The recent execution-style murder of Officer Timothy Brenton has justifiably shaken the residents of Seattle. The suspect, Christopher Monfort, is most certainly the culprit. His car was seen at the crime scene, and when discovered at his apartment a few days later, police claim to have found DNA and ballistics evidence that links him to the crime. Monfort openly talked of waging war against the police, having previously sent threatening letters and is likely also responsible for firebombing several police cruisers. He’s expected to stand trial for these crimes, but I must strongly disagree with that decision. He should be permanently held as a war criminal and not given a trial at all.
There are a number of reasons why I’ve come to this conclusion. For one, a trial is exactly what Monfort wants. He wants to be given a stage to air his views and be seen as a Che Guevara-type figure. He’ll be able to speak freely and criticize the police. And this will fulfill his desire to go down as a martyr for his cause. In addition, the independent media, who are generally anti-police in their perspective, will never present his trial in the proper light. And finally, the city of Seattle simply shouldn’t be subjected to the painful sight of watching a defense attorney try to downplay the seriousness of Monfort’s crimes.
Obviously, I’m being facetious with this argument. It seems odd to consider not trying Monfort in a criminal court, even for crimes that we’re fairly certain he committed. But each of the reasons that former 9/11 co-commissioner Tom Kean gave in the links above are just as true for Christopher Monfort as they are for Khalid Shiekh Mohammed. The distinctions we make in order to separate the two are purely technical – he’s not an American citizen, we’re “at war” with the terrorists. Neither excuse changes the overall logic of having trials for people who’ve committed even the most heinous of crimes. And the excuses for not giving Mohammed a trial for his crimes are just as invalid and absurd as they are when applied to Monfort.
I’d still imagine that there are some who’ve thought (or maybe even still think) that whenever a crime like the murder of Officer Brenton is committed, that we can just do away with our centuries old system of due process and just hang the accused in the public square. But that impulse is usually blunted by the reality that we have a system here that works, and has worked for hundreds of years. Yet when the accused is from another part of the world or when the circumstances feel like a “war”, it gives people an excuse to follow that impulse, regardless of how illogical the rationale becomes. That’s how we end up with someone who was once considered your typical “moderate” Republican making extremist arguments like the ones Kean makes in that interview.
Trying Khalid Sheik Mohammed in an American court for his crimes is no more a danger than trying Monfort for his. We don’t fear the possibility that Monfort will have a trial in which he’ll have the right to representation and can speak only in court. Even people like me, who write about the kinds of police abuses that Monfort became agitated over, have no interest in listening to what that jackass has to say about it. The belief that this dynamic is somehow different in the Muslim world, in that a coward like Mohammad has the ear of large numbers of people, is rooted solely in prejudices about the Muslim world. There are certainly large numbers of people in the world who are agitated by some of the same things that Mohammed was agitated about (the plight of the Palestinians, brutal dictators propped up by the U.S.), but the vast majority of them know that killing 3000 civilians in New York is not the right way to respond to it.
The foundations of our justice system work for a reason. They don’t just work because America is great. America is great because those foundations work. They establish a basic set of rights that allow people to feel a basic sense of security that their liberty is protected – that we won’t wake up one day being tortured in a secret prison, accused of a crime that we didn’t commit and have no platform for refuting. And as some recent pieces of good reporting have shown, the fact that we don’t make assurances like that to the rest of the world is precisely what feeds the extremism against us. The idea that denying trials for the Khalid Sheik Mohammeds of the world is what will make us safer has it exactly backwards. If our struggle against terrorism is a battle of ideals, then abandoning our ideals is how we lose that struggle.
know matter how you look at it lee, your brain is fried from drugs.
@1
The jews told him to post that…
@2
oh, i thought it was the pot that killed his brain cells.
re 3: I could kill 90% of my brain cells and I’d still be smarter than you.
“When you’ve got money in the bank, you can afford to spend a little on the weekend.”
Jack LaLanne
http://www.americablog.com/200.....erica.html
“Former Bush chief of staff, Andy Card, blasted Obama this week for wearing a dress shirt and tie, but no jacket, in a recent photo in the Oval Office. Card didn’t bother mentioning that his own boss, George W. Bush, went jacketless in the Oval Office as well. So did Carter, and Ford, and Reagan, and Kennedy, and Clinton.
This is what Republicans do. They lie. And the media dutifully repeats their lies until repetition breeds truth.
But more importantly, when will Andy Card be apologizing to Barack Obama, and the American media, for lying?”
<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:-}
@1 And what’s the brain of a troll who can’t spell “No” fried on?
@4 You could kill all of your brain cells and be smarter than him, but I don’t recommend proving it.
@5 Oh, he’s just trying to make something of nothing, because nothing’s all they’ve got.
Seriously good post. Troll comments aside. Thanks.
seriously good post? did you graduate from publik sckools too? jeez
comparison to 911 terrorists – FAIL.
Great, spot on post, Lee. Ignore the trolls.
@9
Troll comments are always an aside. Thanks.
@6
Exactly, I consider it a compliment to criticized by people who misspell the word ‘no’. LOL!
The edit function’s back!
Lee-
Your lengthy pot-smoking career has finally manifest itself in Massive Brain Cell Anhilation!
Lee says:
This is the Big Question.
How can you possibly compare 9-11 with a local crime?
It is obvious there are “home-grown terrorists” thru out America. Ft. Hood MURDERER is just one example but many arrests as of late.
IF this trial Made-for-TV Trail results in a terrorist attack on our soil…Obam-Mao will be drummed outta town. He will not likely finish his term.
Pandering to the terrorist kommunity is Obam-Mao’s idea of protecting American lives??
