Nearly two years after stating that any administration official found to have been involved in leaking the name of an undercover C.I.A. officer would be fired, and assuring that Karl Rove and other senior aides to President Bush had nothing to do with the disclosure, the White House refused on Monday to answer any questions about new evidence of Mr. Rove’s role in the matter.
Um… that’s because, contrary to prior statements, Karl Rove leaked the name of an undercover CIA officer, but he hasn’t been fired. So what’s White House press secretary Scott McClellan supposed to say? “Gee sorry… I guess I lied.”
Actually, reading about yesterday’s White House press briefing just doesn’t do it justice… you’ve got to watch the video (courtesy of Crooks and Liars.) My god… what a weasel:
There will be a time to talk about this, but now is not the time to talk about it.
And I’m guessing the time McClellan plans to talk about it will be a few years from now, during the book tour for his memoir.
It’s fun to watch the White House press corps finally getting a bit pissy after being lied to for all these years.
Rove should face the 10 years jail time for this, but he’s claiming ignorance. How fitting for “Bush’s Brain.”
Typical LEFTIST PINHEADS….guilty until proven innocent.
Trial by rumor.
I’m not saying that Rove didn’t do it.
I’m saying due process.
I didn’t see you PINHEADS get all upset by your fellow LEFTIST McDimwit. You are hopeless….I guess that’s what we ought to expect from fanatical pinheads.
Perhaps Goldy ought to change his name to one that is more suitable to the quality of his rantings…..
How about DAVID DRIVELSTEIN!
Will your Rabbi allow that Goldy???
Oh, I forgot you are a JINO!
Yeah, it doesn’t matter that there is yet to be a finding by the Grand Jury or even a statement of evidence collected by the special prosecutor. If and when, clear, concise and PROVEN evidence emerges, anyone, Rove included, should be fired and face punishment as determined by a court of law. Not a bunch of leftist “journalists” and 2 bit blogs. Don’t be such a partisan, hypocritical hack Goldy!
As I’ve stated before, Rove is far to smart to be cornered by the left.
He’ll dodge and evade this.
Hey, isn’t this tactic why Gregoire is on office?
When all is said and done it will all be “legal”.
Nothing is going to happen to Rove and we’ll be stuck with Queen Christine.
As so many on this board have previously said.
“Get Over It”
Scottie has now demonstrated that he is lower than Nixon’s own Ron Ziegler (aka Ziegliar) after the Press caught him in a series of Watergate lies. Zieg had the integrity to acknowledge that his prior statements to the Press were “no longer operative.” Now we know that Scott doesn’t even have Ron’s level of integrity.
prr, you fucker, there is NO comparison between Rove and Gregoire — how DARE you!!! Typical right wing tactic — they behave like Nazis, then when they’re called on it, they accuse the honest opposition of behaving like themselves! Fuck you — and fuck the horse you rode in on. Gregoire is an honorable leader, Rove is a criminal and a traitor who deserves to be shot by a firing squad.
Hey Cynical, you right wing sycophant, Rove ADMITTED he talked to a reporter about Plame. I’m pretty sure a grand jury indictment or even a jury conviction wouldn’t be enough for you. Yeah, I think Rove should get due process — at least as much due process as he, Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld gave to the innocents they rounded up in Iraq and Afghanistan and beat to death in their torture dungeons. Golden Rule, you know — treat Rove et al. like they treat others, I say. Lock ’em up and beat the shit out of ’em …
chimpy is so in trouble without his “brain”. Cheney is SUCH a mean fucker that he turns people off by the boatload which is why he is kept from sight. So no help there. georgie the “what me worry” kid (which is actually an insult to A.E.N.) NEEDS a handler in the worst way. Watch for Karen Hughes to come riding in on her broomstick…to rescue C+Augustus…again…as the Rovester is frog-marched to Federal Prison. Yum, yum! This is really getting good!
Of all the embarrassing incidents that have come to light about the Nazi Bush regime, few are more instructive or infuriating than the case of Sgt. Sean Baker, a Gulf War veteran, enlisted in the National Guard within minutes after the 9/11 attack because “I had to go back … I had to do something.” In November 2002, Sgt. Baker’s Guard unit was assigned to Guantanamo Bay. His job was to escort prisoners and walk the causeways of the detention facility.
At 2 a.m. on Jan. 24, 2003, Baker’s squad leader told his assembled unit, “somebody has to go for training.” Baker responded, “right here, sarge.” Baker was asked to take off his uniform, dress in an orange detainee jumpsuit, and role play an uncooperative prisoner so an Immediate Reaction Team (IRT) could practice prisoner extraction. When he questioned the assignment the officer in charge told Baker, “you’ll be fine.”
But it wasn’t fine. Somebody forget to tell the IRT members that Baker was a U.S. soldier and the exercise was a training drill. The IRT troops peppered sprayed Baker, repeatedly slammed his head against the concrete floor, and strangled him with choke holds.
That’s not the only thing the Army did to Baker. All training drills were routinely videotaped. But when the foul-up and Baker’s injuries became apparent, the tape of the soldiers beating up Baker was destroyed. There was an official inquiry, but the results came back more or less, “we didn’t find out anything, we don’t know anything, we can’t say anything.” The Army did not want any evidence of what it had done to one of its own to see the light of day — either in a court of law, or in the court of public opinion. And it did not want to be held responsible, and did not want any soldiers held responsible, for inflicting disabling injuries on Sean Baker.
Sgt. Baker suffered permanent brain damage. He has seizures several times a week — sometimes a dozen seizures a day. He was involuntarily retired from the military — despite his brutal treatment at the hands of fellow U.S. soldiers, he still wants to serve, but the Army won’t let him.
Not only that, but the Pentagon didn’t even want to pay Baker disability benefits. Baker had to fight for his veterans benefits, and it took months to get his first disability checks. Meanwhile, with Baker kicked out of the Army and denied benefits or medical care, his family subsisted on unemployment benefits. A federal law bars Baker from suing the Army or the people who nearly killed him for monetary damages.
Every time I hear a Republican demand that we support the troops, I laugh my fucking little furry bunny cottontail off. It is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard, because Republicans don’t support the troops. They use them, abuse them, then toss them aside. Fuck you, Republicans. We know what you are. You’re liars, you’re hypocrites, you’re torturers and murderers. We don’t have to take care of you — God will do it. Think about that.
