Steve Haver (aka diarist ‘Red No More‘ at Daily Kos) discusses how Pennsylvania police attempted to confiscate his home after police responded to a burglar alarm and found 5 pot plants.
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I’ve said it before and here it is again: marijuanna should be legal. It’s not the government’s business what people chhose to do in the privacy of their own homes so long as their not hurting anyone. Even then, the govnernment needs to be damn sure of it’s allegations.
When revenue gets tight, any deterrent measure that also happens to be a source of revenue can be a temptation for official abuse. There’s a report on Slashdot of cities that have installed “red-light cameras” subsequently shortening the “yellow time” of the signals at monitored intersections to make it harder for motorists to stop in time. Mind you, as a matter of degrees it’s a long, long stretch from creating bogus traffic tickets to seizing someone’s house, but either way it’s just plain wrong.
Yeah, those forfeiture laws are a bitch. But they’re the law. And maybe marijuana should be legal — but it’s not.
Do I think forfeiture is a penalty disproportionate to the crime? Yes, in cases like this. Their real intent and justification is to confiscate assets used by big-time traffickers to facilitate their trafficking, not to inflict draconian financial punishment on small-time pot smokers.
Nevertheless, I have limited sympathy for people who knowingly break the law and then complain about the legal consequences. It’s common knowledge in this country that if you get caught growing pot in your house, you’re going to lose the house.
As far as I’m concerned, this guy can take his whining to some other shop. Unless he wants to hire me to defend him, in which case, I’ll do the whining for him!
@2 This kind of official rot is already setting in locally. Very recently, a Lynnwood city official was bemoaning to the media that the city’s traffic fine revenues are declining because more drivers are obeying the traffic lights. Well, isn’t that the purpose? Isn’t that what the city wants?
All across the country, police departments have grown fat on forfeiture revenue. They get new cars, exotic equipment, shiny new digs, the whole nine yards. One definitely gets the feeling that small-town cops, in particular, have become addicted to drug forfeiture revenue. Which raises a lot of troubling issues because if they succeed in shutting down the drug trade, they also shut down their gravy train.
Roger Rabbit’s Free Legal Tip Of The Day
If you insist on growing pot in your home, live in a rental house, and make sure the landlord doesn’t know about it.
You know, I had a little bit of sympathy for him, and then I read:
My point with all this is: I do not fit the profile of your typical drug addict. Yet the law knows no distinctions
So apparently, there should be one rule for Mr. Haver, and one for the “typical drug addict”? Sheesh. What an ass.
Um… Maybe if you’re growing pot in your house a burglar isn’t such a good idea. And why would you grow weed where it’s easily seen?
I’m with RR on this one.
I agree with the rabbit. Growing weed is a lot to risk for most middle-aged men who want to be part of their community. It’s a crappy drug to risk everything for; give me a good single malt whisky instead.
You know what needs to be seized? It’s the farms of these guys sucking-off the government sugar tit with these crazy and outrageous farm subsidies. The wealthy, big farms get the lion’s share of the subsidies, while the little farmers (the ones the subsidies were created for) get shit.
Hell, if you’re gonna engage in socialist behavior to benefit the small farmer then do it: don’t pretend you’re helping the little guy when you’re not!
As much as it might pain me to admit – Roger is right on this one…Though philosophically, I’m adamantly opposed to law like this. Government has no more business regulating what one ingests than in mandating the morality of abortion, imho. At least with abortion one can make an argument that it’s about protecting a life. With anti-drug legislation it can’t really be claimed to be anything but what it is – a way to exert control of the populace, and pad public agency assetts.
Is it strange that I don’t feel the needle prick of hypocricy hypo when I find myself agreeing with both 1 -and- 3? Its not illegal. But it should be illegal in the same way hooch was illegal during Prohibition. And for many of the same reasons. While I personally dislike a gaggle of the prim & proper dictating which drugs are reprehensible and which are socially acceptable, I’m apparently in the minority.
Because the vocal majority will have their way, the drug is illegal. I use it on occasion at my peril. The same way I roll the dice when I goose it through an amber light, or wait more than 10 days to notify the DoL of an address change. There are sufficient laws on the books that I challenge anyone to honestly avow they obey all laws of their city, state and nation. Either they’re quaintly naive, living a desperate life of denial, or competing with the Bush Gang for the title of Decade’s Worst Liar.
