I’m still annoyed at Obama’s “diversity” justification re: giving Rick Warren such a prominent role in the inauguration.
Warren leads the fourth largest church in America. It’s not like Warren and his supporters don’t already have a seat at the table in America.
If Obama was in earnest about celebrating different view points, and he truly wanted to send a message about “the magic of this country” being “diverse and noisy and opinionated,” I bet Jeremiah Wright is available.
It’d be more poignant and symbolic to give the microphone to someone who actually represents a minority view like Wright than to someone like Warren whose church is hugely popular.
In less sarcastic terms: Obama was forced to dump Wright. Why is a hater like Warren any better?
Warren leads the fourth largest church in America.
Wright’s congregation is probably smaller.
Get over it Josh. Really, compared to the economy and foreign policy, this is truly small potatoes.
“Wright’s congregation is probably smaller.”
Exactly my point YLB.
Obama was all on about celebrating diverse views. Well, Warren’s view already enjoys wide support and attention: 4th largest church in the U.S.
If O was in earnest about celebrating diversity at the inauguration of the next American President, it’d be more poignant and symbolic to give the microphone to someone who actually represents a minority view like Wright.
I’ll answer your question. Obama is already thinking of 2012. He doesn’t need to reach out to the left. The left is already in the tank for for Obama. Where else are they going to go? He’s now reaching out to the right. Very clever.
Couldn’t he have gotten a Buddhist?
It’s just like N. Korea pursuing nuclear arms. Suddenly the U.S. is offering a helping hand. You have to be Obama’s enemy before he’ll be your friend.
Jeremiah Wright was his pastor and friend 20 years standing and look what Obama did to him. Warren is a man with truly odious beliefs, and he’s got a spot of honor at the inauguration.
That’s why we have to keep that weasely bastards feet to the fire. There’s a reason Gore lost — and his name is Nader. If Obama fucks up, we might as well have some Republican troglodyte preside over the demise of this nation.
We already have two sets of laws: One for the political class and one for everyone else.
the good news of the Rick warren choice ….. there is none.
he is in incarnate Fallwell and Phelps with better pr skills … reading the stuff he writes and says – it is the SAMEold tired trash…god, yes dear god, why does anyone buy his books … mistake for Obame, but, I suspect a done deal.
The GLBT community in its present virulent activist mood will not forget for a generation … natables cancelling attendance at the Inaguration … why bother?
the good news of the Rick warren choice ….. there is none.
he is incarnate Fallwell and Phelps with better pr skills … reading the stuff he writes and says – it is the SAME old tired trash…god, yes dear god, why does anyone buy his books … mistake for Obama, but, I suspect a done deal.
The GLBT community in its present virulent activist mood will not forget for a generation … notables cancelling attendance at the Inaguration … why bother?
Fuck the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgendered, Crossdresser, Foot Fetish, Adult Babies, Golden & Brown Shower enthusiasts, etc.
They have nowhere else to go. Obama know this. He doesn’t have to kiss their ass anymore.
Rick Warren represents a big chunk of America and a lot of those folks are hesitant about Obama. Having Warren speak will allay some of their fears. It also sets the tone for political debates and conversations going forward. Obama can point to this as two people with very different views having a civil discourse and working together on thing that they do agree on.
I’m bettin’ that if the GLBT community (or any other group) can’t come to the table in a civil and helpful manner, despite their differences with some of the other folks at the table, they will find themselves locked out of the conversation.
@1 & 4-7….
The all-bigot, all the time thread…
You name call Rick Warren or anyone who supported California’s Prop. 8 without realizing that what you’re doing is calling the kettle black.
You demand an ideological and intellectual orthodoxy with deviations punished by hateful rhetoric and boycotts.
Can you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?
You do not have truth by the tail on a down hill grade – in fact, you do not have truth…PERIOD!
The Piper
@9…Michael…
A reasonable assessment.
Consider…the most substantive, civil debate of the 2008 presidential election was the one moderated by Rick Warren and held at Saddleback Community Church.
The bigots on this thread are neither substantive nor civil.
The Piper
The best thing you can do with these sorts of people, left or right, is to keep them talking. They’ll hang themselves with their own rope.
I, too, condemn the bigots, hypocrites, and intolerant on this blog.
@12…Michael…
True.
The Piper
boogerty:
boogerty, only in your small bigoted hell-hole of a world. You have the odious beliefs if you think you can shovel your positions down my throat and I’m not going to react.
As I’ve stated before what you do in your own home between to consenting adults I could care less. Check this blog and show me where I’ve said anything different. You can shovel yourself up someone else’s hairy hershey highway and then lick it off clean until your heart’s content. Go for it. But when you start flaunting it in the public sphere, with your odious parades and lewd public acts around young children (2007 SF parade – remember the pictures I posted here?) then I get upset and will stand against you. And you call us bigots? I call you stupid.
And, since I have religious convictions against your “beliefs”, how shall I change my thinking? I would be a hypocrite. Sorry moron it ain’t gonna happen.
What a brainless pinhead.
boogerty:
I gots lost of retired navy family in San Diego. This was prominent. See your best friend here for picture #18.
Ummm ummm NOT good!
BTW Josh, there is a great difference between Jeremiah Wright and Rick Warren.
You are annoyed is the great difference. Your all inclusive progressivism is repressive. If you are not a jackbooted goosestepping 16%er whack-job leftwing thug, you are not a friend of Josh.
