While one needn’t design a transit system to deal with weather conditions that occur once or twice a decade, it’s important to note the failure of our region’s bus system to operate anywhere near full capacity during our week of snow and sub-zero temperatures. Light rail and street cars, on the other hand, they can handle nearly anything our Puget Sound climate can throw at them, as long as trains are run frequently enough to prevent the overhead power lines from icing over.
I don’t point this out as some sort of I told you so, or as a bit of advocacy for even more rail, but rather as an observation about differing attitudes toward transit in cities with rail versus those without. Those of us who grew up in cities with extensive rail systems expect transit to be reliable, because… well… it generally is. In cities like Seattle however, we merely expect transit to be somewhat reliable, conditions permitting. Snow, floods, traffic jams and accidents… that sorta shit happens, and bus commuters learn to deal with it. (Whether your employer is willing to deal with you missing a week or more of work because your bus route was canceled, well, that’s another story.)
I think over time, as more rail comes online, and more commuters grow accustomed to its comfort and reliability, attitudes toward transit in this region will gradually change. No longer looked down upon as mostly an alternative for folks who can’t afford to drive, we will eventually become both more appreciative of our transit system, and more demanding. And that’s a good thing.
Amtrak Cascades: All trains cancelled.
South Lake Union Streetcar: All trains cancelled.
In Portland: MAX update: Frozen switches are causing service disruptions. Shuttle buses being used for portions of MAX route.
Probably would have been cheaper to furnish each Puget Sound resident with private helicopter transportation on snow days.
Routes that are not operating today:
2, 3, 4, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 17, 19, 22, 23, 25, 27, 28, 30, 31, 32, 33, 35, 37, 38, 43, 45, 46, 51, 53, 57, 64, 68, 70, 74, 79, 99, 105, 107, 114, 118 Ex, 119 Ex, 122, 123, 125, 126, 133, 134, 143, 149, 152, 154, 155, 158, 159, 161, 162, 164, 167, 170, 173, 175, 179, 183, 187, 191, 192, 196, 197, 200, 201, 202, 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 210, 211, 213, 216, 217, 219, 220, 225, 229, 237, 242, 243, 244, 247, 249, 250, 256, 257, 260, 261, 265, 266, 268, 272, 277, 303, 304, 306, 308, 316, 330, 355, 373, 540, 555, 556, 564, 912, 921, 925, 929, 981, 982, 984, 986, 987, 988, 989, 994, 995 and South Lake Union Streetcar.
It’d take the restoration of the Counterbalance on Queen Anne to help me out today. And then where would the young snowboard dudes go to party?
Rail transit would help, but I recall snowy days in Boston waiting for a bus because the streetcar (on its seperate right-of-way that needed plowing) didn’t go where I wanted to be. And don’t forget, many East Coast rail systems benefit from being mostly underground.
I’m a big fan of rail, but I doubt you can convince many that this snow makes an argument for it, when buying more snow plows and chains would be a lot cheaper.
The trouble with frozen switches can be solved with heated switches. Systems like those back east who expect regular freezing weather install them. Sounder is still running albeit on a holiday schedule and it ran without problems earlier while buses jackknife and get stuck in the snow. Point is that it took a lot more snow and ice to bring the rail system down.
The Link Light Rail that’s opening next year would likely not be disrupted in this case as the key switch to turn trains around is under Pine St. except for the train yard and the other end of the line.
I want light rail. I do not want the absolute retards that are implementing the current system.
Mass incompetence, cronyism, nepotism, and general fuckwaddery beyond comprehension – Hey, that’s Sound Transit…
@7
Delbert, what do you think of ST’s first light rail line? From downtown to the airport via the Rainier Valley? Do you think that line makes sense? I don’t.
My only complaint about the transit problems is that it is impacting republicans. Since they are supposed to line up for their ass fucking after being utterly obliterated in the Nov 4 election, some of them are late to the party.
Since republicans vote against mass transit because they are racists (stupidly believing only people of color ride the bus) we no longer have to worry about what they think. As republicans, their core beliefs have been rejected. Their racism rejected. Their idiocy rejected.
They need to understand that mass transit has been approved three times in Seattle. The people have spoken. The fools and idiots on the right aren’t relevant. Their thoughts, beliefs and desires are worthless and not at all important.
They lost. They are losers. They can walk in the snow and freeze to death for all I care.
@9
WTF are you talking about? Are you off your meds again?
@8 Gawd, how I hate it when I agree with you.
