So… on each and every one of the 1,944 voter registration challenges, Lori Sotelo declared “under penalty of perjury” that she has “personal knowledge and belief that this person is not qualified to vote, or does not reside at the address given.”
Hmm. And yet, according to WA state GOPolitburo Chair Chris Vance:
Although Sotelo’s name appeared on the challenge affidavits, Vance said, the list of voters to challenge was actually created by volunteers and interns cross-referencing storage unit addresses with voter registration rolls. Sotelo just signed on the dotted line, he said.
But wait… if Sotelo just signed on the dotted line, then she didn’t really have “personal knowledge and belief”, now did she? And if she didn’t really have “personal knowledge and belief”, then didn’t she just perjure herself… 1,944 times?
I’m not an attorney. So I’m just asking.
UPDATE:
The scan of Sotelo’s affidavit was posted to The Stranger’s forum by one of the challenged voters. Credit where credit is due.
She’s toast
You should forward your complaint to Norm Maleng.
The statute requires the complaint to be made “under penalty of perjury” to keep people from make baseless challenges to voters which she has apparently has done.
Otherwise, why not just challenge all of the democrats in the state in the next general election which would cause perhaps 5 percent of them not to appear based on them not willing to show up to the challenge hearing.
The fact is that Ms. Sotelo apparently did not have any “personal knowledge” of the statement she made. Yet she made the statement anyway.
A number of double voters have already been charged I believe by Maleng’s office. However, if Ms. Sotelo made 1944 false statements, she could find herself in alot of trouble.
There is also a civil rights issue here. If the mass filed objections had the effect of disenfranchising blacks, Ms. Sotelo made have committed a number of different offenses under the 1964 Civil Rights Act:
http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/vii.html
Of course, this is a federal statute. Perhaps a complaint from a person illegally challenged should be forwarded to the Western Division of the US Attorney’s office.
Of course, whether they will prosecute the case is another matter altogther. However, if someone does not act, I could see larger mass mailed baseless challenges having some significant impact on election results.
Just choose a district where your opponent is getting most of his or her support and send a challenge to every voter in the district. Perhaps 10 percent will not show up at the contest hearing.
Yeah, lots of people were talking about perjury in yesterday’s diary on this:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....13376/7516
After doing an internet search, it appears the republicans tactics in Washington are nothing new, only new in Washington State:
“It is taking a law that is meant to protect voter integrity and abusing it, trying to intimidate voters from voting,” she said.
Below is an article from an election in Utah:
GOP State House candidate attempts vote suppression through illegal party-based (anti-Democrat) challenges of 1496 voters that turn out to be baseless/false
State law says voter intimidation can result in a class B misdemeanor – and voter intimidation in a federal election could result in a federal crime.
Swensen plans to meet with members of the county District Attorney’s Office on Monday. She has also contacted the U.S. Department of Justice.
http://vote2004.eriposte.com/r.....h.htm#UTAH
Gee, Goldy, it is really nice that Dean Logan and the Ron Sims campaign are gracious enough to instantly furnish copies of public records (such as the Sotelo challenge affidavit) that Republicans like myself have to request through formal public disclosure forms and end up waiting days, weeks, or months to actually receive.
It would be interesting for you to answer the following questions:
1. How did you get the image of the Lori Sotelo challenge affidavit posted above?
2. How did you get the Excel spreadsheet containing 1944 lines (and 1855 unique voter registration numbers) that you posted on 11/04/2005 concerning the Sotelo challenges?
3. How did you get the PDF copy of the 11/04/2005 letter from Sotelo withdrawing 140 of her voter challenges?
Enquiring minds would like to know …
The withdrawal letter won’t matter much. The GOP tactic will have worked and has worked. They are going to be successful in reducing the number of “legal voters” period.
If a percent of 1000 of the later withdrawn voters simply decide not to show up at the hearing or don’t appear at the hearing, it doesn’t really matter when the objection is withdrawn.
Most people are too busy to show up to such a hearing or even vote if they know that they are going to be harassed later. Would you?
That is precisely why the challenge is supposed to be done only when you have “personal knowledge” that the voter is not entitled to vote, to prevent mass voter suppression actions.
Before you sign a statement under penalty of perjury, you better make sure the statement you are signing is actually true, especially when your actions have the effect of keeping someone else from being able to vote.
Pope – maybe one of the challenged voters was so pissed that they scanned the letter and posted it for people to find – oh wait, that’s exactly what happened!
Willis @ 8
That is a fair answer to Question 1. I am waiting to hear Goldy’s answer to Question 2 and Question 3. The Excel spreadsheet of 1944 challenges and withdrawal letter for 140 of the challenges would not have been mailed to the individual challenged voters.
Well, Karl Rove sure must be proud of Vance and the KCGOP!
THEY ARE THE GANG THAT COULDN’T SHOOT STRAIGHT!
Way to FUBAR that play Team!
Clearly Goldy is being fed data from the Sims/Logan campaign that others, like Richard Pope and Stefan Sharkansky, would have been stonewalled on for months.
The Sims/Logan campaign is clearly just that….as Sims winning is the only way Logan keeps his job.
If Sims loses=====================Logan is FIRED!!
If Irons wins———————Logan is FIRED!!!
That’s good enough for me!
Sotelo corrected the error immediately.
