Hell, Israel started a war over a kidnapped soldier, but the minute we feel pressure we just pull up our checkpoints and abandon one of our soldiers in the hands of the Shiite militia. Republicans talk about how we need to win the war in Iraq, but the truth is, we’ve already lost it. It’s time to bring the troops home.
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I used to think that klake was so irrelevant to the discussion because he abused the sauce so much.
My thinking has changed. There a slight chance he may be sober – in the traditional sense.
What he’s stinking drunk on is wingnut bullshit.
My thinking has changed. There a slight chance he may be sober – in the traditional sense.
What he’s stinking drunk on is wingnut bullshit.
Commentby For the Clueless— 11/1/06@ 8:04 pm
Clueless love and kisses for you too. May lucy and you join each other in matrimony.
The Cafferty video was right on target. But klake thinks that Kerry botching a joke is more important. This is the kind of country you get when all the politicians have sold out to the corporations. No heart, no soul, no moral compass.
To see these little righty trollfucks leaping and spinning with joy because NOW they have an “issue”….They even know they are lying and that gives them even more satisfaction. Your lying has caught up with you.
No one’s buying it.
we just pull up our checkpoints and abandon one of our soldiers in the hands of the Shiite militia. Republicans talk about how we need to win the war in Iraq, but the truth is, we’ve already lost it. It’s time to bring the troops home.
Goldy that was a great point of view but it is lacking in substance. Maybe you should live like an Indian that’s American. You do not understand the art of War and politics do not play into the battle field if you want to win a war. You stick to what you do best but don’t tell those who are in the battle field how to do their job. You lack neither all the information nor the commentator who was running off at the mouth. To win a war you have to trust those who are fighting the war nor a reporter who is after his ratings.
They even know they are lying and that gives them even more satisfaction. Your lying has caught up with you.
No one’s buying it.
Commentby headless lucy— 11/1/06@ 8:29 pm
Nice try Lucy but it is a move on dot org spin and you can do better. Maybe you should try another vantage point.
Hell, Israel started a war over a kidnapped soldier
And Shrubya will as well – with Iran. They control al Sadr, right?
It wouldn’t surprise me.
PLEASE tell me you are NOT taking klake the (not) droll troll seriously.
PLEASE.
Talk about disrespecting the troops. Fuck this administration.
Andrew Sullivan: “This is no longer an election – it’s an intervention”
I’m calling for Moveon.org in Eastern WA this Thurs. Who you callin’ for klake? staythecourseadapttowin.dumbassrepublitroll
Your sides lost momentum. Face it. Your moment in the sun has come and gone. It won’t bother me if we lose this time around. This whole house of cards is coming down — and youare going with it.
Hey lucy –
Here is a riddle for you…
Q. What do klake and Darcy Burner have in common?
A. Neither will be representing the 8th District of Washington in the Congress next year.
Anyone here see the coincidence of increased violence in Iraq and the US elections? Think there is anyone over there trying to influence our vote?
Good thing Goldy is on the watch – someone needs to spread the propaganda that Iran and Sadr are putting out. CNN can’t do all the heavy lifting.
First Nancy Pelosi
Then Howard Dean
And now John Fucking Kerry
Not to mention ALgore….
And you guys think you will win… LMAO…
Gosh it must feel good being a wingnut these days. The denial has to be so thick, they may as well be living in Egypt.
Hey Wingnuts, name one thing Bush has done RIGHT in Iraq…..
(crickets chirping)
Our soldiers joined to defend our great nation, and are only being used as political pawns by a retarded psychopath, without a single working brain cell.
The only people more treasonous than our president are the ones that still block out all reality to keep supporting him, and his criminal party.
It must suck living in Denial and pretending Republicans are good for the country…..
You know what is great Wingnuts. All Facts Support My Positions.
No Facts Support Your Positions.
Go ahead and spew out all the Right Wing Taling Points you want, and I will prove each, and every one wrong.
I live in the real world!
Now every right wing freak wants Kerry to apologize.
When is Bush going to apologize for starting a war, and killing or injuring tens of thousands of American Troops attacking a country that didn’t attack us, while the people that did attack us are running free plotting more attacks???
Bush should apologize, and then resign. He could spend the rest of his days while free with Harriett Myers plotting his defense when he is marched off to the Hague!!!
Our soldiers joined to go after the people that attacked us on 9-11 (Like Pat Tillman), and got stuck occupying some 3rd world shithole so Bush could win an election, and impress retarded bloodthirsty wingnuts.
