[Typed on my Blackberry. Excuse the typos.]
At around 1:10pm, while getting ready to go to work, I stepped on the corner of a garbage bag. In that bag was the lid of a can of olives… My heel met that lid from the olive can, and well… The guy I’m housesitting for is probably going to need a new mat for his back door.
Sitting on this hospital bed at Overlake is giving me the chance to reflect, in real time, about healthcare in the USA.
This visit is going to cost me $125 bucks. Did I try to shop around, maybe to look for a better deal to avoid the ER? I did, but with a shoeful of blood, its tough to comparison shop.
Whats good about the situation is that I’m going to recieve excellent medical care. In America, we don’t ration healthcare. I’m going to get the full boat: tiny stitches, local pain meds, and a flat tube TV on the wall.
In America, we don’t ration healthcare. We ration the access to that healthcare. We run a healthcare system that no serious conservative politician in any country would advocate for. In England, Tory leader David Cameron reaffirmed his support for the NHS after a member of his party made dispariging statements on American TV. Cameron wants to be Prime Minister one day, and he knows that for its flaws, each and every Briton would pick the NHS over America’s broken system any day.
After I’ve been patched up and sent on my way, the hospital will ring up my charges and bill my insurance. They will bill at the highest rate possible to recoup for uncompensated care. You see, the simple fact that some don’t have insurance makes the insurance I do have more expensive. Whats more, my health insurance company will spend %12 of every dollar on paperwork, processing, and other overhead. Medicare, The Great Healthcare Satan, spends far less.
For all the monkeytalk coming out of DC these days, its easy to lose track of the reality of a broken healthcare system, and how regular Americans must navigate it every day, Americans of all stripes.
The doctor is on his way in, so I’ll close by saying this:
Universal health insurance is no more a socialist plot that universal car insurance.
[Typed on my Blackberry. Excuse the typos.]
Its gonna cost you more like a $1000. Yours is $125 and then you have to pay for the last 7 people who no habla englais. Let us know how much it really was!
First off, glad your alright, and hope your foot heals (pun) quickly… How’s the ol arm after the tetnus shot???
Second, your situation is not a good example in that you would not be turned away from the ER. Access to health care in the US is as simple as walking into the ER…
what, you have a problem paying for the illegals in the emergency room with you? whats a good liberal to do.
Right Stuff @2, Will didn’t get Health Care at the ER, he got Injury Care. Other ER users get Illness Care.
What the ER doesn’t provide is Health Care — helping to keep people healthy. You can also call it Wellness Care.
I don’t have time to go into details about the distinctions here, but I think they’re pretty clear when you think about them.
will–
Good you understand the “freeloader” surcharge.
So we get the Public Health option…do you think the “freeloader” surcharge magically disappears?? Fat Chance.
Do you really think “rich folks” will pick up the entire tab??
Perhaps your recent “blood-letting” will re-energize your atrophied brain cells.
@ Cynical:
Yes, it will disappear, and health care costs will come down for everyone, because everyone will be paying into the system.
That’s the whole point of insuring every American. Of course if we want to get serious about controlling health care costs, we have to also have a public option to compete with the private insurers.
The real horror of Will’s story is that someone put a can lid in the trash bag instead of a recycle bin.
A couple of months ago my wife’s dog and my daughter’s dog got into a fight. With neither one letting go, I had to pull them apart (one had the other’s throat in her mouth). For my trouble I got a nice gash on one of my fingers, obviously requiring stitches.
It’s a Sunday afternoon, so my choices are limited. I’ve got two options under my insurance plan: Providence Hospital, or the Everett Clinic (which closes in twenty minutes). Being a responsible person trying to keep down the costs for everyone involved, I ask my son to take me to the Everett Clinic.
I get placed in a room fairly quickly, they take a quick look at my hand and have me soak it in an antiseptic solution. But in the meantime they take my temperature and blood pressure. About a half hour later the doctor comes in and says that because my blood pressure is low, they can’t give me stitches and are transferring me to the emergency room at Providence Hospital. As she is talking to me, the Fire Dept. arrives and is wheeling in a guerney to transport me to the hospital by aid car.
