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i like how this article suggests that the benevolent government performs services such as trash removal ‘for free’ and that this new tax is to shift the financial burdon from the government to the consumer.
i also like how people like goldy think that people are unable to make socialy conscious decisions without government intervention.
it may come as a shock to you goldy, but social consciousness is a comodity to be bought and sold.
Not giving a damn about the environment is an essential part of the wingnut credo. Protecting the environment means you don’t believe in the Rapture. People of Faith are taught they won’t need this ol’ earth much longer.
Wrong, dumbass. The right is more environmentally aware than ignorant liberals I see that toss shit out of their car and onto the street daily. I look at the bumpersticker on their shitty beater of a car and inevitably, it has an Obama/Biden sticker.
I find that it’s easier to not take the bags at all. Just carry the stuff in your hands. The bags accumulate, and you end up taking them to the recycling place at some point. The best things I can say about the plastic bags is they make pretty good mini-garbage bags for chicken guts and whatnot, and you can use them as a shock absorber when you pack and send stuff through the mail.
” I look at the bumpersticker on their shitty beater of a car and inevitably, it has an Obama/Biden sticker.”
A lot of the Obama voters can’t afford to ride around in a brand-new Ford F-350.
re 1: Someone has to pay for disposing of the bags — and the manufacturers of the bags aren’t — so who’s left?
re 5: Get real. It’s a political cliche about the 50 year-old scowling jerk in his K-Kar beater with all the Bush/Cheney stickers on it going around pulling up the ‘vote for me’ signs of Democrats.
My car’s made out of Rearden’s special metal and the seats are upholstered with Central American nun’s skin from the 1980’s — and I voted for O’bama.
Fact: Washington is a liberal nutcase state.
Fact: Washington is one of the most trash laden, dirtiest states in the union.
Conclusion: Liberals dont care about the environment when its not convenient for them. They discard their trash and litter wherever its convenient, then expect the govt to clean it up. Progressive think that by paying the government to clean up their trash and litter, they are being “environmentally conscious”.
Goldy, you dumbass, the shopper doesnt get the plastic bags for free as you claim. The cost for those bags is buried into the cost of the food and other items that you purchase.
Like most progressives, your knowledge of how things actually work in the real world is sorely lacking.
@6,
Actually, I didn’t say the part in quotes: that was quoted from Empty Suit Obama @3. I have no real reason to know or care what car any political persuasion drives. I say buy a used car that’s in good shape and drive the damn thing until the wheels fall off. Just think how much wealth-accumulation potential is wasted on buying new cars! What a waste and a tribute to vanity!
yoru comments are stupid, ill informed, and ignorant as usual. They’re arrogant and belligerent. You seem to have this inner need to demonize “liberals” or any who disagree with you, probably because of your own inner insecurities which are fairly obvious.
You don’t even seem to realize that a bag fee is in conformity with your supposed devotion to markets. this is a case where the externality of the unpriced good, the bag, is born solely by thepublic that has topay for picking it up or has to suffer the enviro damage from this trash. Unpriced goods as per standard market economics get overused and create an inefficiency. The bag fee is a way to price the good. The makers and stores can avoid this thru simply selling bags on their shelves just like any other commodity. the bag fee is an incentive to do that. One way or another putting the price on this good makes it MORE LIKE A FREAKING MARKET YOU STUPID IDJITS thus leading to more efficientallocation of resources instead of the stores the makers and the slobs who throw awa y the bags free loading on the rest of us.
You’re so stupid, however, you can’t even see this. when costs are offloaded onto others, or risks as in AIG etc, there aint no market in place, dumbasses. Read an econ book, grow up and stop with the childish name calling about who drives what and who throws more trash. Our nation is facing such incredible challenges its morons like you dumbing down the debate that are going to bring us down. (“We have to invade ANY nation that MIGHT EVER be a place we can be attacked from! National health care inveitably leads to GULAGS! If you restrict guns, the government WILL BECOME LIKE NAZIS AND EXTERMINATE US! If you tax the rich WE WILL END UP IN POVERTY! We got out of the depression thru smaller goverment andlower taxes! Yoou can’t replace lost demand with government demand!” == all a bunch of stupid, childish lies.
Here’s a good example of the level of stupidity I am talking about. “Progressive think that by paying the government to clean up their trash and litter, they are being “environmentally conscious”.” ACtually the issue is a bag fee which isn’t govt. paid clean up but is a way to put a cost on the user which will incentivize fewer bags to be used, and thus put in landfills or thrown away.
We’re not talking about taxation to have pick up of trash, yet this clueless commenter somehow can’t even stay on topic.
And btw, does he really think when I pay SPU every month to pick up trash this is some kind of bad public policy? Is the right wing position we should not have public trash pick up? Wow. Or is it just that a right wing nut will say any damn thing no mattter how stupid and insane?