Gotta suck being a soldier these days knowin the president would kill a thousand soldiers before ever admitting a single mistake….
So now Mike McGavick is attacking Bush over Iraq. I guess that means Mikey is a CUT AND RUN sort of guy?
And we should cut and run according to Bush. The righties went nuts when Dems last year said we should work with other nations in controlling the Iraq problem. Now we see that our soldiers are taking orders from another government. You’d think that the righties would REALLY go nuts over that. But once again, it’s all situational ethics for these assholes.
Janet,
“Anyone here see the coincidence of increased violence in Iraq and the US elections? Think there is anyone over there trying to influence our vote?”
For the sake of argument, let’s assume that the increase in violence is, indeed, someone’s nefarious attempt to influence this election. Wouldn’t the most logical conclusion be that such nefarious elements want the Republicans to remain in power? Doesn’t that mean that the Republicans are really the terrorists’ most effective allies?
So bozos why did Kerry apologize?
Um. ‘Cause he stepped on his tongue as many progressive people on this very blog have pointed out numerous times.
Now, answer my question. Why are you more interested in attacking John Kerry than you are interested in attacking our enemies?
Let see… get rid of Saddam, help vacinate 98% of the children for polio, begin the setting of a government (shacky, but as stable as one led by dems), allow for the creation of over 5000 new business this qtr… some good and more, but the media don’t cover that….its not good for business and is against their thought plan.
Things are going bad in 15% of Iraq and the killing is bad. There needs to be more support, but how bad will it be if your idea of just leaving would be? More deaths there and then more here. Don’t you think that the terrorists will be embolden if we leave? You should since their own leaders have said that. If they can get the libs to pressure the US to quit then they will have a strong footing for years to come, if they lose they will take a serious setback.
Makes sense to me and most…..does it to you? If not, why not? Or do you beleive we leave there and attack the terrorists elsewhere? Or really if we leave how long till we have to go back?
“So bozos why did Kerry apologize?”
To get on with his life. Get one yourself. It’s not so bad.
“So bozos why did Kerry apologize?”
Gawd, at last a question from a conservative that doesn’t start out with, “Now answer this…YES or NO…”
“So bozos why did Kerry apologize?”
For the same reason that Trent Lott did? Do I win the pony?
Don Joe – The terrorists step up the attacks, kill as many Iraqis and US soldiers as possible. Situation looks hopeless, and winless. Democrats cry for immediate withdrawal to cut our losses as quickly as possible. Americans feel vulnerable, elect Democrats.
Democrats in power, withdraw troops in the next 30 days. Vaccuum of power, repeat of the Vietname fiasco. Terrorists win the day, and now have a whole country to themselves.
I don’t get why you think the terrorists increasing their activity is anything but an attempt to demoralize the US citizenry, and thereby hope for a democrat takeover. Troops lose, Democrats win.
I predict a dramatic dropoff of violence after next Tuesday.
“So bozos why did Kerry apologize?”
To get to the other side of the street?
Don Joe: Who are our enemies?
ProudBeingDonkAss:
Didn’t Kerry have a life? Wasn’t he on your side of the street already? Kerry and Trent Lott equivalents?
Wow moonbats I can answer three entries in one answer. Why do moonbats use Furball-speak to see themselves with un-pithy one liners?
http://mediamatters.org/items/200611010012
“That Liberal Media” having a field day reporting on Kerry’s botched joke as if it was a serious criticism of the troops.
How are the right wing conspiracy theorists going to explain this one?
So far, the only broadcast news outlet I’ve seen re-print the text of Kerry’s actual speech has been Fox. Now, that’s scary!
Bush finally has something new to lie about!
Kerry’s gaff!
See moonbats I can play along right with you.
“I predict a dramatic dropoff of violence after next Tuesday.”
I predict you are an idiot Ms.Janet. Here’s why:
The terrorists step up the attacks, kill as many fellow Iraquis as they can. Situation looks hopeless, and winless. Republicans cry for immediate jailing of Democrats to end the enabling and obstruction as quickly as possible. Americans feel vulnerable, republicans cancel elections since all the Democrats are in jail.
Republicans in power, and still lose the war. With all Democrats in jail there is nobody to blame. Vaccuum of power, repeat of the Vietname(SIC) fiasco. Terrorists win the day, and now have a whole broken down country to themselves.
