Even the Wall Street Journal has taken notice of Washington DOT’s innovative, home brew road de-icer:
The mix consists of molasses from a local supplier, calcium chloride and brine donated by a local dairy company. Mr. Simonsen had been experimenting with the right proportions and ingredients for several years, blending them in a 1,000-gallon vat and dispersing the liquid with the same salt trucks. He first used it last year on a busy mountain pass in southwest Washington.
This season, the state’s department of transportation has been spreading the solution throughout 11 counties, up from one last winter, with the help of a new automated system that can churn out 5,000 gallons of it in an hour. It has come in handy during a particularly heavy winter.
DOT is brewing the concoction at a Darigold farm in Chehalis, and the savings to taxpayers have been significant… only about $0.48/gallon for the home brew mixture compared to $1.30/gallon for commercially available de-icer. Transportation officials are new considering building production facilities in each of the state’s six regions.
But wait… is de-icer production really the proper role of government? Isn’t the private sector always more efficient than the public sector, and doesn’t this amount to unfair, taxpayer subsidized competition to the hard working folks in the de-icing business? Perhaps all you free marketeers out there can explain this to me?
Hmmmm! Reminds me of NASA inventing things and then licensing their discoveries to the public (or do they just give their ideas away?)
Sell the concoction to the other states, or to the City of Seattle (listening, mayor Nickels?)! That’d make a dent in that $5 million shortfall, now wouldn’t it?
.
.
.
Oh, wait, I’m off by an order of magnitude or three, aren’t I?
This is a case of government innovation kicking the h#!*% out of private industry. We should make this a money making state run industry and sell it to other states.
Heck, maybe Washington state should take over GM….
There was a news item a couple weeks ago about a spice company in Ankenny, Iowa donating nine tons of surplus garlic salt to the town for de-icing. Apparently it worked quite well, but the road crews reported that the smell made them feel really hungry.
@4: Hey, then we need to set up state run restaurants on roads that are often de-iced with garlic salt :).
It’s all about the marketing….
I worked for nine years in government-sponsored research to determine how to better predict and prevent heart disease. Meanwhile the food, entertainment and sofa industries were hard at work inventing more effective ways to clog up everyone’s coronary arteries.
@6: ArtFart
I want to commend you on your work – but unfortunately, you were out-gunned and out MickeyD’ed. We know what causes heart disease:
Too much inflammation and too much cholesterol. We also know how to stop heart disease: diet and exercise. So many people would rather take a pill than change their life style….and it turns out that statind decrease the risk of heart disease primarily by decreasing inflammation – not by reducing cholesterol (like they advertise).
@1 Hmmmm … reminds me of the Republican innovation of using our taxpayer dollars to pay Blackwater mercenaries $150,000 a year to do the same job in Iraq that I got paid $258 a month to do in Vietnam.
Whatever privatization is, it sure as hell isn’t a good deal for us
taxpayers who foot the bills. And, of course, conservative ideologues understand that. From their point of view, privatization has never beeen about saving you money; its objective is to lift money from your pockets and put it in their pockets and their friends’ pockets.
The ever-ingenious Republicans in the Bush administration, given the chance, would cut production costs even further by buying it from the Chinese, who would use political prisoners to make it. Of course, to make this work according to Republican ideology, it would have to be marketed through private vendors who would slap on a huge markup, and taxpayers wouldn’t save any money at all. But a whole new generation of Bush cronies would make huge fortunes by buying it cheap from China and selling it for an arm and a leg to the taxpayers.*
* This is what Republicans refer to as “earning” and “working hard for” their multimillion-dollar incomes.
@6 Another case of inventing a disease for the cure, because there’s no profit in good health.
7 Ah, yes….statins. I’m sure quite a few of y’all heard the report about the study that appeared to show that if everyone took statins, we’d all cut our risk of heart attacks in half. How many of you are aware that the study was pretty much thoroughly debunked? Seems the cohort of participants consisted entirely of young, apparently healthy adults. Remember how they said they cut the length of it short because the results were “so dramatic”? Well, reducing the incidence of heart attacks in a group of 20- and 30-year-olds from zero to half of zero isn’t really all that “dramatic”, and not continuing the study long enough for any of them to get old enough to be likely to get sick makes the whole thing clinically meaningless.
Oh, yeah…turns out the whole thing was sponsored by AstraZeneca. Yanno…the company that puts all the commercials on TV with Mandy Patinkin walking down those stairs telling all of us we should go nag our doctors to put us on Crestor.
What they also don’t mention is that the potential reduction of risk for heart disease in healthy people is at least a couple of orders of magnitude less than the risk of a nasty side effect that dissolves your muscles into glup that clogs up your liver and kills you.