I say let’s all “lobby” the entire mainstream media to award the above 2 posters a daily, frontpage column and a 10 minute national radio commentary on the likes of CBS/ABC or other radio network that people actually listen to. (Unlike AAR)
There is nothing more convincing to continue voting Republican than these 2 cerebral giants! (even more so than How-wierd Dean…the democratic gift to the republican party)
Wow! You guys pissed off the WRONG bunny!
Yum, yum, yum, YUM, YUM, YUM!!!
Comment on 6
What is needed now is for McClellan, Rove, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, and the rest of the GOP neo-Nazi gang to be rendered “inoperative.” How about impeaching Bush and Cheney, then prosecuting them and locking them up in a federal prison where all of these traitors belong!
Rabbit @ 7
Nope, I’d say right are exactly on par with one another
Rabbit at 10,
What a bunch of Bullshit
Rabbit @ 10….
Now tell the david Brame story, the State employee who was blanketed by a democratic State Governemnet, A rapist, who abused his wife & then shot and killed her & then himself.
His Co-Conspirators?
A city manager that was aware of tehse allegations and protected the Cop.
An Asistant police chief who helped try and intimidate his ex-wife with the threat of violence.
How are they punished? They are given early retirements with Full benefits, protected from prosecution, while the tax payer picks up the tab.
BTW, Who was attorney general when this happened?
WHERE DID IRAQ’S MISSING BILLIONS GO?
According to an investigation report by Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA), days before the handover of control to the new U.S.-installed Iraqi government, billions of dollars in cash representing frozen Iraqi assets held by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York was loaded on pallets and flown to Iraq, then handed out to contractors from pickup trucks who hauled it away in duffel bags.
“The disbursement of these funds was characterized by significant waste, fraud and abuse,” Rep. Waxman said in his report. U.S. auditors are unable to account for $8.8 billion of the Iraqi funds formerly held in U.S. government custody.
For the complete story see http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/062205X.shtml
Every time I hear a Republican use the “waste, fraud, and abuse” argument as an excuse to oppose taxes (“no taxes — no way, no how!”) and scuttle badly needed public projects, I laugh my little fucking bunny cottontail off at these hypocrites and liars. The only time they care about “waste, fraud, or abuse” is when public money is actually used to benefit the public, and they’re unable to steal it because there’s too much accountability and too many accounting controls.
Nah prr…It’s a bunch of non-sensical ramblings of a few with serious psychological disorders. Let’s just hope they get the intense in-patient therapy and medication they continue to so clearly demonstrate that they are in need of. there are “pink rooms” waiting for them both at “The Stelicoom Hilton”
Reply to 16
What part of the Sgt. Sean Baker story is untrue, asshole? Here’s a MSM source for ya, http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....2953.shtml, or you can google the topic and come up with more hits than you’ll ever have time to read. Baker’s case is now public knowledge and is absolutely true, you lying fucker.
Reply to 17
Braeme wasn’t a state employee, you lying fucker. He was the police chief of the city of Tacoma, hired by a corrupt city manager. Brame shouldn’t even have been a cop, he flunked the psychological exam when he was hired as a rookie patrol officer, but he was hired anyway. Guess why? His brother was a Tacoma cop with city hall pull, that’s why.
Tacoma is a cesspool with a long history of corruption, including a county prosecutor who went to prison. Tacoma is the only city in Washington with a significant organized crime presence. Tacoma is infamous for its gangs, crime, and shootings. Tacoma is rotten to the core, has been for decades, and no one has ever succeeded in cleaning it up.
So where the fuck do you get off blaming the Braeme scandal on Gregoire? She had NOTHING to do with it. As attorney general, she had no authority over Tacoma city government or the Tacoma police department. After the event, her office worked with the FBI, State Patrol, and other agencies in conducting an investigation.
Blaming Braeme on Gregoire is like blaming sunspots on Bill Clinton. Prr, you are a stupid moronic lying fuck, and everybody here on HorsesAss knows it!
re 2: Scurrying for cover, eh? Well use Rossi’s lawsuit as our model of reason and restraint in hurling unfounded accusations. Fair enough?
Comment on 12
The bunny is in a bad mood this morning. Maybe a second cup of coffee will help, but I doubt it. The problem is the lying, corrupt, right wing neo-Nazi Republicans are everything I say they are. The bunny will not be in a good mood until every Republican in the country has been locked up in a prison cell or rubber room, so the rest of us — the non-fascist segment of the U.S. population — can breathe normally and live normal lives again.
“waste, fraud and abuse” 3 things that Roger owes his so-called career to. At DSHS, this was and is their “Mission Statement” What else would have kept this pathetic moron employed there. Your tax dollars at work folks!
Reply to 24
Typical Republican liar trying to divert attention from Republican corruption by changing the subject. My state job brought in money for the taxpayers, so fuck you, IDGAG!!! I was well worth the modest salary I was paid to serve ingrates like you! That’s the disadvantage of public service — half the people you’re working for are liars, pricks, and assholes.
Reply to 21:
Let me get the straight.
You are actually saying the the atty general, the top law enforcement in the stae, has no Authority?
Reply @ 21….
After the event, they gave retirements to two people who should have been prosecuted.
But hey, we can just raise taxes and it won’t matter
P.S., DSHS is the most fucked up agency in state government and always has been, and don’t assume I was a DSHS employee for 30 years because I wasn’t, asshole.
Comment on 27
Well for once we agree, prr. Those two scumbags should have been thrown in prison and not paid a penny in salary, severance, or retirement benefits.
Reply @ 24,
Who is changing the subject?
If Rove did not ifentify her by name, than there is no problem.
Everyone involved has said he did not mention her by her NAME.
Letter of the Law Rabbit. IT Never has to do with Justice.
The left llives by the LETTER of the law, correct?
Rabbit @ 29,
And who was the Atty General on that little crime against the state?
