Score a victory for astroturffing, as Seattle’s grocery bag fee has been put on hold after the so-called “Coalition to Stop the Seattle Bag Tax” managed to get enough signatures to put a city-wide referendum on the ballot. The vote won’t occur until the August, 2009 primary.
Opponents of the fee say the referendum is evidence Seattle’s elected officials have sailed too far ahead of the electorate with their environmental goals.
My ass. A) Getting out in front on an issue is what is commonly referred to in other parts of the country as “leadership,” something voters in our state constantly complain they don’t get, yet hypocritically attack elected officials as arrogant for even daring to try; and B) The referendum’s successful signature drive—financed almost entirely by the much beloved local advocacy group, the American Chemistry Council—is evidence of nothing at all except a well-funded signature drive.
A typical statewide initiative campaign might budget about $500,000 for signature canvassing, and turn in around 300,000 signatures by the deadline; by comparison, the American Chemistry Council spent $180,625 to collect only 22,292 signatures. That’s over $8 per signature, and about five times the typical cost.
All in all, a beautiful illustration of an inititiative and referendum process where money talks and true grassroots, populist advocacy walks around aimlessly at farmers markets and Hemp Fest. The plastic bag industry stood to lose a pretty penny if other cities started following Seattle’s lead, and so they wisely spent 18 million of them to stop this trend before it started.
Given enough money one could get absolutely anything on the ballot. Anything. I guess, if you have the money, that’s your right under the current rules, but it sure ain’t populism, and it’s high time our political and media elite pulled the bags off their heads and stopped revering as sacred an instrument of so-called “direct democracy” that isn’t partcularly direct, or democratic.
What we really need is a poll tax on Republican voters to reimburse the rest of us for the damage they cause.
“Given enough money one could get absolutely anything on the ballot. Anything.”
Gee, Goldy, what do you mean? A taxpayer-funded playpen for your own personal (and lousy) football team?
Understatement Of The Day
This morning, McCain told a GOP rally in Florida that “the fundamentals of our economy are strong.”
To which Obama spokesman Bill Burton replied, “Apparently his 26 years in Washington have left him incapable of understanding that the policies he supports have created an historic economic crisis.”
(Quoted from Newsweek under fair use)
Of course the initiative issue is only one part of the problem Lenin called “bourgeois democracy.”
Democracy means little if some folks control the means of communication .. whether that is the Chicom politbhureau or managers who give us endless stories of blonde women missing in Barbados.
This, it seems to me, is the real promise of the Web. The promise is that tomorrow a dozen of us could launch a new “newspaper” using only web based tools.
Why has that promise emerged so slowly? Why do we still have too few major voices in the media?
One answer, ironically, is $$$. Everyone, including Goldy, needs to make a living. So, even with a production cost of ~ 0, a successful blog or web-zine is going to have to generate a lot of money … by my estimates of a relkated problem, likley about 200k/yr.
Still, 200k is not hard to imagine. One of Seattle’s uberwealthy could easily endow such an effort as could George Soros or even the Obama campaign. Then, one would hope, a well run shoestring operation could emerge as a profitable and politically effective entity.
Just dreaming.
Lovely little youtube video.
No doubt this is going to be mcsame ad real soon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnTp44l8c_4
It’s obvious that obama is so out of touch he doesn’t know the truth behind mcsame and his internet experience despite obama’s ad being discredited.
Why do democrats intentionally select the worst possible candidates to run for president?
Well, well. Glad to see Seattle doing something right for a change. This nonsense should have been put to a vote of the people from the start. Silly politicians.
How about a user-tax on crusty old shut-ins that still use antiquated dial-up internet Rodent?
What, another obama gaffe?
If this presidential election was a prize fight, the fight would be called. Obama’s team would throw in the towel, except they know they have the judges (liberal media) in their pockets.
In colorado, obama screwed up the name of the Ute indian tribe. Probably not the best way to win votes. Maybe obama should stick to fundraisers with the rich elite.
http://www.gjsentinel.com/blog.....ootay.html
I don’t troll conservative blogs for the latest about obama…
I go to-
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.....y.php?f=84
“Given enough money one could get absolutely anything on the ballot.”
How much money does it take to get an initiative declaring Tim Eyman to be a Horse’s Ass on the ballot?
Another good link, thanks to the good democrats at hillaryclintonforum.
An ad from the Milwaukee craigslist.
The obama campaign office needs water, markers, pens, pencils, paper, crayons. People to draw obama posters, snacks, chips, granola bars, soda and Diversity photos.
I wonder where all those obama contributions are going, I mean besides for the design of obama presidential seals and other foolishness.
http://everythingwebrelated.com/obama.php
It’s amazing how many democrats turned republicans there are on donedems.com
Just more proof of the democrat party falling apart.
Um, Goldy. That grassroots populist advocacy at Hempfest also “aimlessly” raised a couple hundred thousand dollars and passed a city initiative in 2003.
$8 a signature is really a bargain when you consider the key interests of the plastic bag makers. That’s probably why they even started a website to push their ridiculous agenda: Plastic Bag Makers for More Plastic Bags
Goldy–
Now think about the unwanted consequences of the Seattle Bag Tax….there are always unwanted consequences.