I protest that I feel fine, if they would just stitch up my hand and let me sit for a half hour or so, I’ll be fine. If I have to go to the hospital, my son can drive me (he’s still waiting out front). But no, the doctor insists that I would pass out if I stand up, and that I can’t stay there any longer since there would be no one there to monitor me, and going to the hospital (via aid car) is my only option.
So I give in and get transported to the hospital by aid car – in part because the doctor is making some comments about how concerned she is about my heart, implying that I have something to be concerned about. I joke with the paramedic along the way about how that’s probably the least blood they’ve ever seen for a transport to the emergency room.
In the emergency room they see me right away, take my blood pressure, temperature, put some whatever-you-call-those-things on my chest to do an EKG of my heart, determine that there is no major emergency, and then disapear to take care of higher-priority patients.
A couple of hours later a couple of nurses are walking by, saying that they’ve got a bed shortage and they are trying to triage the patients in the waiting room. I shout out to them that if someone would just put a couple of stiches in my hand, I would be happy to let them have my bed. About fifteen minutes later the doctor comes in, looks at my chart, and asks me why Everett Clinic sent me over. I explained. She shakes her head, and comments that my blood pressure was just marginally low, that the only reason they sent me over was so they could go ahead and close for the day. A couple of stiches later, and I’m ready to go.
I haven’t added up the total cost. Everett Clinic charged me $20.00 co-pay (it should have been $10.00, but how long can you argue with the gal at the front desk about your own insurance plan?). They just sent me another bill for about $180 for taking my blood pressure, etc., which insurance has denied because it should have been included in the office visit charges. The insurance company already paid out about $250.00 for that visit.
As for Providence Hospital, I paid a $100.00 emergency room deductable, and the insurance company paid over $500.00. The doctor’s bill will be paid by the insurance company at 80% of whatever they decided is a “reasonable charge”, since the doctor herself isn’t in my network. In my past experience, that means the insurance company will pay 80% of 50% of the bill, and I will pay the rest.
The fire dept. just sent me a bill for $180.00 for the trip to the hospital, which is in excess of the $280.00 which the insurance company has already paid.
Now, I’m glad there’s somebody who can put a couple of stiches in my hand on a Sunday afternoon. I’m glad I had insurance. And the doctor at the hospital was more than competent, and I’m not complaining about the wait time since my situation obviously wasn’t an emergency. But anybody who thinks things should work out this way, that this is the “greatest medical care system” in the world, is crazy.
In contrast, the vet bill to put a few stiches in my wife’s dog was $125.00 (after-hours emergency care).
rhp6033
That story would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
I’m so sick of these ridiculous debates about health care. Every major industrialized country, and some not so major, manage to provide objectively better results at an objectively much lower cost, yet according to the cynical’s of this world, anyone who wants to move in that direction is a moron.
Meanwhile 50 million are left uninsured, millions are bankrupted by medical cost every year, and many of those have had continuos health insurance coverage leading up to the financial ruin.
And foreign manufacturers are put at a competitive advantage because they don’t have to cover the costs of healthcare for their workers and retirees.
Why is there even a “debate”?
@7
you fool. you think that would get better when the government runs it like the post office or the registry? moron
Anyone seen Stupes lately?
Here’s one for him and his best best bud, the Jew hater, fiendoflies:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....62554.html
Imagine that. Israel has a public option of sorts.
@9
Yes.
And by the way, for 42¢ a person will come to your house, pick up a single letter, and it will be delivered ANYWHERE in the country in 1-7 days.
Sounds like an amazingly efficient operation to me.
And to answer your question more fully, the government won’t be “running” healthcare, they will be paying for it, without the overhead and profit of private insurers, and the health care providers, in a single payer system will have a fraction of the overhead because the myriad of insurance providers and accompanying administrative costs will be eliminated.
@9:
Furthermore, your are just one more example of an anti-healthcare reformer that cannot construct a defendable argument, therefore you resort to the “moron” accusation.
Not the most intellectual way to make your case.
@9 Manoftruth
IDIOT.
Check the online satisfaction ratings for the USPS, FedEx, and UPS. if you are smart enough to USE the internet. Even in Montana we are smart enough to believe in Thomas Jefferson. He’s a figure in history.
Got any other brilliant observations, Dr. Einstein? Or do you just eat the shit other anti-semites feed you?
Don’t bother answering, we already know.
