Writing for Salon.com, Michelle Goldberg goes into some of the long history behind the right-wing crusade against a non-existent liberal “war on Christmas.
Henry Ford was sounding the alarm about the war on Christmas in his notorious 1921 tract “The International Jew.” “The whole record of the Jewish opposition to Christmas, Easter and other Christian festivals, and their opposition to certain patriotic songs, shows the venom and directness of [their] attack,” Ford wrote. He listed local outrages: “Christmas celebrations or carols in Philadelphia, Cincinnati, St. Paul and New York met with strong Jewish opposition … Local Council of Jewish Women of Baltimore petitions school board to prohibit Christmas exercises … The Council of the University Settlement, at the request of the New York Kehillah [Jewish leadership], adopts this resolution: ‘That in the holiday celebrations held annually by the Kindergarten Association at the University Settlement every feature of any sectarian character, including Christmas trees, Christmas programs and Christmas songs, shall be eliminated.'”
To compare today’s “war on Christmas” demagogues to Henry Ford is not to call them anti-Semites. Rather, they are purveyors of a conspiracy theory that repeatedly crops up in America. The malefactors change — Jews, the U.N., the ACLU — but the outlines stay the same. The scheme is always massive, reaching up to the highest levels of power.
Goldberg is careful to avoid labeling the current crusade as anti-Semitic… but I’m not. At first I found the deluded rantings of Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly and John Gibson to be so pathetic as to be funny. But I’m not laughing anymore. I’ve done a lot of thinking and a lot reading on this subject over the past couple days, and I’ve come to the conclusion that this is anti-Semitism, pure and simple.
When you talk about a war on Christmas, or anything Christian, most Christians do not instantly think of the enemy as secular humanists or even Muslims… they think of Jews. Yes, like other forms of racism, anti-Semitism has mostly been pushed beneath the surface of respectable American dialogue for the past few decades, but two millennia of institutionalized Jew-hatred is not so easily washed away. Whether the intent is to blame the Jews for the rash of secular “Happy Holidays” that’s supposedly destroying our nation is not the point… many Christians, in buying into this bullshit rhetoric, will naturally blame Jews… whether it be the Jewish lawyers of the ACLU or Jewish merchants or whatever. Furthermore, this latently anti-Semitic “war on Christmas” rhetoric is clearly being harnessed for political purposes.
In her seminal work, The Origins of Totalitarianism, Hannah Arendt distinguishes between good old fashioned religious Jew hating, and modern, political anti-Semitism. While the latter certainly draws upon the former, anti-Semitism is more of a secular, racialist ideology, generally harnessed for political purposes. Indeed, Arendt argues that far from being just a terrible by-product, anti-Semitism was actually an organizing principle of the Nazi’s totalitarian regime.
This is, above all, a political crusade, and when O’Reilly and his ilk rage against a “war on Christmas,” they dangerously appeal to the inner demons of Christian society, for when Gibson talks about a vast anti-Christian conspiracy reaching into the heart of American life, it’s only natural for some Christians to look towards their historical boogeyman. Gibson writes:
“Last Christmas most people had a hard time finding Christmas cards that indicated in any way that Christmas commemorated Someone’s Birth. Easter they will have the same difficulty in finding Easter cards that contain any suggestion that Easter commemorates a certain event. There will be rabbits and eggs and spring flowers, but a hint of the Resurrection will be hard to find. Now, all this begins with the designers of the cards.”
No wait… that wasn’t Gibson, that was Henry Ford again, writing in his infamous 1921 anti-Semitic tract. Eight-five years later, Gibson and O’Reilly are careful not to name the enemy, but the vile rhetoric and its impact are unchanged. For who else would wage a “war on Christmas” than Christianity’s favorite 2000-year-old enemy… the Jews?
The right’s war on the “war on Christmas” is a political strategy intended to divide the nation along religious and cultural lines, and like all wars, there will be victims. How many Fox viewers have openly and angrily derided this attack on Christian America, and how many Jewish children have already been harassed by their schoolmates as a result? Anybody who has ever been a child should understand that this sort of open hostility happens everyday, and that the subtle strains of discrimination that lie beneath the surface of 21st Century America are not so subtle to the children who are its target.
And so the more the likes of O’Reilly and Gibson feign offense at this imagined attack on the rights of our nation’s white Christian majority, the more offense I shall take at their dangerous and hateful rhetoric. Intentional or not, they are harnessing the force’s of anti-Semitism to achieve a political end, and it’s time people started calling it for what it is.
What an absolute load of Shit this posting is.
goldy…you have done it again. taken a non story that is a parody of a real story and tried to make it your own.
good try but no cigar………….
Goldy, do you have ANY Shame?
Are you Jewish only when it’s fits your own agenda?
So you are tying in abunch of Henry Ford Comments from 1921, Why not Lindberg as well? They’d be just as hateful and just as outdated.
goldy…if you really want to see anti-Semitism at work…please do check out what your “progressive peeps” are doing when they rally in san francisco wearing palestinian scarves…….
it’s the new cool, goldy.
the cause du jour……..
and they are ALL DEMOCRATS……..
maybe you should write about real slights instead of your imagined ones, hmmmmm?
Why is the White House leading the war on Christmas? After all, it is the Bush family HOLIDAY CARD that leads the charge isn’t it?
That’s brilliant left turn,
Eight-five years later, Gibson and O’Reilly are careful not to name the enemy, but the vile rhetoric and its impact are unchanged.
Actually, O’Reilly openly claims Soros is one of the main people behind a “very secret plan” to “diminish Christian philosophy in the U.S.A.”
Evidently, George Soros (Jew!) is the money man. Jon Stewart (Jew!) is the funny man. And Sam Seder (Jew!) is the… other thing that rhymes.
http://atrios.blogspot.com/200.....2660842399
Since so much of the Christian holiday of Christmas is rooted in the pagan traditions and celebrations of Northern and Western Europe, I think the “war of Christmas” may as well be labeled the “war on Wicca.” So, I think it’s a stretch to consider O’Reilly’s and Gibson’s comments to be Anti-Semitic or even Anti-Muslim. Whether they realize it or now, O’Reilly and Gibson are are acting as cheerleaders for a holiday with some deep pagan roots.
What a crock- anything goes if it defames Conservatives- even if it is an 80 year old quack “conspiracy”. Factually- O’Reilly, and most Conservatives are against the “Secularists” who are trashing Christmas- Get your facts straight, update your propaganda and quit wishing for an anti-Semite Republican. the only anti-Semite is you.
PS: Guess what faith RNC Chair Ken Mehlman subscribes to?
Here’s a pretty disturbing article about another master of bullsh*t – the taxpayers have really lined this guy’s pocket.
ok so I see the mole hill……where’s the moutain again? Yawn….boring…..Merry Christmas. Happy Haunikah
Libertarian,
Ah the Pagan Holiday line.
Do you try and be an asshole or does it just come to you?
Let face it, who does all this bullsjit hurt?
Little kids….
So on christmas morning, your little kids should sit around and listen Randy Rhodes on Air America, then treat themselves to a nice vegan Holiday meal, while boycotting all the commercialism of course.
God you are an asshole.
The sooner we seperate the church from the state the better off we will all be. Did you know that “Christmas” was orginaly a pagan holiday to celebrate the winter solstice? Just another stolen holiday that’s been renamed to fit religious ideals. How many people over how many thousands of years have died because of their religious beliefs? Too many millions to count. Religion has done nothing for mankind but make us kill each other. I opt for a completely religion free world. Why live in the past with your fear of a “God” who is not and has never been there? Do away with all holidays that relate to Christianity, Judeaism, Islam, or any other religious vomit!
Goldy, you are absolutely right.
#’s 1-4, 9 show that, just under the surface, a distilled resentment of “the Jew” is real. Anti-semitism is real. The refrain is always the same, “Everytime we defend Christmas, you people complain.”
It’s an old story, Goldy. I’ve got members of my family who, under the surface, have no respect for Jews, saying they’re too powerful, they’re greedy, or anything else.
One should note that the National Socialists gave the German people an enemy, just as O’Reilly and Gibson give us an enemy, and tell us (the majority) that we are being trepassed against, and that our way of life is being challenged.
The “war on christmas” line is a quiet attack, meant to insinuate that Jews are, yet again, the cause of our problems. My relatives in Germany believed it once, and it could be believed here, again.
Merry Christmas. Happy Haunikah
We don’t need more separation of church and state, we need a healthier church, and a state with some backbone.
Goldy,
I am a catholic. The last think I worry about is jews.
I do worry about guys like you that drop inflammatory postings designed to incite arguments and hate.
This has no basis in fact. Any argument about christmas that the right has is based against secularists.
Religious Vomit @ 12:
Wonderful ideas in theory, but I don’t see them working out so well in the real world. This religous stuff is so very deeply ingrained in us all that it would be impossible to have a world where religion totally didn’t matter.
Just take a look at Britain and Ireland. If the Irish were smart, they’d throw off the yoke of Catholicism. I believe they are so adamantly Catholic because the British are Protestant (mostly). All Catholicism has done has helped insure a continuos line of impoverished Irish Catholics.
If Britian were smart, they’d realize the people who migrated from Scotland and England during Cromwell’s time have become Irish by default. It’s time for the Brits to leave Ireland and re-unite the six counties of Northern Ireland with the rest of that land. But none of this won’t happen because of the power of religion. The Protestants in the North are just as zany and crazy as the Catholics in the rest of Ireland. Wishing for all of this to simply “go away” isn’t gonna make it happen. Good sentiments, though.
Comment by John425— 12/12/05 @ 4:02 pm
You beat me to it. Of course if Goldy had actually listened to O’Reilly’s radio show or actually watched O’Reilly’s television show, he’d know this.
Quite frankly this idea that there is a “War on Christmas” is ridiculous. I think the real issue is the assualt on Christmas by commercialism. Do we really need to start Christmas shopping Nov. 1st?
The State would have a stronger backbone without the clouding delirium of religious propaganda.
Of course Libertarian. Even Communism works in theory. I’m just saying it would be nice. Never happen, but it would be nice. I will continue to live my life without the pitfalls of religion and try to share my ideas with others who are just as fed up with hypocrisy and hate.
Goldy—
I knew it was too good to be true!!! You could only post one thread without being a Holocaust Victim and now you are back to it!!
David CLOWNstein—
He survived the Holocaust in Philadelphia!!
Give the Victim stuff a rest Goldy…..no, better yet keep right on with your chronic victimization. It is the only tool the LEFTIST PINHEADED CLOWNS have at their disposal!!
Besides Goldy, you are a JINO. You do not regularly attend the Synagogue. Are you going to tell your daughter she is 1/2 of a victim???
I can only hope you are merely posting this Bullshit to get a rise out of folks like me thimbleDICK!
This site has to be one of the most depressing around. What did Christmas do to Goldy? He seems to have some deep problems with it all. So now I am an anti-Semite because I think that those who take offense at seeing a decorated tree are delusional? Some of my best friends are Jewish, and a lot of them put up a tree! So what are they? Self-hating?
Get over it already! I enjoy seeing the signs of the holidays – be they tress, menorahs, dreidls, Kwanzaa cards. If Christmas is strictly a religious holiday, why does the govt shut down on that day? The day has become very much a secular holiday that the other-religious and non-religious can interpret any way they want, or just ignore it.
Seriously, this type of post reflects a need to demonize those who are different from you. It is really quite sad that you cannot enjoy diversity in others, and that those who hold beliefs that aren’t yours are somehow evil. Gibson and O’reilly have a commercial interest in stirring up the topic. What is your excuse?
A funny thing about the supposed “Jewish Conspiracy”. Part of the origins of this can be found in A Peace to End All Peace (get it here: http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-0805068848-0)
In the early 1900s, the Zionist[*] movement was just starting to organize. They badly needed friends and political support. One of the early Zionists (whose name escapes me now), approached Mark Sykes (a prominent member of the British government at the time) and fed him this phenomenal line of hooey about how the Zionists had secret connections in Russia, and British support for the Zionist cause would help curry favor with Russia. The end result of this was the Balfour Declaration of 1917, which threw British support behind the Zionist movement.
It was complete balderdash. There were no secret networks. At that stage in the game, most Jews were indifferent to the Zionist movement.
The people who continue to perpetuate these stories about the behind the scenes control of the entire world by the Jewish conspiracy are like the ones who continue to pass around chain letters wishing for poor Craig Shergold to get well.
[*] Note that when I say “Zionist” here, I refer to the original political movement that sought a Jewish homeland. This has no connection with the ZOG, or various other wingnut conspiracy theories that float around the Intarwebs.
Janet S: Well said.
