Apparently, the Seattle P-I editorial board is a tad curious too…
The man peddling the book “Dino Rossi: Lessons in Leadership, Business, Politics and Life” ought to show some leadership. Rossi, who voted for the previous 5-cent gas tax increase, continues to duck the I-912 issue. In the gubernatorial campaign, Rossi has said he would support no initiatives because the state needed a rest from such measures. “So I think I’ve told the public where I am,” Rossi said then. So tell us where you are now.
Truth is, Rossi never has shown much leadership, so it’s hard to imagine that he’ll show some now. But it’s good to know that others are asking the tough questions, even if Rossi refuses to answer them.
Of course, Rossi’s not the only Republican cowering in silence.
King County executive candidate David Irons touts leadership but will only say he’ll personally vote against I-912. Forget his secret ballot. Voters want to know what sort of leader won’t take a stand on billions of dollars and thousands of jobs.
Where are the Republican legislators who voted for the gas tax increase — defending their votes or running from them?
Where does would-be U.S. senator Mike McGavick stand on gutting state funding and thus jeopardizing federal money?
With less than five weeks to Election Day, it’s not too late for some Republican leadership.
That’s right… it’s not to late too prove me wrong and show some leadership. Come on Dino & Company… make me look foolish.
It’s pretty stupid to be so candy ass about the whole thing. Irons should say he’s for 912, since its obvious he’s not against it. Rossi is the same way. If this was Nazi Germany, Rossi, and Irons would be saying “I’m not against gassing the Jews, but I won’t be personally loading any into box cars.”
Comment by Swift Boat Vets For Universal Healthcare — 10/9/05 @ 1:05 am
You are a sicko.
For the umpteenth time: MARY LANE SUPPORTS 912!!!
She is Dino Rossi’s Executive Director for Forward Washington.
She is my best friend and soon enough, my drinking buddy.
Unlike our Governor*, Mr. Rossi (thru Mary Lane) has a consistent position. If Mary Lane did not support 912, I would know because she would tell me.
There. Dino Rossi supports 912. Are you happy now?
—–PATRIOTIC FOOTNOTE—–
*As selected by King County Elections’ malfeasance, misfeasance and nonfeasance. This footnote is brought to you courtesy of the Forward Washington Foundation. Mary Lane, Executive Director and Former State Secretary of Defense.
REMEMBER IF YOU THINK YOU DESERVE BETTER – GO HERE AND GET A PETITION AT HONESTELECTIONSPROJECT.COM
Rossi will use the result of I-912 to his favor during his 2008 campaign. If it passes, he’ll take credit. Same if it fails.
Goldy; wow, got a Nazi slur in the first comment.. You go guys…
Rest of us still waiting for the Election reforms to happen…far more worthwhile vigil.
What happened to you and your picket signs on 520, that dangerous road?
re 3: The only voting “reforms” you’re interested in are laws that prevent as many people as possible from voting or that inconvenience as many voters as possible or that will disqualify as many voters as possible. “Vere are you’re papers?!!?? Zese papers are not in order!!!!” Gee! I wonder why you get the Nazi slams? You have a president who would rather declare martial law for a flu epidemic than start making innoculations. You guys are such willing and eager totalitarian tools.
… or fools.
Look, nobody should expect any Republican with statewide ambitions to come out and openly support 912, because they all know that they’ll look like fools admitting that they’re now anti-road construction after all those years of complaining about the lack of new road construction. 912 does more to hurt road construction than any environmentalist or democrat ever did. It must be pretty painful for the GOP to know that.
And it couldn’t be good for business. The sellers of gas will just tack it on to the price of gas and pocket it for themselves.