Rick Warren didn’t have to invite Obama to Saddleback. But he did. He could have treated him as Joy Behar treated McCain. But he didn’t. He could have made Obama look really stupid after his it’s above my pay grade comment. But he didn’t.
BTW Josh, did you buy your “Answering that question…is above my pay grade.” campaign button? No?
boogerty, was this you in the back
Or was this you boogerty?
I expect Rick Warren to get up in the cold Washington air and deliver a nice, brief, non-controversial invocation, inspiring general good feelings but pretty short on substance–and to keep his pricklier opinions to himself. He’s the kind of guy who knows this particular gig is limited to “offering a few words” to, and in behalf of, all Americans. He’ll also know better than to upstage the guy who invited him.
Josh–
You seem to have a lot of “genes” normal people don’t…especially a gene that struggles with Bible-based Christianity.
Obviously you reject it…but you fail to cite specific “Homophobe” comments you relate to Warren that cause you such gastric distress.
You are a 14%er Josh.
Obama doesn’t need you.
As Puddy said, you have no where to go.
Wise up and Grow up.
Do what you will with your pee-pee, mind and soul….but give this a rest. You lose.
It is hard to believe that my middle aged straight white brothers don’t find Rick Warren at the inauguration offensive.
Warren is a homophobe-racist-sexist. I am all for welcoming other views…to a point. I am not religious, and while religious peoples’ beliefs about many things bother me, I see why Obama would want a preacher to say a prayer. And while I would find it really open minded to include one of a non-Christian mythology, I understand why Obama would want a mainstream Christian preacher.
What I find difficult to understand is why Obama would want a radical right wing, homophobic, snake oil peddling preacher. I would be likewise surprised if Obama put David Duke on the stage.
Reaching out to Rick Warren is smart. Exalting him in front of the world tells the world that homophobia/racism/sexism is acceptable.
The underlying issue here is that Obama and many so called liberal/progressives still don’t equate homophobia to racism. But they are indeed equivilant.
Maybe more importantly, while promoting Warren also promotes intolerance, it probably won’t gain Obama any friends.
We are at a time in history where, after almost 30 years of feeding off the opium of the religious right, even the Republicans are trying to find a way to dump them, because they are realizing they can’t win in the future by letting them define the Repub platform. The Repubs have lost a generation of young voters by embracing the religious right. It is a massive political miscalculation for Dems to think they can step in and get these voters. The religious fundamentalist right are dogmatic and irrational. It’s time to let them become the fringe, not embrace them.
So this move by Obama not only offends right minded people who truly care about equal rights for all Americans and promotes homophobia (and thus other phobias like racism) as acceptable, it is also the start of a bad political mistake by Obama and the Dems.
All that said, I think the rest of Obama’s transition is brilliant. His team of scientists announced today take my breath away. But on Warren, Obama is horribly wrong and should admit it. Short of that, I hope every good person at the inauguration turns their back to Warren when he speaks to let people know that homophobia is not ok, period.
and @21 – comparing homosexuality to child molesting, incest and other crimes is homophobic, and Warren has done this several times. Warren also aggressively worked to take rights away from same-sex couples. If Warren said that being black or Jewish should be a crime, and tried to change the constitution so that mixed race couples could not marry, would you consider him racist? I would.
Hey Josh & KLOWNS..
Why aren’t you concerned about these filthy, disgusting Planned Parenthood scumbags?
Planned Parenthood Staffer in Video Resigns
Saturday, December 20, 2008
I’m sure you Atheist Progressives feel somehow the scumbag workers who “didn’t care” how a 13 year-old became pregnant are the real victims.
Right???
@24
Considering that it was a sting setup by an anti-choice group and there wasn’t a preggers 13 year old there isn’t a victim here.
PP did the right thing by shit canning the violators and retraining its workers.
So your point is?
Here we go again. Scary Jerry Brown CA attorney general wants to overturn the will of the people and have seven people decide.
Why is it Donkey want laws decided in courts and not by the will of the people.
Jerkme Jerry Brown said: “”Proposition 8 must be invalidated because the amendment process cannot be used to extinguish fundamental constitutional rights without compelling justification.”
The authors of the state Constitution, he said, did not intend “to put a group’s right to enjoy liberty to a popular vote.”
Where in the California state constitution does it describe a fundamental right of Californians to marry anyone they want, without restriction?
The main issue to me and others who think like me are what constitutes liberty. People make the government, not judges. This issue came to a popular vote through California’s proposition process. The people said yes to Prop. 8. But noooooooo, they were wrong ugly libtards claim. We can’t have this law. It’s draconian. Well, only if you are a libtard and the peoples’ voice disagrees with your simpleton world, you need the courts to legislate.
I thought your liberal progressives wanted a democracy where we put these questions to the public, and we all would follow the majority’s opinion. Shit, you all screamed that when Hillary ran against Barack. Hillary got more votes but Barack got more states. Barack wins. It seems to me the challenge here is could the majority be wrong? Sure it could be. The majority prohibited liquor for a while with the 18th Amendment. Could the majority change their minds? Sure. Enter the 21st Amendment.