@8
It was a political calculation to serve the constituencies supporting the members of the Sound Transit board.
Proper planning and engineering had nothing to do with the routing.
@12 Gawd, now I’m agreeing with you, too. I hate this. Please quit posting before I get ill.
I’m for rail, too, but this post is largely bullshit, Goldy. The problem with the Metro buses not getting around in the snow was caused long before you got to this town.
It started in the 1970s when Metro Transit hired a suit named Carle Salley, who imposed those awful, underpowered, intersection- and street-blocking articulated buses on us, just so there could be fewer buses and Metro wouldn’t have to pay out salaries and union benefits to more drivers.
As I remember it, the drivers and mechanics warned Metro that if they went away from manual transmissions, the buses would be gutless on hills, especially in snow conditions.
But this is Seattle, where the fucking suits call the shots. So if your bus can’t go in ice and snow, remember Carle Salley. I rate him right up there in Seattle’s pantheon of heroes with Ted Bundy, Martin Pang, Frank Blethen, and Tim Eyman.
David, you are quite the newsman and fact-checker.
Wow. Spoke to soon I guess since all light rail trains are behind schedule due to frozen switches.
This is everything that is wrong with transportation. No innovation. Ok, so you can’t navigate a hill (valid). How about moving all the non-articulated buses down onto the feeder routes to keep up with demand? People waiting 3-4hrs for a bus because they are all FULL. Stupid freaking planning.
@9…You are an idiot. Lots of Republicans vote for mass transit too. And more would if our govt. could show they actually know what they are doing. But instead they offer up obsolete technologies and politically motivated transportation routes. Light rail? Holy crap. Expensive, inefficient, etc. etc.
I don’t have any problem getting around. I have built-in snowshoes with built-in ice grippers.
Police working the Seahawks game called in backup from West Precinct when frustrated Sounder passengers “formed a mob” and went “absolutely berserk” waiting for their ride.
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.....157639.asp
Hmmm How can Roger Rabbit be sane on this one issue(light rail), but be such a rat bastard insane motherfucker on everything else? It boggles my mind. One of those “mysteries of the universe” no doubt.
@18 – I’d like to know the racial composition of the mob. Inquiring minds need to know.
@20 –
Seahawks fans heading north (towards everett) and south (towards tacoma).
They were white, at least 80% I’m sure.
It’s the beer and the fact they are football fans that which made them rowdy.
I see goat expert stevie has changed his monicker once again.
How cute.
I shot a Youtube video on the Sounder platform. This was for the last train after security and police calmed the mob down (somewhat).
Oh, good, Marvin’s back. I see that after all this time he still suffers from the same affictions as Pudz – goats on the brain and sockpuppets behind every bush. No wonder there, of course. No wonder at all.
@14 ivan: good post
The articulated buses cannot handle the ice or snow. In fact, in this storm a lot of the probmes were due to busses (note the lack of guard rails over I-5 , for instance). Of course, the inherent problem with the busses is that they use the roads, and the roads back up in snow. Rail is usually a lot more reliable, period.
My first reaction to the SLUT being shut down was “WTF”, then I realized that the thing is so gosh-awful slow that sooner or later it’d be a sitting duck for getting nailed by some idiot careening sideways on the ice in an Escalade.
Oh, and “Ivan”…what you say is true about the awful old Breda “tunnel slugs”, but evidently you’ve not ridden one of the new articulated hybrids. They’re anything but sluggish.
Rail service doesn’t grind to a halt in other areas where it gets a hell of a log colder than it’s been here. The explanation that “the switches all froze” doesn’t quite pass the sniff test. Someone got caught with their pants down, or BNSF managed to strike another blow against the passenger service they’d rather not have to deal with anyway.
Now, anyone want to discuss what’s been happening at Sea-Tac? This could be taken as evidence that the Wright Brothers were wrong after all.
The report below is about transit in Sweden. They seem to have a significant amount of snow there (snarky sarcasm). Maybe someone should give their management a call and see how they make things work, but much of it isn’t a government run operation. Some new ideas might help.
http://www.apta.com/services/i.....candin.cfm
“Sweden
Since 1993, Stockholm Transport (SL) has procured all its public transit operations through open competition. Today, approximately 70 percent of the bus and rail lines in the metropolitan area are operated under contract-a change that has produced savings of $145 million a year and garnered a cut in governmental subsidies. Farebox recovery has increased from below 30 percent in the 1980s to 44 percent last year.
