The Seattle Times has the story of 41-year-old Pauline Goldmeier, who chased down a group of teens stealing her $500.00 mountain bike, eventually leading to the arrest and detainment of three of the five suspects.
When Pauline Goldmeier pulled up to her Seward Park home last week and saw a group of teens making off with her $500 mountain bike, something snapped.
She’d been the victim of a carjacking, a kidnapping and uncounted incidents of vandalism, but that day she’d had enough.
“They had no idea whose bike they were stealing,” said the 41-year-old legal secretary and mother of two. “I’ve had a lot of things happen to me, and I’m tired of it.”
Good for Goldmeier. But imagine how differently this incident might have ended had Goldmeier, as so many on the right advocate, been armed at the time “something snapped” …?
I’m just sayin’.
Good for her. You have to let thugs and punk kids know you’re not going to stand for their crap.
A wingnut? Hard to tell how they’d react.
Some would shoot first, ask question later.
Some would call the cops and abuse the officers about all the crime that’s going on while they have a donut.
Some would soil their underwear. See Senator Vitter.
Just becuase you’re armed does not mean that it’s the wild west…….
Responsible gun owners aren’t the problem.
The story here is that she nearly killed someone with her car, a far more dangerous weapon… She put more people at risk, racing around after these punks, she could of hit another child….
Call 911.
These kids are punks and should be prosecuted. However, the woman might want to actually close her garage door if she doesn’t want her stuff stolen.
According to the article, she works as a legal secretary. I think she should be the next U.S. attorney in Cheney’s district …
@2 “Just becuase you’re armed does not mean that it’s the wild west…….”
Maybe you’d know what’s going on in the world if you’d read a fucking newspaper once in a while. From Wikipedia (quoted under fair use):
“Joe Horn, 61, spotted two burglars breaking into his next-door … neighbor’s home in Pasadena, Texas. He called 911 …. While on the phone with emergency dispatch, Horn stated that he had the right to use deadly force to defend property …. He stated that he was going to go outside and confront the burglars. … Horn exited his home with his shotgun, while the 911 Operator tried to dissuade him from that action. On the 911 tape, he is heard confronting the suspects, saying, ‘Move, and you’re dead’, immediately followed by the sound of a shotgun blast, followed by two more. Following the shootings Mr. Horn told the 911 operator, ‘They came in the front yard with me, man, I had no choice!'”
@5 Unlike you, I realize one instance does not cover all gun owners…..
Wikipedia also cites ~2.5 million violent crimes thwarted by armed civilians each year….
There are bad apples, but they don’t ruin the whole orchard…
@6 Uh-huh. And what about the rightwing militias who refuse to pay taxes and make not-so-veiled threats against public officials when they’re not running around in the woods with guns playing “guerilla army” … ?
Oh, and let’s not overlook the fact that the rightwing paranoid gun nut crowd idolizes Mr. Horn, and practically every rightwing blog in the country is cheering him on and urging more of the same …
It could have ended very differently if the teens had guns…
Well as much as this is fun.
The sun is out and it’s time to have a blast with the kids….
This always boils down to…..
Most americans agree that gun ownership is a constitutionally protected right….
The left of the left don’t.
later.
re 8: VERY good point. Don’t forget, teachers must face these kinds of punks on a daily basis. They poison the well for all the other kids.
Put their miserable asses in jail ’til their 35. Oh, I forgot! They weren’t smoking pot.
re 9: Don’t forget to bring a handgun! You never know…
re 9: The Left no longer wants to disarm honest and sane Americans.
You never know when someone’s private army (Shitwater) may be unleashed on the public to ‘protect’ us.
“Aim for their heads.” G. Gordon Liddy
You say that like dead goblins* are a BAD thing?
* Criminals, as in: “Householder Shoots goblin during Burglary Attempt.”
So Goldy, are you for the 2nd ammendment, or a typical naive liberal and beleive a call to 911 in itself might save you? Anti-gun? What?
re 14: Either/Or?
@14
One of the Victims of the Tacoma Mall shootings of a few years back was a citizen with a concealed handgun who was trying to play cop. Now he’s in a wheelchair for life.
I’m not anti-gun by a long shot (hehe.. long shot, get it?), but just because you have a gun it doesn’t mean you’re necessarily safer. In the case of the Tacoma Mall shootings better gun laws would have kept the shooter buying the gun in the manner he did.
They wouldn’t have run as far.
Goldy,
I do not get your point.
The usual liberal POV is that events where a gun might be useful, including this none, are rare compared with events where the guns are misused (eg by the perps or the mad hubby).
Suppose she had a gun and card them away? Or wounded one of them. Would that be such a horrid thing?
Or suppose instead of a gun, she were carrying a gallon of ammonia or battery acid?
It seems to me that as long as we have a 2nd amendment, that the proper issues in re guns is that their control. I worry a hell of a lot more about some dumbass kid breaking onto my house while armed than Id about one of my neighbors seeing the kid and shooting her.
My gun program, when BHO appoints me guru, will be:
1. liability: if your weapon hurts someone YOU ar2 liable, a sin a car. This includes any gun sold in exception to legal requirements for registration. You sell a gun to perp, you pay his penalties too!
2. Concealment of weapons, w/o a permit, should be illegal everywhere.
3. ammunition sales should be metered and ammunition should be marked (as it is in Suisse).
4. posession of a weapon in the context of any crime involving violence to others, is itself punisheable even if the gun is registered and not used in the crime itself.
5. we should have a national identity card. Only citizens should be allowed to possess gund and any gun ownded by a citizen must be marled with a code that ties that gun to eh citizen’s identity card.
I think all of this is within the second amendment?
I ahev a harder time with assault weapons, bazookahs and tanks. As far as I can see the 2nd amendment was not emant to limit the type of weapon you coaus have.
Ten years from now, when one of these hood rats are in their mid-twenties, and are just finishing up slitting the throat of the woman he just raped after breaking into her house, will it really be such a good thing that this lady didn’t snap and take out one of these future felons?
@19
So much for innocent until proven guilty.
You can go ahead and worry about the rights of criminals. There are plenty of you. I’ll stand on the side of their victims every time.
