The Facebook group that proclaims “Washington Tax Payers OPT OUT of Rob McKenna’s lawsuit” has reached an astonishing 10,543 members as I prepare to post this, and shows little sign of slowing its growth. Yeah, a Facebook group is “just” a Facebook group, but what I’ve noticed is the sheer volume of people who feel utterly betrayed, because they voted for McKenna.
At times it seems like every other comment or so is along the lines of “wow, I voted for him because I thought he was a straight shooter and would run the AG’s office in a non-political manner, but I was wrong.” And then they promise to never vote for him again, because they simply cannot fathom why this guy is trying to destroy something that took so long to achieve, flawed as it is. Some people tell their stories about lack of health insurance coverage and what it’s done to their lives, and frankly I’m amazed at how restrained most have been in the tone of their comments.
They’re hurt, and they’re angry, because a lot of folks still believed, deep down, that Rob McKenna was a good guy. But good guys don’t pull petulant political stunts like throwing down with Florida attorney general and 2010 gubernatorial candidate Bill McCollum, who hired a D.C. law firm that he used to lobby for to pursue the lawsuit.
This lawsuit not only seems to have little chance of success, it also has the rank odor of sour grapes left to rot in expensive, hand-tailored suits. It’s pandering of the worst sort. A small minority of citizens, egged on by monied interests, have employed every idiotic and demagogic claim possible to discredit health care reform, and yet it passed anyhow, with admitted imperfections. Many of these imperfections were caused by the political situation itself, as conservative Democrats leveraged their positions over endless months of searching for a bi-partisanship that could never be achieved.
Instead of deciding to work with President Barack Obama, the GOP decided to be a completely obstructionist party. Think about that, it’s not just terminology. They would not allow a single, solitary member of their party to vote for the package, and they simultaneously negotiated in bad faith while standing before microphones claiming they were being excluded.
Despite the relatively conservative nature of the final plan, for political reasons the GOP cannot now admit defeat nor error. Rather than show some courage, McKenna decided to become a poster boy for this pathetic party of nothingness, nihiism and nuts. Republicans are fond of trying to taunt Democrats with cries of “political suicide,” but the ones engaged in ritualistic acts of self-destruction (like the lawsuit) have an “R” after their name.
From what I can tell, lots of the folks commenting on Facebook are not your hard-bitten political activists, because people keep wanting to know if we can impeach McKenna (yeah, with 3/4 of each chamber of the Legislature) or if he can be recalled (short answer: for cause, with a buttload of signatures and a whole bunch of other hoops.) Good old liberals, always looking for the rational, legal solution, I love ’em.
Sure, we can promise to defeat McKenna if he runs for governor in 2012, but we also have to keep the heat on right now. So go join up on Facebook if you haven’t already, and tell your friends and relatives (the ones who don’t watch Fox Noise, anyhow.) It’s going to be an interesting time.
The HA clock must be fast. My cell phone says it is only 11:43 PM right now, but HA says that your posting was made at 11:48 PM.
And to make matters worse, my comment shows as being posted at 11:51 PM.
Actually, under Article V, Sections 1 and 2, McKenna can be impeached by a majority of the House and convicted by 2/3 of the Senate. Impeachment is limited to “high crimes or misdemeanors, or malfeasance in office”, and requires a proper trial before the Senate.
In the alternative, McKenna can simply be removed from office under Article IV, Section 9 for “incompetency, corruption, malfeasance, or delinquency in office, or other sufficient cause stated in such resolution”. That would require 3/4 vote of both the House and the Senate, and McKenna would perhaps be entitled to somewhat less due process than a regular trial.
Rob McKenna supporters now have their own FaceBook Page for fans of his lawsuit against health insurance!
At the present time, there are 430 pro-McKenna fans, versus 10,820 anti-McKenna fans.
I love it, they call themselves ‘the majority’ they kept pounding that drum on Sunday; ‘the majority of people dont want this bill…the majority…blah blah blah…’
10,000 facebook against vs 430 fb in favor
Washington does not forget easily. Rob will not be re elected.
‘Delusions of grandeur’ that’s the Republican party today, yeah yeah.
McKenna is a pig. Though he was hiding it, he’s just like the rest of them..a RW extremist. Probably a teabagger too.
Obviously he’s made the political calculation that joining in this lawsuit will help in his drive to be the next Governor.
I’m not so sure about that. What he’s doing is driving many Democrats away who might otherwise be predisposed towards voting for him..
This is a big mistake for Rob. Heretofore, he was a voice of reason in the GOP, a party that seems to have lost its mind. I voted for him in both of the last two elections.
I can only surmise that he did it to shore up his credentials with the Tea Baggers; a bunch of folks who seem to think that the group that can screech the loudest is the majority.
Fortunately, they are not the majority, not even close, as evidenced by the comparative sizes of rallies held in the Capitol on Saturday (200,000 for immigration reform vs 200 Baggers).
In reality, they are just a relatively small group of hotheads who just can’t quite get their minds around the fact that we now have a woman as Speaker of the House and an African American as President. All the time forgetting Pelosi and Obama were duly elected by a clear majority of the polity.
The biggest irony is these Tea Baggers somehow believe they are on the side of God, Truth, and Righteousness.
In short, they are terribly confused.
I want McKenna in office so that we have a poster child for petulant behavior. If he gets bounced out of office, he gets to be a martyr. This way, his churlishness is on display for all to see.
He miscalculated, big time. I bet he had STATE EMPLOYEE STAFFERS go over the newspaper comments in the Seattle Times, Tacoma News Trib, Olympian, Kitsap Sun, Bellingham Herald and such and interpreted the ratio to be reflective of the population.
The only way that McKenna won is by appearing to be like Sam Reed, a geeky kind of centrist. He didn’t come across as your now typical evil republican. Well that’s over now.
I’ll never vote for another Republican ever.
The Republican/Fascist agenda has gone from trying to accomplish the nearly impossible (defeating reform) to trying to accomplish the absolutely impossible (repealing reform).
These are not positions that a party serious about governing would take. These positions are gimmicks. They are jingoistic stunts. They make for good slogans, but as far as actual policy-making goes, they are completely irrelevant.
Wow! This article smells like the feeling of the majority of people in the United States. They were AGAINST this healthcare bill, overwhelmingly 76%, but the democrats, passed it, knowing it was unpopular. They went against their constituents. Maybe we should impeach them. Hypocrites!
Liberal, tree-hugging, bedwetting, liberal Socialists! You want to turn this great nation in to some Euro-Utopia, where those who do well for themselves are FORCED to support those who don’t and those who would rather not work hard. Whatever happened to charitable giving? It’s not charitable giving when somebody takes it. Since the 1960’s this country has gone in a direction of the entitlement attitude. The government owes me something. Well, the government is the people. So, you’re saying, people owe me something. for what!!!???
@10
84% of statistics are made up on the spot.
@11
Damn, you figured out our big secret. If we’re not stopped we’ll outlaw private property, the bible, force everyone to get a gay marriage and teach Islam in the schools.
@12
Sorry. . . that doesn’t fly when even MSNBC and CNN were reporting the statistics.
Sounds like Gordon and Worf are part of that small group of hotheads….
@13
You won’t outlaw private property, because then you won’t be able to tax it. You won’t outlaw the bible, because then you wouldn’t be able to push “social justice” agenda, and you won’t force everyone to get a gay marriage because gay’s cant reproduce, which would lower the tax base. Teaching Islam in schools. . . probably.
Gordon:
49% of those polled Monday supported the bill as passed. Only 40% opposed it.
Sounds like you only read the stats you want to hear.
@15
Actually, not a hothead. . . I do claim to be conservative, but I also believe we need healthcare reform. . . just not this law. I do admit there are some good things in the law, but IMHO the bad things outweigh the good things. I hope everyone can see that the CBO numbers were a laugh. They put the enforcement of this law on the IRS, and the weighs and means committee estimates that to fund the enforcement they would need an extra 5,000,000 dollars per year; but, the IRS gets NO extra funding. How will they enforce this law? Secondly, we’ve never been forced to purchase a good or service, by the federal government, for just living. This is unprecedented.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/w.....able_N.htm
Looks like 48% are on the side of liking what is passed.
Just saying.
@17
Hmmmm. I guess I could say the same thing about you.
49% of U.S. favors suing the federal government to fight the requirement in the new health care plan.
37% disagree and oppose their state suing.
14% are undecided.
Source: Rasmussen Reports, Tuesday, March 23, 2010.
Hey, Gordon:
We just want to make you pay taxes to provide health care for all those blacks and Asians and Mexicans. We’re real bastards. We want to TAKE if from you and GIVE
Rasmussen is a GOP hack and routinely 10 points off in their favor.
Glad to hear you are on board with health care reform though. But I suspect your opposition is based on your reluctance to see the Dems get any credit for it.
The R’s had there chance to remake this bill and refused.
@22
Can you find a poll that contradicts it or is it easier to discount the poll as a GOP hack? Even if you traded 10 points, the majority would favor suing the federal government. What don’t you understand? The lawsuit doesn’t guarantee overturning the bill? Why would you oppose a lawsuit? If the bill, which became law, was constitutionally sound, then you have nothing to worry about.
@23
I’m against large government, period. I would also like that the party system be done away with and each candidate ran on his/her own platform. It’s too sneaky now. For most candidates they have to choose dem or repub and if they don’t support the party’s platform 100%, they have no chance. Too much like special interests; just at a different level.
CNN Poll… Not Rasmussen you leftist libtardo fools…
A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll found that 59 percent of those surveyed opposed the bill, and 39 percent favored it.
Of course Auntie Witless forgets Rasmussen was found to be the most accurate pollster since 2003.
Facts and libtardo minds… polar opposites.