Election Day isn’t until Tuesday.
Everyone on the list knows or should know it is merely a challenge and the 140 errors know because the P-I contacted the vast majority of them.
I also love the CLOWNS excuse that they must now go “stand in line for hours” to coreect the error. BULLSHIT!! Even Logan says they can do it with a mere phone call.
It won’t preclude any legitimate voter from voting.
Where is the damage?
I’d love to see the LEFTIST PINHEADED CLOWN who says on Wed. they didn’t vote because of this!!!! Are they living in a cave???
LEFTIST PINHEADS excel at feigning serious injury at the drop of a hat. Fear-mongering, offended pedalling CLOWNS!!
The latest poll shows this KingCo Executive Race within the margin of error. Sims is desperate because the momentum is now turning against him. His Campaign Guy, FatHead,….you know, the guy boning Goldy’s source for his dramatic non-story….knows all about momentum.
The KingCo Circus all comes down to one key word that captures the essence of the LEFTIST PINHEADS:
clown–(n)
*** a rude ill-bred person
***a fool, jester or comedian in a play OR OTHER ENTERTAINMENT (elections are entertainment for these goofballs)
***a grotesquely dressed comedy performer in a circus.
***One who habitually plays the buffoon.
The last definition applies perfectly to the buffoon, David CLOWNstein.
The buffoons in the P-I picture, especially the one who hasn’t voted in 11 years!!! and the other CLOWN who isn’t even on the list!!! is hysterical!!
They are CLOWNS who enjoy acting perpetually offended and being the center of attention. The African-American woman trying to play the race card isn’t even credited with voting for 11 FUCKING YEARS!!! What a great American she is. Kind of like Rosa Parks….with no bus.
I believe the term LEFTIST PINHEAD is certainly appropo….
However, the word that truly captures the essence of their foolishness is CLOWN!!
Keep trying to deflect from Sims horrible record as Exec Goldy.
It ain’t working….the polls show it clearly. Irons will win!
The KingCo Circus all comes down to one key word that captures the essence of the LEFTIST PINHEADS:
clown–(n)
*** a rude ill-bred person
***a fool, jester or comedian in a play OR OTHER ENTERTAINMENT (elections are entertainment for these goofballs)
***a grotesquely dressed comedy performer in a circus.
***One who habitually plays the buffoon.
The last definition applies perfectly to the buffoon, David CLOWNstein.
Geez Mr.(soon to be more)Irrelevant-
You are soooo cranky.
And you’re posting the same inane drivel twice.
Whassa matter…polls lookin’ bad?
gop dirty tricks revelations gettin’ traction out there with the voters?
Your dumb fuck candidate about to explode?
Have to dump MORE dirty developer cash in this thing?
Like I said before…You’re runnin’ out of lipstick and there’s STILL a whole lotta pig!
rujax—
You are the KING CLOWN….oh wiat, I forgot…..that’s Ron Sims!
Goldy’s SHITSQUAD tactics have backfired……..
1) Goldy quotes a post on one of his threads that is allegedly Irons, Sr.???????? That’s gross!
2) Goldy makes a story about an alleged “victim” of Irons who turns out to be living with and likely boning Sims Campaign Manager, Rollin Fatland??? And Fatland is registered to vote at a non-existent address?????????
3) And Goldy quotes a Battle-Ax of a mother who hates her own son because of his politics?????
And so many, many more examples of why David CLOWNstein is merely a pawn of Sims.
Sims Campaign feeds CLOWNstein. CLOWNstein prints it. Sims denies involvement and calls CLOWNstein a piece of shit.
Then the MSM picks up CLOWNstein’s garbage.
Nice cozy little deal…..except it didn’t work.
@11
It doesn’t matter that Soleto withdrew 140 of the errors “immediately” (using a rather loose definition of “immediately). Those 140 errors are still legal documents, and still constitute perjury.
Nothing will happen because are forced to depend on Norm Maleng to take action. This very morning, Norm is peering into his mirror and asking himself “What can I do that will get me a higher office?” Clearly, prosecuting Republicans won’t help him advance his career, so Norm will decide to do nothing.
And what about the written law? In the King County legal system, politics trumps the law every time. In effect, Ms. Sotelo is immune from prosecution in King County, so these voters should just take their lumps and move on.
Dirty developer cash.
Dirty gop tricks.
Rigged voting boxes.
Elections:
When you can’t win ’em,
STEAL ‘EM! It’s the rethuglican way.
(BTW-I loooove your cogent point by point refutation of the allegations against Irons, Jr. Nice spade work, big boy.)
(and you call GOLDY a clown)
(pot…meet kettle)
Hmmm…? 1804/1944 = 92.798%. 140/1944= 7.202. Leftist Pinheads don’t care about the 92.798%, they only care about the 7.202%. Amazing.
If Norm Maleng reacts to this, then he has to react to the other complaints files by Stefan. The law is blind remember Rupert “Truth Teller” Wabbet?
Puddybud…what a dumb analysis from someone who complained about the votes in the Gregoire victory.
At least be consistent.
Goldy, you guys created a great parallel universe.
Elections guys wont enforce election laws. No investigation, no firings. They say citizens have to do the dirty work.
So citizens do the dirty work, and you acccuse them of crimes…
nice system…Ron must love it
Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha.
