Hmm. After Dino Rossi’s lawyers had their asses kicked in a Wenatchie courtroom, I seem to remember the mouth-breathers in my comment threads mentioning something about political payback… a voter revolt that would sweep us evil, election-stealing Democrats from power.
So… how’s that revenge thing going for you, guys?
Ron Sims 14-point victory would suggest, not so well… but then, given the “hard core leftist base in Seattle,” I suppose that’s not really a fair measure, is it? So, since Initiative 912’s backers aggressively urged voters to send a message to “Queen Christine”, enthusiastically adopting Rossi as their mascot, I thought it’d be interesting to do a little (u)SP-like comparison.
The following table shows results from the 12 counties in which Rossi drew his strongest support, and compares the percentage of the vote Rossi received in 2004, with the percentage of the vote I-912 received in 2005.
| County | Rossi | I-912 | ||
| Adams | 68% | 61% | ||
| Benton | 68% | 58% | ||
| Grant | 68% | 61% | ||
| Franklin | 67% | 63% | ||
| Columbia | 66% | 59% | ||
| Lewis | 65% | 62% | ||
| Lincoln | 65% | 64% | ||
| Garfield | 65% | 59% | ||
| Douglas | 65% | 58% | ||
| Chelan | 64% | 56% | ||
| Yakima | 64% | 55% | ||
| Walla Walla | 63% | 48% |
All but Lewis County are located in Eastern Washington, and in each county, I-912 drew less support than Rossi… sometimes substantially less. Walla Walla actually fell into the No camp, giving the initiative 15 points less support than it gave Rossi.
So what does this say about voter backlash in Eastern Washington? There wasn’t any.
Even as the returns started coming in early Tuesday night, and the numbers still looked close, I heard a Republican consultant on KUOW saying that I-912’s passage would be a huge blow to Gov. Gregoire, crippling her ability to lead the Legislature. So given that level of expectation, and given the clarity in which the “send a message” message was delivered statewide, the relative lack of support for I-912, even in the most Republican leaning counties, sends a message of it’s own: the 2004 election is finally over.
Christine Gregoire is governor, and her reelection prospects in 2008 will be based mostly on how well she governs. And the fact that she could lead both a majority of the Legislature, and a majority of the people, to support an inherently unpopular gas tax increase, is a pretty damn good start.
Goldy,
This is pathetic, the issue was defeated, no move on to how the state gets fixed….
The answer is. . .just check the DOT website,silly.
The election was three days ago and prr wants you to “move on.” That’s pretty funny coming from someone who is still fixated on someone who hasn’t been president for five years. In that spirit I therefore suggest all the wingnuts who want to bring up Clinton every time the current occupant of the White House is criticized to MOVE ON.
“This is pathetic, the issue was defeated, no move on to how the state gets fixed…. ”
It’s not pathetic. You morons were so gleeful that Gregoire was going to be crippled by I-912’s passage. Now that you didn’t win, you want to move on? Too bad, sucka! We’re going to be talking about this vote until the cows come home! We’re going to remind you again and again that you were WRONG. There is no tax revolt. There is no backlash against Gregoire. It’s all a myth!
Good to see all the classless democrats acting appropriately
Gregoire has demonstrated true leadership from the begining by getting the transportation bill through the legislature and eventually getting the voters to support the major attack on it last Tuesday.
She has also demonstrated a pro active inclusive style when it comes to moving the state political agenda forward. Refreshing after 8 years of Gary Locke’s wuzzy bunker mentality style of leadership. She is on a small winning streak and if she continues
in this vain she may one day be seen as one of the more effective Governors we had in recent times.
You’re right, prr. We should all move on. And for all you repubs who we need more assistance, I suggest you might look here for advice on the matter: MoveOn.org
easy there BJ.
You are right, this past election has been an overwhelming victory for Democrats, not only in this State but Nationwide.
However, surrendering to Al qaeda, followed by wearing a dress and getting used as a prison bitch really is not the answer.
prr, speaking of prison bitches, I wonder how Libby will do?