But what’s the alternative progressives? Would you want these questions placed before seven Wall Street executives? How about seven of the filthy rich you all claim to hate? What about Bernie Madoff and six of his buds? What about that lady who spends $53,000 a week and six of her friends? How about Kobe or LeBron James and five more star basketball players? What about seven Seahawks? How about seven Fox News anchors? What about Bill Burkett, Dan Rather, Mary Mapes and four CBS producers?
You have to follow and fully agree to whatever their answer is. I doubt you would want to submit this question to any of the above. So why do you run to the members of the state/federal Supreme Court? Surely they are the experts in this field? Ah yes, you mean the panel of seven to nine lawyers who were appointed by the political process, which means that you’re comfortable with someone like Rod Blagojevich making these decisions for us? Well I know you all can’t wait until Barack takes over. Let’s stack the supreme court. I’ve seen the salivation of libtard MSM types saying inaugerate him now, screw the Constitution.
If you all remember as it was stated in the SF Gate article above:”The court ruled 4-3 on May 15 that California’s ban on same-sex marriage violated the constitutional rights of gays and lesbians to marry the partner of their choice and discriminated on the basis of sexual orientation. Prop. 8 amended the state Constitution to overturn the ruling and declare that only marriage between a man and a woman is “valid or recognized in California.”” This was the will of the people. Why do you liberals run to the courts to overturn the will of the people? Is it because your ideals are odious to the standard people of the state. I remember the attacks of those two bastions of intelligence, Rosie O’Donnell and RoseAnne Barr attacking blacks for voting 70% for Prop 8. What a duet of ASSholes.
To me the final decision here is obvious. This Prop. 8 issue was set forth clearly to the people, and the issue was decided by their vote, fair and square. If other Californians don’t like the result, they can create another proposition for a revote to the people. That’s democracy plain and simple. How can you call it a democracy when your side attempts to turn over this and other essential decisions seven to nine people to overturn the will of the people? There is no special need called by Jerry Brown. He wants higher office. The people have spoken. The people of California decided, as a whole, what liberty is – at least for the people of California.
Seems to me Jerry Brown is a real dumbASS. He hates the will of the people. Great Job, Brownie!
BULLSHITTIUM ALERT. BULLSHITTIUM ALERT. BULLSHITTIUM ALERT.
Meinert farted:
No they are not equivalent. Not one iota. Anyone who tries to make that equivalence does Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. a real disservice.
I don’t remember a Eugene “BULL” Conner attacking gays with rabid police dogs or ultra high pressure water hoses. I don’t remember George Wallace using the police to keep gays out of the University of Alabama. And if you are a black man Meinert, PacMan and I will sit down with you and educate you on the 50s and 60s.
END OF BULLSHITTIUM ALERT.
Even I’m getting sick of this tempest-in-a-teapot. Just let go, already! I’m still waiting for a “Here’s Your Sign” from Warren, though.
All the crap going on in the world and who Obama invites to his party is the most important.
Wow! Am I out of touch.
sludge puppy
Puddybud, great, civil discourse.
Anyhow, yes, they are equivalent. But knowing you don’t believe that helps me to understand why you think it’s ok for Warren to exalt Obama. You are one of the few people out there that is saying homophobia doesn’t rise to the level of racism. So good for you, at least you are being honest. Antiquated, but honest.
Courious – do you find sexism to be equivalent to racism or to homophobia?
you leftys truly crack me up. the most bigoted people in this country are jews, gays and blacks. you point to a small minority of whites like kkk, the vast majority of white christians are far more honorable people than people like bernie madoff or al sharpton could ever hope to be.
Meinert, I assume you are black right? Where did you cut your black teeth?
@31 – I spent the first half of my life as a true Christian believer. I know as many Christians as non. Christians definitely have no corner of morality or good people. People are people and rarely does their world view make them good or bad. I know liberals that are great, and many that are not, same for moderates and right wingers.
@32 – I am white, straight, live on Queen Anne, own three businesses, etc, etc.
You’re avoiding the question – do you see sexism as equivalent to racism?
In less sarcastic terms: Obama was forced to dump Wright. Why is a hater like Warren any better?
Simple. Wright attacked the majority, Warren attacks a minority. Political math.
No Meinert I am not avoiding the question, I had to understand your frame of reference for my argument. You said above “my middle aged straight white brothers”, that can be interpreted as black speak for “why whitey dissin me”.
Now for sexism. There are some similarities. There are big some differences. Again, I don’t remember a Eugene “BULL” Conner attacking women with rabid police dogs or ultra high pressure water hoses. I don’t remember George Wallace using the police to keep women out of the University of Alabama. I don’t remember women being hung from a tree or a cross burned on their lawn.
It is interesting that the poor, idiotic fools on the right feel the need to continue to express their worthless opinions here. They seem to continue to be in denial. They tried these lies and this bullshit before the election. What happened?
T H E Y W E R E R E J E C T E D! – T H E Y L O S T!
I T W A S A L A N D S L I D E!
The fools lied about our wonderful Governor and yet, their punk Rossi got beat like a drum.
The US Senate swung even further to the left and with the addition of Senator Franken, will be nearly a majority.
We added 21 seats in the U.S. House. What a disgrace that the GOP couldn’t pick up even one lousy seat. What a slaughter!
We picked up Governor’s seats, state legislature seats and school board seats across the country. We won on almost every single playing field we entered, turning red states blue and kicking the teeth out of the poor right wing retards.