Stupid asshole. You disgust civilized sheepfuckers, you’re such a cesspool licker.
Gee Will, I’m sorry about your mishap. You’re lucky it wasn’t chest pains. I went to an ER a few years ago to get some chest pains checked out. I didn’t think I was having a heart attack, but didn’t want to take a chance. The doctor talked me into staying overnight in the hospital for tests. It turned out to be indigestion.
ER + overnighte hospital stay + doctor + followup tests = 20 thousand bucks. Insurance paid most of it, and good thing too, because who the hell can afford TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS for one freaking night in a hospital??! And that was almost 10 years ago; it’s probably 35K now.
@2 “you would not be turned away from the ER. Access to health care in the US is as simple as walking into the ER…”
That’s the point I’ve been making all along. When the 50 million uninsured go to ERs, the rest of us pay for it. Isn’t that socialism?
Wingnuts claim people who can afford to buy health insurance don’t. If that’s true, shouldn’t our laws require them to, so the rest of us don’t get stuck with their medical bills?
@7
RHP I am going to take the devils advocate position here….
I assume you’re not a doctor, nor am I.
I think that there’s far more to you being sent to the ER than wanting to close the clinic to go home…
Maybe you were treated by a PA at the clinic? Or an NP? or maybe, based on your vitals, they were not capable of handling a potentially bad situation if you would have “crashed”?
Isn’t it a good situation that a medical professional evaluated your condition and decided that you needed better care (potentially life saving care) at another facility and arranged for that for you?
If you are cynical of the clinics motives, wouldn’t they have made “more profit” in treating you fully there, rather than txfering you to the hospital?
I understand the inconvenience you had to go through, I stuck my hand in the middle of a scuffle between my two German Shepherds back in 2002. Went to the ER and got a few stitches and spent ~3-4 hours there.
I tend to think the better of our health care professionals, as I have not had any poor experiences. (knock on wood) I do know that there are plenty of horror stories that cause folks to think differently. I’m not one of them.
@5 Yup, we’ve got a lot of people freeloading off paying patients and health insurance subscribers. As we have to pay for their health care anyway, we Democrats want to reduce the costs of that care by putting them into a regular insurance program, and getting them into preventive care before they incur expensive treatments. You Republicans are ag’in it. You must like paying top dollar to take care of the freeloaders when they show up at the nation’s ERs. Or maybe you Republicans are just plain STUPID.
If Will’s ER trip costs $125 and he will end up paying $1000 (for the seven illegals)- that means that the uninsured and underinsured WalMart workers must be covered for free.
@18 No, that means the rest of us are subsidizing Wal-Mart’s profits. Btw wingnuts, America is now full of illegals because Bush wanted an open border because cheap labor conservatives want the illegal workers so they don’t have to pay American wages to American citizens.
@9 The post office is better run than a lot of companies I could name. Have you tried to get anything resembling customer service from a private company lately?
You want to see something really fucking ugly? Here’s a rabid wingnut woman shouting out “Heil Hitler” to an Israeli Jew who supports healthcare reform, as he was being interviewed on TV.
http://www.youtube.com/klastv#.....VS4Zgjm8HE
@11 “the government won’t be “running” healthcare, they will be paying for it, without the overhead and profit of private insurers, and the health care providers, in a single payer system will have a fraction of the overhead because the myriad of insurance providers and accompanying administrative costs will be eliminated”
And, even more important, they won’t be searching for excuses to deny your claim in order to boost their profits.
Great post, Will.
@19
And so…..What are the Democrats doing about it? Must be because they want cheap labor so they don’t have to pay union wages to American workers..
Oh and I forgot to add, there was no illegal immigrant problem before GWB, only after Jan 20, 2001.
@21 It seems as though Republicans are hell-bent on proving to the world they’re even dumber and nastier than everyone else already thinks they are.
@24 Pandering to their corporate Republican masters like the lackeys they are, like they always do. And frankly, we grassroots Democrats are disgusted with them.
I want to see the penis-challenged Arizona brain-dead-enders with their AR-15s up against the BATF or the National Guard. Heck, their local police are probably so miltarized that they can bring some pretty heavy iron into the fray.