With approximately 70 percent of the region’s bus service contracted out, national carriers Swebus and Linjebuss have won the majority of bids, and currently operate about 3,000 of the 7,000 buses in urban revenue service.
SL’s bus operations contracts use a system of rewards and penalties to ensure quality control. For urban bus services, annual passenger surveys are used to assess on-time performance, vehicle cleanliness, passenger information, and customer service. Using the surveys as incentives, contractors whose customers report performance exceeding minimum standards by 2 percent are rewarded with bonuses of approximately $26,000 and another $13,000 for each additional percentage point. Conversely, contractors whose performance falls 2 percent below minimum standards are charged $26,000 and $13,000 for each additional point. Penalties are also deducted for significant service delays not reported and for reported cases of driver misconduct.
SL has also awarded contracts for operating its three metro rail lines that provide over a million passenger trips a day. In addition, the Rosiagsbanan suburban railway service, providing over 24,000 daily passenger trips, and tram services, providing over 10,000 daily trips, are contracted out. Beginning in 2000, commuter rail services, providing 200,000 daily passenger trips, will be contracted out; the operation of a new light rail system due to open in 1999 will be contracted out.
Rail operations contracts cover “overall responsibility for quality with respect to customers, planning operations, and rail traffic control, manning and technical maintenance of rolling stock.” SL normally leases vehicles to contractors and owns the tracks and facilities. In some instances, station staffing is also contracted out. Personnel displaced by contract operations are to join the new operator. Service contracts are awarded for five-to-10year periods.
In Gothenburg, the former public transit authority was converted in 1989 into a city-owned holding company. To date, over two thirds of Gothenburg’s bus routes have been contracted out. GS, the holding company, has won over half of the contracts put out for bid, and Linjebuss has won the remainder of the contracts.
Transit costs in Gothenburg have been cut by 30 percent, in large part due to privatization. But service changes have also been made. Bus service between 10 p.m. and 5 a.m. was eliminated to reduce costs, a decision that riders found unacceptable. In a compromise, service was restored; however, nighttime fares were doubled and discounts eliminated. The service is now self-supporting and well used by riders.”
Just for comparison, the Transit Commissioner of Portland gave some statistics in his news conference today.
Portland has:
52 Plowing trucks
1300 miles of Primary Arterials
I believe the stats for Seattle are:
27 Plowing trucks
1531 miles of Primary Arterials
So, can we all agree that by any measure, Seattle is pretty fucking pathetic in this department? Even Portland does better. (Yes, I realize they’ve been hit with more snow in this particular storm, so they are just as crippled at this moment, but they are generally better prepared.)
Oh, and with respect to those frozen switches on the light rail in Portland, I saw on a Portland TV station’s report that it seems the switches simply weren’t outfitted with heaters, as they are rarely needed. They are standard items, not some sort of exotic add-on. If they were installed, light rail would not have been quite so crippled.
@27:
Sludge Puppy,
The problem with you posting that here is that it makes complete and utter sense. This is Seattle, where govt exists for govt. sake and every project is conceived with remarkably little outside input and an eye on how many more private sector jobs can be shifted onto the govt. payroll.
Seattle’s “light rail” is a complete and utter joke. They had multiple unsolicited bids for better, faster, longer, and cheaper systems but instead chose the current dog. These other systems actually made a bit of sense. They did things like:
-ran up and down the main transportation corridors.
-linked up at current park and rides.
-ran elevated in the current median.
-etc.
In other words they would move people up and down the I-5 and I-405 corridor very efficiently. But we should be proud of Light Rail and The Sounder. They do neither but do it well. Oh wait they don’t even do it well. The Sounder is shut down for mud slides and Light Rail is shut down due to cold weather. ahhh :(.
And for all of you dolts that will scoff, yes I have inside information from two of the current contractual firms involved in land acquisition and technology infrastructure.
Dave Ross commented today that the SLUT is shut down due to snow.
In May 2000, I submitted a monorail design to Sound Transit. It was only 4 miles of ‘single-track’ added to the existing line in two loops, one on each end, circling Seattle Center, instead of bulldoze through, and circling downtown, First and Capital Hills to serve the Library, Harborview, Seattle University, SCCC and the Convention Center. It was low-cost and low-impact. It required 6 traincars instead of the Green Line’s 25. Expansion did not preclude extension to Ballard and West Seattle. Even at 1/4 the cost of the Green Line, it produced more revenue-generating ridership. Goldy was too chickenshit to bother with a good idea, as are most know-it-all Seattler dumbass fukwads. Have a nice day.