Ow. I laughed until it hurt.
HA commentators wanting the DA to prosecute election fraud. Heh. Heh. ow.
But wait TT@18, did Goldy received this document from Daily Kos, Amy Richards? Why isn’t Goldy writing about the other much LARGER number? So you are telling me that Goldy has other blog sites carrying the load and he’s is a plagiarist? Golly, David accused me of that but it’s okay and forthright if a lefty does it? You leftist pinheads make us PUKE! Regarding Gregoire dumbass, how many of those 1804 are voters from her “win” dumbass?
Goldy has shown his true colors these past few days.
And TT@18: We did complain about Precinct 1823 where all these Gregoire voters said they lived in what…? do you remember TT@18? Go back and look it up brainiac!
PB…not following the logic…a vote is a vote is a vote…it’s no different. Great piece in the NYT magazine this Sunday…showing the economics of voting suggest not doing so. Everyone says how one vote can make a difference…but the facts suggest that every close election gets settled in the courts…not by individuals voting.
And, on an unrelated topic, the latest poll in Survey USA shows that not one state…not one…has more people thinking our country is going in the right direction than the wrong direction.
Not one ultra red state.
None.
And only two states have the difference less than 10%.
http://surveyusa.com/50State20.....ection.htm
Richard Pope @6,
As always, my reporting efforts and methodology are an open book:
1. One of the challenged voters posted a copy of her letter, which included the affidavit, in the forum on Slog. (I guess I should have referenced that in the post.)
2. The spreadsheet was being passed around to LD’s by the KC Dems, so that local party officials could contact constituents directly to check the accuracy and advise challenged voters what to do. It wasn’t hard to obtain a copy.
3. KCRE had already provided copies of the PDF (which is a public record) to other members of the media when I made my request… so why should they exclude me?
It’s not really a public records request when the communications staff provides readily available documents to the media… it’s called “PR.” However, when Stefan makes lengthy requests for documents that don’t yet exist, it can take time. For example, I made a public records request to the Council for any documents regarding Irons interaction with staff, and was told I wouldn’t get any until after Nov. 8. It’s inconvenient for me, but they actually have to do some work searching for stuff.
But wait… if Sotelo just signed on the dotted line, then she didn’t really have “personal knowledge and belief”, now did she? And if she didn’t really have “personal knowledge and belief”, then didn’t she just perjure herself… 1,944 times?
In this state perjure means nothing. They don’t keep pedodphile behind bars what makes you think they will do anything about perjures.
CRIME WAVE HITS SEATTLE
Perjury crimes are up 194,400% since last month.
@29
Lucky for you, they don’t involuntarily commit mental defectives anymore, either.
@9
If my recollection serves me correctly, the spreadsheet of 1944 challenged voters was posted on Sound Politics.
I assume Stefan got it directly from Chris Vance, as those two seem to work hand in glove.
Mr. Cynical-Irrelevant @11
Apparently Chris Vance reads the same polls I do, and knowing that Irons faces almost certain defeat tomorrow, he tried to throw a Hail Mary pass — but conked a referee on the head.
Although Sotelo’s name appeared on the challenge affidavits, Vance said, the list of voters to challenge was actually created by volunteers and interns cross-referencing storage unit addresses with voter registration rolls. Sotelo just signed on the dotted line, he said.
Does this make Chris Vance a party to the 1944 counts of perjury? Does it make the volunteers & interns liable to charges of suborning perjury, for any sheet they passed to Sotelo? Interesting.
@13
The KCGOP Circus comes down to one word … criminals.
*** person without ethics or morals
*** a liar and perjurer
*** corrupt beyond redemption
*** desperate; will stoop to anything
*** no respect for the rights of others
*** willing to hurt innocent people to get what they want
*** thieves; will steal elections in exchange for money or power
Hey trolls — and especially you, Richard the Anti-Pope — consider this: If Sotelo isn’t prosecuted or sued, or if courts rule she didn’t violate the law or commit torts, then what’s to stop Democrats from doing the same thing to Republican voters? Think we won’t? Answer this: If you do it to our voters, give me one good reason why we shouldn’t do it to your voters.
Roger, you already did it; you washed out my vote w/ the dead person vote, the more votes than voter vote, etc
Comment on 8
According to the filings in Stefan’s PDC lawsuit against KCRE, which Stefan graciously posted on his web site so Roger Rabbit could read them, KCRE provided Stefan over 600,000 documents.
They also provided him a KCRE oom and a full-time KCRE staffer to 6 weeks at taxpayer expense.
That wasn’t good enough for Stefan; he now wants them to give him the taxpayers’ money, too.
A reasonable person wouldn’t expect to get 600,000 documents in 5 days, or expect to get paid by the taxpayers for the time he spends pursuing his public records hobby.
STEFAN VIGIL – DAY 6
So Stefan, if the judge awards you monetary penalties and attorney fees against KCRE, are you going to SHARE the proceeds with the generous donors* who paid for the lawsuit and PAY your attorney, or do you plan to stiff your financial supporters and/or your attorney and keep all the money for yourself?
* Stefan is waging this lawsuit with OPM (other people’s money). Apparently he doesn’t consider it meritorious enough to risk his own money on it.