And Goldy: A merry Christmas to you. May the peace of the season fill your heart and may the spirit of Christmas give you the peace and understanding you long for.
janet s…very well said.
it is so sad that goldy has such a negative view of a really wonderful time of year.fortunately for me…where i now live turns into christmas town at the first of december…including carolers, hay wagon rides, the largest living christmas tree in the nation, and horse carriages with sleigh bells.
doesn’t sound real does it? but it is…..
i truly wish goldy could experience it. it might take away some of the sadness that he obviously feels at this time of year.and he is not alone in the sadness part. alot of people have the same problem.but the cure is not, as goldy and some others might think, to banish all the sights and sounds of christmas.
the cure is to become part of it, immerse yourself in it, and just let yourself enjoy it……
and then do what we should all do more of the time. do something really nice for someone else when you aren’t going to get anything from it.secretly pay someone’s electric bill that is having a hard time. something like that if you can.but it doesn’t have to be something big like that….just whatever you can do.
i’m going to buy goldy a beer……..
you might be surprised goldy…all snarkiness aside……..
you might like christmas if you just let yourself enjoy it instead of making a federal case out of it.
hoooowhee, jsa, got some of your history mixedup there. The british post WWI were mostly against a Jewish homeland in Palestine, as the world runs on oil and the arabs had the oil and the arabs didn’t want a jewish homeland in Palestine. Sticky political situation for the worlds greatest navy which was converting from coal to petroleum, and had virtually no other copius source of oil. Check out the period between the wars (especially closer to WWII) and you’ll see the British were severely limiting emmigration to Palestine by Jews, even though the British knew about the persecution of Jews in the Third Reich.
Yes, and happy winter time to all. May Santa bring you all the great things on your list…. oh yeah, may baby jesus give you some salvation and an orange in your stocking.
@1 Prr, you are absolutely right. I’ve been spending a little time here checking out the blog. This is just inflammatory shit, nothing more. I’ll leave them to their echo chamber.
How disappointing.
Merry Christmas loonies,
Try to lighten up a bit.
Wingnut kiddies, if Goldy’s posts are so silly and inconsequential to you, why don’t you go play somewhere else?
Gibson and O’reilly have a commercial interest in stirring up the topic.
Ya think? Culture war profiteers! Buy it up wingers!
and goldy…….MERRY CHRISTMAS to you…and HAPPY CHANUKAH too…
lighten up…don’t make me make a special visit to your house with chains-a-rattling….. ;)
the christmasghost
Christmasghost, you’re really missing the point, here. Atheist ACLU-members like myself actually love Christmas. Hell, my wife and I put a plastic tree together this weekend and shopped for gifts for family members. The point that Goldy is making, that flew way over your head, is that complaining about the War on Christmas, has, in the past as well as today, been based upon imaginary threats. There is no nationwide movement to get rid of Christmas. Never has. Never will. If there was, someone like me would be fighting it. Instead, I’ll be sitting around a tree on December 25th opening presents just like all the rest of you.
Where I dissent from Goldy here is that Bill O’Reilly is not motivated by a hatred or fear of Jews, as Henry Ford was. He’s just trying to get people to watch his show, and to get people to go further in debt so that he can proudly announce that it was a record shopping year.
People like me are not fighting the war on Christmas. Bill O’Reilly is. And when someone like me is actually celebrating Christmas, it’s the real Christians who’ve lost the War on Christmas.
It is sad that the best thing O’Reilly can do to try to make his followers forget his love of loofa is to come up with a false war on Christmas. O’Reilly has become such a coward of late, avoiding his critics (cf. MediaMatters.com), mis-reporting old items to try to gin up a story (cf. Jon Stewart and his Osama’s Homobortion Pot ‘n Commie Jizzporium), and making up a war on Christmas just because his ratings are flagging.
How the fuck do any of you read this post as being anti-Christmas? I celebrate Christmas with my half-Jewish daughter and her mother’s whole-Irish family (and some of their half-Jewish children.) At eight-years-old and sixty pounds I still strain to pick her up over my head so she can put the star on top of her tree.
What I object to is this bogus, disingenuous “war on Christmas” load of crap that cannot help but dredge up anti-Semitic resentment. And the fact that so many of you chose to read my war on the war on the war on Christmas as being part of a war on Christmas, shows you just how close to the surface the anti-Semitism really is.
There is no war on Christmas. And you not what…? This is not a Christian nation. Deal with it.
Goldy, as a Jew, I’m not so sure I completely buy the direction you’re going in here. Seems to me that the whole idea of the “war on christmas” is a simple bait and switch. Every one sees the war in Iraq going poorly, several Republicans in ethical dilemmas, BUT WAIT, look over here at this WAR ON CHRISTMAS!! This is where those nasty left-wingers are going to get you, by taking Christmas away from the 90% of the American population that celebrates it!!!
Now, I agree that if prodded to name the “members” of the vast left-wing conspiracy out to kill Christmas, most Americans if answering honestly would probably mention Jews. But that’s FAR LESS anti-semitic than Ford’s ramblings, the John Birch Society, or the Nazis.
I’m far more concerned about this Italian soccer star that gives a Nazi salute to the fans everytime he leaves the field than I am of this “war on Christmas” bupkiss.
Goldy, I definitely do agree with you that regardless of O’Reilly’s intent, crap like this does inevitably dredge up anti-semitism.
Goldy, you are correct in your analysis. This politicization of Christianity goes far beyond the seasonal silliness revolving around Christmas. Any thinking person knows that Christianity is being politicized and marketed, not as a religion or a belief system, but politicized and marketed as a culture, and as a race. It is being used to differentiate, divide, and isolate. It is being used to excuse anti-semitism, racism, and it is being used to disrespect and isolate other religions, other races, other cultures. It couldn’t be more unChristian. Christianity is being used as a basis for patriotism, for war mongering, for hate fomenting. All for cynical, political reasons. All of this is absolutely repugnant to anyone sincere in their Christian beliefs. But their is no doubt it is going on. Those who have taken greatest offense to your post on this know full well that you are absolutely correct in your analysis
I am a Christian. I am absolutely offended by the self-proclaimed Christians who politicize Christianity and manipulate Christians, or anyone, to gain political or monetary ends.
Thank you for the post – it all needed to be said.
Fuck Christmas, and it’s crippled bitch (with apologies to Ice-T).
I can feel the trolls’ blood pressure rising already….
goldy…….i don’t think there is a “war” on christmas as much as another big PC movement to do away with it.much more insidious than a war…….
did i for a moment think [ever] that this PC thing was driven by jews? hell no. boy…you are sure reaching on this one.
victim-hood here we come….AGAIN.
and thehim……” Atheist ACLU-members like myself actually love Christmas.”
you make my point for me. so if you love christmas and don’t feel threatened by it….why can’t people say merry christmas instead of happy holidays? go ahead…try saying it in washington state …especially at the state capitol.where christmas trees are now “holiday trees” and the sky will soon be green if people say it often enough……
goldy…seriously…are you really saying that you think people celebrating christmas is somehow an anti semitic threat to jews?
come on….are you serious? as i said before…if you want a real threat to jews you need to attend one of the pro palestinian rallies in san francisco where it is so “yesterday” to like jews at all………
now…that is scary indeed.why make up bogeymen/strawmen when you have the real thing right under your nose? maybe because confronting the real thing would mean you would have to call your peeps on the carpet. and gawd knows you aren’t going to do that anytime soon.
I suppose it’s a COINCIDENCE that H A M is the traditional Christmas meal.
THAT’s how tolerant these “traditional” “Christians” are.
Fuck you and your stupid, fake little “war on Christmas”.
I still think it’s too bad the Christ won’t turn you into the cockroach you are.
If only Jewish kids attended public schools, instead of private Jewish schools [see Goldensteinburg’s daughter], they would get a better feeling of “diversity”. [hehe]
From the December 3 broadcast of the nationally syndicated The Radio Factor with Bill O’Reilly:
“You have a predominantly Christian nation. You have a federal holiday based on the philosopher Jesus. And you don’t wanna hear about it? Come on, [caller] — if you are really offended, you gotta go to Israel then.”
rujax…when did ham become the official christmas meal?
sorry to disappoint you but we eat roast beef with yorkshire pudding and all the trimmings……
ham…indeed!
i don’t think there is a “war†on christmas as much as another big PC movement to do away with it
You’re still wrong. There is no big PC movement to do away with Christmas. None. Zero. There’s not a single person anywhere in this country trying to prevent you from celebrating Christmas or demanding that everyone stop saying Merry Christmas. There are people out there who rightfully demand that vehicles of the state do not endorse Christianity, but that is far from being the same thing.
you make my point for me. so if you love christmas and don’t feel threatened by it….why can’t people say merry christmas instead of happy holidays?
They can! Anybody can say Merry Christmas whenever the fuck they want. Christmas is a secular holiday in this country. If someone thinks they can’t, they’re overly paranoid (hmm, wonder why?). As I explained to you in the thread from the other day, the reason that places like Target and Walmart tell their employees to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas is because they want to be inclusive in order to market to the most amount of people. None of this has never been driven by the ACLU, ever. It was driven by retailers hoping that Jews and other non-Christians would spend money in their stores.
go ahead…try saying it in washington state …especially at the state capitol.where christmas trees are now “holiday trees†and the sky will soon be green if people say it often enough……
Are you implying that you can’t say Merry Christmas in the state of Washington? Are you really that crazy? As for the silliness at the Capitol, that, like at the retailers, was done in the name of inclusion, by an administration that felt that it would be more inclusive to call it a holiday tree rather than a Christmas tree. Is it stupid? Sure. Is it a sign that there’s a huge movement in this country to destroy Christmas? No! Politicians do a lot of stupid things in the name of being inclusive, and this is one example. Get over it.
The ACLU, who is blamed for all of this, has never, ever fought on behalf of anyone who has tried to rename a Christmas Tree to Holiday Tree. Ever. Not once. If you want to start making sense here, you need to digest that information, and make sure that you understand it. Because O’Reilly, you, and all the people following him in this phony crusade look like complete idiots.
THANKS GOLDY —- BRILLIANT.
MY FATHER WAS FIRST GENERATIOL SLAV, FROM CROATIA. I HAD TO ENDURE ALL THE OLD STUFF ABOUT JEWS. HE WAS IN MOST WAYS A SOLID PROGRESSIVE, A WOBBLIE FROM EALY YEARS IN THE LOGING CAMPS AND SMELTERS.
BUT, HE DID NOT GIVE US THE OLD EPITATHS, AND STUPID ANTI-JEW RAMBLE HE BROUGHT WITH HIM FROM EUROPE.
LUCKILY, MY MOM WAS ENIGHTENED AND STEERED THE KIDS IN A NEW DIRECTION.
ALL RIGHT WING ATTACKS INVOLVE THE OTHER – GAY, JEW, RACIAL MINORITY. IT IS A BASIS FOR THE HATE THEY CARRY IN THEIR HEARTS ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE.
HISTORY TELLS US THERE WERE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PROTESTORS IN EUROPE, PARIS, LONDON, PROTESTING THE GERMAN ATTACKS ON JEWS EARLY IN THE 1930’S. FEW PEOPLE UNDERSTAND HOW LITTLE THE GLOBAL WORLD REALLY CARED.
ALAS, HITLER AND THE INNER CIRCLE OF THE NAZI ELITE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE DOING.
the sky will soon be green if people say it often enough
Now that you mention it…
I got a concussion in football practice my freshman year in high school. When I sat up, the sky was green and the trees were blue. At that point, I figured something was wrong.
Every day w goldy.
either nazi slurs or anti-semite malarkey
Goldy, do you notice how rightwing hate peddlers, from Henry Ford 84 years ago, to the O’Reillys of today, always trot out emotion-laden “crusades” to whip the masses into a frenzy?
They need to create perceived enemies, otherwise people may realize THEY are the enemy.
9
“the ‘Secularists’ who are trashing Christmas”
You’re referring to the Republican businessmen who have commercialized Christmas and turned it into a shopping event, aren’t you?
Janet S @ 23 sez: “This site has to be one of the most depressing around.”
Roger Rabbit replies: Then you must be one of the most depressed people around, judging from the amount of time you spend on HorsesAss.
39
“Fuck Christmas, and it’s crippled bitch (with apologies to Ice-T). I can feel the trolls’ blood pressure rising already….”
No — observe Christmas, and fuck the trolls!
Any issue will do to keep the discusion off the Oil for Texas Billionaires War.
Did others catch the Federal judge who blocked eviction of Katrina victims until Feb., with a scathing decision about destroying lives at Christmas…….FEMA is a mirror of the Bushie White house mind set. not an abberation.
Another rung in the ladder of victimology. I have never heard anything from the ACLU that indicated their war on Christmas and Christianity has anything to do with being Jewish. It is the communism that needs to squelch all religion from the public square. And we know the ACLU is full of communists and communist wanna-be’s.
another tj@47….see what i mean? it already happened. ;)
I have never heard anything from the ACLU that indicated their war on Christmas and Christianity has anything to do with being Jewish.