Comment by headless lucy— 10/9/05 @ 7:29 am @4
Miss Lucy you need to work on your stereotyping and your German also. By the way did you get your shots at school for FREE. NO you have a FEAR of Shots NO. Maybe you have a problem with comprehension or Fear of accepting someone’s point of view other than yours. The Wabbit is real good at that,he is real smart and understands how to communicate, why don’t you ask him for help. You can also take that light-rail over to the Eastside and get help from a Therapist. Don’t be affraid there is nothing to worry about, they wouldn’t vandilize you home while your are away. The Doc has drugs to help you sleep so you don’t wake up in Fear of that Bush Bogie man. But I have a small secret to tell you, my vote almost didn’t get counted last Time, and I’m a Democrate. You are so good at reading Tea Leaves, tell me how could that be possible? After what has happen in this country the last few months you should understand why the Military should get involved. It will not be the President calling up the National Guard, but the Governor, and in some areas there is no other choice but to declare martial law. Lucy don’t get scared we don’t shoot the good gays like they show in Hollywood and yes we use real Bullits. Oh I forgot you don’t allowed people to talk about the good thing the military do in this world, only the Bad in the Seattle School Dist.. The present of the Military in you school brings back flash backs of Kent State, No. That Therapist can help you with that nightmare Lucy you don’t need that BC bud anymore. Hey Wabbit talk to her, give her a big Hug and help her with her those FEAR’s. God Bless, and you to Lucy
B E A T I N G a dead horse issue here. I say again: Rossi dosen’t owe a damn soul a stance on this matter. If he were Governor, as he should be; and not Queen Crissy, maybe all this mess wouldn’t have happened. Hopefully he’s reading all these posts by you morons running around flailing your arms and shrieking over I-912 with a big fucking smile on his face. I know I would be. See you at the polls.
And ‘show some leadership’? How about the Queen heeding the will of the people instead of end-running prior past initiatives and being arrogant? Seems she is in fact lacking leadership herself. Damn monarchs!
I thought the governor was going to bankrupt a bunch of oil companies for price gouging. Sure was a lot of smack talk a couple of weeks ago, then a meek little announcement that no suits were going to be filed. Talks a good game.
Who cares what Rossi says, does, or is? He’s a nonentity here, and destined for obscurity. He chose his path, and these are the results. Funny thing is, your taunting does more to keep the path to complete obscurity long and drawn out. Goldy, you are no doubt the ONLY reason he’s getting any press at all.
912 is going to pass, and I think every sentient being here knows it. I’m not even hearing much talk about organizing, fighting, coming up with a message, or hope that it’s going to fail. All I see now are preparations for a last minute desperate ad blitz, and setting things up for a big “I told you so” on the part of synchophants. (And I fully expect that the leadership will make sure to punish the voters for having passed the limits on them, in spite of their mandate to the voters. And the amen crowd here will do everything possible to make sure that ideas of how to make it hurt more)
Yep, it’s the way things seem to go around here.
Yeah, well here I go again:
Mary Lane, Executive Director of Foward Washington/Rossi 2008 supports 912.
Enuf said.
And I fully expect that the leadership will make sure to punish the voters for having passed the limits on them, in spite of their mandate to the voters.
Punish the voters how? By not building roads? That’s what the voters will have just told them — that they don’t want more roads.
Mark1 @ 8
“B E A T I N G a dead horse issue here.””
Ahhhh…no. The Seattle PI editorial is current. Apparently there are people beyond Horsesass.org who really want to know where Rossi stands.
But, you may be right on one thing. Repeatedly pointing out that Rossi is a coward may be beating a dead horse.
Don’t worry, Mark1, this “beating” will likely die down soon after the election—unless Rossi runs for public office again.
I haven’t heard Daryl Smith and Judy Nicastro voice their view on 912 either.
re 7: Get some professional counseling before it’s too late!! Jesus , klaker, you’re a sputtering sack of anger and gibberish. That can’t be good for the old ticker!
Retroactive windfall tax. That’s the ticket!
Mary Lane’s support of 912 should be sufficient, eh?
Besides, Rossi doesn’t like initiatives. Remember last year when he refused to take sides…
KLake: It sure is good to view a deomcrat person who sees Head-up-de-ass Lucite for what he is: a vile sick racist ignoramous that animal hind parts lefties love to put out front as their voice of reasoning. And just think, you are on his side politically and when you called him on his bullshit and what does this lefty do, repeat that tired old phrase “you are angry!”, bullshit! KLake, he is their voice on animal hind parts! Shitty isn’t it? Ha ha ha ha!
Dino Rossi doesn’t have the guts or the brains to do the right thing and announce his opposition to the anti-roads I -912. That’s why he will never win statewide office. He has peaked. Bye bye.
I just looooove the commentaries here.
klake. When James Joyce writes without punctuation, it’s High Lit. When you do, it’s just incomprehensible. Meet Mr. Comma and Mr. Period please.
Josef,
I’m glad Mary Lane supports I-912. Could Dino please do the same, preferably into a live mike?