Hey Stefan, we all know you read HA! You’ve seen my question by now. So how about it — are you going to SHARE any winnings with the people who contributed to your “legal action fund” or keep the money for yourself? Your silence is deafening.
Wabbit @ 32
Sharkansky never posted the Excel spreadsheet of 1944 voters on his website. Instead, Sharkansky read Goldy’s website and decided to check out several of the mailbox places that were masquerading as apartment buildings.
From Sharkansky on Sat 11/05/2005:
“One of the loonie bloggers posted a spreadsheet of the challenged voters and their addresses that was sent to him by King County Elections. (When I want information from King County Elections, I have to hire a lawyer and threaten litigation, but the Ron Sims campaign gets express service, apparently). I took a quick look at the spreadsheet and decided to visit some of their purported residences.”
http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/005279.html
@30
Rabbit, your math is all wrong. It’s just like Kay Bailey Hutchinson said a couple weeks back — perjury is one of those “lesser offenses”, like jaywalking. Each charge counts as a mulligan, essentially — and even intelligent design supporters know that 1944 times zero equals zero…..
…..Whoa! What came over me there? Did I really say that? I guess Rush WAS right…..this cough syrup he advertises really is the strongest available without a prescription…..
To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, “Chris Vance is proof that God loves Washington’s Democrats and wants to keep them happy.”
@35
“Does this make Chris Vance a party to the 1944 counts of perjury?”
Criminally, no, because he didn’t sign the challenges. Civilly, yes, absolutely, because he Sotelo was an employee of the party organization managed by Vance who did this under his direction and control, and because Vance furnished Sotelo with office space, equipment, and staff and volunteers to carry out her tortious conduct.
“Does it make the volunteers & interns liable to charges of suborning perjury, for any sheet they passed to Sotelo?”
No, because the mere fact they gave information to Sotelo, even if they knew what she intended to use it for, does not constitute inducing or persuading her to commit the crime of perjury. They are material witnesses to the commission of her crimes; but their acts of merely researching voter lists and compiling the list of voters Sotelo challenged were not, of themselves, crimes.
“Interesting.”
Sotelo could be in a world of hurt both criminally and civilly. Vance and the party are vulnerable to civil lawsuits, and if Vance ordered or induced Sotelo to sign the challenges, he could be criminally prosecuted for suborning perjury and possibly for civil rights crimes.
Richard @ 42
I stand corrected.
Richard, you must understand I’m careful to not visit Sound Politics very often, and cover my tracks when I do, because I’m sure Stefan would love to get The Bunny’s IP address if he could. That ain’t gonna happen on my watch.
@38
Quit blaming the Republican ghouls who used their dead spouses’ ballots to vote for Rossi twice on me, you fucking liar.
@20
Let’s clarify something. Roger Rabbit and Truth Teller are not the same poster. They do live in the same household and use the same computer. When posting on HA, the computer defaults to the last screen name that was used, and if Truth Teller forgets to change the screen name, TT’s post(s) will inadvertently appear over Roger Rabbit’s name, and vice versa. This happened a couple times within the last few days. However, Roger Rabbit and Truth Teller are NOT the same poster, and are NOT writing each other’s posts. Truth Teller’s comments are strictly his/her own, and Roger Rabbit exercises no editorial supervision or control over them. Roger Rabbit’s comments are strictly my own, and Truth Teller exercises no editorial supervision or control over them.
I’ll leave it to your imagination to figure out how many votes Irons will get at the address where the computer used by Roger Rabbit and Truth Teller is located.
Wabbit @ 45
But what if Stefan does a DNA analysis of the wabbit turds in his garden? You can identify folks (including wabbits) by testing their shit …
Question for you trolls: Since you’re always bitching about government spending and taxes, do you think it’s a good investment of taxpayer money to:
1) Provide Stefan with a room and a full time county employee for 6 weeks while he reviews 600,000 public documents;
2) Pay Stefan’s attorney fees and give him a monetary reward for suing KCRE.
I say “yes” to (1) and “no” to (2).
Let’s reword (2) slightly:
(2) Do you think it’s a good investment of taxpayer money to pay Stefan’s attorney fees and give him a monetary reward for suing KCRE for the purpose of partisan grandstanding.
I say “no.” But if this is something you trolls want to pay taxes for, quit your bellyaching and send your checks to King County Department of Finance.
Reply to 49
DNA testing won’t catch The Bunny, because I can make new rabbits faster than the lab can collect DNA samples from existing rabbits. I can increase the rabbit population by 6% in one night!!! :D :D :D So good luck trying to collect DNA from all the rabbits in Green Lake Park.
Wabbit @ 52
Stefan needs to go to the animal shelter and adopt a couple of experienced outdoor cats.
“This prolific breeding is normally balanced by many deaths caused by predators, road traffic, shooting and trapping. Apart from man, rabbits’ predators include foxes, badgers, stoats, weasels, buzzards and cats.”
http://www.yptenc.org.uk/docs/.....abbit.html
Reps have a way of twisting a law meant to empower people and using it against them . In an article I recently read on Third World Traveler, a really informative site, the author suggested that corporations cannot be legal persons because they are owned by other persons and are therefore in a condition of slavery , which is against the 13th amendment to the constitution. This would be a wonderful issue on which to start collecting signatures, a la Eyman, on a voter initiative forcing corporations in Wa state to either buy up all their own stock or declare themselves to be non-persons who therefore have no 14th amendment rights. This is a real chink in the corporate armour that needs to be exploited. If nothing else, it would put them on the defensive and force them to defend the untenable position that they are “persons.”