Look at this Lee-
WAKE-UP!!
Wednesday, November 25, 2009
Black folks still view Obam-Mao as the “messiah” sans intellectual thinkers like Puddy. They are lemmings. Obam-Mao will do NOTHING for the average Black. Folks like Puddy, Star Parker etc have an enormous task to educate Black America because most Blacks mistrust White Conservatives (some for good reason by the way).
But Conservatism will prevail over Obam-Mao’s Marxist wealth-redistributing America.
@15;
Conservatism doesn’t exist anymore. Reagan, Bush Sr and Jr’s pandering to the lunatic fringe killed it. Gingrich’s serial affairs and ethics violations killed it. The Republican party kicked all the conservatives out and replaced them with reactionary lunatics that spread fear and lies because they are morally bankrupt and mentally incapable from telling a moderate from a Maoist.
So, Lee, just how do you account for the fact that KSM was found on foreign soil, but was never legally extradited from the country where we found him?
Doesn’t that automatically give him a cause to have his case thrown out?
I mean, if you’re going to get all legal eagle on us, why not attempt to use a bit of actual legal reasoning instead of regurgitating what you read somewhere in the moonbatosphere.
I understand that you’re writing out your fantasy of finally getting to put the Bush Administration on trial for a year or so (during an election season with a press corps who beg to toss your candidate’s salad on a daily basis and are ready and willing to quote whatever KSM and his lawyers say in court as truth) but do try to use a brain cell or two in the process.
#1 – Typical.
In the vague 2nd grade insult…was there some actual critique of the post? Or has that party that used to have William F. Buckley (before they kicked out all them intellectual ‘Georgetown’ conservatives) finally degenerated into just saying “you’re a poopy head” for their arguments. Welcome to the party of Glen Beck and Palin. Logic, reality, reason? Hell no! We have opinions and feelings…we don’t need your fancy reason and book learn’in.
Moran (sic) Of The Week Award
An Indiana man was arrested after calling 911 to report his tractor-trailer missing with his son inside. The man told the dispatcher his truck was stolen while he was in a strip club. He was charged with child neglect and public intoxication after police found the truck and kid where he said he parked it.
Indiana is a Republican state … I’m just sayin’ …
#15 – I’ll send you a course catalog of the U.W. so you can take a political science 101 course. Did you really think Obama was going to RETAIN a 80% approval rating? He’s still polling higher than Reagan, twice your last President, and that’s during the worst economic times since the great depression.
The point you can’t grasp is that much of that loss of popularity is from liberals and progressives who aren’t happy with Obama because he hasn’t gone liberal ENOUGH. So he is dropping in the polling, but it’s not because he’s too crazy liberal…it’s because he’s not ENOUGH. He ran on issues that like ending the war in Iraq, ending DOMA, ending Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, setting a strategy to get out of Afghanistan, AND…..implementing a universal health care plan.
He’s not loosing popularity because he’s TRYING to push health care and such, that’s what he RAN ON and got his near landslide victory ON. His drop is because he’s not DOING it. If Obama would shift to the left, to the positions he got elected in a near landslide on, and DO those things, he might get back to 60% (a super super high realistic number).
Obama’s 80% ratings were no more real with W.s after 9/11. Obama’s polled SO high because the last Republican President was SO SO SO SO massively horrible and unpopular the country wanted to elected ANYONE to replace the idiot. Like Bush as 9/11, when he had 80% approval, it wasn’t going to last. Again, if you take that PoliSci 101 course, you’ll understand more, but polling from unusual circumstances like that don’t last and eventually polling settles to ‘normal’ levels around 40%-60%, traditionally around 45%.
Cynical, We recently had a terrorist attack on our soil.
FT Hood Massacre was a big time Terrorist Attack. The Libtardo MSM will not call it that.
Now onto Lee and his “hero trial” support of KSM. Lee supports this “show trial”. Would Puddy expect anything less from Lee spouting the American Criminal Liars Union party line? Hell No. The rights of terrorists always preclude the rights of the victims. Remember Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm said there was no War on Terror, it’s an “OCO”, Overseas Contingency Operation.
The trial in NYC will be a waste of multi-millions of dollars. But since the Porkulus Bill was a waste of Billions of $$$$ whats a few million right Lee?
Even Congressional Libtardos admit the terrorists and their lawyers are going to do everything they can to disrupt this “show trial” and make it a three ring circus. This “show trial” allow them to use it as a platform to push their radical ideology. Did you see one of the terrorist lawyers on Bill O’Reilly Monday? He wouldn’t acknowledge 2,986 people died in terrorist attacks.
NY State Democratic Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver said, “Would I prefer it elsewhere? Probably” The NY Governor doesn’t want the trial in NYC. Chucky Swipe Your Social Security Numbers Schumer asked for additional $75 Million for security. Now why would Slimy Schumer ask for that? Cuz he knows something will happen during the trial. Is this another of those Joe Biden America being attacked moments he told us about?
So it follows there are no military trials for these five scum bags since there is no longer a War on Terror. Except…
But everyone can read what FDR did with the eight Germans caught in 1942. FDR is the hero of most HA Libtardos.
Puddy posted this before. Right now HA’s arschloch, ylb arschloch is searching his beloved tctmgr database for the original post. This is why Puddy doesn’t produce links. The fool already has them. Imagine all those disk bits dedicated to HA when he could be looking for employment.
From Puddy’s RSS Feed… Khalid Sheik Mohammed’s own words
– “I decapitated with my blessed right hand the head of the American Jew Daniel Pearl, in the City of Karachi, Pakistan.”
– “I was responsible for the 9/11 operation, from A to Z.”