Here is the problem I see. I constantly hear righties whining about taxes. Whine whine whine. The gubmint is taking MY money. You’re worse than my daughters (of course, when my daughters whine like this, their noses get stuffed in the corner. Y’all are too big for a time-out though).
Rather than whining about how expensive everything is, present a real budget that really gets roads, rail, etc. built. At the very least, show a case that demonstrates that the dollars-per-mile for construction here is out of line, because I have not seen that case. I just hear whine, whine, whine.
If I want to hear adults whine, I’ll go down to First Thursday and listen to the artfags* complain about how second-rate the exhibits are. Do they make art? No they do not. Whine whine whine is what they do best.
Thankfully, participation in this excercise is a few hours a month and is strictly voluntary. Unlike fake-Conservative crybabies, artfags do not shape public policy.
* artfags is a generic term for a species of urban human found commonly in trendy clubs and galleries in wide spots in the pavement like this one. The term “artfag” does not connotate any particular sexual preference. Indeed, artfags can be celibate, heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or omnisexual.
Hey Goldy — time for another vigil. There’s still absolutely no mention of 912 on the State GOP website. Why are they so ashamed of their endorsement?
@ 22
I’m sorry if you are offended. It’s just a bit of macabre humor which doesn’t always play well in cyberspace. But come on. Rossi needs to speak the fuck up, or he can’t be seriuosly referred to as a leader.
I like how hard Josef is spinning… its kinda cute!
Name-dropping (I’m drinking buddies with Mary Lane!) isn’t nearly so cute, and is kinda sad.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Its sad tho, we all know that Rossi doesn’t have the Cojones to actually state a position on this… Thats what you get when someones only platform is “Win the election!” At least now its demonstrable that he doesn’t really care about the state beyond what will help him politically. If he did, he’d try to help whichever cause he stood for.
Josef @ 3
RE: Footnote
“Mary Lane, Executive Director and Former State Secretary of Defense.” What is the State Secretary of Defense?
Rossi’s a punk.
His apologists are punks.
Got Leadership?
Comment by chuck — 10/9/05 @ 12:49 pm
She was the coordinator for all the “re-vote”/stand-up to vote fraud efforts back when, well, you know :-).
Comment by jsa on beacon hill — 10/9/05 @ 10:52 am
Comment by windie — 10/9/05 @ 12:08 pm
Dino Rossi is anti-initiative nowadays (gee, I wonder why? Could the failings of gov’t-by-initiative be so obvious after having to balance a state budget?) and besides, Mary Lane is normally the guy’s spokesperson – and sent out to issue under-the-table notes in crunch situations. This is obviously one of them.
Goldy-
You need no help in looking foolish, you accomplish that alone every day.
Bax,
That kind of nonsense doesn’t work on me. The taxpayers aren’t saying that they don’t want roads. They want the same funding mechanism that built the damn things in the first place, not this bait and switch BS that’s going on. It has not escaped my attention that our ‘leaders’ have created yet another funding mechanism to replace traditional expenditures from the general fund that they redirect to things the voters don’t want.
If you want to go down the path of user fees, fine. I don’t have kids, I have insurance, I am not homeless, and don’t drink wine or eat vegetables. Put user fees on every one of them, and I’ll gladly accept the lower tax rate on me. Make the damn people with kids pay for the schools. Such is the nature of user fees.
Punish the voters? You damned right they will. They will protect their little feelgood things like bridges for squirrels on 90, and make sure to defund things like the incident reponse teams on I-5, just to make the commute longer.
I just read in the Times, a statement that implied that the voters weren’t the problem. It’s the initiative organizers that pass these things. Implying perhaps that voters are sheep, there is no connection between initiatives and the votes passing them, or perhaps that the government shouldn’t have to listen to the people.
You can frame this any way you want. Fact of the matter is that the VOTERS and CITIZENS of this state don’t appreciate what the executive and legislative branches did. If you want to be a petty, petulant twerp, you can put it into an all or nothing context, I suppose. And if that’s the level of concern you have as a citizen and supporter of the people of this state, get the hell out of here! My advice is to listen to the voters, understand them, and enact the reasonable measures that they propose. Or, continue to fight the citizens in the hopes you will obtain ultimate power and force every bit of your agenda down their throats, since you are obviously superior to them.
How arrogant..