Reply to 26
That’s correct, the state attorney general has NO AUTHORITY to run local governments, choose local government officials, appoint police chiefs, or even conduct investigations unless a formal complaint is filed. That’s as it should be — do you really want a state official to be given the power to interfere with and micromanage local governments? The appropriate solution to Tacoma’s corruption is to put the whole city government in receivership and have it managed by a court-appointed trustee with the management experience to run a city government and the integrity to purge the corrupt politicians and city employees. Of course, to do that, you would have to fire the whole city government and start from scratch …
Reply to 30
“If Rove did not ifentify her by name, than there is no problem.”
That’s bullshit, you fucking apologist for treason.
Reply to 31
Are you referring to Gregoire? What’s your point, prr? Get over it, Gregoire had NOTHING to do with the Tacoma city government cesspool or the Braeme scandal. Tacoma was not part of her job description, get it? No, you don’t get it, you fucking stupid moron liar.
Cynical… we don’t need a jury to tell us Rove leaked Plame to the press… Rove’s lawyer has already confirmed it. And as I’ve stated before, this is not simply about whether Rove technically broke the law, it’s about whether he violated the trust of the American people. Bush said he would fire somebody who did what Rove has now admitted to doing… and Rove should be fired.
Apparently, you guys on the right think lying about a blow job is grounds for removing a sitting president from office, but when a White House official publicly ID’s an undercover officer, jeopardizing the CIA’s WMD operations, that should just get a wink and a nod?
prr@17
Yeah baby, THAT was a national security issue. Great point, man.
Rove is a traitor who should be hanged or shot, and his right wing troll apologists on this board are unpatriotic anti-American pieces of shit.
Comment on 17
That fucking ignoramus prr can’t even get it straight that Braeme was a city employee, not a state employee. His mother must have dropped him out of a fourth-story window when he was little.
The bunny is in a bad mood today …
REPLY @ 34.
Rabbit, The results of her investigation were that the City was sued, the City Manager and the Assistant Chief of Police were given a cushy retirement package. The Kids were orpahnas and the Grandparents are now primary care givers, you think they have a reirement package out of this? No way.
She was the TOP law Enforcement official in the State, everything goes directly back to this being her responsibility.
Who is making aplogies?
As For Rove, Honestly? I say Shoot the Fucker and everyone else acting in a manner that could be considered treasonous.
However, the reality is he will not be held accountable, just as ALL Politicians Fuck over the citizens and we have to deal with it. Gregoire Included.
My complaint is when Jackasses such as yourself and that dipshit Goldy try and make arguments defending Big Government, or reasons to raise taxes, ot give more power to our Government.
Reply to 40
No, the results of her investigation were that the city was sued, and the city manager and acting police chief were fired. She had zero control over the cushy retirements, that was the city’s doing, and Gregoire didn’t run the city you lying asshole.
I’m in agreement with you as to what to do with Rove — shoot the traitorous bastard … and if Cheney was in on it, shoot him as a traitor, too! Same goes for Gee-Dub and anyone else who is found to have been in on it …
31, well thank God we now have a Republican attorney general. Who I bet is preparing a sweeping case against the Tacoma political establishment at this very moment. Yes, I will hold my breath that they will all be in jail by this time next year.
5, “As I’ve stated before, Rove is far to smart to be cornered by the left.”
No he’s not. He bit off more than he could chew this time. Did you see the reaction of the recently/usually docile WH Press Corps? He may not end up at Club Fed, but he’s done none the less.
That lying fuck prr is scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to find some excuse to attack Gregoire. He just can’t get over the fact that Gregoire won … these right wing Nazi bastards have to get their way, and if they don’t, they slander, smear, attack, and try to take people out. You would have done well as a KGB functionary in the Stalin regime, prr … you missed your calling … a sycophant and “yes” man to the core …
Rabbit, neither were fired,
They went through government loopholes.
Both retired,
As for Gregoire, stop making excuses for her. If anything, she defended these people.
Again, I state, nothing will come of the Rove situation.
Rujax,
is this a comparrison?
yes, I would say a pretty good one.
In one case, a woman ended up dead, in another, a woman no longer attended cocktail parties.
prr@40-
This Republican Administration has wasted money, killed, people, rigged elections, rigged Government contracts, invaded a sovereign nation under false pretenses, compromised national security over personal and political vendettas, squandered a huge budget surplus, cut funds that were going to individual States for Gov’t. mandated security and education services (causing Staes to have to RAISE TAXES to pay for the unfunded Gov’t. mandates), taken away citizen rights and civil liberties; and lied, lied, lied about the whole thing.
News Flash, Ol’ Buddy-
US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT EQUAL DEMOCRATS ANY MORE!
I repeat:
US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT EQUAL DEMOCRATS ANY MORE!
The Republican Party controls the Presidency and the Legislative branches and a majority of the Judiciary. This is all on you, guys. What a f’ing mess, too. I’m soooo glad the “Grown-Ups” are in charge.
Mayberry Machiavelli’s.
prr- There’s a bar open somewhere…go get your fix. You’ll feel better.
Goldy said “It’s fun to watch the White House press corps finally getting a bit pissy after being lied to for all these years”
You mean after Clinton’s secretary lied to us?
To get back on topic:
Five Reasons Why Karl Rove Must Be Destroyed
“US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT EQUAL DEMOCRATS ANY MORE!”
What the hell does that even mean?
In Resposne,
Washington state no Longer means Republicans are Democrats!
I repeat:
Washington state no Longer means Republicans are Democrats!
As For Rove, he should move to Washington State, where a warm retirement package awaits him.
I’ve got a question for you guys…What’s gonna happen to you folks when these guys go down.
We all talk a lot of smack, but we’re all just really normal people who get to say here what we can’t say in “polite” society.
So what’s up? These people lied. They said they were going to be honest, represent the regular folk, restore honor and dignity to the Government and the Office of the President, have the “Business Class” run this thing LIKE a business…with efficiency, transparency and responsibility. And a LOT of people bought it. LOTS of folks. What happens now? It’s always “the dream” that dies the hardest. Like when the wife or the girl (or boy), just up and leaves…it’s that dream that won’t die. What WILL you do?
prr@51-
See 48.
40
“However, the reality is he will not be held accountable, just as ALL Politicians Fuck over the citizens and we have to deal with it.”