@2
I was about to point out that cars are deadly weapons. But you beat me to it.
oh #$%@!
Did I just agreed with a right winger?
@9 Stop misrepresenting what we believe, you fucking liar. Only a tiny number of people support banning guns, and they have no influence. The “left” you refer to — and most of the public — supports reasonable gun regulations. Only the looney right thinks guns should be completely unregulated. That’s as crazy as having no traffic laws. There’s a huge difference between the “right to bear arms” guaranteed by the Second Amendment, which does not preclude reasonable regulation for the sake of public safety, and the looney right’s irrational opposition to any gun laws whatsoever.
LET ME CLEAR – ATTENTION ALL RIGHT WING ASSWIPES!
I own a gun. Deal with it!
A car is not designed as a weapon. A gun is. “But a car can be used as a weapon,” you predictably counter. Yes, but only in the sense that anything can be used as a weapon. Would you also say a mattress is a deadly weapon? Is a television set a deadly weapon?
@12 “‘Aim for their heads.’ G. Gordon Liddy”
Exactly what you expect from a fool who couldn’t pull off a third-rate burglary. If you listen to this idiot you’ll wind up dead! Anyone who knows anything about gunfighting aims for torso. The head is too small a target, and is next to impossible to hit.
@16 About a quarter of U.S. cops killed in the line of duty are shot with their own guns. And that’s people who received firearms training and supposedly knew what they were doing. The ordinary citizen has even less chance of coming out on top.
A gun is rarely the best tactical solution to a confrontation. Most people are better off unarmed. On the other hand, if you don’t mind being a dead hero …
@19 Spoken like a true rightwing vigilante. Clueless idiot: We don’t have a death penalty for stealing bikes in this country, moron! You’re supposed to leave punishment to the courts. If you don’t understand that, and apparently you don’t, you need to re-take your 7th grade civics class — the one you slept through.
26 Roger, Liddy’s famous quote came from when he was referring to how to kill soldiers and law enforcement officers, assuming they’d be wearing bulletproof vests. This is while Jimmy Carter was President and from Liddy’s point of view, it was perfectly OK to kill soldiers and cops if they were taking orders from Democrats.
@21 You’re deluding yourself by thinking you’re doing victims a favor. The last thing victims need is a lawless vigilante society. I’ll stand on the side of rule of law every time! People like you are a problem, not a solution.
@25 “A car is not designed as a weapon. A gun is.”
This is your argument for less regulation of guns than cars? Figures.
@29 If someone wearing a bulletproof vest wants to kill you and your options are limited to trying for a head shot or retreating … well … I know what I’d do.
Hey, let’s just be glad that nobody was hurt. If I owned a gun (and the little Walther .22 pistol I’ve been eyeing @ Cabela’s would be just about right for this), this card-carrying Democrat would’ve put a slug in one of their asses as a little something to remember me by. The law states that I’d have the right to do so, and I’d exercise that right.
I have no problem with guns, or people using them to defend themselves, their families and their properties with them. None whatsoever. It’s just the ones who think that they need two dozen submachineguns in the basement to defend themselves that worry me. But IMHO it’s the responsibility of government, law enforcement, manufacturers and owners alike to make sure that guns are only in the hands of legal, law-abiding citizens, who are trained in the proper use and care of their weapons. A well-trained man with a pistol or two can defend himself more than adeqautely from a group of thieves/robbers/what-have-you. All I need to see is a head for a second or two, I’m already good enough of a shot.
Face it, kids – we’d get even more people to leave the R’s if we had a simple policy on ‘gun control’ like this:
1.) Keep guns in the hands of legal, law-abiding citizens.
2.) Keep guns out of the hands of those who don’t qualify under #1.
3.) Use both hands if necessary.
Okay, it’s an oversimplification. But it’s a good place to start.
@28
They crossed onto her property line to steal from her. I wouldn’t convict her even if she ran over them with her car and killed them. And statistics show that at least one of them is going to grow up to commit more serious and violent crimes. So yeah, in my mind, it’s no different than killing baby Hitler. You’d kill baby Hitler, right?
@19
So, a 15 year old steals a bike and you somehow know that 15yo will grow up to be a murderer and rapist? How is it that you come by this knowledge?
You righties were pretty big into eugenics back in the 20’s and 30’s, maybe you missed the memo stating that eugenics had been discredited?
And she lived where…………in LIB LAND…SEATTLE!
Where Mayor Nichols still gets tax payer paid Limos with drivers every day to feel safe, but you are required to live and bus your way through the thief infested Seattle area.
Gotta love LibLand!
@35,
I’ll say it again. You can side with the criminals. I choose to side with their victims.
@37
Never said I sided with the criminals, you made that shit up.
I still want to know how you know a 15yo who steals a bike will grow up to be a rapist and murderer.
I’m not going to play this game with you. Let me bottom line it for you. I hate criminals. I don’t care what their age is. I absolutely hate them. I’m a progressive about many things. Criminal justice ain’t one of them.
Troll @ 43- would you abort a baby Hitler?
Just wonderin’
39 – Thanks for your opinion Dorki Moron aka Dori Monson.
I’m not playing a game I’m just wondering how you know that one of these kids will grow up to be a rapist, murderer or other form of hardened criminal? You said it, not me.
There’s a guy in Boston who shot out the tires of some robber. Seems this guy got sick and tired of being robbed. The cops on the scene initially said, “Good job!,” but now the district attorney is thinking of filing charges against the guy. This DA is claiming assault with a deadly weapon against Mr. Good Job!
Can you believe it? Hell, I’d give the guy a medal if I could. If there’s a very good chance a crook will lose his/her life by committing a violent crime, there’ll be fewer and fewer violent crimes.
I have no problem with a criminal getting his ass blown away during the commission of a fucking violent crime. I said so in open court during jury selection and was eventually “excused.”
Hmm…. I wonder why.
@42,
I’m giving you a homework assignment. You have one week to complete it. Then you will come back with your findings. I want you to look into the criminal records of men convicted of rape and murder in the last two years. In what percentage of cases do these felons have juvenile records for lesser crimes, like burglary?
