Before I start into this post, I wanted to introduce myself and thank Goldy again for letting me post up here. I normally post as ‘thehim’ at Blog Reload, Effin Unsound and (every once in a long while) at Washblog. I started blogging three years ago after the advent of the Iraq War made me realize how far away this country has gotten from the principles that have made it so great. But for the past 2 years, I’ve focused more on issues of personal liberty, specifically the drug war.
The reason I’ve made this my focus is because after following a number of foreign policy and domestic issues, I saw that the drug war and its inherently counterproductive nature is wreaking havoc in a number of difficult issues that we face today – from illegal immigration, to crime, to our relations with Latin America, to the war in Afghanistan, to the way our nation’s infirmed and elderly are taken care of, to our overcrowded prisons, and worst of all, to our race relations. The drug war costs us billions of dollars every year and accomplishes absolutely nothing. It’s based on an assumption that the government has a duty to protect adult citizens from their own decisions. This false belief has been recognized as a mistake by people as politically diverse as Milton Friedman, George Soros, William F. Buckley, and Ralph Nader. Yet it still continues, because the willingness of politicians from both parties to resort to fearmongering has never been effectively countered with basic reason and common sense.
As this blog deals with Washington State politics, let’s look at some recent local news. Over the past school year, undercover police officers had been attending classes and pretending to be students at three Federal Way high schools. In the end, they were able to charge 3 adults and 11 juveniles with drug offenses. Two of the adults are facing gun charges for illegally selling firearms to the officers. Most of the transactions happened off school grounds once students agreed to help these officers purchase drugs.
I don’t doubt that the high schools in Federal Way have a problem with drug use. Illegal drug markets tend to gravitate towards the path of least resistance. In other words, the decision to make a living by selling illegal drugs is made more often in places where people have less opportunity. But all high schools today have some level of drug use going on. The last undercover operation like this one was at Redmond High in 2003 (you can see what one person had to say about that here).
What was done in Federal Way has been presented nearly unanimously by the local media as a positive thing. It is portrayed as a reasonable response to underage drug use. But the reality is not so neat. In any school where drug use is fairly common, these operations aren’t like finding a needle in a haystack. It’s more like shooting fish in a barrel. Undercover cops, especially female ones, can make just about any student into a drug dealer by making them feel that it would worth their while to break the law for them.
The main question to be asked is how did the cops decide who to target? In my suburban high school 15 years ago, an undercover cop could have arrested about half of the students in my senior class this way. Was it different here? Did these two officers make an effort to find out who certain main dealers were, or were they just content to arrest anyone who had the knowledge of where to find drugs? Did they only focus on a certain ethnic community? Did they only focus on kids who fit a specific stereotype (as what happened in Redmond)?
Probably the most pernicious aspect of stings like this is the belief that it helps those who get caught. I’ve seen this expressed several times, by teachers and school officials, even by one of the arrested teen’s grandfather. This is a greatly mistaken belief. No drug on this planet does more damage to a child’s prospects to succeed in life more than what a trip through the criminal justice system will do. Not to mention that all of the charged students have now been expelled. Depending on how these cases are handled, some of the arrested may find it impossible to receive financial aid for higher education or to be qualified for a number of jobs. All because they were the middleman between a drug supplier and an adult pretending to be a teenage drug user.
Despite these criticisms, I understand the train of thought for Federal Way school officials. They obviously know that drug use is widespread among their high school students. They felt like they had to do something. It’s very difficult to look at a problem like that and accept the fact that, at the local level, there’s nothing that can be done to fix it. This is a problem that needs to be fixed at the state level, by having the Governor and the Legislature finally take a stand against the federal government and start being smart about how we deal with drug use.
The reason that drugs are so readily available in our high schools stems from the fact that they’re illegal for adults as well. As a result, the supply chains exist underground and are controlled by criminals. Compare that to alcohol, where the supply chain is aboveground and heavily regulated by the government. Certainly, kids still get their hands on alcohol, but are there networks of alcohol sellers in high schools, who have large quantities of alcohol that they can sell to other students? Of course not. But this happens with drugs like marijuana, ecstasy, and cocaine, because at the higher levels of the criminal organizations that control those drugs, they could care less if a 16-year-old wants to be part of the network of low-level dealers. That’s exactly why our schools are flooded with these drugs. But if either of those two undercover cops wanted to buy alcohol from other kids, they probably would’ve been told to find someone over 21 to buy it for them.