I see the Bush fans are here creating their own reality, again.
Fact: my opinions are my facts!
Fact:I can prove my opinions, better known as facts, are true because I said them!
Fact: your opinion of my facts, also known as my opinions, is usually wrong because I say they are (see fact 2).
Anyone with any integrity would acknowledge that liberals (or persons that would self-identify as “liberal” or “Democrat”) are much more likely to pollute the environment by littering.
I see it all the time and on occasion will confront someone that just haphazardly tosses something onto the ground. Almost without exception, the culprit is someone I would classify as a “liberal” that sees the world as their garbage can. It’s endemic for such people like liberals to think “hey, I’m somebody, I can do what I want! I’m my own boss”.
Conservatives on the other hand have a value system and do not act on their primitive feelings to just toss something they don’t need out– there are trash receptacles all over the place if you actually look for them. I’ve lived in this cowtown long enough to know this isn’t just a theory, but fact.
“Empty Suit Obama spews:
Anyone with any integrity would acknowledge that liberals (or persons that would self-identify as “liberal” or “Democrat”) are much more likely to pollute the environment by littering.”
Anyone who makes stupid vacuous statements like this, who thinks stating a conclusion is an argument, is a moron, as well as a boor. While some convervatives are like this, there are some liberals like this, too, as well as many independents.
“I see it all the time”
Anyone who relies primarily on their limited personal experience is an idiot. Hey idiot: no one can disprove your statement, thus it is not reasoned discourse.
“and on occasion will confront someone that just haphazardly tosses something onto the ground.”
You are lying. I challenge you to give examples.
“Almost without exception, the culprit is someone I would classify as a “liberal” that sees the world as their garbage can.”
Oh really. You accost a stranger, and then you engage in dialogue to figure out who they voted for?
“It’s endemic for such people like liberals to think “hey, I’m somebody, I can do what I want! I’m my own boss”. ”
Now you are trying to make a point by speculating as to what unidentified people are thinking.
Tell me, do you honestly believe that is an acceptable form of evidence? or argument? or reason?
“Conservatives on the other hand have a value system”
ah yes. All liberals have no values. To you, you are fucking god’s gift to the fucking earth and anyone who disagrees with you is a piece of shit. What a stupid point of view. You just said that half this nation and most of UK Canada France Germany etc. etc. have no values. You fucking dipshit. Fucking FD Roosevelt fucking saved our nation and got us into war when the fucking conservatives didn’t want to, and you blast liberals like this? You’re a piece of shit, buddy.
“and do not act on their primitive feelings to just toss something they don’t need out–”
oh really. So Puyallup is this pristine garbage free place, like Texas? Are you taking LSD?
“there are trash receptacles all over the place if you actually look for them.”
Another fact not probative of anything.
“I’ve lived in this cowtown long enough to know this isn’t just a theory, but fact.”
Ahh, I see. Now that you personally vouch for the view you personally stated based on your personal experience which no one can verify, we should all accept your personal view, because, um, well it’s your view.
Well get a clue. Go STFU and when you have evidence or reason or something useful to say, come back.
Look at this thread. It’s about a bag fee intended to discourage putting the bags in the waste stream. You do realize dn’t you that throwing bags in recylcing doesn’t make them disappear? Liberals support this bag fee as it prices conduct that has an externality cost and you are here opposing it, or most conservatives are, even though the measure actually coindices with free market economic theory…..you instead of dealing with that descent into name calling en masse….FDRT a biog leter, got it….Truman, who dropped the bomb, he was a big litterer, got it…..Kennedy, helped push civil rights, a litterer, got it….Obama well he’s a super liberal, my god did you see him last night, they had dinner on the beach and he threw out his big bucket of fried chicken, because all liberals litter.
What a moronic statement.
Quotes from the post @ 16
Did someone say “reasoned discourse” in that jumbled mess of a comment @ 16?
You’re right, every word uttered in that incoherent post @ 16 was exactly that.
Fewer bags being used = fewer bags needing to be picked out of sewer and storm water systems and off of the sides of the road which = lower taxes.
Why are right-wing trolls against lower taxes?
Not at all. However, people make different decisions when negative externalities are unpriced than they do when those externalities become priced. When prices more closely reflect true costs, things begin to look very different, don’t they?
Oops, missed one
The “reasoned discourse” from the commenter @ 16 also queefed:
Thanks for making my point even better than I could have…
@19
But, if prices reflected their true cost we could have lower taxes and a smaller government and if The Bush Years taught us anything it is that the current crop of Republicans are pro big government.
hey idiot. I amplly demonstrated why in fact you are a moron and a crappy debater. Your response fails to meet any of the reasoned arguments I made and plays the “oh I caught you swearing game.” So in your view it’s okay for you to libel the billion liberals in the world, but if I use a four letter word, you don’t have to respond.