Vote Stupid!
Vote Against Your OWN Interests!
Vote for No Roads…No Road and Bridge Repair…More Traffic…Higher Commute Costs…Higher Costs for Trucked Goods…Less Time with the Family!
Vote FOR 912!
They want the same funding mechanism that built the damn things in the first place, not this bait and switch BS that’s going on.
The gas tax built them in the first place. So if you want to use the same funding mechanism (the gas tax), why are you bitching about the gas tax?
Potshot: “You can frame this any way you want. Fact of the matter is that the VOTERS and CITIZENS of this state don’t appreciate what the executive and legislative branches did.”
Well, then why don’t we/they ever actually exercise that anger and vote some people out? Why do we/they vote for tax cuts and then turn around and vote for pay increases for state employees (teachers) with no funding mechanism?
Until the anger expressed in initiatives connects with the re-election of legislators and chief executives, nothing will change.
Comment by Potshot — 10/9/05 @ 6:24 pm
I say – start electing people whom represent your ideal of what gov’t should be. When you’re not electing them, you should be scrutinizing not just them – but their wanna-bes.
[Personal aside: I did in the gubernatorial race. My first preference was – wait for it – Phil Talmadge.]
Ummmmm-
Where is Christine Gregoire? She is the Governor….isn’t she?
Listening to you LEFTIST PINHEADS, you would think when I-912 passes we are all gonna fucking die.
So where is Christine Gregoire at this most critical time??
Hiding?
Trying to avoid the fallout of her campaign lie?
Oh, she’s in Asia….running around on the taxpayer’s dime!!!!
Gregoire gets far, far away from home and watches as her fearless and brainless LEFTIST PINHEADS demand that Rossi lead the tax-and-squander politics while she is gone vacationing.
LEFTIST PINHEADS are highly amusing!!!
We’ll get more money from gambling.
Help me Dino!
Help me Dino!!!!!
I fucked up bad….
I desperately need your help Dino!!
I’ll do anything Dino….if only you will help me out of this deep dark hole I have dug for myself.
PLEEEEEEEEAAASSSSSSSSSE Dino!
If you aren’t nice and help me…I’ll, I’ll, I’ll I’ll BLAME YOU for the AWV falling down. Yeah, that’s it. So it’s blackmail time now Dino.
Yeah….thousands will die and it’s your fault for not supporting this huge GasTax increase.
Dino you rat bastard. How could you do this.
Why, children will die. Yeah, that’s it. Children and, and, and and LOTS OF OLD PEOPLE will die too.
Not only that Dino….MINORITIES will die.
Yeah, that’s it….thousands of minorities will die and it’s all your fault Dino.
So Dino, whaddya say…can you help me out after I get back from China & Japan on the taxpayers dime? We need more money!!!
Cyn,
I put a fairly mean descriptive expletive in my original post, and decided you didn’t rate. Just the same, you’re pretty short-sighted.
Where do you think the money comes from here?
Who buys our apples, our lumber, and our airplanes?
Going to visit our largest trading partners is not a waste of money, no matter how much you’d like to make it out to be.
jsa–
I’m talking about our Governor’s “priorities”.
Gregoire can go sell our apples & technology to the Chinese AFTER the I-912 vote….if she really believes this GasTax is so critical.
I don’t think it looks to great for her to be in Asia right now, traveling around on our dime when we apparently have a funding shortage.
So jsa, how many apples did Gregoire sell.
We don’t need to sell lumber to China because of the hurricane.
The airplanes are already being sold…without her help.
Perhaps you could enlight me on Gregoire’s role in selling airplanes??? It is a “technical” purchase….cheerleading doesn’t sell airplanes!!!
I would respect her more if she were to stay here and make I-912 HER top priority since SHE signed the GasTax Bill.
Jon – A great question. Why didn’t the voters vote everyone out? Umm, if you look at the vote counts, Gregoire squeaked in. She couldn’t even engender a good deal of HER base. People who voted for KERRY didn’t vote for her.
Further, I voted against Schmit Somers, and Lovick. The last two because they are beholden to the tax and spend special interests, not inclined to deal with we, the little people, in the district. Did my part.