I fear that the KC republicans will be looking for scapegoats after their candidates get trounced.
Let me guess…they’ll have lost because of Sims’ and Logan’s incompetence.
Never seems to be about the lack of good candidates they put up…
@54
There aren’t any foxes, badgers, stoats, or buzzards around here, and urban cats are too fat and lazy to pose a threat, but I gotta watch out for weasels.
Fortunately, most of the weasels live in Bellevue and east King County.
@55
In American law, corporations are “legal persons.”
Should we examine the entire issue or just the part where we get to make fun of stupid republicans? How many voters signed a false Declaration? Does this matter or not?
Let’s take a look at the registration form and see just how difficult it is to register properly.
http://www.secstate.wa.gov/ele.....050830.pdf
Line 4 – “Address where you live”
Line 5 – “Address where you get your mail (if different from #4)”
Does everyone understand the difference between the two above, or are you totally confused?
Then we move on to the Voter Declaration
“I declare that the facts on this voter registration form are true”
Then you sign it.
I think we all agree you shouldn’t sign something you know is not true.
Thanks for exposing yourself as the Anti-Capitalist AntiFree Market nutburger you actually are Apache.
What do you suppose would happen to the US/world economy, dumbASS?
One consequence is that you bottom feeders would be cut off from the tit of mommy government.
damn, I was confused
I read dumbASS’s post, and thought he was talking to himself… which made no sense!
Don’t go applyin’ your own name to other, buddy… It confuses people!
Pope @ 54
You missed mans best friend. When I was a kid, the neighbors dog ate one of my other neighbors wabbits. At the time we all lived these studio apartments in Kent. By some strange twist of fate there is a picture of my old home here. http://soundpolitics.com/MailBoxes10605.jpg
Wabbit @ 57
“urban cats are too fat and lazy to pose a threat”
That is why I say Stefan needs to adopt a couple of experienced outdoor cats. If Stefan already owns some cats, they are obviously too fat and lazy to effectively deal with the wabbit infestation. Urban cats tend to be Democats, especially in the Green Lake area of Seattle.
Roger @ 49: “I’ll leave it to your imagination to figure out how many votes Irons will get at the address where the computer used by Roger Rabbit and Truth Teller is located.”
Probably none. However, votes for Sims = (((B x V) + (B x P) + G) x L), where:
V = Legal voters
B = number of Ballots in their name(s)
P = other People in house illegally registered
G = ballots found in neighbor’s Garbage
L = the “Logan enhancement factor” (aka whatever he can get away with)
Don’t go applyin’ your own name to other, buddy… It confuses people! -Comment by windie— 11/7/05 @ 10:11 am
Are there ANY interpreters available?
I can’t make any sense of the garbled, inane and illogical language of the fruitcakes, the fringies and the nutburgers… nor do I care to.
As usual, Goldstein focuses on the messenger instead of the message and the trees instead of the forest. Who cares about Libby Sotelo. I could care less if she withdraws these challenges, goes to jail, etc. What matters is that someone has the guts to point out that listing a malibox rental or storage rental facility as a residence invalidates your vote.
I think a great solution would be for individuals who have personally driven by and photographed the mailbox and storage facilities, or better yet, know the offenders, to submit these challenges again. And hopefully some of these illegal votes are Republicans too. The point is that they are illegal.
We all lose when people abuse their right to vote. But here at the Horses Ass, that’s not an issue because the focus is on the messenger and the trees, the illegal votes are overlooked as an insignificant side effect. For Goldstein this attack on Sotelo is politically expedient, yes, an honest pursuit of justice to assure the overall integrity of voting, hell no.
You’re Wrong @67
“listing a malibox rental or storage rental facility as a residence invalidates your vote”
Legal cite to back up this statement, please.
Man, you right wings nutjobs are especially shrill today. Afraid of what’s gonna happen tomorrow, maybe?
67 (continued)
“We all lose when people abuse their right to vote.”
Screeeeeeech … not so fast, John!
The qualifications for voting are established by Article VI of the state constitution, and are as follows:
“SECTION 1 QUALIFICATIONS OF ELECTORS.
All persons of the age of eighteen years or over who are citizens of the United States and who have lived in the state, county, and precinct thirty days immediately preceding the election at which they offer to vote, except those disqualified by Article VI, Section 3 of this Constitution, shall be entitled to vote at all elections. [AMENDMENT 63, 1974 Senate Joint Resolution No. 143, p 807. Approved November 5, 1974.]”
“SECTION 3 WHO DISQUALIFIED.
All persons convicted of infamous crime unless restored to their civil rights and all persons while they are judicially declared mentally incompetent are excluded from the elective franchise. [AMENDMENT 83, 1988 House Joint Resolution No. 4231, p 1553. Approved November 8, 1988.]”
If a person satisfies the qualifications for voting set forth in Article VI, Section 1, and has not been disqualified for a reason set forth in Article VI, Section 3, he or she is entitled to vote — PERIOD!!!!!!!!