And I’ve never heard anything from the ACLU that they’re having a War on Christmas or Christianity. Want to back that up with a link?
It is the communism that needs to squelch all religion from the public square. And we know the ACLU is full of communists and communist wanna-be’s.
Yes, civil libertarians and communists are the same thing!! So are rabbits and hippos! And tomatoes and carrots! And nylon and wool! And your ass and a hole in the ground! And if it’s all a communist plot, then how come George Soros, a man who spend over a decade of his life fighting to bring down the communist Soviet Government, at the forefront of it? That makes so little sense, I thought you were prr for a second.
I’m logging off for the night, so if you have anything this entertainingly stupid to say, or you actually manage to find some paranoid uninformed scrawl about the ACLU to send me, throw an email my way, the address is on my site.
Ohhhh, Mannnn! The hate-mongering racist wingnut KKK-supporting assholes have really soiled the hell out of this thread. I cannot even finish reading it.
Stinky, stinky, stiiiiinnnnky!
Oh sorry…my bad…H A M is the traditional meal at EASTER…and a shot at the Jews for “killing” the Christ.
Let me say this one more time.
I am all for Goldy and the rest of you staking out the anti-Christmas position in politics. It will be a HUGE success!
Oh, and Goldy, I have jewish friends that want to keep Christmas, but I guess that really wouldn’t matter to you.
As a Christian myself, I hold the jewish race in high regard simply because they are and always will be God’s chosen people. And, of course, my Savior was jewish and that may also prejudice my opinion.
And so to all the jewish people I would simply like to say, Merry Christmas!
Hmm, rujax206….Ham the traditional meal at Easter, Christmas ? Where do you live ? Or are you just living in your own little world without any knowledge of what’s going on in the world. Just because some families in the US are eating Ham as their traditional Christmal meal…doesn’t mean the world does. There are all kinds of traditions etc which and HAM or Turkey or whatever is not part of it. But if it fits your world view…sure…its all a right wing conspiracy to eat HAM.
Get a life, open up, look around and talk to your fellow man/woman/child.
Ok, I think I understand Goldy now: It’s in his nature…all he can do is kvetsch :-)…just in his own way.
:-)
@46
“HISTORY TELLS US THERE WERE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PROTESTORS IN EUROPE, PARIS, LONDON, PROTESTING THE GERMAN ATTACKS ON JEWS EARLY IN THE 1930′S. FEW PEOPLE UNDERSTAND HOW LITTLE THE GLOBAL WORLD REALLY CARED.”
They didn’t care because Hitler wasn’t killing them. It’s easy to ignore if it’s in a foreign country somewhere. When they finally realized that Hitler would be coming for their butts soon, they suddenly cared. Many millions could have been saved had the United States and England acted on the information that they had over 10 years earlier. How selfish we are.
@60
I’ve never heard of a traditional meal for Easter. Ham is for New Years with black eyed peas. Scimp on the peas and your whole year will be a disaster!
sgmmac: of course there is is: Maybe not in the US, but many European families have tradional meals …I remember a family always having smoked eel and russian eggs (their form of deviled eggs with mayo and capers…quite good). They claimed it was tradional where they came from (East Europe, Latvia, Estonia).
Tradion is what makes it all worthwhile and great. Like celebrating Christmas for the religious and the family values.
Dingbat Wingbats: Do you forget the greatest Jewish Comedian Jackie Mason, who trained to be a rabbi before he became a comedian? What does he say about Christmas?
Mason: I think these people represent nobody. The people that are against the word “Christmas” don’t represent the Jews in the world. You would have to have a CIA man following Jews around for the next nine years to find one Jew that’s against the words “Merry Christmas.” Doesn’t disturb a Jew. Does it disturb a gentile if a Jew says “Happy Hanukkah”?
But just you look, the gentiles are now a big, big majority. So because they represent 90 percent of the people, all of a sudden you see if you’re a religion but you’re not too well known, you’re a small religion, you can go out and say “Happy Hanukkah,” “Happy Yom Kippur,” everything else. But as soon as you get popular, you’re allowed to have the same religion, but you’re not allowed to mention it.
Somehow, it’s a dirty word to mention Christmas. Christmas is all about love and brotherhood.
O’REILLY: You know, we did a poll…
MASON: I never heard a Jew that’s disturbed by it. Who’s disturbed by it?
O’REILLY: I got a few letters from Jewish people who are. But I agree with you, overwhelmingly Jewish Americans like the season. They enjoy the season.
MASON: They enjoy every part of it.
O’REILLY: But we had a poll this week: 90 percent of Americans, 90 percent celebrate Christmas. But somehow, somebody ha intimidated the CEO’s of Sears and Wal-Mart and a lot of these other places. Who are these people?
MASON: First of all, there’s no constituency for it. If you — I’m telling you that the people who are making these complaints represent nobody but themselves. UCLA (sic) types, anti-religionists, secularists is what you talk about all the time. They’re people who have a guilty conscious about anything they might do that’s dirty or off-color or vulgar or obscene.
Is there something wrong with a country that pornography is so popular and if, God forbid, if you question the rights of — to disseminate porn, right away it’s freedom of speech. You’re allowed to do all the pornography you want. You can’t challenge it; it’s freedom of speech.
Rap singers tell you how to kill people day and right. You’ve been doing it on your show all the time.
O’REILLY: Right.
MASON: You can’t stop a rap singer from telling people to kill every Jew in the world or be gentile or be a short person or be homosexual everybody. You know why? Because it’s freedom of speech.
But if you want to say something good, talk about love and brotherhood by recognizing Christ as the savior and everybody wants to enjoy the merriment, all this is not allowed (ph). The Ku Klux Klan is allowed to march. They go out to holler Ku Klux Klan, but God forbid you had a Christmas tree in front of it. They wouldn’t be allowed. We call the Ku Klux Klan, but if they said “Merry Christmas,” they’d be wiped out.
O’REILLY: But there has — there has to be a power behind this. I think it’s the George Soros crew. You know?
MASON: These are sick people. See, there’s — somehow it’s a popular thing. It’s in now to be — to hate religion. It’s in how to be hip, to be a swinger because they’re living a dirty, filthy, obscene, vulgar life and they’re guilt-ridden about it. So any connection with religion somehow feels like an interference to their lifestyle. So they want to eliminate religion; they shouldn’t feel dirty.
O’REILLY: How do you read the ACLU?
MASON: These ACLU are a bunch of sick people who fight for anything that’s anti-American, anything that’s dirty or vulgar, and they hate anything that’s respectable or decent.
O’REILLY: But they’re supposed to be protecting our rights.
MASON: You know, that the ACLU protected the right at a museum to have dung thrown over Mary, over the mother of Christ?
O’REILLY: Yes. Right.
MASON: Because they protected their right to do it. Not only that, to have it a work of art. And the government should support it and it should be in a museum.
O’REILLY: You’re not an ACLU member then?
MASON: You’re allowed to destroy — you’re allowed to destroy the mother of God, but you can’t mention Christ because that’s dirty.
O’REILLY: I understand. You’re not an ACLU member, huh?
MASON: We live in a sick world.
O’REILLY: We live in a very interesting country. All right, Jackie Mason, onboard.
MASON: I’m so glad you stood up, because this will do a lot for your ratings. Once I show up, it does a lot.
O’REILLY: Yes, I hope so. I hope so. But more important…
MASON: Now you’ll become more popular, once they know Jackie Mason was there. You’re going to make a comfortable living now. You’ve got nothing to worry about.
O’REILLY: All right.
MASON: I was worried about your career.
O’REILLY: I know, and I appreciate the concern. More importantly, you’re with the good guys. Jackie Mason.
Now we’ll wrap things up…
MASON: I’m crazy about you, and I don’t care if I’m the only one.
Goldy leave your small intellectual prison and breathe a little!
Goldy: Did you read what the Jewish Comedian Jackie Mason said regarding Jews and Christmas? His words about people like you are in the filter!
@64
I had a soldier in Germany who was Polish and their traditional meal for Christmas is a Carp!
goldy,
why are repubs the best friends of Israel?
nixon airlifted after yom kippor..
bush1 took on scuds
bush2 we hope takes out iran ukes.
if we are anti-semites..why do that?
With this post Goldy is a horses ass!
@ 68
righton… my oh my
The GOP is so defensive about Israel because it is where the Last Battle is supposed to take place, right before The Rapture, when 160,000 Jews suddenly convert to Christ and the rest burn in a Jewey Hell.
That’s what happends when the government is run by people who take the bible literally, and align their foriegn policy acoordingly
On the one hand you have people who make decisions based on…
science
and others who…
cut open a goat and read the entrails!
I’ll take ‘science’ over ‘goat entrails’ any day (and twice on Sundays)
Sgmmag@62: yes this is a great post. Just look at who was in charge of Britain and the US during those years. A textbook case of monkey no see, monkey no hear, and monkey no do! Isn’t Neville Chamberlain a hero of the moonbat anti-war leftists? Ohhh.. that’s right, the other was FDR, the hero of the rest of the moonbat leftists. Thank goodness for Winston Churchill who gave FDR a backbone. The Prosecution Rests!
belltowner
you mean quaker nixon and jewish kissinger were shilling for robertson
area 51 is looking for you..
I think this is a april fools… or goldy build traffic pos
sweeps as it were…
next…
puddy..
they wont read mason…but nice post
all I can say is that if Ron Sims can feel racially offended at a non racist comparison, they why can’t christians feel threatened by the non war on christmas.
You are pretty selective over who is allowed to feel a perceived threat….
I dont think its a war on christmas personally, I think it is just needless pandering to political correctness.
Belltowner,
I read over at SP that all who lived in your area are multi-millionaires……….
I am dying to know what you meant by …. cut open a goat and read the entrails!
@78
Karl, I agree and said that several days ago on one of the other Christmas posts! The PC police react on one complaint.
70
“The GOP is so defensive about Israel because it is where the Last Battle is supposed to take place, right before The Rapture, when 160,000 Jews suddenly convert to Christ and the rest burn in a Jewey Hell.”
As I recall, it’s 144,000 Christians, and they go up. I can’t wait for the Rapture!!! Can you imagine getting rid of 144,000 wingnuts all at once? whoopee!!!
@74
Wingnut revisionist history = “Winston Churchill who gave FDR a backbone”
76
“I think this is a april fools… or goldy build traffic pos
sweeps as it were…
next…”
Thanks for helping, righton! Your patronage of this blog is sincerely appreciated by the management.
and how many Jewish children have already been harassed by their schoolmates as a result?
Goldy
Hear hear. We can cheer when Jewish kids get bombed in pizzerias but you better not harass them in school!! Hypocrites.
@ 79
“read over at SP that all who lived in your area are multi-millionaires”
Yeah, don’t believe
everythinganything you read at uSP. Belltown has some very wealthy residents in shiny towers, but also regular folks is condos, apartments, and folks just getting by in transitional housing, public (gov’t) housing, and non-profit housing.“I am dying to know what you meant by ‘cut open a goat and read the entrails’! ”
I steal from Bill Maher on that one. “People who read entrails” means people who don’t use reason when making decisions. I’m not anti-religeous, its just God gave us brains for a reason.
The attack on Christmas and Christianity has absolutely no relation to the Jewish religion. Observant Jews who are following their religion have no need or motivation to persecute other religions, just like observant Christians who are following their religions have no need or motivation to persecute others.
Instead, left-wing “secularists” (euphemism for “anti-religious extremist zealots”) are attacking and persecuting decent religions of all sorts, whether it be Judiasm, Catholicism, Protestantism, etc. Some of these “secularists” happened to be people of “Jewish” ancestry who have abandoned the religion of their ancestors. Perhaps these “Jewish” secularists are more outspoken and more obvious, since they hate religion more than others — given the relatively large number of commandments and rules one must follow to observantly practice Judiasm.
In any event, even though the vast majority of “secularists” are not of “Jewish” ancestry, they prefer to have JINO’s as their spokespersons. That way, well-meaning but less informed Christians can be incited against Judiasm, under the belief that anti-Christrian attacks are caused by the Jewish religion. This kills two birds with one stone for the “secularists” — well-meaning Christians are incited to attack Judiasm, while Christianity is debased and degraded when its followers do un-Christian acts towards others and Christianity can be smeared with charges that it is anti-Jewish.
This tactic worked very well for the Nazi party during the early part of the last century. The Nazi party was decidedly secularist and pagan, believing that Christianity was almost as evil as Judiasm, and wanting to restore the folk religion of the Germanic peoples before their conversion to Christianity 1000 years or so before. Their incitement to anti-Semitism was nearly effective in completely obliterating Judiasm in central Europe. At the same time, the Christian religion was debased by all of this evil, and seriously weakened throughout most of continental Europe.