The media occasionally raises points like these when the topic of the drugs comes up. So far, in relation to what happened in Federal Way, I’ve seen nothing to challenge the prevailing mindset that this sting is an acceptable and beneficial response to the problem of teenage drug use. If we understand that involvement with drugs is a function of having a lack of opportunity, why do we think we’re going to fix it by randomly picking off kids in a high school and giving them less opportunity to succeed in life?
This reasonable point of view has been propounded, as you point out, by people of divergent political views for many decades.
Ever since marijuana was criminalized, “fighting” this “gateway drug” has had a positive effect on police “success” rates in fighting crime.
Plus, with all the billions of $$$$$ being spent on “fighting drugs”, what are your chances for ever getting politicians to stop demagogueing this issue?
For instance, how would legalizing marijuana affect the sale of small aircraft? Heh…..
For what it’s worth, Lee, you can include me in the diverse list of people who are deeply skeptical about the status quo drug control policy
And what would happen to our prison populations? I’m beginning to think the State is in the prison trade . . . can’t have them going out of business now can we?
The US has the highest prison population in the world – thanks largely to drugs; next is Russia with about half the number and then a distant third is South Africa.
The King County Bar Association has been on record for some years now that the “war on drugs” is a failure and societal focus and resources should shift to treatment.
So why doesn’t it, Rabbit? Too many turfs to protect?
re 3: A lot of prisons have been”privatized”.
I see a non-accidental collusion between government and private industry.
Prohibition doesn’t work. But regulated legal use of intoxicating substances doesn’t work all that great, either.
Taking alcohol as an example, we still have tens of thousands of people being killed by ADULT drunk drivers every year. Meanwhile, our legal system is ineffective at taking DUIs and other problem drivers off the road. The driver coming at you around the curve may have half a dozen DUI arrests, or dozens of moving violations — and still have a license. Or, if suspended, is driving anyway. Why? Because the only way you can keep these people out of cars is by locking them behind bars, and society isn’t willing to do that.
I believe I know what the answer to America’s drug problem is, but it may not be the answer you want to hear. Just as you can never hire enough cops or write enough tickets to make a dent in Americans’ bad driving behavior, you can’t defeat drug use — and the drug trafficking that demand for drugs creates — with any amount of law enforcement either. For that matter, repealing Roe v. Wade and making it a crime to perform (or have) an abortion would not stop abortions. The only thing that will work is for people to change their behavior, and you accomplish that by changing the culture of permissiveness to one where individual responsibility is the paramount value.
This is not something that can happen overnight. It took decades to get where we are now, and changing the culture will be a slow and laborious process. It will take a long time, and will be hard work. But it is the only possible way to get from Point A to Point B.
@5 I don’t think turf protection is the main inertial force here. I think fear is. A lot of people, even people who understand that the law enforcement approach isn’t working very well, are afraid to take a leap into the unknown. Assemble a group of parents and ask them if they’re ready to back off the law enforcement and try the treatment-emphasis approach, and I think you’re going to hear most of them say treatment is great and we should do more of it, but we don’t want law enforcement backing off from the dealers or the trafficking. The almost universal answer you’ll get is we need more law enforcement, not less, and certainly not a wide-open field for drug dealing in our schools. The idea of backing off from enforcement scares the bejeezus out of even otherwise normally rational people, because the visceral reaction is that you’d be giving the drug dealers and criminals a free hand.
What drugs should be legalized in your opinion, Lee? All?
I’ve long thought that all should be legal. Truly addictive and harmfull habits will be evolutionary self correcting (read some Larry Niven). I’ve recently come to question my belief when I consider Meth.
Roger is correct @7, it will take culture change and time.
And would you rather kids were smoking pot or huffing gasoline and drain cleaner?
Nick @9,
Can’t speak for Lee, but I think it is clear that at the very least, pot should be legalized and regulated, somewhat like alcohol and tobacco. It is no more harmful, and quite possibly less. And it is absolutely silly that we fill our prisons with petty pot charges. No good comes from that.
Consider immigration. Many Americans think that brawn rather brain is the answer to so many problems. It is cultural, isn’t it. How do you convince peaple that reason works better than might?
Also, Blackwater is another example of the privatization of formerly government-run institutions. I am fearful that privatization is slowly replacing democracy . . . meaning that forces are in place to dictate to Americans what this country needs and how it will be run.
