Patrick O’Callahan of the Tacoma News Tribune has an editorial about public sector unions. Because daily newspapers in this state exist mostly to serve the powerful, he doesn’t like them.
In Wisconsin, the backlash against government unions has taken the form of a GOP drive to repeal collective bargaining for most public-sector employees. Similar drives are happening in other states where Republicans recently won governorships and gained control over legislatures.
In Washington in 2 years it may take the form of Rob McKenna if we’re not vigilant. But of course these types of editorials serve as a test run for their pro McKenna propaganda. So here’s my test run of opposing that bullshit.
This would not be happening if the unions had the support of the public. Many of those unions have forfeited that support by clinging to lush compensation packages at a time when workers in the private sector – including union members – are enduring the toughest economy in generations. A time when public services are being scaled back ruthlessly while generous labor contracts have continued on autopilot.
Yes, if only teachers agreed to live in poverty for the privilege of long hours ensuring the next generation has the requisite skills to survive as adults. If only firefighters would pay for all of their own health care for the honor of saving your life and property. If only police and prosecutors would demand extra, uncompensated work because putting criminals away is just so inherently rewarding. If only doctors and nurses were demanding to pay for their own training. Then perhaps the editorial writers in this state would support them.
Too many examples are found in Pierce County. Although the cost of living has been flat, some union leaders have adamantly rejected pleas to reopen their contracts to reduce “cost-of-living” raises that considerably exceed the actual rate of inflation.
That’s how it’s supposed to work in a healthy economy. Wages are supposed to rise beyond inflation. What do you want all public employees to make, inflation adjusted, the same as they were making in the early days of the Oregon Territory? As if there shouldn’t have been any raise in the standard of living for public employees ever? Come on. That attitude is why we have public employee unions.
County workers saw their compensation increase by 23 percent between 2005 and 2009, when their private sectors saw 14 percent. They’re doing quite well. Yet their leaders last year refused a request to roll back another round of raises, though the rollback would have helped spare county services.
This is such bullshit. This editorial and the thousands of others we’ve read and will read about public sector unions in all the papers across the state never seem to have any suggestions to bump up those numbers for private sector employees. It’s always cited as fucking gospel that the private sector numbers are a fact of nature as immovable as a boulder in your path. But if you believe these numbers and want public and private employees making roughly the same, then you need to figure out how improve the pay of private sector employees. It seems to me that the numbers you’re throwing around are a pretty damn fine case for more and stronger private sector unions.
A better case for having news sources not owned by the upper 1%.
Near as I can figure the only things Patrick O’Callahan likes are his cock and his gun. Um… Scratch that first one, if he had to choose just one, he’d probably pick the gun.
Mcclatchy Newspapers have a long history being anti-union and the Tacoma News Tribune has gleefully played it’s roll in this.
Actually, police and fire fighters supported Scott Walker’s run for the governors office and are, conveniently, exempt from this law. See how it works, back Walker and keep your rights, back some other schmo and you could lose them.
I heard that O’Callahan has adamantly rejected pleas from some union leaders to stop fucking goats.
“Compensation” is a very useful word when trying to smokescreen the conversation.
The Unions my company does business with (there are three of them) (I am management BTW), negotiated health care benefits coverage in the last sets of negotiations *instead of* significant wage increases. It’s not the Union workers fault that healthcare costs increased tremendously over the last few years. So…when the editorials decry the “compensation” that Union workers are receiving, it could damn well be that the cost of health care is skyrocketing and the contract that is in effect is covering increased healthcare and NOT wages going into the bank accounts of the workers.
Jesus. These editorial board writers are so hellbent on painting Unions in a bad light they overlook the obvious. What a bunch of twits!
FTR, our Union workers are the most reliable, professional, and conscientious people on the planet. Painting Union workers with the bad brush that conservatives are wont to do, is so wrong on so many levels. As a member of management I’d like to say: Stop! You are doing so much more damage than you will ever know!
I heard that Michael has adamantly rejected pleas from family and friends to stop fucking goats.
@6
Only righties fuck goats. The occasional lefty has an occasional go with a sheep, but I’m not one of those sort of lefties.