Okay, Governor Gregoire has expended enormous amounts of her political capital on defeated the 9.5 cent gas tax repeal of I-912. Now the voters are going to expect Gregoire to DELIVER.
The most significant project by far in I-912 is the Alaskan Way viaduct replacement. $2.0 billion of the money is supposed to go to that. It was a major reason why I-912 was defeated — voters were scared into believe that its replacement was URGENTLY needed, because an earthquake could happen, take it down, kill lots of people, and horribly disrupt traffic, etc.
But let’s look at the official WSDOT website for more information on the Alaskan Way viaduct replacement project:
What is the project timeline?
2006. Supplemental draft environmental impact statement release. Determine construction phasing approach.
2007. Final environmental impact statement release.
Preliminary design complete.
Utility work begins.
2008. Contractor selection.
2009. Major construction begins (assuming funds are available).
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/Viaduct/
Yep — THAT’S RIGHT. Come November 4, 2008 — NOT A DAMN THING WILL HAVE BEEN DONE ON THE ALASKAN WAY VIADUCT!!! And the voters will realize this. They will have been paying the higher gas tax for three years — with the final 1.5 cents of the tax hike taking effective on July 1, 2008 — and (assuming an earthquake doesn’t topple it by then) the old dangerous viaduct will STILL BE THERE and no construction will have taken place.
On top of that, when construction is finally slated to begin in 2009 (assuming that doesn’t get bumped back further), it is supposed to take at least SEVEN to EIGHT years. Voters are going to be awfully pissed off by then, especially since a couple of hundred million will have probably already been spent on consultants, etc. by that point, with no construction accomplished.
So my prediction is that the gas tax increase will come back to back Gregoire in a major way come November 2008.
For the record, prr, despite how I loathe 99 percent of his comments, was very gracious in his first comment after the election returns.
I have a similar question to everyone. Now that the bad dream of 2004 is finally over, what is Gov. Gregoire’s plan? True tax reform seems off the table until she is re-elected. We’ve seen hints of “good government” type of initiatives like the ideas she took from Giuliani’s book but that is an “about time” kind of thing and Gary Locke actually got the ball rolling on the government efficiency front.
I heard that 100,000 people will migrate to Washington State per year through the remainder of this decade. That means extra burdens on the education system, public safety and everything else. This state cannot move forward with higher quality education, public safety and infrastucture without an improved revenue stream. Maybe the time for true tax reform is now but it won’t happen until moderate Republicans break with the extreme “anti-tax at all costs” wing of their party and reach across the aisle for the betterment of all citizens of this state.
An income tax like that of over 40 other blue and red states means lower taxes on small businesses and lower property and sales taxes. WE NEED IT.
Goldy—-
EXACTLY the spin I expected from you CLOWNS.
Current SOS numbers show:
STATEWIDE(incl KingCo)===== I-912 is defeated by +91,835
KINGCO ===== I-912 is defeated by +110,325
Other Counties (combined)== I-912 PASSES by +18,490
Gregoire and the MSM claim STATEWIDE SUPPORT????????
Bullshit!!
Plus there was an incredible amount of Republican Business interest support on defeating I-912 out of desperation to do SOMETHING! These folks will NEVER vote for Gregoire in 2008. NEVER!!! And when the folks STATEWIDE (incl KingCo) see that nothing improves the next 3 years….that this is a bait-and-switch list of projects…..and it is clear that this 9-1/2 cents was a drop in the bucket and they want much, much more……GREGOIRE WILL PLUMMET!!!!!!!!!!!
The anti-912 folks & Gregoire OVERPROMISED!!!! And will be held accountable in 2008.
Clueless: Ah….according to Iron’s 1 Million over the next 10 years….according to Sims only 300,000 over the next two years. At least that’s what he said during his Carlson interview last week.
Easy there Cynical…
You may want to check that conservative barometer.
There are a lot of pissed of people looking for a change.
Locally, the last minute BS pulled by the republicans party was out of line and caused a hell of a lot more harm than people are giving it credit for.