It would be funny if it weren’t so sad that these ingrates actually think someone gives a fuck what they think. They serve but one purpose – and that is to bend over and take it in the ass anytime we tell them to. That’s it. That’s the best life they can hope for.
They lost. They lost big. They were embarrassed and marginalized to the point that most have just realized it’s time to assume the position.
So bend over you simple trash. Time to take your ass fucking. Get used to it. It’s how it’s gonna be for a looooong time.
when al franken gets up to address the us senate, with his swarmy new york attitude, look for the your average american to finally see thru the scam
Puddy – In all seriousness, you need to study history. Women have been persecuted for all of written history, as have homosexuals, and this goes far beyond the relatively short history of persecution of African Americans in the US. They are all comparable. Different extremes at different times for sure, but none is less offensive than another.
In many countries, being gay is currnetly an imprisonable crime, sometimes a death sentence. In many states in the US it is legal to deny someone housing or a job because they are gay. And yes, gays in the US have been, and are still tortured and murdered – or maybe you don’t remember Matthew Shepard – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard. Women the world over are likewise tortured, sold in to slavery, legally beaten, disfigured, etc, etc, etc.
I am not in any way belittling the wretched things Americans have done to Blacks and other minorities, but believe that bias by any group against a another that leads to discrimination and less than equal rights is equally as bad regardless of whether that discrimination is based on sexual preference, gender, race or religion. That one group may have been more persecuted than another in no way lessens the discrimination, and I think you’ll find decades of legal rulings agreeing with this.
@36…WBOTGOP…
“The US Senate swung even further to the left and with the addition of Senator Franken, will be nearly a majority.”
Flunked math did you? And tell it to The Darcy.
While you’re at it, look at the numbers in the Washington Legislature where Republicans are up net one in each house. And that according to The Stranger
You can crawl back into the sewer now.
The Piper
@38…if women, blacks, jews and gays have been opressed for hundreds of years, what do you think the reason is? i can come up with 3 possibilities
1. white christian males are genetically more evil than everyone else
2. white christian males are genetically more intelligent than everyone else
3. white christian males happened to be the majority, and it is just human to take advantage of that majority, just like every other majority in history
which one do you think it is?
“The underlying issue here is that Obama and many so called liberal/progressives still don’t equate homophobia to racism. But they are indeed equivilant”
Well until you can show me where homosexuals were taken from there homes, sold off to straights, shipped off to another country, owned by straights for generations….then shut up with that nonesense…
“The underlying issue here is that Obama and many so called liberal/progressives still don’t equate homophobia to racism. But they are indeed equivilant”
Not equal, not by far.
as much as i hate all you new york/hollywood people, i can understand the point of view that its none of anybodys business what you do in your bedroom. but here are the arguments. governement has traditionally outlawed certain behavior. therefore it has been up to the people to determine what behavior at the time is unacceptable, and it changes over time, ie slavery. so you cant go screaming bigotry over thousand year old customs, unless you want to say all laws and customs are wrong. secondly, people tend to look unkindly at people who want to throw their traditions in their face.
plus, its not natural for two people of the same sex to be together, if it were, two men would be able to procreate.
@41 & 2 – regardless of your utter lack of historical perspective, denying someone equal rights isn’t justifiable because they are in a group that wasn’t oppressed as much as another.
Now please educate yourselves on the serious abuse of homosexuals and women happening around the world TODAY, let alone in the past. Just google “violence against women” or “violence against homosexuals”. It’s a bad world and both these groups, as well as many others (aboriginals in Australia and Japan, etc, etc, etc). Denying rights to any group is a horrible thing.
Ps – all you Obama/ Warren sympathizers – if you want to know why Warren is considered a homophobe – he also on his website states that if you are homosexual you are not allowed to be a member of his church. Pretty blatant discrimination.
@45
You scare the hell out of me, with your “if you don’t think exactly like I do, you are wrong” attitude.
Why is a hater like Warren any better?
Ummmm, because he’s white, duh….
41:
There’s a great joke in that post, but that’d just be too mean.
So lame. So childless marriages between a man and a woman aren’t valid either, because there is no procreation? You people are obsessed with sex, and tend to forget that people pair up for other reasons as well that have nothing to do with either sex or procreation. Denying people civil rights because you think that what might or might not happen in their bedrooms is ‘icky ‘ is so last Century.
Question. If people are born gay, which I know is a lie, then let me ask you this: If tomorrow all the women on earth disappeared, would there be a higher incidence of homosexuality one year from now? If the answer is yes, that proves my belief that homosexuality is a choice.
Trawl, the hypocritical liar is back.
Trul- if people are not born gay, why would they choose is? Choose to be discriminated against, choose to have fewer rights, why don’t you choose to be honest?
You should talk, asshole.
I don’t think homosexuality is a choice, like deciding on what car to buy is a choice, but I don’t think people are born that way. I think it’s more nurture than nature. I think sometime during their youth some wires got crossed, so to speak, and they just developed a sexual interest in people of the same sex, much like people develop a foot fetish, for example. People aren’t born with a foot fetish, wouldn’t you agree?
Trole- Why would anyone agree with a liar who deliberately posts deceptive BS? Again, I ask you why would one choose a lifestyle which would deprive one of rights others take for granted?