I don’t get why you think the Republicans increasing their activity is anything but an attempt to demoralize the US citizenry, and thereby hope for a fascist takeover. Republicans win, democracy snuffed out. What more could the terrorists ask for?
Clear enough?
[DIFFERENT PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT AGES, ETHNICITIES SAYING EACH OF THESE LINES]
I believed it when I was told we were invading Iraq because Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.
I believed it when I was told “mission accomplished” three years ago.
I believed it when I was told the insurgents were just “dead enders” in their “last throes.”
I believed it when I was told (over and over) we had “turned the corner” in Iraq.
I believed it when I was told that purple fingers meant we had established democracy in Iraq.
I believed it when I was told that we would leave once we had established democracy.
I believed it when I was told that we would be pulling our troops out in Spring of this year, then in the fall of this year, then in 12 to 18 months, and then, three months later, 12 to 18 months… again.
I believed this stuff for a while. But when nothing I was told turned out to be true or accurate, I quit believing.
ELDERLY WOMAN: George Bush and [REPUB CANDIDATE NAME] were the ones telling me these things. I don’t believe them anymore.
ANNOUNCER (OR CANDIDATE): Vote [DEM CANDIDATE]. It’s time for the truth.
[STANDARD DISCLAIMER]
“Didn’t Kerry have a life?” That’s still an open question.
“Wasn’t he on your side of the street already?” He was before he crossed it.
“Kerry and Trent Lott equivalents?” Both are lifetime politicians with foot in mouth disease, but at least John Kerry is not a racist pimp glorifying the traitors who attacked my country at Fort Sumpter in 1860.
Oh, by the way, MWS–kiss my ass.
“See moonbats I can play along right with you.”
Yeah, sure. But you generally lose.
I can play along right with you.
Sure can WOS. How’s that Gorelick wall bullshit going?
Janet,
Let’s deconstruct some of these assumptions:
“The terrorists step up the attacks…”
Um. No. A vast majority of the violence in Iraq now is internicene squabling between tribes that have been squabling for centuries, maybe even millenia. The most significant threat to American soldiers in Iraq is Muqtada Al-Sadr and his militia. They’re the ones whose kidnapping of American soldier led to the seige of Sadr City (over which we just capitulated, by the way; is that what you folks mean when you talk about “cut and run”?) When American troops leave Iraq, Al-Sadr’s militia no longer has a reason to exist.
Now, Muqtada Al-Sadr is a Shiite cleric. He will have nothing to do with Osama bin Laden and his band of warring Wahabbists, and neither will Osama bin Laden have anything to do with any Shiite cleric. Osama bin Laden and his band hate Shiites almost as much as they hate us. Our true enemies, the ones actually responsible for the events of 9/11, would like nothing more than to have American troops engaged in battle with a Shiite militia.
“Americans feel vulnerable, elect Democrats.”
What?! I thought we were supposed to be electing Republicans when we feel vulnerable. All of a sudden, we’re supposed to be electing Democrats out of fear? Disgust, maybe, but not fear. Fear is the Republican trump card.
“Terrorists win the day, and now have a whole country to themselves.”
I read that, and I don’t know whether to feel sorry for such pathetically uninformed thinking or to be pissed off over the fact that people who are so incredibly stupid actually have the right to vote. Ironic that Republicans stand as the most convincing evidence of the efficacy of a republican form of government.
But, no, there simply aren’t enough terrorists to have sufficient resources to assume power in Iraq. The real power in Iraq lies with the Shiite clerics and the Sunni Shaykhs, the latter being the tribal leaders who have ruled that region since before Muhammad was born. They are the ones who will step in and assume control, at least control of the Sunni triangle. The Shiites will have control of the south, and the Kurds will have control of the north.
So why not actually adopt the program that several Democrats have put forward–namely a tri-partite government with some form of federal, or confederate, government that can oversee such things as the distribution of oil revenues? Sure beats “stay the course,” and it’s way better than the cut and run we just saw occur with the seige of Sadr City.
“I don’t get why you think the terrorists increasing their activity is anything but an attempt to demoralize the US citizenry, and thereby hope for a democrat takeover.”
Perhaps, because the actual facts on the ground in Iraq tell a very different story? My apologies if the facts happen to burst the nice little fantasy you’ve cooked up for yourself, but I prefer working out policies that are based on reality.