Gah. “hypocricy’s…” and “Its not Legal. But it should be illegal…”
#4 Roger Rabbit says:
Silly rabbit. The government wants to control “we the people” and take back the money that rightfully belongs to the government.
This is so typical of democrats/liberals. They think that they should be able to do anything the want without regards to the laws of the country. Yet the same people think bush should obey the law.
A couple of things Lee isn’t telling everyone.
– The mayor of Reading, PA, Thomas McMahon, is a Democrat.
– Judge Stephen B. Lieberman, the judge in the case, is a Democrat.
– Berks County, PA Assistant District Attorney Adrian Shchuka is a Democrat.
– The couple in question WILL NOT lose their house. This has already been decided. There will be no forfeiture.
Sorry Marvin, but Bush should obey the law. You won’t find anybody to support the idea that Bush should get a pass on disobeying the law. Try Stefan’s blog for that.
Troll @ 15,
Good. The folks shold keep their house. This whole thing is way over the top. Kinda like all the to-do when a candidate says something and everybody starts wettin’ their pants. This latest thing with Obama saying the people in small towns in PA are “bitter” is a classic example. Of course their bitter. All Obama did was say it out-loud.
I like Obama, but I disagree with just about everything he says, but he’s right on this one.
@13 You’re overanalyzing, Marvin. First off, there’s no “government” in the sense of some sinister and monothilic entity. The “government” consists of many individuals and agencies who work at cross-purposes, and suffer all the usual human avarices. In this case, we’re simply seeing the greed of city officials who want more “stuff” than citizens are willing to pay for. If they can extract the fines from people living outside their jurisdiction (and therefore unable to vote them out of office), so much the better.
@14 No, we don’t think we should be able to do whatever we want. We don’t think yhou should be able to do whatever you want, either. We believe the most successful society is a regulated society, and we believe in the rule of law.
Meanwhile, the conservative credo of “less government is better government” was blown to hell when conservatives got into power and proved they’re the biggest control freaks of all.
#19 Roger Rabbit says:
Why did the dailykos kid complain that his house might have been seized? He obviously thought he could do as he wished without any consequences. Read the link.
Roger said (out-of-context):
“…when conservatives got into power and proved they’re the biggest control freaks of all.”
To which I say, “No shit, Sherlock!”
Yea, it should be legalized so every goddamned municipality in the republic can get addicted to it’s tax revenue. Don’t you get spittin’ pissed off everytime you have to pay for parking on a street that you’ve already paid for? There’s no drug out there as addictive as revenue, and no bigger junky than the man, man.
@20 What makes you think he isn’t a Republican? We have a secret ballot in this country, so you don’t know how he votes. In any case, you’re attempting to stereotype every liberal in the country based on the actions of one individual. Do you want to play that game, Marvin? I can play it too. Watch:
Ted Bundy was a serial killer.
Ted Bundy was a Republican.
Republicans are serial killers.
Marvin Stamm is a Republican.
Marvin Stamm is a serial killer.
See how that works? Of course, I’m not calling you a serial killer, because I think this kind of reasoning — the reasoning you used in your comment #20 — is bullshit. I’m just using this as an illustration to demonstrate how absurd your reasoning is. Being a fair-minded person and a liberal, I won’t conclude you’re a serial killer until someone proves you are. And no one else should conclude you’re a serial killer, either. It’s bad enough that you’re a Republican.
#23 Roger Rabbit says:
For people like you that are so far left a diarist on daily kos would appear to be a republican.
By the way… here’s a pic of bush putting the moves on mrs rabbit. She looks like she is enjoying it considering the big smile on her face. You better start reading that spam and get those little blue pills. Someone your age and health no doubt needs them.
tiny.cc/8DtcW
#23 Roger Rabbit says:
Yet without looking at my secret ballot you know how I vote? If you have these kind of skills why didn’t you do better in life than a government job? Low pay, crappy bosses, contemporaries sucked… We’ve seen your posts whining about it.
Roger, I am so disappointed in you.
I have all the sympathy in the world for a guy who just wants to get high once in a while, and wants to grow his own. The law is:
No person shall be … deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.
Can marijuana prohibition be a just law if it is not “reasonable”?
The reasonable person is appropriately informed, capable, aware of the law, and fair-minded.