One of the reasons people like Rove (and by extension Bush) get away with potentially treasonous behavior is because they are not held accountable by those in their own party, who put partisan loyalty ahead of all else (including the law). This manifests itself both in those who, out of partisan loyalty, lie, stonewall, dissemble, or in other ways try to downplay the significance of the allegations being made (i.e. politicians, normally) as well as those who, out of blind partisan loyalty, refuse or simply do not want to consider any evidence of wrongdoing by their own (citizens, usually).
It’s pretty hard these days to get the so-called “liberal” media to hold people like Rove accountable, they stopped doing that years ago. That said, the White House press corps did a pretty good job reeming Scotty McLellan yesterday, but then they probably had already taken more than a little umbrage at having been lied to — repeatedly. One can only hope that they’ll continue to do their job.
No, the best way to hold corrupt bastards like Rove accountable is for the citizens—who have been fucked over—to continue to press their elected officials to keep investigating. If the repubs show little or no concern—despite the gravity of the allegations, i.e. treason—then the chances of it happening diminish significantly.
Remember Watergate: WaPo coverage of Nixon’s perfidy was pretty well ignored for over a year.
RUJax @ 53,
A serious answer to you question.
I really wonder about this myself.
Democrat, republican, I really see no difference.
Basically, it’s the same lie with a different face.
To look at this simply, after 9/11, we had to react, Starting something in Afghansitan is just as stupid as starting something in Iraq.
The problems we are addressing are ones that do need to be addressed, how many times to you ignore attacks before you respond?
I don’t know how much of the Iraq information was fabricated and how much was just plain wrong. Any way about it, the majority of politicins bought that there were WMD’s in Iraq for YEARS, there was plenty of evidence and certainly plenty of deaths to back it up.
This war with Al Qaeda is certainly nowhere near finished, The Bush adminitsration will continue on this path and a New president in 2008 will have no choice but to continue this path.
We all offer plenty of snide remarks, but what are the answers?
I do not feel that pulling out of Iraq will accomplish anything, do you?
We can’t leave yet…we broke it, we gotta help fix it.
The whole press conference they just didn’t let up on poor scotty…. cracks me up. Bastard had to just stand there and take it.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news.....711-3.html
wow…roger rabbit…you are really out there, aren’t you?
this will go no where. valerie plame not only was NOT an undercover operative, but her husband is a washed up hack that was just trying to get attention for himself so he could be “important” again.
that will never happen either…….
To all you lefties out there who want to see Rove fry.
STOP ALREADY!
It ain’t gonna happen. If any of you think for one second that Rove won’t get a presidential pardon, like the pardons Bush’s daddy handed out to keep the Iran-Contra culprits out of prison, you’re only fooling yourselves.
Be satisfied in the fact that you know Rove’s only loyalty, like most conservatives, are to party and power and not to country. Be secure in the knowledge that your ideals are correct, your philosophy is sound, your moral principles are not compromised, and above all else your loyalty to our country and it’s constitution are unwavering despite the comments and actions of the traitorous Karl Rove.
I really hope that Bush pardons him in a way (if he gets nailed for a crime).
THAT will show what this administration is really about. It’d be like Nixon pardoning Colson.
Jimmynap @ 58
Thank you for posting the link, it was great reading. My only regret is that it took 4 1/2 years for the media to find their testicles again. If the media had been this focusued on the run up to the Iraq war, and all the blunders since, who knows how many American militry lives would have been saved.
Thanks again.
GBS @ 60
“It ain’t gonna happen. If any of you think for one second that Rove won’t get a presidential pardon, like the pardons Bush’s daddy handed out to keep the Iran-Contra culprits out of prison, you’re only fooling yourselves.”
You may well be right. But, in the mean time, there are two issues: (1) charging and trying Rove if, in fact, he committed a crime. (2) Bush’s promise two years ago that he would fire anyone who leaked the information (with no qualifications about being first charged or found guilty or whether Plames’ name was actually mention or implied).
Will Bush pardon Rove if he is found guilty of treason??? Please, let it be so! The sooner, the better!!!!
Roger@7,
That Gregoire is more complicit in wrongdoing than Rove could ever be. Rove can call up Gregoire for tactics!
The liberals are frothing at the mouth, but they have no case. Rove never told anyone she was an agent, only that she worked at the CIA. But then so did George Tennent, so I guess every reporter who ever mention his name to anyone else is also guilty of “outing”.
*YAWN* another day, another left wing spittle producing rant.
In the Cooper e-mails just surrendered by Time to the prosecutor looking into the Plame case, “Cooper wrote that Rove offered him a ‘big warning’ not to ‘get too far out on Wilson.’ Rove told Cooper that Wilson’s trip had not been authorized by . . . CIA Director George Tenet . . . or Vice President Dick Cheney. Rather, ‘it was, [Rove] said, Wilson’s wife, who apparently works at the agency on WMD [weapons of mass destruction] issues who authorized the trip.’ ”
There’s no mistaking the purpose of this conversation between Cooper and Rove. It wasn’t intended to discredit, defame or injure Wilson’s wife. It was intended to throw cold water on the import, seriousness and supposedly high level of Wilson’s findings.
While some may differ on the fairness of discrediting Joseph Wilson, it sure isn’t any kind of crime.
Rove was suggesting to Cooper that that folks lower down in the CIA than its own director commandeered the process so that the husband of one of their own could get the gig. And the husband in question then went and misrepresented his findings to various journalists (The Washington Post’s Walter Pincus and The New York Times’s Nicholas Kristof) and then in his own now-famous Times op-ed.
This Rove-Cooper conversation discredits Wilson, not Plame. In fact, nothing we know so far was done either with the purpose of exposing or even the knowledge that these remarks would be exposing an undercover CIA operative.
But Plame’s undercover status at the time was and is a little questionable in any case. How undercover could she have been when her name was published at the time as part of Joseph Wilson’s own biography online (see cpsag.com/our_team/wilson.html)?
So if the offense wasn’t against Plame, what of the offense against Wilson? There was no offense. As many of Joe Wilson’s own hottest defenders would no doubt argue in relation to President Bush, exposing a liar is not only not a crime, it’s a public service.
And Wilson lied. Repeatedly.
First off, Wilson long denied he was recommended for the job by his wife: “Valerie had nothing to do with the matter,” he writes in his book. “She definitely had not proposed that I make the trip.”