Please do not submit a comment here again until you have completed this task.
Off Topic, but hilarious!!!
http://www.johnmccain.com/Acti.....eract.aspx
The McCain campaign is looking for trolls!!! Sign up to spew right wing talking points!
MRK, Pud, and the rest, don’t hesitate….
When you are “over there” trolling, please send a few back here to be slaughtered…..
@44
Fuck off. Answer my question. Yes many criminals start small, but many do not. Some reoffend, most don’t. There is no way of knowing if those boys who stole that bicycle will reoffend or not or how bad any reoffence might be. You’re advocating killing children based on the horribly flawed and fucked (as if advocating killing a child isn’t fucked enough on its own) up idea that a childhood bicycle thief might just grow up to be a rapist. That’s fucked up.
You need to seek some professional help. But, in doing so I’d steer clear of the Catholic Church as their priests tend to molest pre-teen boys. I wonder how many sex offending Catholic priests stole a bicycle as a teen?
@45
McCain has a link to Kos on his site and Kos has a story all about that lovely little link.
Score:
Kos 1 McCain 0
Yo mike: Yer “facts” aren’t facts. They are beliefs.
Most criminals DO RE-OFFEND. And the numbers are quite high! Especially for thieves (of ALL types: Burglars, car thieves, illegal weapons, everything and anything). The numbers are out there. Look up the DOJ.
Sex offenders have fairly high recidivism given enough time. Many may do well for a short period of time, but as the years roll by, temptation kicks in.
Within ONE FREAKIN’ YEAR, OVER TEN PERCENT ARE BACK IN PRISON. With a NEW conviction. Not re-arrested. CONVICTED!
And the trend is NOT good. Recidivism is GOING UP in the last 20 years!
Too many liberal judges. Too many bleedin’ hearts.
@48
So, are you with Troll that we should be killing 15yo kids who steal bicycles?
We’re not talking about sex offenders, we’re talking about a couple of 15yo kids who stole a bike from an open garage. Troll thinks the kids should have been shot and killed because they might grow up to be sex offenders.
Sorry, but that’s messed up.
And sorry, if every kid that ever stole something became some sort of sex offender or hardened criminal we’d have a way higher crime rate than we do today. That’s what I was talking about at #46
‘Oh and I’m Michael, not Mike. I hear a tendency to get names wrong can turn a person into a killer.
Liberal victims in Seattle deserve the crime they get. It is poetic justice as far as Iam concerned. roof roof.
Oh, and let’s not overlook the fact that the rightwing paranoid gun nut crowd idolizes Mr. Horn, and practically every rightwing blog in the country is cheering him on and urging more of the same …
05/24/2008 at 10:30 am
Damn straight. I wouldn’t feel the same if they robbed a liberal, but what the hell would they steal anyway.
@14 “So Goldy, are you for the 2nd ammendment, or a typical naive liberal and beleive a call to 911 in itself might save you?”
There are so many things wrong with this statement it’s hard to know where to begin.
A gun is useful only if it’s unlocked, loaded, and in your immediate possession. Do you pack a loaded gun everywhere you go? In the grocery store? How about in your car?
If you leave a loaded gun in your parked car, and someone breaks into your car, you’ve just put a gun into the hands of a dangerous criminal. Waytago asshole!
If you take it with you into your workplace, if I were your boss, I’d fire you on the spot. As a lawyer, I’ll say without hesitation that any employer who allows workers to bring firearms onto the business premises is asking for a gigantic liability lawsuit.
What about at home? If you put trigger locks on your guns and/or keep them in a locked gun safe, you won’t have time to get it in case of an intruder or home invasion. If you leave loaded guns laying around your house, you’re a fucking fool — especially if you have kids.
Let’s say you do have a gun when you meet up with Mr. Bad Guy. If you have military or police training, and combat experience, I’ll give you a 50-50 chance to survive. It’s not higher than that because BG probably will have the drop on you. The element of surprise will also be on his side. In a gunfight, he who doesn’t have the advantage of surprise, almost always loses.
This is kind of personal for me, because one of my law school classmates tried to pull a gun on a burglar, and paid for that mistake with her life.
How, exactly, do you intend to engage Mr. Bad Guy? One on one? The cops don’t do it that way. Neither does the military. A competent general will never launch an assault against a foe without a substantial advantage in firepower and manpower. Classic military doctrine calls for the attacker to have at least a 3-to-1 advantage in men. But that’s bare minimum and the circumstances may call for a much higher ratio. Most police departments will respond to an armed incident with a SWAT team. They never send in one cop with one gun against one bad guy with one gun. That should tell you something.
Do yourself a favor, Mark. Even though you’re a fascist traitor, I’d hate to see you get yourself killed through stupidity. So listen to my advice. Listen, guy, I’ve been there, done this crap — military trained, Vietnam veteran, lived in bad neighborhoods and know all about dealing with criminals … if you find yourself in a situation where you think you need a gun call 911 before you do anything else. If nothing else, you’re gonna want the backup, know what I mean?
Don’t try to fight one-on-one. Never give a bad guy an even break or equal advantage! I’ve had to go one-against-three and pulled it off, but I’m lucky to be here and even luckier I didn’t kill anyone that time. I called 911 first and it was the arrival of the police, not my gun, that ended the situation. It was the SWAT team, not my gun, that persuaded them to back down. And I would have had to kill them, because they had my wife and I had my 3-year-old daughter right behind me.
Now let me explain what actually happens when you point a loaded gun at a man’s heart and tell him you’re going to kill him if he does such-and-such.
First, he won’t believe you. That’s right, he won’t believe you’ll pull the trigger. Which means you’ll have to.
Second, he’ll threaten you or try to take your gun away from you. The natural human response to a threat situation is to try to remove the threat, and if you point a gun at someone, his response almost certainly will be to seek safety by grabbing at the gun. If he does, you have to shoot him, because if he gets your gun, you’re as good as dead. That’s what they’re gonna do 90% of the time, Mark — they’ll rush you and try to get the gun. They don’t even think about it, it’s just instinctive. You have no choice in that situation.