So Chris, you must have meant those Boston Globe stats that had Scott Brown losing by 9%age points.
I wonder what will happen if this goes to the Supreme Court. I wonder if they will remember when Obama chastised them in front of the Nation during his State of the Union speech.
http://www.thepoliticalcesspool.org/jamesedwards/
wherein the racial agenda of the opposition to healthcare reform is made clear.
@30
I clicked on your link and read the March 22nd entry. Are you talking about this statement that was made on the site?
“Obamacare is simply a massive transfer of wealth from whites to non-whites. That’s not only what black and brown people want; it’s what they think the government is for.”
I don’t see how that shows the racial agenda of the opposition to healthcare reform.
@26
Puuuuuuddyyyy!!!
“All of the interviews were conducted before the House voted on Sunday night”
source: your link.
“16% said it leaves Washington with an inadequite role.”
Source: your link.
I like to say:
the American people were against the bill
before they were for it
the only poll which counts will be November’s election
will people vote Republican to repeal insurance protections?
I doubt it
is McKenna going to ever win another statewide election?
doubt that too
Listen to Dingell… 6 minutes 23 seconds into it…
“Let me remind you this [Americans allegedly dying because of lack of universal health care] has been going on for years. We are bringing it to a halt. The harsh fact of the matter is when you’re going to pass legislation that will cover 300 [million] American people in different ways it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people.“
checksez Harvard Death Poll…
SO?
Hey worf? Where are the audio and video soundbites of the peeps “using racist comments”? Please show them to Puddy and Puddy will denounce them. Puddy wants to hear the actual audio or video not some MSNBC sob story. Puddy waited now three days for some “proof”.
Why was this missed? Puddy thinks McKenna is right. This bill is a disaster!
“Full protection for children would not come until 2014, said Kate Cyrul, a spokeswoman for the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, another panel that authored the legislation.”
Puddy again asks why the wait until 2014 HA Libtardos? Start the process now… Oh wait a minute… the costs would be greater than $940 Billion and it will not save a dime.
So Puddy asked Daddy Love why are they taxing peeps starting now for coverage starting in 2014? Start the coverage now! Why delay… checksez used the harvard study and 45,000 peeps are dying every year. How many of them are children?
Since Libtardos like to be controlled and Dingell let it be known that’s the final outcome… enjoy being controlled. Puddy don’t like to be controlled by libtardos.
Puddy, Worf, Gordon:
If HCR is manna from heaven for the GOP, why all the name calling, hysteria, childish legislative tactics and violence?
You all sound desperate to me.
Pelosi threatening again… Well can you say hello single payer if they freeze out the insurance companies, friends of Senate DUMMOCRAPTS?
This just in. 11,000 people in a far left state like Washington object to McKenna protecting them from violation of their constitutional rights.
So what? Washington has nearly 7,000,000 people. The Facebook numbers are so insignificant as to be laughable.
However seeing Gregoire so angry yesterday was worth it, even if he is forced to drop the suit by our leftist governor and legislature. Which would be undue influence on an independent officer of law, if they were Republican. I guess the rules change when it’s your side doing the influencing.
Remember this commentary from Odumba over mandates? Well it’s now law. Puddy guesses Odumba was against mandates before he was for them.
Puddy still waiting for Auntie Witless to prove Rasmussen is %10 off?
Crickets chirping…
“Under the new law, insurance companies still would be able to refuse new coverage to children because of a pre-existing medical problem, said Karen Lightfoot, spokeswoman for the House Energy and Commerce Committee, one of the main congressional panels that wrote the bill Obama signed into law Tuesday.”
Does this mean house staffers are exempted from this worthless bill?
McKenna is right. This is a poor bill. Odumba is lying… again!
You dems are such hypocrites. If elected officials can only do what the majority wants, then we wouldn’t have the healthcare law we have today! Look at EVERY national poll on Real Clear Politics and you will see that the majority were AGAINST this healthcare bill prior to it being signed into law. Hypocrites!
Puddy and Robbie’s militia buddies are heading down the Tim McVeigh path http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US.....269393814/ I wonder if Robbie realizes he just uncorked a creepy little genie.
I can’t to see what Airhead Pudster Armed Resistance looks like on April 19th. He’ll be running into battle screaming “don’t let the guv’mint take away my guv’mint health insurance!!!”
Re 39
That’s why all the HA leftists have been ignoring the stupidity of this law. They don’t plan to keep it very long.
They must know making poor people more poor or criminals isn’t helpful to them. They don’t care.
They must know that the middle class will be faced with taxation on those same plans they are forced to buy. They don’t care.
They must know that insurance premiums will rise at a rate higher than if nothing had been done. Their CBO told them so months ago, as the effect of an insurance mandate. They don’t care.
If they don’t care how awful this law is it must be because they see it as a poison pill for insurance. They see it as a way to finally kill private insurance, and make single payer necessary.
That or they simply don’t understand English.
Just a thought. . . what if this starts an American Revolution????!!! Who would win? Gun-toting Conservatives or tree-hugging, liberal, gun-control advocates? LOL!!!
Sure. And when two hundred freaky teabaggers show up at an event you wingnuts get all orgasmic on us and tell us that the people have spoken.
Putty says he will denounce racist talk now? After we were treated to years of his disgusting, racist right wing commentary?
God, that guy is weird.
@47 Sun Tzu says, “Go for it, fool”.
Max,
Got Proof? You can even ask the arschloch for help. You’ll be the first fool!
IGNORANUS!
Whatamoron!
Max@45 you are truly a moron.
It was Lee of the HA Libtardo Leaders who once said you can’t hold others responsible for the acts of one.
You are JUST TOO STUPID and TOO MUCH AN IDIOT to remember this!
Glad to remind you of facts.
Whatamoron!
Hmm, I’m sure that Rasmussen will reveal that passage of HCR has been a disaster for our President’s approval ratings.
3/24/2010 -11
3/23/2010 -10
3/22/2010 -12
3/21/2010 -16
3/20/2010 -21
3/19/2010 -21
Huh?
Spin that, KLOWN.
Serious question to all you leftists. How far left is too left for you? Understanding that the farthest left is communism and the farthest right is fascism.
The Facebook group is up to 12,012 members now.
[Deleted]
@ 38 –
Twice today you’ve lumped me in with the righties. @ 9 I pointed out that the Republicans were tilting at windmills:
@ 30 I pointed out that James Edwards, who has had prominent righties like the Buchanans, John Derbyshire and Jeremy Corsi on his show, is an unapologetic racist who links healthcare reform to the alleged oppression of the white race in his disturbed musings. And one of the jackasses you lumped me in with doesn’t comprehend how that can possibly be construed as racist. I’m unsure how you got the impression I was trolling for the right, but please distance yourself from the mistake. Thanks.
Pudd:
We don’t have to prove anything. Your side lost. We won.
Your side had their chance and chose war, big brotherism and financial collapse.
The American people voted you out.
Now we get to try some things, like spending the money here at home helping people rather than spending it abroad blowing things up and killing people.
Sorry, them’s the rules now.
Get over it.
Sorry Worf,
my apologies
re 56
We’ll see. Not a single Republican will be responsible for the disaster this law will be. And I think you’re underestimating the independence and freedom love of Americans. I think that telling them where and how to spend money they earned will cause Obama some problems.
Fall will tell.
Actually folks–
The person in deep shit is Lisa Brown for threatening Budget repercussions on a Constitutional legal matter.
If you notice, Gregoire has backed down on the hot rhetoric, is not getting involved in the threats and talking about filing her own brief.
The problem with that is Gregoire has a history of missing deadlines that cost us $17.8 MILLION.
Brown has crossed the line.
It’s ok for you LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWNS to be shrill and scream and threaten not to vote for McKenna and set up websites…whatever.
What is NOT OK is for the electeds to do this…which Brown has already done.
Roger Rabbit KNOWS Brown crossed the line.
@59
Thank you.
More windmill tilting form sore loser John McCain:
U.S. Sen. Mark Udall and a Colorado state senator have gotten caught in the crossfire over health care.
A hearing Tuesday on Udall’s bill to protect communities from bark beetles was canceled after John McCain blocked it by using an obscure Senate rule requiring a unanimous consent to hold hearings scheduled after 2 p.m.
John McCain was his partner on legislation that would attempt to deal with the problem.
One of the witnesses set to testify at the hearing was Colorado state Sen. Dan Gibbs.
Udall says he hopes to get the hearing rescheduled this week.
Yes, John McCain objected to a hearing on bark beetles. Because of health care.
Majority Leader Reid added:
“Senator McCain’s promised obstruction comes to reality just a day later. ‘The Party of No’ wouldn’t even agree to let Senate committees meet today. Ironically, as they make false claims about transparency regarding health reform, they’re shutting down a committee hearing today on transparency in government.
“The bottom line is that as millions of Americans are learning about the immediate benefits of health reform, Republicans are throwing a temper tantrum and grinding important Senate business to a halt.”
Temper tantrum is a good word for it.
“They would not allow a single, solitary member of their party to vote for the package”
This will cost GOP candidates. Moderate voters (which is what most people are) will realize that Republicans put party ahead of constituents and country. The GOP just threw away the center of the electorate.
53. Steve spews:
No spinning required. There is always a “bounce” connected to any action. I’m surprised it wasn’t a much bigger bounce….like to -5 or so for a couple of days. But it’s not that yet.
Once things shake out in 2 weeks, let’s take another look at it…shall we?
That will be a better indicator.
Hey, it may be better…time will tell. Depends on how believable Obam-Mao is as he runs around trying to spin & sell this dogshit pile.
Oh and Steve–
Surprised you would post negative numbers from the very same poll that had Obam-Mao at +32 post-inauguration.
Are you proud of these negative numbers???
Seems like your bar is set a little low…like under ground!!!!