That doesn’t explain it though, right? Let’s see. How do I, in Bothell, vote against Dawn Morrell in Puyallup, one of the arm twisters and ‘negotiators’ who brought this gas tax forward? Or, even better, how do I vote John Ladenburg out of office, since he’s the head of Sound Transit? We can’t even get Sims out of office and HE’s arbitrarily sited a waste treatment facility on land in MY county without a SINGLE public hearing. Big Ron told them to put it out of his jurisdiction, and that’s what’s happening! Tell me, Jon, what mechanism exists for we the citizens to turn out people in this environment, given the propensity of big government types to create structure that makes it impossible for THEIR people to GET booted out?
So, it’s natural in this environment to take the meat cleaver to the big problem. Want to go against the citizens and do things they don’t want? Initiative time! We’ll take a big action to show our displeasure. And, yes, there are some that want to eliminate that frustration to their ability to force their agenda down our throats. Eliminate initiatives? Send forth only those initiatives approved by the elected class? It’s all on the table. And with that, the final consolidation of power will have occurred.
Again, my advice is for our elected officials to actually represent the citizens of this state. We have morphed the concept and bastardized it to the point that representative government means only that they will do just enough to keep getting elected, and force everything else down people’s throats. You know… they call it leadership!
Let’s see, do the citizens want less congestion or a multimillion dollar payment to create a winery startup fund for Walla Walla? Hmmmm… Do the citizens want improved traffic flow, or for the state to buy two trains from Canada to start rail service to Vancouver BC and to Portland for 70 Million? Hmmm. You see, it’s not that difficult. It’s about the priorities we have and they have. I could care less about asparagus farmer’s mitigation payments, not when we need to bolster the productivity and lessen stress here. Sure, the citizens are at a disadvantage for most have a gut feel that money is there, just being spent wrongly. And the elected class knows that few actually read the three budgets, so there’s little chance that they will be caught. But some of us do read those budgets, and the riders attached. It’s wrong, outrageous, and should stop!
Our budget is approaching $13 Billion a year. It’s hard to believe the claims of poverty in it, given the outpacing of tax collections over inflation and population growth. Is it about the paltry cents attached to gas? NO! Is it about the fact that money already exists that can be tapped and routed under the current collections? YES! We are tired of the games, the artificial crisis mentality, and certainly of the lack of representation.
Not when a big deal is being made over those same paltry cents in the gas tax that over 16 years will not have collected enough for even the Viaduct. And, we know that the regional tax is coming, people will try to enact tolls and congestion pricing, another Sound Transit tax, more excise taxes, the possibility of an income tax on top of the current taxes, raised sales tax, higher mitigation fees on new homes, and yes, more state gas tax increases. Pretty soon, it adds up. Made all the more outrageous by the transparent plan to shift current monies to other priorities as they are backfilled as a result of these tax schemes.
Bax, you are obviously silly and ignorant. Please read your assignment on road funding through the ages, and then we can discuss the issue with some level of parity.
Thanks for the opportunity, Jon.
Steve
Jon,
How rude of me to not give a nod to the disparity on the teachers initiative.
I am involved with a family who is in education to a large degree. And I have learned a few things.
Whenever an initiative comes up that advances their agenda, they will use every form of manipulation to get me to sign some paper to ‘show my support.’ And, looking at the demographics of this state, it’s reasonable to presume that people having children in school alone will give the opportunity for a straight majority vote, if you can get them to sign on. Additionally, they have affected personal insult when I have elected to tell them of my lack of support. I can’t imagine what parents dealing with these teachers must endure. (Suppose there has ever been an instance where the child of someone in opposition to the agenda might have received a lower grade than one whose parents supported the agenda?)
And, in breaking news over the weekend, if you hadn’t heard, the PTA put on it’s 2006 agenda, MORE MONEY FOR SCHOOLS! (Hardly a surprise to me, and certainly not newsworthy. Top story? Bah!)
Jon, could the disconnect be something similar to what I discussed in my last piece? The fact that the voters have a gut feel that the money is already there, that a reprioritization on the part of our elected staff would suffice to fund the raise, rather than incur another tax? That seems like a reasonable read to me, for I am among them.