And if he does, he’s got about a 33% to 50% chance of succeeding. For the cops, it’s about 25% — they’re better trained and more experienced than you, so only a quarter of them get killed with their own guns.
Do you know what those three guys did when I pointed my gun at the guy standing 4 feet from my 3-year-old daughter? He said, “My buddy over there has a gun, too!” And the guy standing 3 feet from my wife put his hand under his coat like he was reaching for a gun. Both of those guys were luckier than they can possibly know to have lived through that night. They are alive only because I’ve been under enemy fire, and have a brain that can function under extreme stress, and a conscience that told me not to shoot until I saw him pull an actual gun. He didn’t have one, of course. He was trying to provoke me. And I knew from experience that’s what a guy who’s both very scared and very drunk usually will do. Someone more nervous than me — which is 98% of all people — would have killed them both.
As you may surmise, I’m not a big fan of people defending themselves against criminals with guns. That’s because I know too much about it.
But I’m a huge fan of calling the police. Here’s why.
You don’t have to keep trigger locks on your phones, or keep your phone away from your kids.
If someone steals a phone out of your car, your conscience will still let you sleep at night.
In most urban areas, the police will get to your house faster than you can retrieve, unlock, and load a gun.
The police are less likely to shoot you by mistake if you have a phone in your hand instead of a gun.
The bad guys can’t kill you with your phone.
Almost everyone is capable of dialing 911 and saying “Help, police!” under stress. Almost no one without specialized training and combat experience is capable of effectively defending himself or herself with a firearm under the extreme stress of a life-and-death situation.
You mocked Goldy for depending on 911 in an emergency. I’m saying to you, if you value your life enough to want to keep it, you’ll call 911 instead of pulling a gun. If you don’t, you’re not only a fucking fool, you’re very likely going to end up a dead fool.
Troll- you never answered my question about aborting Hitler. I’ll open that up to the rest of the crowd. If you’d kill a young Hitler, would you abort him? And then I’ll ask you to answer if you or any of your close friends ever committed a minor offense? Should you/they have been killed for it? Are you a parent? If your kid makes a stupid choice and breaks the law, should they be shot?
@53 I am personally opposed to abortion on moral and religious grounds. (The difference between me and our wingnut friends is I don’t believe in imposing my personal beliefs on others who may not share the same beliefs.)
I understand what you’re trying to say — would I abort Hitler knowing what we now know what he grew up to become? Hell yes!
But in the real world, looking at Baby Hitler, we wouldn’t have known that. None of us can see the future. All I would have seen was a helpless and innocent infant. So, no, I wouldn’t have aborted him. And if you wanted to, I would have tried to argue you out of it, saying to you, give the kid a chance. He hasn’t done anything.
The time to kill Hitler was not when he was a baby, but when he led a bunch of armed guys in an attempted coup against a democratically elected government. That’s when they should have hung the bastard.
The fact they didn’t cost the world 50 million lives. But I don’t need a monster like Hitler to persuade me to support capital punishment in appropriate circumstances. I’m for executing serial killers, mass killers (including war criminals), child killers, and torturers. Not just to protect society, but because the sons of bitches have it coming.
After giving them a fair trial, of course. Yessir, we should give ’em a first-class trial, followed by a first-class hanging.
“Vengeance is mine,” sayeth the Lord, and right She is! But the law belongs to you and me.
How do you trollfucks like my law-and-order liberalism? Not exactly what you expected, is it? Deal with it.
Oh yeah, one more thing — in case you get any ideas like Hitler did about overthrowing our democratically elected government and going after your political opponents: I’m armed, and not inclined to let you fascist bastards arrest me for sedition or other political crimes. Not what you expected? Deal with it.
All liberals must arm! I don’t want to do this by myself. But I will if I have to.
Roger- I write as the parent of several teenage boys. And I know they are not saints. Good kids, but nit saints. And I write as one who grew up with a number of friends, and none of us were saints.
Yes, if you commit a crime, there should be consequences. But real Christians also believe in redemption. And a bullet from a vigilante does not allow that option.
So yes, prosecute the criminal. But don;t shoot a kid for stealing a bike from an open garage.
Instead of offering recruits G.I. Bill benefits to go to college, they’re signing up thieves and sex offenders so they can afford to keep paying “private security contractors”
$150,000 a year.
When voters figure out what McCain is all about, he’ll lose every state, and Obama’s biggest margins will come from states with lots of military bases and veterans.
@57 That’s what I said way back in #28 at 2:32 this afternoon.
You know, these trolls remind me of a cartoon I saw in Playboy back in the ’60s.
The cartoon depicts a naked woman in bed and a naked man with a gunbelt strapped around his hip staring out the window.
She says, “Do you really need to wear that thing to bed to feel like a man?”
With that thought, I leave you until tomorrow. Goodnight, all.
I think we are on the verge of a trulely historic moment, when an African-American is voted president. And no, he is not a saint or perfect candidate either. But his election will change the game, and the way we look at ourselves and the way the world looks at us. And if we could survive a presidency as deeply flawed as the current, why not take he leap?
Yay, K and Roger!
@ 60- I was out in the sun for a while.
And now, to bed.
Were you spewing something Rodent? Your response shows what an ignorant mindset you have, and if in fact you really were at one time a lawyer— obviously not a good one. And yes, I am professionaly trained, licensed and legal. You on the other hand, don’t have to worry about such crimes, as being a crusty old shut-in you never have to leave the safety, sanctuary, and anonimity of your little bunny nest and your keyboard. When you enter into the real world, be sure and let me know.
I think we are on the verge of a trulely historic moment, when an African-American is voted president. And no, he is not a saint or perfect candidate either. But his election will change the game, and the way we look at ourselves and the way the world looks at us.
The only thing that will prove is that republicans (the silent majority) didn’t come out and vote and democrats are sexists.
@66 The only thing I truly want from the Great Mother Rabbit Spirit at this stage of my life is that I’ll never have to be in a foxhole with you.
Well well, here’s an interesting item from Newsweek:
“The Vote Fraud Bogeyman
“Evidence suggests that rampant voter fraud is a myth, and voter-ID laws may suppress votes rather than protect them.”