@50, trol, i am going to disagree with here. being gay is not a choice. my contetion is that it cannot be natural because all physcial and behavioral atrributes evolved for one reason only, the suvival of the spcecies. two people of the same sex together does not fullfil that goal. however, just like any disease, in our century they are all epidemic compared to hundreds of years ago, becuause of pollution, refined foods, the brilliant idea stil not condemned of putting the most toxic substance on earth, mercury in your FUCKING MOUTHS for gods sake, and the mercury travels from the mothers mouth to the fetus. homosexuality is just one more thing that has gone wrong with humans because of what we have done to ourselves. of course, in a million years you would never hear katie courec say “today scientists have determined homosexuality is like a disease”
A member of my family is gay. If you knew, really knew, a gay man or woman I doubt if you would still believe that being gay is ANY kind of choice. Just like I’m hard wired as a heterosexual male…the gay men and women I know are “hard wired” with a same sex orientation.
No choice to it, if you really are really gay.
An ignorant crock of shit from an ignorant piece of shit.
@55
Because they lack the willpower to resist their sexual fantasy, regardless that many frown upon that sexual fantasy.
@57
Rujax, let’s say I get off on sniffing women’s bicycle seats. I just can’t resist doing it. I enjoy doing it. And I am not hurting anyone doing it. Question: Do you think I was born with that fetish?
@58, rujax, i assume you dont believe in god, so that leaves evolution right? so what do you think , nature just said “oh what the heck, lets just throw homosexuality in so they can have some fun”. rujax, how do you account for homosexuality in the evolution of the species?
manoftruth, while I won’t comment on Rujax!’s family, I will say evolution passed him by.
Jennie Tlazolteotl barfed:
Excuse me but where in the Constitution do you extrude (push out for yelling loser boy) “civil” rights?
I’ll wait… but I’ll keep breathing…
meinert,
Wow, I didn’t realize we’re speaking about world issues on HA. While women have been persecuted all over the world and there have been many instances of persecution (like honor killings) hardly any of the HA leftwing Moonbat!s have ever commented on their plight. And I agree, Iran has no tolerance for men sharing their hershey highway portals with each other. They are hung, and it ain’t by their cojones.
When Nancy Pelosi had an opportunity to tell Bashir Assad how lousy wimens were treated she “passed”. So much for librul compassionate progressivism.
Stupes – you’re a particularly execrable extrusion yourself.
A real man of clay.
meinert,
Matthew Shepard was attacked by some deranged gay hating people Russell Arthur Henderson and Aaron James McKinney. The US Government did not condone or participate in it. So are you equating what happened to James Byrd to Matthew Shepard?
Well how about this one? Brandon McClelland is dead.
yelling loser boy,
Yes God made Adam out of clay. When you die you are a small amount of chemicals and clay.
Too bad your evolution beliefs haven’t improved on the original design.
@56. manoftruth
i am going to disagree with here. being gay is not a choice.
That entire issue is idiotic. Having sex is a choice, whatever drives it. Having anal sex is another choice and one that is widespread.
“Choice” is natural!
BTW, for those who find gay choice disturbing because it violate Darwin’s divine intent, do you feel the same way toward nunnery and the priesthood? Was your Jesus ill beacuse he did not fuck a female?
Or did he?
Josh and others Warren Dissers
Will someone here post soem facts? What I have heard is that Warren supports full pairing laws. His only claim is that we ought not to legislate a change in the term marriage.
What is the big deal?
It seems to me that Weyrich’s persistent success is on the left too. Polarizing one’s views over semantics is dumbass whether this means supporting a soak the middle class Christian who thinks stem cells are murder or opposing a rational President who thinks talk-talk is better than smear smear.
Fuck you troglodytes.
You guys are proof that some of us never evolved past apes.
Is there anyone out there who speaks the same language as “manoftruth”? I think we need a translator.
@38. Meinert
Sighhhh ….
There is a huge difference between denigrating humans based on their race or religion and having taboos about certain kinds of behavior.
As for the persecution of women, that is newspeak. Woman have had full, female rights that were in many and maybe most societies no more persecuted than male roles. How many women were impressed into the world’s navies or used as gladiators in Rome? In Judaism, woman have had full authority in the him sphere, the holiest act in Judaism is done be females.
The view that women have been persecuted is based on an assertion that male roles, mainly as soldiers, were more liberated than fem,ale roles.
As for gays, even if you accept the weal evidence that gayness is genetic, that has no meaning for two reasons: 1. If it were genetic, THAT would have been a good reason historically for a taboo. 2. If it were not genetic, the taboo was only one of many and likely no more subject to bigotry than other choices such as pacifism, cowardice, begging, self immolation, becoming a hermit, or other non conformist behaviors.
What should dominate today is the humanist view .. if it does not hurt others, then we should let people do what they want.
Different extremes at different times for sure, but none is less offensive than another.
In many countries, being gay is currnetly an imprisonable crime, sometimes a death sentence. In many states in the US it is legal to deny someone housing or a job because they are gay. And yes, gays in the US have been, and are still tortured and murdered – or maybe you don’t remember Matthew Shepard – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M atthew_Shepard. Women the world over are likewise tortured, sold in to slavery, legally beaten, disfigured, etc, etc, etc.
I am not in any way belittling the wretched things Americans have done to Blacks and other minorities, but believe that bias by any group against a another that leads to discrimination and less than equal rights is equally as bad regardless of whether that discrimination is based on sexual preference, gender, race or religion. That one group may have been more persecuted than another in no way lessens the discrimination, and I think you’ll find decades of legal rulings agreeing with this.
