Over on their editorial board blog, the Seattle Times’ Bruce Ramsey calls me out for calling out Susan Hutchison for her connections to the Discovery Institute and their Christianist, anti-science campaign to foist so-called Intelligent Design theory on unsuspecting school children.
Oh, come on. I don’t buy the argument from design, and once compared it to the fabulist Erich von Daniken. But Discovery does lots of things, from stuff on Russia to passenger trains. Discovery was the initial backer of the bored tunnel to replace the Alaskan Way Viaduct—an idea now endorsed by Ron Sims, Greg Nickels and Christine Gregoire. Funny how our progressive pundits missed the chance to make fun of that idea by talking about Intelligent Design.
Oh Bruce… why are you always picking on me? When have I ever said an unkind word about your publication?
But if you’re gonna pick on me, the least you could do is pick your spots a little more carefully, for I’m pretty sure I’ve never missed a chance to make fun of Discovery by talking about Intelligent Design. Indeed back in December of 2007, when the deep bored tunnel idea was first raised, I ridiculed Discovery in a post titled “Intelligent Transportation Design,” writing:
[T]he folks at the Discovery Institute are a bunch of fanaticist nutcases “visionaries”… you know, if by “visionary” you mean promoting Intelligent Design, seeking to overthrow the scientific method and “replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions,” …
And then again a year later, in a similarly named post, I once again honed in on the cavemen riding dinosaurs meme, musing:
Yeah, but then again, these are folks who don’t believe in evolution, so forgive me for taking their claimed scientific and technical expertise with a grain of salt.
There are a lotta things you can tar me with Bruce, but being inconsistent ain’t one of ’em.
And as for your main premise:
There are two obvious questions that matter about Susan Hutchison as King County Executive. One is whether her career as a TV news anchor and in arts fundraising qualifies her to be CEO of the largest county government in Washington, which is involved in police, courts, jails, land-use control, public health and elections. The other is how Hutchison would use the power the county executive actually has. Focus on these, and give us all a rest regarding the Discovery Institute.
Well, forgive the over-the-top forced metaphor, but I’d say that arguing that Hutchison’s association with Intelligent Design has no bearing on her fitness for office is kinda like considering Mussolini to head Sound Transit, and insisting the only thing that really matters is whether he has the proven ability to make the trains run on time.
Of course Discovery is a valid issue in this campaign, as are Hutchison’s self-identification as a conservative Republican. These are issues and labels which help inform us about Hutchison’s values, and whether she shares those of the majority of King County voters. Given her background, Hutchison should be forced to answer whether she accepts evolution as valid science, and whether she believes Intelligent Design or other “alternative theories” should be taught in the schools. Surely, Bruce, you’re not arguing that voters would be better served by having less information about their candidates?
As I stated yesterday, the bulk of the invitations for Hutchison to sit on boards came from her role controlling Charles Simonyi’s vast checkbook, but her position at Discovery, and the conservative Christian organization Young Life were different. These were board positions Hutchison sought out, presumably because their agendas were consistent with her own personal beliefs. Good for her. People should act on their principles.
And people’s principles should be issues in political campaigns.
The Discovery Institute does do many things not related to the zany ID stuff. Some of it very positive and progressive (i.e. pushing for expanded rail on the west coast.)
But Susan’s publicly stated stances and support for anti-science republican candidates makes this a prime issues in terms of her qualifications.
It is good that the race has drawn someone with some differences from the dominant political culture, that is frankly ossified. We need a change locally, we really do.
Too bad she is an unqualified wingnut who things the cavemen walked with dinosaurs.
And if it wasn’t an issue, why did the Institute take down the page noting her involvement so fast?
“Intelligent Transportation Design”
Damn, Goldy! Too fucking funny!!
@2 And if it wasn’t an issue, why did the Institute take down the page noting her involvement so fast?
———-
Well certainly not to hide Hutchison’s link with Discovery, since that link was well-known, and any Google search will highlight her association with a variety of docs. And, of course, it was bound to come up . . . and did almost immediately!
“Christianist, anti-scientific campaign” . . . What a thoughtless way to put this.
A lot of Christians do not accept Intelligent Design and feel that their faith and scientific findings are compatible.
‘Suggest you keep anti-religious prejudice, or should I say bigotry, to yourself.
@5 As a Christian myself, I note the tendancy of some on the left to lump us all together – those Christians whose great-grandparents rode dinos and Christians like myself for whom science and progress isn’t at all threatening. That said, I read Goldy’s post and wasn’t insulted in the least. But that’s because I have an idea of where Goldy’s coming from with this. Still, the left would serve itself well to better define who and what they’re really talking about when Christianity is discussed.
Joel @5,
I intentionally wrote Christianist not Christian, and I use it in the same way one might distinguish Islamist from Islamic. It’s not anti-religious, it’s anti people attempting to use politics to force their religion on me.