If a person is a qualified voter, how is registering at a post office box, storage facility, or emergency shelter “abusing the right to vote,” dickhead? FURTHERMORE, RCW 29A.08.112 expressly authorizes the use of “nontraditional addresses” for voter registration:
“No person registering to vote, who meets all the qualifications of a registered voter in the state of Washington, shall be disqualified because of a nontraditional address being used as a residence address. Voters using such an address will be registered and assigned to a precinct based on the location provided. Voters without a traditional address will be registered at the county courthouse, city hall, or other public building near the area that the voter considers his or her residence. Registering at a nontraditional address will not disqualify a voter from requesting ongoing absentee voter status if the voter designates a valid mailing address. For the purposes of this section, ‘nontraditional address’ includes shelters, parks, or other identifiable locations that the voter deems to be his or her residence.”
So, fuck you and your armadillo, John. God it pisses me off when you goddam Republicans try to keep American citizens from voting in our own country, yet you hypocritical bastards are willing to sacrifice the lives of other people’s children (never your own!) to establish voting rights for foreigners who don’t necessarily want them and don’t know what to do with them.
Mr x; I’m always nervous before i get robbed;
roger; you gotta be making that stuff up
what’s the mantra of the left now
non-traditional families
non-traditional residences…
will we have non-traditional facts?
non-traditional counting of ballots
non-traditional constitutional provisions…
Back to your post,
You almost got me feeling guilty for disenfranchising 1000 or so bums. Ok, they should vote. But if every guy sleeping in the park can vote (at least once), then add some protections for accurate voters
as it stands you got a blank check
re 61: You’re such a halfwit you should apply for Social Security. Corporations and a free market are anti-thetical. The Hudson’s Bay Co. and the East India Co. were public corporations. The last thing on their mind, as with today’s corporations, is a free market.
righton @ 70: In my experience, folks who put a losing team on the field are often quick to claim they’ve been “robbed” rather than face up to the sad truth.
So, here’s a question for you: Is there some margin of victory regarding Sims vs. Irons where you will be willing to admit that your guy simply lost without having to imagine that it was due to a Democratic conspiracy?
I’d be interested in hearing from you before the election on this.
Personally, I don’t think it’s going to be as close as a few hundred votes. My guess is that Sims wins by at least 5000. Is that enough to be conclusive, in your mind? What would it take to get you to just throw in the towel and admit that your guy lost?
ScottD; Sims wins tomorrow, wins easily. Embedded inside that is sloppy bookkeeping by logan and more than 100 or so illegal or double votes. Wins on his own.
A Sims victory by a healthy margin doesn’t mean theft isn’t also happening. Don’t pull that spin on us, please.
Satisfaction happens once Logan and Sims have an honest, 3rd party evaluation of their system. Shoot, even earring man said it was broken.
re 72: So you feel ownership of property or a certain social standing in the community is a prerequisite for voting? Who has the rights, the person or the property?
Roger @ 70: “establish voting rights for foreigners who don’t necessarily want them and don’t know what to do with them”
Ahhh… I see. So if it doesn’t suit the purposes of the Democratic Party of the US, the right to self-determination isn’t important? You arrogant, ignorant, patronizing prick.
Then again, your Lefty “hive mind” can’t comprehend the idea of independent thought, can it? The downfall of the Democratic Party is the same as the battlefield strategy against the former USSR — shoot the commanders and the followers will scatter.
toot toot!
That’s the sound of my own horn, since I brought up the issue of “personal knowledge” perjury on Friday over at Washblog…here:
Also, Chris Vance is blowing smoke. He may be right that Sotelo didn’t intentionally challenge legal voters. But what she DID do is testify to her personal knowledge that they were illegal. Since Vance has admitted that she didn’t compile the lists but only signed the sheets, he is admitting that she intentionally challenged registrations without personal knowledge.
Apache;
Well since nobody puts purple ink on the hands of voters, maybe having a fixed address ought to be a requirement. Who other than bums or retireees in RVs lacks an address?
Roger @ 70
Logic dictates that a person claiming to actually live inside a 6″ x 6″ x 12″ box is either lying or mentally incompetent.
righton: Where’s the spin? I just asked if there was any margin where you would be willing to just admit that your guy lost and Sims was the legitimate choice of the voters.
The answer: apparently not.
For you, the main problem seems to be, your guy is going to lose, and that just ain’t right.
Here’s a hint for your side: Instead of whining, try coming up with some candidates who can win an election. Then you’ll be able to get all the changes you want.
TJ @ 78
Let’s assume for a minute that Sotelo (who IS a screw-up, at best) was overwhelmed by partisan zeal and blindly signed the forms, thus commiting perjury.
If you believe that should be prosecuted, do you believe that ALL acts that break the law in the name of political zeal should be prosecuted?
scottD ; maybe you didn’t read my answer
Sims will be the legitimate winner against Irons. Nobody knows if Gregoire was the real winner against Rossi. Dept is broken and Sims bears the blame for stonewalling an honest investigation.
righton: Guess I was just focusing on your post @ 71
I’m always nervous before i get robbed
Maybe I just read that wrong, but that doesn’t sound like someone acknowledging a legitimate defeat. My apolgies if I misread you.
mark @ 82
I have no idea what you’re getting at. “Partisan zeal?” What’s that have to do with anything? She knowingly broke the law, about 1,700 times.