Having said that, I don’t have kids, won’t have kids, and don’t have a problem with the supermajority. And, if it comes to pass, I won’t miss the supermajority requirement. I disagree with legistlators and such who defund state participation on the basis of local levy dollar levels, I disagree with the unfunded mandates handed down from the state, and I certainly do not support any further erosion on the basis of local levy dollar levels. Having said that, I resent local emotional manipulations and either/or nonsense that PTA extremists come up with on their local levy races. Either it makes sense locally or it doesn’t. And if it doesn’t, it’s time for the local board to figure out a reasonable means to engender the level of support needed to enact their plan. Look at the Marysville attempt this year. Look at the Brewster battles that have raged over the past years. That’s uncalled for and not helpful.
It’s not as simple as describing the situation as being part of a ‘confused voter’ syndrome, or ‘mixed messages.’ The information is there, and reasonable, intelligent, sentient beings whom have the interests of their community and state, while able to disagree, can discuss and come to accommodation.
Thanks again,
Steve
Cyn,
Well, in your sort of twisted, backwards way, you bring up a good point.
It is self-evident to Gov. Gregoire, the Business Roundtable, the grownup members of the Republican Party, Goldy and myself that we need a gas tax.
The fact that I-912 is getting as much traction as it is indicates both that our side is not making its case well, and that American mathematics and civics education really is in dismal shape.
As for sales, it’s 99% about cheerleading. Agriculture and technology exports are extremely political issues, so it makes sense to have politicans drop in now and then to pay attention. Did you ever have an honest-to-God job in the private sector Cyn, or did you make your money speculating on the stock market and in property?
Bax, you are obviously silly and ignorant.
Typically when people are reduced to posting insults rather than addressing the issue it indicates they know their position is untenable and can’t be backed up by evidence.
I’m going to go ahead and assume you know that’s the case with you.
Did Rossi clear things up for you on Carlson tonite Goldy? Oh you dont listen to “hate talk” do you?
Josef,
I know who Mary Lane is. I was wondering what the position State Secretary of Defense is. Is that a real position or did someone make it up?
chuck
Bax, you assume that roads were built solely with gas taxes, according to your previous comment on the subject. It’s not inconceivable that you would hold equally as erroneous assumption regarding my ability to debate. It’s hardly understandable how we can continue the discussion regarding the funding of roads, when you can think of only one source, and I am aware of many that have come through the years.
And rest assured that had I indeed insulted you, you would have known it. My observation stands.
Have you completed your reading yet? I would like some intelligent discourse on this subject.
jsa,
The only reason that 912 is gaining traction is that you aren’t making your case well? Ummm…. ok. You have every politician in the news supporting the tax, you have every business leader that stands to gain on the backs of the taxpayer promoting it, you have a near constant flurry of opinion pieces, articles, asides, stories, and such in the public realm. You wouldn’t suggest that it’s a lack of exposure, would you?
Perhaps it’s the message, VOTE NO OR DIE!!!!!!!!!!! that’s the problem. Comparisons between the viaduct and the levees? Give me a break. A collapsed viaduct after an earthquake? Gee, sure, we could keep the viaduct healthy and sacrifice every other arterial and bridge in the state so Seattle can have more high tax base waterfront. Yeah! Importance to Boeing? Wasn’t the TWO 747 freighters we bought them to transport wings built in a foreign country a nice nod to them last year?
I don’t know. Your tone suggests, arrogantly I add, that your message appears solid, and it’s a problem with those ignorant voters out there, frustrating your plans. Darn voters anyway!
Potshot,
The vast majority of road construction in this state, and in most others, has been through the gas tax. I am certainly aware that certain limited projects in this state have been built using tolls, and counties levy a property tax for roads…but as I said above, the vast majority of road construction in this state has been and still is funded by the gas tax.
There’s a reason for that. The gas tax is required by the state’s constitution to be spent on the highway system. Gas tax money is spent on nothing but that. It doesn’t go to the general fund, it doesn’t go to buses, it doesn’t go to trains, it doesn’t go to DSHS. It goes to highways.
What I do not, have not, and will not understand is why people who are bitching the most about a lack of road construction, like you, are voting in favor of rolling back the one funding source that is guaranteed to go to roads. You are complaining about all of this other spending, that is funded by other taxes, and somehow believe that that other spending will be cut if you reduce the gas tax. If you want to reduce that other spending, and cut those other programs, THAN RUN AN INITIATIVE TO CUT THAT SPENDING AND THOSE PROGRAMS. Don’t cut spending for roads.
If you want to cut spending for roads, fine. Then be honest about it, and accept some responsibility for the consequences of your choices. And your choices will roll back highway construction.