I have always held the Republican Party in high esteem. However, the unfounded accusations of in-elligible voters in king county were pathetic (not to mention the similar accusations against felon voters in the Rossi case) , this combined with the national antics of the Republican Party is going to cause plenty of people to cross party lines in the future.
I am not saying that liberalism is the way to go, but I think all of us shoud start thinking in Non-partisan directions. Quite Frankly, if the 2005 election made this statement, just think of what is going to happen in 2006, let alone 2008.
For The Clueless @ 11
Tax reform will never happen with Washington’s current political dynamic. The Democrats don’t really want it, and the Republicans are opposed to it.
Democrats in this state have much support from the very wealthy than do Republicans. So they will support increasing the regressive sales tax (just like the soundly defeat 1 cent increase in I-884 attempted in 2004) and highly regressive excise taxes (liquor, tobacco, soft drinks, etc.). No real desire for an income tax — in fact not a word about it in their 2004 platform (which, at the same time, took bold positions on hot-button issues such as favoring same-sex marriage).
freeloaderartist@6
Gregoire DISAPPEARED on I-912 until the $3 million to defeat it worked it’s magic. What leadership specifically are you talking about??? The fear-mongering regarding the AWV which won’t start construction until 2009???? And then take 7-8 years????
I’ll bet it doesn’t start until 2011….the LEFTIST PINHEADS will spend years and billions arguing about the ridiculous TUNNEL of LOVE….that pads the pockets of Seattle’s elite developers like Paul Allen.
Watch the bait-and-switch….it’s coming.
Start the projects….the HUGE tax increases to finish them.
The only thing is, the next round of HUGE tax increases will be defeated. Then Gregoire will have half-finished projects to explain. It will be clear by November 2008 that Gregoire massively overpromised and mislead voters. She will be defeated by Rossi or McKenna.
Richard Pope @ 14
At the risk of sounding like the other glib posters around here – you are making my point.
When it comes to such a big step as an income tax – POLITICS MUST BE OFF THE TABLE.
The legislators who make an income tax happen must turn a deaf ear to their traditional special interests – they must want to do the right thing.
If the political dynamic is not right then it must be changed and for something like this the only way to change it is probably from the grassroots.
I think the people of Washington State will be willing to trade lower taxes on property, sales and business income for an income tax. I think they are willing to TRADE THE MOST UNFAIR TAX SYSTEM IN THE COUNTRY FOR THE FAIREST.
Finally here’s an appropriate use for an initiative: if the politicians won’t put politics aside and deliver a fair tax system, THEY’RE OUT OF JOB.
FOLKS, LET’S MAKE IT HAPPEN.
It is a true sign that the Repugs have flipped their lids when a post from Richard Pope (@ 10) looks like a post from ne of the nuttier TROLLS, Mr. C-I.
Once again the right wing turds have had their azzzes kicked. When they try to spin they claim that ONLY losing by 14 points, their guy made a great showing.
Just keep deluding yourself girls. You can continue to make a “great showing” just so long as you don’t win and we keep Washington free of your cowardly, in-bred, moronic beliefs.
Governor Gregiore showed she is incredibily strong and the progressive movement has shown that the traitors and cowards on the right need to take their dildo and go home.
Mr. Cynical Irrelevant CLOWN:
Gregoire wisely stayed out of the limelight because of the woman-haters that frequent the Republican party. She didn’t want to risk provoking a “Hillary” type reaction that would get them out of their barcaloungers and to the polls.
It worked.
I-912 was really designed for ratings for KVI.
People on the air are really hard up for ratings…they run for governor, sponsor dumb (costly) initiatives, etc.
Guess their ratings continue to sink….so expect even more craziness in the future…
Clueless @ 11
While Gregoire paid lip service to the whole Giuliani concept (called “GMAP” in WA), something got seriously lost in translation. Unfortunately, they have the fox guarding the henhouse and the PROGRAMS THEMSELVES determine the success metrics, not the number-crunching folks who actually have an idea of what is truly relevant.