Having said that, I should note that the actual facts on the ground are more consistent with the notion that our enemies really want our troops to stay in Iraq. What a wonder Ramadan gift for bin Laden: two of his most ardent enemies killing each other off. What could be better for him?
By the way, Sucking Webb, I note that you haven’t answered my question: Why are you more interested in attacking John Kerry than you are interested in attacking our enemies? Is it because you, like your President Hero, don’t spend a lot of time thinking about him? For the life of me, I really don’t understand how someone can claim to be looking out for American interests and not send much time thinking about bringing down bin Laden, but that’s our President.
Don Joe – Sadr is being financed by Iran. Without the money to pay off all the “insurgents” he would be just another cleric in search of a cause. He is being used by Iran to keep Iraq unstable. If we leave, Iran fills in for Sadr and takes over the in his place. Yes, he will be irrelevant after our elections, but for very different reasons than you state.
If we get Iran out of the political mix, then the Iraqis can figure this out for themselves. Iran does not want a free country next to theirs, they have too many citizens who yearn for freedom. They have a stake in getting us out, and instituting a theocracy in the void created by a Democrat quick withdrawal.
If the Iraqis are left to their own, they will develop a robust republic. The Kurds have already done it in their territory, and the Shiities have established the south as their region. They just need to figure out how to empower the Sunnis.
Maybe I am too much of an optimist, but I honestly believe that people want to be free. Iranian mullahs and Bathiists want to squelch this. The Democrat early withdrawal enable both these groups, while demoralizing all those who want freedom.
The democrat must go down, and down hard.
We have come to the point where a new machine invented in England deprives millions of Chinese workers of their livelihood within a year’s time.
In this way, big industry has brought all the people of the Earth into contact with each other, has merged all local markets into one world market, has spread civilization and progress everywhere and has thus ensured that whatever happens in civilized countries will have repercussions in all other countries.
Sound Familiar I think we are seeing a repeat of histury and we are not going to be on the winning end of this re ruin
The bourgeoisie annihilated the power of the aristocracy, the nobility, by abolishing the entailment of estates – in other words, by making landed property subject to purchase and sale, and by doing away with the special privileges of the nobility. It destroyed the power of the guildmasters by abolishing guilds and handicraft privileges. In their place, it put competition – that is, a state of society in which everyone has the right to enter into any branch of industry, the only obstacle being a lack of the necessary capital.
The introduction of free competition is thus public declaration that from now on the members of society are unequal only to the extent that their capitals are unequal, that capital is the decisive power, and that therefore the capitalists, the bourgeoisie, have become the first class in society.
You can’t bring the troops home until the cancer that is islamofacism is stunted. Bring them home now, and your kids fight a huge world war in the near future. Of course if you like sticking your head in the sand, you won’t have to worry about anything. Nice way to live.
http://www.marxists.org/
Janet,
The primary motivation for Iranian funding of al-Sadr is his opposition to American troops. That, in and of itself, doesn’t guarantee al-Sadr taking control once American troops leave. In fact, it augurs in the other direction.
If you want to figure out what would likely happen in the event of an American troop withdrawal from Iraq, you have to take into account Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. Don’t forget that al-Sadr’s army attempted to lay seige to al-Sistani, and the tribes, both Shiite and Sunni, took al-Sistani’s side. If the Iranians want to take on al-Sistani via al-Sadr by proxy, they’re going to lose.
Lastly, while a significant part of your premise consists of a supposedly immediate withdrawal of American troops from Iraq as a consequence of Democratic control of our government, this has all the earmarks of a straw man. While some Democrats have called for immediate withdrawal, I don’t see that as reflecting the views of the majority of Democrats. As I pointed out, several Democrats have backed a plan one effect of which would be to completely diffuse Iran’s support of al-Sadr. I can only note that you’ve completely ignored that point, and posited a straw man in its stead.
No, Janet, what’s at stake, here, is our President’s stated objective of keeping American troops in Iraq until his term ends, at which point the problem he has created merely becomes someone else’s problem. I can’t imagine a more irresponsible foreign policy. Does that really reflect true Republican values? Is that what your parents taught you, that’s OK to make the most horrible mess imaginable, and leave it to someone else to clean up after you’ve left office?
No more idealogues. It’s time for some pragmatists to come into power. Pragmatists solve problems, because they don’t have any sacred cows. Republicans have far too many sacred cows to which they are willing to sacrifice the lives of our young soldiers. Time to turn those sacred cows into hamburger.