While leftist “secularists” like Goldy certainly have a different modus operandi than rightist “secularists” like the Nazis, their ultimate goals are identical — the repression of all religions, whether they be Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism or something else. And Goldy is trying to actively promote this agenda, by arguing that (1) Christians are really anti-Jewish, and (2) that Jewish people are responsible for the attacks on Christianity.
“The Nazi party was decidedly secularist and pagan”
Uh, what? They were decidedly Christian, Dick.
Goldy isn’t saying Christians are by their very nature anti-Jew, he’s saying that some Christians have portrayed themselves as some oppressed majority, and oppressors the ‘hook nosed internationlist element’, or ‘George Soros’ in todays world
You folks really all need to chill out and have another Egg Nog!
@85
Thanks, I thought there was a new religion out there. I taught and wrote lessons for classes for awhile for the First Sergeants Course in the Army and we had lots of hours on Equal Opportunity. We taught the Army’s policy on religion and there were so many religions. One of them is Santeria and they sacrifice animals, so I thought there was a religious thing with the goats.
@89,
Egg Nog is best when served with vanilla ice cream and bourbon!
I don’t know if I have time for Egg Nogg… I’m manning the ramparts in the “War On Christmas”
The GOP is so defensive about Israel because it is where the Last Battle is supposed to take place, right before The Rapture, when 160,000 Jews suddenly convert to Christ and the rest burn in a Jewey Hell.
Comment by Belltowner— 12/12/05 @ 9:55 pm
Belltowner for someone who never been on a battlefield, nor probability never left this state, you are sure illiterate about the rest of the world. The folks who live in the Middle East got the short end of the stick on life. That is due to many years of wars and never getting a chance to settle their differences. The only way create this change is for other countries to provide help from outside that area. If you have met and have to know any of these folks, you would understand their sorrows and happiness. Then you would have greater understanding of their problems. I have been in and out of that part of the world since 1968, and met many locals who do not share your narrow point of view. They were please get any help so they could live in peace. The wrong answer is bashing people’s religions and those who are risking everything to make other folks life safer. You may dislike President Bush, but I have not heard anything from you nor anybody else that would produce a safe and happy world in that region. Unless you know the people and their religions and help them, deal with their fears there will be no hope for them. Those principle that we live by are the bases for success in that region, and not the exportation of their fears for others personal gains. I have found Arabs, Jews, and Christians in the Middle East have better dialog about theology than you would find here in the Northwest. It is amazing how close one gets to another person when you really understand what he or she believes. Now you can build trust and share everyone success in life. Your Statement above is way off base and does not reflect the truth of why we are there in the Middle East.
Belltowner,
You’re in trouble, because it’s all over the place. You have to ignore the cries of the left and the right that there is or isn’t anything organized going on. The retailers are into the holiday stuff trying to be politically correct, the Christians are having a fit about christmas being too commercialized, other christians are pissed off that the pc police are changing all the names “christmas” to holiday. Silly towns all over America are doing all kinds of crazy stuff, usually without even knowing what the laws are.
So, if you keep your eyes peeled and cover 360 degrees, you may be okay.
@ 94
Yeah, I gotta watch out for all those right wing Christian groups, because this “War on Xmas” is good for fund raising.
Goldy:
You wrote: “At eight-years-old and sixty pounds I still strain to pick her up over my head so she can put the star on top of her tree.”
Clearly this Blog is a fabulous achievement for an 8-year old. You must have been about two when you filed the initiative to declare Tim a H-A.
Yhe premise of your argument: Henry Ford wrote some stuff you find offensive in the 1920’s, therefore anyone who claims that there is a “War on Christmas” is anti-Semitic.
The proof of your argument: Some people disagree with you about the “War on Christmas”, proving that they are anti-Semitic.
Believe it or not, “Christmas” is a Legal Holiday. School Districts that destroy their menus that say Merry Christmas and replace them with menus that say Happy Holidays need to consult the RCW to see what day is designated Holiday. A look at the Sunday supplement ads in your newspaper will reveal a paucity of references to Christmas.
Christmas has religious roots in Christendom and has plagarized a lot of features from northern European winter solstice traditions but has morphed into a totally secular observance. The PC brigade recoils in horror at the word Christmas. The ACLU and the courts seek endlessly to balance shepards and Santas, but a menorah on the courthouse square seems to be immune to the ACLU challenge (factual corrections welcomed).
You have made the choice of victimhood on very tenous and easily rebutted evidence. This is sad, as you have been a serious warrior for many liberal causes, and have often advanced serious arguments in their favor. But now you have resorted to the victim card, and enforced it with a charge of anti-Semitism towards all who may disagree with you for any reason. You have said any disagreemtent with your position is anti-Semitism. So, no one may object to the PC substitution of Holiday or Giving for Christmas without being anti-Semitic?
Wear your Victim status well. The Emporer has no clothes.
You got time for Egg Nog, even though I hat the crap and just drink the Bourbon
@ 93
WRONG! I’ve been to… Boise. And other places.
Also, I’m just kidding around. What I was aiming at was the fanatical Christian right’s FETISH with Israel. Goldy knows more about it that I do. Anywho…
Yeah, if I had the answer to the Middle East’s problems, I won’t be wasting my time on some stupid blog, I’d be getting the Nobel Peace Prize, and loads of accolades and shit. “Bush’s Roadmap To Peace” suits me fine. So does the “Oslo Accords”. and “Narnia Chonicles”
oops, how’d that one get in there…
just ignore that…
Belltowner @ 87
Yes, the German Nazi Party was decidedly secularist and pagan, just like most of the modern neo-Nazi movements which have attempted to imitate it.
The leading philosopher of German Nazism was Alfred Rosenberg, interestingly enough a emigre’ from Russia of German and Jewish origins, who fled to Germany after the Bolshevik takeover.
http://www.intelinet.org/swastika/swasti07.htm
Rosenberg was responsible for disseminating the infamous anti-Semitic Czarist forgery, “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”, throughout the world. He smuggled a copy of the manuscript out of Russia when he fled, and encouraged its translation into German, English and other languages. This blatant hoax was believed by many, and became the foundation for 20th century anti-Semitism.
Here are some quotes from the linked article above, which show the paganist and anti-Christian philosophy at the core of the German Nazi movement:
“Anxious to be in Hitler’s good graces, some Nazi leaders, Rosenberg prominently among them, repudiated Christianity completely. Instead, they wanted to set up a pagan cult of “blood, race, and soil.” They would go back to the dark ritual of dramatic rites of their ancestors.
The New Pagans resurrected Odin, Thor, and the old gods of primitive Teutons before Christ’s time. Instead of the Old Testament they adopted Nordic sagas and fairy tales. They set up a new trinity for worship—bravery , loyalty , and physical force .
They even created a hymn for the new German Faith Movement:
The time of the Cross has gone now,
The Sun-wheel shall arise,
And so, with God, we shall be free at last
And give our people their honor back.
Though Hitler did not openly supported the new paganism, he was not opposed to its ideas. In 1937, he awarded the National Prize, Germany’s version of the Nobel Prize, to Alfred Rosenberg, maximum foe of Christianity and leader of the Neo-Pagans. Rosenberg, the Jew turned into Nazi philosopher, wanted a return to the old Teutonic religion of fire, sword, and swastika.”
Don’t you know, David? If you question rightwing claims that liberals are against Christmas, it proves you’re against Christmas!
I can get the same output from my computer that Janet gets from her brain by opening the case, ripping all the wires out, then plugging them in randomly.
@ 101
holy shit, Dick, do you have Nazi plates and shit in your basement?
Wow, the winger posts on this thread are chock full of lies, errors and false assumptions. Ideologically blinkered thinking has taken its toll. Here are a few recurring themes that are worth calling out:
1. YOU FUCKING JEWS AND LIBERALS MUST HATE CHRISTMAS
Janet S @ 23:
“What did Christmas do to Goldy? He seems to have some deep problems with it all.”
christmasghost @ 40:
“you think people celebrating christmas is somehow an anti semitic threat to jews?”
Richard Pope @ 86:
“left-wing “secularists” (euphemism for “anti-religious extremist zealots”) are attacking and persecuting decent religions of all sorts . . . . leftist “secularists” like Goldy [want] the repression of all religions”
OK, here we go. Where do any of you get the idea that Goldy has a problem with Christmas, or your family’s Christmas celebration? Seriously! Goldy (and not just Goldy) is objecting to people who declare that ‘Jews and liberals are against Christmas.’ So who’s saying that, along with right-wing pundits like Bill O’Reilly? Well, let’s see, Janet S, and Richard Pope, there’s you…
christmasghost @ 40:
“i don’t think there is a “war” on christmas as much as another big PC movement to do away with it.much more insidious than a war…….”
For crying out loud, people.
There’s no war on Christmas.
There’s no ‘PC’ movement to do away with Christmas.
The world has enough problems without you pretending you’re an oppressed minority. Grow the fuck up.
2. IF YOU ONLY OBSERVED/CELEBRATED CHRISTMAS LIKE THE REST OF US, THERE WOULD BE NO PROBLEM
christmasghost @ 26:
“i truly wish goldy could experience it. it might take away some of the sadness that he obviously feels at this time of year.and he is not alone in the sadness part. alot of people have the same problem.but the cure is not, as goldy and some others might think, to banish all the sights and sounds of christmas. the cure is to become part of it, immerse yourself in it, and just let yourself enjoy it……”
Of course the irony here is (as Goldy points out @ 35) that he does celebrate Christmas with his wife (and her family) and his daugher. There’s no basis for even implying Goldy might be hoping “to banish all the sights and sounds of christmas.” Stop spewing that bullshit!
Janet S @ 23:
“If Christmas is strictly a religious holiday, why does the govt shut down on that day? The day has become very much a secular holiday that the other-religious and non-religious can interpret any way they want, or just ignore it.”
LOL. Yeah, Christmas is secular now. Suuuure. It’s a [non]religious holiday everyone can celebrate. (Why don’t Jewish kids put together a nice creche, sing in Handel’s Messiah, perform in the pageant, etc.?) And it’s not like it’s pervasive or anything; if you don’t want to take part, ignoring Christmas is easy. (Just hibernate for a month after Thanksgiving. Or move to Israel.) Look, I understand that Christmas is now completely over-commercialized; but that doesn’t make it secular, or imply an effort to make Christmas secular. Claiming that the government’s capitulation to a religious holiday makes the holiday non-religious (cf. Bill O’Reilly, quoted by Ronsch @ 43: “You have a federal holiday based on the *philosopher* Jesus“) is just stupid and disingenuous.
3. RIGHT-WINGERS HIJACKING CHRISTMAS TO PROJECT THEIR OWN INTOLERANCE ONTO OTHERS
Janet S @ 23:
“Seriously, this type of post reflects a need to demonize those who are different from you. It is really quite sad that you cannot enjoy diversity in others, and that those who hold beliefs that aren?t yours are somehow evil.”
See, this is exactly what Goldy is talking about. Right-wing pundits, preachers and politicians demonizing people who don’t celebrate Christmas, pretending that they have an evil plot to destroy Christmas and castigating anyone who respects religious diversity by referring to the “Holidays” around this time of year instead of bowing down to Christmas alone.
hardovertoport @ 38:
“Christianity is being used as a basis for patriotism, for war mongering, for hate fomenting. All for cynical, political reasons. All of this is absolutely repugnant to anyone sincere in their Christian beliefs.”
When you think about it, just how Christian (in terms of Christian teachings) are these right-wing schmucks behaving? If there’s really a war against Christians, is it really being waged subversively by those who claim to be Christianity’s defenders? Hmm.
4. INVENTING A “WAR ON CHRISTMAS” TO AVOID THE REAL ISSUES
christmasghost @ 40:
“why make up bogeymen/strawmen“?why, indeed…
ko @ 36:
“Seems to me that the whole idea of the “war on christmas” is a simple bait and switch. Every one sees the war in Iraq going poorly, several Republicans in ethical dilemmas, BUT WAIT, look over here at this WAR ON CHRISTMAS!! This is where those nasty left-wingers are going to get you, by taking Christmas away from the 90% of the American population that celebrates it!!!”
Always remember the source. Nice call, ko.
thehim @ 45:
“There’s not a single person anywhere in this country trying to prevent you from celebrating Christmas or demanding that everyone stop saying Merry Christmas. There are people out there who rightfully demand that vehicles of the state do not endorse Christianity, but that is far from being the same thing.”
Those of us who value our religious freedom insist that we (and you) be allowed to worship—including celebrating Christmas, if you like—as we each please, without interference from the government. And that means the government can’t be involved in promoting any set of religious observances [especially if they’re not our own, naturally]. This becomes an issue in schools every December. So what? Demanding a non-coercive public school classroom is not an attack on Christianity on any level. Say “Merry Christmas” until you turn blue; your personal practice of religion is your business. War on Christmas? As if.
