $1,500 to $2,500 per person per year, and there is usually a 20% co-insurance payment up to a stop loss level of $10,000 to $15,000 per year. Often, drugs and mental health and the like aren’t covered.
People who don’t qualify for Medicaid usually take the “barebones” coverage, since they can’t readily afford the much premiums for the better individual plans.
In either case, I see people dropping private coverage in favor of the county plan. People who are on “barebones” private plans can get much better coverage in a county program. People who pay big premiums for better individual coverage can save an awful lot of money by having the county coverage.
ASSnonymous: You sure dream a lot regarding my virgin sons.
Well here is one of them now.
“Whomever you are Anonymous, I am not inspired by your continual attacks on my character. If your wife likes to use carrots, so be it. It demonstrates your prowess around the house. By the way I am a virgin and proud of it. That’s all I have to say on this matter.”
Thanks son. So ASSnonymous, that’s twice he has responded to you. What say you dumbASS?
Speaking about rich people and driving expensive cars, have you taken a drive around Seattle lately? Lots of rich people driving expensive cars. Who lives in Seattle? Jim McDimwitt supporters. They have to be donk!
Also, 32% of Seattle parents send their children to private schools — which is about twice the percentage of people in Seattle who vote Republican. Therefore, most Seattle parents who send their children to private schools must be Democrats.
Eponymous @ 52:
That was an excellent analysis. Your comments are always a breath of fresh air on this blog.
I wish we could have honest discussions here. Apparently not — unless one simply ignores wingers such as Pope, who seems fixated on scoring cheap political points.
I don’t think Richard cares what we think of his credibility. We’re just the props in his little performance.
Green Thumb: I thought Richard’s retorts in 58-59 made sense too. Or, did you skip that?
Puddybud, my interest is the healthcare angle (let the others debate schools). I find Richard’s use of data to be misleading and his generalizations questionable.
Healthcare is an important issue. Turning it into a partisan football isn’t at all helpful.
RP @ 59
“I see people dropping private coverage in favor of the county plan”
Your opinion notwithstanding, do you have any objective reason to believe this? Any examples of similar situations elsewhere showing ACTUAL results from which we might draw a reasonable inference? Because frankly, opinions in here are worth what they cost.
RP @ 62
“Also, 32% of Seattle parents send their children to private schools – which is about twice the percentage of people in Seattle who vote Republican. Therefore, most Seattle parents who send their children to private schools must be Democrats.”
Good Lord, RP! “Therefore” NOTHING. This is not a syllogism, and you can LOGICALLY draw NO conclusion from the two unrelated facts you cite. Based on your premises, it could be the case that ALL parents of children enrolled in Seattle private schools are Republican, or all Democratic, or neither, or any combination in between. Don’t play us for fools, or don’t be one yourself (whichever applies).
Then again, if you have RELEVANT data, you should present it.
According to today’s paper, the first 8000 of the 16000 uninsured children will be covered through signing them up for existing programs, and the last 8000 will be covered AT NO ADDITIONAL COST TO THE COUNTY, based on a plan that will be developed in 2006 by an expert board.
It’s really too bad that almost all of the comments in this post have the discussion way off track. Furthermore, it’s sad to see that not one commenter has yet commented on the innacuracy of Goldy’s statement which he asserted as fact.
The scientific community is virtually unanimous that global warming is real, and that it is caused by man’s carbon dioxide emissions, and that unless we start reducing emissions now, the impact is going to be devastating… facts that An Inconvenient Truth is going to drive home to audiences this summer. Nobody but hardcore propagandists and head-in-the-sand corporatists deny it.
This statement is absolutely and proveably false. I urge every reader of this site who wants to see environmental policy guided by reason and not by emotion to read the links below. There’s a wealth of information out there, but there are several things that are undeniably wrong about Goldy’s statement above that must be pointed out.
1) There is not a virtually unanimous agreement amogst all scientists that Global Warming is real, or that it presents an imminent threat. Many of the top climate researchers heartily disagree with the conclusions of the IPCC (UN climate research panel) which has been shown to be active in environmental advocacy as opposed to a strictly objective and idependent group of research scientists trying to establish the physics of the atmosphere.
2) Almost all scientists do agree that there has been somewhere around 1 degree celsius rise in temperature in the last century, with the largest portion of warming occuring before 1950.
3) But, all scientists do not agree with the output of the computer models used by some scientists (many with the IPCC) to predict future warming of anywhere from 5 to 11 degrees.
4) And, all scientists do not agree that there are imminent and disastrous consequences associated with Global Warming.
5) Lastly, all scientists do not agree that the measurable 1 degree rise in temperature in the last 100 years is attributable to man, or caused by Greenhouse Gases. For example, did you know that water vapor in the air comprises a far greater ability for the atmosphere to store heat than does carbon dioxide?
Also note the source of Goldy’s statements is Al Gore’s new movie. Do you believe what you read and research with your own eyes in an interactive way, across a large array of scientists both inside and outside of the IPCC, or do you believe a propaganda style documentary produced by a career politician that is fed to you one way, with no ability on your part to verify facts?
Hopefully at least a few of the readers here will have the courage and integrity to investigate some of the links below and read more on there own rather than accept what they are told by politically biased sources. Goldy has already accepted this as necessary political dogma, but you should go read around and make the decision for yourself. These are just a few links, there are many, many more. You might also want to research the controversy surrounding a former environmental activist named Bjorn Lomborg who had the guts to do the math on the numbers quoted by doomsday advocates. He reached new conclusions based on facts and changed his opinion.
Also read Alfred P. Sloan Professor Richard Lindzen of MIT. He is one of the most preeminent meteorlogical scientists in the world today.
http://www.ocs.oregonstate.edu.....ponse.html
http://www-eaps.mit.edu/facult.....te2001.pdf
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008220
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1816
http://mitosyfraudes.8k.com/INGLES/Warm.html
http://www.thenewamerican.com/.....cience.htm
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4674
http://www.sitewave.net/news/s49p1083.htm
http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/
http://www.co2science.org/scri.....1/EDIT.jsp
48, 56
You should get your politics straigt when attacking liberals.
Joseph McCarthy was virtually unknown outside his home state until 9 February 1950, when he made his celebrated speech alleging that the State Department was in the hands of Communists, which catapulted him into the national limelight he enjoyed for the next five years.
Four months after McCarthy’s opening salvo, the Korean War broke out, bringing Truman’s foreign policy into harmony with his domestic drive against the Left and furnishing McCarthy with more ammunition for his anti-Communist crusade. In this climate most liberals turned tail. Senator Hubert Humphrey proposed establishing concentration camps for subversives, and declared on the floor of Congress: “I want them (Communists) removed from the normal scene of American life, and taken into custody.” The American Civil Liberties Union, supposed guardian of First Amendment rights, instituted its own loyalty purge excluding from membership those suspected of harbouring subversive ideas.
Jessica Mitford, A Fine Old Conflict (1977)
Jessica’s son keeps up the fine old conflict to this day.
Send a Piana to Havana
Get them straight, that is.