One of the stupider arguments in the comment threads and elsewhere against implementing a state income tax—especially a high-earners income tax on millionaires—is that if we tax the wealthy, they’ll all move out of state.
Huh. Really? To where? Across the border to Idaho, where the top bracket is currently 7.8 percent? Or perhaps we’ll see economic refugees pouring into Oregon, seeking shelter under its 9 percent top rate? Or maybe nearby Montana at 6.9% or California at a whopping 10.3%.
In fact, apart from Washington, there are only six other states with no income tax—Alaska, Wyoming, South Dakota, Nevada, Texas and Florida—all either unbearably hot or unbearably cold for much of the year. So it’s hard to image that a top rate of between 1 and 5 percent would be enough impetus to prompt the wealthy—who have the luxury of affording to live whereever they please—to pick up and leave our temperate clime, natural splendor and vibrant cultural scene for, say, Sioux Falls or Las Vegas.
Even maintaining a second home for tax purposes doesn’t make much economic sense when you look at the actual numbers across a range of incomes. For example, under the Kohl-Welles plan, a family earning $2 million a year would pay an additional $10,000 in state taxes, and the higher you go up the income scale the less the marginal utility of the money paid. Meanwhile, extending the tax downward to the lower income wealthy, while having more of a real-world impact, hardly costs them enough money to make a move financially worthwhile when a family earning $300,000 might pay only an additional $1,000 annually.
But in fact, I think even this analysis misses the point. In general, the wealthy aren’t as inherently selfish as some on the right suggest, and neither are they purely economic animals who make every decision according to the bottom line… both notions that put the most vocal critics of an income tax squarely in the philosophical camp of Karl Marx.
Humans are incredibly complicated creatures, and money is far from our only motivation. Some moved to our state for jobs, some for the music scene, some for nearby access to recreation and wilderness. (I moved here for love, and stayed because this is my daughter’s home.) To argue that a person earning $10 million a year, who chose to set down roots in our region for any number of reasons, would simply pick up and move his family to Texas to save a mere $90,000 in taxes a year, is absolutely ridiculous.
Furthermore, it is based on the false assumption that the wealthy as a group have no sense of social obligation and no understanding of or gratitude for the public investment that helped make their wealth possible, and that helps to protect and maintain both their property and their quality of life. Look at the Seattle precinct maps from the last time an income tax was on the ballot and you’ll see that the measure did best amongst those who were being asked to raise their taxes the most. In reality, it is the Frank Blethens of this world who are the exception to the rule, not ultra-wealthy fair-tax advocates like Warren Buffet and William Gates Sr.
Thus when Republicans and their surrogates insist that an income tax—any income tax—would drive wealth and jobs from our state, they show an incredible amount of disrespect for the integrity and intelligence of the wealthy, who for the most part, would be willing to pay a little more of their fair share, if they can be convinced the money would be put to good use.
Goldy–
You conveniently neglected the AND-part of the antiIncome Tax on the Wealthy………..
AND enacting this would be the camel’s nose under the tent to lower the threshhold and raise the rate in the future.
Get the WHOLE comment before you counterpoint…BUSTER!
Nothing stops you and your supporters from contribuating money to the state.
LES
@1
Well there is the small matter that currently any tax increases in the state require a 2/3 vote of the legislature or a >50% vote of the people to pass.
But even if the rate was raised and the tax applied to say 4/5 of wage earners, what of it?
Government services have to be paid for somehow.
I mean I suppose we could try turning Washington into some third-world shithole but I’d really rather those who want that did it somewhere else.
I think Tennessee does not have an income tax…
Cynical @1,
No, your argument has been that taxing the wealthy would drive them and their money out of state, and that is the argument I am refuting.
For someone not earning an income, it’s strange to hear someone like Goldy advocating an income tax in this state.
Actually, what would be most interesting would be to see where higher income earners actually sit on the spectrum of public opinion on this issue. I am a long way from being taxed under the Kohl welles $1 million proposal, but would get taxed under the EOI proposal, and yet I strongly support it. A majority of higher income professionals strongly supported Obama despite his open insistence on increasing taxes on people over $250,000K in income. That may correlate to an understanding of the common good, and that our relative success is in part based on the opportunites our society presents. And I am not talking about wingnut capitalism- I am talking about public education, public safety, and some quality of life measurements.
WA is on the verge of breaking our social contract with each other. So is our nation. When we see stories like the fact that job retraining programs can’t take anyone else for three months because we are out of money, when we talk about slashing 10-15k slots in higher ed when that is the only route ahead in the future economy, when we are slashing public schools by 6-8% before they even take additional local hits, and we are throwing 50,000 lower income people off health care, we are creating a recipe for disaster for people’s faith in our future.
And geez, lets not even talk about the seemingly almost daily shooting rampages by desperate and depraved people.
As for the people who would consider moving based on this policy to Las Vegas, I guess my reaction is good riddance. Let them move to some of our third world allies where you don’t get taxed on your million dollar incomes, but you live in gated communties under armed guard, and have little or know social services, public schools, or public spaces. James fallows wrote a great essay on this a couple years ago- his comparison of a million dollars in Switzerland vs. the Phillipines was eye opening.
And to think, we are stuck with only the “Seattle Times” in print media to write idiotic editorials against this idea rather than a thooughtful discussion of tax equity and our social good. That does not bode well for us.
Somone whining about the loss of just another groupthink mechanism in already groupthink Seattle.
Too amusing for words.
@1
All this talk of Camel’s noses has got me thinking of the Bible
Matthew 19:23-24 (New International Version)
How would Jesus come down on this argument? Oh yeah he told us.
Matthew 22:21
So the question. Was Jesus a socialist?
I am glad you find it so amusing. That certainly shows a depth of thoughtfulness and an open mind to different points of view. Of course, my point was not to lament just the PI-but to lament that we only have the autocratic idiocy of the Sea times ed page left.