Meinert:
Can you show me why you believe this?
What I see is a guy who disagrees with me in a rational manner. Why is that a bad thing?
Ted Nugent, Wright and Joe the Plumber
Obama recognizes that the level of partisan polarization that currently infects this nation is not healthy. Most of us, except for people like manoftruth and troll, concur. Having Rick Warren deliver an invocation at the inauguration is really not a big deal. Reaching out is not wrong. Indeed, it is what we have lacked to our detriment for the last 8 years. Cut some slack to our new president.
@75 proud leftist, you make me laugh. what issues would you propose that we meet on common ground? abortion, you want it, i dont. gay marriage? immigration? taxes? the big lie is that the country can be united.
75 “Obama recognizes that the level of partisan polarization that currently infects this nation is not healthy.”
Judging from the level of invective expressed throughout this thread alone, I’d say he’s right.
goddamn america v godbless america
Seems to me the evolutionist gay lovers are still trying to evolve. Most of the post here prove it.
Then there is one constant on HorsesASS. It’s our very own missing link Rujax!
Rujax@70! Once again you prove to us the missing value of commentary. You truly are an evolutionary man of your own words.
Did your Tourettes’ return?
Jacob@78
One of those two word statements is negative the other is positive.
Can you figger it out?
Obamism … Finding the Rational Answer:
76. manoftruth
abortion: Lets agree to work to cut down teen pregnancy and adoption. Third trimester abortions should be limited to those where the mother’s health is an issue. Parents and spouses must be informed.
gay marriage: lets starts by a national law making commitment into the legal equivalent of marriage.
immigration: lets start by STRICT enforcement of the employment laws and by requiring a true national identity card.
taxes: lets start by creating a sovereign bank with the same powers held by national banks in our competitors.
Obama cannot embrace fudgepackers like YLB
because his muslim relatives will not approve.
Where is the god damn birth certificate? Where
are John Kerrys medical records? Hillarys Rose
Law firm records?
What if the father rapes his daughter and then she must inform him of her wanting an abortion? recipe for trouble.
commitment? what do you mean by this?
let’s not have more government surveillance via a national identity card
83 – Fuck you freak. Those who smelt it, dealt it. I bet this fat Republican fuck made gay jokes all the time:
http://wonkette.com/378379/mee.....-frat-boys
And while you’re at it denying your secret, why don’t you tell your partner in crime Stupes of your brotherly attitude towards “jigaboos” and “mud people”?
Moron. Hello? Hello? Anybody home ‘cept the smelly right wing vapors?
@83 mark
With Dick Chaney’s instruction to out a CIA agent, GW Bush’s AWOL records, Ronald Reagan’s mental status exams, Laura Bush’s vehicular homicide records, Sarah Palin’s son’s birth records, Rossi’s memeo to Clark County’s Nazis, etc.
mark, you woke up yelling loser boy… Notice his first post of the snowy Sunday morning is from a left-wing kool-aid kook site…
Of course yelling loser boy worships Fannie Mae’s great friend Barney Frank…
SeattleJew, that was not a proud statement.
Patrick Fitzgerald knew the leaker was Richard Armitage. Armitage admitted it. Don’t dumb yourself down the the dense as spent uranium common denominator Moonbat! crowd of HA.
So Josh if you are pizzed at Rick Warren you must be jumping for joy over Elizabeth Alexander?
http://www.horsesass.org/?p=11143#comment-886576
@84. kirk91
Rape is not the same issue as the mutual responsibility we all have for our children and our DNA. A 12 yo, however she becomes pregnant, needs a responsible adult.
Simple, the government should recognize the right of two people to enter into a realtionship that includes all the legal issues associated with being married. This, BTW, should include parents and children, elderly, best friends .. it ought not be based on a trade of sex for commitment. Frankly, I have nothing against polygamy or polyandry either.
You are effing naive if you do not think that you are under surveillance now. I do not see how having a national identity cdard would make that worse.
Hell, at least with one ID card, wer could pass some effective privacy laws that protect against the use of our identity as is easy now via the all too public soc sec number and drivers licenses. For that matter, I assume the credit card company has a better idea of where I am than my wife does! Hell, the stupid JIPPA laws end up costing billions to enforce BUT their main target, the insurance company has more access to your medieval records than a stud does to a herd of mares.
Having an ID card makes the management of illegal aliens very easy and adds to national security in many ways. With proper privacy laws, it could also end a lot of the abuses of our privacy that go on now.
12/21/2008 at 9:50 am
Stupes @ 87
So you’re a friend to racists now. Nice company you keep. Guilt by association at its finest.
I’m all for a National ID card, but you have to have it in order to vote. Then, the democrats would lose most of their seats and
Rossi would be our Governor. Swwweeeeeeeet!
YLB, are you a fudgepacker or not?
@88: Making up facts again Puddy? One of the leakers was Armitage (in fact, he just accidentally confirmed what the FIRST leaker (Cheney/Libby) deliberately leaked. It was illegal and immoral and threatened our national security for political puposes – but the conservatives you love have excused it becuase it helped their agenda of lies and obfuscation about the non-existent threat that led to the Iraq war.