What’s really going on here is you have no response. In particular, your digression into littering — which most of us agree violates a social norm — in response to a bag fee that will as per econ. theory disincentivize and reduce the social costs of the bags — shows you’re just not fired with all mental cylinders and you’re operating at the level of a schoolchild only. My mama taught me don’t ever insult someone unintentionally. Believe me, when I am insulting you, it is intentional. Moron.
you responded again in @20. You are a fucking dipshit. You insult an entire class of people, liberals, and cry like a baby when:
a. your arguments get answered
b. you can’t answer the answer
c. you get insulted in return, and
d. when I’m insulting you, it’s justified, because I have your specific conduct to go on.
You’re like most right wingers….you don’t want the rules to apply to you. You want to be free to insult millions of people with no evidence and in the most childish and stupid manner, and someone says hey buddy you’re acting like a shit head, all you can say is “Awwwwww mommy they said I was a dipshit!”
What a crybaby. You’re not only a moron reasoning wise, you’re a whiny baby too. dish it out, but can’t take it. Disgusting. You piece of stinking shit. You know what justifies me saying that? Your holier than thou attitude where you arrogantly claim a right to insult millions, people you don’t even know, and your whining when someone hits you back. What a yellow bellied baby you are.
15 ESO
Yeah, don’t break your arm there patting yourself on the back.
I specifically challenged you on your lie about how you meet people who litter and then they tell you they are liberals. What a stupid lie. I am not surprised that in response you could not back it up. Liar.
Really? Where?
haha, you actually think you made reasoned arguments in that trash @ 16? Boy, you’re delusional.
Really? Reread your post @ 16 and get back to me.
Well then , your mama would be disappointed in her little boy.
Apparently this passes as “reasoned discourse” to somone with so limited intelligence.
Hmm, yes, We all can appreciate your civil discourse. Of course, you’d never say half of this stuff in front of my face. Right?
empty suit. I pointed out how
a. you’re lying about your personal experiences
b. your claims that a billion liberals in the world are litterers are inherently implausible
c. your continued invocation of your personal experience which no one can VERIFY is not reasoned discourse.
d. your speculation as to what people are thinking is not proof of anything.
Your comment about my mama proves my point that you have a low IW. I don’t insult people unintentionally. I am trying to tell you, I am insulting you quite intentionally. when I meet all your supposed “Arguments” and show you why they aren’t, and in response you just throw out more name calling, you’re acting not only like a three year old, but truly, a pice of shit. when I demand you back up your claims with examples of these people you’ve supposedly met who threw trash and then engaged you in conversation that showed you they were liberal, you now have responded several times without backing it up, some I am calling you a yellow bellied LIAR as well as a piece of shit.
Before you get into what I’d say in your face, you piece of shit, why don’t you respond to the points I made?
You can’t.
You KNOW your comment is stupid and childish.
You KNOW that invoking your personal experience over and over and telling us you really believe it is not any way to convince, persuage, or argue, or have reasoned discrouse.
You KNOW when you made up that stupid lie about how you confront litterers and find out they are liberals…you were LYING.
And again your last post shows, you don’t meet any of these points other than to name call.
You also haven’t responded to the point that it’s fairly stupid to digress to ad hominem attacks on all liberals ’round the world about literring when the topic is a bag fee that as per market economics and economic theory
do you even know what that is?
ever TAKE economics, or read a textbook, moron?
pricing a good so that it bears the price of its social externatlity is CONSISTENT WITH FREE MARKET ECONOMICS THUS CONSERVATIVES SHOULD WELCOME THIS FEE.
But I suspect that kind of argument, relying as it does on things like knowledge of markets, theory, policy, etc. is waaaay above your pay grade, idiot.
When you start answering the points I made, I will stop saying fuck you moron. Let’s start with this one. Just one, okay?
Do you really think that by your repeating your conclusion, or your opinion, with fervor or vehemence, that that is proof of anything?
What a stupid moron. You don’t even have the guts to respond on an anon. internet site, because YOU HAVE NO SUBSTANTIVE RESPONSE (not that you know what that would be, moron).
“All liberals litter.”
LEt’s get back to that. This statement is so incredibly stupid on its face, this idiot who calls himself empty suit obama is clearly a moron. And I mean that literally, a person of such limited IQ and exposure to the real world, they are mentally defective.
Any reasonable person knows that some conservatives and some liberals litter, and some of each don’t.
empty suit man. Do you agree with that last statement? If not, you’re not getting any more of my time today as you’re clearly a right wing kool aid drinking idiot.
Like I said, our nation is burdened with such mental morons like you, I really fear we will not be able to maintain security or competitiveness and in a few years the Chinese and Indians will be making everything and we’ll be very poor.