(See magazine or on-line edition for story.)
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Choke on it, mutt.
Well well, here’s an interesting item from Newsweek:
“The Vote Fraud Bogeyman
“Evidence suggests that rampant voter fraud is a myth, and voter-ID laws may suppress votes rather than protect them.”
(See magazine or on-line edition for story.)
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Choke on it, mutt.
05/24/2008 at 11:30 pm
Why don’t you try to choke on Quran if you can flush it down your throat. Man these donks keep on using their lying lefty sources don’t they. hehehehe
re 26: If it’s encased in kevlar, best to aim for the head. You know, sometimes it would not be a bad idea for YOU to think before you speak.
But I seriously doubt that you will.
re 26: “The head is too small a target, and is next to impossible to hit.”
Maybe for you. Don’t judge everyone by your skills.
re 43: If you really wanted to make your opinion a reality, you would have found a way onto that jury.
I guess blabbering on HA was more important to you.
re 62: Judge the man on his merits. Forget the ‘blackness’ part. He was raised in a white family and discoverd his ‘blackness’ on the way to find out.
Broadway Joe @ 33:
this card-carrying Democrat would’ve put a slug in one of their asses as a little something to remember me by. The law states that I’d have the right to do so, and I’d exercise that right.
I remember having this discussion with a former poster (and lawyer) by the name of Don who used to post here.
Roger did a longer post explaining the law in detail which you can find here.
You don’t have that right in Washington State. The law on self-defense here allows you to use lethal force if you feel your life or health are in immediate danger. Your bicycle? Not so much.
The reality is however that the odds of your being found guilty in a jury trial of using lethal force against a thief is close to zero.
Is there anyone else here who, like me with this issue, are progressive most issues, but have one or two issues where they aren’t so progressive? If so, what are they?
The partial storyteller Michael wrote:
Tell the whole story Michael. The paralyzed guy hesitated when he pulled his gun out. He was shot because he hesitated. Don’t know if he was a liberal or conservative and it doesn’t matter. If you have your concealed weapon and you see mayhem happening you blast the sucka and save lives! No hesitation.
Pelletizer@23: Prosecute using the existing laws on the books. Why do liberals think more laws will do any good?
RE: Body shots vs. Head shot
The proper way is a “Mozambique” – Double tap to the center of mass followed by a head shot. Even with body armor, two slugs* to the chest will stun the goblin allowing a nice finish.
* Rule 23 – Do not attend a gun fight with a handgun whose caliber does not start with a “4.”
SeattleJew: National Identity cards?
Sound so 1930s to me…
Let’s say bybygoober has a gun as he claims. Let’s say bybygoober is at work flipping burgers and someone breaks into his mother’s house and his gun is secured under lock and key in a gun locker. Somehow they rip off the gun. If someone used it in a crime, even though bybygoober’s 100% moron, I can not agree with your assessment on placing him in jail. If the gun was in an approved locker and the gun locker was locked and they used alternative means to open it, how can you fault bybygoober SJ?
Fascinating to me how many liberals now support gun ownership and the use of them for self defense against what they’re now calling “punks” – the consequences of being mugged by reality.
Reason, argument, and common sense won’t convince them, but the reality of experience seems to do the trick.
What’s next? Confiscatory tax rates soon to turn them into anti-tax rebels? I wouldn’t be surprised.
How about anti-freedom, anti-liberty Draconian restrictions on land use and property rights that pinch their own space? What was that again about a man’s home is his…what???
Hmmm…combine the three, and it creates an interesting scenario.
A liberal is nothing more than a conservative waiting to be born.
The Piper
Anybody else notice that the shooter at Folklife Festival yesterday had a License to Carry and was wearing an ankle holster.
Pelletizer@23 I call BULLSHITTIUM on this comment:
We all know that came out of the bunny butt. Of course Pelletizer forgot why John Kerry had to go hunt in 2004.
I remember this comment: “An Armed Society is a Polite Society”. If a criminal doesn’t know you are packing he’ll think twice.
Here again is another PuddyFact because Ol’ Man Pelletizer forgets what the liberals want to do…
http://www.nationalreview.com/.....081204.asp
Once again I call BULLSHITTIUM on Pelletizer@27:
Of course Pelletizer doesn’t tell the whole story. Why did the cop die from his own gun? He was overpowered by the criminal. Remember the Federal Way incident?
http://www.policeone.com/weapo.....es/100228/
Somehow Pelletizer the article said the number was 8%. Of course for Pelletizer to tell the truth on anything other than law or Sound Transit would be shocking…
Want an excellent analysis of just how dumb Barack Obama’s foreign policy pronouncements have been? On why it was foolish of him to gush about having face time with any number of international thugs and terrorists and licking their jackboots?
Check out Charles Krauthammer in this morning’s Times. The column is available electronically here: http://www.townhall.com/column.....d_a_policy
When you have someone who’s international experience is limited to ordering out for Thai food making off-the-cuff pronouncements that embarrass him you get what you get.
Rather than back off the severely cracked limb upon which he found himself self-stuck, BHO morphs his jabberwocky into a cornerstone of his campaign.
Isn’t that just special?!?!?!
At this rate, who would be surprised if he appoints Rumpelstiltskin as his chief economic advisor and advocate a massive governmental program to subsidize the eternal gold-creating quest of alchemists, all of whom have PhDs.
The Politics of Hope…Isn’t that the same theory that prompts the purchase of Lotto tickets? With about the same results?
The Piper
PS: Meant to post this on Open Thread…
I call BULLSHITTIUM on Michael in 35:
Sorry bub you are sadly mistaken. The lefties were the Eugenics heroes starting with Margaret Sanger, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sidney Webb, George Bernard Shaw, etc.
@86 Piper
If the US had not negotiated with North Vietnam, McCain would still be a POW. I seem to recall that your hero Reagan negotiated extensively with the Soviet Union and you folks brag about the rsults. Krauthammer doesn’t mention that, nor does he mention that Israel is currently negotiating with the evil Syrians. As he was with Iraq, Krauthammer is just blowing out his ass as are you.