Mr Righton said “
I think you are mistaken righton. Everyone in the world knows that CG was elected governor and the election was upheld by the justice system. Maybe you should go back and re-read some news clippings and get a grip on reality.
TJ @ 85
You KNOW she “knowingly broke the law?” What proof do you have of that?
I’d be willing to say all people that break the law for politics should certainly pe prosecuted…
So you’re saying it should be okay to break campaign or voting laws~ ‘Course thats not what you’re saying at all. You just want a chance to jump in with the (totally false) accusations of Logan or Sims breaking the law again… Just a hint, we’ve heard that one already, and its terribly clear that the people breaking the law in this county are the Republicans.
PS (to ProudASS) if you’re too dumb to get what I said, I really can’t help you.
mark @ 87
keep up, will you?
Since Vance has admitted that she didn’t compile the lists but only signed the sheets, he is admitting that she intentionally challenged registrations without personal knowledge.
She testified under oath that she had personal knowledge, knowing she did not. End. Of. Story.
Mark @ 87: How about this for starters? She signed a statement (or statements) saying she had “personal knowledge” that some folks living at 320 Cedar St did not reside at that address.
Now, apparently this info was given to her by other parties and was incorrect. The mistake made by others is something I can understand, but I don’t understand how she could have made that mistake herself if she truly had personal knowledge. And she must have known that she lacked this personal knowledge at the time she signed the statement.
It’s not perjury to be mistaken about the residence status of a particular voter — but claiming to have personal knowledge of that status when you know you don’t, that’s perjury. It’s like testifying at a trial that you personally witnessed something that you really just heard from someone else.
scott, thanks
Chimp patrol; law narrowly written, and yeah we failed given way law is written.
But was it good, honest, moral, ethical? No good records, and stonewalling by Logan. You must know he drives a good share of the populace nuts with his inability to tell us who’s a legit voter, ballot with voter, why the totals don’t match, etc.
Yeah, per the law, we could not prove we won. But if law’s hurdle was proof nobody knew; then we’d at least have rights to a coin toss, if you will.
windie @ 88: “I’d be willing to say all people that break the law for politics should certainly pe prosecuted”
Wow. For once we agree. Just didn’t want this debate to devolve into some discussion of moral relativism. And, BTW, I didn’t have Sims and Logan in mind.
scottd @ 90
I agree that what she did was not only sloppy, but wrong.
But are you saying that everyone who improperly signs the affidavit on a voter registration should be prosecuted, punished and have their vote(s) thrown out? I mean, if the voter can be confused or whatnot…
Also, has anyone compared ALL of the signatures to a reference sample? Do you know how sore you’d be after signing your name 2,000 times?? Yeah, I’m a Republican floating the idea that others may have illegally signed her name to the forms. Wrong is wrong.
TJ @ 89: “Since Vance has admitted that she… only signed the sheets, he is admitting that she intentionally challenged registrations without personal knowledge.”
You’re drawing a conclusion that is for a jury to decide. All you have is Vance’s statement. Neither Vance nor you know what was inside her brain. Damning “testimony,” yes. Proof, no.
“She testified under oath that she had personal knowledge, knowing she did not. End. Of. Story.”
She did? You mean by signing the form? What about the people who signed a similar oath and claimed to live inside a 6″ x 6″ x 12″ box? Maybe she, too, was confused by what she was signing. And, as I stated above, unless she personally states she didn’t know, you have no proof.
The signed affidavit we’ve all seen in the PDF from The Stranger is signed, basically, “L D S”. I wonder whether that’s how dear Lori signed her own voter registration form. Just wonderin’ … I don’t particularly care whether her registration signature looks like that.
But are you saying that everyone who improperly signs the affidavit on a voter registration should be prosecuted, punished and have their vote(s) thrown out?
Don’t be silly. When an individual improperly places his residence address on the mailing address line, or mistakenly believes that a PMB address can serve as a residence — that’s a mistake. Prosecuting that is truly a waste of time.
Repeatedly testifying (or affirming) that you have personal knowledge when you don’t is perjury. Explain to me how one can mistakenly think one has personal knowledge of something that one has only heard from others.
On the other hand, if someone forged her signature, then we are talking about a different crime. Either way, it doesn’t look good for the GOP or some of its minions.
P.S. — Mark, if Ms. Soleto didn’t actually sign those affidavits, she needs to let the county elections people know ASAP, so they can withdraw the challenges.
scott, you’re missing what he’s saying.
He means that some evil Democrat signed her name to the affadavit in order to frame her!
windie @ 97
No I’m not.
@98
I know I know,
Mean joke, I admit :P
scottd @ 95
Silly? An oath is an oath, right? Shouldn’t one take their right to vote seriously? This wouldn’t be an issue if the original registrant had treated the franchise with the respect it deserves. But, then again, this is a country where “do it over” is easier than “do it right the first time.”
As for her repeatedly signing the form, I’m guessing she read it once (and misinterpreted it or got bad legal advice) and then robotically repeated the act. Regardless, anyone that stupid and/or sloppy should resign or be fired.