You’re also probably one of those people who think national health care leads to poverty. Did you know the Canadian GDP per capital is now nearly equal to ours? It’s been growing, relatively, for decades since they instituted their national health care finance plan.
(do you know what that word means, “relatively”? It does not have to do with your cousins.”)
I didn’t bring up your mama, dumbass. You did. The you question my IW? Whatever that is, it is self evident that you are indeed a colossal fucktard.
You didn’t make any points in that rambling incoherent mess @ 16, dumbass. The question is, is your body ready to cash the checks you’re mouth is writing here? Well, Tough guy?
You think you made an argument against my post? Funny. As far as the name calling, I guess your limited intelligence precludes you from re-examing your posts.
@16..the dummy at 16 comments about people who make vacuous statements being stupid – then he proceed with numerous posts full of vacuous statemetents..
LMFAO…owned biznatch…..
@14,
Did you copy that from Herr Goebbels Dumb Bunny? Those comments are direct from the Dumb Bunny Book of Useless Blatherings.
Fuckin hippies.
Goldy is always yappin’ about regressive taxes, funny he ain’t against this regressive bag fee.
@15 – the problem isn’t so much that liberals, as you suggest, are litering the bags through out the country, the problem is that the useless bags are being tossed in the garbage and ending up in the oceans and landfills unnecessarily. I know this is hard for you to understand, because your conservative brain is too wrapped up in the fat that Rush Limbaugh spews, which should be taxed as toxic waste in itself.
27 hrw
I do not agree with your conclusion. I am pretty sure that conservatives fundamentally do not think that there are any negative externalities associated with the use of petroleum-based plastics in general or plastic grocery bags in particular. Given that POV, why would they “welcome” a fee?
However, our trolls are much more inclined to goad you into personal attacks rather than to discuss the actual substance of an issue. You might think twice about the use of your time and resources playing their game.
@ 3:
Agreed. Here we are over a fucking year after the election, yet the evidence of lazy libtardos too trashy to remove these stickers is evident on shitty Volvos, beater VW’s, Lesbarus and Prius’s (Prii?) everywhere. Sort of like hicks and trailer trash that leave Christmas lights hanging all year. Classy! On a side note, most of them are stupid enough to place these stickers on a painted area, leaving them an unhappy surprise when they do finally get around to removing them. Hardy-har-har.
Surely no one has seen any Bush-Cheney stickers remaining on the cars of those virtuous, industrious conservatives. It would be impossible.
Of course not, dumbass. We’re able to move on in life. Unlike the retarded leftists I see still with their Gore/Lieberman or Howard Dean bumperstickers. The biggest violator is the Lesbaru outback…
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
Oh, yes, that poor schmuck Howard Dean, who only showed us how to organize nationally to kick Republican ass from sea to shining sea.
How’s NY-23 treatin’ ya?
D.C. was run for years by a crack addicted Democrat mayor Marion Barry who served time and was re-elected by the brain dead liberals in Washington D.C when his dumb, ignorant ass got out of jail.
This explains alot about the liberal mindset.
You mean howard the coward Dean? That fuck’s 15 minutes were up years ago..
Yeah ESO,
Marion Barry was only the first president of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC). He also served as the leader of the Free [Washington] DC Movement, strongly supporting increased home rule for the District of Columbia. After Washington DC’s Home Rule was established in 1974, he was elected to Washington’s first elected city council.
I imagine that the goodwill he garnered as a leader in the Civil Rights movement under Dr. King and his leading position establishing the first-ever self-government for Washington DC has led to the city, and particular Ward 8, to look kindly upon him even in the face of his transgressions.
Kinda like George Bush re-hiring the convicted and disgraced felons Admiral Poindexter, John Negroponte, and Elliott Abrams.
Howard Dean was only head of the DNC that crushed Republicans nationwide in 2006 and 2008. It still hurts, don’t it?
It’s no surprise that Washington State Republicans have become embittered and hostile. This is not friendly territory for them, and their best hope for the future is the non-teabagger Rob McKenna, which I am sure sets their little ground-down teeth on edge every time they think about it.
Does anyone really care what Washington D.C. does out here? It’s run by retarded people like those in Washington state (i.e. liberals), but hey, when we have a more literate and intelligent electorate, we’ll turn this disaster around. Hopefully McKenna is a true a conservative and not a limp wristed wannabe liberal posing as a Republican.
46 ESO
Not a real manly Republican like Larry Craig, right? Of course gay people are anathema only to homophobic Republicans.
Anyway, I wouldn’t get my hopes up about R McK if I were you, for two reasons. One, Rob McKenna seems to be a bit more in the mold of the moderate Republican, given his upbringing in Bellevue, UW undergrad/University of Chicago Law background. And two, he is more or less the entire GOP bench in Washington state. Even if he wins, you’ve got basically no one else. I’m dying to see what kind of loser you guys offer up as a sacrifice to Patty Murray.