And I agree with Dave . . . all drugs should be legal and regulated as should prostitution. I wonder of our Judeo-Christian roots aren’t to blame for this need to judge everything and punish?
So, I see Kucinich bought an ad . . . or were you so impressed with him, you’re endorsing him yourself . . . nah.
@11 Yes, but there’s more than pot being sold in schools.
@12 The experience with privatization to date — whether with running prisons, fighting wars with mercenaries, or the abysmal performance of our private health insurance system — clearly demonstrates that the whole privatization ideology is deeply flawed.
It may be flawed but it is prevailing. What do we do about it? Can we set this country on a new path – one that diverges from the corporate oligarchy currently our destination?
You people are so indoctrinated. “Bad” drugs. “Good” drugs. Drug war. It is all Bullshit! How can we have a “drug war” when there is a drug store on every corner?
Does everyone accept the premise that the easiest place for anyone to find access to “bad” drugs is a high school?
What about alcohol? How many alcohol salesmen do you find at a high school?
So maybe, by pushing pot and coke into the illegal, or “bad” category, YOUR SYSTEM, the SYSTEM you support, it pushing drugs on kids.
Look in the mirror, Mr. Republican, the pusher is YOU! This is the legacy of Ronald W. Reagan, still the worst President ever.
17 – RAYGUN RAISED TAXES 5 OR 6 TIMES MOSTLY ON THE MIDDLE CLASS. I GUESS HE SAW THE ERROR OF HIS WAYS WITH THE FIRST BIG TAX CUT.
SO I WOULD PUT HIM AS THE SECOND WORST.
NEXT TO THE CHIMP OF COURSE.
I hate the fact that this story will probably drop out of the public awareness in a week or two. It would be nice to see a recap of the entire process in six months from now.
What was the financial cost? – How much was spent setting up and implementing the sting? How about processing and prosecuting the people they arrested?
What was the outcome? – Has drug usage at the high schools changed? What happened to the people they arrested?
I doubt we will ever see any detailed information about this, but my gut tells me that a lot of money will be spent and not much will change, except the fact that there will be several more people marked as criminals by our wonderful “corrections”
industrysystem.Goldy, Lee
I absolutely agree that MJ should be legal. There are many drugs w accept .. coffee too, that make marijuana look ineffective.
Worse, by uillegalizing MJ, society loses credibility.
However, I can notgo with Lee’s posturing on the Federal Schools issues .. assuming this is more than is an MJ issue. Laws need to be seen as rel things … if you are in schools where there is more illegal behavior, then it is appropriate to target those schools. As for the scholarship issue, how is tis any worse than not making the basket ball team or failing math?
SeattleJew
@20 It is the easy entrapment factor that is often used in undercover High School operations that makes the actions questionable. A cute young looking women could probably talk almost any hormoned kid into finding her some drugs.
And Lee is also correct, even the cleanest of kids in any high school (and middle school(and many elementary)) knows how to find drugs, even if they don’t use themselves.
What drugs should be legalized in your opinion, Lee? All?
Marijuana should be treated like alcohol and you should be able to buy it the same way we buy hard liquor. Harder drugs like meth, cocaine, and heroin should be controlled by pharmacists. Adults should be able to buy these drugs from a pharmacy, but under very tight controls (user registries are one thing I’d support). There are a number of reasons why this isn’t as scary a thought as you might think. For one, it will really cut down on overdoses because it will ensure that the consumer knows the purity level. Two, a weak person (those who tend to develop drug problems in the first place) is a lot less likely to start using drugs like this if they have to walk into a pharmacy and ask a pharmacist for it.
More importantly, individuals who are already addicted to hard drugs should be able to register as addicts and be treated my medical professionals. Sometimes, this requires that the user get their ‘fix’. But one thing that Vancouver and several other cities around the world have found is that allowing that leads to more people eventually seeking treatment. The bottom line in all of this is that chemical addiction is a medical issue. When you deal with it through the public health system, and recognize that the government is useless when it tries to prevent people from pursuing their impulses, you end up with the best results.
It’s important to remember that in 1900, when a person could legally buy both heroin and cocaine, the percentage of the overall population that had drug addictions is no more or less than it is today. Drug addiction is not a function of the drugs, it’s a natural failing within the human condition.
And Stefan, glad you’re on board with this. This issue has always been somewhat bipartisan, but has remained a fringe for too long.
As for the scholarship issue, how is tis any worse than not making the basket ball team or failing math?