TO SUM UP:
Let’s get one thing straight: nearly everyone likes Christmas, even people who don’t celebrate it. We know it’s fun to get into the “Christmas spirit,” add some excitement to the winter air and gather the family together for a festive day. And for some folks it’s actually about the religious aspect. Great! No one begrudges you your holiday. Even people who don’t get excited about Christmas—even those who dread the season, with its overbearing commercialism—aren’t out to take it away from anyone else.
Whether we Jews like Christmas, love it, hate it or just don’t give a fig, we can all agree that we don’t want to be blamed for a non-existent anti-Christmas faction imagined by right-wing pundits. Goldy’s right that the wingers’ baseless “fight the enemies of Christmas” crusade has anti-Semitic overtones. I think Belltowner put it best, @ 14:
So quit spouting that bullshit.
California whacked gang leader Tookie Williams. The warden is to be congratulated for accomplishing what the Bloods couldn’t, but San Quentin could use an executioner who can find a vein.
All the Nazi party attempted to do was replace one religion with another- all religion for the “State.” In a secular Democratic society like the USA, all religions are permitted.
San Quentin Death Row Facts
Death Penalty Reinstated: 1978
Number of Inmates on Death Row: 646
Executions Since 1978: 12
Deaths of Natural Causes Since 1978: 30
Suicides by Death Row Inmates Since 1978: 12
Next Scheduled Execution: January 17, 2006
California plans to execute Clarence Ray Allen on January 17, the day after Allen’s 76th birthday. Allen is in failing health; he suffered a heart attack this summer, and is confined to a wheelchair and nearly blind. Like Tookie Williams, he has spent nearly 25 years on Death Row. In his late forties and early fifties, this man was as nasty as they come.
Allen’s specialty is killing witnesses to his crimes. He was sentenced to life without parole for arranging the strangling murder of a 17-year-old girl who implicated him in a burglary. But being locked up didn’t stop him from killing. From behind bars, he arranged hits on three witnesses against him in the murder trial, including another 17-year-old girl. These murders were carried out by Allen’s son and a released fellow inmate by shooting the victims at point-blank range with a sawed-off shotgun.
Since Allen was already serving life without, unless he is executed, he will effectively go unpunished for these murders. He has outlived nearly all of the victims’ relatives; all of their parents are dead, and today only one sister of a victim still survives. She wants justice done.
Roger Rabbit doesn’t like criminals. There are many reasons why. One reason is Roger Rabbit has a human daughter who had a close encounter with a serial killer — way too close. Fortunately, RR’s daughter escaped with her life but it was a real close call. Roger Rabbit has no use for human predators, and as far as RR is concerned, any state that can catch them is more than welcome to kill them.
http://select.nytimes.com/2005.....istof.html
Bush Meets St. Peter
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Published: December 11, 2005
If a meteorite crashed down on the White House today, the conversation at the Pearly Gates might go something like this.
“Oh-h-h. Where am I? St. Peter?”
“Welcome, Mr. President. I just need to see if you belong here.”
“Well, St. Peter, you know I’m a born-again Christian. I pray every day. I’m very religious. I brought Bible study classes to the White House.”
“That’s terrific. And have you helped any lepers lately?”
“Not exactly. But my cuts in the top tax rates will create wealth that will trickle down and help lepers. I’m getting there indirectly, instead of barging through the eye of a needle.”
“Hmm.”
“And St. Peter, I’ve been upstanding in defending Christian values. We made sure that we call the tree at the White House a Christmas tree, not a holiday tree. And we sent out 1.4 million White House Christmas cards!”
“Wow! But I don’t suppose any Christmas cards went to lepers. Or to prostitutes or beggars.”
“I don’t send cards to Democrats.”
“Mr. President, our checklist doesn’t have anything about sending out Christmas cards, or putting up Christmas trees. It’s more about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and housing the homeless.”
“Well, my administration spent $8,000 for a drapery that was used for years to cover up a breast of a female statue. That was clothing the naked.”
“That was so silly that Lady Godiva went on a ride to protest it. We always get irritated with religious blowhards who proclaim that faith is just a matter of covering up, saying grace, looking dour and denouncing others for being lax – the Taliban approach. This latest culture war over Christmas is a perfect example of religion based on denouncing others instead of loving them.”
“But St. Peter, they’re just trying to put Christ back into Christmas. They see how faith is threatened by people saying ‘Happy Holidays,’ instead of ‘Merry Christmas.’ Fox News has covered ‘Christmas Under Siege,’ and one of its anchors has a new book called ‘The War on Christmas.’ The American Family Association is boycotting Target, and the Catholic League threatened a boycott against Wal-Mart. This hasn’t been my issue, but these are my people, St. Peter. They’re doing this to glorify Christ.”
“Frankly, Mr. President, here in Heaven, I say ‘Merry Christmas,’ but others prefer ‘Happy Holidays.’ Gandhi prefers it. And a Jewish rabbi told me that his family felt more comfortable with that as well. …”
“But St. Peter, that’s one rabbi. …”
“Whose name is Jesus.”
“Oops.”
“Jesus says Christmas shouldn’t be about picking fights and organizing boycotts. All that legalistic nitpicking just reminds him of the Pharisees. Do you really think that if Jesus returns to Earth tomorrow, his priority is going to be organizing a boycott of Target stores? You think he’s going to appear on Fox to say, ‘Worry about genocide and hunger later – first, let’s battle with liberals over what holiday greeting to use’?”
“But St. Peter, I increased aid to Africa hugely. I launched a major program to fight AIDS.”
“Yes, your aid programs have been almost divine. And your administration helped lead the way in fighting sex trafficking. On the other hand, Jesus has a particular thing about genocide, and you and Congressional leaders just cut out $50 million that was supposed to go to stop the slaughter in Darfur.”
“Sorry, but it’s been so hectic this month with 26 Christmas parties at the White House. I’ve just been too busy to deal with genocide.”
“Which Gospel did you say you read each day? Up here, we canceled our Christmas party, and held a vigil for the victims of Darfur.”
“St. Peter, you don’t mean to say – how do I ask this? Jesus isn’t … isn’t a Democrat, is he?”
“No, no. He’s nonpartisan. His gripe isn’t with conservatives or liberals; it’s with blowhards. We’re always cheering the National Association of Evangelicals because it spends its time fighting genocide, battling sex trafficking, struggling for religious freedom. And there are so many others, like Senator Sam Brownback, who win respect from everybody because their humanitarian work shows they are trying to live the Gospels, not play charades. They’re the conservative Christians who make God look great.”
“I guess I was just too busy with Christmas to pay attention to any of this.”
“Up here, we just pray that Christmas could be more than cards, trees and greetings. Jesus is so upset that he’s talking of suing the blowhards to regain control of Christmas.”
Future generation should always remember that Adolph Hitler could not have come into power without the support of Christian believing people.
The following quotes provides some of Hitler’s expressions of his belief in religion, faith, fanaticism, Providence, and even a few of his paraphrasing of the Bible. It by no means represents the totality of Hitler’s concerns. To realize the full context of these quotes, I implore the reader to read Mein Kampf.
The end of this text provides a few quotes from Hitler’s henchmen. This text represents but only a sampling of the full extent of the influence of Christianity upon the Third Reich. These quotes provide a quick source of Hitler’s and the Nazi leaders belief in God.
Lastly, an addendum includes quotes from Protestant leader, Martin Luther. Although Hitler carried out atrocities against the Jews, Martin Luther and generations of following believers set the stage for World War II and the Holocaust.
The purpose of this paper intends to reveal the dangers of belief-systems, and in no way attempts to give endorsement against the Jewish people.
=============================================================
Volume 1, Chapter 1, In the House of My Parents
=============================================================
Their sword will become our plow, and from the tears of war the daily bread of future generations will grow.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Note: “Their sword will become our plow” appears to paraphrase Micah 4:3 about beating swords into ploughshares, but his tears of war more resembles Joel 3:9-10 “Beat your plowshares into swords.”
I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
I thank Heaven that a portion of the memories of those days still remains with me. Woods and meadows were the battlefields on which the ‘conflicts’ which exist everywhere in life were decided.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Only a handful of Germans in the Reich had the slightest conception of the eternal and merciless struggle for the German language, German schools, and a German way of life. Only today, when the same deplorable misery is forced on many millions of Germans from the Reich, who under foreign rule dream of their common fatherland and strive, amid their longing, at least to preserve their holy right to their mother tongue, do wider circles understand what it means to be forced to fight for one’s nationality.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
=============================================================
Volume 1, Chapter 2, Years of Study and Suffering in Vienna
=============================================================
…God have mercy!
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Fate must bring retribution, unless men conciliate Fate while there is still time. How thankful I am today to the Providence which sent me to that school!
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Thus my faith grew that my beautiful dream for the future would become reality after all, even though this might require long years.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
The more the linguistic Babel corroded and disorganized parliament, the closer drew the inevitable hour of the disintegration of this Babylonian Empire, and with it the hour of freedom for my German-Austrian people.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Not until my fourteenth or fifteenth year did I begin to come across the word ‘Jew,’ with any frequency, partly in connection with political discussions…. For the Jew was still characterized for me by nothing but his religion, and therefore, on grounds of human tolerance, I maintained my rejection of religious attacks in this case as in others. Consequently, the tone, particularly that of the Viennese anti-Semitic press, seemed to me unworthy of the cultural tradition of a great nation.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
I was not in agreement with the sharp anti-Semitic tone, but from time to time I read arguments which gave me some food for thought. At all events, these occasions slowly made me acquainted with the man and the movement, which in those days guided Vienna’s destinies: Dr. Karl Lueger and the Christian Social Party.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
(Note: Karl Lueger (1844-1910) belonged as a member of the anti-Semitic Christian Social Party, he became mayor of Vienna and kept his post until his death.) The man and the movement seemed ‘reactionary’ in my eyes. My common sense of justice, however, forced me to change this judgment in proportion as I had occasion to become acquainted with the man and his work; and slowly my fair judgment turned to unconcealed admiration. Today, more than ever, I regard this man as the greatest German mayor of all times.
-Adolf Hitler speaking about Dr. Karl Lueger (Mein Kampf)
How many of my basic principles were upset by this change in my attitude toward the Christian Social movement! My views with regard to anti-Semitism thus succumbed to the passage of time, and this was my greatest transformation of all.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: *by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.*
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
=============================================================
Volume 1, Chapter 3 General Political Considerations Based on My Vienna Period
=============================================================
A man does not die for something which he himself does not believe in.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
The Western democracy of today is the forerunner of Marxism which without it would not be thinkable. It provides this world plague with the culture in which its germs can spread.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Just as a man’s denominational orientation is the result of upbringing, and only the religious need as such slumbers in his soul, the political opinion of the masses represents nothing but the final result of an incredibly tenacious and thorough manipulation of their mind and soul.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
God forbid!
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Sooner will a camel pass through a needle’s eye than a great man be ‘discovered’ by an election.
-Adolf Hitler with his twist on Mark 10:25 (Mein Kampf)
Thank the Lord, Germanic democracy means just this: that any old climber or moral slacker cannot rise by devious paths to govern his national comrades, but that, by the very greatness of the responsibility to be assumed, incompetents and weaklings are frightened of.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
For by employing religious force in the service of its political considerations, the crown aroused a spirit which at that outset it had not considered possible.
-Adolf Hitler on the state of Rome (Mein Kampf)
For when a people is not willing or able to fight for its existence– Providence in its eternal justice has decreed that people’s end.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
the unprecedented rise of the Christian Social Party… was to assume the deepest significance for me as a classical object of study.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Even less could I understand how the Christian Social Party at this same period could achieve such immense power. At that time it had just reached the apogee of its glory.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
But the power which has always started the greatest religious and political avalanches in history rolling has from time to immemorial been the magic of power of the spoken word, and that alone. Particularly the broad masses of the people can be moved only by the power of speech.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
The hard struggle which the Pan-Germans fought with the Catholic Church can be accounted for only by their insufficient understanding of the spiritual nature of the people.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
The root of the whole evil lay, particularly in Schonerer’s opinion, in the fact that the directing body of the Catholic Church was not in Germany, and that for this very reason alone it was hostile to the interests of our nationality.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Protestantism as such is a better defender of the interests of Germanism, in so far as this is grounded in its genesis and later tradition; it fails, however, in the moment when this defense of national interests must take place in a province which is either absent from the general line of its ideological world and traditional development, or is for some reason rejected.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Thus, Protestantism will always stand up for the advancement of all Germans as such, as long as matters of inner purity or national deepening as well as German freedom are involved, since all these things have a firm foundation in its own being; but it combats with the greatest hostility any attempt to rescue the nation from the embrace of its most mortal enemy, since its attitude toward the Jews just happens to be more or less dogmatically established.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
As long as leadership from above was not lacking, the people fulfilled their duty and obligation overwhelmingly. Whether Protestant pastor or Catholic priest, both together and particularly at the first flare, there really existed in both camps but a single holy German Reich, for whose existence and future each man turned to his own heaven.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Verily a man cannot serve two masters. And I consider the foundation or destruction of a religion far greater than the foundation or destruction of a state, let alone a party.