But the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence actually found the memo in which Valerie Plame recommended her husband for the job.
There were other lies as well. Wilson’s own report was far from definitive in any way on the question of whether Iraq was seeking uranium from Niger — thus giving the lie to his later bald claim that he came back insisting there was no link.
“The report on the former ambassador’s [Wilson’s] trip to Niger, disseminated in March 2002,” said the Senate Select Committee, “did not change any analysts’ assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on the uranium deal, but the State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) analysts believed that the report supported their assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq.”
Thus, Rove was telling Cooper the truth. According to one of Cooper’s e-mails, “not only the genesis of the trip is flawed an[d] suspect but so is the report. He [Rove] implied strongly there’s still plenty to implicate Iraqi interest in acquiring uranium fro[m] Niger . . .”
A few days later, for reasons that remain unexplained, the United States said it could no longer stand by the claim in the 2003 State of the Union that Saddam was seeking uranium in Africa.
But that retraction of Bush’s words remains hotly controversial. As a 2004 British inquiry chaired by Lord Butler put it: “We conclude that, on the basis of the intelligence assessments at the time, covering both Niger and the Democratic Republic of Congo, the statements on Iraqi attempts to buy uranium from Africa in the Government’s dossier, and by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, were well-founded.”
What isn’t controversial is this: Karl Rove didn’t “out” Valerie Plame as a CIA agent to intimidate Joe Wilson. He was dismissing Joe Wilson as a low-level has-been hack to whom nobody should pay attention. He was right then, and if he said it today, he’d still be right.
And if Valerie Plame wants to live a quiet spy life, she should stop having her picture taken by society photographers and stop getting stories written about her on the front page of the Times.
Triggering a spittle rant from Roger is Soooo much fun!
Roger –
Fraudoire is worse than Karl Rove! Rove would need to pull a Gregoire, if there were any legs to the false allegations being thrown around by leftist loonie.
RR @ 8
“Gregoire is an honorable leader, Rove is a criminal and a traitor who deserves to be shot by a firing squad. ”
I thought “progressives” were against the death penalty, even after numerous appeals. So what’s the rationale for the death penalty for someone who hasn’t even been charged with a crime? Can someone be a criminal without commiting a crime?
pbj,
“Rove never told anyone she was an agent, only that she worked at the CIA. But then so did George Tennent, so I guess every reporter who ever mention his name to anyone else is also guilty of “outing”.”
Better read the law, sport.
ConservativeFirst @ 68
“I thought “progressives” were against the death penalty, even after numerous appeals.”
Some are, some aren’t.
“So what’s the rationale for the death penalty for someone who hasn’t even been charged with a crime? Can someone be a criminal without commiting a crime? “
No. But, then again, they cannot get the death penalty without being convicted of a crime, can they?
Everyone: Please go back and read what the President said September 18(?), 2003. Did he say he would fire the person?
If you are all in such a tizzy, what about Patrick Leahy and his “leak” of confidential information in 1986?
Also, why is the New York Times reporter Judith Miller in jail for her source? She won’t reveal her source. Why is that? What does the NY Times know? Is the real name leak from Judith Miller? Since Rove didn’t leak Valerie Plame’s name to the Time reporter, what does Miller know and why are you guys not going after the NY Times and Judith Miller? I guess it’s because you have such violent hatred of Karl Rove for calling liberals liberals when he said lefties wanted to understand the 9/11 attackers vs. destroying them.
Well I guess we know who the “remote control trolls” are today huh, IDGAF.
Did the Ken Mehlman talking points and your check from the RNC arrive at the same time? Does your secret decoder ring glow when you’ve got a message from fearless leader? That story won’t grow legs, man…they’ll have to have a new one tomorrow. Keep checkin’ that email!
pudster-
Go back to bed.
Reply to 44
“As for Gregoire, stop making excuses for her. If anything, she defended these people.”
That’s bullshit, you lying fuck.
Reply to 46
prr, you are a fucking liar. How many covert agents working under Plame ended up dead because their identities were compromised? How many more people may end up dead because Rove compromised the CIA’s undercover WMD work? Treason is treason, asshole. You show your true colors by trying to blow off treason as nothing more than someone attending cocktail parties. You are truly an unpatriotic, America-hating, lying piece of shit … if not a traitor yourself … who are you working for prr, Al Qaeda?
Reply to 51
Since you’re too stupid to figure it out prr, I’ll spell it out for you: Republicans are running all 3 branches of the U.S. government, and REPUBLICANS are solely responsible for all the goddam messes in the U.S. government over the last 4 1/2 years.
You’re right prr, Washington State is being run by Democrats, and guess what you lying fuck, Washington has a balanced budget, is providing health care to 40,000 more kids than when Rossi wrote the budget, is finally doing something about Puget Sound’s transportation crisis, is delivering critical services every day to thousands of Washington citizens such as child abuse prevention and nursing care for the elderly … and all you can do is criticize.
prr, you are one sorry excuse for a human being — if you’re human at all — you negative lying piece of shit.
Comment on 55
Good explanation of why the entire Republican Party and everyone who voted for them are accessories to treason. They should all be stripped of their citizenship and voting rights, rounded up, and shipped off to a deserted island where they can’t hurt anyone except themselves.
Reply to 56
At the rate Bush is fighting Al Qaeda, the earth will fall into the sun before Al Qaeda is beaten. Four billion years won’t be enough for Bush and the GOPers to get the job done … hell, eternity won’t be enough …
Reply to 59
Valerie Plame WAS an undercover operative, you lying fuck, and the whole White House gang will go to jail.
Reply to 64
You’re just blowing brain farts out of your ass. Gregoire is as complicit in “wrongdoing” as you are in terrorism … at least she didn’t vote for the most corrupt administration in history which makes her 1000 times more patriotic than you.
Reply to 65
Pbj, you’re nothing but an apologist for treason. You’re a lying anti-American unpatriotic piece of shit just like prr.
Reply to 67
Maybe you’d like to offer us some facts instead of hot air???
Reply to 68
I direct you to Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, and Alberto Gonzales. They can answer your questions about the procedures used to kill people without lawful arrest, a fair trial, or any due process whatsoever. They’re experts in that field.