I don’t remember seeing TNT editorials about mortgage brokers making $2 million a year for writing bad loans or bankers being paid multi-million-dollar bonuses while their banks were going under. Why do they have a problem with public workers making $40,000 a year? It wasn’t public workers who caused the economic crisis.
Interestingly, those who hate on public workers exempt cops and firefighters — and their unions — maybe because those groups vote Republican. So, it isn’t unionized public workers making $120,000 a year (counting overtime) that are bad; it’s only unionized public workers making $40,000 a year who vote Democratic that are bad.
@5 “You are doing so much more damage than you will ever know!”
They know that. Their strategy is transparent: Set various worker groups against each other to divide and conquer. Then, when they have broken the backbone of worker unity, take them ALL down. So the 1% who already own most of America’s wealth and get most of America’s income can take what’s left and relegate the other 99% of us to serfdom. Or maybe we’re just surplus and their long-range plans are to eliminate the “excess population.”
@2 I can’t imagine a non-union newspaper paying its staff well. Maybe they just pay the editorial writers well. Or maybe Callahan is a low-paid serf who’s bashing $40k-a-year public workers because they make more than he does.
I mean, really, if you’re a state employee in Washington you and your family are living hand-to-mouth unless you’re top management. As a career state employee (now retired) I still have many contacts in various state agencies and what I can tell you is that almost all the state workers I know are retiring as soon as they can because the working conditions are so crappy and the pay is so unrewarding that they have zero motivation to stay on the job any longer than they have to. Morale, already low before the Republican Recession began, has sunk even lower. Well, you get what you pay for, and when you mistreat and underpay a workforce as badly as the state employees have been mistreated and underpaid, what you end up with is lower retention and higher costs for recruiting, training, and mistakes by inexperienced workers.
The cost of food is going to go up dramatically. Grow what you can and share with your neighbors.
Agribusiness is already going after farmers markets.
You know that unions are effective if the rich are so afraid of them that they try to destroy them utterly.
@11
When McClatchy bought the Tacoma News Tribune from the family that owned it one of the conditions of the sale was that all the union employees were to be let go. Any union worker could reapply for the job they all ready had if they wanted their job back. We had a few family friends (I was in junior high at the time) that decided to find other work rather than reapply.
Agribusiness is already going after farmers markets.
What are you talking about? Do you have links to explain is?
@10;
I’m sure they will just come up with a modest proposal to eliminate the excess population.
good reason for taxpayers not to like government employee unions. they elect Democrats who give them big raises & cushy benefits so they can pay higher dues to the union bosses who in term give 100% to re-elect Democrats so the cycle can continue all to the detriment of private sector jobs and taxpayers. this is the beginning of a real war. the wisconsin teachers have screwed themselves. they paint themselves to be high standard people while screaming vitrol at camera’s and holding ugly signs with bullseyes on the governor’s head and calling him hitler.
wisconsin governor will win. union thuggery will backfire in the eyes of the public.
A high school teacher in Little Rock has resigned after school officials learned she pleaded guilty in November to a prostitution charge.
McClellan High School algebra teacher Solona Islam, who had been put on paid administrative leave, said she resigned because she didn’t want to have the school district involved in her personal matters.
i’m not saying all teachers are whores
Carl,
Good takeaway about wages need to rise faster than inflation. Most don’t understand the concept of a rising standard of living. It is an important point that bears repeating.
Fortunately, there seem to be a lot of folks who are coming to realize they are being robbed.
This is war, motherfuckers! The sooner we understand that, the better.
These guys could use your help
Unions happen for a reason, and it’s not lockstep devotion to Marxism, as the loons at SP and Teabaggers in general seem to believe (more on that).
Just about every interaction between an employer and employee is asymmetric in terms of power. Accrete enough power on the owner/employer side and you can dictate terms without constraint. See the company towns in the coal fields and the behavior of the steel and other industries 100 years ago to observe behaviors that were tantamount to feudalism/serfdom.
The only way to counter forces like that is to organize and bargain collectively, and to support parallel unions in their negotiations/strikes with employers. The abolition of child labor, the 40-hour work week, the weekend, and the prosperity that followed the Great Depression and WWII are all directly attributable to the unionization of industrial workers.