FYI, I believe the term was popularized by Andrew Sullivan.
Goldy @ 7
I think even Islamist is not a good word. The term is offensive to faithful, well-meaning Muslims. It is one thing to talk about a Muslim extremist, Muslim radical, or Muslim terrorist. While some Muslims might even find those terms offensive, you are at least talking about an extremist, radical or terrorist.
But Islamist? Islam is a religion. Religions tend to be good, especially in the eyes of people who believe in the religion. “Islamist” should logically mean someone who is promoting Islam, in the same way that an evangelist or missionary might promote Christianity. But this is not the case, unfortunately.
But to take “Islamist”, and use it to describe people who are doing evil things in the name of Islam — things which violate the code of right and wrong in Islam? That is insulting to the name of Islam and people who follow Islam.
Using “Christianist” to describe Susan Hutchison is even more unfairly insulting, not only to Hutchison, but Christians of all beliefs and politics. Hutchison wants to impose her religious views on public education, and have them accepted as a scientific fact. That isn’t a very good idea, to say the least, and you certainly have the right to oppose it. But it isn’t like Hutchison is advocating blowing up buildings, hijacking airplanes, and putting non-Christians to death (i.e. the kind of thing that “Islamists” often get associated with).
If even Joel Connelly is calling you on this, maybe you should try a different choice of language?
I don’t care about Susan Hutchison and the Discovery Institute believing in intelligent design. That is their right. Hutchison should not be judged politically based on her religious beliefs.
If the Discovery Institute wants to research intelligent design, that is also their right.
If the Discovery Institute wants to promote and encourage academic types into researching intelligent design, then professors and other folks interested in researching this matter should be free to pursue study of the field. Or to not pursue study of the field.
The MAJOR problem I have is their attempts to rewrite high school curriculum. It is one thing to put evolution in a more comprehensive perspective. But what Discovery wants is for intelligent design to be taught as a scientific fact. That is wrong.
Some MAJOR concerns I have with Hutchison:
1. Hutchison is trying to “sanitize” her connections with the Discovery Institute away, by pretending that was something in the distant past. If she wanted to be proud of her Discovery Institute connections, then hurrah for a politician willing to stand up for personal principles. But to be ashamed of and try to deny and minimize her connections with Discovery?
2. This Charles Simonyi fellow seems to have a lot of influence on Hutchison, perhaps too much. For the past several years, Hutchison has been earned well over $100,000 per year simply to help Simonyi give away some of his large fortune to charity. Over $180,000 in 2007, the last year for which the IRS return for the Simonyi fund has been filed.
3. And of course, that she is a Republican. We should keep a Democrat in this office. What exactly are Hutchison’s political issues and platform?
@7
I’ve always liked Dave Neiwert’s term “Dominionist”. It kind of captures the whole spectrum from the “prayer in schools” types to those who are much more extreme in their views.
It has the added benefit of not offending those who consider themselves christian but who aren’t some degree of batshit crazy.
For the record given Ms. Hutchison’s past public statements and her service on the boards of both the Discovery Institute and Young Life I consider her to be on the milder side of “batshit crazy”. (but still batshit crazy)
@11
I wasn’t aware that there were varying degrees of “batshit crazy”. Thanks for enlightening me. I always thought that batshit crazy was batshit crazy.
I also think that those who seek to inject religion into government (including the public education system) are dangerous. Any individual seeking to govern that has been associated so intimately with an organization whose mission is to do so should be ridiculed. But King County is fortunate in that we have our very own batshit crazy, Sarah Palin-esque candidate to make fun of for the next few months. It’ll be soooo much fun to watch.
Richard @ 9
I don’t care about Susan Hutchison and the Discovery Institute believing in intelligent design. That is their right. Hutchison should not be judged politically based on her religious beliefs.
Frankly, I’m surprised you would say that. If Susan Hutchison’s religious views included a belief in and worship of pink unicorns, wouldn’t you think that has some bearing on her suitability for office?
As a voter, I have a right to know what her religious views are, and base my voting decision on my own evaluation of those views.
@ 10
This Charles Simonyi fellow seems to have a lot of influence on Hutchison, perhaps too much.
Charles is a bit of an unconventional character. A friend of mine describes being invited by Charles to go on a picnic. Turns out that part of the picnic was a ride in a helicopter. And, not just any ride, mind you, but a training ride with an instructor.
About halfway through the flight, the instructor says something my friend found unintelligible at the time (though later learned was “auto-rotate”), reaches over and flips a switch on the control panel, at which point the engines shut off and the helicopter starts dropping like a rock.
Of course, the blades of the helicopter start rotating (the auto-rotate part), which creates lift and the helicopter’s descent slows rather rapidly. At that point, the instructor starts up the engines, and they proceed on to the picnic.