Comment on 71
I see Puddybud is joining the ranks of the apologists for treason. Welcome to the hate-America crowd, Puddy. I won’t be joining you, I’ll stick with the patriotic liberals who care enough about this country to call a traitor a traitor.
IDGAF @ 66,
”There’s no mistaking the purpose of this conversation between Cooper and Rove. It wasn’t intended to discredit, defame or injure Wilson’s wife. It was intended to throw cold water on the import, seriousness and supposedly high level of Wilson’s findings. While some may differ on the fairness of discrediting Joseph Wilson, it sure isn’t any kind of crime.”
We might call this the “Karl Rove is an idiot who doesn’t see the significance of revealing the identity of a CIA agent working on WMD issues” defense. Of course, the problems are still that (1) Bush said he would fire any White House staff involved in outing her, and (2) the CIA does not seem to be as convinced as you are that outing a CIA agent (whether out of ignorance or not) is legal.
As a Washington Post article mentioned in 2003: “ CIA believes that people in the administration continue to release classified information to damage the figures at the center of the controversy, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV and his wife, Valerie Plame.” If it was classified information that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA, then Rove may well be guilty.
”Rove was suggesting to Cooper that that folks lower down in the CIA than its own director commandeered the process so that the husband of one of their own could get the gig.”
This doesn’t pass my bullshit detectors. There is no way in hell a CIA spy is going to “assign” a job to someone from the State Department. The turf wars in Washington would seem to make that impossible. I wonder if anyone has learned who in the State Department authorized Wilson’s actions (i.e. made the assignment).
”And the husband in question then went and misrepresented his findings to various journalists (The Washington Post’s Walter Pincus and The New York Times’s Nicholas Kristof) and then in his own now-famous Times op-ed.”
Misrepresented? How was his story wrong? There seems to be widespread agreement that his information turned out to be the correct version of the story.
”But Plame’s undercover status at the time was and is a little questionable in any case. How undercover could she have been when her name was published at the time as part of Joseph Wilson’s own biography online (see cpsag.com/our_team/wilson.html)?”
What’s your point? There is a public marriage record with her name on it as well. Wilson’s bio did not state that his wife was a CIA operative (we have Karl to thank for making that fact public)!
”So if the offense wasn’t against Plame, what of the offense against Wilson? There was no offense.”
Maybe! With any luck a judge will be able to make that ruling. What we do know is that Rove’s statement indirectly compromised national security, ended the possibility of Plame being a spy, and may have directly compromised field associates of Plames.
’And Wilson lied. Repeatedly. . . . First off, Wilson long denied he was recommended for the job by his wife: “Valerie had nothing to do with the matter,” he writes in his book. “She definitely had not proposed that I make the trip.” ‘ ”But the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence actually found the memo in which Valerie Plame recommended her husband for the job. “
Interesting. Did Karl Rove somehow predict the future? I mean, if one can predict that someone would eventually write such a heinous lie, that would certainly be good cause to leak classified information, ruin a CIA spy’s career, and possibly lead to the death of other CIA assets. I mean, tit for tat, and all that, right?
”There were other lies as well. Wilson’s own report was far from definitive in any way on the question of whether Iraq was seeking uranium from Niger — thus giving the lie to his later bald claim that he came back insisting there was no link.”
In what way was it not definitive? I’ve not read his report (have you?), but it would appear he was spot on in his conclusions.
“The report on the former ambassador’s [Wilson’s] trip to Niger, disseminated in March 2002,” said the Senate Select Committee, “did not change any analysts’ assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on the uranium deal, but the State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) analysts believed that the report supported their assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq.”
This seems consistent with Wilson’s claims, not yours.
[Nonsense deleted trying to cast doubt on the rather certain conclusions that the Iraq-Niger yellowcake deal was complete bullshit.]
”What isn’t controversial is this: Karl Rove didn’t “out” Valerie Plame as a CIA agent to intimidate Joe Wilson.”
Yes, he did out her! There seems to be little question about that. What is at issue is whether he knowingly outed her, or whether he did while ignorant of what he was doing. Also, there is the question of whether the information was classified and whether divulging classified information in ignorance is illegal.
”And if Valerie Plame wants to live a quiet spy life, she should stop having her picture taken by society photographers and stop getting stories written about her on the front page of the Times.”
Oh? So now Valerie Plame is telling the press what to write, too? The problem with being outed as a spy is that it ends your career. Don’t ya think?
Rabbit @ 76
Who are you kidding?
Washington State has one of the lowest academic rating in the country, It’s legislature is a friggin punchline, (See Mcdermott, Patty Murray, Maria Cantwell & Vhristine Gregoire for examples)
The election system is compltely corrupt as are the the Seattle & Tacoma Criminal Justice system.
Give me a break, you should be ashamed of yourself for even trying to defend this screwed up State.
Pudster @ 71
“Please go back and read what the President said September 18(?), 2003. Did he say he would fire the person?”
On June 10th of 2004, at Sea Island Plantation, Bush made said he would fire anybody from the White House who was involved.
Okay DJ, he said he would fire anyone who broke the law. If no law is found to be broken will your side retract those statements? No one is answering the Judith Miller question. Who is she protecting? I seriously doubt it’s Karl Rove. No one comments on the 1986 leaking of classified Senate information by Pat Leahy? What is that?
Why is it when someone questions the left wing liberal-speak talking points as projected by the NY Times (Goldy) or other MSM liberal sources, we are disparaged with frog marching, goose stepping in Republican-speak? Where is the same quasi-soulsearching on the NY Times? Only one person has been tried under this law. Since Karl Rove didn’t leak a name and he was correcting an erroneous report about the VP sending Joe Wilson to Niger, I see straw-grasping!!!
squirm some more Puddy, you’re not even convincing all of the choir anymore.
What makes someone so wildly partisan that they can’t even let go a little bit on an obvious abuse?
Puddybud @ 88,
“he said he would fire anyone who broke the law.”
I couldn’t find quotes from either statement in the few minutes I have. In addition to at least two statements by Bush (one, of which, I believe does not say “illegal”), Scott McClellan also said that the President would remove anyone found to be involved.
“No one is answering the Judith Miller question. Who is she protecting? I seriously doubt it’s Karl Rove. “
I think it is because nobody knows. We all want to know, just like you do. We all also want to know what the deal is with Novak.