So go ahead, little boys, start shooting to “protect your rights” and you will end up fucking dead. That’s just the way it is. Ask the Weathermen, the Black Panthers, and the Symbionese Liberation Army. Oh, and Randy Weaver. He’s got some stories to tell ya.
That said, I totally understand why they have given up on voting as a way to change the government, because clearly they will never win an election with these batshit crazy fucks.
RR notes:
Furthermore, companies like UPS and FedEx operate quite successfully in competition with the “public option” of the USPS.
@26 What it boils down to is the Democrats are the best Republican Party this country has.
The other one isn’t worth a dog turd in the sun.
Rossiphiles should be very happy with Gregoire now that she’s running our state government like a Republican would.
@28
The USPS has a gov mandated monopoly. UPS and Fedex do not deliver mail to every residential address in the country. The USPS has a monopoly and is still running a huge deficit. They also have open access to federal reserve funds..
None of those things apply to UPS or Fed-ex.
And despite all those competitive disadvantages, Right Stuff, FedEx and UPS make plenty of money. You’ve just made my point for me.
I think I’ve got it. This isn’t about Hitler, socialism, freedom or government. It’s about cash. The wingnuts are pretending this is about personal freedom and liberty. They’re patriots just trying to stop “another” encroachment of government. But that’s not true. If you think about it, they’ve never given a crap about that. They gave away the store, gave Obama the power to spy on us, read our email, listen to our calls, hold us without charge forever if Obama thinks we’re a threat…that the wingnuts gave that up with applause. They also have no problem with the government controlling our sex lives, what we put into our bodies, or who we marry. Personal liberty? No. They’re FOR all those government encroachments on liberty. Why? They’re FREE. They’re abstract to them. The health care thing might cost them money (might save some too, that’s debatable). It turns out they’ll happy to give up liberty, they’re only fighting over money. Cash over freedom.
Right stuff @ 31,
“The USPS has a monopoly and is still running a huge deficit.”
Yeah…so are lot and lots of businesses these days.
“They also have open access to federal reserve funds.”
I guess the post office has it own mini-TARP program, huh? The post office is just another victim of George W. Bush’s eight years of frat boy economics.
@11 and 13
are you guys serious? the post office only exists because of billions in taxpayer subsidies. thats why it can “deliver something anywhere in the country for 42 cents”.
And, by federal mandate, USPS is by far the largest employer of vets, disabled and otherwise, and disabled Americans in general,and only American citizens, in the country.
Load the UPS end FedEx folks with such responsibilities and see how THEY do, Buster. They are also required to process, at a loss, all the junk mail vomited out by the Direct Mail Association members, which organization lobbied congress to make that the law.
So you can bitch all you want about the Post Office. Privatize it and you will get what you deserve. And I hope you do, the laughs will be terrific. And then let’s see what you do with all those vets and disabled that can’t work elsewhere. Suppose that will raise the taxes a little?
You want to see Privatized Post in all its glory? Look to Canada. Businesses have to resort to couriers to get their stuff around. And try waiting for a letter from Toronto.
You sound a lot like MOT, babbling with no facts. Typical Republican propaganda and misinformation.
@36
And, by federal mandate, USPS is by far the largest employer of vets, disabled and otherwise, and disabled Americans in general,and only American citizens, in the country.
Load the UPS end FedEx folks with such responsibilities and see how THEY do, Buster.
oh my god!!! that is the record for hilarity.
so what your saying is, the diversity and affirmative action are not good for busines?? hahahaha!!!!oh my god. the cornerstone of liberalism is diversity is our strength. oh stop me before i crack a rib from laughing.
As usual the liberal reactionists are incapable of framing an argument absent personal abuse.
If you folks really believe providing regular healthcare to 50 million more Americans (a very debatable number, but for arguments sake..) is going to cost less I don’t even know where to begin. With someone so divorced from reality that they could believe something like that, facts simply don’t work. Quote statistics and polls all you like. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Freedom versus money? How much freedom do I have if liberals can help themselves to the contents of my hard earned bank account at will? As for Bush attacks on civil rights you folks on the left always try this red herring. It doesn’t matter to this specific debate. Bush was wrong. This doesn’t mean we need for Obama to be more wrong.