TOO
DAMN
FUNNY!!!!
@1 “The HA clock must be fast.”
I noticed that, too. The edit function, which never worked well in the best of circumstances, now times out before I post!
@8 “I bet he had STATE EMPLOYEE STAFFERS go over the newspaper comments in the Seattle Times, Tacoma News Trib, Olympian, Kitsap Sun, Bellingham Herald and such and interpreted the ratio to be reflective of the population.”
Nah. Repubs never fact-check anything. They merely fix (made-up) “facts” around the policy, then pull these “facts” out of their asses.
At Obama’s lowest appoval rating he was still more than twice as popular as the last President was when he at long last slinked out of office, leaving behind a divided nation, two wars and a shattered economy. You remember President Bush, don’t you? Hmm, I think the following quote was before you became a faux-libertarian. I can see how hindsight probably advises you to disown that wretched failure of a man.
The best smackdown of conservativism ever, with extensive and hilarious links.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsme.....php?ref=mp
So here’s what we have: HRC-style HCR that conned the OMB by gouging and extorting more than four years of taxes during a manic recession to make a downpayment on “benefits” (extra-constitutional mandates) that don’t trickle down until 2014.
Then the mandates begin. The young, healthy, and comparatively poor will be frogmarched into a system that requires them to subsidize the old, rich, and sick. Your 20-something kids, with barely enough discretionary income to afford the designer beer of their choice, will be forced to subsidize fat wheezing money-bags Rabbit.
But wait, we were told. Right here, only yesterday, we were told that HRC-style HCR is still a Very Good Thing because Obamacare gives care to kids right now.
Well ……
Typical bitched-up Big Government, in other words. Obamacare pukes on itself before it’s even out of the gate.
And before Dave Ross tries to tell you that Kate Cyrul’s report must have come from same teabagger terrorist on the militia’s lunatic fringe, it didn’t. It’s from Obama’s very own Tass, the Associated Press.
So to the tens of thousands of good old Americans and good illegal aliens who will die because they can’t get insurance before 2014, add another class to the anti-Obama class action that John Edwards must be ginning up at this very moment. Add the dead tiny tots who will die before 2014 from the reform that reformed them to death. You’ll be able to tell who they are by examining their death certs … Cause of Death: Obamacare and greedy insurance companies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7JNbauwGPY
I’m not sure I’ve witnessed, even on children’s playgrounds, such a sorry group of poor sports as are the wingnuts after losing the healthcare vote. Why do they hate democracy so much? After generations of bashing the courts, why do they now turn to the courts?
Can anyone confirm whether Governor Gregoire will be on Rachel Maddow tonight?
Re 70
Sorry Gordon, I’m a conservative and have trouble with this link.
Sharpton, while in many ways antithetical to everything I believe, disputed the claim of socialism. “First of all you’d have to say that Obama was a socialist,” he said. Basically he was dismissing the charge as without being worth his time.
Obama is a liar. He broke nearly every campaign promise he made. His philosophy is more suited to Europe than the US. It isn’t necessary to find spurious causes to dislike him when so many substantive ones exist.
12 February 2008
Mr. Ross:
Last week you said that right-wing radio wouldn’t dare or care to discuss the depths of our debt and economic quagmire. Because the right is mired in slow-motion suicide, you implied, it was up to a brave leftist truth-teller like you to tell the truth by talking to our Comptroller General, David Walker.
In fact, in January, Walker was on Beck’s right-wing radio show presented by your right-wing neighbor, KTTH. I blogged on Goldstein about the Walker interview. Because you were confused by Walker’s message, here’s the salient point: Unfunded obligations for Medicare are projected at $40 Trillion. With a T. That’s for the program that Senator Kennedy promised, 40 years ago, would run on a shoestring. He berated niggardly Republicans for hinting that Medicare, like every other federal entitlement, would soon be out of control. (NPR reported a few months ago that the waste-fraud-abuse portion of Medicare exceeds $70 Billion per year. With a B.)
In addition, the unfunded mandates of Social Security and of Bush’s Medicare drugs bring total unfunded obligations to more than $50 Trillion. Republicans made us pay a steep price for their inept attempt to buy Florida, and Bush lied about it.
Today you asked what portion of GDP is subsumed by the unfunded obligations. Wrong question. The correct question is what multiple of GDP.
Re 71
I can help you here. After Bush beat Kerry and Gore the left made childrens playgrounds look positively mature.
Partisanship is one thing, but you have to avoid the glass house if you’re going to throw stones.
The Facebook group is now at 12,330 members. Growing by 300 people an hour!
Re 75
Whoo hoo! By this time next year it might be an tiny percentage of the voters in Washinton! Power to the people!
Pay attention, Daddy. The steaming pile of unfunded liabilities that David Walker warned about are generational theft. Unsustainable entitlements are trickle-up extortion of the young. Their labor is trickling up to fat old greedy workless Rabbit.
Obamacare adds another unsustainable entitlement to the pile, with the same result: The young will carry fat Rabbit over the finish line until he’s finished.
And you didn’t or couldn’t answer the Waterloo-in-the-loo quiz: For five points and a gold star on your forehead, who said this in 1985?
[]A. Ronald(6) Wilson(6) Reagan(6)
[]B. Ludwig von Mises
[]C. Ludwig von Drake
[]D. Scrooge McDuck
[]E. Uncle Milton Friedman
[]F. Daddy Warbucks
[]G. Daddy Love
Answer: None of the above. The Dead Kennedy, the liberal lion himself, Edward Moore Kennedy said …
Is anybody willing to answer @54?
@76
By this time next year Mount Rainier might erupt and kill us all. Right now, the left has solid wins around the country in 2006 & 2008, we’ve passed healthcare, we’ve reformed the banking system, we’re closing up shop on an illegal and immoral war in Iraq.
The RNC is broke. The Republican’s have no hope of taking Patty Murray’s seat in the fall.
@78
Um… I would, but I voted for two Republicans in the last election so I don’t think I qualify as a “leftist.”
79
Murrays seat? (Or, one of the Washington Senators’ seats, since she really doesn’t own it.) They never did, with King County and Pierce setting terms for the rest of the state. I don’t think anyone questions that Western Washington is solidly democrat in voting trends, more’s the pity.
But don’t kid yourself. The new law is a sick joke of corporate welfare at the expense of the very people it claims to help.
Iraq bases look pretty permanent to me. We’ll see. In any case any surplus units not used in Iraq will be visiting paradisical Afganistan for a short year visit.
Banking is a game whose rules change to bribe the current crop of politicians. Again, don’t kid yourself.
The fall will tell whether solid Democrat wins are a generational shift or a blip caused by economic anxiety. I can’t honestly say I know.
@79
I’m not sure. The Real Clear Politics poll shows that Patty Murray’s seat is safe if she runs against Benton (Murray +11), but if she runs against Rossi it shows Rossi with a +3
So if McKay’s bid is an attempt to crowd out the potential tea-bag opposition, that leaves one to wonder: who, besides Rossi, would be his potential competitors?
Personally, I don’t see Rossi doing it a third time around. He just doesn’t have the stomach for politics in general. He insists on being surrounded by people who keep assuring him that he’s great and that he will easily win over the “devil-lady Gregoire”. When voters insist on questioning his views, his budget calculations, and seek to reconcile his inconsistent statements, he just petulantly cuts off communication except in carefully controlled circumstances where he’s always in front of a friendly audience. He seems quite offended that voters would question why he would make a good governor. It was pretty painful to watch, there in the end of the last election. I doubt he’s willing to jump back into that battle.
Which is more the pity, because under the “top two” primary system, if McKenna doesn’t have any significant opposition, he stands a pretty good chance of making it on the final ballot. The Democrats, of course, will likely follow their usual system of not really having an organized political party, and there will be three or four of them running in the primary and splitting the votes between them – especially if Gregoire decides not to run again.
So just for fun – if Gregoire, Rossi, and McKenna are out of the picture for one reason or another, who’s a likely contender from each party?
@83
J.P. Patches!
“Is anybody willing to answer @54?”
Sure, I’ll give it a stab. If we keep it confined to economics, the farthest left is anarchism (no state, no property relations). The farthest right would be libertarianism (absolute “free market” private property fetishism). Both of these factions comingle a utopian social outlook with a desire for more sex and legal drugs. Both have an abiding distrust of state monopoly on force, though the libertarians admit they need a state apparatus to enforce property rights.
Fascism, as actually practiced, is a form of the melding of extreme nationalism with corporatism–a kind of authoritarian thuggery mixed with right wing populism. But for the sake of simplicity let’s put is somewhere out on the right fringe.
Communism in practice, I am ashamed to admit, is untrammeled state power serving a small elite claiming to rule in the name of the ‘working class’–they are authoritarians, too. But in all fairness, put them on the left somewhere.
Moving toward the center left, you have socialists. They favor state ownership of property.
On the right you have various forms of religious theocracy (some Catholics, the Mormons before statehood, some right wing fundamentalists, extremist Muslims, Hindoos, etc. They all seem to share this urge).
Then you have royalists….don’t see much of them any more.
Our two major political parties are two branches of the same tree: They espouse private property, “free markets”, etc. They both support American exceptionalism and corporate power. They differ on minor details about the distribution of income and social programs, but these differences are, in fact, rather superficial although you would not know that from reading the comments here!
@84: There ya’ go. Real non-partisanship. It seems he is still out there clowing around at 82.
Notice how Auntie Witless and Proud Goatist run away from questions?
Typical so typical.
@82: Please cite the Rasmusson poll anywhere at any time showing Rossi losing to anybody.
Rossi +3 over Murray? Beyond ridiculous. That’s some kind of joke, right?
I have an idea regarding polls that may make the Republicans/Teabaggers/Conservatives happy.