If someone else signed her name, that is a different (and likely harder to prove) crime. And, yes, that should be prosecuted, too. But any confustion over the actual signer could also be the one thing that saves her — or at least lets her bargain to a fine and probation.
windie @ 97 & 99
Clarification… I didn’t imply it was some evil Democrat. I meant to imply specifically that it was Ron Sims, Roger Rabbit, Goldy and Lucy during their alleged hot tub party & alleged Jell-O wrestling event at Ron’s alleged house. (see other thread for reference) ;)
scottd @ 95: “mistakenly believes that a PMB address can serve as a residence”
Don’t you think that much of this could have been avoided if KingCo staffers had properly done their jobs and caught those addresses in the first place?
Considering the massive amount of time and money they have to spend dealing with challenges and the politics of all of this, wouldn’t it make sense to invest $1,000 into software or outsourced services to flag PMB, box and other non-residential addresses? The process is NOT rocket science. Heck, how about simply running a search for the letter combo “PMB” in the address line?
FilterTest: software
Hmmmm… Damn! More FilterHell issues.
scottd @ 95
Don’t you think KingCo could have avoided much of these problems if they’d proactively flagged the file for improper addresses?
Maybe I am really obtuse but why when asked for the address where the LIVE, would hundreds of people use private mail box company addresses? Why did 93 people use Post Options Business Center, 1122 E Pike, Seattle as their HOME address. Now, I can understand how a few people could make a mistake on their voter registration but 93???????
But we know there is NO ELECTION FRAUD IN mostly DEMOCRAT KING COUNTY. Now let me guess all the people registering at the Post Options Business Center, just 2 blocks from Seattle Central Community College are REPUBLICANS. Now let me guess, all of these people showed valid photo ID when they registered and will show valid photo ID when they vote.
Still think there is no organized voter fraud in King County? Are you interested in a nice bridge connecting Manhattan and Brooklyn? Got one for sale?
and what’s so “Progressive” about wanting to strip our 200+ yr old election system from any “one man-one vote” basis…
mark @ 93
“What about the people who signed a similar oath and claimed to live inside a 6″ x 6″ x 12″ box? Maybe she, too, was confused by what she was signing. And, as I stated above, unless she personally states she didn’t know, you have no proof.”
We have no proof of gravity either, but unless you have some indication that she is contradicting Vance and did indeed personally verify each challenge based on her own knowledge, you are throwing up desperate, useless arguments.
As for “living in a 6x6x12 box,” if there is evidence that registrants did not live at the named address 30 days before their casting of a vote while claiming to live at that address, then I don’t have a problem with their prosecution, either. But obviously one count of falsified information by a single voter, is nowhere near as serious an occurrence as 1,900 counts of the same by a partisan leader designed to interfere with an election. And if she knew she had no knowledge of the allegations she was making, she was knowingly interfering with the election.
You’re not fooling anyone.
jcbob @ 104:
“Still think there is no organized voter fraud in King County?”
How does the actions of 93 disconnected individuals who listed (apparently) their mailing address instead of their home address, constitute organization? Who are you accusing of gathering these people together in order to register improperly?
Torridjoe @ 107
181 voters say they live at private mail box companies within a couple blocks of Seattle Central Community College. You think that is a coincidence? Of course, we all know that SCCC is a hot bed of right-wing politics.
How’s the Kool-Aid?
jc bob @ 108
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that a bunch of college kids put down the PO box where they get mail, instead of a dorm room or apartment that changes every year, no. But that wasn’t the question. The question was what suggests this is organized fraud?
tj@109
wishful thinking…
Torridjoe @ 109
I guess what you are telling me that you think it is prefectly reasonable that on 181 instances people did NOT read the voter registration instructions carefully and instead of giving a plausable home address, they gave the address of a private mail box company within a few blocks of Seattle Central Community College.
Yah, sure! Keep on drinking that Kool-aid.
JC Bob,
Kindly fuck off – inadvertantly putting your mailing address instead of your registration address does not conscious fraud make – at least in the mind of anyone who isn’t a right wing sore losing nutjob.
bob @ 111
yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. What evidence do you have to suggest otherwise, much less your theory that they were organized prior to registering, and persuaded to commit perjury in order to fulfill a goal that you have yet to describe? In other words, why would anyone WANT to have them intentionally do so?
I guess what you are telling me that you think it is prefectly reasonable that on 181 instances people did NOT read the voter registration instructions carefully and instead of giving a plausable home address, they gave the address of a private mail box company within a few blocks of Seattle Central Community College.
What is more likely is that there was a voter registration drive on campus and someone told the students they could use their P.O. box if they were worried their home address would change a lot. Voter registration drives often take place at the beginning of semesters/quarters because that’s when registration deadlines occur, but that’s also the time when students are least settled.
I don’t know that that’s what happened here, but it’s reasonable. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn that nearly every one of them registered a little more than a year ago in the leadup to last year’s election.
But if you’ve got some evidence that these people don’t exist or otherwise would not be legal voters, present it.
JC Bob @ 111
All us liberal posters here at HA are pleased that you’ll be voting no on 912 JC. After all we explained why Georgia’s roads are much better maintained and funded than Washington’s to your satisfaction, did we not?
Keep your word JC.
torrid joe: nobody at a community college lives in a dorm; at least not the capital hill one…
laughing out loud
Next thing you know, the nutburgers will be dressing up like rabid turtles and rioting in Seattle… again