Yes, you can fiddle the numbers to describe how awful health care is in this country. That’s dishonest and unethical. Unfortunately this is endemic on both sides of this debate, so let’s keep it simple. The government belongs in no way involved in my personal health care. To the extent that they are we need to phase those programs out, like medicare and medicaid. Current retirees paid into the system, or believe they did. I have little sympathy for anyone young or in middle age who believes they have a right to government sponsered health care, pensions or any other form of organized crime.
[Deleted — see HA Comment Policy]
manoftruth @ 37,
As usual, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. The mandate referred to has nothing to do with affirmative action.
Start with a reading of Executive Order 13078 and the Americans With Disabilities Act.
@36
“You sound a lot like MOT, babbling with no facts. Typical Republican propaganda and misinformation.”
Please refer to my comments and highlight what propaganda I was spewing…
I don’t know what you are getting at with regardst to vets and disabled workers at USPS. Where did I comment about any of that?
Privitize? You are the one bringing that into the conversation.
Steve@21: Puddy says that was disgusting what that lady did.
@42 Good to hear, Puddy.
@40
what are you talking about darryl? he said the weight of disabled and others (and i assume others would be affirmative action hires), are costing the post office more. you cant interpret it any other way.
27 The guy with the AR-15 was on your team pretty boy, but I do appreciate your enthusiasm.
manoftruth,
“and i assume others would be affirmative action hires”
Indeed…because you are a fucking idiot.
mark @ 45,
“The guy with the AR-15 was on your team pretty boy”
Sorry, Squirt, but you are wrong. He was with a Ron Paul event. And the last I checked, Rep. Paul was a Republican.
@44
After all the men and women who served our country are incompetent and unsuitable for private sector employment. We should stop letting them freeload and make them get jobs sweeping floors and flipping burgers.
@2
Your right he wouldn’t be turned away, but he might go bankrupt trying to pay the bill. 50% of US bankruptcies are from medical debit.
The current system is unsustainable and broken. That it needs to change is fact and not debatable. What it needs to change into IS and should be debatable. Unfortunately all we’re getting from the Right is a bunch of fact-less howler monkeys.
38 lost
So I assume that you will not take advantage of Medicare when you are eligible?
38 Blue
Well, that’s OK, because I do know where to begin. Let’s begin at #1.
1. Treating people who have let their conditions go until they reach a health crisis is MUCH more expensive than giving people access to “regular health care” with access to screenings, medical advice, testing, and primary care when conditions are just beginning.
2. Treating people in emergency rooms (because that’s all they have with no insurance) is MUCH more expensive than in a doctor’s office.
3. If you understood insurance you would understand that a larger pool makes things cheaper for everyone.
4. Our proposed health care bills contain a number of cost-containment measures that will lower costs and offset any short-term costs from increasing coverage. Check the PDF “Controlling Costs” from the America’s Affordable Health Choices Act. Not that you care about, you know, actual policy.
With respect, Daddy Love, you are using ‘facts’ to avoid reality. A thing can often be more than the sum of its’ parts.
If medicare is around when I retire I may or may not take it. But I’m not counting on it, and have purchased a policy now while younger to keep costs manageable. I’m not counting on SS to pay for my living expenses either and have a variety of investments that mature at 65 to take care of that. It is called forethought and planning. I don’t owe anyone anything from my tax dollar who can’t do that. I specifically mentioned phasing it out to allow for those close enough to retirement and therefore unable so to plan.
You are absolutely correct in assuming care for non-emergency patients at the ER is many times more expensive than visiting a doctor in his or her office. Also, in writing that waiting until a cancer has become inoperable is much more expensive than treating it at early onset.
Your side of the political fence is partially correct in something else. Insurance for health maintanance is not the way to go. If I insure my car for maintanance my premiums would be more expensive than the maintanance. Health insurance is the same way. I insure my car for catastrophic events and that keeps the premium reasonable. If we insured for major medical expenses rather than day to day care insurance would be manageable. As it is progressives and unions asked for cradle to grave care from their extorted insurance from their employer. Is it any wonder the premiums are high?
Let their health care go until it reaches crisis? I don’t know about that, but I do know that regular visits to a physician don’t keep the smoker from smoking. They don’t keep the glutton from overindulging. These probably have as much or more to do with critical care not based on injury than anything else, and are not addressed in ‘Obamacare.’ I take care of myself, eat well, drink lightly and don’t smoke. Why should I pay for the blue collar beer guzzling smoker who never walks except when his car is broken down?