But as long as you have brought up by inference the PI, I will note just a few things they did in my time, off the top of my head. Lets see, they broke the Chuck Carroll corruption story at city hall and the port of Seattle corruption story this year. They unveiled stories about the Exxon Valdez and the lies being told about clean up. They helped break stories on the corruption and the wheelbarrows of money being handed out to politically connected contractors in Iraq with virtually no oversight. They attacked the sacred cow of Boeing for their politcal extortion and their assembly failures with the dreamliner. Yeah, its a dream all right, its only a dream. For sports fans, they broke stories of political hold ups for public investments in the value of sports franchises, taking money from taxpayers for private gain. They broke the stories on the town of Libby Montana, and WR Grace’s disgraceful and what should be criminal activities in polluting and killing a town and a region, then using their politcal clout to fight off the consequences.
Thats just a few items.
But I guess we are better off without that, is that your point? None of that was really a public good or a public value, is that right?That if as a “groupthink,” we all happen to believe that is a public good and a public treasure to have that kind of reporting that comforted the afflicted and afflicted the comfortable, its still just hilarious and ridiculous “groupthink?”
Please define your terms. As it is, your comment makes no sense to my groupthink-addled mind.
Here you are:
State of Washington
Department of Revenue
PO Box 47450
Olympia, WA 98504-7450
If you are all so concerned about income taxes, please feel free to mail the Department of Revenue a check at the above address. Just make your checks payable to “DOR,” and the folks at the DOR will be happy to take your money.
why am I not surprised that this would make no sense to your group-think addled mind…
How many of these super high earners allready have homes elsewhere? I would be alot spend a significant portion of their time elsewhere or allready have a second home somewhere. How many super earners would be anchored here due to the fact they have a speciality/skill that brought them here due to the work they do for their employer-probably alot of them are in this category. Also, how many of these super earners capital is allready spent elsewhere on items from foreign investments, stocks of non-WA companies to homes elsewhere-probably alot. So to those argueing a great migration is going to take place, I say I doubt it.
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....88163.html
“Obama Wants to Control the Banks
There’s a reason he refuses to accept repayment of TARP money.”
6. Rick D. spews:
‘For someone not earning an income, it’s strange to hear someone like Goldy advocating an income tax in this state.’
Nice Rick. I was thinking that very same thing. That applies to “between jobs” YLB, and many others here as well. It’s easy for them to whine and bitch when they are not able (or wanting) to anny into the kitty.
Rickie D- the depth and complexity of your ad hominem attacks leaves me speechless and contemplating the depth of your intellect. Really, they do.
And if you think about my comment for a moment, and try actually parsing its meaning, maybe you will get the fact that it is a serious comment.
Since when do you have to be employed to pay taxes, especially in Wa state?
And since 95% of us earn less than 100K per year, imagine how small a percentage that is for 300K or 1 million per year. This high earners tax would only apply to the upper crust, who, from reading various posts here, are the most selfish, arrogant shits on the face of the planet.
I mean get real, most of these people made their money precisely by denying the lower classes the raises they deserve.
The wingnuts never seem to tire of their formulaic little prescription for economic Nirvana: No taxes and no regulation.
It seems to me that 30 years of following this outmoded nostrum has gotten us all to this miserable economic point in time.
The problem that I have with arguments against a state income tax such as the ones promulgated by Mr. Cynical is that it is the conclusion that is defended to the end, not the reason for the conclusion — much as the reasoning for entry into the Iraq war.
If the ‘millionnaires will leave’ meme is proven absurd, then it’s the ‘camel’s nose under the tent’ argument. When that argument is refuted, another wingnut rationale will surface.
The whole wingnut psyche is bounded by a faith in faith itself. Faith is the ability to believe that which we know to be impossible. In that exercise, Mr. Cynical surpasses all.
@6: Poor state representative Goldstein (D-Western State) has no visible means of support. No gainful employment. No marketable skills, aside from writing useless software or shaking down the unwary for cash pledges (Give Goldy $150 and get a reusable HA hemp totebag to fight global warming!) to feed his useless blog.
God knows he was left behind, eating Rabbit’s dust in the booming Bush bull market. God knows that’s all Goldy had to eat, because he was less than one paycheck away from food stamps and USDA commodity salmonella peanut butter. And there was no paycheck.
So how does an indigent penurious pauper, your basic bum, become a rising star in the Democrat firmament? How does he afford to live in stately Goldstein manor, a recycling site for used condoms? I mean, even if poor Goldstein turns his winter thermostat down to hypothermia, there are all those TAXES to pay, all that Democrat graft to route to liberal lobbyists in Olympia.
How does our Goldy do it? How does he live on next to nothing?
Probable answer: Red Diaper Trust Fund. Betcha dollars to ossified doughnuts from Goldy’s meager table that he’s a trust fund baby slumming with the bums.
Probable Red Diaper Trust Fund: A tax-deferred annuity. That’s why Goldstein blithely belches for new taxes to pay for imperialist Gregoire’s bloated empire of overpriced state services. Goldstein knows or thinks that the new Democrat taxes for old Gregoire’s binge will be paid by others, the very fat fatcats (Democrats almost every one) who should have moved to Wyoming but didn’t.
Policy wonkette Goldstein should review the evolution of federal income taxes from 1913 to present. Started, like Kohl-Welles taxes in WA, as a fatcat tax. Top rate two percent (some say seven) on the filthy rich. Never supposed to bite into the lesser classes, until they did, after about four years.
There was and is no revenue-neutral tax reform, not when Democrats are in charge. Democrats smell revenue streams like drunks at the Westlake Drunk Hotel smell high-octane liquid diets. Give them an inch under the tent, and even tax-sheltered Goldstein will be on the hook for Gregoire’s shakedown for public ‘art’ and for illegal alien tuition breaks.
Verily, ’tis often said that God wants only 10%, but Augustus Gregoire and Agrippa Hussein Obama want it all. Jesus may or may not have been a Keynesian socialist (Time Mag tells us that Lincoln was), but Gregoire and Obama are empire-building bureaucratic robber barons.
About the dead dead-tree P-I, today’s Blethen Bugle has a modest proposal: Pour tens of billions of your federal dollars, instead of mere hundreds of millions, into nationalized news. It’ll be NPR on steroids, all the best leftist spin that money extracted and extorted from you can buy.
Blethen gets a couple of left-wingnuts to scold us about our stinginess. Free press isn’t free. We should be willing to tax ourselves to pay for the blessings of Euro-style managed news. (Euro-style means BBC, which sends black-maria spy vans thru dark London streets to trap owners of unregulated tv sets.)
Blethen’s bailout proposal comes too late for the stinking corpse of the P-I, but Blethen’s looking ahead to the end of his own Bataan death march. Grabbing a few give-backs from Olympia won’t save him, but a Geithner-Obama takeover might. Barack Hussein Goodwrench, who has promised to make good on your drivetrain warranty, can also do Blethen’s classified phone bank … but only after shutting down craigslist.
(P-I’s David McCumber wrote a pretty good book about playing cowboy in Montana. Unlike fat Joel, who’s too bloated to do anything useful, McCumber can probably get another job. If cattle were too complicated for him, he can play Brokeback ‘cowboy’ and herd sheep.)
@11 spews: “If you are all so concerned about income taxes, please feel free to mail the Department of Revenue a check at the above address.” (see also comment #2)
If that’s the case, why not make all taxes voluntary? If you do not agree that all taxes should be voluntary, then you are not espousing a principle, you are being intellectually dishonest.
“why am I not surprised that this would make no sense to your group-think addled mind…”
Please provide proof to the peanut gallery here that you are different than other group think wingnuts on the right? Lickspittle lemmings, the lot of you.
Tom @ 16: “And if you think about my comment for a moment, and try actually parsing its meaning, maybe you will get the fact that it is a serious comment.”
Tom, I appreciate your thoughtful comments. However, Rick D. is a shill for the GOP who posts insults for a living…meager as it is. You will never get a “serious” discussion from him” because he is a spiteful partisan hater of the lowest kind.
Don’t take him seriously. He doesn’t.
We’ve got a pretty good idea what happens when the Republican camel gets its nose in the tent — crony contracting, trillion-dollar tax breaks for the Undertaxed Class, unprecedented corporate fraud, and economic collapse followed by trillion-dollar taxpayer bailouts of corrupt capitalists.
“Democrats smell revenue streams like drunks…”
Unlike Goppers for whom tax revenue are just another way to enhance private wealth and pick the pockets of the public, whom they consider rubes.
Given this choice, I’ll take drunken sailor anytime, Alex.
@7 “A majority of higher income professionals strongly supported Obama despite his open insistence on increasing taxes on people over $250,000K in income. That may correlate to an understanding of the common good, and that our relative success is in part based on the opportunites our society presents.”
I think they understood that if America had to endure another 4 years of Republican economic policy everyone would end up destitute including them.
@10 You’re wasting your time trying to argue with Ricky Dickhead. You’d have better luck with a parrot. The problem, you see, is that in Rickydick’s case there’s no intellect to work with. All he’s got inside his skull is a lump of wet clay.
@19: And from your comment we can surmise you are a hateful sociopath with a projection problem, filled with narcissistic rage, also without visible means of support, who probably still lives with your mother (bless her heart), collects guns, reads Nazi Party rags, and eats your nose pickings.
For example, take your incredible ingnorance regarding annuities and trust funds.
Whatta’ stupe.
Roger @ 27
I am not going to stand for you insulting wet clay like that. You must be more kind to Mother Earth. What would Mother Rabbit say?
@11 We understand that your concept of paying for government is that someone else should so that you don’t have to.
Have you heard about the new investment scheme? It’s called a “hedge fund.” The managers get the profits, the investors get the losses, and the janitors get to pay for the bailouts.
@15 Learn how to spell “ante,” you ignorant trailer park illiterate.
These trolls probably all were drinking beer by age 7.
All of the discussion here, most especially Mr. C’s rants, misses the real point.
There is a gross maldistribution of state/local taxes in Washington. Poor households pay 17% of their income to state and local governments while affluent households pay only 4%.
What obviously should happen is balancing the distribution of tax burdens by refocusing taxes from those paying too much to those not paying their fair share.
The mechanics are secondary; what counts is the result. It doesn’t have to be an income tax. We could accomplish the same thing by making it a crime to be a Republican and requiring every Republican to post $50,000 of nonrefundable bail.
@29 It goes without saying that I was referring to Martian clay. Have you already forgotten that the aliens who kidnapped him brought him back? A note pinned to his shirt said they found nothing worth studying.
@35
Ah, yes. Mea culpa. Of course, only Martian clay could explain the extraordinarily high level of density.
Please accept my apologies.
I’m betting that the number of wealthy folks that could just pickup and leave is probably pretty small. People are tied to their businesses and such.
Stupes R Us: I was born a poor black child, so know nothing about trust funds. Not possible to do one as an annuity? Tax deferred? Guess a greedy plutocrat Democrat like you will have to set us straight. In fact you’re probably a red diaper baby like Goldstein, so you can give us the total down low lowdown.
Have no projection problem, aside from projectile vomiting from reading your posts, but it’s better than the projectile farting we get from Rabbit. And let’s not even discuss my Nazi mum and her warm guns … don’t want to give limpdick liberals like you any goofy ideas.
Correction @20: That’s Caligula Hussein Obama.
Poor household? Affluent household? What part of vacuous and vapid don’t you understand?
How “poor” must one’s poor income and assets be to reach that 17% threshhold you heard about on the top-of-the-hour news between Ron Reagan’s commercials for Super Beta Prostate?
And if that 17% stat even comes close to our state’s reality, how can you justify supporting the Democrat shakedown that extorts 17% of the income of those least able to pay?