His inspirational statement – “For the first time in my adult life I am proud of the US because it feels like hope is finally making a comeback.” Of course that was from Michelle Obama in 2008.
“Khalid Sheik Mohammed asked to be brought to New York when he was first arrested. I didn’t think we were in the business of granting the requests of terrorists.” – Ex-NYC Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
Of course when you read that fool Josh Marshall over at TPM; (HA Libtardo Central)… (Remember this fool pronounced “Trigg was Bristol Palin’s Child” – WRONG) he thinks the trial will be tightly controlled etc., and nothing will get into the public view. So you think a gag order will work Josh?
Or how about this dude now, who killed those four BlackWater security guards and they hung their bodies from a bridge? Well they were from BlackWater and we all know how HA Libtardos feel about those guys. Wanna see the links fools? Puddy has them… Kind of reminds me of the 9/11 truthers who patrol the leftist pinhead side of HA Libtardos… you know who you are… Heh heh heh!
Roger Dumb Bunny Farts…
The facts prove otherwise Dumb Bunny…
Independent = liberal
Look how the MSM media in kalifornia defended tookie williams. Look how the liberal entertainment people defended tookie.
@20
I wouldn’t waste my breath, these morons think Obama was born in Kenya and is the second coming of Stalin who is going to take all of their guns and outlaw all religions other than Islam.
I mean many actually think Sarah Palin would be the best opponent for Obama in 2012.
I’m not sure seattlejew would agree with you.
Alki Pastings farts
Ummm Alki, as Bernie Goldberg wrote in A Slobbering Love Affair, the leftist MSM love Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm while they viscerally attacked Reagan and Bush. They libtardo MSM stage their polls to show Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm above 50% while reputable pollers have him at or below 50%. See it here, Pastings… Puddy already posted how they do this. Ask HA’s arschloch ylb arschloch for the post. He’s cough it up for a libtardo such as you Alki!
Chris blows it right out of the water…
Chris go back and read the statements of some of Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm’s czars on guns. Report back to Puddy when you “digest” their commentary.
Now you are finally starting to see how the government school system is failing the kids.
But at least the nea is the largest contributer ($56,349,269) in politics. And of course, it all goes to the party that helps the nea keep power while failing the children. Maybe that money should be spent on kids instead of politicians.
For those that don’t want to see the truth and not click on the link, the top five biggest donors to politics donate to democrats. Doesn’t the liberal media tell us the big money is republican?
@27, @28 — Well I can name 2 trolls off the top of my head who aren’t working at 8:15 a.m. on a Wednesday. They must belong to the idle class, like me. Or maybe they’re goofing off on HA on their employers’ time, or maybe this is their job …
Oba-mao is polling twice as high as the last president?
from the liberal bush bashing rollingstone article “the longest sustained period of public disapproval“-
Approval Rating December 14-16, 2001: 86%
Truth is, comparing obama at 11 months and bush at 11 months bush is almost double oba-mao. The opposite of what your guess was.
It wasn’t until may when bush dropped below 50%
Approval Rating May 2-4, 2004: 49%
oba-mao is already under 50%.
Don’t you hate those facts??
@27
And there you go proving my point. This makes shooting fish in a barrel look hard.
That’s the difference between government employees and self-employed.
government employees can’t imagine doing two things at once, or what the private sector calls multi-tasking.
After all, what is the incentive to work hard as a government employee?
@30
You think maybe there was an event in the Fall of 2001 that might have been responsible for high presidential approval ratings in the following months?
Didn’t we already manage to have a trial and convict the WTC bombing conspirators from 1993?
The answer is Yes.
Somehow NYC managed to survive that trial.
The fact is, at this point bush had higher approval ratings.
Maybe if oba-mao didn’t screw up so bad with his “have to pass stimulus” he might still have approval ratings as high as bush.
So, because of the actions of oba-mao his approval ratings have dropped below 50%.
@32 You should check out some bureaucracies that exist in large companies. As bad or worse than many governments.
Anyway most folks can’t really multi-task, they just do multiple things badly.
Well Fox news just can’t stop the lying. On last night’s Hannity program Dana Perino (Bush’s lying sack of cute press secretary) said the following:
“We did not have a terrorist attack on our country during president Bush’s term”
What kind of shit is she smoking?
The fact is, at this point bush had higher approval ratings.
You do know that those high ratings were due to the 9/11 attacks don’t you? The week before the attacks his job approval was in the 50’s.
It’s too bad that sniveling little piece of shit survived his gunshot wounds.
re 15 — “Lee-
Your lengthy pot-smoking career has finally manifest itself in Massive Brain Cell Anhilation!”
Is this another of Bill Frist’s diagnoses. Hey, what happened to all of my cats!!!!
re 39: “It’s too bad that sniveling little piece of shit survived his gunshot wounds.”
I thought you liked Reagan.
@35
The stimulus package is hardly the only reason for the drop in Obama’s approval ratings. The other thing to consider is what would have happened if the stimulus hadn’t been passed. Sure the right claims it did nothing but waste money, but I doubt people who had their unemployment benefits extended would agree with you. It is entirely possible without the stimulus the current economic situation would be much more dire.
It is certainly the case that if AIG, Citicorp, Bank of America, Fanny and Freddy, GM, and Chrysler had been “allowed to fail” the entire world financial system would have collapsed. The trust, credit, and liquidity that powers the financial system would have collapsed as well. This would have lead to a liquidity trap, deflation, and worldwide depression.
B.O. Plenty @41:
Reagan was a sniveling big piece of shit.
PS. Kudos for the Dick Tracy reference.
Fuck you asshole. Typical right winger. Does anything to deflect from his bullshit.