Steve, it’s more than just scholarships. A federal law passed in the 90s makes it extremely difficult for anyone with a prior drug conviction to receive any kind of financial aid. I think that’s quite a bit more detrimental than failing math. You can always retake a math class.
But one thing that Vancouver and several other cities around the world have found is that allowing that leads to more people eventually seeking treatment. The bottom line in all of this is that chemical addiction is a medical issue. W
What, you’re suggesting that we actually learn from other countries? I thought our game was telling them what to do . . . when did we start listening to anybody else?
What, you’re suggesting that we actually learn from other countries? I thought our game was telling them what to do . . . when did we start listening to anybody else?
Oh yeah, I forgot (banging my head against the wall…)
Cluelessman spewed this SHIT: “YOS LIB BRO says: RAYGUN RAISED TAXES 5 OR 6 TIMES MOSTLY ON THE MIDDLE CLASS. I GUESS HE SAW THE ERROR OF HIS WAYS WITH THE FIRST BIG TAX CUT.
SO I WOULD PUT HIM AS THE SECOND WORST. NEXT TO THE CHIMP OF COURSE. 06/10/2007 at 1:42 pm
Yeah, he raised Social Security taxes to save the program. He agreed to a $165 billion bailout of Social Security proposed by the Legislative branch which “raises” taxes by the Constitution. He raised gas taxes to fix roads by $50 Billion again asked for by the Legislative branch. But… the Constitution is lost on Cluelessman.
His tax raises were closing three business break loopholes from 1984 through 1989 for $120 Billion. He closed corporate loopholes by $300 Billion.
According to what’s his name – Col Tucker, or is it Col Biff, or is it Emily Litella, or is it Harry Poon, or is it Headlice Loocie: Corporate Taxes NEED RAISING! Well why are you guys upset that Reagan raised corporate taxes?
But what Cluelessman forgets is he lifted 4.3 Million people from poverty with the EITC.
Again, Cluelessman gets his crap from Stink Progress Media Moron or Dailk Kurse, but doesn’t look it up.
Look it up!
To a Moonbat!, when you close corporate loopholes it’s a tax raise. Hey they only pass the tax back onto the consumer is their mantra. So when the Moonbat!s want to tax big oil today, it’s only a pass-through tax back onto you!
I am not as concerned about the very few that are now, based on their own decisions and actions, having to face the criminal justice system, as I am for those who are at school to learn.
” Probably the most pernicious aspect of stings like this is the belief that it helps those who get caught”
I disagree, these kids/adults (if over 18) obviously can’t make sound decisions for themselves, so the are put into a situation where they have decisions made for them. It also helps the many kids who are at school to learn, and it removes rotten elements from the system that tend to drag everyone else down.
” In any school where drug use is fairly common, these operations aren’t like finding a needle in a haystack. It’s more like shooting fish in a barrel.”
So we just give up and legalize drugs? Becauase, “well, they are just going to do it anyway?” No thanks.
All the more reason to spend more time and money on enforcement and prevention.
Drugs don’t belong in school. Drug dealers, drug users don’t belong in school. They belong in other gov’t run institutions.
@23 Lee
I am shocked, shocked that we would penalize kids for felonies!
Sorry, I can not agree that kids should be exempt from the rule of law. There is no more reason NOT to punish drug selling than there would be NOT to punish car theft or rape.
I will go further. IMO, it is racist to argue that because crime is worse in the black schools, we should forfend prosecution. We SHOULD work hard to help the underprivileged, we SHOULD provide resources, to help able kids, we SHOULD not force good kids (white, yellow or black) into any mold merely because of an unfortunate choice of parent. But, a kid who fucks up badly,.deserves to be the subject of the laws with due respect only to what should be our societal goal of redemption for ALL kids.
I will go further. In your post you insinuate that these kids were entrapped, especialy by the sexual favors of the police officers. Is that something you have evidence for?
It seems to me that the police, just like other groups,.deserve respect for what they do. Charging that female officers would seduce young (black) males borders on the Publican racism in the Harold Ford campaign. I am not so naive to believe such a thing may not happen but I would give the officers the benefit of the doubt just as i would stand up for the students’ rights.
I wish we here, and at DL, had enough involvement from the AA community so two Jewish guys were not trying to address an AA issue.
SeattleJew
@28
You and I agree, as do most AA.
However, the drug laws should make more sense. If marijuan is illegal at this age so should alcohal, coffee, Coca Cola, etc.