Who wants to bring the kids home? I say send every last one of them over there and get the job done like you did in the last great war Dip Shit
Joe Libertarian, the cancer that is Islamofascism is in Afghanistan. It never was in Iraq to begin with, and won’t have a reason to be in Iraq once we leave. If Islamofascism is really the enemy you want to fight, then Iraq is the wrong place to be.
That, though big industry in its earliest stage created free competition, it has now outgrown free competition;
that, for big industry, competition and generally the individualistic organization of production have become a fetter which it must and will shatter;
that, so long as big industry remains on its present footing, it can be maintained only at the cost of general chaos every seven years, each time threatening the whole of civilization and not only plunging the proletarians into misery but also ruining large sections of the bourgeoisie;
hence, either that big industry must itself be given up, which is an absolute impossibility, or that it makes unavoidably necessary an entirely new organization of society in which production is no longer directed by mutually competing individual industrialists but rather by the whole society operating according to a definite plan and taking account of the needs of all.
Second: That big industry, and the limitless expansion of production which it makes possible, bring within the range of feasibility a social order in which so much is produced that every member of society will be in a position to exercise and develop all his powers and faculties in complete freedom.
It thus appears that the very qualities of big industry which, in our present-day society, produce misery and crises are those which, in a different form of society, will abolish this misery and these catastrophic depressions.
What will this new social order have to be like?
Above all, it will have to take the control of industry and of all branches of production out of the hands of mutually competing individuals, and instead institute a system in which all these branches of production are operated by society as a whole – that is, for the common account, according to a common plan, and with the participation of all members of society.
It will, in other words, abolish competition and replace it with association.
MEASURE THE COULTER-BEAST FOR A PINK JUMPSUIT!
“Coulter Refuses to Cooperate in Voting Probe
“Columnist May Have Voted in Wrong Florida Precinct
“By BRIAN SKOLOFF, AP
“WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (Nov. 1) – Conservative columnist Ann Coulter has refused to cooperate in an investigation into whether she voted in the wrong precinct, so the case will probably be turned over to prosecutors, Palm Beach County’s elections chief said Wednesday. … Knowingly voting in the wrong precinct is a felony punishable by up to five years in prison.”
This article is quoted under Fair Use; for complete story and/or copyright see http://tinyurl.com/yfkgdf
Roger Rabbit Comment: Man this whore isn’t aging well! She looks every day of her 45 years in recent photos. Must be a combination of menopause and syphillis.
Socialist, reading Marx can be fun, but there are, essentially, two problems with Marxism. The first is that it’s predicated on the notion that there exists some objective notion of “value” upon which we can reasonably conclude that there is something there that capitalists can expropriate from the proletariat. Unfortunately, Marx, as great a thinker as he was, spent a good portion of Das Kapital trying to do just that–namely define “value”–and couldn’t. He managed to convince himself of it, but the definition just hasn’t stood up to reality.
Second, and more importantly, Marxism is just another ideology. As I’ve said in this thread elsewhere, we really aren’t going to move forward merely by replacing one set of idealogues with another set of idealogues. Idealogues have this nasty habit of sacrificing the lives and well-being of humans, and maybe rabbits too (hello Roger), for the sake of perpetuating their ideology.
Reality. It’s an alternative to ideology. It’s where I prefer to live.
Moreover, since the management of industry by individuals necessarily implies private property, and since competition is in reality merely the manner and form in which the control of industry by private property owners expresses itself, it follows that private property cannot be separated from competition and the individual management of industry. Private property must, therefore, be abolished and in its place must come the common utilization of all instruments of production and the distribution of all products according to common agreement – in a word, what is called the communal ownership of goods.
In fact, the abolition of private property is, doubtless, the shortest and most significant way to characterize the revolution in the whole social order which has been made necessary by the development of industry – and for this reason it is rightly advanced by communists as their main demand.
So, Roger, is the Coulter-geist a distant relative of HA’s very own christmasghost?
By the way, I should point out that I posted the link that Goldy posted above in
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So, Roger, is the Coulter-geist a distant relative of HA’s very own christmasghost? Commentby Don Joe— 11/1/06@ 11:42 pm
They descended from the same ape. No detectable evolution in either case.
I hate it when the links get eaten during the post, so let’s try this again. The comment I posted can be found here.
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Bring them home now, and your kids fight a huge world war in the near future. Commentby Joe Libertarian— 11/1/06@ 11:25 pm
I remember when guys like you said we had to stop the commies in Vietnam or they’d be on the Golden Gate Bridge. (You guys thought everyone in S.F. is a commie anyway, so what was the problem with that?)