Back up your bullshit. Oh! You can’t. The shit is all made up!
Why asshole? Stupes just said he’s a terraist. Don’t you want to see him waterboarded?
Oh Obama is in charge. They’ll hand him over to the FBI which has no problem getting people to talk without abusing them.
http://www1.voanews.com/englis.....88732.html
15 Cyn
Yeah, sure, just like when President Cawford Vacation’s administration concentrated on anti-missile defense and ignored Al Qaeda for nearly a year prior to the 9/11 attacks, and everyone blamed him and thrwew him out of office, right?
A terrorist attack is the last thing you guys want, believe me.
From the asshole who bragged bragged bragged over how he was creating with tctmgr his own database for chronological moronic postings…
The only made up bullshit is the man-made swill you drink from Daily Kooks. Go ahead Pavlov sez post a link fool!
You are the dumbest brick around ylb arschloch. The absolute dumbest brick. And when you have rujax the dumb cinder block as competition that sez much about your innate stupidity.
17 phil
Me, I am not a lawyer and I have done no research on this. But what’s your point? Is it that if we are restricted to following laws, we cannot prosecute criminals? Do you see the logical and ethical problems with that?
Chris the blatherer farts…
Facts do make shooting fish in a barrel easy fool. Cass Sunstein is calling for you moron!
Awwww poor Chris@33,
Marvin explodes Alki’s Pastings and Chris loses it again. The facts cause leftist pinheads like Chris to lose his breakfast, lunch and dinner!
Golly Chris, your “friend” ylb arschloch and others posted negative commentary on TARP. Even when a Libtardo posted the success of the TARP package, ylb arschloch screamed it’s failure? You don’t remember this? Don’t you remember when Puddy placed the comments of John Effin Kerry of Sept 28, 2008 when he said Senator Obama supported the TARP package how many HA leftist Libtardos went nuts. You can easily Google it or as Puddy always suggests ask HA’s arschloch ylb arschloch for the links. He has gigabytes dedicated to HA posts. If you ask him nicely he’ll give them to you since you are a libtardo like him.
Puddy wonders why no HA Libtardo will ask ylb arschloch for the links. Must be HA Libtardos know ylb arschloch is the dumbest leftist brick on HA!
Don@38,
That’s not what Alki Pastings was bragging about. His/her attack wasn’t well thought out; just some libtardo blaterings to make a worthless idiotic moronic point!
EPIC FAIL too!
“Golly Chris, your “friend” ylb arschloch and others posted negative commentary on TARP.”
Golly gee whiz, Puddy, not everybody marches lockstep like you freaks. That’s your thing, not ours. And speaking of such matters, I assume you passed your party’s new loyalty test with a sparkling 100% score.
Of course, one thing we do agree on is that you guys all fuck goats.
The difference being, I don’t have a choice about paying taxes to pay bad government employees.
When I get treated bad by a private business, I never go back.
I think you guys could have put more questions on your party loyalty test. I didn’t see anything about creationism, the flat earth, Christian Nation, birth certificates, Kenya, Sainthood for Ronnie – oh wait, that last one may have at least been inferred. But really, guys, just a few more loyalty test questions and you’d do so much better separating the wheat from the chaff.
Yes I know Don.
The way bush handled 9/11 increased his ratings.
The way oba-mao handled the economy crisis dropped his ratings.
Yeah, Bush didn’t do so bad. It only cost us a trillion or two and nearly five thousand dead Americans, but he damn well saw to it that we would never be invaded by that bitch Saddam’s model airplanes.
Let’s not forget that President Bush kept us safe.
Perino: “We did not have a terrorist attack on our country during President Bush’s term. I hope they’re not looking at this politically. I do think that we owe it to the American people to call it what it is.”
Nice appointment there, President Obama. Oh, I get it, Ari Fleischer has a new gig and wasn’t available.
The real issue here is that the “war on terror” isn’t. It’s a semantic construct promulgated after 9/11 primarily by the Project for a New American Clusterfuck.
As has been pointed out repeatedly by people like Dick Clarke who actually know what the hell they’re doing, the fight against terrorists is basically police work. This is entirely different from sending hundreds of thousands of brave young men and women someplace to slaughter one another because a couple of dipshit heads of state (like George Dumbfuck Bush and Saddam Head-Up-His-Ass Hussein) don’t like each other. That gets a lot of money and headlines…the quiet gumshoe detective work to actually round up thugs like bin Laden and nuts like Monfort is another thing altogether.
Easy answer…
The oba-mao administration said…
I did not use the word “terrorism,” I referred to “man-caused” disasters
According to the person oba-mao appointed to be head of homeland security, it was a “man-caused” disaster.
Fox news was following the lead of the oba-mao administration and didn’t use that terrible terrorism word.
Think back a couple weeks about the fort hood shooting, did you hear anyone calling it terrorism? You know bush would have, especially with that allahu akbar stuff before he started killing american troops in the name of his religion.
CHANGE
I believe you’ll begin to see Pres. Obama’s poll numbers begin to rise steadily next year.
Here are the reasons in no particular order:
1) Jobless claims are still high, but going in the right direction.
2) The economy is beginning to recover from the worst Republican created financial disaster since the time they created the Great Depression.
3) Health care will get passed. And, despite the tea baggers claims we won’t become a socialist nation. Like Reagan predicted we would in 1961 when he railed against Medicare that the Republicans are now defending from “cuts in spending” to pay for health care reform.
4) The war in Iraq will start winding down and will come to an end on the Surrender Date Bush authorized.
5) After very thoughtful consideration, we’re finally going implement a military strategy to finish the job in Afghanistan Bush under resourced for 8 years and let bin Laden escape.