@88but the conservatives you love have excused it becuase it helped their agenda of lies and obfuscation about the non-existent threat that led to the Iraq war.
so tell me, those of you who think “bush lied, people died”, is it only bush and cheney who are capable of lying? who has more of an incentive to lie? bush/cheney, for what , so they can personally make more money from oil, the facts there dont add up. trying to make money for their friends in the defense business? you have to beleive two things for that, they would sacrifice young men for money and they would go through all that trouble for their freinds. does all that seem likely, or does it make more sense that they were convinced/cajoled into going to war by pearle/wolfowitz and aipac? it seems to me that people have more of an incentive to go to war if they think it will contribute to the survival of their country, israel, than it would be for bush/cheney to make a few bucks for their friends. logic is not on the side of the bush lied crowd.
nevercorrectjuststupid,
You live on Kos don’t you.
“disclosure that the primary source of the newspaper column in which Ms. Plame’s cover as an agent was purportedly blown in 2003 was former deputy secretary of state Richard L. Armitage.”
“Unaware that Ms. Plame’s identity was classified information, Mr. Armitage reportedly passed it along to columnist Robert D. Novak “in an offhand manner, virtually as gossip,” according to a story this week by the Post’s R. Jeffrey”
WaPo
Also a little searching of real news besides kos:
“When asked by Blitzer if he had assumed that she was “just an analyst” at the CIA, Armitage responded: “That’s what it, not only assumed it, that’s what the message said, and she was publicly chairing, chairing a meeting.”
nevercorrectjuststupid, keep your head up your ass!
The rampant incestophobia that spews forth in these hateful diatribes is just as bad as the worst kind of homophobia, racism and sexism. Why shouldn’t brothers and sisters, fathers and sons, mothers and daughters, be allowed to express their love for one another in any fashion they desire? Why do these ignorant bigots hate incestuous couples so much? Is it because the Bible forbids it? Why then do they freely ignore so many other Biblical injunctions? Is it because of genetic risks of inbreeding? If that’s it then what about incestuous couples who adopt or remain childless? Or is it simply that these small-minded incestophobics are arrogant enough to think they have the right to label a loving act as a crime, just because it makes them uncomfortable?
The above rant should be read in the Swiftian sense as a modest proposal: What it boils down to is that, no matter how disgusting, consenting adults should be allowed through civil unions to create legal relationships equivalent to marriage while preserving the traditional definition of marriage as between an unrelated man and woman.
It’s hard to believe that the intelligent writers on this site draw in the group of name-calling, irrational posters that have responded to this article by Josh. I haven’t been here for a while and I must say the commenters have totally devolved.
SeattleJew – please do some research on the plight of women and female slavery around the world today. You’ll find you are quite mistaken.
Puddybud, I agree with you about Pelosi, but you’ll find that we probably agree on many issues though I am definitely on the rational left, but I believe most issues have many sides, not two, and neither right nor left typically have a lock on truth or ethical acting.
Anyhow, have fun insulting each other. I guess those of us who’s glory years were in Jr. High need some place to relive those days, so these threads do have some purpose at least
Meinert
Your statement had nothing to do with current practice. Ass for the plight of women, that varies a lot. In many societies, women have more privilege then men. Whether you think this is true in, say Saudi Arabia, may reflect more cultural chauvinism than anything else.
Sure female slavery for sex is a big issue and any abuse of unwilling humans is a problem .. including infundibulation of infant girls and the raising of children to choose to be nuns. Equating that to the issue of gay marriage vs. civil pairing is silly.
Pliny
You get four stars.
Really, this argument comes down to what is the FOUNDATION of your views….feelings or The Rock.
It is a religous/ethical vs. feeling argument.
Since Atheists believe there is no life after death, they can simply rationalize any behavior…no matter how abhorant.
Atheists….
If someone came up to you and said “I’m gonna kill you in exactly 2 hours”, how would you spend those 2 hours???
Atheists have trapped themselves into cramming as much joy & pleasure as possible into this worldly life because after they die, they rot away into oblivion.
Christians do not fear death. But their life has true meaning.
An Atheists life is ultimately meaningless if they truly believe they live, die and rot…THE END.
How come Atheists don’t have the guts to admit their life on Earth really doesn’t matter?
Why does it matter?
Don’t give me some lame explanation about leaving the Earth a better place for future generations. Yes, good stewardship of what God created is imporant. But eventually this Earth will blow up and be wrapped up like a Scroll. Then what???
We all live in the Shadow of Death.
Did y’all know the death rate is 1 out of every 1 person dies??
The Light of Jesus prevents the Shadow of Death from consuming us.
What is the reality of death?
Our society doesn’t face it like past generations where people dies relatively young….yet too often, folks without faith come to a point where they are HAUNTED by death. Think about your own mortality.
What will death mean for you??
For an alternative view of Rick Warren see today’s entry of Juan Cole – Informed Comment. Juan, if you have not been reading him is the BEST single resource for all things in Iraq and that part of the world. (Is it OK to say Middle East anymore?)
http://www.juancole.com/
He met Rick at an Islam conference, and came away an admirer, even if he would like Rick to lighten up on homosexuality at least a bit.
93 – Ask your partner in crime Stupes. I have a bit of trouble talking to ugly racists and liars.
102 – What a crock of crackpot drivel!
You can’t even keep a job at the Fucking Stranger why the hell do you think you have anything at all to offer the reading public. Just shut the fuck up Josh. Get a real job. One that you can do well.
Mr. Cynical-I told you to leave that damn goat alone.
yelling loser boy a hershey highway visitor? Are you mariposa? Noooooooo. He told us he was married to an SEIU winner. I still wonder what that woman sees in you yelling loser boy.
BTW evolutionist lover, how did you evolve?
Snail
Amoeba
Oh wait a minute… chimpanzee… You love to call Bush a chimp, now I know why. Chimps were your ancestors. I wonder why we didn’t catch this before?
Keep sliding down that slippery slope of stupidity.
LMAO
by the way, who do you think has more adavantages in our society today, men or women?
lets see
women dont have to register with selective service, but if they choose, have all avenues open to them in the armed services.
women get over 90 per cent of child custody awards.
women get to choose if they want to be a stay at home mom or go to work.
women get affirmative action if they choose to work.
hmmm, i think id rather be a woman
105. YLB spews:
YLB–
Why didn’t you answer my question…As an Atheist, what would you do if you had 2 hours to live? How would you spend the time?
Your answer @ 105 proves my point…when confronted with the Shadow of Death, you respond ignorantly out of fear!
Fear Not YLB….humble yourself.
@82 abortion: Lets agree to work to cut down teen pregnancy and adoption. Third trimester abortions should be limited to those where the mother’s health is an issue. Parents and spouses must be informed.
cut down on teen pregnancy. that phrase is typical of the hot air phrases of our society like “fight cancer”. how do you “fight cancer”? its a propaganda phrase. how do you cut down on teen pregnancy? they’re going to have sex. one thing your phrase does is give ammunition to people who support planned parenthood (which i suspect is your motive). more money for planned parenthood so they can prevent teen pregnancies. however, thats nor their agenda, their agenda is to perform abortions. just like the sting that was pulled on them by a girl on video claiming she was 15 and was pregnant by a 30 year old. the planned parenthood worker said she didnt want to know the age of the father. funny you didnt see katie couric playing the video in defense of womans rights.
mot
I do not see your point.
Nothing I have said promotes abortions. As for preventing teen pregnancies, how doesman antiabortion plocy help that?
So, for what it is worth, I do think children need access to birth control and we should do all we can to educate kids not to have premature intercourse.
As for abortion, who the hell do you know in this country who promotes it?
Seems to me you are as hung up on this as the gay marriage niks are on their cause.
seattle jew, i may not agree with you (probably on anything), but you’re one of the few who appears to have read the post and repsond, not scream expletives. anyhow, earlier my point was there could be no common ground between a religious believer who thinks it is a sin against god to allow an abortion and a person who believes a woman has a right to her body. i admit i struggle with the it myself. but here’s how a see it. a person whose religious convictions dont allow them to accept abortion as acceptable to god, will never be satisfied with any worldy compromise, and from what i can see, the pro abortion crowd wants, at the least, abortion on demand.
i dont see a compromise ever. it will always depend on the beliefs on those currently holding political power. i dont argue with that point. the people, by extension their elected reps, make the law. however, what that means is there can be no meeting of the two sides, and my point earlier was for obama, or anyone to say we need to eliminate the polarization of the country, either has no clue of the above, or its just hot air.
as far as teen pregnancies, you brought that up, i was just saying you’re never going to get the little brats from havng sex.
mot
I was once opposed to all abortion on humanistic grounds. Here was my reasoning:
Life must be protected. I see that as part of natural law. I then reasoned that there was no way to distinguish between a zygote, the first cell to combine the egg and sperm genomes, and the life that would lead to.
I changed this point of view for two reasons:
1. A huge proportion of zygotes do not develop. If I were to take my law seriously then I would need to work to save the millions of lives lost through spontaneous abortion.
2. Scientifically, every cell in my body has the ability to become a full individual. “I” as an individual certainly do not exist at the one cell level of a zygote anymore than I exist in a drop of my own blood.
So, I now feel there is nothing wrong with terminating a pregnancy in the first trimester. By the third trimester, an individual does exist so my stance there is that the fetus and the mother both have rights that need to be balanced against each other. If at all possible, both have the right to live. The second trimester is a bit harder for me.
But, I do not understand how a Christian could oppose first trimester either since there is no evidence that you God has ever said life begins at conception. It seems to me that for a Christian, life can not exist before quickening.
ok, i get it, but as you said yourself, you were opposed to it on humanisitc grounds. but religious grounds is a different story. as i’m sure you are quite aware christians believe god has blessed (or has created, or is somehow involved at the time of inception), so abortion is killing gods creation. so all i’m saying is, which i dont think you’ve commented on is, if obama says or thinks he can bring together those two sides, he either doesn’t understand the christian reasoning(which i think he does), or he is just spouting political rhetoric, because there will never be a meeting of the minds.
MOT
1. the common ground is to agree to do good where we can agree on what good is.
2. what is “inception” and where in the Christian Bible does it define inception? As far as I know, there is no citation that even describes zygosis.
Warren’s followers will see the inclusion of Warren as a sign of weakness from the Obama camp and a signal to them confirming their own inflated opinion of their importance.
You can already see this in the sneering, dismissive tone of our own trolls.
Great Work Obama Team!
re 110: Depends on how healthy I felt. I might try to fuck your wife.
Happy?
I have no idea whatever what puddybud is talking about, but it’s nice to know you listen to the podcasts, loser!