It appears that most of the posters here do not ride public transportation and know little about it. For example, with regard to articulated buses, what data do you have that the articulated buses are having more problems with the snow/ice than the other buses?
With regard to articulated buses being used to limit union bus drivers. Please note that many articulated buses are packed (examples 41,71,72,73,545 etc.) and some run packed every 5 minutes during rush hours. Are you suggesting it would be better to run non-articulated buses on these routes? If so, what would be the benefit? Obviously, these routes cry out for rail since only rail can deliver the capacity needed by these routes.
With regard to public transportation, especially rail, being expensive, I heard all the same idiotic arguments limos, helicopters, are cheaper when I lived in South Florida. However, they were thankfully ignored and as a result Miami has an elevated train system, people mover, and a regional train that covers three counties. Seattle always considers itself smarter but should be embarrassed with regard to its lack of rail service.
With regard to the comments about rail privatization, I have never been to Sweden but I can speak to the UK where service and safety have vastly deteriorated. I would think that any notion that corporations can do things better than government would be rejected out of hand based on the health care (US worst in the industrialized world) and all the financial disasters.
Now this is not to say that Metro has not done stupid things. For example, running electric bus trolleys during this weather is idiotic. An accident or stuck car or semi can clog up the route for hours. Trolleys can not bypass these accidents but diesel buses can. They should have stuck to diesel buses – especially since they were not running full capacity which means there should have been plenty of diesel buses available.
It is also ridiculous that they couldn’t keep the SLUT running. Other cities like Prague can keep their street cars running so hopefully Seattle/Metro will learn from their mistakes.
Finally, I always see a lot of stupid comments posted about public transportation by people that obviously don’t use it. Please use public transportation before you comment on it. Here are some useful links. Plan you trip by clicking here. Actual, real time bus arrival times can be found by clicking here. If you have Java installed, you can view the actual location of buses by clicking here.
Happy Festivus
@32:
The DOT’s own admission on the local news you dolt.
I would venture that many of us that bash our locally crappy “mass transit” have ridden it, and extensively. This may account for some of the vehemence. Anybody who has ridden it here as well as the East Coast can attest that SoundTransit/RTA are heading down the wrong path. But go ahead and blow us off. All of the pols have.
Personally riding the bus for me equates to the following contrasts:
15 mins and 7 miles by cars vs. 1hr and 20 plus miles by bus. Well two buses considering the transfer.
I have not lived anywhere in the greater Seattle metro area where our “transit” system isn’t a burden instead of an alternative. Compare that to the bus and metro system in DC or even Vancouver BC where the systems compliment each other and take into account ACTUAL transit/daily migration routes. Not so here in Seattle. Post all the links you want you can’t change the facts.
Actually I think the problem is that so many of the people in Western WA have never used a real mass transit system anywhere else that they have no idea they are being sold a big steaming pile of shit.
.
Let’s see the statistics. Based on my bus trips around Seattle, I have so far only seen non-articulated buses stuck in snow. Of course this is only anecdotal evidence and not scientific. Do you have any statistics or are you just going by what you see on TV? BTW, articulated buses are going down my street every 15 minutes without any problems.
I commute 10 miles from Seattle to Redmond (route 25 to 242) and the commute times are approximately equal since the buses can use the HOV lane. I have to take two buses (sometimes 3) as well. I would be curious to see what routes cause such a differential between bus and drive times. Do you mind posting the routes?
Merry Christmas
@34:
I don’t need statistics. DOT was on the freaking nightly news talking about the problems (King 5) they were having with the articulated buses. And I’m not saying anything about articulated buses other than they have issues in the snow.
I’m very happy the bus commute works out for you. I’ve lived in numerous places in Western WA. Kitsap area, Edmonds, North Seattle, now north end. The bus commute for me has never made sense because it has almost always doubled (or more) my commute time.
Your experience is typical though. You live in prime commuter area so you have a good view. I live North and commute into Everett. I used to commute into Redmond. A 45 minute to an hour commute (1.5 consistently on the back roads) was 2 on a bus if nothing went wrong, but 3 consistently. Yeah for transit.
I’m taking my experiences across the country with similar distances and comparing them to transit experiences here in WA. There really isn’t. WA (specifically our area) does not know how to do transit. They don’t know how to plan, they don’t know how to market, etc. They will not lead and make the hard choices. And the “big” leaders continually put off even discussing the issues. Hoping it goes away? I don’t know.