Puddy @ 88
“Only one person has been tried under this law. Since Karl Rove didn’t leak a name and he was correcting an erroneous report about the VP sending Joe Wilson to Niger, I see straw-grasping!!!”
Oh. . . I forgot to mention, the “outing law” is not the only law that Rove may have broken. There are more ordinary laws against divulging classified information, of course.
Not convincing the choir? What obvious abuse? Conviction before jury? Answer the Judith Miller/NY Times hiding question windie?If he is guilty, I’ll join the choir for his hide. Breaking the law is illegal. I have not seen anything yet from law enforcement specifying Rove broke the law. Until then, you are pissing in front of a high speed fan (windie).
“Washington State has one of the lowest academic rating in the country, It’s legislature is a friggin punchline, (See Mcdermott, Patty Murray, Maria Cantwell & Vhristine Gregoire for examples)
The election system is compltely corrupt as are the the Seattle & Tacoma Criminal Justice system.
Give me a break, you should be ashamed of yourself for even trying to defend this screwed up State.
Comment by prr”
But please, let me guess, the national elections are just fine? Florida, Ohio, no problems there right?
reply@93,
But please, let me guess, the national elections are just fine? Florida, Ohio, no problems there right?
Well there were problems with Ohio. Namely, we had Democrats trading crack for fraudulent voter registrations:
http://www.toledoblade.com/app...../410190343
Oh, and then there were the official members of the St Loius Democrat Party that were convicted of buying votes (vote fraud) to elect prominent Democrats:
http://www.stltoday.com/stltod.....enDocument
So, yeah. There WERE problems with the elections in 2004.
pbj @ 94
Ohhhh. . . you are really onto something with that first case. A crack addict (no known party affiliation) working for a volunteer (no known party affiliation) for a non-partisan group is caught faking 130 VOTER REGISTRATION FORMS in the name of Mary Poppins, Jeffrey Dahmer, Janet Jackson, George Foreman, Brett Favre, Michael Jordan, and Dick Tracy. All but six of the forms are easily spotted as written by the same person, and since these were registration forms placing fictitious or famous people in a rural county, they affected the election how????
The second story is legit, and I am greatly in favor of hunting down, trying, and punishing those found guilty of election fraud—whatever their party affiliation.
However, to bring this back to the topic at hand, do you agree that Rove should be tried, and if found guilty of outing a spy, or divulging classified information should be punished?
Do you think Plame should launch a civil suit against Rove for killing her career?
Reply to 86
If Washington is so fucked up, why do you live here? And if you don’t live here, why aren’t you minding your own fucking business and worrying about your own state?
DJ @ 95
If someone faked 130 voter registrations forms in Washington in the names of Mary Poppins, Jeffrey Dahmer, Janet Jackson, George Foreman, Brett Favre, Michael Jordan, and Dick Tracy, there wouldn’t be much that could be done about it.
Election officials would have to accept these forms and register these purported voters. If anyone challenged their registrations, someone would have to prove (1) who actually signed these forms with names such as Mary Poppins, Jeffrey Dahmer, Janet Jackson, George Foreman, Brett Favre, Michael Jordan, and Dick Tracy, AND either (2) that such person wasn’t legally eligible to vote in Washington or (3) that such person had registered more than once in Washington.
If the date of birth and last four of the SSN (or driver’s license/state ID card last four) didn’t match the data of a real person, then the registration/voting process would be only slightly more complicated. Either the alleged voter (i.e. Mary Poppins, Jeffrey Dahmer, Janet Jackson, George Foreman, Brett Favre, Michael Jordan, and Dick Tracy) would have to produce ID at the polls and vote in person OR the ballot would be treated as a provisional ballot, and counted only if the signature matched what was on the registration form (i.e. Mary Poppins would have to signed her name “correctly” when she voted — HA HA HA).
If the election were closer than 130 votes, an election contest would be unsuccessful. It would be impossible to prove who Mary Poppins, Jeffrey Dahmer, Janet Jackson, George Foreman, Brett Favre, Michael Jordan, and Dick Tracy voted for, even if the challenger proved these were illegal votes.
The law states that, to qualify as a breach of security, a.) the agent’s identity must be classified and b.) the agent must have been posted abroad within the previous five years.
Neither applies to Plame. Her identity and employment was evidently well known in unofficial Washington circles (Andrea Mitchell has grudgingly admitted that most reporters knew who she was, who she was married to and where she worked). And she was withdrawn from overseas duty in 1995 — nine years prior to this flap.
Her assignment in Langley, VA at the time was as an analyst.
Richard Pope @ 97
Cute. . . however, realistically I think the voter ID cards would be returned to sender, since the addresses were made up by a crack addict, and the registrations would be cancelled.
” It would be impossible to prove who Mary Poppins, Jeffrey Dahmer, Janet Jackson, George Foreman, Brett Favre, Michael Jordan, and Dick Tracy voted for, even if the challenger proved these were illegal votes.”
Of course, none of them would have voted in the first place. . . .
But, thanks for the smile!
Baynative @ 98
“Neither applies to Plame. Her identity and employment was evidently well known in unofficial Washington circles (Andrea Mitchell has grudgingly admitted that most reporters knew who she was, who she was married to and where she worked). And she was withdrawn from overseas duty in 1995 – nine years prior to this flap”
Geee. . . If there was no classified information involved, the CIA was sure overreacting when they launched into a severe criticism of the Administration and demanded the investigation.
Of course, maybe the CIA knows something you don’t. . . .
I’m with you in hoping we have a complete invstigation of this matter. Not just a little tsk, tsk, tsk like we did with Sandy Berger when he admitted stealing and shredding Top Secret documents.
I’d like to learn who triggered the administrative investigation and why. Because there is clearly no there, there.
You know, I’m beginning to wonder if there is too much “rhetorical relativism” coming from some right wing “pundits” (e.g. Coulter, O’Reilly, Scarborough). They bandy about the words “treason” and “traitor” so freely that the true gravity and meaning of those words must be getting lost on the consumers of their infotainment.
No matter how much bile and phlegm Bill, Ann, & Co. belch forth on “treason”, I have yet to hear any substantive allegations of any potentially treasonous behavior amongst the liberals they so love to excoriate.