Conversely, the stagnation of wages and income, despite massive increases in ‘productivity’ over the past 40 years, has been a result of a relentless assault on American workers, and importantly, an assault on unions and unionism. This is a core piece of the transfer of wealth upward in our society that is so corrosive and that has resulted in wealth and income distributions that mirror the 1920s. The evisceration of the American manufacturing base through the pursuit of ever-lower wages and standards via off-shoring and outsourcing has resulted in profits for the few and a crippling of the American economy and the American Dream for most.
What is our vision for the American economy? Do we look to the pre-unionism, pre-regulation period of industrialization? Do we want under-fed, under-educated, under-paid serfs – the people who rose up at Homestead and Matewan? Do we want the sweatshops of China and Bangladesh and Pakistan? (I suspect, actually, that some do)? Or do we model ourselves on Germany, perhaps the healthiest world economy at the moment – where unions are strong and workers actively participate in the management of the companies in which they work? An economy centered on high-tech, high-value manufacturing, where wage and wealth disparity is vastly less than here, and unions are a vital part of the mix.
******
As for SP, I’ve been observing the teahaddists lately, in part trying to understand what makes people like that tick. Clearly there’s a strong streak of anti-feminist Christianism, leavened with an adolescent libertarianism (resulting in Mel Gibson-ish cries of “GOD given freedoms in our Constitution!!”), a myopic fixation on “massive taxes” and “massive spending” that is ruining the economy, peppered with sniping at bus riders and others considered on the dole – but on the topic of Wisconsin lately and unions in general – that really brings out the venom over there. I mean, the statements about Marxism and ‘crushing the unions’ and myths about ‘union bosses’ and on and on – it’s incredibly vitriolic, even for them. I don’t think they’re all wealthy employers over there, but maybe I’m wrong – I think it’s more like one of the people who works in my office, whose husband is a unionized trash-truck driver – she is always making disparaging comments about his union, seemingly oblivious to what his working conditions and their income would be without a union. There’s been a wholesale demonization of unions in our society, an incredibly effective propaganda campaign, that like others, convinces people to choose sides against their own interests.
Priorities:
Bringing Home 150 Troops from Afghanistan Would Fix Wisconsin’s Budget “Crisis”
@18 Florida Republican Bob Allen busted for offering to pay an undercover black cop $20 to blow him in a public park toilet.
I’m not saying all white Republican males want to pay to suck black dick.
@23: Well played, sir!
Glenn Beck: Connect the dots! The United Nations, Google, America’s unions and the Muslim Brotherhood are all working together to establish a New World Order.
I’m not saying that Glenn Beck is crazy. Nor am I saying that people who swallow that shit are crazy.
@ 25
Glen Beck is a spitter, not a swallower.
His followers are the swallowers. They’re a bunch of marshmallowers.
Priceless nuggets of Journo Juvenilism provided by Pistol Pete.
Too many examples are found in Pierce County.
– yet fails to provide or cite them.
some union leaders have adamantly rejected pleas to reopen their contracts
– but if the shoe were on the other foot and elected officials were rejecting pleas to reopen union contracts Pistol Pete would be demanding public sector employees get their due.
Such bullshit.
Is there a meaning of “marchmallow” that I’m not aware of? Do tell.
Quit insulting Ray Charles you asshole.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union,
funny, huh?
30 – I love it. The funniest stuff often hides in plain sight.
So I’m sure the fact that the membership of the AFCSME in Washington voting to cut 3% of their pay was thoroughly covered by the TNT. I’m sure that every union bashing dick is aware of that too.
@ 28
Think of what a marshmallow is. Then think about what the teabaggers all seem to be.
Puffy, pasty, unflavored, white, sugary chunks of little substance or nutritional value. They melt when you apply even a small amount of heat, but they catch fire quite easily.
@33
BWHAHAHAHA!
Speaking of that demographic, the good citizens over at SP are all up in arms about state workers being off the job to protest – but I’ve been hesitant to point out that the only reason anyone shows up to Tea Bag rallies is that they’re all either retired or on gubmint disability.
@21 Great post.
So why aren’t the conservative freaking out that Walker is acting like Gaddafi and Castro?
I’m listening to Meet the Press. I’m marveling at the hypocrisy of the republicans.
When the republicans fought against the public mandate for health care, and voted NO on everything in the senate, that was just good governance.
When the democrats won’t bend over to Gov Walker about union busting, now that’s a travesty of governance.