@85 Piper, PIper.
Krauthammer???? an authority??? on what, fregin policy???
I must admit the Krauthammer stretches my liberal need to make fun of folks wiht deformities. I know he was nothacked ogether in a Transylvanian castle, I know there ar4e no bolts coming our of his neck, but … listening to Charles Krauthammer “do” politics is second only to having Bela Lugosi in the role.
As for what he says ..Krauthammer IS hard to listen to. The deep eyes and montonic synthesize4d voice seem authrotiative as Hal in 2001. BUT, who the F is he? Why would I care anymore about his drivel than that of Gary Trudeau, Al Capp, or Ann Coulter. GAK!
This essay is a good example. He claims, possibly rightly, that Senator Obama overspoke when he said he would seek t tal with the leadrship of our enemies. Clintin, of course, jumped on this. But, contrary to Krauthammer, Obama WAS supoporting a retunr to a far more su8ccessful era in American diplomacy.
Truman and Roosevelt, over the head of Chrichill, DID negotiate with Stalin and, at least in Truman’s case that effort continued AFTER our forced allinace of WW II. But loests go back to the beginnings of this country whyen Jefferson negotiated wityh the Barbary Pirates, Nixon sat down with Mao, of even GW Bush negotiated with the French!
The utter truth of Obama’s comment is that Bush’s imperialism has cost this country dearly. AS k your self the following:
1. Exactly WHAT we gian by the cuban embargo?
2. Does Obama have the skills to deal with Amadinejad mano et mano?
3. What Bushg has goianed by NOT standing up to PUTIN.
4. Exactly what threat does Chavez bear to the US?
5. Can you spell Allende?
This comment proves NoFactsWorthlessPositions@45 is as stupid as they come:
NoFactsWorthlessPositions, here is your homework assignment:
You have one week to place here on this blog where I said I like John McCain over Obama. You can not post anything else until that week is up or you find that post.
Until then you are NoFactsWorthlessPositions
@80 Puddy
You seem to conflait tow idea .. ID cards and liability for what one does with a gun. The only relationship iis that tieing a gun to an ID card would make it much easier toa ssign liability.
Returning to your buddy bye byegooper, of here is what I would assunme would happen:
1. The perp’s gun would be traced to bbg.
2. The investigation wold determine whther bbg had, as you imply, handled his weapon responsibly. There would be no crime if he had done all the things you state.
BUT SUPPOSE …..
BBG had not reported the loss?
T%he perp was BBG’s kid and had been given the code?
What I do not understand is why unregulated gun ownership os a conservative cause?
Pelletizer@52: Your memory is slipping:
So you are calling Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowski an asshole?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....un05m.html
Just checking…
Puddy doesn’t forget like HAs oxygen starved idiot posing as a dumb bunny. Oops… it’s not an act.
When you have someone who’s international experience is limited to ordering out for Thai food making off-the-cuff pronouncements that embarrass him you get what you get.
As if GWB had it any better. I remember when a reporter asked him a bunch of questions about heads of State and the guy couldn’t answer a single question. Sounds like the Pooper is saying “look what happens”! Indeed!
So Stupes, when are you going to go back home to McCain? The Pooper thinks that angry old man who flip flops all over the place is more fit for office than Obama.
Your memory is slipping:
Yeah you couldn’t remember “I am Puddybud, NOT”.
A real case of Alzheimers there. Loser.
You have one week to place here on this blog where I said I like John McCain over Obama.
It’s always about you isn’t it?
I don’t care who you’re supporting in November. Your agenda remains the same:
purveying degenerate right wing bullshit.
SeattleJew: Good try on my “buddy” bybygoober! Seems to me his politics are much much closer to you than me… :)
First you conflate the fact that bybygoober can find a woman to be his receptacle. Remember he dreams over other peoples’ wives. Rosy Palm is his be Second you assume his sperm is viable. I say it’s dead on arrival like everything he posts here. Third, a viable baby is born.
Now to the real issue. I don’t see the ID card making any difference. If we followed the laws already on the books, we’d know who officially owned a gun, and who got their Saturday night special. So if bybygoobers “child” committed the crime we’d already know the score. Either he gave it to him or bybygoober would say he stole it. Either way a goober goes down…
Krauthammer? That guy is so batshit insane it’s embarrassing.
How can anyone take that lunatic seriously?
Oh I get it. We’re talking about the Pooper here.
Ahhhh clueless idiot is awake on this fine Sunday Morn. What did jo mama fix you for breakfast?
Since you seem to forget November 10, 2006 10:00 AM “I’m leaving Horsesass”. November 10, 2006 5:07 PM Yos Lib Bro – later determined by Puddy to be For the Clueless became HAs clueless idiot.
Thanks again for playing. Each time you bring that up I’ll post this…
November 10, 2006 5:07 PM. The date you became HAs clueless idiot.
How is HAs clueless idiot today?
HAs clueless idiot: Dr Charles Krauthammer has more intelligence in his right pinky than you’ll ever possess in your whole body.
That’s why you prove day-in and day-out you are HAs clueless idiot.
Hey Stupes. You say Hillary supports Eugenics although she’s probably never uttered the word once in her public career.
Well I say you supported Bob Ney when you purveyed that ACVR bullshit. A convicted, time serving, right wing criminal.
And why shouldn’t you? The “R” was next to his name. The right wing bullshit was flowing.
“The inference was there.”
LMAO!!!!
Dr Charles Krauthammer has more intelligence
Yeah! I can’t wait till he puts Obama on the “couch” like he did to Kerry.
Fool.
Each time you bring that up I’ll post this…
You’re going to be posting it a lot between now and the right wing’s death spiral in November.
Mr. “my word is my bond”.
Mr. “I am Puddybud, NOT”.
Everytime you attack someone’s memory here. I’m going to post that you couldn’t remember your own LIES.
HAs clueless idiot@101&102:
Review post #98.
“I am an early 1900s Progressive” Heilary Clinton. Look up what they supported clueless idiot.
Yes, HAs clueless idiot, you know all about lying.