I think he defines value very realistically. It all ways shocks me that he was writing this in 1847 or so and you can still see the same processes he is talking about happening today all over the place.
The capitalist want the cheapest labor they can find so they send all the jobs to china the jobs that they can’t send to china they import illegal immigrant that they can pay very little or in some cases not at all. That is why they will never build a fence across the border or really guard it. But then they use it as a political issue to make you vote against your own interest .. The Capitalist are very intelligent . But I think reality will finally catch up with them. I hope so any ways But I may be wrong . Smart people like you seam to have an un ending stupidity about you.
Believe me you are not in there class and never will be. There are very very few people in the world who are. And they are replacing white collier jobs as fast as there out sorcing the blue collar ones. But I imagine you will still be babbling the conservative line as your standing with the rest of us in the soup lines.
Socialist, the problem with Marx’ definition of “value” is that it can’t explain why we have DVD players priced in range from $50 to $5000. There’s very little difference between the labor that made the $50 DVD player and the labor that manufactured the $5000 DVD player.
The phrase, “product differentiation” just wasn’t in Marx’ vocabulary, and, in his world, the only form of competition was price competition. Throw feature competition into the mix, and Marx’ whole house of cards comes tumbling down.
Following closely on the heels of the violent attack on a blogger journalist by Republican goons in the George Allen campaign, a deranged Republican heckler threw a drink at singer Barbra Streisand because he was upset by a skit in Streisand’s show poking fun at George W. Bush.
What is it with Republicans? They’re all sociopaths! Liberals must arm for our own safety.
Things will be different here in the park after the Rabbit Nation gets the bomb! No more dogs!
Now, however, the development of big industry has ushered in a new period. Capital and the forces of production have been expanded to an unprecedented extent, and the means are at hand to multiply them without limit in the near future. Moreover, the forces of production have been concentrated in the hands of a few bourgeois, while the great mass of the people are more and more falling into the proletariat, their situation becoming more wretched and intolerable in proportion to the increase of wealth of the bourgeoisie. And finally, these mighty and easily extended forces of production have so far outgrown private property and the bourgeoisie, that they threaten at any moment to unleash the most violent disturbances of the social order. Now, under these conditions, the abolition of private property has become not only possible but absolutely necessary.
I think the abolition of private property would be a good idea It could belong to all of us as citizens of washington like they do it on the Indian reservations. You can’t buy land on the reservation but you buy a 99 year lease. I think that is a good idea.
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that is because the capitalist are ripping us off . Haven’t you figure that out yet . They make a pair of nikes for probably about a dollar and then sell them to us for 100 dollars.
How do you think the CEO can pay them selves 500 times what a worker makes. There ripping us off all the time. And you have to realize Marx was writing about 1847 capitalist. It has gotten a lot worse sense then .
And yes they will make some the poorest people can buy to . But the shit you get at wall mart falls apart practically before you even get it home.
I think Liberals should become heavily armed!!!
“that is because the capitalist are ripping us off . Haven’t you figure that out yet . They make a pair of nikes for probably about a dollar and then sell them to us for 100 dollars.”
I haven’t bought a pair of Nike shoes since I was in high school. We won’t say how long ago that was, but you completely miss the point. Nobody holds a gun to anyone’s head and forces them to buy $100 tennis shoes.
There are two forms of competition: competition based on price, and competition based on features. Competition based on features always garners a premium price. Why? Because people are willing to pay more money for perceived value, hence the problem with Marx’ theory. What objective standard do you use to determine that my purchase of $30 off-brand tennise shoes was any more or less rational than someone else’s purchase of $100 Nike’s? There isn’t one.
Like I said, “product differentiation” is a phrase that simply wasn’t a part of Marx’ lexicon, thus there is economic phenomena that Marx’ theory simply cannot explain.
I think real liberal should come out of the closet and join the socialist party http://sp-usa.org/ Go read the platform believe me you will be happy with it. The Democratic Party is just as bought and paid for as the republican party is. As youm can see the Democrats are constantly moving to the center to be more republican and totally ignoring what there base wants you no like national health care. If all the liberals left and formed up in the Socialist party the democratic party would collapse and die. And maybe it should. Like the old wig party. I am tired of the Democrats taking me for granted.
well i don’t think he is trying to explain that he is explaining the basics.