Republicans are great at Double Think
I’ve been jousting with the Neanderthals over at SP, and one of them (who takes the nom-de-web of an Atlas Shrugged character) said this to me:
Sheer hilarity. I read it so you don’t have to – though my eyeballs are now bleeding.
there is a vast difference between voting “no” on something and shirking your duty by running and hiding out of state as to not allow a DEMOCRATIC vote.
would not you agree?
can you imagine the frothing by the progressive had the roles been reversed in WI? the frothing would have been EPIC!
Heh. If there was a filibuster in the WI State legislature, there’d be no need for legislators of any party to go anywhere.
The filibuster is the tool of choice for right wing Republicans in the U.S. Senate.
Extremist times call for extreme measures. This has nothing to do with balancing a budget. If Walker wanted to that he wouldn’t have cut taxes for the rich. Medical Savings accounts? Hilarious. Yet another tax break for people with money.
It has everything to do with extremist right wingers abusing power.
@17 “they elect Democrats who give them big raises & cushy benefits”
That’s utter bullshit. But then, when did a wingnut ever tell the truth? Probably the only time is when he has his buddy’s cock in his mouth and says “that tastes awful!”
@18 “i’m not saying all teachers are whores”
Maybe if Arkansas paid its teachers enough to make their rent they wouldn’t have to sell their bodies on the street.
Oh, and by the way, we all know who the buyers are — fatcat Republican politicians and businessmen.
The people of Wisconsin, who aren’t dumb, see through Walker’s transparent attack on the working class.
It’s kind of funny that Walker has provoked the kind of demonstrations we’re seeing in Tunisia, Egypt, Bharain, Yemen, and Libya.
Wherever Republicans are in charge, they turn those places into third-world countries.
For me it’s about the naked power grab of the republicans.
Spending cuts can be negotiated, but their need to strip the union of bargaining ability is critical and unacceptable.
So conservatives here, you keep harping about a balanced budget. I get that. There are lots of ways to get to that. That’s NOT the real issue.
Why won’t you talk about the stripping of the workers of their powers and rights?
Why do you think it’s OK to strip workers of their rights?
I adapted that famous saying……
“First the republicans stripped rights from a tiny group, the gays and found they could do it, and since I’m not gay, I did nothing to stop them.
Then the republicans stripped rights from a bigger group, the public unions and found they could do it, and since I’m not union, I did nothing to stop them.
Then the republicans stripped rights from a huge group, pregnant women, and found they could do it, and since I’m not a pregnant woman, I did nothing to stop them.
Then the republicans stripped rights from everyone who was not a rich white land owner and found they could do it, and I found could do nothing to stop them, for there was nobody left. “
Not that people are adverse to being confused by the facts, but Wisconsin public employees are not over compensated:
Do note that this study looks at total compensation, not just salaries.
Thank you! The far right is devoted to making this a third world country…only the filthy rich and the various working poor will exist. The fact that those in the private sector unions haven’t done as “well” as their brothers and sisters means only that we all have a responsibility to grant union members greater legal and contractual rights against those who coerce them. Shame on us as a country for not protecting our citizens!
Gotta love it! Orders for pizza to go coming in from Egypt – to feed the WI protestors.
http://crooksandliars.com/susi.....bbing-pizz
the union we need to break is the union of the kock brothers with big corporations and richy riches who hijack our political system buy politicians buy ads fool many workers then sell hogwash like “to create jobs, we have to lwoer taxes on the rich!” and deliberate fiscal crises as in WI (the deficit is solely due to a set of corporate tax breaks recently given) that are then used to puch down workers and the middle class even more. There are other unions like that run by the chamber of comemrce buying most elections and the wall street and bank locals, very powerful, they are in the midst of a strike where they are combinging to withhold credit from the nation….preiously they held us up for bailouts …this kind of thuggery must come to an end!
The worst union of all? That’s the union of the GOP with big business and the way they act in lockstep to wreck the economy and take our political system for their own selfish greedy ends. We need to bust that union big time.
The first time that I worked as an adult for wages, I worked in a co-op mill in a small town in southern Oregon.
Couple of old guys hung around. Everyone treated them with respect. Not patronizing them but listening to their advice.