November 10, 2006 proved it BIG TIME
Yes HAs cluess idiot, attack me for providing truth and clarity to the insane arguments from lefties like you…
Go ahead and make my day…
Piper @ 85
If the issue is “unconditionally” meeting with the President of Iran, then why all the talk of “appeasement”? Your goal posts are moving, and that doesn’t make for a cogent argument.
Moreover, the problem with Krauthammer’s argument is that he begins with a straw man–not surprising, since that’s the general modus operandi of right-wing pundits.
What Obama said in the July debate is, almost word for word, what former Secretaries of State James Baker and Henry Kissinger said just this past March.
Interesting how Barak Obama is “naieve” but two elder statesmen with real foreign policy experience are not.
@88…Steve…
Churchill had Stalin pegged – Roosevelt and Truman allowed him to sucker punch them. Yalta was a sell-out of Eastern Europe condemning those countries to nearly 50-years of slavery.
What did we gan by not talking to Fidel? The question is better phrased: What did Fidel not gain by being isolated. You need to read Krauthammer’s column more closely, expecially:
Because BHO is an un-seasoned idealist who believes in the power of his own rhetoric, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will have him for lunch since his vision of Armaggedon is a perfectly acceptable means to an Islamic. BHO’s naivete is hand in glove to that end.
Bush v. Putin is a rabbit hole – a false comparison.
Hugo Chavez looks to be Fidel’s successor as the fomenter of Latin American discord and hostility toward the U.S. That he controls a lot of oil gives him leverage Fidel never had. But he doesn’t have Fidel’s sophistication and superpower umbrella under which to seek protection. Bottom line: he’s a thug.
Had Salvador Allende stayed in power in Chile, that country would be as much poverty stricken and third world as any in Latin America. He was just another one of Fidel’s HeyBoys doped up on the opium of Marxist-Leninist foolishness, an ideology that has credance today only in effete intellectual circles, American college and university faculty lounges, and among the HA Happy Hooligans, which include The Darcy’s brain distrust.
To claim that BHO seeks return to traditional American diplomacy is to misunderstand the complexities of traditional American diplomacy.
As the Kraut pointed out, when JFK tried a BHO stunt with Kruschev in Vienna in the early days of his administration, it lead to all kinds of troubles.
And to acknowledge that he misspoke then allege that his misspeaking is a return to traditional American diplomacy is subliminally to contend that traditional American diplomacy is but a series of misstatements.
Orwellian, that, eh what?
As an aside and on guns and the government…Remember that the Bill of Rights, which includes the Second Amendment, was meant as a check on the government, not a check on the rights of citizens.
Anyone who trusts the government not to eventually find a way to interfere with your rights deserves all the grief that comes their way. If you don’t believe me, just watch how the turd-blossom bureaucrats in Olympia constantly look for ways to evade open governmet laws and obligations.
While government is necessary to maintain freedom and liberty in an ordered society, severely unchecked and constantly mistrusted, government will creep its way to eviscerating the very freedoms and liberties it should be protecting.
Today, we live in a culture where government claims not the duty to be a servant to the citizen master, but master and better to the hopeless, helpless, and hapless citizen who would be lost without the guiding (read oppressive) hand of government.
When government has information on the tools of our freedom, then government can take them from us. Would you like government to track every public statement you make? Every letter to the editor you write? Your every blog post?
We allow government too much access to our personal information, yet many seem gleeful to cede even more to government. I do not understand this at all.
Government must be restrained, checked, limited, and fully answerable to the people. No one in his right mind would contend today that Seattle, King County, or Washington State governments could be categorized as such.
Government has no business knowing how many weapons I own, that I own weapons at all, where I keep them, or what lawful purposes are their use. In this regard, government is the enemy, not friend.
The Piper
attack me for providing truth and clarity
I make fun of you for one reason only: right wing bullshit. If you think Scaife, Moon and Murdoch funded crap is “truth and clarity” then you are totally whacked out batshit insane.
Look up what they supported
So you think guilt by association is “truth and clarity” as well. You’re such an idiot if you believe anyone but your own fellow right wing clowns are going to buy that.
When government has information on the tools of our freedom, then government can take them from us. Would you like government to track every public statement you make? Every letter to the editor you write? Your every blog post?
Uh pooper. That’s what your beloved right wing neo-cons in power are doing RIGHT NOW.
You’re so divorced from reality it’s truly sad. Everything that flows through your head, I’ve seen printed in right wing tracts.
There goes that tape again….
Piper @ 109
I have to commend you for providing a clear example of why the conservative movement in this country is dying a horrible death. By espousing an ideology predicated on the fallacy of the excluded middle, by denying government any role in solving the problems we face, you are left with platitudes that both fail to acknowledge the problems that do exist and fail to provide any policy ideas capable of addressing those problems.
Conservative ideology is bankrupt, and I think it’s time we stop sacrificing the lives and livelihood of people at its altar.
Conservaties are stupid. They think Ahmadinejad runs Iran. This is why they cannot be trusted with America’s security.
Conservaties are stupid. They think Ahmadinejad runs Iran. This is why they cannot be trusted with America’s security.
05/25/2008 at 12:05 pm
Who else is there??? If you entrust democrats for your security you don’t deserve to be secure. Just ask all the crime victims in large cities.
@95 Puddy
The problem is I take YOU seriously but avoid most of the soap opera here.
So as far as I aconcer54ed, BBG is an unkonw character in the play you are part of.
As for the exisitng laws, you miss my point. I amk NOT talking about simply regulating who can buy a gun. I am talking about regulating the reposibility of who owns one. Owning a car, for example, is far more onerous in the US than owning a gun.
As for the anitonal ID, that issue is aprt of a much bigger one. There is an obious fix to the illegals issues .. no job w/o prrof of identity. A national idnetity card would close the immigartion magnet overnight.
JBD – The crime rate has started to go UP under the republicans. As far as security – it is the republicans who were opposed to putting more police officers on the street and who waste our money in Iraq.
http://democrats.senate.gov/dp.....-110-1-103
re 112: It’s also time we relegate Milton Friedman’s economic theories to the garbage can as well.