6) 2/3 of the Stimulus package will kick in in 2010 creating millions of new jobs.
7) After health care is signed in to law Obama will get rid of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.
Any one see where the UK is going to have hearings into how they got involved in the Iraq war?
They won’t lead to any criminal or civil prosecutions, but, Tony Blair said he’ll testify truthfully now that he has legal cover.
I believe it will come out that Bush committed to war in Iraq a full year before the invasion took place.
This may embolden the Democrats in congress to investigate Bush admin. for war crimes.
Can anybody name the current heavyweight boxing champ off the top of their head?
@62 What a potted plant.
1) Jobless claims are still high, but going in the right direction.
People respond to the unemployment rate, and that is moving higher
3) Health care will get passed.
The legislation still must pass a number of hurdles. Currently, skeptics from both the right and left are deeply critical of the holes in the proposed “reform.”
5) After very thoughtful consideration, we’re finally going implement a military strategy to finish the job in Afghanistan Bush under resourced for 8 years and let bin Laden escape.
Right. Which is why polls show a nose dive in support from independents and Dems in particular for sending more troops. As troops are moved in and casualties go up, support will erode even more.
6) 2/3 of the Stimulus package will kick in in 2010 creating millions of new jobs.
Do you have a source for this? And if this is the case why are Democratic lawmakers talking about a second stimulus package?
You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
Steve,
Stupid Solution causing some mental backups? Did you forget the progressive dummocraptic litmus test?
Puddy will give you a few minutes to think about it!!!!!
Paul@65,
GBS a potted plant? That’s funny. I know the guy. Piss poor politics aside, he isn’t a potted plant. Maybe he’s face planted a few though.
@57
OK Genius, your turn. What should have Obama done to handle the economic crisis?
i was a bit confused by your intro but your conclusion is right on:
The idea that denying trials for the Khalid Sheik Mohammeds of the world is what will make us safer has it exactly backwards.
That was a rather tea-bagger-ish thing to say!
re 65: No. I think he’s right about the jobless rate. It’s going down if you use applications for unemployment as a bellweather.
I don’t have time to find the source, but I’m sure that I read that.
Poll: Obama faces white flight
“Just 39 percent of white Americans now approve of President Obama’s job performance, a steep drop-off of support since he was inaugurated in January, according to the latest Gallup Poll.”
http://www.politico.com/politi.....a2739.html
re 68: More tax cuts for the rich. That cures everything — including hemmhorroids (hemmeroids, hemmerhoids???)
Fuck it!!! It cures tha red ass.
re 71: …and we all know how loyal white people are.
And you are the miserable losing right wing fool here. Your ideology is bankrupt and rejected. You make shit up and make lame excuses when people call you on your bullshit.
I’m the last person who’ll do any favors for you asshole.
@70
That’s not a reliable marker. Business have to start hiring, and that hasn’t started. In addition, you have a large number of under employed or who have stopped looking altogether who will keep pressure on the numbers in the months ahead. Finally, it’s far from clear the economy is out of the woods.
Pauls @ 65:
“Potted plant” indeed. I’ve been called so many worse things, that I actually just laughed. Hell, you’re probably right.
1) People respond to the unemployment rate, and that is moving higher
True. But, as a leading indicator the “initial jobless claims” show that the rate in which people are being laid off is slowing.
If it were growing at 700,000+ per month like it was on Bush’s watch do you think that:
A) the unemployment rate would move down, or
B) the unemployment rate would move up?
3)The legislation still must pass a number of hurdles. Currently, skeptics from both the right and left are deeply critical of the holes in the proposed “reform.”
Again, your statement is true in that there are many skeptics on both sides of the isle. However, that does NOT mean the legislation won’t get to the president’s desk.
When that happens, even if it’s very marginal reform, is very important. Remer, the mighty oak tree doesn’t fall in one chop, but many chops.
Funny thing here, is the senior citizen tea baggers were saying “KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY MEDICARE” without realizing that it was the Republicans in the early 60’s who were opposing it. Now that they have it it’s so fucking great they don’t’ want anyone touching it!!
Same with health care reform. Liberals WILL win the day.
)5 Right. Which is why polls show a nose dive in support from independents and Dems in particular for sending more troops. As troops are moved in and casualties go up, support will erode even more.
I know Republicans lick their fingers and check which way the winds of the polls are blowing, but not President Obama.
Check back next Wednesday, Paul, see how the polls look then. One thing is for certain, this president picked a great VP, unlike McShame. Biden has passed on the WISDOM of history to Obama and he’ll engage our enemy with a plan for victory AND an exit strategy.
That WILL get the support of Americans. As war efforts should. Although, Bush and Cheney made an art of politicizing the wars and deaths of our soldiers. Do you know that Bush never paid his respects to our fallen heroes returning to Dover AFB?
Too much work I guess for the most vacationed president in the history of the Republic.
6) Do you have a source for this? And if this is the case why are Democratic lawmakers talking about a second stimulus package?
Yep. here it is. roll your mouse over each state you’ll see how much as been “awarded” and how much has actually been “RECEIVED.”
Do the math yourself, or get an adult to help you, and you’ll realize that the majority of the money allocated to each state is YET TO COME. Which means when that money starts hitting, the jobs will start happening.
JUST IN TIME FOR THE 2010 elections.
See, Paul, Americans have very short memories. If we fixed the unemployment rate now, the Republicans would just create another “boogie man” phobia later. This way, by mid summer next year, Americans will be going back to work, Liberal politicians will have a good talk to use on the campaign trail and your side will be going down in flames thanks to tea party fanatics like Sarah “Bailin'” Palin.
Didn’t you fools learn anything from NY-23?
Whether or not you think I know what I’m talking about, more Democrats are getting elected to national office in 2010 than Republicans. Take that to the bank.
Link for post @ 76:
http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/home.aspx
Hey, Puddy.
Yeah FACE PLANTED is more like it!!
Although, I must admit, I like potted plant. Maybe because it’s so much like pot plant.
You know us Liberals, dope smokin’, tree-huggin’, dirt worshipin’, granola eatin’, peaceniks who are always correct.
Happy Thanksgiving.
This year, I’m most thankful that John McCain picked Sarah “failin'” Palin as his VP and drove away all the independent voters.
If he’d picked Crist or Pawlenty the Independent Maverick / War Hero would’ve won hands down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_parte_Quirin
Ex parte Quirin, 317 U.S. 1 (1942), is a Supreme Court of the United States case that upheld the jurisdiction of a United States military tribunal over the trial of several Operation Pastorius German saboteurs in the United States. Quirin has been cited as a precedent for the trial by military commission of any unlawful combatant against the United States.
It was argued July 29 and July 30, 1942 and decided July 31, 1942 with an extended opinion filed October 29, 1942.
This decision states:
“ …the law of war draws a distinction between the armed forces and the peaceful populations of belligerent nations and also between those who are lawful and unlawful combatants. Lawful combatants are subject to capture and detention as prisoners of war by opposing military forces. Unlawful combatants are likewise subject to capture and detention, but in addition they are subject to trial and punishment by military tribunals for acts which render their belligerency unlawful. The spy who secretly and without uniform passes the military lines of a belligerent in time of war, seeking to gather military information and communicate it to the enemy, or an enemy combatant who without uniform comes secretly through the lines for the purpose of waging war by destruction of life or property, are familiar examples of belligerents who are generally deemed not to be entitled to the status of prisoners of war, but to be offenders against the law of war subject to trial and punishment by military tribunals.”
@78
And yet strangely enough much of the “base” think she’s the GOP’s best candidate for 2012.
I have to laugh. As a patriotic American I do hope someone both sane and moderately competent gets the GOP nomination in 2012. Not because I’d vote for them or because I want Obama to have a “real race” on his hands, but because there is always the off chance the challenger could win.
Chris @ 80:
I agree with you on the “off chance” the challenger wins.
Unless there is a really drastic change of events the Republicans know their 2012 challenger to Obama is a throw-away candidate that won’t / doesn’t have a political future.
That’s why Gov. Quitter would be a great choice for the GOP in 2012.
@76 Check back next Wednesday, Paul, see how the polls look then.
Absolutely inane thinking. People will respond to the cost and casualty figures over months, not a speech. People are tired of these wars and the poll data has reflected this month after month as Democrats and independents have pulled away. This trend will only worsen.
You’re out to lunch.
@ 82:
Really???
What the American People have grown weary of are wars without direction or leadership.
I guarantee that after President Obama’s speech there will be a positive move up in his approval ratings in how he’s “handling the war.”
And, if Obama’s war plans either captures or kills bin Laden — Good night GOP.
If, Obama dismantles al Qeada, gets Afghanistan to police itself and gets the troops home do you really believe the base of the Democrat Party, moderates and independents will abandon him?
Puhhhh-lease.
I may be out to lunch, but you’re out of your mind.
Pay attention. Then, chime in.
Boy, YLB Arschloch is sure in an angry fit of feminine rage today. Whats the matter Arschloch, did your wife threaten to hold back Thanksgiving dinner for you until you stop banging the drums all day and get a job? Or perhaps it was “career” day at your childrens school and they were forced to say: “My daddy stays at home all day on his fat ass posting on a website with a bad name….he doesn’t work, Mommy does.”
Good grief! You have our permission to take a break from here and check out the employment ads. Please do, and good luck!
I’m voting present.
@85 Marvin Stupes is an intellectual crime.
@57 The one thing in his whole miserable life that Bush did right was swallow hard and bail out the financial system just before leaving office. Except he didn’t ask Congress for enough money to do the job, so Obama went back and asked for the rest. These two guys saved the world, the difference between them being that Obama, unlike Bush, didn’t create the problem. Of course it flies over Marvin Stupes’ little pointy head that economists are unanimous about had to be done — and what would happen if it wasn’t. Or maybe Repukes do understand, but want to destroy the world. That Rapture thing, you know.
@65 “People respond to the unemployment rate, and that is moving higher”
Yeah, they sure do, Bush ended 8 years in office with fewer jobs than he started with, and look what happened to his party. The Republican Mess won’t be cured overnight, this will take a while. If voters get impatient, where will they go, back to the GOP? I don’t think so.
84 – Just giving a worthless asshole his due fiend – contempt. Yawwwwnnn.. You’re so boring like the rest of your miserable tribe.
@83 What the American People have grown weary of are wars without direction or leadership.
—–
No. Americans, or at least most Democrats and independents, have grown tired of endless wars, period. They have grown weary of the spending, the body bags, and carrying the lion share of everything. A speech will not change that – Obama has made plenty of great speeches that have pushed his numbers up temporarily, so that’s what that’s worth.
Lots of ifs in your thinking. We’ll track developments and return to your claims above – and those poll numbers – in the months ahead.
At least when I vote present I’m not being paid by the money of taxpayers expecting me to do something to help them.
Change
ylb has said one of his kids might grow up to be a republican, which means he’s already reading. So when he’s in class he doesn’t say “bad name,” he says horses Ass. It isn’t long until ylb is known as the guy into animal porn.
Hhmm, I wonder if that’s why he can’t get a job?
@76 Do the math yourself, or get an adult to help you, and you’ll realize that the majority of the money allocated to each state is YET TO COME. Which means when that money starts hitting, the jobs will start happening.
——–
And this is simplistic analysis. If you can produce an economist that makes this optimistic argument, please do so. Paul Krugman, hardly a wingnut, has been deeply critical of the stimulus and its prospects:
“Yes, the economy grew fairly fast in the third quarter — but not fast enough to make significant progress on jobs. And there’s little reason to expect things to look better going forward. The stimulus has already had its maximum effect on growth. Even Timothy Geithner, the Treasury secretary, admits that banks remain reluctant to lend. Many economists predict that the economy’s growth, such as it is, will fade out over the course of next year.”
So, again, can you produce an economist who shares your optimism?
Trolls are stupid, we know that. But do they have to continually prove how dumb they are? Here is but a small sample of typical troll ignorance combined with a pathetic arrogance:
woman of falsehood says:
This is not a mispelling or typo – it is pure stupidity to use Know instead of No. Something that should have been learned in the third grade – but was not.
Mr. Klynical says:
Let’s count the poor grammer and other mistakes in this one short missive accusing Lee of losing brain cells:
manifested instead of manifest (got the tense wrong – third grade level mistake).
Anhilation – I am assuming Klynical meant annihilation.
People who can’t spell and can’t even check their spelling and also cannot use proper tenses (things they should have learned in third grade) should not be calling other people stupid.
However, this is typical troll activity. They criticize others (liberals) but fail to come up with any cogent arguments of their own and also fail the basic literacy test of an intelligent person.
@94 Throw in some third-person faux ebonics and you got some batshit crazy shit going on.
@85 Marvin votes “present”?????
Wow, as usual Marvin has no answer. Why don’t you just say you have no d-mn clue Marvin?
When asked a straightforward question – Marvin shows his intellectual chops once again….none, nada, zero intelligence or thought. Nothing useful to contribute, just the usual mindless negative criticism. Marivin is one of the “nattering nabobs of negativism” to paraphrase a certain republican VP and criminal.
What would Marvin propose to do about the worst recession since the great depression (caused by republican policies and GWB)?
Marvin has no answer. In other words, Marvin would do nothing and things would be even worse.
And by the way, Krugman’s point was that the stimulus was too small.
However, while the economy is still fairly precarious – without the stimulus it would have been MUCH MUCH worse.
Lee: Very clever juxtapostion of the excuses made by the Gitmo torture defenders versus the expectations of the criminal justice system for that looney cop killer in Seattle.
Is that how you felt when oba-mao voted “present?”
If not, why the double standard. Considering how you write about me, why are you holding me to a higher standard than you held oba-mao?
@98: hahaha Is that the best you have – you complete moron?
Obama explained why he voted present – he had actual reasons for it.
You, on the other hand, have not opinions worth putting down. You are completely worthless and ignorant. All you can do is criticize.
Once again, you have been challenged and FAILED. How does it feel to be a useless piece of crap?
waiting on Stamns economic views and health care plan……crickets are chirping, bark is peeling
@94 correctnotbright proclaims:
People who can’t spell and can’t even check their spelling and also cannot use proper tenses (things they should have learned in third grade) should not be calling other people stupid.
@99 correctnotbright writes:
You, on the other hand, have not opinions worth putting down.
Thanks, correctnotbright!
So do I. I am evaluating all positions and ramifications. Plans for something as important as the economy is not something to be rushed through, as evidenced by oba-mao rushing the stimulus through on the premise that if he didn’t unemployment would reach 10%.
What do you want me to opine on?
Only in your mind would me not having a vialble plan that even oba-mao can’t come up with is a failure.
Why did you vote for oba-mao if you expect me to come up with a plan?
Got a link for your plans?
Besides, no matter what I write you won’t like it and dismiss everything I write, so why the fuck would I waste time treating you like you actually deserved any respect from me?
Should I ask for a link to your plans or are you like me and don’t have any?
@83 I guarantee that after President Obama’s speech there will be a positive move up in his approval ratings in how he’s “handling the war.”
Yea, right, Obama’s “handling of the war” is a no brainer:
Obama vs. own party on troop increase
“Top Democrats have made it clear to Obama that he will not receive a friendly reception should he announce what is considered the leading option: sending 30,000 more U.S. troops to Afghanistan.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....id=topnews
Thanks for the “guarantee.”
Meanwhile, while we pump in 30,000 or more in, we have to beg allies to send in a token 5000:
“The United States is scrambling to coax NATO allies to send 10,000 additional troops to Afghanistan as part of President Obama’s strategy for the region. Those countries appear willing to provide fewer than half that number, American and allied officials said Wednesday.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11.....ps.html?hp
Currently there are nearly 68,000 American troops in Afghanistan, and about 36,000 troops from 29 NATO allies. This is 221 American soldiers per 1,000,000 population, and about 57 non-American NATO soldiers per 1,000,000 population. If we bump our numbers up by 30K and our allies bump theirs up by 5K – a conservative mixture – the new numbers will be 319 American soldiers per 1,000,000 population and 65 non-American NATO soldiers per 1,000,000 population. That is, our contribution rate will be nearly 6 times that of our allies.
And we will have the pleasure of paying for this with OUR blood and treasure.
@102, @103 — You’re a pacifist. I’m not. We were attacked from Afghanistan and have to be there so the place isn’t a sanctuary for terrorists. If we leave, we’ll have to return, and I don’t like making our soldiers pay for the same real estate twice.
Over the next couple weeks you’re going to see every Republican in America turn into an Appeasement Monkey because they’d rather criticize Obama than love their country.
@100 xandu
– gee, a tough one. I mistyped no instead of not (a typo) – is that all you have?
I was criticizing the idiots who did not understand the difference beween know and no.
And what substanitive things do you have to say……thought so, nothing.
@104
Hardly. Pelosi, Levin, Kerry and Feingold among many others are expressing deep reservations, and they are not pacifist. 57% of Democrats want to begin bring troops home according to Gallup – the great majority are not pacifist. That’s a fundamental misread. The public sentiment will only sour more in the months ahead.
@101: A whole lot of blather from Stamn…but here is the short Stamn:
Stamn has no plan and is full of BS. He criticizes the existing plans but has no alternative.
In other words, he is completely destructive and has nothing constructive to say.
Hey idiot Stamn – here is my health care plan: single payer like most of the rest of the world.
If not, the House plan works fine as a starter.
The current system that you support (since you have no plan) stinks and is untenable. It is the most expensive in the world (close to twice what the next country pays) and we get health care on par with Slovenia.
We pay more for drugs than any country in the world. We don’t cover 46 million americans or more. We don’t cover anyone with a pre-exsiting condition.
That is the plan you support since you have no other plan.
And your argument is……nothing but blather as usual. Third grade level crap is all you have.
Sorry Steve – the Taliban supported and encouraged al qaida. We have a mess there because Bush failed to support the Afghans and finish the job. We need to finish the job…even though it is much worse now than it was 6 years ago.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
A typo is- Can I ge4t a drink.
The letter “t” is not close to “n” or “o.”
And look what you wrote-
… and can’t even check their spelling and … should not be calling other people stupid.
Did YOU check your spelling?
Again tonight you have proven yourself to be a hypocrite.
They will be just like 100% of the Dummocrapts then Roger Dumb Bunny. You scream all the time Dumb Bunny that Republicans should be like Dummocrapts so why are you getting upset now?
Puddy wonders why correctnotright has no comments on the climate change fiasco.
“The Climate Research Unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia in Britain is one of four places in the world where global temperature data sets are compiled. Someone (apparently an insider) hacked into the CRU’s computer system, and on Friday posted online 1,079 emails and 72 documents. Dr. Phil Jones, the director of the CRU, has said the emails appear to be genuine.”
Of course correctnotright will not answer instead of voting present.
Happy Thanksgiving Goldy’s NorthWest Division of Lunatic Libtardo Leftist Moonbats.
Yawwwwnnn.. You are the dumbest brick, more boring because you live here 18 hours a day vs. finding work. How long will that $500 a week unemployment last fool? Most come here to see your latest in idiotic monomaniacal chronological thought and you seldom fail! Why do you think no one asks you to produce previous links? They would have to stoop to your level and no one wants to be associated with the dumbest brick on HA Libtardos.
GBS…
You were doing so well until the last four words of that sentence.
During the bush administration the left continuously pointed out the terrorists, (or man-made disasters as they are known under the oba-mao administration) were from saudi aribia.
Why does oba-mao want to continue the failed policies of bush?
correctnotright,
Afghanistan plan. Easy. Use Massive Ordnance Air Blast Bomb (MOABs) to close known tunnel openings. Use imaging sonar to look at the tunnel structures. When they exit from the other side have predators waiting with heat seeking missiles. Upon predator missile explosion identify coordinates. Use MOABs to close those tunnel openings. MOABs suck out the air out of the tunnels. Continue to do this and you’ll trap the leadership inside. Then take apart the Taliban clusters who now are separated from the leadership. Do this a few times and the Taliban will fall apart, plain and simple.
Marvin, made made disasters in an overseas contingency operation.
Unlike the smart liberals that feared bush was going to overturn roe vs wade.
Unlike the smart liberals that thought bush stole the election, not once, but twice. And used those “facts” to extrapolate that bush was going to declare martial law and stay in office past his term.
Unlike the smart liberals that know bush planned 9/11.
Marvin,
Arguing facts and getting positive acknowledgment with peeps like Chris Stefan is like ylb arschloch finding intelligence AND A JOB. Ain’t gonna happen. You know there are 9/11 Truthers here on HA Libtardos. Search Google for HA Libtardos with:
“bush knew about 9/11 attacks site:horsesass.org”
“bush knew about 9-11 attacks site:horsesass.org”
“bush knew about 9 11 attacks site:horsesass.org”
” 9/11 Truth site:horsesass.org”
” 9/11 Truthers site:horsesass.org”
Of course fools like Chris Stefan will claim ignorance to past actions by other HA Libtardos.
Of course the HA Libtaros will trot out Richard Clarke when Roger Cressey was the Director and he said other things which mysteriously contradicted some of Clarke’s claims. Puddy placed this on HA Libtardos long ago. ylb arschloch has the PuddyMissives butt he’ll claim he don’t do the bidding of a right-wing “idiot”. Funny thing no one asks him anything so he’s the real idiot.
That’s a great start.
Marvin,
Ask headless if he is a 9/11 Truther. Google it. Craft the search many ways and watch the posts appear. Ask the HA arschloch for additional headless posts. Watch your monitor for the latest in comedy responses from ylb arschloch.
Damn, that’s sure a lot of hits.
It appears that many many people on this blog are truthers.
How cute.
And they have the audacity to laugh at birthers. Priceless.
Honestly considering that we tortured KSM and denied him his Constitutional rights, he should be immediately released and sent back to wherever we got him from. In addition, Bush/Cheney/Rove should be tried/hung for war crimes/torture and KSM should be given $10 million as compensation AS Well as an apology from the American people for torturing him and denying him HIS Constitutional rights.