-Adolf Hitler speaking like Jesus in Matthew 6:24 (Mein Kampf)
Heaven will smile on us again.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Political parties has nothing to do with religious problems, as long as these are not alien to the nation, undermining the morals and ethics of the race; just as religion cannot be amalgamated with the scheming of political parties.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
*For the political leader the religious doctrines and institutions of his people must always remain inviolable; or else has no right to be in politics, but should become a reformer, if he has what it takes!*
0 -Adolf Hitler [the original comes in italics] (Mein Kampf)
In nearly all the matters in which the Pan-German movement was wanting, the attitude of the Christian Social Party was correct and well-planned.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
It [Christian Social Party] recognized the value of large-scale propaganda and was a virtuoso in influencing the psychological instincts of the broad masses of its adherents.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
The anti-Semitism of the new movement [Christian Social movement] was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
If Dr. Karl Lueger had lived in Germany, he would have been ranked among the great minds of our people.
-Adolf Hitler speaking about the leader of the Christian Social movement (Mein Kampf)
Volume 1, Chapter 4, Munich
=============================================================
But the people on top made a cult of the ‘ally,’ as if it were the Golden Calf.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
(The Golden calf occurs in Exodus 32:1-4)
Mankind has grown great in eternal struggle, and only in eternal peace does it perish.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
We must, therefore, coolly and objectively adopt the standpoint that it can certainly not be the intention of Heaven to give one people fifty times as much land and soil in this world as another.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
…a man does not die for business, but for ideals.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
=============================================================
Volume 1, Chapter 5, The World War
=============================================================
Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
I had so often sung ‘Deutschland u:ber Alles’ and shouted ‘Heil’ at the top of my lungs, that it seemed to me almost a belated act of grace to be allowed to stand as a witness in the divine court of the eternal judge and proclaim the sincerity of this conviction.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Indeed, nearly all attempts to exterminate a doctrine and its organizational expression, by force without spiritual foundation, are doomed to failure, and not seldom end with the exact opposite of the desired result…
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Only in the steady and constant application of force lies the very first prerequisite for success. This persistence, however, can always and only arise from a definite spiritual conviction. Any violence which does not spring from a firm, spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
=============================================================
Volume 1, Chapter 6, War Propaganda
=============================================================
I soon realized that the correct use of propaganda is a true art which has remained practically unknown to the bourgeois parties. Only the Christian-Social movement, especially in Lueger’s time achieved a certain virtuosity on this instrument, to which it owed many of its success.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Certainly we don’t have to discuss these matters with the Jews, the most modern inventors of this cultural perfume. Their whole existence is an embodied protest against the aesthetics of the Lord’s image.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
want more? It is the wingnuts who revise history knowing that most people don’t read..
———————-
Parallel to the training of the body a struggle against the poisoning of the soul must begin. Our whole public life today is like a hothouse for sexual ideas and simulations. Just look at the bill of fare served up in our movies, vaudeville and theaters, and you will hardly be able to deny that this is not the right kind of food, particularly for the youth…
Theater, art, literature, cinema, press, posters, and window displays must be cleansed of all manifestations of our rotting world and placed in the service of a moral, political, and cultural idea.
-Adolf Hitler sounding like the Moral Majority (Mein Kampf)
———————
“It was a great relief to be in a country where salacious sex literature cannot be sold; where putrid motion pictures and gangster films cannot be shown. The new Germany has burned great masses of corrupting books and magazines along with its bonfires of Jewish and communistic libraries (Quoting Dr Bradbury, a Baptist minister and delegate to the Fifth Baptist World Congress), Watchman-Examiner XXII 37 (September 13, 1934, Report of the Fifth Baptist World Congress).
Ummm.. You dont get out much..do you? There may not be a “liberal war on Christmas” per se. But there is definately a move on to remove any mention of it from the public square, so to speak. Naturally there is resistance to this from Christians and others who are fed up with what they percieve as rediculous hypersensitivity. Where this gets really disturbing is when this backlash is purposely mischarachterized as some nefarious attempt by Christians at forcing their worldview on others. It’s this sort of underhanded smear that makes people like me pause and question the motives of those perpatrating the smear. As well as entertain the possibility that the assertion by Christians that there is some sort of “war on Christmas”, previously dismissed as hyperbole, might, in fact, have some validity to it. Or at the least is driven by an irrational, paranoid hostility/fear towards religious types in general and Christians in particular.
Something else worth pointing out – Though many so called Liberals or progressives claim no religious affiliation or to be beyond the need for such things. They can exhibit the same absolutism and dogmatic adherence to whatever cause they champion as one would expect from a religious fundamentalist.
Proving once again – Nature abhors a vacuum.
MS
Hey Ghouls-
They killed that guy you wanted dead. Happy?
Merry Christmas.
Hail to the Prince of Peace.
Belltowner
You are dead wrong on Hitler, Nazi’s being Christian. party was anti-christian. Though targets of their hate and genocide were hugely the Jews, they also killed priests, pastors who opposed them.
Happy to debate this point of history, but i think you’ll move the debate…
interesting post by Schram:
http://www.komotv.com/stories/40711.htm
SEATTLE – I think it must be the season.
Perhaps inspired by having heard one too many “God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen” type songs on the radio, atheists have found yet another nit to pick.
Earlier this month, American Atheists Incorporated filed a lawsuit to remove steel crosses used to memorialize Utah Highway Patrol officers that’ve died in the line of duty.
Standing about 12 feet high, the crosses have the troopers name engraved on them, along with the insignia of the Utah State Patrol.
There are 14 of these crosses, all of them placed near the spot where the officers lost their lives.
American Atheists Inc. say the crosses are a clear violation of the U.S. constitution, and want them gone.
I can’t help but wonder what’s next.
Maybe stripping crosses, Jewish Stars, Star and Crescent – any and all religious symbols – from graves at Arlington National Cemetery?
How about a lawsuit to prohibit any elected official from saying “God Bless You” when someone sneezes, though I’d be willing to bet that “Goddamn” will be able to stay as an off-color expletive that atheists don’t care about deleting.
Come to think of it, I’m surprised these same atheist nimrods haven’t gone to court objecting to the 25th of December being set aside as a paid national holiday.
All I can say is if they make a run at that, God help them.
This is an important and worthwhile analysis. O’Reilly’s and Gibsons paper tiger “War on Christmas” diatribe is an unprovoked assault on the principles of religious tolerance that helped found this country and make us Americans. You’re right that liberal Americans shouldn’t imagine that this doesn’t matter.
The Nazi’s were/are on the extreme far right of the political scale. Almost all of the followers of Hitler were Christian. The further to the right they got, the less Christian they became. There really isn’t much difference in the extreme far right and the extreme far left. Both extremes are elitist who seek to overthrow democracy and will demolish every single individual right that we Americans currently enjoy. There isn’t any difference in a bible thumper telling me I can’t smoke, because it’s sinful and a Socialist telling me I can’t smoke because it’s unhealthy. Both extreme sides think they know “the way” and they will force their beliefs down your throat until you choke on them. Then you also have the Anarchist, who believe that there should be total chaos and no laws whatsoever.
Check out Roger’s post @ 108. He has a different perspective on the death penalty. It’s out-of-character for him.
Rod,
If there was religious tolerance, there wouldn’t be a War on Christmas. We are intolerant of others, we are disrespectful to others, and we are becoming more divided and more intolerant every day.
Karl,
I like Schram, I read his column all the time. He wrote a column a few weeks ago about the war on christmas. The cross is a world wide symbol for death, there are others, but it is recognized around the world. There are many highways with white crosses on them symbolizing that someone died there. The road from Barstow California to Fort Irwin had 32 crosses on it when I was stationed at Fort Irwin in the early 90’s. It was a fairly new one lane road each way with twists and turns through a mountain pass. The highway leading out of Las Vegas to Kingman Arizona has had white crosses on it for years, again in the spot where someone died in a car accident. The crosses weren’t put up as religious symbols and have nothing to do with religion. The crosses on both of those roads are “reminders” from the DOTs that the road is dangerous.
Rod & Sergeant Major: I don’t think we’ll have world-wide religious tolerance until we all realize that religion is our way of explaining the unexplainable.
Libertarian,
I’ve known that for a long time and I even posted almost those same exact words a few days ago in the other war on christmas thread………
Comment by Goldy— 12/12/05 @ 5:24 pm
“What I object to is this bogus, disingenuous “war on Christmas” load of crap that cannot help but dredge up anti-Semitic resentment. ”
This is the same red herring argument used by many on the left to deride a movie they’d never seen. I thought there was supposed to be a spike in anti-Semitism after “The Passion of the Christ”. I don’t recall that coming to pass. Now you are criticizing radio and TV shows you never watch, predicting the same result.
Isn’t the real danger here crying wolf, so when real anti-Semitism rears it’s ugly head people won’t believe you? Now that would be a tragedy.
sgmmac!118: “If there was religious tolerance, there wouldn’t be a War on Christmas.”
Good point. However, I don’t think there is a war ON Christmas; it’s a war ABOUT Christmas. And, it’s all in who one sees as inolerant, isn’t it? Or, what one sees as a war. There’s a lot of false Christianity going around these days. My experience with GOP “Christian” types is that they find even neutral positions intolerable and if they aren’t the decision maker on how Christmas is to be celebrated they claim discrimination.
Yeah, it even gets down to the food fight – roast beef versus ham. Are you ham or roast beef? Turkey!?
Why are conservatives and republicans the best friends of the nation of Isreal?
It’s because there is a higher percentage of Born-Again Christians represented in their groups.
This is the one thing that perplexes me. Why would an ethnic group embrace a political group or philosophy (the radical left)that secretly despises them (as evidenced by their support for the Palestinians).
I sometimes wonder if there aren’t some Jewish people that inwardly despise themselves because they’re jewish. Maybe Goldy is part of that group, I don’t know.
One thing is for sure, as I type, there is support going to Isreal in the form of money from these same Christians that Goldy is trying to demonize. How many left wing libs can say the same (besides jewish groups)?
Goldy, I challenge you to list them for us to see. If you do not then I can assume that you can’t find any.
I am turkey for Thanksgiving and Christmas and Ham on New Years Day with Black-eyed Peas, and the Black-eyed Peas are Mandatory!
I cheated one year because waited too late to shop and I couldn’t find any, and my daughter had the worst year of her life and of course, I got the blame for not having the Black Eyed Peas (the old custom is that they bring you luck for the year, it’s a ‘country’ thing!
People know about “The International Jew”. But do they know that Henry Ford teamed up with a Jewish woman, Rosa Schwimmer, to try and stop the slaughter of WWI ? Ford was ridiculed for that effort, the media of the day leading the charge. He rented a “Peace Ship” and sailed to Europe as part of the mission. When Ford was selling anti-semitism, the public bought it. When he was selling pacificism, they didn’t. What I take from that is that this is a war-loving, anti-semitic society, and always has beeen.
Man, a lot of anti-Semites read this blog.
To all of the Christians out there. Christmas is the only state supported religious holiday. What about the separation of Church and State.
WTF…
Sounds like a good platform for you to get some attention.
First start by trying to get all government workers to work on Christmas.
Sergeant Major – Don’t forget the collard greens on New Year’s Day. The black-eyed peas and collards are supposed to represent money and good fortune for the new year. At least that’s what it stood for where I grew up.
P.S. – I lke the ham idea, too.
It’s just another way to divide people in preparation for’06. I can’t wait for the “evidence” of WMD in Syria and Iran to surface just in time for ’06. Then a suitcase bomb in a major city after the election and there you have it! The End……..
@129
You didn’t expect the media to give you the truth, the whole truth, did you?
Most of them never have and they never will…………
@134
I do believe that Syria has WMD and that Iran is working on a nuke. That said, I also believe that Israel will “protect” itself and I do support that too. There is a point where diplomacy ends and enforcement begins. The President of Iran is taking the same macho sadistic attitude that Sadaam Hussein took……. The question is how long and how much patience does Israel have with Islamic zeolots whose sole mission is to destroy Israel and blow their country off of the world map.
goldy, if you are going to dig into the past for garbage…
How about top anti-Semite, Joe Kennedy.
Or would that messup your “liberal orthodoxy”?
Libertarian,
No wonder I dont’ have money, I have never had collards, I might have to try them this year! Then I will buy lots of lotto tickets!
Oh please Goldy, get over yourself. I usually vote right, and I don’t feel like the way you stated above. Don’t paint us all with that brush; that is naive and arrogant. Not everyone that is “right” is overly religous and Christian. What the hell?!?!? On another note about “Tookie”: Good riddance.
What is the one thing that Jews and Christians have in common?