Why don’t we just follow the Constitution and have a vote this fall and let the governed decided if we should keep HCR as is, or repeal it as the GOP wants.
Because for the last two election cycles we put forth our idea to the American People regarding HCR and they overwhelming voted (ie showed their support at the polls) for our Liberal, Demcoratic agenda.
That work for everyone?
Now, will someone in the Conservative leaership please tell the radical right-wing domestic terrorists who are issuing threats of violence, vandaliziing Democratic offices, yelling racial slurs (like the way Mr. C tells Nigger jokes), homophobic slurs, spitting on our congressional leaders who fought for civil rights, bombing federal buildings, and flying private airplanes into federal buildings, to start acting like Patriotic Americans instead of Islamic Terrorists.
You mean, they have the most votes, by virtue of having the largest share of the the state’s population?
Why do you hate democracy?
@85
I’m sorry. . . I’m not being sarcastic, but did you actually answer my question? Did you tell me how far left is TOO far for you?
Pudd:
We don’t have to answer your sophomoric questions or demands to prove something.
Your side lost. We won.
Your side had their chance and chose war, big brotherism and financial collapse.
You blew it.
The American people voted you out.
Now we get to try some things, like spending the money here at home helping people rather than spending it abroad blowing things up and killing people.
Sorry, them’s the rules now.
Get over it.
I’ll happily answer that question if it’s framed properly.
First off, communism is not to the left, it’s along the pathway towards fascism.
To the far extreme left is Liberty, i.e. Liberalism.
When you learn the meanings of root words, particularly those based in Latin, you’ll being to understand the world with a clearer understanding of what things really mean.
The RNC has done a masterful job of using fear mongering as a way to precondition your thinking to be a reactionary. At least, that’s the way they view their base of supporters as put out in the RNC’s fundraising materials.
Propaganda is to democracy as violence is to dictatorships. They are both tools to control their constituents.
Auntie Witless postulates
Butt Auntie Witless forgets how “he won“.
Notice all the bribes in Congress. Then you have the bribes in the Senate.
Butt Auntie Witless, why do your peeps have to wait until 2014? Start the benefits now! Harvard says 45,000 peeps will die a year until 2014 without health insurance. Ask checksez and correctnotright. Puddy is sure their surviving families are so glad “you won”.
No Pudd:
We know how we won.
You just forgot how you lost. Your side started two wars, implemented a domestic spying program, doubled the national debt and wrecked the economy.
So the good folks of the USA voted your team out of office, fair & square.
And you just can’t stand it. Now your team is out smashing windows and threatening people with violence.
Why do you hate our country so much?
@85: Sorry. I was trying to think through your “when did you stop beating your wife” frame, since any answer given would give credence to your underlying false premise that posits some kind of smooth continuum from “left” to “right”.
But if you insist on pegging folks: I tend toward anarcho-socialism if there is such a critter, in other words, a hapless idealist.
So how far right is TOO far right for you?
Hopefully you are somewhere to the left of Franco, a not quite as bloodthirsty fascist religeo-authoritarian as Hilter.
Puddnutz: “Start the benefits now!”
If the GOP had spoken in unison demanding this provision as a condition of support for the bill, they could have gotten it. So tell me political genius, why didn’t they?
Admit it. Your heros really fucked this one up.
A teabagger posts the wrong address and a Dem Congressman’s brother’s propane gas line is cut. Oops, wrong guy. Teabagger unapologetically calls it, “collateral damage”.
Hey, wingnuts, it’s only health care reform! You might want to save some of that batshit craziness of yours for immigration reform. Imposing our pinko-commie-fascist-socialist health care on you is just the beginning. Next up, we’re gonna force you fucktards to speak Spanish.
Puddy @ 94:
Not all portions of the LAW will be implemented immediately because it has to be done responsibly. But, some things do start this year, like annual caps, lifetime caps, denying coverage for pre-existing conditions. That will help reduce the death curve starting this year.
Had we followed the Republicans historical track record regarding HCR, i.e. “Just Say No”, all those people would continue dying year after year after year.
Far more than those fetuses which are aborted.
Your political actions against HCR has/is contributing to the deaths of 45,000 living, breathing human beings every year.
So, how do you square your stance against health care with your Christian pro-life principle?
If your guiding principle is the preservation of “life”, then you should be against abortion and FOR HCR.
It plainly obvious from your posts over the years your guiding principle is based on politics and not “life.”
This, is truly a failure of character on your part and, quite frankly, a little perplexing to me.
Perhaps you could rationally explain to me how you can merge the two stances and NOT violate your preservation of life principle which is very deeply rooted in your faith as you expressed many times.
Oh Auntie Witless, don’t pull that shit with Puddy. It’s your side who hates America.
Your side made two assassinate Bush movies and your libtardo MSM friends told the world how prescient those movies were. Your side has been doing this for years yet Auntie Witless forgot about it.
The Patriot Act is a domestic spy program? Do tell Auntie Witless… Guess who reauthorized it? Odumba did. Doubled the national debt… lets see…
National Debt as of:
January 2001 5,716,071,000,000
January 2009 10,632,080,000,000
5,716,071,000,000 X 2 = 11,432,142,000,000
Nope, not doubled Auntie Witless. In Three years Odumba will run up as much debt as GWB did in 8 years. Yep the trend is there already.
Butt Auntie Witless since you brought it up… when GWB and the Republicans had congress the debt went up 300-400 Billion a year. When the DUMMOCRAPTS got hold of congress it went up 500 Billion the first year and 1,017 Billion the second year. Very interesting Auntie Witless…
So why do DUMMOCRAPTS hate America so much?
So are you saying that Democrats hate America to the tune of $500 billion a year whereas your beloved Republicans have only $400 billion worth of America-hate going for them?
Yeah right GBS… Done Responsibly… HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
There are people out there right now under the impression this started yesterday. So there they 4 years of taxes before they start the programs.
No, start them now GBS. Peeps are dying at the tune of 45,000 a year is on YOUR HEAD. Why don’t you have that Catholic compassion on them GBS? What would the “pope” do? Demand the programs start now.
The bill allows for abortions GBS. Now your farting foolishly and the pellets are really smelling.
BULLSHITTIUM Alert… Puddy did not jock strap George Till The Baby Killer… You did GBS. Puddy proved from Tiller’s own words he personally exterminated 9200 viable third trimester babies. Puddy gave his direct quotes. Ask the arschloch for them GBS. You da big navy seal. You have the huevos. Ask the arschloch. Go on GBS, show Puddy you have huevos. End of BULLSHITTIUM Alert…
@99
If Puddy cared about the babies, he would be out there offering real help/services for those who are contemplating getting an abortion. Not just yelling at them from across the street.
Steve, you jump to some interesting conclusions. Auntie Witless claimed Puddy hated America. Auntie Witless used the debt argument. Puddy threw debt facts at Auntie Witless. Sometimes facts hurt the most moronic around us!
upchuck@103,
You have no idea what Puddy does with his charitable contributions so STFU fool! Puddy knows he gives more to poor peeps in one year than you do in five. It’s what Jesus espouses and what Proud Leftist forgets to implement.
For two wars one of which could be partially justified and the other TOTALLY UNJUSTIFIED, a new entitlement to buy the votes of seniors (which failed miserably) and give tax cuts to billionaires.
To keep the country from falling into abject depression started by???
GREEDHEAD-LOVIN’ RIGHT WING POLICIES..
If Rob is siding with the tea bag crowd I have news for him, they are not what someone in politics wants to be associated with today.
I have seen them in action, they walk around with signs depicting Obama as Hitler and shout racial bigotry.
Wrong!
You willfully ignored my points of things in the law that start now that will reduce deaths.
We tried to get them started nearly 100 years ago but your side has fought every step of the way and is continuing to block it at this very moment.
Why do you support politicians who are, as you’ve posted, allowing 45,000 people to die every year. How many millions of Americans have died because of your political ideology of being against Health Care as a basic human right instead of a privilege reserved for only those who can afford it?
Are you contacting your party members in congress right NOW demanding they stop attempts to stop this nonsense in the Senate? I have done so today.
If you haven’t then the blood is on your hands, and ultimately on your soul. You can “say” otherwise, but you know in your heart of hearts your stance against HCR is wrong.
So you’d rather let more living, breathing human beings die then the number of abortions this bill will allow for to be covered by federal funds. OK so you’re still allowing for more human suffering and death than abortions would account for. That’s on you, Bub. You have some soul searching to do, not me.
No Puddy, I did not murder Dr. Tiller in a house of worship. Nor did Dr. Tiller break the law.
While your side speaks from one side of their mouth saying they don’t want “Washington Bureaucrats getting between people and their doctors”, the truth is, that is exactly what the anti-abortion crowd is saying out of the other side of their mouths.
You still failed to square up with your conflicting core belief principles. I didn’t really believe you would attempt it. Because to do so would expose your hypocrisy.
EPIC FAILURE of principle, Puddy.
@105 ,, Puddy …
Where does Jesus say .. give money to my Church so IT can help the poor?????
Donating money through your Church is an act of piety. The Church may do good, but if the idea that a Church .. with its own agenda .. should be THE vehicle for charity were preached by Jesus, he owuld then have had to speak out for his followers to give to the Temple Priests! (You know those Roman syncophants?)
You mean a country where its government chooses to help its people over helping well-connected war profiteers.
Yep, those who STINK RIGHT…
He admitted to 9200 third trimester baby deaths. Those were his own words. Just because a libtardo jury let him off doesn’t prove he didn’t break the law. He admitted to it GBS. Why are you so dense today. Just because a jury didn’t find OJ Simpson guilty doesn’t mean he didn’t do it.
Regarding the 45,000 deaths per year, this is only since 2007 so don’t try that historical reference crap with Puddy. Your side passed the bill, butt delayed the real “caring effects” until 2014. Meanwhile 180,000 deaths are on progressive libtardo peeps hands, not Puddy’s.