I think he says if the quality of the product is of higher value the price would be higher then a lower quality item . Im sure he covers that. It is all in the base price of the item and how much it cost to produce it . I think you are probably right he doesn’t go it to the marketing of the item of the propagandizing of things like sport stars wearing a brand so the fans naturally want to wear them to.
He is talking about the basics not the nuances
What will be the course of this revolution?
Above all, it will establish a democratic constitution,
You see marx talks about democrisy !!!! that is why I say a true socialist country has yet to really be tried yet.
Well veniswalea is the closest right now
Centralization of money and credit in the hands of the state through a national bank with state capital, and the suppression of all private banks and bankers.
We really need to do this one
Notice how Janet S like to attack Dems that want us out of Iraq but she won’t send her son over there to fight? Then again, as the son of Pam Roach, the kid is a felon and accordingly can’t get into the Army. Yet. The next thing you know they’ll lower their standards AGAIN so that they can make it look like they’re hitting quotas. And then maybe Janet S/aka Pam Roaches son, a convicted felon, can go defend his country in Iraq?
I think you are probably right he doesn’t go it to the marketing of the item of the propagandizing of things like sport stars wearing a brand so the fans naturally want to wear them to.
Galbraith does get into marketing. Read Galbraith instead of Marx. You’ll find something closer to reality, though Galbraith still misses the mark.
Second, when you use terms like “propagandizing,” you’re essentially positing the notion that some people’s purchasing decisions aren’t “rational” in some way. That’s what I mean by no objective notion of “value.” The only way you can use words like “propagandizing” is to inject a subjective notion of “value” into the model. That’s the point where the model breaks down.
Uneducated Poor People Vote For Darcy Burner
In a Survey USA poll, Congressman Dave Reichart, leads Darcy Burner 51% – 45%.
Dig a little deeper and you can see that amongst those with no college education, Reichart and Burner are tied, amongst those with some college Reichart leads 53% to 43%, those with a college degree Reichart leads 51% to 44% and those with graduate college, 48% to 46%. According to income bracket, the higher your income the more likely you are to vote for Reichart. <40K, Burner leads 52% – 45%, 40K to 80K 47%-47% and above 80K Reichart leads 56%-40%.
I am just waiting to hear the Burner camp attempt to make hay with the fact that the “rich” are for Reichart and the working class are for Burner when it is the uneducated and least able to provide for themselves that support Burner.
re 11: And Reichert won’t be representing the 8th either. He’ll just be there to RUBBERSTAMP everything the Bushistas tell him to with nary a thought for the 8th — except when they tell him to vote a certain way so he’ll look good in his district.
How do I know that’s what he’ll do?
BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT HE TOLD US HE’S DONE IN THE PAST AND WILL DO IN THE FUTURE!
Don’t throw your vote away on a losing party. Vote for Darcy Burner!!!!!!!!!!!
GBS!!! Soon!! Very soon!! [Thank you, John “Fing” Kerry!!!]
If you substitute the word “quality” for “value”, you solve the problem. The word “value” as used by Marx actually meant “quality”, as we understand that word today. We tend to think of the word VALUE in the sense of: “You’ll find a good value for your dollar at ‘Big Lots'”.
Hats off to Robert Pirsig.
re 82: Yes, thanks to John Kerry the subject of the election is now, once again, BUSH AND IRAQ!!!!!!!!!
It’s a referendum now on the Dunce in Chief and his failed policies.
JCH @ 77:
Yeah, you got that right! Very soon, bitch.
Then you’re gone!!!
Next Tuesday cannot come soon enough!
If you substitute the word “quality” for “value”, you solve the problem. The word “value” as used by Marx actually meant “quality”, as we understand that word today.
No, that doesn’t solve the problem. It merely introduces equivocation into the argument. What Robert Pirsig fails to notice, or maybe he does and he’s just being disingenuous, is how changing the meaning of the word “value” completely deranges the whole concept of “value” as being based on some aspect of the labor that goes into making something. There is no substantive difference between the labor of the folks who manufacture $50 DVD players and the labor of the folks who manufacture $5000 DVD players.
Let me also remind you that the point about idealogues has now fallen by the wayside. Why, pray tell, should we replace one set of idealogues with yet another set of idealogues? When are you folks going to figure out that people who strive to twiste reality into conforming to their pre-conceived notions of what ought to be really aren’t going to bring us to any better place than we are now?