I am not as concerned about the very few that are now, based on their own decisions and actions, having to face the criminal justice system, as I am for those who are at school to learn.
How are those people affected in any way? One kid selling another kid drugs that they choose to buy has absolutely zero effect on any other student. Drug use and drug dealing was fairly common in my high school, and even though I did not use drugs at all, I was not affected in any way by it. Now if you can prove that these kids were aggressively marketing their wares to other students you have a point. Otherwise, you don’t.
I disagree, these kids/adults (if over 18) obviously can’t make sound decisions for themselves, so the are put into a situation where they have decisions made for them.
How does this help them? The most important part of preparing a young person to be an adult is getting them to think for themselves. You and I both agree that selling drugs is a bad decision, but the solution to this is not to throw them out of school and make it impossible for them to ever receive financial aid. How does that help them?
It also helps the many kids who are at school to learn, and it removes rotten elements from the system that tend to drag everyone else down.
But again, they don’t. They’re not dragging everyone else down. They may be dragging themselves down, but they’re not affecting others simply by the fact that they know where drugs can be found. That’s silly.
So we just give up and legalize drugs? Becauase, “well, they are just going to do it anyway?” No thanks.
You’re missing the point. You legalize drugs to make it harder for them to end up in schools. Go back and read my original post where I explain this. It’s easier for kids to get their hands on illegal drugs in high schools than it is for them to get their hands on alcohol. There’s a reason for that. Understand it.
Sorry, I can not agree that kids should be exempt from the rule of law. There is no more reason NOT to punish drug selling than there would be NOT to punish car theft or rape.
I’ll give you one extremely good reason. Drug selling doesn’t have a victim. Car theft and rape have victims. Teenagers understand this. We should be using the criminal justice system against people who victimize others, not against people who don’t conform to a particular morality. I don’t believe that kids should be exempt from the rule of law, but I do believe that when the law attempts to impose morality, it creates more crime.
I will go further. IMO, it is racist to argue that because crime is worse in the black schools, we should forfend prosecution.
No, Steve. Crime is worse in black schools because people have been thinking like you for the past 30 years, believing that the way we fix the black community is by throwing everyone in jail for petty crimes like selling a $5 bag of weed, as if the tough love will somehow magically transform the community. It doesn’t work. It has the opposite effect. It leads to more kids growing up without fathers and without opportunity. What’s racist is the belief that crime, i.e. drug use, is more prevalent in the black community. It’s not. Whites and blacks use drugs at the same rate in this country. The fact that you believe otherwise is because you’re a racist – a point that I’ve been trying to point out to you for some time now.
But, a kid who fucks up badly,.deserves to be the subject of the laws with due respect only to what should be our societal goal of redemption for ALL kids.
How is there any redemption here? If a person steals a car or rapes someone, he can still get financial aid for college. But if a kid sells a $5 bag of week to an undercover cop, for the rest of his life, he can’t receive any financial aid. How does that fit with the societal goal of redemption in any way? The whole point of these laws and how they’re enforced is to take away opportunity from certain young people. And this power is used in many places as a way to keep black communities poor and powerless.
I will go further. In your post you insinuate that these kids were entrapped, especialy by the sexual favors of the police officers. Is that something you have evidence for?
No, it’s just something that has happened before, and I provided a link to that case. However, undercover stings like this are a form of entrapment because teenagers do things for other teenagers for attention. It’s very easy for an undercover cop who comes across as a cool kid to convince an insecure kid to do something he wouldn’t normally do. Not knowing the details of this case, it’s hard to say what the reality is, but problems like this are rampant in undercover operations in schools.
It seems to me that the police, just like other groups,.deserve respect for what they do. Charging that female officers would seduce young (black) males borders on the Publican racism in the Harold Ford campaign.
Excuse me, but so far, the race of any of the accused has been released. The fact that you’ve assumed that the arrested individuals are black speaks volumes.
I wish we here, and at DL, had enough involvement from the AA community so two Jewish guys were not trying to address an AA issue.
Well, Steve, I was at a meeting at Rainier Valley recently where over 500 people gathered to finally repudiate the racist nonsense that people like you have been selling for over a generation – that we fix the black community by arresting everyone for drugs. This has created a nasty double-standard that has destroyed black communities all across the country. While drug use in white communities is overlooked, drug use in black communities is an excuse to knock down doors and beat people up.