EPIC FAIL again GBS!
Puddy,
You’re simply resorting to outright lies about the wreckless spending by Reagan Republicans that nearly brought America to her knees.
You LIE!
President Clinton stopped borrowing money. Actually started paying down the national debt to the tune of $500 billion per year and earmarked that money in the budget he gave to George W. Bush in his first year.
Reagan Republicans squandered that $500 billion per year plus ran the national debt over $11 trillion dollars. Every penny of that their squandering. That is theft and a tax they imposed of future generations of Americans.
George W. Bush, if you can remember the truth, used “off budget” “Emergency” budgeting games to hide real cost of the wars year after year after year. So the numbers you quote are NOT fully accounted for due the games Reagn Republicans were using managing the People’s money.
You also seem to forget who was the president when all the bailout money was asked for, George W. Bush.
President Obama, not wanting to lie about the true costs the Bush admin handed off to America reflected the REAL numbers in his budget.
YOU LIE, AGAIN!
Obama inherited the budget from Bush in 2009 with the $1.3 trillion dollare deficit spending.
Why do you feel so strongly about lying?
Heh. Rossi’s name for the Governor was “my opponent, the incumbent”…
Not once during the last mean-spirited campaign did he say her name..
Only, to his meager credit, after he lost..
He seemed relieved to be a real estate salesman again – putting a positive spin on a mouldering corpse of a campaign..
Puddy’s Teabagging … sucking noises as the last dregs of Lipton are sucked into the maw …
“The bill allows for abortions ,,,.”
Puddy, you’re wasting your breath. Arguing logic with people who refuse to think logically is pointless.
For 2 days now I’ve repeatedly shown why this unconstitutional law moves health care backwards for the very people it claims to help. Not one refutation of one point has been advanced. This is because they know they have no argument so choose to try to deflect attention from that fact. It’s a little like a child putting his hands in front of his eyes and assuming you can’t see him.
GBS,
Your arrogance blinds you to the essential flaws in your arguments.
No government program has ever been run responsibly. That’s a contradiction in terms, like military intelligence.
“How many millions of Americans have died?” Not one as a result of policy. Many as a result of personal choices regarding how to spend their money. If a person can afford to go out for a beer, have cable tv and a cell phone for every child over 6 they can surely afford a yearly physical. I have yet to be in the poorest home that doesn’t have/do all of these things. Puddy, you messed up allowing them to let the Harvard lie slide by.
“No Puddy, I did not murder Dr. Tiller in a house of worship. Nor did Dr. Tiller break the law.”
A side issue of no particular relevance to the main problems with Obamas bailout for health insurance. Still, Tiller was a disgusting human being. He deserved the death penalty, and in any half decent society would have gotten it. His murderer is just that. We don’t and shouldn’t allow vigilante justice. But to say you support that baby murdering bastard tells me exactly where your moral compass points.
SeattleJew, Good to see you here on the libtardo side again…
We support many children’s charities above Puddy’s church. We get monthly reports from the children we support. Ever heard of the Uganda’s Children Choir? You need to support them too SeattleJew. They did a tour of our churches in 2008.
Puddy always sees the “loons” appear when Puddy reminds libtardos how cheap they are with their money. For those progressive Moonbat!s who claim Christianity… what does it say in Matthew 25:35-40? You fools don’t do this. So Jesus has your answer in Matthew 25:41-46!
Also conflating what Puddy does through Puddy’s church and ADRA is nothing about the robber barons in the temple during Jesus’ time. Jesus kicked them out from making His Father’s House a den of thieves. Sorry dude, no comparison.
Puddy, here in America, and not the Islamic Laws you must be accustomed to every person is INNOCENT until proven guilty by a jury of their peers.
So, too, is it true for O.J. Simpson. Or are you saying the black people of the Simpson trial found him not guilty because the victims were white and the had a racial motive to let the black man get away with 1st degree murder?
Yeah, wouldn’t want any of those historcal facts to get in the way of your flacid arguement. And, you certainly are either unwilling or unable to take responsiblility for your actions that caused hundered of thousands of deaths since Hillary CARE. Right?
The blood is on your hands, the deaths are on your soul, the Final Judgement will be against you – not me.
If you got your way how many more deaths would be on your hands, Puddy?
How much blood would be spilled into the future, Puddy?
How long would you let it go before you realized you’re responsible for more than those 180,000 deaths, Puddy?
These are YOUR actions. YOUR responsiblity.
Lost, Tiller did it 9200 times and that doesn’t phase GBS, WHAT-SO-EVER!
@Gordon I dont have time to sit here reading all these comments, I have REAL WORK to do. Unlike obviously ‘Gordon’ who calls himself a ‘conservative’
this tree hugging liberal wants everyone to pay their dues. The poor receive social services, the rich can afford to pay for health care and the middle, like me, gets screwed.
The last administration declared war and left us with an 8 trillion dollar deficit. Businesses have been closing since, people losing their homes….
That may be YOUR vision of utopia, not mine. A majority
agreed by voting for Obama, most of you have been sulking since. Like a bunch of kindergarten kids, kicking and screaming and throwing your tantrums spreading your propaganda. Rush, Beck, Palin gave you the OK to take your rants to the streets. We are watching you. You are a disgrace.
I have seen your bigotry, I saw it every time I attended a Health Reform rally, across the street you stood shouting bigoted remarks holding signs with Obama depicted as Hitler.
‘Conservatives’ want to legislate on every inch of a woman’s womb but after a child is born you scatter like cockroaches and deny health care.
You are not being forced to purchase anything, that is unconstitutional. Those who can afford it and dont buy it will be taxed. Its high time the rest of us stop paying for emergency room visits for your colds.
You dont like it leave or make sure none of you and yours receives any social services; social security, medicare…do you like the lights on at night in your street? Your snow plowed? Your pot holes filled? Those are part of social services too, in case you forgot.
“like military intelligence”
Huh? Hate America much? Or did you mean military music?
Re120
Couple of problems with your post-
Calling everyone you disagree with rascist on account of a few nuts is stupid. I don’t assume everyone on the left smokes dope because a few do, or is promiscuous because a few are.
When a woman chooses to become pregnant she chooses the costs that come with it. Unless she is my wife that really isn’t my problem. Birth control is widely and inexpensively available. Use it or accept the consequences of your choices.
I am being forced to purchase a financial product. Just because a ready made collection system in the IRS is used as a tool for collecting fines does not make them taxes. This is an egregious assault on my right to decide for myself how or if to spend my money.
The commons aren’t usually construed to include cradle to grave nanny state care. That’s a liberal misconception. Yes we agree to collectively pay for some services. We accept the fundamental ineffiencies in this mechanism for collective benefit. That doesn’t mean everything ought to be done that way. Especially when the top few are ‘collectively’ asked to pay for the rest.
Name a couple of wars.. Right wingers seem to love those..
But don’t mention Bosnia.. What were the American casualties? Two?? Zero??
A day later:
Washington Tax Payers OPT OUT of Rob McKenna’s lawsuit
13,146 members
Rob McKenna’s plan to sue over health-care law 531 members
BWAHAAAA!!!!
Right where Bart Stupak first identified it SeattleJew.
Right here SeattleJew.
Death of a President. The director called the movie DOAP on purpose. Kill Bush now… Multiple youtube movies calling for the assassination of Bush. You also forgot the Kill Bush game cheered by your loony leftist friends… And of course all the Kill Bush posters you have as friends SeattleJew…
Did you miss the CBO report SeattleJew?
The Health Care bill has bribes going to Miss and Alaska? Show Puddy where…
That’s the DNC MSNBC talking point from early Monday morning!
‘When a woman chooses to become pregnant she chooses the costs that come with it….. Birth control is widely and inexpensively available. Use it or accept the consequences of your choices.’
Several problems with your statement
‘Unless she is my wife that really isn’t my problem.’
Someone else’s womb should not be your concern in the first place.
If she is your wife, it is still HER womb but what ever child, if yours, is born from it IS. If she allows you to regulate over her womb that is her problem, not mine.
Birth control is NOT always effective.
Have you forgotten rape? Incest? Abuse?
Obviously. But what did I expect anyway.
Back to work.
@93
I’m sorry GBS, but your view of the political spectrum is not the usually accepted view. As Wikipedia and other resources state:
“Traditionally, the Left includes: progressives, social liberals, social democrats, socialists, communists and anarchists[2][3][4][5] while the Right includes: conservatives, reactionaries, monarchists, nationalists and fascists.[6]”
So, I’ll rephrase my question, “Using the most widely accepted political scale, wherein communism is left and fascism is right, how far is too left for you?”
@127
It’s not HER womb that I’m concerned about. It’s the individual person that temporarily occupies her womb, at the moment. This individual person, unlike every other part of the WOMAN’S BODY, does not share her DNA. This individual has its own unique DNA from conception.
Those of you who wish to OPT OUT of Rob McKenna’s lawsuit cannot. He’s filing on behalf of Washington, whether you like it or not. He was elected; and unlike the Governor, Representatives and Senators, is not swore to uphold the will of the people; it’s completely about whether something is lawful or not. And I find it hypocritical that you are up in arms when Rob McKenna does something that is not the will of the majority of Washingtonians; but, the House, Senate and President CAN, and its okay for them. Go to Real Clear Politics and you will see that every national poll showed that an overwhelming majority was against the health care bill before it was put into law; but, the dems on Capital Hill didn’t care.
“something that is not the will of the majority of Washingtonians”
Hmm, that must be the “real” Washingtonians, kinda like the “real Americans” Lost blathers on about.
Not really interested in getting off on a side topic, but your misstatements beg for it.