Old wobblies that were crippled up in the Centralia massacre. Some did prison time. All of them seemed very human to me.
If teachers obeyed the law and didn’t go on ILLEGAL strikes, or hold their students future HOSTAGE, then there wouldn’t be a backlash. If teachers would be willing to accept Binding Arbitration, there wouldn’t be backlash. If teachers would keep their union OUT of school curriculum, there wouldn’t be backlash! If teachers would WORK with the public on MEANINGFUL education and Teacher Certification reform, there wouldn’t be backlash!
Here’s a little extracurricular reading for the antiunionists among us:
So, the question of the day is, why does your concept of “liberty” require public employees to give up their right to petition their government for grievances? Because the government also happens to be their employer?
Or, are you, as was Sergio de Castro, blind to the inherent contradiction in the claim that your notion of “liberty” requires other people to relinquish their democratic rights?
@ 51
If teachers obeyed the law and didn’t go on ILLEGAL strikes
Apparently IAFF doesn’t see the inherent contradiction between the notion of outlawing strikes and “liberty”.
@53
That IAFF member does realize, or doesn’t care, that this isn’t about the teachers’ union – it’s about all unions.
This is an attack on the idea of collective bargaining and is an attack on the totality of unionism.
This is about rolling back the gains that union members for the last 100 years have been fighting and dying for, including the minimum wage, paid time off, workplace safety, the weekend and the prosperity of the middle class.
Perhaps that IAFF member would like to do without his/her union?
Here’s what Adron Hall, software developer and transit blogger had to say over on my blog in response:
“That’s a lot of often repeated BS. Unions did some good way back in the day – but it did almost ZERO, and is a hindrance to the “white collar” work force vs. the “blue collar” work force.”
Adron runs the “Transit Sleuth” blog at http://transitsleuth.com/ . Folks should definitely stop in and educate him about his claim that unions have done “almost zero”. He can also be e-mailed at adronhall@gmail.com .
Off-topic, but I wonder where IAFF Fireman is willing to draw a line with the company he keeps. The very Galtians who want to take down unions show up here in the threads wanting to rid us of construction codes. Will we someday be reading that the IAFF Fireman agrees with them that developers should have the freedom to construct high-rise residential buildings without sprinkler systems or even rated walls?
Even the Greater Madison Chamber of Commerce thinks the budget fix goes too far. Gov. Walker and the Republicans in the Wisconsin Legislature might well have taken on more than they can handle with this.
@51: Whose side are you on?
@58 “Whose side are you on?”
IAFF Fireman is apparently not on the side of Wisconsin firefighters.
Maybe it’ll bring a tear to the eye of IAFF Fireman, as it did me, to see Wisconsin firefighters parade through the capital building of Wisconsin playing their bagpipes in a display of solidarity with the protesters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSbFceZ1-Ns
If that video doesn’t move you, nothing will.
@58 “Whose side are you on?”
Well, we know he’s not on the side of his own union.
http://www.iaff.org/11News/021711Wisconsin.htm
I’d say he’s siding with gullible and downright stupid toads.
He could more honestly present his views here if he were to change his screen name from “IAFF Fireman” to “Dumbfuck Klown”, cuz his views have nothing to do with the IAFF.
So does TNT pay sales tax on the few papers they manage to sell?
Do they pay the city for all the space their little newspapers boxes take up on the sidewalk?
What other free rides does TNT get?
Just like unions, everyone knows that regulations get in the way of business. No way high-rise residential buildings should be required to have sprinkler systems or rated walls. If people want that, then they can pay extra for them.
It’s like the Chinese cooking oil that’s mixed with sewage. We should have labeling and let the market decide if people want expensive “real” cooking oil or sewage tainted oil at 1/10 the cost. Oh wait, that’s a regulation,
If you are bored, list all the other things that don’t need regulations. Let the market decide.
Well, we could get rid of the EPA, like Republicans are trying to do. If a fish at the market is tainted with PCB’s and mercury and has an extra liver and three eyes, hell, that’s just more fish for the money. Hell yeah! Let the market decide!
Well Steve, it’s obvious that we should pay a private company to test our individual drinking water and pay a private company for a system to purify and detox our personal water.