Racist Airline Kicks Muslim Family Off Plane
A Muslim tax attorney, his brother (who is also an attorney), their wives, a sister, and three children who boarded an Air Trans plane in Washington D.C. to fly to Orlando were pulled off the plane for questioning after a few of the family members were overheard discussing among themselves where the safest place to sit was. The FBI agents who questioned them not only cleared them but tried to persuade Air Trans to let them reboard, but the airline refused to let them reboard.
Now tell me this isn’t flat-ass racism by the airline. It can’t be anything else, because they not only kicked the talkers off, they kicked the whole group off. What that tells me it isn’t about Air Trans not wanting passengers discussing safety aboard the plane, it’s about Air Trans not wanting people with brown skin and Muslim religious beliefs about their planes.
I hope these attorneys sue this racist airline for racial discrimination! In case Air Trans officials haven’t gotten the word that’s illegal and actionable in this country now.
Pelletizer@8: Golly it reminds me of the Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein’s innovation of using our taxpayer dollars from the Milcon budget to pay her husband Richard C. Blum providing lousy medical care to American military wounded.
“The MILCON subcommittee is not only in charge of supervising military construction, it also oversees “quality of life” issues for veterans, which includes building housing for military families and operating hospitals and clinics for wounded soldiers. Perhaps Feinstein is trying to disassociate herself from MILCON’s incredible failure to provide decent medical care for wounded soldiers. ”
Can you say Walter Reed Army Medical Center? But wait a minute… the small minded mental midgets here tried to blame that on Bush.
But then again mental midget yelling loser boy will claim this truth is right-wing trash.
Wait until the unions get ahold of the notion that someone innovated and they didn’t get a cut so they’ll be claiming intellectual property, suing darigold and upping the price to $37 dollars a gallon.
Easy answer goldy…
Watch the price go up as time goes by since there is no penalty for government underestimating.
An example would be the original estimate for the boston big dig (2.8 billion $) and the current estimated total costs of 22 billion $$.
Did that help you out Goldy?
Considering the sorry state of health in america this is yet another example of non-government industries doing a better job than taxpayer paid employees.
But-but-but-but…..isn’t an unspeakable heresy among conservatives that “America has the best health care system in the world”?
Jump, Marvin, jump!
Health care and health are 2 different things. The best doctors in the world can’t force people like you to get off their ass and get exercise. Until people like you take responsibility for your own health, the american health care system is only trying to fix what you failed to take care of.
When you get sick, do you use the american healthcare system? Would that make you a hypocrite or just a lack of self-respect to not get quality healthcare.
Thanks for copying me. I enjoy knowing I’ve made that kind of impression on you.
Last year, in Ohio, BEET JUICE was the de-icer du jour.
http://www.wlwt.com/news/15096060/detail.html
My brother told me it was used in other Midwest States…the problem, it turned your car purple.
Many alternative de-icers are being used nationwide. Just because the DOT CLAIMS to invent this new concoction, doesn’t make it so.
Wow, Goldy, are you stupid or dishonest? Well, I know you’re dishonest, but I can’t tell if you are being dishonest *here*.
No free-market person thinks the government should never do for itself. If the government is going to take it upon itself to manage the roads, and keep them free of snow and ice, then of course the government can provide its own de-icer.
This is like saying, “shouldn’t the government always go to the free market for military supplies, instead of making its own?” That’s up to the military. It’s the function itself, not whether the government in performing that function is supplied by the free market, which is at issue.
The sad part, of course, is that our government has done the worst job I’ve ever seen anywhere of actually keeping the roads clear. If a private company were in charge of it, we would have had clear roads, and lost a lot less in time and money due to the recent storms.
Looks like Calcium chloride/Brine is NOT a new idea……….
http://www.plowsite.com/showth.....38;t=71173
Try googling Calcium Chloride & Brine
Here is another article from IOWA dated 1995-
http://www.usroads.com/journal.....970202.htm
Sounds like Simonson want us to believe he dreamed this up.
ConMan.
You’re making lots of assumptions. A element of the story is here:
“Rock-salt prices normally surge in January and February, when communities running low on salt resort to buying the de-icing compound on the open market. But after last year’s fierce winter taxed supplies, state and local government officials ordered tens of thousands of tons more salt ahead of this season. The high demand pushed salt prices to $60 to $120 per ton in many places, from last year’s range of $30 to $50 a ton.”