Gee, sure, we could keep the viaduct healthy and sacrifice every other arterial and bridge in the state so Seattle can have more high tax base waterfront. Yeah!
No, it’s because the economy of the state depends on the ports. You take out the Viaduct, you wreck the ability of shippers to get goods to and from the Port of Seattle. You wreck the ability of shippers to get goods to and from the Port, and it’s very likely you seriously damage the economy of the state.
For someone who clearly believes they’re pretty smart, it’s astonishing that you just don’t get it.
If you think the Sky (AWV) is falling, then let Seattle Voters pay for it. You use it, pay for it…..If it cost more to get goods to and fro, so be it…..But to improve a waterfront, or to keep needless deaths from occuring (thank our Gov for that bit of Hysteria), this strikes me as something Seattle needs to deal with. There are THOUSANDS of miles of roads that need improvent or expansion in this state, not just in the grand city of Sespool…ooopppss Seattle.
Ohhhh one more thing…..I don’t give a hoot who supports or opposes I-912….I vote my VOTE. I don’t depend on some kiss ass politician to make my mind up, because they lie anyway. Always making promises they can’t keep. Frankly 912 is another waste of my voting time. 912 shouldnt be on the ballot, if our Gov. hadn’t lied when she needed the Vote…..Pathetic isnt it, or Ludicrious (her own words).
Bax, I am going to be rude here, as I am packing for a business trip out of state. I could not live with myself at the thought that you would sit there thinking that I ran screaming from your logic.
Please bear with me until I return and we shall pick up the topic of gas taxes.
And by the way, if YOU are going to be fair, admit that this is just a down payment and give me a bottom line number for what we will pay. Admit that much at least. Then we can have a fair and equitable debate.
Potshot,
Enjoy your trip.
If you happen to check in while on the road, here’s my response:
1) The Puget Sound area needs infrastructure. It’s big, it’s expensive. All the people live here, all the business is here. It would be more “fair” (and better for state politics) if there was something besides farms and trees outside of the I-5 corridor, but life doesn’t work that way.
2) Infrastructure projects basically break down that the federal government will kick in 66%, but they need to see a guaranteed stream of revenue before that money kicks in. No local bucks means no federal bucks.
3) Traditionally, transportation money is fenced off in a separate budget. This is funded through tabs and the gas tax. Although my inner leftie loves the MVET, and sticking it to people who drive Humvees and Benders, it is not a very fair tax. The MVET is based on the value of your vehicle, not on your road use. The gas tax is about as close to a per-mile use tax as you can get. Bigger, heavier vehicles pay more, smaller, lighter ones pay less.
Counties and municipalities can levy supplementary tab fees, as with ST and the Monorail. To the best of my knowledge, they cannot levy private gas taxes.
Now if you want to argue that gas tax money should be spent in the county that it’s collected in, so that poor farmers in Omak aren’t paying for the Viaduct, I (and, I think, most urban residents) will sign off on that pretty quickly. When those miles and miles of open, empty highway need repair, they can be fixed using the revenues of the handful of people that live there. For no man should live for the benefit of another, as John Galt might say.
But constantly throwing a fit and saying you won’t pay for anything is pretty dumb and immature.
jsa –
“…To the best of my knowledge, they cannot levy private gas taxes…”
Counties are allowed to impose a local gas tax – subject to voter approval. While I can’t find the specific RCW cite right now, I believe the rate is up to 10% of the state gas tax rate.
To my knowledge, no county has even put the proposition on a ballot.
jsa –
For what it’s worth, the local gas tax rate is 10% of the state gas tax rate. The RCW reference is RCW 82.80.010.
Thank you George, I’ll file that away for future reference.
Potshot @ 32:
What is your solution? What will work? I honestly see leadership as stepping out and doing things at times that are unpopular. You must realize that this state votes anti-tax no matter what. 912 will pass. What is your solution? The old formulas that you speak of are that: old. Outdated. The population growth, budget constraints placed by previous intiatives, and politics of the state will not allow roads to get built built like they once were. It is not arrogance, but practicality and leadership. Will people voluntarily increase their taxes to fund these things? No. How will it get done? What is your solution?
J
jsa –
“Thank you George…”
Not a problem… I’ve got dozens of them (RCW cites) – especially in the areas of excise and proeprty taxes. Let me know if I can be of further assistance.