A ‘womans’ womb’ is not my business or that of the state. A human life is that of the state and mine as a participant in the state. Unless you can categorically prove life isn’t present in the womb, you have no right to kill it. And you know, you can’t. That’s why the whole pointless ‘trimester’ and ‘viability’ discussion in Roe, among the worst decided Supreme Court cases on record.
But philisophically what you’re saying is that a child loved by its’ mother is a life, otherwise it’s a fetus? Interesting dichotomy.
Leaving my marital relations aside as non-relevant (I mentioned wife out of reflex as the woman who would be bearing my children) the life of my child is my business, whatever you mistakenly think.
The instances of rape causing a pregnancy are a sticking point. In these many women (70% by the only study done on the topic) choose to carry the child to term. In the remainder an abortion does not cancel the rape or abuse. It doesn’t heal the woman. But primarily you are talking about such an insignificant percent of abortions as to make it invalid for public policy purposes.
Birth control isn’t always effective? That’s a risk to being sexually active a woman should account for in her decisions. And this justifies murder how?
I know many people who are moral and decent folks who sanction abortion. How they convince themselves that mass infancticide is somehow justified by a womans’ choice to murder still baffles me.
Sorry Gordon, but despite what Wikipedia may say, the Latin root words for Liberty and Liberalism are, in fact, one in the same.
Liberty, however far to the left it may be for you, is never too far to the left or too much for us freedom loving Liberals.
How far is too far to the right for social conservatives? Slavery? Interracial marriage? Poll Tax? Women’s rights? Gay rights?
ordon @ #130 said: “He was elected; and unlike the Governor, Representatives and Senators, is not swore to uphold the will of the people;…”
Huh? What does that statement really mean?
Are you trying to argue that the Attorney General took a different oath of office from the Governor? Under RCW 43.01.020, they all take the same oath of office:
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution and laws of the state of Washington, and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of the office of (name of office) to the best of my ability.”
RCW 43.01.020
@133
GBS. . . If you believe the farthest left on the political scale is just Liberty, then I’m not going to even debate the issue, because you’re not on the same mental page as everybody here. I haven’t found any political scale that shows extreme left as being “Liberty”. It sounds nice, but sorry. . . I’m not buying it.
Using your methodology, the far right would be “together preserving, guarding and protecting”, if you break down the latin roots for the word conservative. Sounds nice doesn’t it.
#134
You’re right. I shouldn’t have included the Governor; just the reps and senators. They are to uphold the will of their consituents. My bad.
Maybe Gordon wants to be Captain of the Wingnut Womb Squad, investigating the life status of blastocysts in any American womb. He could even issue Social Security numbers and conception certificates to our little American blastocyst citizens.
Dr. Tiller’s career spanned more than 20 years.
In that same time period how many HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of humans died because of your opposition to health care?
The blood of living breathing human beings who died are on your sould, Puddy.
You forget, it’s our side that’s been trying for nearly 100 years to get health care for all.
It’s people like you who have been killing humans at 10 times the rate of Dr. Tiller.
NOT a word from you? How telling of your flawed moral principles you claim is holier-than-thou’s.
Yours is clearly a principle based on the RNC’s anti-human life position because Democrats thought of the idea first.
Hmmmm. Liberty; like the liberty to choose whether or not to purchase health care? Since when can we equate forcing the nation to do something is not infringing on their liberty?
@138
Don’t worry Puddy. At least GBS acknowledged that your principles are MORAL, unlike the democrats, who throw morals out the door.
Sigh.
129. Gordon spews:
‘@127 It’s not HER womb that I’m concerned about. It’s the individual person that temporarily occupies her womb, at the moment. This individual person, unlike every other part of the WOMAN’S BODY, does not share her DNA. This individual has its own unique DNA from conception.’
It is NOT a person until it is born. It has no rights. The woman on the other hand, does. I know that is difficult for you to wrap your brain around but please try.
You may keep your wife in shackles, maybe even barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen fetching you your beers and slop but you do not speak for me or my womb.
130. Gordon spews:
‘Those of you who wish to OPT OUT of Rob McKenna’s lawsuit cannot. He’s filing on behalf of Washington, whether you like it or not….’
Earth to Gordon, Earth to Gordon!
Gregoire is filing a counter suit, great, more taxpayer money down the drain but what other choice does she have?
First of all, this lawsuit doesnt stand a chance, he is using tax money to >>>fund his campaign<<<
Anyone who believes otherwise I have Florida swampland for sale.
@139
I get my health insurance though where I work and our policy with our insurer states that everyone who works where I do must have insurance. If it’s not though them, you have to show proof of insurance else where in order to keep your job. This is a fairly common policy.
137. Steve Amen.
Gordon, you morals? HA! That will be the day.
Since when it is having morals to force someone into giving birth then running for the hills at the time the umbilical cord is cut?
Hypocrite!
Gordon @ # 136 said: “You’re right. I shouldn’t have included the Governor; just the reps and senators. They are to uphold the will of their consituents. My bad.”
If you are referring to members of the Washington State legislature, they take the same oath as the governor and the attorney general (the actual oath is not prescribed by law, but the same oath has been administered by tradition).
If you are referring to members of the U.S. Congress, they take the following oath, as prescribed by Article 6 the Constitution:
Please note that nowhere do the representatives pledge to uphold the “will of the people”, as you asserted, nor are their oaths significantly different from one another. The attorney general has no more right to claim greater authority by virtue of their oath of office than the governor or any representative does.
@ 144
I don’t understand how this is difficult for you to understand.
Every woman controls her body. She can refuse sex or practice safe sex until the moon falls into the sea. She has that choice and no-one is trying within the constraints of law to change that.
No person has the right to murder another for personal convenience or to satisfy your choice to do so. Absent conclusive evidence that that baby is not alive, that is precisely what abortion is. And no such evidence is possible.
Is it fair that women bear the onus? Probably not. But why an innocent unborn child should be murdered on that basis escapes me.
““I, (name of Member), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic” Wow. That means they all have to defend the country against Pelosi, Reid and Obama.
@144
Why would you say running for the hills at the time the umbilical cord is cut? You find me a woman who’s willing to let her little mistake live, and I’ll raise it, personally. I know it’s asking her to give up a lot (9 months of morning sickness, humility, etc.), but that’s not the child’s/fetus’s fault? Why must he/she die? Because he/she would become burdensome?
“She has that choice and no-one is trying within the constraints of law to change that.”
That one might not go over well with the chief wingnut.
“No person has the right to murder another”
I take that you’re ready to start trying, convicting, and either filling our prisons with women or executing them? What are you gonna do after overturning Roe v. Wade, license coathangers? Are gonna enlist Gordon as the official Wingnut Womb Cop? After all, he seems eager for the job.
@145
If they’re not supposed to uphold the will of the people, then who are they representing? They are a REPRESENTATIVE. Are you implying that the term Representative means that they are to “represent” the will of the minority of their constituents? Laughable.
@149
I volunteer for the job! JK
Don’t start with the coathanger argument. The proponents of Roe v. Wade already spilled the beans that they inflated numbers of the back alley coathanger abortions to push the Roe v. Wade legislation.
Using that argument, we should legalize pedophelia, and have it performed in a clinic, to administer pain medication to the child, etc. because we know that pedophiles are going to rape children.
@147 Why stop there? Round up a hundred million Americans and execute them all because you don’t believe that they’re “real Americans” and, judging by what you say here, enemies of the state. If you don’t go out and immediately do something about these America-hating enemies, what does that make you? A coward? Grab your gun, Lost, show some spine and start killing America’s enemies. Start now and you might have us all dead in a millinia or two.
@152
Careful. . . be careful what you kid about. Remember, Conservatives are usually gun-toting. Liberals are gun-control, pot-smoking hippies. Who would win in a revolution? LOL!
Oh YAY! Gordon has volunteered to take care of, feed, clothe, pay for the education, health…of every unwanted pregnancy in the USofA
Please provide America your name, address, phone, email address. We will gladly contact you shortly. Thanks! Now that’s what Im talking about, a right to lifer who is willing to put his money where his mouth is.
/sarcasm.
“Don’t start with the coathanger argument.”
Idiot. Go tell someone else what to do. Wingnuts – always ordering people around like we give a flyingmonkeyfuck about their stupid orders.
“because we know that pedophiles are going to rape children.”
You know, of course, that these days that thought of yours would be more accurately expressed as “because we know that Republicans are going to rape children”.
http://www.republicanoffenders.com/Pedophiles.html
Re 154
Here’s another. I clothe, feed, house and take general care of all the children my wife and I had. I’ve never asked for anyone else help to do so.
I fail to see where the choices of another mans’ wife or girlfriend incur an obligation in me though. Adoption agencies are chronically short of infants for loving families who want them.
And fundamentally the issue is choice. The problem with most liberals is that they won’t also accept the inevitably corollary, consequences. They want someone else to take the consequences for their choices, and that’s where I begin to have a problem.
Re 152
Geez Steve. You are full of spit and vinegar today.
Well, have a nice day. The dogs, kids and I are going hiking.
“Careful. . . be careful what you kid about.”
Kid you? Show up at my door and I’ll introduce you to an old, dear friend of mine, Mr. Detonics .451.
Wingnuts. They obviously never read Sun Tzu. Stay delusional, Gordon.
***HEAVY SIGGGGGGGHHHHH***
Gordon, Gordon, Gordon are you really this dumb or are you totally baffled by language? I mean, I get lost not understanding, but I had higher hopes for you.
You obviously haven’t read any portino of the bill so let me spell it out for you so you’ll:
A) Understand the whole HCR reform better and,
B) Why Rob McKenna is a fool.
If you’ve ever read the Constitution, nay, read and comprehended the Constitution you would know that the Constitution gives power to congress to levy taxes. Which you, as a citizen, are legally compelled to follow under penalty of law.