How can what this guy went through jump through the hoop of the bill of rights while being thought of as “reasonable”.
Due process in America is a sham. There are no reasonable people left in our government. This case is a spotlight on that. This guy was growing a plant! He wasn’t cooking meth, or enriching uranium. There was no harm at all, or danger to the community.
We live in a country where the US Constitution is supposed to be the final law of this land. But it is a fiction. Nobody in government follows it. Bush tortures. Bush approves of warrantless wiretaps. If you go to the airport, you can be given a cavity search.
How did it come to this? The top of the slippery slope is the war on drugs, and the way the courts have allowed politicans to eviscerate the Constitution in the prosecution of it.
To battle bad old reefer. The same substance that the Constitution was written on!
Could someone please now post, and tell me no one actually smoked weed back then. I need a laugh.
#26busdrivermike says:
Change the law. Until then even a caveman can figure out it is illegal.
It’s against the law. What is so hard to figure out about that.
As a democrat you should appreciate how it is pro-choice [pro-choice to go to an airport, not pro-choice to slaughter babies at the airport] to go to an airport. Can you cite a law that requires you to go to an airport?
@3
Nevertheless, I have limited sympathy for people who knowingly break the law and then complain about the legal consequences.
So, Roger, if you got pulled over for failing to use your turn signal, and the police confiscated your car in response, should we have little sympathy for you?
#28 Lee says:
It would suck for roger, but if he knew the law not an iota of sympathy. He took a chance, and lost.
Wow Marvin, I stand corrected. The law is the law, even if it is unjust. I mean, screw the Magna Carta.
By the way, isn’t there a court, an international court, that determines war crimes? War crimes like torture. Isn’t water boarding torture, as defined by the geneva convention, and didn’t the U.S. try, convict, and execute Nazi’s for water boarding during WWII?
So, I am sure you will agree that Gw Bush should stand before a court at the Hague for War Crimes.
Or is the law just for the little people, and Democrats?
Marvin Stamm, totalitarianist.
#30 busdrivermike says:
Is the magna carta an american document? What’s next, complaining we’re not obeying shira law?
If he committed a crime he should be held responsible. And congress should also be on trail too. Even if he’s the top guy, that doesn’t give his democrat-controlled congress a get out of jail card.
@29
Wow, you know Roger has said something incredibly stupid when even Marvin can make fun of him and it makes me laugh. :)
Hey Marvin the totalitarian who cannot spell:
I agree. All the Republicans in Congress who voted for the war should go to the Hague and stand trial.
At the very least it would make the public bathrooms at the airports a less scary place.
@34
At the very least it would make the public bathrooms at the airports a less scary place.
LOL
#33 33. Lee spews:
@29 Wow, you know Roger has said something incredibly stupid when even Marvin can make fun of him and it makes me laugh. :)
Wasn’t I responding to you in #29?
#34 34. busdrivermike spews:
Hey Marvin the totalitarian who cannot spell:
Good one. I misspelled a word and you caught it. I was testing you.
I agree. All the Republicans in Congress who voted for the war should go to the Hague and stand trial.
Ignore the democrats that were involved. After all, they were just following orders and weren’t capable of thnking for themselves.
At the very least it would make the public bathrooms at the airports a less scary place.
There is no reason for you to be afraid of gay people. It’s called homophobia. With hep you can overcome your fear of people not like you.
p.s. Hey busdriver, I’m testing you again. Can you find the misspelled word?
#34 34. busdrivermike spews:
At the very least it would make the public bathrooms at the airports a less scary place.
Why don’t you tell us why you consider it scary to be in a bathroom with gay people?
These days, I am scared to be anywhere with Republicans, but nice to know that you are sex positive about humping in public bathrooms. Is this something you are going to petition for at the next Republican caucas? You seem to have a hard on about it.
Did I hit a nerve Marvin? Care to share?
#39 busdrivermike spews:
I was shocked to see you considered it “scary” to be in a bathroom with gay people. Was that the cause for the servicemen being discharged after clinton did that “don’t ask don’t tell policy?” That men like you are scared of gays?
Wow. Marvin-the totalitarian-who-loves-watching-gay bathroom sex at the airport spelled everything correctly. Who said Republicans cannot be trained never read this blog.
BTW, your Larry Craig, right? You Sir, are a naughty, naughty boy.