So, molasses and other ingredients may provide a short-term fix for local government here and there, but if producers began using them as a general replacement for rock salt their cost advantage would shrink, perhaps making the new brew more expensive than the original rock salt. In addition, these new mixtures may have other disadvantages that only large scale use would discover. Remember corn-based ethanol?
Incidentally, shouldn’t Seattle be looking at molasses-based de-icers rather than salt in their revised policy?
Yet another link to a PRIVATE INDUSTRY Chemical Company site:
http://www.peterschemical.com/.....-chloride/
You KLOWNS will fall for anything the government tells you.
@23 You KLOWNS will fall for anything the government tells you.
——–
Perhaps this:
“A group of Democratic governors warned Friday that without as much as $1 trillion in federal assistance, many states will not be able to pay their bills in the next year.”
?
http://www.politico.com/news/s.....17000.html
@20: I don’t have to ask if Pudge is stupid or dishonest – he is both. Pudge still thinks global warming is a liberal conspiracy – yet has not bothered to ask the real scientists at the UW in atmospheric science what they think.
An intellectual midget like Pudge should not be challenging anyone….it’s like a yippy little dog that runs with it’s tail between it’s legs after the big dog comes over.
All the big cities on the east coast (Boston, NY, Chicago) and in the Midwest regularly clear the snow efficiently and are run by…liberals. So much for your puny theory about Seattle. Seattle doesn’t clear snow becuase the cost (of maintianing a fleet of snow plows and trucks) is not worth it in most years. The most efficient snow removal for Seattle is soemthing called rain. I’ll explain that for you later.
“Perhaps all you free marketeers out there can explain this to me?”
Sure, a broken clock is right twice a day…..
Yawn:
Pudge still thinks global warming is a liberal conspiracy
You’re lying.
yet has not bothered to ask the real scientists at the UW in atmospheric science what they think.
I’ve read the IPCC reports. Have you?
All the big cities on the east coast (Boston, NY, Chicago) and in the Midwest regularly clear the snow efficiently and are run by…liberals. So much for your puny theory about Seattle.
You’re lying. I have no theory about snow removal and Seattle that has anything to do with them being liberal.
I lived in Massachusetts for 20 years. I was chair of my town’s Finance Committee with a $100,000 annual budget, most of it going to cost overruns for snow removal. I understand snow removal pretty well … certainly better than most people in Washington, including Nickels and yourself.
Seattle doesn’t clear snow because the cost (of maintianing a fleet of snow plows and trucks) is not worth it in most years.
Incorrect. Not using salt, and putting rubber strips on the plows, has nothing to do with cost. I am not saying salt SHOULD be used, except in emergencies, like we had. I think Nickels’ new policy is the correct one: use it if the conditions demand it, if NOT using it would cause more damage than using it.
(The town I was on the Finance Committee in, FWIW, is the home of the National Cranberry Festival, and much of the area is a No Salt Zone because of the damage salt does to the cranberry plants. So I don’t say salt should absolutely be used, but it should be an option in emergency conditions.)
Using salt and removing the rubber strips has nothing to do with costs. It has to do with competence.
And yes, rain is a great method for removing snow, if you can get it. When you can’t, you need to actually remove it yourself.
I find it cute, funny and a little sad that the right wing idiots and fools (you know the ones we bent over and ass-fucked as a nation on Nov 4) would think their opinion on snow removal (or anything else) matters!
You punks got laughed at. You were denied, rejected, reduced to nothing. Nobody cares what you think. Tell all the lies you want. Nobody is listening. We’ll kick your sorry asses again in 2010 and then you’ll find out just how bad life can be.
In the mean time, I’m having a good old time laughing at you worthless fuckheads!
Mr. Dover:
You must not be talking about me, since everything I said is obviously true. No “lies” here.
And perhaps you forgot that the GOP *gained seats* in the state legislature in November 2008. Oops.
You suck at this. Pick a new hobby.
Governmental agencies always underestimate/miss-represent the cost of things. The author must be a punk kid who hasn’t lived long enough to know this.
@29
Yeah, we on the left don’t like that guy either.
@29
Republicans in the 26th LD ran a moderate with experience working in government and a far right candidate who ran a “government is the problem” style campaign.
The moderate who sees the need for governance and good in government was the one that won her race.
List of GOP obliteration on Nov 4 – America’s total rejection, dismissal and repudiation of the cowards, fools and punks who vote republican…
WA State – Dem held the Governor seat against criminal Dino Rossi – added Dem as lands commissioner – add Dem as school commissioner –
US Congress – picked up an astonishing 27 seats –
US Senate – picked up an astonishing 8 or 9 seats –
US White House – helped relocate stupid and his party to the irrelevant zone winning one for the Dems –
Governorships – Plus 7 add –
Big City Mayors – Plus 8 add –
Utter rejection of the lies on the right and the worlds’ worst massive ass fucking of the retarded GOP.