When Charles invites you on a picnic, you can rest assured that it won’t be a normal picnic.
@8 How do you know Hutchison won’t put nonbelievers and heretics to death if she gets power?
Richard @8,
And yet the main stream media uses the term Islamist with impunity. The term Christianist, as used by Andrew Sullivan, is clearly meant, at least partially, as an ironic commentary on the use of the word Islamist.
What evidence do you have that Susan Huchison is attempting to force her religion upon you, Goldy?
Me thinks you should have referred to the thread below yours by DeVore entitled “Couldn’t find enough real bigots?”
Afterall, the bigotry you attempt to expose in others is usually the face staring back at you in the mirror, as is your case with respect to people of faith.
@12
Well I say there are degrees because I feel even those who claim they only want prayer in school or to have “intelligent design” taught are batshit crazy. But someone like Hutchison is clearly not quite in Gov. Palin, Rep. Bachmann, or Glen Beck territory.
OMFG, Bruce Ramsey is an idiot.
Like most anti-transit cro-mags, Ramsey fights light rail tunnels with every frail bone in his Reaganite body. But tunnels for cars? Well, they’re just swell.
Like most conservative airheads, Ramsey forgets to notice tunnels for car are much larger, and much more expensive to build.
And luke most self-centered Seattle Times Dino-saurs, Ramsey only really cares about his daily solo driving experience.
Similarily, the Seattle Times didn’t turn against light rail until a northern alignment was chosen – an alignment which by-passed the Blethen Family Newsletter’s Fairview property. Around the same time BlethenCo was considering a move to Bothell.
In the end, all Ramsey and his newspaper care about is self-serving public policy…and cold, hard cash. Precisely why their days are numbered.
And for the angry conservatives here: feel persecuted? Well, at least Goldy lets you clowns air your retarded views on Susan “walks on water” Hutchison. If you’re a right wing skeptic like myself, going against the grain of lock-step Republicanism…try posting your comments at Sound Politiks. Within minutes, watch the “free thinking individualist” editor censor your views. Talk about walking the talk!
Garth @ 19
Funny you should mention Sound Politics. Susan Hutchison has been an announced candidate for well over 36 hours already. For an office that Stefan feels so strongly about, that he has referred to Ron Sims as “the Robert Mugabe of Washington politics”. Yet, when the folks at Sound Politics finally have one of their own kind running for King County Executive, not a single word is mentioned about their candidate. Why the silence from the right?
Got an example to point to? The only censoring I see going on there is when people like yourself try to make the atmosphere there like it is at this waste treatment facility with F-bombs flying that detracts from the thread topic at hand and produces little more than
profanity-laced dueling pre-pubescents20-50 year olds venting their teenage angst. Pathetic isn’t it?…and as for the “Goldy lets you clowns air your retarded views”, that’s just the kind of open mindedness we need more of in this country. Thanks for sharing.
Goldy, the Atheist Progressive once again shows his hatred on those of Christian faith…even on Maunday Thursday.
It’s Good Friday today Goldy.
Any more zingers?
Here is some fodder for your hate Goldy–
John 19:28-30 (New International Version)
The Death of Jesus
Go ahead Goldy, have a field day.
Verse 30 is the most powerful, defining moment in the history of mankind. Christ fulfilled everything God asked him too as defined by the Old Testament. His work was finished. He obeyed God to the end, perfectly…something none of us (especially me) could never even come close to.
But go ahead Goldy…you’ve shown your Christian-hating brand of blogging so many times before…why not do it on Good Friday??
Coward.
Rick D. @ 16, 21:
All we have to do to whip any candidate’s ass at the polls in King County is point people to YOUR comments on this or any other blog, and tell them “Rick D. supports this candidate.”
So thanks for being here, Ricky baby. You’re a big help to us. Y’all hurry on back now, y’hear?
ivan–
Are you nuts? Did you even read what Rick D said??
@16-
@20
And you are going to use those comments for political purposes??
ivan, are you another Christian-hater than the mere mention makes you go blind??
Kind of appears that way.
I thought you were bigger than that?
Rick D, if you ever feel like the sharp rebuke to your right wing views is actually an attempt to bully you right outta here… well, then, you got yerself a pretty strong victim’s complex to deal with.
If you can show me an example of one of your sparring partners here trying to show you the door, I’ll call him an idiot. Personally, I enjoy your participation here. Save Puddy’s pointless trolling pontifications, most of the righties here do a fine job illustrating why your ideology has hit the skids.
At least you jokers gave up the attempt to put W on a pedestal. His legacy is really lifting you guys to new heights.
Also, Rick D, if you need me to give you examples of retarded – oftentimes disturbing – far right views…I could fill this thread up with your flagship torch-carriers, Puddy and Mr. Cynical.