They are both being persecuted by islamo-fascists.
Islamists call for elimination of Christians.
Pakistani Muslims also want to see man charged with blasphemy hanged
Posted: December 13, 2005; 1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Jeremy Reynalds
© 2005 Assist News Service
Militant Islamists in Pakistan have called for the elimination of Christians and the public hanging of a Christian accused of blasphemy.
According to a news release from human rights organization Christian Solidarity Worldwide, or CSW, about 3,000 Muslims gathered for Friday prayers at the Jamia Mosque in Sangla Hill on Dec. 2. It was at that location three weeks earlier that three churches, a school, a convent and Christian homes were attacked in Pakistan’s worst outbreak of anti-Christian violence since 2002.
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/.....E_ID=47871
A view from Houston:
http://slackerswithadvanceddeg.....at-al.html
This explains why I am moving to Seattle in two weeks.
Pudster sez:
Goldy: Did you read what the Jewish Comedian Jackie Mason said regarding Jews and Christmas? His words about people like you are in the filter!
Comment by Puddybud— 12/12/05 @ 9:45 pm”
Jackie Mason speaks for many, many Jews in America.
David CLOWNstein is obviously a charter member of
The Order of PERPETUALLY OFFENDED JINO’S!!!
Membership requires a huge chip on your shoulder and the ability to portray yourself as a Holocaust Victim when you grew up privileged and living in Philadelphia!!! You may also not regularly attend a Synogogue!!
Goldy appears to be be a New Age Progressive Perpetually Offended JINO. He has way overplayed his Holocaust Victim card and folks like Jackie Mason think Goldy is a mentally imbalanced CLOWN out for attention….
Houston needs you more than Seattle does!
antidote sez:
“Man, a lot of anti-Semites read this blog.
Comment by antidote— 12/13/05 @ 8:52 am”
If you mean that disagreeing with Goldy and calling Goldy a CLOWN is anti-semite….I’M GUILTY AS CHARGED!! And proud of it.
People who abuse their ancestors by acting Perpetually Offended while leading privileged lives are not what their ancestors had hoped for! LEFTIST CLOWNS enjoy tiptoeing around anyone who can stake a claim to being an offended minority. They expect everyone else to tiptoe too. Ain’t gonna happen. Bullshit is bullshit….no matter what your race, color or creed!
Hardovertoport@126 said:”However, I don’t think there is a war ON Christmas; it’s a war ABOUT Christmas.”
I slightly disagree with you. For centuries we celebrated Christmas and no one, repeat no one, worried about crosses, nativity scenes, Christmas carols in schools, etc. until the ACLU started with these frivilous lawsuits against schools, city councils, county councils, etc. Why is that? Why is it Christians have to defend their position? Why doesn’t the ACLU have to defend their position? They want to change society, no those of us on the right!
There is a backlash from the right on this forced liberal agenda, people like Goldy and his jackboot ASSes henchmen will not ever acknowledge it. They think their position is correct eventhough there is no honor in their position. Who made them the arbiter of the status quo? Did they take a poll and ask does Christmas symbols offend people? No, they decided to sue and to have their point of view put forth. They decry the “christianization” of society, while we decry the secularization of society by the ACLU and the loony left. Jackie Mason thinks these people are a menace to society. I think when the ACLU runs out of these symbols, next they will attack the money!
Jaybo@140: What do islamofascists and the ACLU have in common? Just about the same thing except at this time the ACLU doesn’t advocate the extermination of Christians. But they will sue them until they have no assets left.
Mike @ 114 has been drinking the Kool-Aid:
“There may not be a “liberal war on Christmas” per se. But there is definately a move on to remove any mention of it from the public square, so to speak.”
Oh, look, the right-wingers are resorting to vagueness so they can still claim Christmas is somehow under attack. It ain’t. Go out into “the public square, so to speak” and holler about how wonderful Christmas is all you want. Go ahead, we’ll wait.
“Naturally there is resistance to this from Christians and others who are fed up with what they percieve as rediculous hypersensitivity.”
The problem being that these ridiculously hypersensitive people who are out to destroy Christmas are largely a figment of your fervent right-wing imagination. You are tilting at windmills. And stirring up anti-Semitism in the process.
“this backlash is purposely mischarachterized as some nefarious attempt by Christians at forcing their worldview on others.”
First off, this “backlash” is actually the opening salvo, since there is nothing there to actually lash back at. And it does seem like an attempt to force Christmas and Christianity on us and get rid of religious tolerance and pluralism (those d*mn “Happy Holidays”-sayers).
Don’t forget, the people pushing this “war on Christmas” fable are the same ones who want the government to become an instrument of Christian proselytizing. And THAT is what we lovers of religious freedom have a serious issue with.
Goldysteinburgloeb, Were YOU a Holocaust victim? Wow, I thought you were just a POS liberal Democrat “progressive”, but now that I know YOU were a Holocaust victim, I must have been wrong!! [hehe]
David: Goldy is stirring up anti-semitism. Reread what Jackie Mason said!
O’REILLY: But there has — there has to be a power behind this. I think it’s the George Soros crew. You know?
MASON: These are sick people. See, there’s — somehow it’s a popular thing. It’s in now to be — to hate religion. It’s in how to be hip, to be a swinger because they’re living a dirty, filthy, obscene, vulgar life and they’re guilt-ridden about it. So any connection with religion somehow feels like an interference to their lifestyle. So they want to eliminate religion; they shouldn’t feel dirty.
O’REILLY: How do you read the ACLU?
MASON: These ACLU are a bunch of sick people who fight for anything that’s anti-American, anything that’s dirty or vulgar, and they hate anything that’s respectable or decent.
O’REILLY: But they’re supposed to be protecting our rights.
MASON: You know, that the ACLU protected the right at a museum to have dung thrown over Mary, over the mother of Christ?
O’REILLY: Yes. Right.
MASON: Because they protected their right to do it. Not only that, to have it a work of art. And the government should support it and it should be in a museum.
O’REILLY: You’re not an ACLU member then?
MASON: You’re allowed to destroy — you’re allowed to destroy the mother of God, but you can’t mention Christ because that’s dirty.
Please David, what did Jackie Mason mention that is so abhorrent to you. I guess nothing. YOu are supporting the HeadASS here, so you are an ASShead too!
Note the Democrat “leaders” trying to save “Tookie”. Fat Al, Shakedown Jesse, and other “progressives”. Classic fucked up parasite “victim” Democrats!!!
sgmmac @ 122 (re: Karl posting Schram @ 117):
“The cross is a world wide symbol for death”
LOL =)
“There are many highways with white crosses on them symbolizing that someone died there. . . . The crosses weren’t put up as religious symbols and have nothing to do with religion. The crosses on both of those roads are “reminders” from the DOTs that the road is dangerous.”
ROTFL!
Boy, if the cross isn’t a religious symbol—other than a symbol for death—then maybe churches should reconsider the message they’re sending by posting them everywhere. Wow.
Crosses at the sides of roads where people have died are generally not put there by the state DOT, but by the families of the people who died nearby. Of course it’s a religious thing. DOTs usually remove them because they end up being a road hazard themselves, and a distraction to drivers who need to be focused on the road.
Utah’s official police memorial crosses are something of an exception to that general rule (and an interesting legal question [because they’re state-sponsored cross installations rather than personal headstones/grave markers]).
I’m still laughing about the “symbol of death” thing. Tee hee.
Ok-OK- I’ll overlook the anti-Christmas, anti-Semite, anti-Christian crap in this thread if the left will finally tell the REVEREND Jesse Jackson and the REVEREND Al Sharpton to get the fuck out of American politics!!!!!!
Next some MSM moonbat reporter will be complaining about the food on Air Force 2. Oops… they have… http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01201.html
@150:
Funny, I was thinking just that after seeing Jesse Jackson flailing his arms around last night on the news over this “Tookie” issue. What a douche-bag.
So David@149, Jesus Christ died on the cross for all of our sins. It’s a symbol of His death. Since you reject him, I suppose you want to keep your sins? Do I need to remind everyone of who killed Him?
Puddy dont go there, that’s just wrong
Bwaaakkk…George Soros…George Soros…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
Bwaaakkk…George Soros…George Soros…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
Bwaaakkk…George Soros…George Soros…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
Bwaaakkk…Moveon.org…Moveon.org…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
Bwaaakkk…Moveon.org…Moveon.org…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
Bwaaakkk…Moveon.org…Moveon.org…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
Bwaaakkk…ACLU…ACLU…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
Bwaaakkk…ACLU…ACLU…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
Bwaaakkk…ACLU…ACLU…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
Bwaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is the latest in MOONBAT gifting us who think on the right can give our ASSHead friends here ASSes: http://sixmeatbuffet.com/index.php
Puddy @ 148: Jackie Mason didn’t “mention” anything “abhorrent.” But he’s 100% wrong about the ACLU. Mason’s a funny guy—I loved his closing bit up above—but on this issue he’s just not right.
I dont think the ACLU is necessarily anti american.
I think they just have a bad habit of inventing rights that dont exist, and extending them in directions they dont need to go.
Sven, David went there first. All I did was remind him of the eggshell path he is trodding down when we remember those who fell in the line of duty.
Hey “jaybo”-
I read your posts and puke on my shoes.
Some of it gets on my pants.
I’m sending you the dry cleaning bill.
“sven”-
“I think they just have a bad habit of inventing rights that dont exist, and extending them in directions they dont need to go.”
It’s called protectng the BILL of RIGHTS!
The RIGHTS we ALREADY HAVE!
SO THEY DON’T GET TAKEN AWAY!
…dumbshit…
Puddy @ 153: “Do I need to remind everyone of who killed Him?”
Now, I was just going to let that stupid, Jew-hating dig speak for itself. But now you claim I invited the deicide charge: “Sven, David went there first.” And that’s just ridiculous.
“who killed Him?”
You did, Puddybud.
Rujax,
Nice nuanced response.
But the fact remains that a lot of *rights* are no where in the bill of rights, and the present application fo the ones that are is completely off track of the founders intention.
@149, David
I found an article online about the Fort Irwin Road crosses. They are NOT put there by families. They are put there by
“Fort Irwin’s Provost Marshal Traffic Section, Defensive Driving Course Coordinator, and Post Safety Office monitor Fort Irwin Road, and investigate each accident, pounding in a freshly constructed cross individually built to specifications by the Directorate of Logistics. I have also learned that forty crosses currently stand testimony to deaths along not only Fort Irwin Road, but also Old Fort Irwin Road and on Fort Irwin itself. The authorities’ intent in posting these crosses is to memorialize each accident’s victims, and to slow down drivers and wake them up to the hazards of this road in particular, and to driving on all highways in general.”
The above is a quote from a highly religious article written by LTC Thomas Bowen.
The crosses on the Nevada/Arizona highway are not put there by families either. They are all the same or were. I haven’t driven on that road for years, people also used to call the road the “widow maker.” Whether they are the State DOT, the highway patrol or whoever, they are not put there for religious reasons symbolizing that the dead person is a Christian. They are put there to mark the death, and to increase driver awareness.
In Germany, families put up elaborate memorials on the sides of roads where their loved ones have died and furthermore, they maintain them for years. You will NOT see very many unkept cemetaries in Germany either. If you don’t take care of your family member’s graves, someone else will. They even have a special holiday for taking care of their graves.
@149
The American Red Cross uses the cross for? Death and Dying…..
Wrong David, but thanks for playing. Jew hating did it is not. Can’t hate that which you are part of. When ASSHeads uphold Iran, where were you David? The Iranian President said death to Israel. Some ASSHeads supported him. Where were you David to denounce them? First, those Utah police people who died protecting others are to be remembered. What part of that do you HATE, David?
You should acknowledge the Jew Hating Digs from ASSHeads on this blog. You should acknowledge the Israel hating digs from ASSHeads on this blog. You never do, so I say up yours David. You have been called many times on this blog to call out your good friends the ASSHeads for every Jew Hating Dig and you pass. So again I say up yours David! Thanks for playing. You are so disingenuous in your life stances!
The cross is the symbol for life. We Christians look to the cross as a reminder that we who choose Him have the opportunity for Eternal Life! We who choose him have the opportunity to meet our God the Father in 1 Corin 15:35- and 1 Thess. 4:13-. Thanks for playing.
John425: On the audio files: KFI Radio station host John Ziegler asked Jesse Jackson the names of the victims on a couple of occasions and Jesse failed to name them. On the live feed from KPIX, did you see Judge Mathis grab the microphones? Talk about tolerance!
Boy, if the cross isn’t a religious symbol—other than a symbol for death—then maybe churches should reconsider the message they’re sending by posting them everywhere. Wow.
I’ve always liked Bill Hicks’ bit about crosses as symbols of Jesus. Something like, “Do you really think Jesus wants to see a cross when he comes back? Isn’t that like going up to Jackie O wearing a rifle pendant? “Just thinkin’ of John, Jackie. Just thinkin’ of John.””