And the best part is – we’re STILL laughing at the fools in the “Grand Olde Party!”
HA HA HA HA!
But there is a bright spot for the fools on the right. The dog catcher in Macon, GA went from Dem to GOP! Hooray for the retards!
ByebyeGoober@29&33: Looks like your peeps are rejecting your commentary.
yelling loser boy still likes you though. He likes stupidity…
Michael: every district is different.
Mr. Dover: I stopped reading your last post when you lied and called Rossi a criminal.
JJJ @ 14 said: “Wait until the unions get ahold of the notion that someone innovated and they didn’t get a cut…”
I don’t know the particulars on this example, but since you are trying to draw some broad generalizations, allow me to tell you how it usually works in real life.
Somebody on the road crew points out that de-icer isn’t that complicated to make, they know some relative or other who used to make it from materials on-hand at their farm, at a much cheaper price than from the usual sources.
The manager tells the guy on the road crew that he obviously doesn’t know what he’s talking about, the stuff they use on the roads is a lot more complicated than what his uncle used to make, and he should get back to work and quit wasting his time jabbering about nonsense.
Then the manager submits it as an “efficiency proposal”, hoping to get a bonus or a promotion for his initiative.
But the guys in upper management review these proposals. This particular proposal gets nixed, for any reason they can think of.
Then one of the upper management guys fleshes out the proposal, changes a few details so he can argue it’s unrelated to the previous proposal, and gets someone to approve it. He gets put in charge of the program, eventually gets a big bonus, a raise, a promotion, and a great line item on his resume for his next job.
The guy on the road crew who originally came up with the idea gets nothing. Neither does the lower-level manager, who tried to steal the idea from the road crew guy but got screwed himself, also.
Unfortunately, this process gets repeated multiple times, and it doesn’t matter whether the shop is union, non-union, government, or private. After the first such occurance, workers learn just to keep their mouths shut.
I knew one guy who thought a vendor of his company was charging them too much. His own company was privately owned, a non-union shop. He complained to management, but they did nothing. So he decided to set up his own company providing the same product, putting his family to work, and then submitted a proposal to supply the company with the same product for a fraction of the cost.
It turns out the director of purchasing was an old fraternity buddy of the sales director of the original vendor. Before it was over, the guy was fired for “conflict of interest” and “stealing propietary information” (i.e., pricing of the product), and sued by the vendor.
That’s why conservative proganda that “those who show initiative will be rewarded” is so much bunk.
Hey, I once submitted an efficiency proposal in a contest submitted by one of my previous employers. If adopted, the program could have cut shipping costs by some 7% – and shipping costs were a considerable line item at that company.
When I submitted my proposal, my manager got mad, because I hadn’t “run it by him first”. I didn’t do it on purpose, because I knew he was a lying, back-stabbing SOB who would have stolen the idea for himself.
Finally, the company announced that it appreciated all of the submittals. I got a $10.00 gift certificate, but no comment on my proposal (it was never adopted). The winner of the $500 prize was somebody who suggested that we all have “mail codes” to make sorting the mail easier – which I thought was pretty silly, in a company with less than fifty employees.
rhp@36 That’s why conservative proganda that “those who show initiative will be rewarded” is so much bunk.
What are you talking about? Can you cite me some “conservative propaganda” that claims this? I doubt it. Even if you can, however, it’s hardly representative of conservatives in general (speaking of “broad generalizations”).
I’ll explain it.
They likely were doing it on the side rather than having a line item and budget that was appropriated that they HAD to spend.
rhp6033 mentioned:
Did he vote Democratic?
Even a blind squirrel will find a nut occasionally and broken clocks are right twice a day.
This story is equivalent to pointing to a lotto winner as proof that the lottery is a good retirement investment!
Some things ARE good to have govt. doing. This is a nice example. But gold one, are you really trying to say that the public sector does everything better all the time? Are you really trying to go there?
Puddy @ 40: Nope, he was as Republican as they come. I always wondered about his credentials. He kept talking about his “business degree”, but never was clear about from which college he received it, or when. When faced with a subject he didn’t know anything about, he would try to B.S. his way out of it, with sometimes humerous consequences, sometimes disasterious ones. In one conversation I had with him, it became clear that he didn’t know the difference between “cost basis” and “cash basis” accounting – kindof funny for someone with a “business degree”, don’t you think?
“…calcium chloride and brine donated by a local dairy company.” that’s why it’s so cheap. wasn’t that the original point?