Or, we could go back to yesterday, when Lostinaseaofblue called Obama, FDR and LBJ “treasonous.”. Remember, Lost is one of the lesser-insane righties here. But somebody does need to tell that clown the Cold War ended 20 years ago.
Heh. As usual, Mr. Cynical confuses a hatred of hateful right wing religionists with a hatred for Christians. Of course, he always pulls this stunt for supposed political gain. And, to satisfy his own (really twisted) victim’s complex.
I agree with Mr. Cynical, Ivan. That was a pretty weak response to the 2 posts I made.
You’ve resorted to the textbook default position that most intellectually bankrupt liberals use when they can’t outline a substantive argument:
“When you can’t debate, Obfuscate”
What rebuke are you referring to? I asked you to back up your claim of victimization at the SP website @ 19.
Short of providing that, you have yerself a pretty strong “victim complex” to deal with.
Mr. Cynical taunting people with Biblical verse @22.
Yeah, Mr. C – religious script used as a political weapon. Talibangelism at its best.
And yet another example of how the mentally ill & far right can gravitate towards – and hijack – Christianity…to calm their own demons (more like : unleashing them on the rest of us) and to achieve their political party’s political goals.
Without even a PEEP of protest from his other fellow rightist “Christians”. Are annoying, self-righteous Athiests worse that these creeps? I think it’s a tie. Until the end of time.
I’m so grateful cynical continues to emulate the humility, humanity, hospitality, grace, and pacifism of Jesus the Christ.
Thank you for blessing this site with your message of love.
Happy Easter!
Ah, those Christianist Christofascist science-hating neomorons at Discovery Institute. Such as Christofascist David Klinghoffer and antiscience Christianist David Berlinski.
Klinghoffer, who wrote a book about doing the Decalogue in Satan’s own Seattle, a book so deserving of respect that even Goldstein was briefly respectful.
And then there’s retard Berlinski, with his useless Ph.D. from Princeton and his useless drivel about the calculus, algorithms, differential topology, theoretical biology, and the philosophy of mathematics.
Too bad Discovery can’t get the blinding level of brilliance that genius Goldstein inspires on his brilliant blog, but isn’t genius Goldstein betraying a bit of self-hating closeted anti-Semitism by defaming Klinghoffer (Jew) and Berlinski (agnostic Jew) as Christianists?
@ 31~ You’re in the perfect group-think environment there at the P-I. That’s the kind of narrow minded ideology that ran the dead tree portion of your “views” organization into the ground.
Nothing is more fascistic than liberal-fascism in post modern Seattle.
OMG, but this is funny. First, 31 shows up with an obvious inability to see that Goldy’s use of the word “Christianist” was used as an adjective applied to the word “campaign” and not to the Discovery Institute, and then 32 shows up showing a distinct inability to grasp the concept of sarcasm. Would the ubiquitous “<sarcasm>…</sarcasm>” tags have helped?
Glad you’re easily amused, DJ. A brief bad trip to Wiki demonstrates that David Berlinski is deeply identified with Discovery’s Christianist Intelligent Design campaign.
Happy, as usual, to help you past your chronic confusion.
Parse, Baby, Parse!
Don Joe, Mr. Grammar Person, who is so deucedly clever about POS — Parts of Speech — and who demonstrably demonstrates that he knows his adjectives from a hole in the ground, is a credit to his race and to the intellectual incandescence of HA. We are not worthy to share his rarified air.
May I humbly suggest, tho, that Joe watch Ben Stein’s Christianist ID film Expelled. Stein places Christianist Discovery Institute near the center of his film, and places Dr. Berlinski near the center of Christianist Discovery Institute.
PID @ 34
Glad you’re easily amused, DJ.
Perhaps, but I should point out that I was not all that amused by your blunder or RD’s. Rather, it was the confluence of one Emily Litella moment immediately followed by another that I found so amusing. Who knew you guys could channel Gilda Radner so effectively?
Conan @ 35
Sophomoric puns aside, you POS, both you and your Post-Intelligent compatriot completely miss the point. There is a difference between correcting someone’s incorrect usage and pointing out someone’s failure to accurately read what’s been read. Grammar errors tend to not be substantive. Misreading what someone actually said tends to all manner of argument that has nothing to do with what was actually said.
In this case, PID is taking Goldy to task for some form of ad-hominem argument, when, in fact, Goldy’s use of the pejorative was directed at the issues.
Got your point (such as it was) the first time.
Thanks for belaboring the obvious, but you’re obviously too much of a lawyer for your own good. Screw you (how’s that for ad hominem sophomoric pejorative POS) and your billable hours.
@ 37
Screw you (how’s that for ad hominem sophomoric pejorative POS) and your billable hours.
You’re not the first person to tell me that I’m more than a bit pointy-headed. Nevertheless, I’ll be sending you my bill, written on the stationary of Dewey, Cheatham and Howe.
Oh, and by the way, “anal-retentive” is hyphenated.