It’s not the government’s responsibility to restrict company business to protect rivers and ground water. If individuals want change they should petition the company to change, or buy the company outright and change their processes. (Though if those changes are less profitable, they may be sued by shareholders for loss of shareholder value.)
If the air is toxic, then we should pay a private company for air filters for our house and car and buy a personal air mask and contract with a private company for tanks of clean air.
If there is hazardous waste in the area, it’s the individual’s responsibly to deal with it. Nobody is forcing an individual to live in or near a toxic waste site. They can move.
It’s up to individuals to protect endangered species. If individuals want to protect them, they should buy the land the endangered species live on and fence them in, to protect them.
Any regulation is a hindrance on business and it’s the individual’s responsibility to protect himself.
I’m with you all the way, Blue John.
When Steve’s child gets hit by a car, let him call a private ambulance, hire private investigators.
Or if his daughter is snatched from the street, he can call his private amber alert and have his private police department find her. Of course, the police are driving old beaters that haven’t been maintained properly, radios that don’t work because they are not maintained properly.
But just think, no unions, no taxes, no rules. Paradise to the GOP.
There’s going to be a rally in Olympia in support of the Wisconsin unions. Is anyone covering it?
Wisconsin’s Union-Busting Governor Has Checkered Past
Now that Wisconsin’s GOP Gov. Scott Walker has garnered national attention by provoking a popular uprising reminiscent of those in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, and other Middle Eastern dictatorships, he’s getting increased scrutiny — and here’s what we’re seeing.
1. Walker left Marquette University without a degree amidst persistent rumors that he was caught cheating.
2. While at Marquette, Walker ran for student government president, and was accused of campaign violations.
3. Walker worked in the “real world” for only a couple years — as a salesman for IBM.
4. Walker has been a professional politician since age 26.
5. Prior to being elected governor, Walker was Milwaukee County Executive; while county executive, he mismanaged county finances so badly the county was nearly forced into bankruptcy.
6. While county executive, Walker vetoed a domestic partnership bill, claiming the county couldn’t afford it.
7. Walker is a hardcore right-to-lifer on record as opposing abortion in all cases including rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother.
Walker, by the way, is the son of a Baptist minister and a bookkeeper.
MSNBC reports that Libyan jets are strafing protesters with live ammunition.
Other news about Libya:
1. Two Libyan pilots, both Libyan air force colonels, defected to Malta with their aircraft where they’ve been granted political asylum. Reports indicate they defected because they refused to fire on demonstrators.
2. Libya’s Justice minister resigned in protest of the attacks on unarmed demonstrators.
3. Libya’s U.N. delegation has distanced itself from Ghaddafi, saying they represent Libya’s people and calling on him to step down, and saying if he doesn’t the Libyan people “will get rid of him.”
4. Ghaddafi has disappeared from public view and there are rumors he’s en route to Venezuela, although that report has been denied.
I find that hard to believe. Chavez is an autocrat, but aiding / aligning with Ghadafi seems unlikely.
We shall see.
“Paradise to the GOP.”
I think it be easier for them to move to the libertarian paradise called Somalia and just leave us be.
And if Boeing ever leaves Seattle then they can damn well take their PCB’s with them.
And if Puget Sound’s Killer Whales don’t want to die young then they should vote with their flippers and move somewhere else, like Russia.
http://www.scientificamerican......ler-whales
Oh, I forgot. Scientists are all liars. My bad.
I think it be easier for them to move to the libertarian paradise called Somalia and just leave us be.
I don’t think they could handle being the immigrants.
Right on. Right-wing media has managed to turn America’s working class into self-hating laborers who feel they don’t deserve value for the work they do. The media has turned workers against themselves so that the ones doing poorly, rather than demand better, demand that more be taken from those doing well. Hell of an accomplishment, really.
@68
now you must focus on personal attacks on the governor, all of which have nothing to do with the wisconsin budget deficit. walker is simply following thru on his campaign promises, cleaning up the democrat mess created before him.
there was an election in november.
republicans trounced dems in the state assembly (both houses), governor, ag, US senator, house seats etc etc.
now union thugs from obama’s political machine are descending on madison.
the unions will lose.
obama will lose.
@79, you are displaying the “crabs in a pot” syndrome. It’s what all the conservatives here are espousing, without realizing it.