How HCR actually gets paid for are through the collection of taxes. IF you refuse to pay your tax, you will be fined.
The legal precedent for this goes all the way back to the signing of the Constitution.
That’s why Rob McKenna and the yum-yum AG’s like him will have their legal asses handed to them.
That’s why you WILL pay your tax or be fined.
Idiot.
Liberty and Liberalism are Latin words meaning freedom. We extend, or more aptly put, desire and try to extend freedom and liberty to all.
Conservativism is on the opposite end of that spectrum. It is the preservation of the status quo.
OK, gather around we’re going to get things down to your level. Ready for a reading of My Pet Goat.
‘156. lostinaseaofblue spews:
Re 154
Here’s another. I clothe, feed, house and take general care of all the children my wife and I had….’
Well, that’s mighty fine, honorable and responsible of you but how is that helping the woman who does not want to have a child?
Well, this proves my point at 159: Reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Because if it were, you’d obviously understand I’m bringing in to question Puddy’s conflicting morals.
Putz.
Well, well, well, it IS put up or shut up time, Gordon.
Here’s a link to finding out how you can adopt children; http://www.dshs.wa.gov/ca/adopt/index.asp
You prove you adopted one child after today’s date and I’ll kick you $5,000 cash.
Which is it Gordon; you’re a principled man or a lying piece of shit conservative?
Re 160
Try reading the whole post. Having discharged my obligation to my choice and that of my wife, I owe none to anyone else.
If a woman chooses to be sexually active her freedom to do so comes with consequences. She may become pregnant. She may contract an STD. While feeling badly for the position she put herself into, I feel no financial obligation to her, and society certainly owes none. She is free to support that child with or without the fathers’ support. What she is not morally free to do is commit murder due to her inconvenience, whatever the law may read.
Steve Steve Steve, WTF are you babbling about.
It’s your side who doesn’t get their way has a temper tantrum and runs to the courts to get orders. CA Prop 8 comes to mind. How the moronic leftists screamed about how the Mormon church got involved in the CA Prop 8 argument. How the moronic leftists attacked blacks and hispanics over their support for standard man-woman marriage.
You are a piece of work sometimes Steve.
“You are a piece of work sometimes Steve.”
And as a fellow piece of work (at times), you make for fine company, Puddy!
GBS, above you claimed
Then when Puddy delives the coup de grace of Tiller the Baby Killer’s own words of 9200 third trimester killings you farted…
So? He personally killed 9200 people GBS.
Puddy’s opposition to health care? Are you on Steve’s Stupid Solution now? Puddy thought he destroyed his last batch although some of the latest leftist libtardo commentary leads Puddy to believe someone hijacked the formula. Anyway, before you attacked Puddy over the Harvard study. Now you are a study “proponent”. So can you identify all the “deaths” supposedly caused by Puddy? Nope you DOPE!
The bill doesn’t even cover health care for kiddies with preconditions, yet house staffers and their families are exempt. And… the bill allows 45,000 per year to die for four years and this doesn’t bother GBS and his Catholic morals because the end always justifies the means when you are a leftist libtardo loony tune!
What a crock!
“If a woman chooses to be sexually active her freedom to do so comes with consequences. She may become pregnant. She may contract an STD. While feeling badly for the position she put herself into, I feel no financial obligation to her, and society certainly owes none.”
It’s the woman, huh, not the man? You never mention the male. It’s all the woman’s fault. And her doctor. Murderers. How revealing.
A million blastocysts murdered each year and all you can do is sit on your ass whining about it. I take it that you would only sit on your ass and whine if a million 10 year-olds were murdered each year? Or would that one get you off your ass?
“It’s your side who doesn’t get their way has a temper tantrum and runs to the courts to get orders.”
I knew they were having a temper tantrum but you say that Rob McKenna and the other AG’s filing suit are on my side?? I had no idea. And here I thought they were all crazy wingnuts pandering to teabaggers. My bad.
Puddy, Puddy, Puddy, @ 164:
Liberals try to use the system to legally get their way.
You guys stand at the captiol and yell Nigger and Rep. Lewis and spat upon him. You guys bring guns to political events, you guys YELL and scream at townhall meetings, you guys lied about “pulling the plug on grandma”, you guys posed under pictures of Nazi death camps, you guys bring sings saying “If Brown can’t solve the problem Browning can” you guys yell “faggot” at Rep. Barney, you guys . . .
Please there’s been enough ignorance to go around in this debate has gone way over the top with rhetoric, including your elected leaders. You can stop shilling and piling on any time now because YOU LOST.
The AG’s feel the bill goes against the Constitution Steve. When asked about this John Conyers made up Constitution crap. This is sooooooo funny. This is the same fool who’s wife got 37 months in the pokey and threw a temper tantrum over being caught and sentenced. You DUMMOCRAPTS are a hoot and a half.
Illegally, Puddy? He performed 9,200 late term abortions illegally?
Do you have any proof he committed those crimes or are you citing hearsay?
“end always justifies the means”
If the end doesn’t justify the means, then what does?
So can you identify all the “deaths” supposedly caused by
PuddyGBS? Nope you DOPE!No worries, you can rail against me for being Catholic, for trying to prevent the deaths of 45,000 humans per year, and untold numbers of human suffering awaiting treatment and death. As the Lord’s pray says I’ll forgive your trespasses for you slighting my religion.
You’re already forgiven my brother, go in peace.
Where’s big mouth Gordon??
Adopting homeless kids I’m suuuuuuure at this very moment.
Gordon @ 153: Gee, I entered my first national sharpshooter’s competition at age 8. I’ve got the photo and the newspaper article somewhere at home. I know how to shoot a variety of weapons, but prefer bolt-action rifles for target shooting, and shotguns for home defense, and generaly eschew pistols. I don’t hunt because it’s silly – it’s a lot cheaper to just buy the meat at the store.
RR can teach you a thing or two about weapons, as well.
But hey, keep living with your delusional straw men. It makes for more fun.
“What she is not morally free to do is commit murder due to her inconvenience”
Morally it is none of your business. The forced birther movement is riddled with incoherence. Ask any of them what the punishment should be for this “murder” (once they stop yelling that is). Tells you all you need to know.
It’s all about controlling women’s uteruses.
What do demoncrats and republicants have in common?
Answer: nothing
Gordon @ 150 said: “If they’re not supposed to uphold the will of the people, then who are they representing? They are a REPRESENTATIVE. Are you implying that the term Representative means that they are to “represent” the will of the minority of their constituents? Laughable.”
Allow me to remind you that it was YOU who said @ # 130:
I simply pointed out that your premise is wrong, the oath of the Attorney General, the Governor, and the Representatives and Senators of the State of Washington all take the same oath, one that is not very different from the one taken by members of the U.S. Congress, and none of them “swore to uphold the will of the people”.
If you want to revise your premise, fine. Sometimes I make mistakes, too. But don’t get offended when someone corrects you.
Some day you and I will have to answer to God for our good and bad accomplishments and decisions. If you don’t believe in God, well… I hope for your sake you’re right, or I hope that you truly believe in your cause, whether dem or repub. I’m neither.
Hey, if I thought McKenna seriously believed that the HCR violated the Constitution, regardless of the merits of the argument, I would give him a pass. Everybody’s entitled to be wrong at one time or another.
But I don’t believe he’s serious. The issue is not really in much doubt – you don’t have to be a legal scholar to figure this one out, anybody who’s passed the bar could do so, and quite a few who haven’t even been to law school, but know how to read case law. The timing of it is simply too convenient to be assured of any motive other than a political one.
163. lostinaseaofblue spews:
‘….whatever the law may read.’
and there it is, the law, that little inconvenience between you and your beliefs.
Enough said.
Re 181
Yes. Slavery was the law once. A man could be sent to America or Australia for a small debt under the law once. Divine right right of kings once was the law.
Roe is unfortunately settled law. A court will likely never overturn that terribly decided precedent. This is unfortunate for the law in general, as it sets an appallingly low standard for court decisions. It is unfortunate for the country as well.
Law and justice are unfortunately not inseperable.
And I note you answer not one of the real points. This is because, I assume the NOW or NARAL websites don’t contain the answers. Look harder. You still won’t find anything, but it might amuse you.
Re 180
The timing is awfully suspicious. A bad and unconstitutional law is passed and he joins in a suit challenging it.
Someone call Oliver Stone.
[comment deleted at author’s request]
Re 184
And you have a pleasant evening as well.
God, the instinctive personal attack when a liberal has nothing substantive to say is hilarious.
Dont lump all of us libs together blue.
The Founding Fathers on Redistribution of Wealth. . .
“To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.” — Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816
“A wise and frugal government… shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.” — Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801
“I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” — Thomas Jefferson
“Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.” — Thomas Jefferson
Commercial break: Steve Sailer: Half-Blood Prince (PDF), an online book to be sold in paperback soon
“The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If ‘Thou shalt not covet’ and ‘Thou shalt not steal’ were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free.” — John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, 1787
“With respect to the two words ‘general welfare,’ I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.” — James Madison in a letter to James Robertson
In 1794, when Congress appropriated $15,000 for relief of French refugees who fled from insurrection in San Domingo to Baltimore and Philadelphia, James Madison stood on the floor of the House to object saying:
“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” — James Madison, 4 Annals of Congress 179, 1794
“[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.” — James Madison
“Wherever the real power in a Government lies, there is the danger of oppression.” — James Madison
“If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions.” James Madison, “Letter to Edmund Pendleton,” — James Madison, January 21, 1792, in The Papers of James Madison, vol. 14, Robert A Rutland et. al., ed (Charlottesvile: University Press of Virginia, 1984).