Goldy, better trolls please.
re 38: REally! How sad about your parents. Both of mine were killed in a plane crash before I was born, so I never knew them.
re 40: We don’t. We’re proposing a shakedown of those who have enough money to make it worth our while.
We want to stand on the necks of the sweating, hard-working ‘producers’ — as most trust fund brats usually are.
CS @ 41 spews:
Goldy, better trolls please.
No shit. You’d think we could come up with some trolls who were smart enough to figure out that it’s probably not a good idea to exemplify attributes like “vapid” and “vacuous” when they use those adjectives to describe other people’s comments.
Someone please explain why Boeing moved its headquarters to Illinois, a state which has an income tax.
I agree with Mr. Cynical – no need to let the camel poo in our tent.
Yes Jesus was s socialist and I poo all over him and his followers! Down with Christianity!
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Here is where this is headed. The Europeanization of America. Seems like the Marxist/Socialist krowd has an unhealthy fascination and dream that somehow Europe==Utopia.
Here is a link that takes a look at the Europeanization of America. Think about the consequences..
http://www.steynonline.com/content/view/1931/26/
Is that what you really want?
I especially like this part:
Poor Goldy:
What was your taxable income this year Goldy??
I was at $350k…so far from being impacted.
However, I truly believe the “camel’s nose” argument has merit based on past history of new taxes continually having rates increased and threshholds lowered. Look at Social Security and Medicare.
You KLOWNS clearly believe in class warfare and freely use the term “fair share”.
I ask you what is “fair” about a huge % of people in Washington paying next to nothing…but indulging in the services they pay nothing for???
I think it is time for the KLOWNS to openly acknowledge their love for Karl Marx:
Karl Marx:
You KLOWNS walk like Marx and talk like Marx..yet get all upset when someone shines a light on you cockroaches to show with Marx quotes that you are Marxists.
Why are you all soooooooo ashamed?
You are either devious or stupid…neither one is good.
@30,
I pay plenty, you arrogant-aging-fucking-moronic-cocksucker. What I don’t want is yet another government intrusion into my life. If you want that, fine: send the DOR a check at the address provided in my post at 11.
Put your fucking money where your mouth is, asshole!
P-I —
The Rabbit sucks off a Pension he obtained by hanging on for decades.
All he knows is tax-borrow-and squander.
Folks are tired of State workers griping about being underpaid.
There Benefits + Paid Time-off adds an additional 50% to their salaries.
Salary is $50,000
Total Compensation == $75,000
I think these Tax Proposals will come down to focusing on TOTAL COMPENSATION paid to State EMployees. If taxpayers knew the truth, they would vote HELL NO!
@54: So politically stupid makes over a million dollars a year?
I doubt it.
So this doesn’t affect you – so quit your pathetic whining about government intruision that doesn’t exist.
Also, the incomne is taxed on where it is made – the rich can move wherever they want – but if their business is here – it will be taxed here.
Is Microsoft going to move ot of state because of this – I doubt it.
How ’bout if we split the state in two? In western Wasington, everybody pays 1% income tax and in eastern Washington nobody pays. Then all the revenue collected in western Washington is used exclusively for services to western Washington residents and those living in the eastern part of the state can have the no services utopia they dream about.
Of course, checkpoints would have to be set up at all the mountain pass summits to keep the socialist westerners out.
I’d gladly pay $1200 a year for such an experiment.
57 – That’d be something of an improvement over what we have now.
All the nuts would make a beeline for their low/no tax, “property-rights” (right to despoil/pollute) utopia.
However no fair if they drive here to mooch off the more advanced economy – then they’s got to pay a “jock” tax.
Let them eat their own dog food. See how they like it.
For the LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWNS and KLOWNettes, it has always been about us against them. You KLOWNS are TOO DAMN FUNNY!
YOU ARE IN CHARGE!
How come YOUR Legislature and YOUR Governor don’t push YOUR agenda??
ANSWER:
Your Socialist/Marxist Agenda is impractical and unsustainable.
You have been duped and used…
You are “THE USEFUL IDIOTS” of those in power.
But hey, keep yapping and they will continue to LET YOU EAT CAKE!…throwing you a hunk of stale useless cake to chew on for awhile and shut you up.
I thought you KLOWNS were in charge??
Doesn’t seem that way..if you judge by actions.
Fine idea, City of Seattle had a monitorial tax few years ago. Wasn’t very much of a tax however, HA and TM where against it. Now if it was Eastern Way. Paying the tax the liberals would be in their glory.
Liberals can’t live off the land or even defend themselves (Okay most.) majority of living base in Seattle are good people. They don’t want to get in your face and blend in normally to the population. The rest are in your face pop-smoking hoodlums most would prefer to pee on the sidewalk. All kidding aside where in big trouble the world will embrace me instead they hate me.
All Obama’s hot rhetoric during the campaign is biting him in the ass over & over again.
Here is the latest:
Obama Declines to Call Armenian Deaths in World War I a ‘Genocide’
By sidestepping the genocide issue — a key tension point between Turks and Armenians and a rallying cry among Armenian-Americans — President Obama says he is trying to be as “encouraging as possible.”
By Major Garrett
FOXNews.com
Monday, April 06, 2009
Biden tells us Obama will be tested in his 1st 6 months. N. Korea launches a rocket, China remains silent and Obama looks like a doofus.
Now this?
The more Obama talks and time passes, the more Americans will see his lack of experience and credibility….jeopardizing the safety & freedom of us all.
I think Americans are learning a lesson about electing a smooth-talker with zero experience as a whim. Never again.
Idiot @ 59
The “Marxist Agenda” you keep spewing about is more spending for education, tax fairness, environmental/quality of life preservation and a decently kept up infrastructure so the economy can operate – stuff that everyone wants everywhere you fiend.
Why don’t you sell your freaking properties here, pay your Montana State income tax, spend freely because there’s no sales tax there and bother Montana bloggers?
You’re getting so boooooooooorrrinnnnnngg…
Fool @ 61
Yeah and was your chimpanzee Bush was a big booster of Taiwan and Tibet?
Didn’t think so..
The Armenian Genocide is a line you don’t cross with the Turks unfortunately and yes it was a genocide. If you believe in shoring up Israel, Turkey is one of the few countries in the Middle that has halfway decent relations with Israel.
YLB–
Kind of testy this AM…what’s the matter, you welfare check run out already this month?
My concern is more about the ever-expanding role of government in our lives…and specifically who & how we pay for it.
Karl Marx:
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.”
Seems like the role of government has expanded way beyond what even Marx had dreamed! What is a NEED YLB?? Food, clothing, shelter & safety. What else is a NEED?
Didn’t your mommy teach you the difference between NEEDS and WANTS??
Apparently not…because charities provide many of the needs to folks much more effectively than a bloated government bureaucracy.
63. YLB spews:
So why did Obama “cross the line” with his campaign rhetoric?? Too pander to KLOWNS like you?? Does Obama think that Turks don’t read about Obama’s Campaign rhetoric??
They know what he thinks….he said so in the campaign!!
Now Obama and his merry band of KLOWNS think the Turks will just forget those campaign comments??
You KLOWNS are really something!
Chickens are comin’ home to roost everywhere.
Trust that Conservatives will remind the world about Obama’s Campaign statements.
It’s called accountability.
Cynical, Goldy continues to discount the 5500+ millionaires who left California since 2000 due to over taxation and revenue grabs by the Democratics in Sacramento. The evidence is right there in front of Goldy and been placed on HA for years.
Puddy read in the paper this morning that the Democratics in Olympia think it’s more important to give health care to illegals (their term undocumenteds) and instead fire teachers, up to 5000 of them across the state.
Ain’t that amazing…? What say you Lauramae? No Republicans have touched this budget!!!!!
64. Mr. Cynical spews:
Cynical Puddy reminded clueless wonder of his For the Clueless 11/10/2006 10:AM I’m leaving rant only to reappear as YOS LIB BRO at 5:07 PM the same day. He keeps forgetting this when reminding others of their comments.
66. Puddybud, Hey it’s the new year… spews:
This is clear evidence of excessive pot-smoking…denial. Goldy makes it worse by combining the pot with a daily dose of Prozac (which is a combo that leads to early-Alzheimers).
Puddy, I guess Goldy just forgot.
Something about Truth and Facts triggers that convenient Alzheimers.
68. Puddybud, Hey it’s the new year… spews:
YLB is another “victim” of excessive Pot and Prozac. I tell you Puddy, this early-Alzheimers seems to be near epidemic proportions impacting the KLOWN Kommunity!
Puddy–
Perhaps we should legalize Pot and Prozac…giving it free to all the LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWNS?
We’ll call it
THE KLOWN KOCKTAIL!!
Asshole @ 64
No one on this blog is a Marxist you idiot! Show me one link where some regular has discussed Marxist ideas or promoted candidates of a Marxist-influenced third party. Nowhere. In this state, those parties get less than 5000 votes in a election cycle COMBINED! Oh! I’m so scared of the red menace!
Now almost all of you fools on the other side are LIMBAUGHISTS – obese, drug-abusing/recovering, thick-headed hypocrites!
I haven’t touched marijauna in over 20 years. The stuff didn’t agree with me. I’ve never taken Prozac.
Right now I’ve got a cold. I took one 500 mg tylenol last night to help me sleep.
I’ll put that up against an addiction to right wing bullshit any day.
@73
“I haven’t touched marijauna in over 20 years. The stuff didn’t agree with me. I’ve never taken Prozac.”
Guess your next logical step would be cocaine?
Either way 20 years of unemployment cocaine isn’t helping you. reach up you’ll wind what you need.
Nope. Don’t use any recreational drugs. I have a beer or wine once in a (great) while.
I value a clear head.
Something you very clearly lack given all the right wing bullshit you paste here.
Great prescription Cynical. Personally, I would top it off with a four shot Americano to achieve that Friday night buzz of combined alertness and relaxation.
Beats your carton of Marlboros and 12 pack of Coors light with boilermaker kickers.
That will kill you Cynical!!
PRESIDENT OBAMA! Just wanted to remind the right wing cowards what happened to em’ on Nov 4!
75. YLB spews:
It’s clear all right dimwit…clear as in empty!
HAR!
The Truth at 74: “Either way 20 years of unemployment cocaine isn’t helping you. reach up you’ll wind what you need.”
Holy shit, a mind that can produce rubbish of this quality suggests brain death has occurred. I challenge anyone to decipher what he has said here.
When are they going to seat Senator Franken? Our stuff will literaly sail through the senate.
Norm Coleman’s a sore loser. Wonder why I haven’t heard that in the ‘liberal’ media?
YLB–
Of course you are Marxists…everything you spew is dripping with redistribution of wealth you KLOWN as in
“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.”
re 79: He means that the subject of his ire is a crackhead. The word ‘wind’ was supposed to be ‘find’.
I’ve graded many a highschooler’s essay. I have a little insight into the inchoate mind — forgiveable in a teen, but not a supposed adult.
@75
“I value a clear head.”
Could you give us advance warning so we can look for it.
LOL!
re 81: We are Democratic Socialists. Top-down authoritarian Stalinism is more your style.
I’m rubber, you’re glue, ……. ba de bla and so forth.
re 81: God forbid we should expect any abilities from these trust fund brats. That’d be Communism, right?
Either way 20 years of unemployment, cocaine isn’t helping you. Reach up, you’ll find what you need.
Goldy
It would be nice if this web site had a edit option however, with pl,correctnotright and the other stooge your band time would be on overdrive.
re 86:”Goldy
It would be nice if this web site had a (sic) edit option however, with pl,correctnotright and the other stooge your band time would be on overdrive.”
There’s more, but I don’t have the time. No computer device can masque the fact that you are a nincompoop.
73,83 – Wow. Clever comebacks fools!
Your heads have been clouded by so much Limbaugh that it really contributed to the winning results for your crowd in 2006 and 2008.
Truth Troll @ 86
If you can’t edit your own posts, you should stop posting. What did the English language ever do to you to merit the torture you bring upon it? Damn, do you even understand that you wipe after shitting and not before?
Is this a religious prescription? I’d rather not take your advice. In fact, allow me to spurn it.
If your religion has led the likes of YOU and Mr. Klynical here then I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!
Right wingers repeat this constantly as if it has any effect whatsoever. If you don’t denounce it, then that means you’re a Marxist.
All I say if you’re trying to red bait me –
FUCK YOU!
You’re for taxing to pay for useless shitty wars in foreign places right? You call that “patriotism”. I call it deception and theft.
Everyone pays for that except you right? ‘Cuz you pay a lower rate for your capital gains and dividend income.
YLB
Cynical’s obsession with Marxism is fascinating. His obsession reveals that he lives in a time/reality warp that prevents him from seeing the world as it is. I don’t believe his obsession is treatable. He would have to first understand what Marxism entails, but that would require some objective thought. He has no capacity for that.
In other news, a loyal retainer of the Bush crime family makes some changes.
but increases elsewhere
Yep, the Pentagon had better cut back somehow. How else are we going to pay for these shitty wars much less bailing out the insolvent banks?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04.....=1&hp
Goldy, I didn’t realize pl,correctbutnotright and myleftfoot where your web techie. It all makes since now.
I have seen web sites having this feature built in that gives you 50-60 sec. I even seen it work a few times on this board to review or edit your post. With the 3 stooges you have on board this feature surly will never happen. No big ! I like the the responses from the 3 stooges. I’m sure the 3 suffered from the same conditions when growing up. LOL !
This is a fun site to visit.
95: “It all makes since now.”
It surely does.
Everybody remembers when Weird Al Gore climbed onto a hydraulic hoist and went up up up to graph climate catastrophe.
All bullshit, of course, but there is a J-curve graph in the 20 November 2007 issue of New York Review of Books that makes sense of economics. It shows England’s growth of real income from year 1200 to now. It’s low and flat from 1200 to 1800; author Robert Solow notes that the graph, extended back 6000 years or 10,000 years wuld have been low and flat.
Then, starting in 1800, the growth of real income goes straight up like an AlGore delerium, straight up to the ceiling.
Marx didn’t change 10,000 years of history in a historical eyeblink. Industrial capitalism fueled by fossil-fuel internal combustion did.
You socialists and neocommies smoothed over some of the traumas of capitalism’s rise and the rise of real wealth and well-being, but your socialism was just tinsel on the tree.
Now you socialists sound like Luddite liberals. You want to level us, and level us down, to the pre-growth centuries when almost everybody was on the knife edge of starvation. Or you want to tax us into a level of immiseration that looks like fairness and equity, if you don’t look too closely.
97: “You socialists and neocommies smoothed over some of the traumas of capitalism’s rise and the rise of real wealth and well-being, but your socialism was just tinsel on the tree.”
There are no socialists or neocommies posting here. We have a global financial crisis that was caused by an insane belief that “The Market” is rational and can police itself. That belief is wholly delusional, and now adults must clean up the mess. Suggesting restraints or regulations doesn’t make anyone a neocommie. Where do you people come from?
PL @ 93
Indeed, Mr. Klynical is deeply troubled.
He lives in a bubble that he’s spent his whole life blowing up and he’s crazy-assed desperate to keep it from popping.
YLB–
Aren’t you embarrassed for yourself?
Your comments are…an embarrassment to humanity.
100 – Nice try Mr. Klynical but no takee…
100 – And here’s a true embarrassment to humanity:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....id=topnews
You paid for it with your tax cut Mr. Klynical.
YLB–
Todd Rundgren had you personally in mind when he wrote these lyrics–
Bang On The Drum
Cynical (yeah, right) at 100: “YLB–
Aren’t you embarrassed for yourself?”
Surely, you jest. You humiliate yourself here everyday, yet you post the above? A mind is a terrible thing to waste, my friend. Why do you insist on throwing yours in the trash?
104 – Mr Klynical is out to pasture in some right wing meadow of the mindless, PL.
Don’t soil your depends now Stupes and Mr. Klynical:
and?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04.....7poll.html
When the guvmint gives out large volumes of “free cheese”, people are happy. When the bill comes due then we’ll see if these numbers hold out.
Your party is the party of class warfare. Of course pitting the rich against the rest has always been your mantra. Hence the clamor over Obama’s firing of Rick Wagoner and the pass given to The UAW head who put GM in the position it’s in today. Of course that went supersonic over the HA weasels heads.
The Wall Street Journal had an article last week on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, you know those those twin titans of mortgage mayhem who continually gave to the Dummocraptic Party, who lined Rahmbo, Gorelick, Raines, and Johnson’s and others pockets with millions; who got the best and brightest of the Dummocraptic party to say it was a racist witchhunt, there is nothing wrong with Freddie and Fannie in 2004 (need to see the YouTube video for the 10th time fools?); are planning to dish out $210 million worth of retention bonuses over the next 18 months. What Puddy thinks is telling Fannie and Freddie are handing out similar retention bonuses like AIG did and you HA weasels aren’t even paying attention. Sad and typical. Wait a minute… what is my source? Well it’s one of clueless wonder’s kook-aid sites HuffPo… http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....83028.html
Nary a peep from the freakmeisters here.
“Lockhart denied a request Grassley made last month to release names of employees receiving at least $100,000 in bonuses, citing “personal privacy and safety reasons.” – Huffpo article above
You HA weasels were cheering Bawney Fwank, Richard Blumenthal and Andrew Cuomo getting the AIG executives and worker names and threatening to publish them. So why does James Lockhart get to rebuff a senate request?
You HA weasels were cheering the protests at various AIG employee Connecticut homes. Conn ST Police had to watch the protests. http://www.businessinsider.com.....day-2009-3
You HA weasels love mayhem. It’s the Progressive Dummocraptic way.
@104 “Dummocraptic”
Good grief! Is that out of the Troll Handbook or do you come up with this infantile shit all by yourself?
Steve–
Have you heard this one–
Steve, Puddy been using Dummocraptic for years here on HA. And Puddy recognizes that’s the only thing you zero in on.
Pathetic and sad dude.
The only thing? Geez, Puddy, didn’t you notice that I zeroed in on you giving the green light to Troll to call blacks who commit black-on-white crimes “niggers”?
Pathetic and sad, dude.
Oh Steve Steve Steve…
Sarcasm is lost on you dude.
Nevermind.
Mark Sumner is right – conservatism has died. Especially if this clown speaks for it:
http://dailykos.com/storyonly/.....cop-killer
This guy is such a freaking joke!
Sarcasm? Oh, really? Explain that one to me, Puddy. What I saw was “pathetic and sad”.
Hey Goldy, Donald Trump is threatening to leave NY too over the NY Guvnur proposed Millionaires tax. So push that WA State Millionaires tax dude.
You Donkey’s never learn!
Wow clueless wonder scours the kook-aid for his daily reports yet he’s afraid to meet Puddy and show how all the HA weasels Puddy is batshit insane.
Puddy calls it self-projection.
Let’s recap. Someone on the right, Troll, calling blacks “niggers” and you being OK with it has something to do with “sarcasm”. Someone on the left, BBG, calling you an “oreo” is racist. I’m having a little trouble following this one, Puddy. Perhaps you could explain it to me.
steve–
Obviously the Truth was being sarcastic.
Not the case with ByeBye and Headlice…who are chronic mean-spirited racists.
Puddy understands better than you do the fact that the Fringe Lunatic Left has taken advantage of Blacks…pandering with handouts for their sure vote.
Sadly, the facts show guys like Bill Cosby and Puddy are 100% correct. Look at the crime stats and kids born out of wedlock. It’s sad….and a direct result from decades of LEFTIST manipulation, failing to address the core issue, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
Go ahead and continue telling Blacks they are VICTIMS steve. It will get you plenty of votes…but will never make substantive changes in lives.
@119 Let me see if I follow this. When someone on the right calls a black a “nigger”, it’s OK because they’re “obviously” being sarcastic. When someone on the left calls a black an “oreo” it’s because they’re obviously “chronic mean-spirited racists”. Did I get that right?
@119 “Go ahead and continue telling Blacks they are VICTIMS”
Of course, Mr. Cynical, if you had said “Go ahead and continue telling niggers they are VICTIMS”, Puddy would be OK with it. After all, you’re on the right and he would chalk it up as being just some more right-wing “sarcasm”.
Hey, it looks like these right-wingers are into sarcasm too!
http://www.stormfront.org
I did show you are batshit insane. Here:
http://horsesass.org/?p=14560#comment-910248
And here:
http://horsesass.org/?p=14560#comment-910246
Now why would ANYONE knowingly meet with someone like this?
steve–
Let it go.
I would never use the “N” word myself…but this was clearly sarcasm…whereas the LEFTIST idiots…Headlice & ByeBye clearly had evil intentions.
steve–I’ll bet I have more Black friends than you do? How many Black members at your Kountry Klub steve??? How many do you socialize with or play with??
My oh my, there’s certainly a lot of right-wing “sarcasm” on that Stormfront site.
@124 Let it go? Not anytime soon, Mr. Cynical.
The right: “clearly sarcasm” The left: “evil intentions”
Uh-huh, yeah, sure.
So steve–
Tell us about all your Black friends at the Kountry Klub?
Puddy is a great guy…willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. You had him fooled for awhile with all your “I can relate” “I was born a po’ black chil” nonsense.
Eventually you revealed that you are nothing more than another phoney using Blacks to promote a failed Socialist ideology.
I suppose you can fool lots of folks.
Puddy gave you the benefit of the doubt, didn’t he?!
Yet you showed your Jesse Jackson side waaaay too often.
Phoney.
@127, 128 LMFAO!
Steve
While I admire your tenacity, trying to reason with Puddy and Cynical is like trying to talk a turd back up the ass.
@130
PROUD LEFTIST finally has a friend.
We knew all the time you would find something on this site that you would have common ground with.
You must be a happy guy finding talking turd.
Now we hope to hear less of your rubbish.
@130 and 131, Speaking of turds, talking to walls, and common ground, I’ve condensed wingnuttery down to six words, “Our shit don’t stink, your’s does.” Take Puddy for instance, and his pathetic “you’re talking to a wall” attempts to debate Don Joe in recent weeks. The whole premise of Puddy’s argument has been, “Our shit don’t stink, your’s does.” Hell, that’s the gist of just about every troll post. Of course, these posts are also steeped in the further common ground they share of self-loathing, hate, bigotry and racism. Any discussion by the reality-based, those who know that turds do stink, with these non-reality-based freaks is rather pointless, I’d say. Besides that, they’re known to fuck goats.
129. Steve spews:
Laughing…but no answer steve.
You are such a phoney.
Pretendin’ to be a bro’.
What’s that all about Steve Martin??
Steve spews “I was born a poor Black child”
My ass.
Typical LEFTIST hypocrite that more & more Blacks will come to see are using them.
133: “Typical LEFTIST hypocrite that more & more Blacks will come to see are using them.”
Yeah, that’s likely to happen. Of course, Republicans would never use minorities for crass, partisan purposes (well, except for Clarence Thomas, Michael Steele, Bobby Jindal, and some others, far too numerous to name).