But now that there are substantive allegations of potentially treasonous behavior amongst one of their own. they—along with an awful lot of those consumers of their bloviations—greet such news with a yawn.
So all you apologists for Rove, please think about this:
if you feel that dissent against the Iraq war (for instance) IS tantamount to treason (and I suppose you could ask BIll O’Reilly for a more thorough explanation of this argument)
BUT
you feel that Rove leaking national security secrets (and I don’t give a shit about the technicalities) IS NOT even remotely close to treason
well, then you are a moral relativist.
You can’t have it both ways: attack the left for criticism and defend the right for perfidy. That is immoral.
You know, I’m beginning to wonder if there is too much “rhetorical relativism” coming from some right wing “pundits” (e.g. Coulter, O’Reilly, Scarborough). They bandy about the words “treason” and “traitor” so freely that the true gravity and meaning of those words must be getting lost on the consumers of their infotainment.
No matter how much bile and phlegm Bill, Ann, & Co. belch forth on “treason”, I have yet to hear any substantive allegations of any potentially treasonous behavior amongst the liberals they so love to excoriate.
But now that there are substantive allegations of potentially treasonous behavior amongst one of their own. they—along with an awful lot of those consumers of their bloviations—greet such news with a yawn.
So all you apologists for Rove, please think about this:
if you feel that dissent against the Iraq war (for instance) IS tantamount to treason (and I suppose you could ask BIll O’Reilly for a more thorough explanation of this argument)
BUT
you feel that Rove leaking national security secrets (and I don’t give a shit about the technicalities) IS NOT even remotely close to treason
well, then you are a moral relativist.
You can’t have it both ways: attack the left for criticism and defend the right for perfidy. That is immoral.
Sorry, clicked the button twice on that last post.
We will judge Rove’s case on it own merits. I know you would have to be dumbass to take donk seriously on anything to do with national security. Go defend some terrorists at Gitmo… at least your in your realm there.
105
I don’t know to whom your comments are addressed, but your last post seems mostly to be a non-sequitur.
Puddy @ 71
I think Rove is a toadstool. Rove has played dirty for so long I think he needs to slide under a gas truck and taste his own blood (Sam Kinison quote). But I agree that what the NYT and Miller knows is important. Would be a real letdown if it were insignificant and she was just sticking to her principles. har har… I do think she is doing the right thing… but DAMN I want to know.
Karl Rove should get the truth teller award for exposing the CIA nepotism involving Joe Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame. Mr. Rove is turning out to be the real “whistleblower” in this whole sorry pseudo-scandal. He’s the one who warned Time’s Matthew Cooper and other reporters to be wary of Mr. Wilson’s credibility. He’s the one who told the press the truth that Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife, not by Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Wilson was asserting on the airwaves. In short, Mr. Rove provided important background so Americans could understand that Mr. Wilson wasn’t a whistleblower but was a partisan trying to discredit the Iraq War in an election campaign. Thank you, Mr. Rove.
The PI editorial the other day covered it pretty well, I Think. The issue is NOT just whether he was smart enough to skirt the law, but rather his stunning disregard for national security, the safety of our covert agents, and the search for WMD’s
This can’t be repeated enough. And a promise like the one Bush made can’t be dodged like the law can.
This is Bush’s big chance to prove himself to be a man of principle… Lets see him do it.
pbj @ 108
“Karl Rove should get the truth teller award for exposing the CIA nepotism involving Joe Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame.”
Hogwash. At the most, she recommended him and pointed out his qualifications. How is that nepotism? She didn’t hire him you fucking idiot!
“Mr. Rove is turning out to be the real “whistleblower” in this whole sorry pseudo-scandal.”
You mean, Rove is turning out to be the real traitor.
“He’s the one who warned Time’s Matthew Cooper and other reporters to be wary of Mr. Wilson’s credibility. He’s the one who told the press the truth that Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife, not by Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Wilson was asserting on the airwaves.”
Are you fucking nuts? What possible relevance is it that “Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife”?
How could that possibly justify Rove undermining the CIA efforts in WMD? How could that possibly justify Rove putting CIA assets at risk? You can you possibly write this bullshit without questioning your own integrety? Are you a paid troll?
“In short, Mr. Rove provided important background so Americans could understand that Mr. Wilson wasn’t a whistleblower but was a partisan trying to discredit the Iraq War in an election campaign.”
No, Rove is a vindictive asshole-turned-criminal who used his access to classified information to discredit Wilson for publishing an essay that falsified the Adminstration’s case for war.
That makes Karl Rove a criminal and a traitor.
@109,
The PI editorial the other day covered it pretty well, I Think. The issue is NOT just whether he was smart enough to skirt the law, but rather his stunning disregard for national security, the safety of our covert agents, and the search for WMD’s
This can’t be repeated enough. And a promise like the one Bush made can’t be dodged like the law can.
This is Bush’s big chance to prove himself to be a man of principle… Lets see him do it
First of all, Plame was NOT a covert agent, so let’s put that lie to rest shall we?
Secondly, Rove did not reveal any classified information., Repeating this lie won’t make it come true. It may give you a good reason for a spittlefest rage, but it isn’t true.
This is Bush’s big chance to prove himself to be a man of principle… Lets see him do it
Bush doesn’t have to prove this AGAIN. Most Americans already knwo this to be true. The reelected hm. Remember? Not to rub your noe in it or anything.
BUSH WON!!!! KERRY LOST!!!
Uh ok. A little teensy weensy nose rubbing.
pbj @ 111
“First of all, Plame was NOT a covert agent, so let’s put that lie to rest shall we?”
Really? Don’t you think that the CIA is the best judge of whether or not she is a covert agent? I mean, did the CIA insist on an investigation because they were bored? Obviously, the CIA does consider her and asset. Here is what the CIA said in in a Knight Ridder News release:
“Secondly, Rove did not reveal any classified information., Repeating this lie won’t make it come true. It may give you a good reason for a spittlefest rage, but it isn’t true.”
Again, this is remarkable illogic. The U.S. Justice Department has “a criminal investigation into allegations that the Bush administration violated U.S. federal law by leaking the identity of an undercover CIA operative.” And now we know from multiple sources that Plame was identified by Rove. There is another senior administration official involved, as well.