“An elective despotism was not the government we fought for; but one in which the powers of government should be so divided and balanced among the several bodies of magistracy as that no one could transcend their legal limits without being effectually checked and restrained by the others.” — James Madison, Federalist No. 58, February 20, 1788
“There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.” — James Madison, speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 16, 1788
“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin
“I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it.” — Benjamin Franklin
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety.” — Benjamin Franklin
“The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.” — Benjamin Franklin
I would like to disassociate myself from any remarks made by Chris Stefan.
Wasn’t Sam Adams a failure as a brewer?
117. Puddybud is Sad my friend died spews:
As it happens a good friend of mine just returned from Uganda. People die there all the time because they have NO money for drugs. The major cause of death of children is a form of lymphoma that curable HERE. The drugs in Uganda cost .. $50.
Do you really think Jesus would want you to support a children’s choir to worship him rather than saving a few lives?
YOU still avoid my question. Did Jesus say to give $$ to his “church?”
You REALLY need to re-read your bible. The people he is said to kick out were the moneychangers. These were required by law to doi their thinbg in the Temple courtyard.
You still have NOT answered my question. Where did Jesus say to give money to him rather than to the Temple (as was then required by law)?
Puddy, for someone who claims to espouse the charitable side of Christianity a side I admire you seem to be very uncharitable except when it comes to helping people join YOUR church.
Seems loike you need a good dose of Jezuss.
@187 SamAdams ..
Quotes out of context are pretty useless.
Here are a few actions of the folks you cite:L
Jefferson and Franklin both advocated FREE. govt supported education.
Madison argues that the Federal Government did not have the power to raise an army.
Franklin advocated free public hospitals.
Jefferson used tax money to buy the West from Nappy. (With no congressional authorization).
Sam Adams considered wealth a bad thing and was VERY incensed at the money grabbing of John Hancock.
@184
Eesh. I’m all for taking the gloves off, but that’s overly personalized and taking things a bit too far.
Puddy is pretty weak on his Biblical Scholarship. He gets his theology from the pulpit. They have convinced him that giving to the church is a “charitable contribution” and he should feel good about it. In fact his church is just another for profit business, cynically preying on Puddy’s mindless faith and guilty conscience.
Giving money to the Uganda’s Children’s Choir falls into the same category
Sam @ 187: And verily I say unto thee, that our noble forefathers, many of them slave owners, having expounded on the baseness of ‘wealth distribution’ did embark on a decades long theft of land from the natives (and neighboring nations), not unaccompanied by no little amount of willful slaughter of innocents and brutal dispossession whereupon they were lauded by their ancestors as the wisest of wise men…and bequeathed the accolade, The Founders. And God looked down upon this and judged it to be good and washed in the Blood of the Lamb and there was rejoicing in the land of New Canaan for verily, though Christ said the meek shall inherit the earth, our Founders, in their Infinite Wisdome, judged this not to be exactly the case.
@185
Apologies are in order. Fanatics of either political stripe tend to make political opinions personal and react accordingly. Not just liberals.
Sorry for painting liberals with too broad a brush.
@185
Apologies are in order. Fanatics of either political stripe tend to make political opinions personal and react accordingly. Not just liberals.
Or perhaps Chris was having a bad day. If taking it out on an anonymous poster means he goes home in a better mood alls well that ends well.
Sorry for painting liberals with too broad a brush.
GBS farts
GBS Puddy played his words for all on this blog. His words GBS. Puddy has said this three times. His words. He bragged it! The arschloch has the evidence on his personal HA blog copy if you choose not to search!
GBS, Jesse Jackson Jr taped the walk. He hasn’t coffed up the “tape” as proof. Breitbart has offered $10,000 to UNCF if there is video/audio evidence. No one has coffed up the tape. Chicago thug politics always place their peeps to scream epithets in opposition crowds. Known fact GBS. Where is the evidence? No one has seen/heard it.
Auntie Witless,
You are a mindless moron. Puddy reads his Bible. What do you do besides leaving dust on your Bible? You have no clue dude.
See ya moron!
SeattleJew
Malachi 3:8: “Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. “But you ask, ‘How do we rob you?’ “In tithes and offerings. You are under a curse–the whole nation of you–because you are robbing me. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the LORD Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.”
So SeattleJew.. what is the storehouse except the church?
Puddy knows you are referring to:
Numbers 18:20: “The LORD said to Aaron, “You will have no inheritance in their land, nor will you have any share among them; I am your share and your inheritance among the Israelites. I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting. From now on the Israelites must not go near the Tent of Meeting, or they will bear the consequences of their sin and will die. It is the Levites who are to do the work at the Tent of Meeting and bear the responsibility for offenses against it. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. They will receive no inheritance among the Israelites. Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the LORD. That is why I said concerning them: ‘They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.’ The LORD said to Moses, Speak to the Levites and say to them: ‘When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the Lord’s offering. Your offering will be reckoned to you as grain from the threshing floor or juice from the winepress. In this way you also will present an offering to the LORD from all the tithes you receive from the Israelites. From these tithes you must give the Lord’s portion to Aaron the priest. You must present as the Lord’s portion the best and holiest part of everything given to you.’ Say to the Levites: ‘When you present the best part, it will be reckoned to you as the product of the threshing floor or the winepress. You and your households may eat the rest of it anywhere, for it is your wages for your work at the Tent of Meeting. By presenting the best part of it you will not be guilty in this matter; then you will not defile the holy offerings of the Israelites, and you will not die.’
But then there is the verses in Deuteronomy…
Deuteronomy 14:28: At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year’s produce and store it in your towns so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.
Deuteronomy 26:12: When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the Levite, the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied. Then say to the LORD your God: “I have removed from my house the sacred portion and have given it to the Levite, the alien, the fatherless and the widow, according to all you commanded. I have not turned aside from your commands nor have I forgotten any of them.”
In the New Testament which you don’t recognize…
2 Corinthians 9:1: There is no need for me to write to you about this service to the saints. For I know your eagerness to help, and I have been boasting about it to the Macedonians, telling them that since last year you in Achaia were ready to give; and your enthusiasm has stirred most of them to action. But I am sending the brothers in order that our boasting about you in this matter should not prove hollow, but that you may be ready, as I said you would be.
For if any Macedonians come with me and find you unprepared, we–not to say anything about you–would be ashamed of having been so confident. So I thought it necessary to urge the brothers to visit you in advance and finish the arrangements for the generous gift you had promised. Then it will be ready as a generous gift, not as one grudgingly given. Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. As it is written: “He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor; his righteousness endures forever.” Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. You will be made rich in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God. This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of God’s people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God. Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.
Hebrews 6:20: where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek. Hebrews 7:1: This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, his name means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace. Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever. Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder! Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people–that is, their brothers–even though their brothers are descended from Abraham. This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater. In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor. If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come–one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
Offerings…
Romans 12:13: “Share with God’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.”
So much for Auntie Witless and his Bible attack. See ya moron!
Auntie Witless,
When the Tsunami hit did you give? Crickets are chirping…
When Katrina hit did you give? Crickets are chirping…
When Haiti was hit did you give? Crickets are chirping…
Do you give to aids causes in Africa? Crickets are chirping…
Do you sponsor multiple kids in far away lands? Crickets are chirping…
See ya later Auntie because you are ABSOLUTELY witless!
For those who don’t know… most of the Ugandan choir kids are orphans or at-risk kidsand they represent other orphans and at-risk African kids…
Proves again Auntie Witless and SeattleJew need to step up to the plate and check out other activities besides the leftist libtardo web sites.
Puddy,
You don’t present the face of Christianity very well. I wish you would quit trying to act as the voice of Christians. Uganda is just about the most anti-gay country in the world right now, inspired to become so by rightwing groups claiming to be Christian. Please quit trying to portray your views as Christian, Puddy.
Actually, I think Puddy represents “the face of Christianity” quite well.
Both Puddy and that “face” are not a pretty sight.
Uncle Witz @ 204
I am a Christian, as I have stated many times here. I recognize that my religion has been twisted here in this country to make it look fascist, nationalistic, and hateful. The same has happened with Judaism and Islam, recently. It is simply an upturn in people who are scared of change. I think you probably know that. What is expressed as religious dogma is often really just fear.
Cynical, lost, Puddy–they are first and foremost political creatures. They fit their religious beliefs around their political beliefs. Scripture is secondary to rightwing political screed. Not that they would ever recognize or acknowledge such. But, such is true.
It’s a “face” that, like Puddy, is constantly thumping its Bible, proclaiming its righteousness, and castigating others for their misfortune.
Jesus would weep if he knew what had been done in his name.
Proud:
Your definition of a “Christian” must be very different than mine or Puddy’s. It’s pure poison to me, wrapped with a cute sugar coating.
Believe it if you like, but personally, I think you’d be better off with Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. Neither of those two mythologies has provoked many wars.
And both are far more plausible than the Biblical account of Jesus.
Re 207
In any collection of human beings you’ll find hypocrites, general rotters and folks you simply don’t like. Judging Christianity by it’s advocates is like judging a lunatic assylum by the patients. It may be doing very good work and the patients may need the care, but it isn’t pretty to watch on occasion.
Having said that, I’m uninterested in a theological debate on the merits of the Bible, Quran or any religious text. (Indeed, the Bible is the only one I’m even partly qualified to discuss at all.) You have every right to believe as you wish.
Re 205
Think what you will. I’m not aware that you’re in a position to judge my Christianity any more than I yours though.
Well, off to bed and then to my cabin for a few days. No internet there so, while I’m sure you’ll all miss me dreadfully, you’ll just have to muddle along.
Ciao.
@207
Poor Unkl Dim Witz. . .
I’m not so sure we should dismiss the attempt to clarify the limits of what government can make us buy. If the republicans get back into power, do we really want them to have unlimited power to make us buy anything they decide we should have? I don’t think that’s a good idea.