“Let huge corporations do what they please, give rich people more money, and we’ll all be better off!” Milton (the ‘tard) Friedman.
And to think that he won a Nobel Prize in economics for that! Well, he really didn’t, since there is no Nobel prize in economics.
re 109: Ever heard of the 7 sisters and Truman. Check it out. Now you have something to really blame a Democrat for — except, I think you like oil monopolies. It fits with your twisted idea of what competition is all about.
Churchill had Stalin pegged – Roosevelt and Truman allowed him to sucker punch them. Yalta was a sell-out of Eastern Europe condemning those countries to nearly 50-years of slavery.
And what porey tell would Mr. Churchill have doe? Go to war with the USSR? And who do YOU think wouyld have won that war?
Instead, during tise same 50 years Truman’s policies led to the creation of the EU.
As every seasoned diplomat knows, the danger of a summit is that it creates enormous pressure for results. And results require mutual concessions. That is why conditions and concessions are worked out in advance, not on the scene.
Hmmm .. and CK is a seasoned diplomat???? Who esle is seasoned in theis way … GWB??? Condie Rice???
Read Brezhinski and Kissinger, see how happy these guys arw with Bushism.
What concessions does Obama imagine Ahmadinejad will make to him on Iran’s nuclear program? And what new concessions will Obama offer? To abandon Lebanon? To recognize Hamas? Or perhaps to squeeze Israel?
Wel, that proves YOU should not be President. Somehow I supect Obama is .. well say .. a bit brighter than you? or Bush?
Because BHO is an un-seasoned idealist who believes in the power of his own rhetoric, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will have him for lunch since his vision of Armaggedon is a perfectly acceptable means to an Islamic. BHO’s naivete is hand in glove to that end.
Gosh, you are an adhernet of Adhminejad and all this time I thought he was a malfunctional fanatic!
Piper, you are out of your league. First of all, the getcha game of prsidential campaigning is a huge problem. Look at McCain trying to wiggle out of bed with the niut right and announce hos version foa timed withdrawl from Iraq.
OTOH, anyoje domb enough to want to g to war wiht Iran ought to volunteer for the new American death squads.
Hugo Chavez looks to be Fidel’s successor as the fomenter of Latin American discord and hostility toward the U.S. That he controls a lot of oil gives him leverage Fidel never had. But he doesn’t have Fidel’s sophistication and superpower umbrella under which to seek protection. Bottom line: he’s a thug.
Chavez is to thig as Romsfeld is to ____.
Chavez is to thuig as Predient Hu is to ____.
BTW, Cuba has not had superpower support fomr anyone but us for over twwnty years. Why are you so frightened of them?
Had Salvador Allende stayed in power in Chile, that country would be as much poverty stricken and third world as any in Latin America. He was just another one of Fidel’s HeyBoys doped up on the opium of Marxist-Leninist foolishness, an ideology that has credance today only in effete intellectual circles, American college and university faculty lounges, and among the HA Happy Hooligans, which include The Darcy’s brain distrust.
Hmmm … tell that to the social denocratic governments on Germany, Sweden, Israel, France, ….
BTW, do you have some odd idea that China is NOT a Fascist state?
To claim that BHO seeks return to traditional American diplomacy is to misunderstand the complexities of traditional American diplomacy.
And YOUR authority on this matter is who ..Bill O’Reilly? Charles Krauthammer, Cindy Rice?, GWB???
t the Bill of Rights, which includes the Second Amendment, was meant as a check on the government, not a check on the rights of citizens.
Not quite. The bill of Rights was added to the Constitution as a way of assuring that the Hamiltonian (conservative) government, would not take too much power.
The Bill also deal with the issue of dictatorship of the majority. BTW
While government is necessary to maintain freedom and liberty in an ordered society, severely unchecked and constantly mistrusted, government will creep its way to eviscerating the very freedoms and liberties it should be protecting.
As in efforts from the right to redistribute we4alth to the wealthy, enforce religion, prevent the organization of unions, spy on the citizens, restrict the rights to education as envisaged by Franklin, Adams and jefferson, etc.????
Would you like government to track every public statement you make? Every letter to the editor you write? Your every blog post?
Nope, one reason I am an Obamite is the horrible efforts of the Republicans to do just that.
We allow government too much access to our personal information, yet many seem gleeful to cede even more to government. I do not understand this at all.
We will be happy to have your vote.
<
Government has no business knowing how many weapons I own, that I own weapons at all, where I keep them, or what lawful purposes are their use. In this regard, government is the enemy, not friend.
So, as long as a terrorist (Timothy McVeigh) is a citizen, he can build a nuclear biomb?
@112…DJ…
Government doesn’t solve problems…people solve problems.
I believe that people who are free to develop their own solutions tend to develop better ones than people who must do so within governmental constraints.
I trust the private sector far more than I trust the government.
As to policy ideas? I talk about them all the time, but because they aren’t taxpayer funded, governmentaly controlled and administered, and premised upon the erosion of our freedoms and liberties, they routinely get ignored by the HA Happy Hooligans.
The Piper
Piper @ 121
Restating the platitudes using different words does not improve your argument, which is still predicated on the fallacy of the excluded middle.
Consider:
I trust the private sector far more than I trust the government.
Is there any reason we need to trust either of them?
SeattleJew: I was out enjoying the day with the wife. Worked on my suntan…
Anyway I understand your premise. I just don’t agree with all of it. Sure you need to determine how one got the gun, but I don’t agree with ID cards.
Sorry dude.
clueless idiot: Seldom do you post anything here except from the left-wing warm sticky man-made kool-aid sites.
warm sticky man-made kool-aid sites.
Yeah, that describes the Moon, Murdoch and Scaife funded sites you are addicted to..
Hmmm. Moon, Murdoch and Scaife.
Sounds like one of those lobbyists outfit that runs Madman McCain’s campaign!
When are you going home Stupes?
So what you’re armed. They going to come after you with at least a 3-1 advantage, to say nothing about the fact you will be caught off guard. By the time you get to your gun, unlock it and load it you will be just another dead bunny rabbit.
Deal with that.