Another TJ: Why will Jesus keep the holes in His hands and feet? Why did Jesus tell Thomas to feel the hole in His side? Open your Bible and read buddy! John 20:24-29 Verse 27: Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
For those Tookie lovers like Rujax, I ask why don’t you love his victims?
ALBERT OWENS
TSAI-SHAI YANG
YEN-I YANG
YE-CHEN LIN
So “Thou shalt not kill” means nothing to you, puddingbrains.
Oh…”sven”…you were there? You’re 250-300 years old? You’re an un-american facist is what YOU are.
No I can just tell the difference between speech and expression.
Facist….gosh you really got me there.
Dang. Nice to see how tolerant you are.
Can I call you names now too?
Goldy – you claim that “most Christians think of the enemy as … Jews” when talking about a war on Christmas or anything Christian. That is a pretty broad generalization that is probably not true. I am a Christian and it never occured to me to blame ‘the Jews’- either the generic Nation or my Jewish friends and relatives – as the culprit. When railing against mindless hatred and finger-pointing, please don’t stoop to such uninformed levels.
For me personally, I don’t care about the current ‘war on christmas’ fad. It’s widespread practice in the US to make Christmas a holiday of disgusting avarice and consumerism. For the mainstream, it hasn’t been about Jesus in a long time. These fools who blame some person or organization for destroying our nation’s blessed holiday tradition is seeking headlines and ignoring the trutth. Let’s call out these liars and be specific about how they lie, but please don’t drag me and my Jesus-loving brothers into an anti-semetic generalization that simply isn’t true.
@114
Mike, so far as I know, any good citizen can still drop to his knees, clasp his upraised palms, cast his eyes heavenward, and pray in the rotunda of the Alabama Supreme Court building. What the Constitution doesn’t allow is for the chief justice to place a 5-ton Christian icon in the rotunda, and refuse requests from other religious groups to place representations of their religion there. And yes, Mike, there most definitely are folks who want to teach Christianity in our public schools while barring the teaching of other religions or even science.
114 (continued)
Mike, read post #118. Best comment on this entire blog of what the fight’s all about.
122
WSDOT doesn’t allow roadside crosses. The reason is not religious, but safety; WSDOT argues they distract drivers from watching the road and other traffic. I believe some other states have a similar policy.
126
“My experience with GOP “Christian” types is that they find even neutral positions intolerable and if they aren’t the decision maker on how Christmas is to be celebrated they claim discrimination.”
Actually, this is an excellent description of the whole right-wing mindset. Even though they control all 3 branches of our national government, they insist on seeing themselves as a persecuted minority, and never miss an opportunity to promote their victimhood.
Roger,
If the ten commanments were included in a display of not religous artifacts, but legal ones, such as the Magna Carta, the emancipation proclaimation, the Constitution and other documents that concern the concept of law and our history of law, and they existed in an equal place, not the proniment keystone of the display, do you see that as an infringement?
For what its worth, I never understood the fuss over the 10 commandments, nor its specific and isolated connection to christianity. To the protestant, those are not critical documents, as they believe christ set them free from the strictures of the Law of Moses by fullfilling the law.
Now if the churches demanded a copy of john 3:16, I could understand the desire as well as the resulting outrage.
It seems to me that it would be the Jews who hold them in a place of higher importance, as they are a part of the Torah and the Mosaic Law.
Just curious
114 (continued)
“Where this gets really disturbing is when this backlash is purposely mischarachterized as some nefarious attempt by Christians at forcing their worldview on others.”
It should be noted these backlashers aren’t worried about whether other creeds can display their religious symbols in the public square; in fact, they are quite noisy about not wanting them there.
176
“If the ten commanments were included in a display of not religous artifacts, but legal ones, such as the Magna Carta, the emancipation proclaimation, the Constitution and other documents that concern the concept of law and our history of law, and they existed in an equal place, not the proniment keystone of the display, do you see that as an infringement?”
I don’t have any problem with the fact that representations of Moses carrying the Ten Commandments exist in the Supreme Court building in Washington D.C. in the context you mentioned — and neither does SCOTUS. (See http://www.snopes.com/politics.....apital.asp)
RugratASS: I am not going to relink all of the Biblical URLs that speak to a person killing another and the specific punishment from God depending how that death occurred. Why waste pixels on someone like you who doesn’t comprehend Biblical thought. You discount it in your writings here on ASSes. God tells when a life is forfeited fr the life taken by a person. Yes he tells you in the 10 Commandments “Thou shall not kill”. I guess the nuances are lost on you rugratASS.
Thanks Roger. I was really curiosu and not trying to bait you.
I think when people try to place the ten commandments as a matter of morality, there is an issue. When they are displayed as a matter of history though, it changes the context.
Roger,
Yes, other states have that policy. I also am not trying to say that the cross isn’t used for religious purposes. It is. But it also is a well known international symbol for death and dying. A cross marking at a grave doesn’t necessarily mean that the person was a Christian. There are cememtaries in France at Normandy (I think) and Punch Bowl in Hawaii that have white crosses on every grave. The peace demonstrators in Olympia recently put up 2000 white crosses symbolizing the death of every soldier in the Iraq war. The crosses symbolized the soldier, not the soldier’s religion.
Colorado just passed a law that allows the family to pay for a sign and they post it at the sight of the death with the victim’s name and at the end of 6 years (I think) the soldier’s family gets the sign.
Hey Puddybud, Jackie Mason once refused to take the stage for a comedy event because a Palestinian comic was also on the bill. I’m not exactly sure he’s the right person to look to for guidance on tolerance.
Puddy @153,
Who killed Jesus?
We all did; you, me and everyone else…….
Dear Puddybud,
Please try to remember to take your medications before posting. Go off them, and you’re likely to get hostile, defensive and hallucinatory:
First you decide to take the low road of religious animosity:
Does that seem hostile to you?
I see you want to pretend it’s all hunky-dory, that you’re a perfect little Christian angel.
Ah, denial. But there it is, in black and white: you making a mean-sprited dig at my beliefs and throwing in the Jew-hating deicide charge for good measure. Is that how Christianity teaches you to treat other people? I am reminded of a quote from Benjamin Disraeli: “The Jews are a nervous people. Nineteen centuries of Christian love have taken a toll.”
You follow denial with a complete disconnect from reality:
I think you’re wrong (you’ve never heard the term “self-hating”?), but it’s completely moot, because you’re no Jew.
And then you start ranting incoherently, throwing wild, false insinuations and accusations, none of which deserve a response. What’s the appropriate phrase here? Ah, yes, “Thanks for playing.”
But it’s okay, you can retreat to your religious safety zone.
Oh, that’s right, you think that whatever you do, you’re going to Heaven. (Just like the 9/11 terrorists thought about themselves.) What exactly is the cross reminding you? A word to the [not-so-]wise: if you have an opportunity for Eternal Life, don’t squander it.
prriss @ 12
WOW, you better watch yourself! Calling God an asshole is a little going overboard.
David: Glad to see you are awake. You love to go after a rightie whom uses the similar written conversational discussions like those on the left which you now decry from me? All this thread is about the fallacy of Jews being persecuted by Christians. You didn’t see me like some of your leftist friends in writing on ASSes supporting the idiot Iranian President regarding the destuction of Israel. You don’t see me condemn Israel. I am one of those NEO-CONS who likes and supports Israel.
You don’t like Jackie Mason and you claim he is wrong. Well he said you and Goldy are wrong. Maybe he’s RIGHT!
Regarding the 1900 years of Christian love you quote Disraeli. Well lets see. Saul/Paul persecuted the Christians. Peter was beaten in the Temple for proclaiming the name of Jesus. Persecution of Christians went from Nero through Diocletian until Constantine. The Roman Church (Catholic) persecuted your people, not us Protestants. Remember, they persecuted the Protestants too. You need to make the distinction. May I suggest Foxes Book of Martyrs. It should clarify you lack of history understanding.
Regarding my rant about you and your two-facedness, shall I provide through Google links back to ASSes the many times I admonished you for not taking the lefties to the woodshed like you LOVE to do against us? Naah don’t have to. That’s BS David and YOU KNOW IT! Just search on me, you and ASSes! Just because I don’t practice it like you doesn’t mean the heritage is not there.
Me making it to heaven, that’s up to God. Never in any of my postings here on ASSes have I said what you claim above. My religion says the Cross is a symbol of life. Jesus died so all who choose to believe on Him may have life! I believe there is a Book of Life! My religion does not say when you die you go to heaven. It is NOT in the Bible and I challenge any preacher to prove it. The Rapture is Biblically based and I challenge any preacher to prove it. I do not aspire to the Islamofascist position. But they curry your position. It is curious that the Islamofascist web sites quote Howard Dean, John Kerry, Dick Durbin, etc. on their web sites!
Are you the arbiter on what is Jewness? Golly I thought that was Goldy! But at least you attend synogogue!
My friend PuddyBud said @ 189
That is very admirable of you, PuddyBud. But I missed all those “leftist friends in writing on ASSes supporting the idiot Iranian President regarding the destuction of Israel”.
I know you have a photographic memory regarding what is posted on HA, so I am sure you can easily provide some quotes of “leftists supporting the Iranian President regarding the destructionof Israel”.
Don’t dissappoint me, PuddyBud! I would hate to have to call you a liar!
C’mon, PuddyBud! I know you wouldn’d just make shit up and post it for all to see!
Show us some of those “leftist friends in writing on ASSes supporting the idiot Iranian President regarding the destuction of Israel”.
I have faith in you, dude!
PuddyBud, I have a few friends gathered around. We are all placing our trust in your ability to provide evidence of “leftist friends in writing on ASSes supporting the idiot Iranian President regarding the destuction of Israel”.
Don’t let us down, PuddyBud!!!!
I am about to start crying like a Neo-Con looking at the 2006 election returns!
WHAAAAAAAHHHHH PuddyBud is a fraud!!!!!
All my hopes and dreams are dashed!!!!
I guess that PuddyBud is like all the other Neo-Con’s and phony Christians… just another lying scumbag…
Whoa there David,
I dont know who fired the first “salvo”. All I know is every year this irritating issue pops up. And both sides claim the other is to blame. Breaking it down to cause and effect – it seems logical that some secularists thought it best that removing the specific religious referances from the public square would be more in line with the 1st amendment. And in response, a sizeable segment of the Christian population took offense at what they percieve as an attack on their religious expression. Both have a point. Trying to paint this as a right or left issue is stupid. Likewise using generalizations involving fox viewers etc. Thats convenient if you require your issues to be compartmentalized in order to comprehend them. It hardly lends itself to understanding anything.
If not allowing myself to be politically myopic so as to better understand and articulate a position – whether I agree with it or not – makes me a “right winger” in your book. Then color me guilty.
MS
Roger Rabbit
And in trying to deny others the opportunity to express themselves in the public square. Those groups are equally as wrong as those who would deny them, in my opinion.
Your point illustrates one of the ugly realities of contemporary politics. More and more its less about principled opposition. And more about tit for tat obstructionism.
Tragic
MS
Donnageddon: Do your read Mr. Environmental Chemist? Can you process written thought above that which you write? You need to ask David. I told him how to Google on what in an above link. Every time I see a Neo-leftist pinhead use Israel in a rant I call David on it. When Goldy blogged about the middle east and someone wrote about supporting Iran and their hatred for the US, in the same breathe the Iranian President said destroyh Israel. None of the ASSheads called him on it. David always chooses to pass when a lefty says something WRONG, but nit-picks when one of us goes after him! I don’t have anything to prove escpecially to you Mr. DonDon. PErform your own due diligence. You can Google right?
Goldy,
Where’s your anti-IRAN screed? They are a bigger threat to Jews worldwide than the corpse of Henry Ford…
Goldy,
I have to agree with the above post and say that it is ironic that you are trying to make enemies of Christians but remain quiet to the following;
“Iran’s Ahmadinejad says Holocaust a myth
Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:53 AM ET”
It seems to me like you are a jewish person that is ashamed of his ancestry.
It really makes you wonder.
Thank goodness ,though, there are more orthodox jews that are proud of their heritage to counter-balance your suicidal tendencies for the sake of Isreal and jews in general.
I sure have a war on Jews, just drop by auschwitz-birkenau!!!!
A week or so before Christmas, John Gibson appeared on The Tepper Show (Talk Back to the News) on AM 570 WTNT in the Washington, DC area, to discuss his book, “The War on Christmas.” If memory serves, he stated that the primary offenders in the War on Christmas were Christians. In fact, many of the instances cited by his book are from locations with minimal Jewish population. And not that this is determinative, but his son is Jewish.
None of this means that the country is devoid of Jew-Hatred. It certainly is not. But it does mean that one cannot dismiss Gibson’s position simply by asserting that it finds its basis in, or is an example of Jew-Hatred.