Is Bobby Jindal black??
Wow.
@133 LMFAO again!!
@134 “Republicans would never use minorities (italics mine) for crass, partisan purposes”
@135 “Is Bobby Jindal black??”
No. I hope this helps, Mr. Klynical.
We all remember the DNC busing blacks out to events to show black support. Think they gave them free tobacco so they would die without talking.
The day will soon be here when real black men will hold their heads high have a their child’s hand in one hand and his wife’s in the other. saying I don’t work for Jesse Jackson or Walters or any of you phony black/white trash who says where Friends. Friends don’t allow friends to be walked on for over 70 years. Your not my friend.
Cynical @ 135
See how Steve (@137) can read, but you can’t? That’s kind of a major disability with you and your ilk. You approach every issue from such a steeped ideological perspective that you can’t even recognize how issues are framed. I suspect it’s too late for you to get educated, but that doesn’t mean we don’t get to feast upon your weaknesses (which are legion).
@138 Complete Moron
How many non-sequitors, insipid grammatic mistakes and twisted pieces of logic can one idiot put in a single sentence?
Never mind, the “truth” answered my question already:
The person who wrote this tripe is not able speak the English language and is also not able to process a logical thought to a conclusion.
The only phony on the issue of race on this blog is Puddy – he supports the racist party and tries to make excuses for the republican racists by going back to the old days of democrats in the south and trying to pretend as if that applied to today.
The republicans rule the white southerner voters for a good reason – they appeal to the base racist instincts of their southern constituents.
Wow, Puddy was busy today and look at all the commentary. You HA weasels are too kind.
BTW clueless wonder, you were wrong on Mark Foley. Wow whudathunk clueless wonder got another one wrong…and what you jealous you weren’t given the right equipment to use? Maybe God knew it’d go to waste?
NutRight,
WHAT the CRAP are you babbling about? Let’s start with the inner city. It’s the racist Democratics who take Black votes and don’t fix up the cities. Your gang is in charge fool. Where are the expenditures to improve things? NOWHERE moron. You haven’t lived in Puddy’s shoes. You haven’t been on the other side of the tracks with poor educational facilities. Do you think Puddy got into a good university because of my good looks? The reason Puddy hates OREO is because that’s what one was called by his own people when a black strived to do well in skuul fool! That’s why YOU NutRight are/is a big time moronic fool.
If Steve truly grew up like a black man he’d know this. But sadly I doubt he understands!
Uhh, what did Bush do for the last 8 years for the inner cities?
Can you name anything that the republicans have done that has improved the cities?
No child left behind is an unfunded failure.
Scuuuse me Puddy – but I went to an inner city school that was one of the poorest in the country – so don’t give me your crap about what I don’t know. My Junior HS was 98% minority, my HS was over 75% minority. I have lived through the “inner city schools”.
I agree that the Oreo term is ridiculous – but successful African Americans who forget about their roots and parade their “conservative” credentials are also full of it. They foret their brothers and sisters who are left behind and think just becuase they made it – that somehow it is easy to do that.
Yes – they were successful and it is possible – but there are also a lot of African American kids who never get the chance to succeed and have to fight the system.
And the republicans are against the lunch program, early childhood ed., paying teachers more, smaller classes and increased financial aid for colleges. These are all things that help.
When have the republicans supported education as much as the F-22 or Iraq?
When have the republicans concentrated on education in the inner cities versus tax cuts for the rich?
Hmmm – let’s see you find anything on republican initiatives in the last 8 years to rpomote inner city education.
And vouchers – shown not to work. vouchers are just an old idea that doesn’t work, but the republicans keep trotting it out.
@143
If LOSER BOY would throw his 3 trillion into education this year and hold off on the health care for 3 years. When would we see higher performance levels from our kids and our teachers? I don’t want to hear education needs to be groomed for 30 years before it can be a producer. Or wait until the next Generation.
Your dreams have come true now act like a grownups and show us results.
NutRight, so if you grew up in a minority school system why the attitude? Your peeps control the inner cities since the Great Society of the mid 60s.
So you know their control keep my peeps in poverty, drugs, stupid schools, etc. Puddy gave the Google coordinates where Puddy lived in Philly. IT WASN’T THE BURBS.
Great job stealing my peeps votes with nothing in return. Puddy calls it taxation without representation.
How about No Child Left Behind fool!
Successful African Americans give back to their peeps fool. Unfortunately when we do we’re ridiculed as “you are only doing it because you feel guilty.” WTF? This attitude eventually drives one from being a Big Brother or Big Sister because the people in charge see how you treat your kid and they scream you are doing more than the “average guy”. Difficult to be part of a program which ridicules you for being generous to someone less fortunate.
So NutRight, not being from my side of the tracks, walk a mile in Puddy’s shoes before you criticize the PuddyAttitude.
@145: Show the data that says that NCLB has done anything for inner city schools – you can’t and there is none. NCLB is an unfunded mandate – it just produces teaching to the test and lowers real education.
Really, I thought you were a proponent of free choice and individual responsibility. Except when you can blame the democrats for soemthing they didn’t do. I suppose the democrats MADE the poor school system in the inner city poor. The democrats MADE the tgood teachers go to the burbs where the salary was higher.
There are also parts of Philly that have a much higher average income than any of the schools I went to. I have been to South Philly, NE and other areas.
Just because it is a Brownstone area doesn’t mean it is not a middle class neighborhood sometimes in Philly. Yes, there are some really pooor areas – but there are also some not so poor, working class areas. And Philly votes democratic because the republicans don’t do anything for the people.
What have republicans done for health care?
What have the republicans done for education?
The funniest thing is you trying to cite NCLB – what has it done?
@144: 3 Trillion would not be sufficient to remedy your lack of education. A frontal lobotomy and antipsychotics would be a start, however.
“Puddyattitude”
That must be Puddy’s way of saying “batshit crazy”.
Puddy – keep destroying the Klowns.