Someone they can effect, is doing better than them, so they have to be pulled down. Conservatives cannot effect the really well off, but they can help pull union people down to their miserable level.
Not lift everyone up, it’s pull everyone down.
“there was an election in november”
Elections have consequences, you now say? Sure, but apparently you believe this only applies when Republicans win.
@81. good point.
According to our conservatives here, when republicans use delaying tactics and hold protests, that’s good.
But when democrats use delaying tactics and hold protests, that’s wrong.
Typical double think from our conservatives.
@82
the same could be said about the democrats and the health care bill…
hypocrisy works both ways.
@81
your guys had total control but failed to do things you elected them to do. too bad for you.
@83. Wow. You really are willfully clueless aren’t you. Health care and every fillibuster in the senate is the delaying the republicans I was talking about.
If you didn’t raise your voice and complain about repubs, shut up about the democrats doing it now.
But it’s not about the money, that can be negotiated between rational people, it’s about the naked power grab, stripping workers of their rights. That’s why people are up at arms. Please try to pay attention.
@85
democrats have never done a filibuster?
wow….talk about clueless.
keep those partisan glasses on there big boy…
and by the way, what the democrats are doing in WI is NOT a filibuster.
perhaps you should drag your sorry ass to a dictionary and look up what filibuster means you god damned retard.
blue ball motherfucker….shit.
@86: Nice try dumbass Solomon,
You cheered on the republicans as they filibustered in the Senate- that means your comments about the democrats in Wisconsin make you a total HYPOCRITE. The filibuster is basically the same tactic as the democrats are using in Wisconsin – stall with a minority.
How does it feel to be so stoopid, and a hyporcite to boot, Solomon?
Oh, and your pathetic little arguments have been totally refuted:
1. The budget “crisis” in Wisconsin is manufactured.
2. The unions already have a compromise wage reduction offer that the “governor” won’t take.
3. The governor gave out tax breaks that more than equaled the entire deficit.
4. The legislature rushed through the bill in four days (reminder: republicans complained about the health care bill that was available, in most parts, on-line for months).
5. Wisconsin public workers make less than their private counterparts in total compensation.
So – the bottom line is that the Koch bros. financed republican governor is trying to bust the public unions as payback for his billionaire supporters. Now we know what the republicans really want – busted unions, illegal coat hanger abortions, tax breaks for the billionaires, alllowing the banks to continue business as usual (including wrecking the economy). All this talk of budget deficits is hogwash – republicans don’t really care about budget deficits, look how they fought for tax breaks for billionaires.
Ray Charles @ 79: “cleaning up the democrat mess created before him.”
There was no budget mess in Wisconsin. He inherited a balanced budget. What he did was give big tax breaks to his buddies, probably as payment for services rendered (and/or to be rendered in the future), and he’s trying to make the public sector union workers pay for them. Along the way, he’s trying to manufacture a “budget crisis” in order to justify shutting down the public employee unions.
Walker’s in a bit of trouble, now. He’s trying to split the support for the public employee workers by saying he has no plans to dismantle private employee unions. But that’s not going to work – unions have long known that their strength is in supporting each other.
Soloman @ 86:
As usual, you are missing the point (or intentionally ignoring it entirely). Democrats used the filibuster sparingly. The Republicans in the last Congress used the filibuster for EVERY SINGLE Democratic initiative. Their use of the filibuster (or Senate anonymous “holds”)was SEVERAL ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE greater than anything ever used by the Democrats.
I’m generally with you Carl, but I take exception with this last piece. There have been a lot of studies over the last ten or twenty years that prove that public employees only make more money for low-skill or low-wage jobs (in part because there are very few of them in state or local employment). Professionals and managers make SIGNIFICANTLY less than their private sector counterparts, even when you take into account all benefits (retirement, healthcare, etc.). This is part of the Republican BS smokescreen that’s used to justify an assault on public employee unions.
As for O’Callahan’s bullshit rhetoric about public employees protecting their retirement plans: public employees accept their lower wages and work restrictions in part because they have negotiated for decent pensions. O’Callahan is basically arguing that the government should break the contracts it entered into because they’re inconvenient. How would he feel if the state decided to start breaking its contracts with private companies? Or decided to revoke the publishing tax break that his paper gets to take advantage of?
He’s full of crap. Plain and simple.