Have you no compassion for the poor who want to commit suicide?? What if a poor person in deep pain chooses to commit suicide by tying a plastic bag over their head. You KLOWNS are forcing that person to fork over 20 cents to a bloated, ineffective BUREAUCRACY in order to do it. Shame on you. You can’t even commit suicide without a tax!
Truth Teller @10,
I could get a Tim Eyman is a Horse’s Ass initiative on the ballot for $500,000 easy. But given the high level of grassroots support on the issue, with some careful organizing, I may be able to do it for $350,000.
@7 “How about a user-tax on crusty old shut-ins that still use antiquated dial-up internet Rodent?”
Are your referring to the 9 different itemized taxes on my monthly phone bill? I believe that’s already being done. It appears that every time I pay the phone company, I’m also subsidizing everything except the Taj Mahal, and maybe that too.
Goldy has a strong opinion on EVERYTHING.
The bill the council passed is a piece of crap, ill conceived, and bizarre. Many folks like myself who are totally recyclers don’t like it.
They were tuned out in the process. It is called GREEN wash, GREEN glam, stuff the political leaders in this city love.
Remember it taxed paper bags, cause????? Conlin’s office maintains they are not recycle material, and as we all know 100 per cent wood fiber, par with a cardboard box.
Bad law, needs work, the vote will be for repeal.
By the way, it is a tax on food as well….. bad idea in a depression, and that is where we are heading.
Many people be counting their pennies in the next couple of years.
@8 “obama screwed up the name of the Ute indian tribe”
Handlers are supposed to prevent that sort of thing. Getting such details right is a basic rule of campaigning. JFK’s campaign excelled in this localized detail work. This is the fault of campaign staff, not the candidate.
@10 That one was so popular Goldy was able to do it for the filing fee.
@12 What’s even more amazing is how many Republicans turned Democrats turned out in 2006, and 2008 promises to be even better for our side.
@15 Cripes, Cyn, have you ever heard of suicide-by-plastic-bag? If you can’t afford to buy a gun, it’s a lot quicker to jump off the Aurora Bridge. Why would anyone use a plastic bag for that? You’re a dolt. Are you buying NOV today? Better load up while prices are down because that company is going to continue ramping up its business and profits for years to come. Of course, someone with a very short term investment perspective (e.g., a despairing Republican fingering a plastic bag — get ’em free while you still can) may prefer to stash his money in a mattress.*
* Would you please draw a map of where it is and mail it to me? Thanks.
Rog–
I bought 2000 shares of NOV yesterday at $49.81…didn’t you read my post yesterday??
That’s enough for now.
Did you see Wells Fargo is way up today?
I’ve been telling you it is the best run of all the banks and the ultimate surviver.
BTW–
Aurora Bridge Jumping is also illegal and subject to a stiff fine.
See what I mean??
Killin’ yourself seems to be subject to some stupid fine or fee. Hell, if you shoot yourself in Seattle, they will fine you for illegal discharge of a firearm. If you stab yourself & bleed all over the place, they will call in the special blood clean-up unit…another bill in the mail.
A plastic Bag was the only free way to do it…and now they’ve closed that loophole!!
City erred in going straight for a punitive law, rather than encouraging voluntary participation. Remember when the City decided we needed to separate recyclables from our garbage? They didn’t require it by force of law, they made it voluntary and provided us with free recycling bins and separate pickup.
How much better it would’ve been for the City to simply provide every household with a couple of reusable bags and encourage folks to use them. I suspect that our voluntary compliance rates would approach those we had for recycling.
@12
Keep dreaming.
Goldy, I think you’re off base on this one. Industy money may have paid the signature gatherers, but I’ll betcha most of the people who signed did so willingly and eagerly. Seattle’s mayor, who got elected because many of us saw him as the lesser of evils (compared to Mark Sidran) has behaved in office like he thinks he has a mandate from God Almighty to remake the city as a monument to his own ego. Trying to shove the bag fee down our throats when stores and their customers have been moving to reusable bags anyway is the sort of thing that gives liberalism a bad name. I sincerely hope we have the opportunity to elect someone better the next time around.
ArtFart–
I agree with you.
Nickels is an egomaniac who hangs around with the Limosine Liberal Krowd…..with more money & free time on their hands than brains.
They drink fine white wines, eat Brie Cheese and try to out-enlighten each other.
This is clearly an end product of that….and too much staff with excessive time on their hands.
I hope it goes down in flames.
It really is fringe lunatic Left stuff like this (excessive heavy-handed government) that has stifled the Liberal cause.
Hell, even a died in the wool Conserative like me re-uses plastic bags
Sorry to break it to your simplistic “Company like must be bad” mindset Goldigger but…the fee is a disgusting idea and bad for the environment. “What?” you say, “how can this be?!”
There are currently less children than dogs in Seattle but whether you own a dog or raise a child you know this is true.
Where does one put dogshit/excrement filled diaper if you are a responsible owner/parent? In a fucking PLASTIC BAG!