I do know that if I save 10% on all the books I buy, but buy 30% more books I don’t have a net savings, pool or no. You can blather all you like about pools and such. You can provide a rose colored glasses link, but it means you trust government provided budget prognostications. I am a realist, and don’t.
It comes down to that, you know. Do you trust the government provided numbers, or do you believe they are a fiction to support the insupportable? I understand that most progressives believe theirs’ is the best way to construct a society. Progressives are either insecure or childish, in the main, though and must villify and assign malign motives to those who believe otherwise.
I feel your pain, Will. As we speak my wife is in the hospital here in Reno. In so many words, her legs have just given up on her, probably the result of damage her insurance company said wasn’t there as a result of a car crash in 2000. The doctors in Olympia even showed us an x-ray showing two bulging discs in her back, then the next day told us that they weren’t bulging, or even the least bit damaged. Now she can’t feel her legs, let alone walk. We have no insurance, and she’s waiting for approval for SS/Disability. But we had no choice other than going to the hospital. An MRI reads as normal, and a CT scan… well, we don’t know. A neurologist is on tap for today, but nobody is sure what’s wrong with her. A smartass like me would say that this is an episode of House waiting to happen, but the hard truth is that this will likely bankrupt us. I may eventually have to consider the possibility of having to divorce my wife in order to keep the hospital from garnishing my pay from my two jobs.
My wife could use Medicare, a ‘public option’, anything right about now.
And to be fair, I appreciate your cogent arguments, whether I agree with them or not.
I appreciate the avoidance of personal abuse which adds not one whit to the discussion.
That’s really sad to read, Joe. I hope that somehow everything works out for you two.
Doing the best we can, Steve. Any thoughts, prayers, rituals or animal sacrifices will be appreciated right about now.
Sorry. My Scottish gallows humor is just about the only thing keeping me sane right now. Gotta get to the hospital now.
“Any thoughts, prayers, rituals or animal sacrifices will be appreciated right about now.”
You’ve got them all, Joe. We might have to round up Klynical’s goat for that last one, though.
Israel’s population rose to 7,411,000
Los angeles 9,862,049
Prayers out Joe.
Here’s hoping for the best for your family!!
WILL!!!!
GREAT POST! This is the best way HA can serve us all.
You summarize a lot of huge issues really6 well in this little post.
The amount YOU are paying is rational, but it is crazy that someone has to do some double handed book keeping to subsidize other people’s health from your insurance. That is a bizarre form of taxation.
The coolest thing about the Obam proposals is that ey replace this sort of book keeping gimmick with a real cost analysis.
I do not understand why this is even a tiny bit difficult to understand. Unless we want to put armed guards around the health care facilities to keep THEM out, we absolutely need a simple system that pays the bills.
@52 lostinaseaofblue spews:
Good post
But where does it lead?
It seems to me that you (as well as many liberals) are confusing two entirely different issues in the healthcare debate.
One is whether we want to provide some level of healthcare for everyone. WE now do so. Not doing so would likley require armed guards around the hospitals (that actually happens in Brazil!).
What we do not do now is pay for this function in any sensible way. Instead we put a hidden tax on YOUR insurance . That makes no sense AND leads to unrealistic discussions about overcharging for care. OF COURSE hospitals overcharge, they are REQUIRED to by the stupid system.
The second issue is cost containment. The conservatve assertion that our current system is free market is inane. MS Windows and healthcare .. neither is a free market. In the former case in most localities you have only two or three choioces or maybe only one (depending on your employer). Worse YOU have no personal incentive to reduce costs because your employer face, again, a kind of unstated tax.
The main reason we need a government option is to undermine this effed up system. Every patient should be paid for by a defined source. It seems to me there is no credible way of being sure that happens that other than guvmed.
So tell me this:
do you see another way of fixing the system or are you comfortable with denying care to those who can not pay for it?
Thanks, RS. My wife is improving a bit, but it’ll still likely be a few days before they send her home, and an official diagnosis of her condition has yet to arrive. But the prevailing opinion is that her sarcoidosis has come out of remission, and is possibly attacking her nervous system, causing the inability of her brain to send signals to her legs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcoidosis