Jonathan Singer has an interesting piece on MyDD, presenting a model for Democrats taking back the House of Representatives in 2006. And what is that model? The overwhelming Republican sweep in WA state back in 1994.
Going into the 1994 midterm elections, Washington state Democrats appeared poised to continue their dominance. In both 1988 and 1992, the Evergreen state had thrown its electoral votes behind the Democratic candidate, and the state had not elected a Republican Governor since 1980. Looking more closely at the 1992 election, the Democrats won eight of the state’s nine House seats, winning the overall House vote by a 56 percent to 41 percent margin, and House Speaker Tom Foley, a Spokane Democrat, was at the peak of his power.
But come November 6, 1994, the Democrats’ fortunes reversed. Republicans won the statewide House vote by a 51 percent to 49 percent margin, defeating the Democrats in seven of the state’s nine districts for a net pick up of six seats, and GOP Senator Slade Gorton was handily reelected with 56 percent of the vote. What happened on election day, and the months leading up to it, should serve as a stark warning to Republicans who believe they are set maintain control of the House in 2006 and should further provide lessons to Democrat hoping to win back the lower chamber.
Singer notes that the GOP picked up seats in four Democratic-leaning districts in WA in 1994, and 16 Democratic-leaning districts nationally. He concludes that Democrats should not shy away from targeting Republican-leaning districts in 2006, particularly in Ohio, which somewhat mirrors WA in 1994.
Personally, I remain hopeful that Democrats will target the three Republican-leaning districts in WA state. Everybody knows that freshman incumbent Rep. Dave Reichert is vulnerable; the 8th District continues to lean Democratic in statewide and Presidential races, and should be within reach of a strong challenger (and I’m not yet convinced that either of the declared candidates, Darcy Burner and Randy Gordon, are up to the task.) But given the right circumstances, the right challenger — and enough money — Democrats could have a shot in Eastern WA too.
Representatives Cathy McMorris and Doc Hastings have voted with the Republican leadership 98% of the time — often against the interests of their Eastern WA constituents — and each has their unique vulnerabilities. While McMorris has done little to distinguish herself during her freshman year, Hastings is finally making a name for himself as the do-nothing chair of the House Ethics Committee at time his own party appears to be collapsing under the weight of its own corruption.
Both deserve strong challengers who can make the 2006 election a referendum on George Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Tom Delay, Bill Frist and the rest of the Republican leadership. If Eastern WA voters are in the mood to throw the bums out next November, Democrats need to be prepared to offer them a viable alternative. There’s a chance McMorris may draw a strong challenger in Peter Goldmark, but Hastings seat has thus far drawn little interest from Democrats.
As Singer points out, the lesson both parties should learn from WA in 1994, is that Republican domination is not safe in any part of the country right now. Democrats have a shot at retaking the House… but only if we mount strong challenges in Republican leaning districts.
Just one small problem moonbats.
The republicans had an agenda for change!
No one that I have heard has a clue what plan the dems have for the nation except to criticize anything and everything that the republicans do.
Truth is, you can’t tell the american people what you really want to do because it would marginalize you even further.
Anyone want to bet me that 2006 will be a disappointment to dems?
“Anyone want to bet me that 2006 will be a disappointment to dems?”
You tossers don’t pay up when you lose bets, so no thanks.
Murka is NOT a liberal country. With the exception of a few cesspools like Seattle and San Francisco, most of the country is bright red. Dems have zero chance of taking over any branch of gummint at fed level. None…
@1
You guys changed America, all right.
1. Changed it from a peace-loving country to one that starts wars and invades other people’s homelands on flimsy pretexts.
2. Changed it from a Geneva Convention signatory to a leading practitioner of torture.
3. Changed it from a balanced budget to wildly fiscally irresponsible.
4. Changed it from the politics of reasoned debate to hate rhetoric and confrontational politics.
5. Changed it from a thriving capitalist economy to a cesspool of corruption.
@3
Do you know something about the voting machines we don’t, Mark?
If more administration and congressional indictments are in the offing that alone could trigger major housecleaning. I hope the D’s field the best candidate possible everywhere. Even in a district like the 4th if Doc’s somewhat busy, at the least, the apple grower’s money stays in the district rather than come over the mountains. And unless things turn fast, the McCains of the world will be really busy come whirlwind time. As things stand now, there is no way one could bring Bush or Cheney into any swing district.
Roger Rabbit conservatively estimates that Repubs will lose 100 seats in Congress next year. See, RR can be conservative, too.
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
Why is Stefan plotting to screw the contributors to his “legal action fund?” Has the man no shame?
MTR @ 3 You are right that the chances of the Democrats taking the judiciary and the executive branch are pretty slim come 2006.
And it will be pretty tough for them to sweep into power in either the House or the Senate either for that matter. What is most likely is a 2 seat pickup in the Senate with a 5-10 seat pickup in the House.
However, if the political winds are blowing in the Democrats direction come next November, then a whole lot more seats come into strong play and there is not much difference between picking up 3 Senate seats and 7 if there is even a 2% flip in the electorate.
We will see I suppose….
As for the mood and opinions of the country – do you really think most Americans support playing political games with brain dead women? Do you think they support going to war and occupying foreign countries when we don’t have to?
I could go on, but the point is that Republicans have gotten this far in the majority of the country by hiding their views and pretending to be more moderate then they are while demonizing the Democrats. It has been effective, but it hardly makes the radical conservative agenda mainstream.
P.S. – How did that privatizing Social Security thing go for you all anyway?
7
Has anyone else noticed Bush only speaks at military bases? Wonder why? Possible reasons include:
1. It’s the only place he feels safe.
2. It’s the only audience that can be court-martialed for not applauding.
3. The military keeps the press out, so he won’t have to answer any embarrassing questions.
Goldy,
You are correct when you say the Dems need to field strong candidates. jaybo @1 makes the valid point that messages need to be about what they stand for, not what they stand against. Yet, we continue to get pablum from Pelosi & Co.
Hell, make a stand, come up with a plan and make D’s earn a spot at the government table. If they fail to do so, the travails of the R’s right now won’t mean a thing to voters in 2006.
The D’s need to buy a plane for Murtha for the rural red districts. That guy connects. He’s be great in the 5th.
Oh, I forgot to add above…. Goldy is absolutely right that the priority right now needs to be in finding good canidates to challenge these seats.
In a normal year, we will usually lose in Spokane and Yakima. But this is not shaping up to be a normal year. Lets take them down….
3, After this years govs race, do you think of Virginia a liberal cesspool also? And not just the northern section of the state!
re 1: Jaybo: Are moonbats “evildoers” and if so, specifically, how? What are the latest numbers on the AXIS OF EVIL? Are we winning or haven’t you bought that comic book yet?
re 3: America is not a country of crooks either and will not suffer fools gladly. I remember seeing one tongue in cheek headline stating: “Bush Says it’s OK to Disagree with Him!”
Hah!!!! You x-treme righties crack me up. Remember Katrina? Remember befuddled and incompetent Bush? It’s all on tape, baby! And it’s not going away!
Marks @11 Do you want to take a guess how long before the 1994 election the Republicans came out with their fabled ‘Contract with America’?
6 weeks. The game plan in the 1994 election was generally to nationalize the elections (i.e. run against Clinton and the Democratic Congress on ethical grounds), run good viable candidates, and then after you have brought down the other party you come forward with your own ideas (i.e. CwA) to seal the deal.
The Democratic Party would be making a big gamble right now if they came out with something like the CwA this far from the election.
1. People are not paying attention so it would have limited positive effect.
2. The Republicans are not good at running positive campaigns and the Democrats would just be providing a foil for the Republicans to go into attack mode on.
Look what was happened over the past year when the national Republican Party supposedly had a mandate and controlled all branches of government. You would think they would be successful implementing their own ideas.
How did privatizing Social Security go? How about playing politics with Terri Schivo? How often around here to you see Republicans offering up good ideas?
How often do you see them coming up with conspiracy theories and attacking anyone to the left of Barry Goldwater as traitors?
I’ve got a question for you moonbats. What do you think of Joe Lieberman? There are few dems I would even consider voting for, but I could see me filling an oval for him if the R candidate was a Dole type weak.
He seems to me to be a reasonable person who holds reasonable views on the important issues. He’s not a screaming kook like JFK or The Smartest Woman In The World. Could you moonbats support him, or do you think he’s a DINO who should be held in the same contempt that guys like me hold RINOs?
Dems don’t stand a chance in 06 because you don’t have someone like Newt with a vision and a strategy. Do you think you have a Newt? Who? JFK??? TSWITW? Ted The Swimmer? Sheets Byrd? I don’t think so…
The R’s big closer last year was with the so called security moms, that block of support is most certainly long gone. Then they are going to have to hide Captain Clueless and Little Mary Sunshine with only McCain left to parachute into LOTS of districts.
No Contract with America…please
19.
What about Murtha in say Spokane?
18,
re your contempt for the RINO’s, they might actually be in a pretty good position if all hell breaks loose with congressional indictments. Seems they may have done a better job of keeping fingers out of the cookie jar!
Chooch @ 21 – So if you don’t like “contract” how will you articulate some kind of vision that’s marketable and easy to understand? Or will that not happen because dems have no vision? Fear and hate not gonna work. Don’t you get it yet?
Do the math fringies – add how many safe seats the dims have vs GOP, figure how many dim seats up for grabs vs GOP, figure how many dims NEED to capture to just catch up to current GOP seats, then add in the redistricting that was done.
You guys would be better off praying for another Virgin Birth following a star in the east – the odds are much better!
re 18: Mtr: What the fuck are you yammering about , you EVILDOER?
Remember when Jesus drove the demon out of the herd of swine? You were one of the swine. I guess souls are immortal…..
Poon – List my evil deeds please…
MTR @ 23-
Fear and hate seemed to be your stratedt in the Sims v. Irons race. I guess you’re right, it doesn’t work.
Mark The Redneck @ 26
“List my evil deeds please…”
Well…to start with, you don’t make good on your bets.
I guess that is not exactly evil, but it does suggest you lack morals.
Goldy—
I fear this post is a result of a serious escalation in your consumption of libations!
I guess if you drink enuf, anything appears possible!
Most Democrat candidates don’t have some evil secret agenda.
Their problem is they don’t even have a fucking plan!!!
All they want is to be in charge.
Once in charge, the lack of a plan shines like a halogen light.
I am waiting for the State Legislature to go beserk this next session – again! Then we can duplicate Washington State history, and throw the Democrats out! Isn’t it funny how that works, when one party abuses their power, it comes back to haunt them, no matter which party it is………..
@ 3
Mark The Redneck, please see The Stranger’s Urban Archipeligo strategy. Lots of district would be red if not for the biggest city in them. WA state is a big red state, except for the urban Puget Sound fishhook, Whitman, WSU, and Vancouver. The rest is quite red. But those places do the trick.
@ 31
{snark) Yeah I know, the Democrats (and some GOPers) went so berserk when they passed a road bill that’ll fix roads, build new ones, and secure WA’s trasportation security! Maybe they’ll go berserk and properly fund rural schools, state universities, and urban crime reduction! (end snark)
To pick up the 15 seats that Democrats need to take the majority in the 2006 US House races, they would need to hold onto every one of their 11 competitive seats and then win 15 of 17 (or 88 percent) of the vulnerable and potentially vulnerable Republican-held seats…. um it ain’t gonna happen.
Mark (912 by 15) the Redneck:
You have an unassailable track record for being full of shit. I look forward to more of your high-level political anal-ysis.
Belltowner, if they stopped wasting millions they might be able to do those things for us. The transportation bill is a fraud, it is a mere fraction of what we truly need, while it funds the most luxurious items that the moonbats at DOT can find, it neglects critical safety and congestion problems in many counties. They will be back in our pockets with a vengence in 2 years wanting billions more for transportation. For some unknown reason Washington State’s transportation “record” is what nightmares are made of.
Belltowner,
What are your ideas for the urban crime reduction? And over 40% of the state’s budget for education isn’t enough? How much is enough?
I dunno about other people but it’s the people that matter in determining what ‘color’ a state is, not the population density. News flash: Cities exist for a reason. They make everything easier.
sgmmac… if you know critical safety and congestion problems… i suggest that you bring them to the attention of the DoT rather than bitching about it here.
@ 36
“it neglects critical safety and congestion problems in many counties” Cite your sources, please.
“They will be back in our pockets with a vengence in 2 years wanting billions more for transportation” Which is good for my region, considering transportation is very important to area business.
“if they stopped wasting millions” I know the waste and fraud meme is good for the right, but the Wash-DOT has had a very good record recently, which convinced Sen. Joyce Mulliken (R-13th LD) to vote for the recent transportation plan even though she had NEVER voted for a tax increase.
@ 37
Shotgun for every (legally) registered voter…
When every WA child has a good teacher in a building that is heated, with good supplies, and good technology, then I will say “enough”. We can do better, and we will.
How about instead of throwing more good money after bad, we simply require thatevery teacher is actually qualified to teach and that the money is used in the classroom instead of for bloated administrations and bureaucracies.
NEA: six figure worthless Democrat “guvment hack” pricks who can’t make it in the private sector.
I think it is funny to say that Dave Reichert has done nothing in the last year he has been in office. Maria Cantwell has done nothing in her entire term! It is so pathetic that the Dem leadership is figuring out ways to get her in the news.
What is even more pathetic is that Seattle will vote overwhelming to reelect her, and thus she will win another term. I can’t figure out what she has done besides declare war on the the laws of economics. She wants to arrest all the CEO’s of oil companies so that gas can be around $2 a gallon again. Oh, wait, it is already there! And no one had to go to jail! So, tell me again, what has she accomplished?
I’ve asked this before, and no one has yet to tell me anything.
@39
You are correct issofar as their execution and administration. Although, I think there is lots of waste there that they could clean up.
@ 43
Fair enough. You know, if we so waste-phobic when it came to big projects, we could never have been able to build Eastern WA dams, a great many of our bridges, and other big projects. Waste is important to prevent, but it should never prevent us from doing what MUST be done (just like how GOPers *wink* at fraud and waste in the military budget, with the understanding that, waste or no waste, we have to spend money on a military).
@ 42
I’d saying sticking it to Sen. Ted Stevens and protecting Puget Sound is pretty damn important and a good accomplishment.
Janet S: Corporate Crime Appologist
#39
Let’s see, I’m sure that I don’t know very many safety/congestion areas neglected. I know the ones that affect me or that I have read. There is a bridge in Seattle that was written about in the PI that is in much greater danger than the viaduct, it is falling apart, it’s not in the plan and Seattle/King County is trying to scrap the money together to repair it. In the Olympia/Lacey/Tumwater area we have 3 or 4 very congested spots on I-5, most especially going south around the highway 101 interchanges, nothing in the plan. We are getting millions in sound walls. For the last 8 months or so, everytime I’ve gone to Seattle, I’ve been stuck on I-5 crawling along at 25 to 30 miles an hour or stopped on I-5.
@44
I got a lecture from the rabbit on how spending bills are passed and he’s right, they bargain and barter, instead of doing what is right. As for the military, I spent 30 years of life there, and I got aggravated every year at the budget and all of the waste in it.
Janet S @ 42
“What is even more pathetic is that Seattle will vote overwhelming to reelect her, and thus she will win another term.”
How does that work? All of King County only accounts for 1/3 of the state’s voting population.
“So, tell me again, what has she accomplished?”
The easiest place to go is her web site to find this information. Additionally, Balter wrote a (now, slightly dated) piece on Maria here.
For fun, I might just post her list of accomplishments that were put on the original (mock) McGavick web site (it is on another computer than the one I am using now). Remember that site? The slogan was something like “Mike McGavick…because it is time for Washington to be represented by a man!”
“There is a bridge in Seattle that was written about in the PI that is in much greater danger than the viaduct, it is falling apart, it’s not in the plan and Seattle/King County is trying to scrap the money together to repair it.”
You refer to the 14th Ave S Bridge, which is just south of Boeing Field. You’re right about that, it needs to be replaced. Seattle/KingCo will get it together soon on that one, and will be paid for by Seattle/KingCo residents.
@44
100 million for animal bridges on I-90, around 80 million for taxes back to the general fund, 100 million for sound walls, 100 million for filmsy cable guardrails, 100 million for landscaped lids on 520…….. and the burning question is are there any more rock walls out there getting ready to crash down and kill people?
“In the Olympia/Lacey/Tumwater area we have 3 or 4 very congested spots on I-5, most especially going south around the highway 101 interchanges, nothing in the plan.”
Oddly enough, you make a good arguement for additional revenue for roads. As a Seattle resident, it is in my interest that Olympia/Lacey be well served, so that the whole state benefits.
As for sound walls, they’re bullshit until you live near a freeway. And then they’re indespensible.
Also, 25 to 30 on I-5 at rushhour would be AWESOME. Compared to a stand still, that’s great.
@51
If I was a betting person, I would bet that one of our local legislators lives near I -5 and that’s the real story as to why they are building sound walls down here. I am not trying to be mean, but I think bridges falling and rocks killing people is a higher priority than sound walls and landscaped lids. Bill Gates won’t die if he has to drive on 520 and look at the open air and the lake instead of a bridge with a lid on top of it.
@ 47
For spending bills, I don’t mind making sure every county gets a bite at the apple, it’s the American way.
@ 50
I imagine that if those line items comprised even a modest percentage of the bill, that would be bad, but they don’t.
Well, thanks, all of you. No one actually told me what Maria has accomplished. A reference to the still current chair of the transportation committee, and telling me to go read her website. This is lame. Which means she has done absolutely nothing but bloviate.
Anyone care to write in a couple of sentences what she has done? What bills have her name on them? What legislation has she worked to get passed? What does she stand for?
Don’t tell me about the Repubs voting 98% for the party. Maria and Patty are 100% behind the Dem leadership. Neither has expressed an original thought since they got to DC.
@51
We have some pretty big distribution centers down here, right off of I-5 and they want to build more and that of course means lots of tractor/trailers. Our city council didn’t make life easy on them by installing TWO roundabouts for the semi’s……
@ 54
As s south Sound resident, you’re probably not privy to the political backnforth regarding 520, but it’s very tough. Medina (the WA city with one of the highest per capita incomes) does NOT want a rebuild of 520 that does not include a lid, big ol’ sound proof walls, etc. And they have lots of $$$, so they can hire lawyers and sue the shit out of DOT if they don’t get their way. Almost the same goes for Montlake on the other side of the lake.
Any of those items would fund that bridge in Seattle and a lot more. Every transportation project doesn’t need to be the Taj Majal. We also need to do things ONE time. The filmsy cable barriers are an example of that. WSDOT needs one ongoing project for road barriers, the minimum standard should be jersey barriers. All of the cable barriers they are installing will be replaced with jersey barriers in the next decade or so.
@ 57
What are roundabouts? I don’t have a reference for that…
I read that UW won’t give up land either.
@60
They are a circle in the middle of a road or intersection to control traffic. In Europe, they are called traffic circles. They replace stop signs and traffic lights.
Janet S @ 56
“Well, thanks, all of you. No one actually told me what Maria has accomplished. A reference to the still current chair of the transportation committee, and telling me to go read her website. This is lame. Which means she has done absolutely nothing but bloviate.”
No…that does not logically follow. But, what it does mean (and this does follow, since I am the person who suggest two sources of information to you and I know my own motivation for not investing too much time in summarizing things for you) is that people are uninterested in doing your homework for you. It is clear that you have made up your mind that you don’t like Cantwell, and therefore for any of us to invest any time to convince you otherwise is a waste of time.
@ 59
I don’t know the skinny on cable railings. You might shoot an email to Doug McDonald about that, and ask him why. You’d be suprised how helpful these gov’t employees can be (when you’re nice)
#60
They are supposed to keep traffic moving. They kinda do, they take getting used to and they are hard on big trucks and the trucks take up both lanes in the circle. And of course, the land in the middle is landscaped!
@ 61
Montlake wants to shift the west side of 520 north, next to Husky Stadium, and away from their neighborhood. The plan they have for doing that is sort of “goofy”, so don’t be too hard on the UW for not being quick to offload their property.
The Olympian printed a story on the guard rails right after the legislature ended. A DOT rep was quoted as saying something like they know they don’t stop all accidents, but they were better than nothing. One of the TV stations did a story on them too claiming they only stop 90% of accidents. They only stand about two feet tall, Any SUV would roll right over them.
@ 60
Traffic circles seems like a goofy choice for the Oly area. I’d expect to see those in the suburbs of Seattle (the ONE I know of is in Sammamish)
DJ – sending me to Maria’s website is not research. It is an excuse for having nothing to say. She has done nothing in her term, except vote the party line. Can you tell me a single piece of legislation that she has pushed through?
The thundering silence here is deafening.
We have 7 circles in Lacey that I know of and have driven around in.
The fact that no one is proclaiming the greatness of Maria leads me to believe that no one thinks she has done anything!
Of course, she hasn’t. Browbeating the chairman of the transporation committee to swear in energy executives just makes her look foolish. Making a profit is not a crime. She tried to demonize oil companies but just looks stupid instead.
I can’t wait for this next election when she proclaims her independence from special interest groups. Then, after the election, she will go to all the lobbyist parties and recoup all of her campaign debt. That’s what she did the last time, without a peep from all you good government, public financing of election folks.
@ 70
What the hell are you guys doing down there? I don’t think Paris has 7 circles!
Janet you are either a fool or deliberately blind tothe facts. Can you tell me of any bill with a Dem’s name? It’s called minority status.
They are the bomb according to the city council and they want more. Of course our accidents increased because no-one knows how to drive in them, even me and I’ve driven in them in Germany. Truck drivers hate them. I think the council like the landscaped centers, they are under fire for allowing development to chop down all of the big douglas firs and put up puny ornamentals. Their solution to our congestion was to make two roads one-ways and put up circles. They do keep the traffic moving actually.
Hey trolls! I want to make a special point of wishing all of you a very Happy Holidays!
(to music accompaniment)
HAPPY HOLIDAYS … HAPPY HOLIDAYS … HAPPY HOLIDAYS …
And, in the interst of diversity — and to demonstrate that I know how to cram my religion down someone else’s throat like Republicans do — I want to wish you, Stefan, a very Merry Christmas!
Why should Republicans be the only ones allowed to cram their religion down other people’s throats? Republicans want a monopoly on every fucking thing! If Republicans can do it, rabbits should be able to cram their religion down people’s throats, too!
Hey Goldy — Happy Holidays!
Oh, and in case I forgot — Merry Christmas, Stefan!
So, Stefan, why are you going to screw the generous donors who contributed to your “legal action fund” out of their share of the money you’re gonna get from the lawsuit they paid for? Do you need to money because you can’t hold a job, or simply because you’re a greedy selfish prick? Can your wife get me a good deal on a Hyundai?
Hey trolls — this is for you!! (You need to have your computer’s audio turned on)
http://www.videocodezone.com/v.....idays.html
Now if that doesn’t make EVERYONE happy — it has both “Merry Christmas” and “Happy Holidays” in it — well, then, I guess some people just don’t WANT to be happy.
N.B.: “Happy” is a state of mind, and some people (e.g., Republicans) refuse to be happy. Well, if they want to be unhappy, that’s their fucking problem! If you’re a Republican, go cry on someone else’s shoulder, because I don’t have time for your personal problems! It’s not my fault the horses in Enumclaw spurned your advances. You should have treated them better.
Janet S @ 69
”DJ – sending me to Maria’s website is not research. It is an excuse for having nothing to say.”
As usual, you misunderstood my response. I was suggesting you use the two references I gave you to do your own fucking research. (I charge $200/hr to do research for other people so don’t expect me to do your work unless you put up some dough.)
Janet S @ 71
“The fact that no one is proclaiming the greatness of Maria leads me to believe that no one thinks she has done anything!”
No…logically that is a non-sequitur. As I pointed out above, nobody feels it is worth his or her time to respond to your silly question.
Sorry…them’s the facts.
Progressive’s could never match the sheer ruthlessness of the Conserve’s, so MTR, PD, Jan, HCYBPtbAA (did I miss any Trolls? If so, apologies) may be right about “Dems have zero chance of taking over any branch of gummint at fed level”.
We do not disenfranchise African Americans with unconstitutional laws, rig electronic ballot boxes with secret software codes, or illegally challenge a citizens right to vote because they do not belong to our political party.
In short, we play by the rules and in an age where the Attorney General of the United States ignores his staff lawyers’ to support a voting plan that discriminates against minorities, this can be a challenge.
Gentlemen Johnny learned a very pain full lesson last year when he ran against a party that would sell out their own daughters to win an election. But despite all of this, despite the ruthless efficiency of the Rightwing noise machine, the toadying of the media whores (even CSPAN), despite the better message discipline of the Repubs, President Bush favorability rating is still around 40%. And since shit usually rolls down hill, more then a few Congress critters are worried about 2006.
Why do Dems need to do anything at all right now? At the rate things are going, most of the republican-controlled Senate and House will be up for grabs because most of the republicans will be serving jail time for their various, constant and completely corrupt deeds!
Maria and Patty are 100% behind the Dem leadership.
And that is why I will continue to give them my support. What’s your reason, Janet S.?
hey roger,
What are the happy holiday’s ya’ll wish peop;le?
I know of Christmas and Hannaukah. Beyond that nothing legit, of any consequence. And Jews I think don’t really elevate Hannaukah; its a mid level holiday elevated cuz of living amidst majority christian pop.
I intentionally ignor kwanzaa, which is not a religious holiday.
Setting aside the happy horseshit of the GOP pretending they had any sort of real positive agenda in 1994, redistricting has made the political landscape fundamentally different.
There are many more districts drawn in such a way as to all but ensure the GOP holds on to them.
carla,
As I remember it, the D’s were reeling from a number of scandals at the time. From Rostenkowski’s running of the Ways and Means committee (hint: it was very similar to what Randy Cunningham did), to the membership of the House kiting checks, add to that Clinton’s tax hike, and that led the GOP to come up with their positive agenda in 1994. If you guys want to try to mirror that, you need to make the “Bush lied” mantra stick, which so far has not happened, as well as reinvent wherever it is you believe you can affect positive change in government. “We’re not the GOP” is not an advantageous message for a mid-term election, IMO. Nor is it good policy for a Party out of power to simply object because they don’t like what the majority Party does without offering an alternative.
As for redistricting, I actually agree with you. Too bad California failed to enact their fair ballot proposition for redistricting.
The Dems our coming up with some great plans on individual issues to present sometime next year when the time is right. So far I’ve seen creative new ideas for a simplier, fairer tax system and for a plan to radically reduce the number of abortions. I’m guessing by mid-year, the Democrats will be able to lay out a set of plans that Americans will want to see enacted – which means electing Democrats to enact them and sending those sorry, corrupt Republicans back home.
DJ is right — the best way to deal with Janet S. is to just ignore her. She’s interested in spin, not real dialogue.
Personally, I’m not thrilled with Cantwell, but the Democrat’s can’t afford to lose another Senate vote. And I do give her points for slapping down Stevens, who really deserved it.
I haven’t seen the numbers, so I don’t know if it is realistic to take back the House. However, I do think that it is very realistic to swing the political momentum in the Democrat’s favor. Once the public begins to understand the depth of corruption in the Republican machine, I think the backlash will ultimately be bigger than that which followed Watergate.
Janet S: Don’t feel bad. The libs can’t tell you who was the 2002 Senate Campaign Chairman Until this hint. She was from this state. It shows you how ignorant these ASSes are when it comes to politics. The ONLY thing these ASSes know is their inbred hatred for GWB.
RR@78: Yes, you can worship the Muslim Islamofascist way. Be my guest. Find the nearest mosque and attend this coming Friday. The ACLU is leading you there right now. I’ll continue to worship the Son Jesus and Father God. And RR Merry Christmas. I wish you a Merry Christmas! But in case that’s not politically correct, Crappy Holidays!
Janet S is the “keeper of the talking points” for the HA.org Bush-Davidians. She’ll keep spinning as the flames of the burning building consume everything around her.
Cantwell has shown leadership on a sane energy policy that will create jobs in this country without wrecking the environment. She has worked to recover money from the Enron disaster. She is limited in what she can do because she is a junior Senator in the minority.
I don’t see how ordinary working Washingtonians can send a man like McGavick to the Senate millionaire’s club especially if he made his pile sending their jobs to India.
The Christ is looking at Puddy with benign amusement…He doesn’t like the way his message is being perverted…but He knows the Pudster is not malicious.
How do I know?
He told me.
When the ELGIs are defeated the GWoT is over.
inbred hatred for GWB
Regnery Publications teach wingnuts nine-hundred, ninety-ninety nine thousand, nine-hundred ninety nine ways to hate Bill Clinton.
When things are going bad for wingnuts, just read a Regnery book – hating Bill Clinton solves everything.
righton, what exactly do you mean by ‘legit’? Or are you with puddy only being in favor of freedom of religion so long as its a choice betweeen branches of christianity?
In a study done in 2001, there were around 750,000 neo-pagans in the US, and that number has grown at the rate of doubling every 18 months for a decade and a half. I think Yule counts as legit.
Wow, the Anton LaVey/Donnageddeen wing of non-Christian worship is growing?
BillASS, when Christ returns what will you have to say? “Sorry Son of God, I never knew you”? “Wow, I guess I was wrong”? Or “Rocks fall on me to hide me from He who is Righteous”?
RugratASS, I think I’ll pass on learning anything religious from you with a potty mouth like yours!
Clueless: Yes, Bill Clinton was a blight on the body politik! He introduced young children to the “joys” of premarital middle school oral sex. He taught those children to parse two letter words. Now he breaks tradition and criticizes sitting presidents. All those things were never done before. Goooooooooooooooooo clueless!
Wow puddy, what a total non-sequiter. So are you saying that you know that you are so right that you want to throw out the Constitution and just make christianity a state requirement then?
Oh, by the way, you are correct that oral and anal sex among young teens is up. It is up in all those schools that stopped teaching sex education and started trying to teach ‘abstinence only’.
puddy, why do you hate the Constitution so much?
Oh, and Anton LeVay has nothing to do with neo-paganism. Wasn’t there something about bearing false witness?
More that 82% of Americans consider themselves Christian.
Another 2% consider themselves Jewish or of other non-Christian faith
In July 2005, the estimate population of the US was 295,734,134.
That means 248,416,667 are part of Chritisanilty or a major religion.
So now tell me again about those 750,000 neopagans… you know that 0.002536061 percent of the country.
TripleP @ 95
Just hate Bill Clinton, Puddy. Let that hate out. Grab that Regnery book, that Murdoch paper, flip on the Faux News, turn up the Limbaugh.
Now hate.. I-912? Hate Bill Clinton… Soldiers coming home with missing body parts and messed up heads? Hate Bill Clinton… 200 billion plus down the toilet.. Hate Bill Clinton… Duke Cunningham caught with his pants down? Hate Bill Clinton… No WMD? Hate Bill Clinton…
Everything just fine on the home front. Taxes cut for the rich. Pork barrel spending in Republican districts out of control. Average wages for americans stagnant. Corporate profits at an all time high. Executives fat and happy on bloated salaries, bonuses and stock options. The fire of hate for Bill Clinton is stoked keeping the Puddy crowd mesmerized. Dubya says everything’s cool – just go shopping at Walmart. Happy holidays.
And, your 750,000 figure is a lie…er, stretch… in 2004 there were 433,267, up a whopping 1/10 of 1% fromm 2003.
I posted for you in the open thread aplty-named-clueless…. you and the other liberals will have no trouble recognizing it.
Nice to see you’re back to form ASS. Spewing nonsensical wingnut propaganda in total rather than linking to it – either way we’ll give it a glance, see it for the preaching-to-the-choir, wingnut swill it is – and ignore it.
Keep spewing ASS. Go overboard and Goldy’ll have to bring you to heel again.
I qualified it as from a CONSERVATIVE source you nitwit… that’s called honesty.
Threats? Whoop de do – bring it on, bigboy.
RE; Marks @88:
Actually it was a poorly written effort. Yeah, we have a whole load of politcal crap put into redistricting, just like every other state I have heard of. However this was a proposition that was loaded with potential political actions without the review of political airing. But we would also like to see a better way.
I’ll steal a trick from Pudfdly and post the same message twice!There is only ONE branch of Christianity…The Jesus Branch.
****************************************************************
The Christ said: “There are only two commandments…love the Lord God with your whole heart and your whole soul and…love your neighbor as youself.”
He said a lot of other neat shit that most “christians” conveniently forget.
Good thing He’s NOT vengeful. There’d be a LOT right-wing commenteers turned into snakes and slugs.
Comment by rujax206— 12/4/05 @ 11:18 am
***************************************************************
He introduced young children to the “joys” of premarital middle school oral sex.
Freep you truly are looney tune. I couldn’t let this one go. Sorry, Linda Tripp and Ken Starr introduced it. Imagine middle school kids downloading Starr’s porn in pdf format!
A private affair between two consenting ADULTS should have stayed that way – private.
Isn’t it interesting all theses God haters and Christian bashers spouting off the Bible like it’s written on their arm…so which are they LYING about – hating us or knowing the Bible?
Actually, I should have said LYING about hating God.
Too bad the cowardly righties only read the parts of the Bible that support thier political arguments. Otherwise, how would they justify ignoring all of Christ’s sermons regarding peacemakers and feeding the hungry? Well we all know their hypocrites and frankly, if Heaven is full of assholes like Falwell and Robertson I’d rather go to Hell anyday of the week.
You’re REALLY an Ass, Ass.
And A REAL “Christian”, too!
Ass, I included a link to a source. You appearantly pulled a number out of your ass. I find it fascinating that you automatically assume that any non-christians hate god and just could not have read or studied the christian bible.
Oh, and the post you responded to there was my response about the legitimacy of non-christian winter holidays. (Its also fascinating that you use a political discussion as a spingboard to attack other religions. Oh, yeah, I am really believing how persecuted christians are in this country. You and puddy are the only ones here attacking other religions.) Based on numbers, neo-pagans are a growing religion. As an example, those claiming jewish faith are only at 2.2 million and Islam is 1.1. I’d say our winter holiday is a legitimate winter holiday.
The question here, that you keep avoiding is not which religion is better, but whether or not people can choose and practice their own religion in peace.
Oh please .. a “religious tolerance” source – give me a break.
try this one, you nitwit.
Or here …I’ll even give you a hint – try pages 55 and 56.
here
So let’s recap, you start whining and throwing around false numbers, I disprove your numbers… twice… and now I’m attacking minority religions.
How do you nutburgers get through a day attempting to live with such twisted reasoning?
You idiot, the page I pointed at is using this document for numbers. Go to page 67 of the page you pointed at and look at Wiccan between 90 and 01 for growth rate. The 750k number is a combination of wicca and pagan subtracting the normal rate of non-wiccan pagans and then adding children.
Those wiccans and their spawn must be dropping like flies then, eh…
And, your 750,000 figure is a lie…er, stretch… in 2004 there were 433,267, up a whopping 1/10 of 1% fromm 2003. -Comment by HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS— 12/4/05 @ 12:10 pm
@112
“whether or not people can choose and practice their own religion in peace.”
I believe the constitution guarantees it. The freedom of religion is one of reasons this country was founded. How many different ethnic groups came to the US because they were persecuted in their home countries? The ACLU sued a city in California over a cross on the city’s shield/logo. The same logo had a pagan woman warrior on it. I never heard what happened in court, but I’m pretty sure the city took off the cross.
from the ARIS document that you posted, self identified wiccans went from 8k to 134k between 90 and 2001. But thats only part of the story, many wiccans call themselves pagan, so part of the pagan numbers have to be included. Then youve got to add children which are not part of the ARIS numbers, an assuption of 1 adult per child is pretty normal for the US. Hence 750k in 2001. I am not sure at all where you are getting 433k since youve still not said.
Puddy tied wicca to Anton LeVey. You are the one who started throwing around phrases like “God haters and Christian bashers” when clearly you know nothing at all about the religion.
It’s always a one-way street with these AntiChristianLiberalUnited pukes, away form the majority of American and toward the whining, squeaky wheel minority.
I’m glad the liberal align themselves with it.
The Christian wingnuts are the equivalent of the Pharisees in Jesus’ time.
This is a highly recommended analysis.
The Jesus that I’m for spoke truth to power and made no bones about where people should put their priorities.
See Luke 18:18-25.
The Jesus that I’m for spoke truth to power and made no bones about where people should put their priorities.
See Luke 18:18-25. -Comment by For the Clueless— 12/4/05 @ 1:07 pm
That is the first and only rational thing you have ever said.
Now, the question remains, why to you bash the faithful?
For the same reason Jesus in a rage drove the moneychangers out of the temple.
For they claim they have faith but what is their work?
Bill at 94
Thinking people are insulted by “happy holidays”. AS far as I know, there are only 2 this time of year, Christmas and Hannaukah. If Islam has one, i’m happy to include it. But i’ll just say happy hanakuh, merry christmas and maybe happy islam whatever. (never happy kwanza)
As for witches and pagan, naw they don’t count
and ps, you must not know that Judaism is not a branch of christianity, or you would have answered correctly
sgmmac that was the City of La Mesa. Their current insignia (upper left hand corner) is a simple landscape. I can not imagine why non christians would have a problem with
crusaderspolice coming to their door wearing a cross on their chest.BUSH’S “VICTORY” SPEECH = ESCALATION?
“Bush’s Speech on Iraq War Echoes Voice of an Analyst
“By SCOTT SHANE
[New York Times]
“Published: December 4, 2005
“WASHINGTON, Dec. 3 – There could be no doubt about the theme of President Bush’s Iraq war strategy speech on Wednesday at the Naval Academy. He used the word victory 15 times in the address; ‘Plan for Victory’ signs crowded the podium he spoke on; and the word heavily peppered the accompanying 35-page National Security Council document titled, ‘Our National Strategy for Victory in Iraq.’
“Although White House officials said many federal departments had contributed to the document, its relentless focus on the theme of victory strongly reflected a new voice in the administration: Peter D. Feaver, a Duke University political scientist who joined the N.S.C. staff as a special adviser in June and has closely studied public opinion on the war.
“Despite the president’s oft-stated aversion to polls, Dr. Feaver was recruited after he and Duke colleagues presented the administration with an analysis of polls about the Iraq war in 2003 and 2004. They concluded that Americans would support a war with mounting casualties on one condition: that they believed it would ultimately succeed.
That finding, which is questioned by other political scientists, was clearly behind the victory theme in the speech and the plan, in which the word appears six times in the table of contents alone, including sections titled ‘Victory in Iraq is a Vital U.S. Interest’ and ‘Our Strategy for Victory is Clear.’
“‘This is not really a strategy document from the Pentagon about fighting the insurgency,’ said Christopher F. Gelpi, Dr. Feaver’s colleague at Duke and co-author of the research on American tolerance for casualties. ‘The Pentagon doesn’t need the president to give a speech and post a document on the White House Web site to know how to fight the insurgents. The document is clearly targeted at American public opinion.'”
Hmmm. Now isn’t this interesting! Pay attention to these two key phrases:
“Dr. Feaver … concluded that Americans would support a war with mounting casualties on … condition … they believed it would ultimately succeed.”
and
“That finding … which is questioned by other political scientists ….”
Shades of Richard Nixon’s 1968 “secret plan to end the war” in Vietnam. Deja vu all over again!
As an Atheist, I find all religions equally silly. As a practical individual, I know that my Christian bothers will get all the special privileges because they are the majority religion, including a free federal holiday on the public’s dime. Okay, I can deal with it.
What I will not except, and will fight at every breath in my body, is the doctrine of forced religion in a captive audience.
Now what exactly is this? Good question.
This is forced religion in a captive audience. The First year “rats” could avoid this bullshit, if they skipped dinner. The 4th Circuit, not exactly a bastion of liberalism, said no.
No means no. No religion unless requested. No requirements for religion as the price for employment, public office, or the vote.
commander ogg
at least the democrat is honest about his atheism
Sooo … Bush is once again reaching to sycophants … people who tell him what he wants to hear … in an attempt to talk himself into believing this is doable, this war can be won, and he can sell “mounting casualties” to the American people if he can convince them victory is possible.
Sorry, George, but you lost this war the day high-ranking officials in your administration decided to torture people. Did you really believe only the guilty would be tortured? That no one would find out? That, somehow, Iraqi civilians could be plucked from Iraqi streets; tortured; released back into Iraqi society — and Iraqis wouldn’t figure it out? Or was the plan to kill them all — innocent and guilty alike — because “dead men tell no tales?”
Hey wingnuts — THIS is why you don’t torture people: Because you can’t control it, you end up torturing innocents, it’s always exposed in the end, and it COSTS YOU. In this case, the torture of innocent Iraqi civilians is going to cost us a war that brave and honorable American soldiers fought hard to win, and sacrificed their lives for.
And when the day of America’s defeat in Iraq comes, I know exactly what you wingfucks are going to say: You’re going to blame it on the people who exposed the torture, instead of the torturers; you’re going to blame it on “defeatist liberals,” instead of the idiots who fucked up this war. Republicans can always be counted on to do two things: To screw up, and to never accept responsibility for their screwups.
Here’s the link to the story: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12.....artner=AOL
Reply to 129
It would be nice if Republicans would be honest about their intentions of forcing one specific religion — theirs — on our whole country. It’s pretty clear from what’s going on at the Air Force Academy what their agenda is for the rest of us. You either accept their religion, or — no job, no social acceptance, no participation in society.
Independent. Leaning toward Democrats because we have a two party system and the theocrats, aka American Taliban, have taken over the Republican Party. The flight suit in chief will not take a crap without their permission.
Nope, cant figure it out at all.
hey righton, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Satanism all have the same god. They also all have nothing to do with paganism. Thanks for the clarification, you only believe in freedom of religion if one chooses a monotheistic god.
Hate religious speech? That’s too bad… The founders seldom completed a single sentence without referring to their religious beliefs and they wrote the First Amendment for the purpose of insuring that free religious expression would always be part of the social discourse in this country. Fundamental morality and free religious expression = American.
@132,
I don’t like it cause I like tradition and history, but knowing how demonizing people can be, I can understand someone being afraid. It doesn’t look anything like the crest that I saw on TV being disucssed. On of the Army’s symbols is a chopped up woman with stars, arrows, and other delightful things! There also is a Eagle holding an olive branch in one talon and an arrow in the other talon. Depending on which way the eagle’s head is pointed tells you whether we are at peace or war.
Bill, Do the pagans have any relationship to the Druids in England? Arn’t they the ones who built Stonehenge?
bill
naw, you are wrong.
Christians claim to worship same god as jews, but since we believe in the trinity, i’d guess a good orthodox rabbi could say we differ. As for others, they can same its the same, and the muslims do, but it isnt’ the same. Satanists ….ugh.
142
The founders also owned slaves.
If we let the traditionalists who think everything the Founding Fathers did was peachy keen run our lives, we will:
1. Own slaves;
2. Not allow women or non-landowning classes to vote;
3. Light our homes with whale oil lamps;
4. Get around in horse-drawn buggies;
5. Settle our political quarrels with duels.
Let’s see, how many times has the Constitution been amended? Count ’em, twenty-seven (27) amendments. The Founding Fathers didn’t get everything right; and times change. Hey, our elected officials can (and do) talk about God and their personal religions all the time. They go to church. They invoke the Almighty in their speeches, usually in the same breath as patriotism; and the more corrupt they are, the more they invoke God and patriotism! Frankly, I’ve always been suspicious of politicians who talk about God a lot, and go to church a lot, because they’re usually the ones who need a lot of soul-saving.
roger, what’s wrong w 2, 4 and 5?
142
The founders also owned slaves.
Comment by Roger Rabbit— 12/4/05 @ 6:03 pm
So using Wabbit logic our founders didn’t abort babies but since they were wrong on slavery it is OK to abort babies.
sgmmac, Both of those are rather hotly debated among both pagans and anthropologists.
Gardner claimed that he was building on information gathered from folks who had maintained the ‘old ways’ throught the times when christianity was in power, how true that is noone knows. However, a lot of what he included had been published earlier in ‘the Golden Bough’, so was it direct lineage back to druids or was it recreated archiologically? Noone knows.
Simalarly, the druids definitely did use Stonehenge, but it appears that they modified a structure that was already there. The sacrifice stone for example is several centuries newer than the surrounding rings, and the bits further out from the center are even newer. There was an older stone road (buried) that the druids didnt use, they clearly did not know it was there. So did they build it and forget part or did they find it and modify it, noone really knows.
Ass, you just dont get it, youve got a fundemental right to have a religion and to express it. However, you become unamerican when you try to write adherence to your religion into the law.
Blue laws? Crosses in courthouses? Making reference to other gods illegal? Making the utterance of disparaging remarks about the christian god illegal? Declaring worship of a god other than that monotheistic god to be child abuse? Those are unamerican.
Pay attention to who is saying what on this very thread, righton actually said that pagan religions are not legitimate religions.
Ya’ll need to depart Fremont for a weekend and see some of the rest of America. You’d find the fascination w/ wiccans, druids and satan to be rather odd..
Bill,
Blue laws still exist. I don’t remember the state, but there was a big hoopla over it on Thanksgiving. Some stores decided to open and the police shut them down. I remember going to South Carolina in 1977 to be Drill Sergeant and later in early 1980, I had my daughter and lived off post in Columbia. There was a 7-11 like store right behind my apartment building, so one Sunday when I ran out of shoe polish, I walked over there to get some. I was in shock when they wouldn’t sell me the shoe polish because of blue laws. I’ve been talking trash about stupid blue laws ever since.
Bill, Thanks for the info with the Druids and Pagans. I find it interesting that a lot of different peoples have references to little people in their legends. The Irish, the Hawaiians, the Phillipinos, the English, and I’m sure there are many more.
BillASS: I saw that Wicca and Satanism use the pentagram. Why would Wicca use the same thing unless there is some other force behind their beliefs? Why not choose the square or the rectangle or the septagram or the octagram? When I looked further the Satanic pantagram is down while the Wicca is up. Since neither acknowledge the REAL GOD, HIS SON JESUS, or the HOLY SPIRIT, they are similar otherwise.
As a Christian who has conservative beliefs (I do not follow Jerry Falwell or Pat Pobertson, or Bill Bright, or Frederick Price, or Jimmy Swaggart, or James Dobson), I call BULLSHIT on the spew you all have. I call BULLSHIT on “catholics” who claim their religion but support others in legalized murder. I call BULLSHIT on people who see evil but look the other way. You ASSes see the islamofascism evil and you ASSes ignore it. Your “blessed” ACLU wants to support the terrorists being interrogated wherever, when these same terrorists will slit the throat of the ACLU leader Nadine Strossen in a heartbeat. I also call BULLSHIT that you all love minorities. You all need minorities to keep what little power you have in the blue states, dominated by blue cities. Name me a program that has truly improved the inner city plight or the inner school system. Don’t even place Head Start in front of me. I can name a whole bunch of problems with Head Start and how it has destroyed the black family unit.
Have a great day!!!
“I call BULLSHIT on people who see evil but look the other way.”
Hmmm … that’s quite a list, pudcheeks. But you left one thing out. I call BULLSHIT on people (like you) who don’t know evil when they see it.
C H E N E Y
Clueless: I submit Matthew 25:25-end of the chapter for you. Blow the dust off the Bible and read it. When H says H never knew ye be sure to look in the mirror. God gave specific instances when people were to be put to death. Abortion is not there. Man created abortion, not God!
Rupert Wabbet: If I compare the EVIL of JFKerry vs. the evil of Richard Cheney, I’ll choose Cheney everyday. Cheney worries about our well being. Kerry worries whom not to piss off in the donkocratic tent vs what’s good for the American people. First it was Howard Dean, then it was the abortionists, then it was his lack of campaign minorities, then it was the liberal gun owners.
You know in a way you could make a case that the same people who allow and practice abortion today are the same type of people who allowed and practice slavery 150 years ago. The similarities are many.
Puddy, that was just silly. Both the Christians and the ancient Druids use a cross. Why did you choose to use the cross? Are you saying that there is some link between christianity and druidism?
Wow, it only took three days for you to actually get that there are people who worship gods other than yours. Now if we could only convince you that the Constitution says that we can do so.
sgmmac, a lot of folks have noticed that same similarity. Among the Celts, its quite easy to explain anthropologically, there were several waves of immigration across Europe and the later groups each tended to be slightly larger than the previous (well, one wave was smaller — mediteranian types who mined and made iron armor while the rest of europe was in the bronze age were smaller than those already there, hence dwarves). Still, that really doen’t explain the similarities with the same types of legends.
That observation was kind of the basis for Jung’s work in archetypes.
Bill;
Come Good Friday many churches will help you understand why we chose the cross; a symbol of the execution of Jesus.
Why waste money trying to defeat McMorris and Hastings when it will never be done? You’ll starve candidates with a real chance.
PFK(PPP) @ 157
I think one can infer if it is not clearly stated that life begins when the body receives its soul. In Genesis Adam received his soul when he took his first breath.
That’s certainly a looser definition than most if not all abortion regulations in this country.