How is making that more expensive going to help anyone? To paraphrase Nickels the appropriate answer to paper or plastic is “plastic” if you have a dog or a child in diapers.
This is the ultimate in mindless feel good bullshit that Seattle is notorious for — no wonder Goldy loves it.
By the way – I think sanitation is something too.
For years I have taken doubled plastic to the grocery outlet, for current purchase. When they get uckey, and they do, meat juice, produce, OJ carton leaks – then can liner, and fianlly toss them.
And how about the cloth bags, gunked and between washing? Yuk.
Adam @18,
I did not comment on the ordinance itself, now did I? In fact I am ambivalent about the policy. But I’ll sure as hell vote against repealing it because I think the initiative & referendum process has been corrupted by corporate interests.
Artfart @26,
If there is such wild support for repealing this ordinance, why did it cost referendum backers over $8/signature. Like I said, with enough money, you can get anything on the ballot. But it sure as hell doesn’t indicate popular support.
Adam–
Good point.
Those damn cloth bags get mighty nasty…and it takes both energy to wash & dry them.
Seems like those cloth bags have become more of a Seattle Progressive Fashion Statement than being practical.
It was just another crappy tax diguised as a “green” program. If you want to get people to change give them incentives first, then if that doesn’t work you bring out the tax.
Still waiting for our “green” mayor to get some LED traffic lights out there. Santa Clara County, CA, started switching 10 years ago. You can also get LED street lights now. Just the cost savings from from not having to change the bulbs so often (labor costs) can pay for the program. The electrical savings are just a bonus!
Goldy–
At least it’s on the ballot.
Now let the voters decide….as it should be.
You make such a big deal about HOW stuff gets on the ballot. The bigger deal should be about WHAT is on the ballot.
What happened to propane fuel – natural gas – for ALL city cars?
Oh, God, REAL savings, clean fuel.
I think the GREEN wash in this town is beyong belief.
Calling the bag fee a tax is a complete and utter LIE. No one would have been required to pay it when buying items … all they’d have to do to avoid paying the fee is refrain from using a store-provided bag.
That this signature-gathering organization was able to use this outright LIE as part of their campaign is unconscionable. (Then again, I can’t find the text of the petition itself online, so I don’t know for sure just how egregious the chemical industry’s LIE is.)
Surely they’ll be taken to court before their referendum goes onto the ballot, removing their absolutely improper mischaracterization from its title, its explanations, and all references to it. Not that I need something like this to detest what has become of initiative & referendum, but I strongly fear that the LIE won’t be removed from the big-bucks industry campaign, and that the low-information electorate will end up supporting them.
Yes, even in liberal Seattle.
30 Sounds like the backers wasted their money. They almost certainly could have found people willing to do the work for less.
27 Cyn, from my perspective, Nickels’ authoritarianism more closely resembles that of the current crop of “conservatives” than it does most liberal/progressives.
Maybe it’s time for Seattle to give up on electing its government by what I remember on radio commentator 40 years ago referring to as “what we laughingly call non-partisan politics”.
It’d be interesting to have some of these folks step up and tell us which party they’re actually aligned with. We’d probably get a few surprises.
ArtFart-
But Nickles sure fancies himself to be a Progressive. That must really hurt.
BTW–
It’s stuff like this why I call y’all Leftist PINHEADED Klowns rather than just Leftist Klowns.
Nickles is a diehard Dem ArtFart.
Frankly, I would like to see partisanship out of local politics entirely…so we can get some qualified candidates vs. well connected kiss-asses.
#35
Hey, STUPID. Read the thing, the law in question calls itself a tax.
When the city collects money, it is a tax.
LIE is a big word for your foolishness, of course you can DONATE all you want to the city.
I voted for Greg, have know him for years from city job.
Not again. He is suffering from mid life crises. Mania.
Does anyone on this post know anyone who does not, repeat NOT recycle, conserve etc> None in my circles.
Industry and large busineses are the problem, yet he is worried about my onion peel and plastic grocery bag.
Christ. And now that there are good markets for waste and recycled material, how much does the city make? Bet, very little, some sweetheart deal somewhere …
Adam (#40), addressing me:
Uh huh. From Seattle Ordinance 122752:
Oh, I see. To Adam, offsetting a tax is a tax.
Furthermore, in the ordinance’s new section SMC 21.40.075, here’s the last sentence in paragraph G:
Exactly the same language is in paragraphs H and I.
And then there’s this:
In other words, Adam, whatever the store collects in fees for providing bags is subtracted from the existing business taxes already being paid by the store.
For the record, the only other time the word “tax” appears in Ordinance 122752 is in the title of a job (Tax Auditor).
I read the law, Adam. It’s clear that you’re just regurgitating some bullshit being fed to you.
Property tax is also a complete and utter lie.
No one would be required to pay it UNLESS they buy property.
Marvin, you dumbass, it’ll be possible (easy, as a matter of fact) to buy products without paying the bag fee. That’s not the case with property.
I don’t know whether your failure to notice that simple and obvious distinction demonstrates that you’re really stupid or that you’re a deceitful lying shill for wingnut scumbaggery.
But that’s probably a false dichotomy. You might be both.