Another PR stunt was the fact that they were going to RIF 1,000 government “middle managers” in the name of efficiency. Problem is that those folks are “managers” in title only. Most, if not all, of them are professionals who were brought on in a NON-UNION position so that they could be paid a private sector salary for their private sector experience. Again, it looks good in the newspaper, but not everyone being cut is inefficient, redundant or bad at their work.
As for I-912… I (along with other Republicans) voted against it. We clearly need road funds and my bigger complaint was the BS way they put the tax in place (and Gregoire’s No New Taxes pledge during the campaign).
As for you Lefties (Goldy included) who thought it was some major defeat of GOP “message sending,” I suggest you get a life. A small, vocal segment of the pro-912 crowd may have been saying it a sales point, but that’s it. Also, I have yet to see where there is a major political SHIFT based on this election. Yes, the Left won a lot. The problem is that historically, people want Dem local leaders and GOP on the national level — the whole “mom and dad” thing. The GOP definitely needs work — especially in WA — but it is far from dead.
LeftBehind @ 18
Please point out where there were any unexpected results in the WA elections. Ignore the posturing by the partisans and truly show me. If Irons had won, it would be touted as a “stunning upset” by the local media.
About the only thing you Lefties can point to is the fact that the momentum of Rossi’s “statistical tie” didn’t translate to improved results in the following election. What’s worse is that a lot of that can be placed squarely in the lap of the WA and KingCO GOP monkeying around.
Don’t delude your self. KingCo didn’t suddenly shift from a “red” or even “purple” county. As they say, “move along, folks. There’s nothing to see here.”
Say, do you notice something about that E. Wash. Rossi vote? How uniform it is? That it’s within a percentage point or two in all those counties? Makes me wonder if the results weren’t pre-arranged … if the fix wasn’t in ….
@1
“move on to how the state gets fixed”
Let’s start by live trapping prr, neutering him, and relocating him to a GOP Troll Sanctuary.
Mark @22,
I never said the GOP was dead. However, I do think the GOP leadership had its head up its ass when it thought it could ride the election contest controversy to victory at the polls.
All I’m saying in this post, is that I-912’s relatively weak performance in Eastern Washington shows absolutely no evidence of there being any kind of voter backlash against Gregoire or the Dems. Chris Vance should stop relying on Stefan’s comment threads to get the pulse of public opinion.
me @ 23
Guess that is now “LeftBehind @ 19”
(BTW, what is it with the Lefty profanities and scatophilia?)
Goldy @ 26
“I do think the GOP leadership ha[s] its head up its ass… Chris Vance should stop relying on Stefan’s comment threads to get the pulse of public opinion.”
I pretty much have to agree with you on both of those. And, as I said above, I don’t believe the average 912 voter (pro or con) even considered it a referendum on Gregoire.
I’ll go you one better and say that Vance should step down.
The one and only true Mark (former journalist):
I assume you voted for Eyman’s audits so everything should be just fine now right?
And even if Eyman didn’t pull through, there a little something called citizen’s oversight (and the Republican party) so if Gregoire crows about something that’s not real, she pays the price. No?
Gregoire has not raised B&O or property or sales taxes. She’s raised sin taxes and the gas tax to meet long standing needs including some that were requested through citizen’s initiative.
And what would you have her do? Sit on her hands and do nothing and give Dino ammunition for 2008? Again, she doesn’t need your advice.
Until we have a sane tax system in this state, “stuff” like this will happen.
We’ll see about the GOP on the national level. You may be right if the moderates revolt and the Bush/Rove/DeLay/Frist crowd is booted out – as they should be.
I suppose @8 represents prr’s idea of a graceful concession speech.
prr said “This is pathetic, the issue was defeated, no move on to how the state gets fixed…. ”
What? I-912 fails miserably and we’re not allowed to talk about why that might be, or what it means?
Give me a break.
prr @ 8, lol you MUST be talking from experience, right? Thought so…….ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
a moderate republican revolt would be great! If it doesn’t happen, I still think the party is goin’ down tho’.
They can’t handle the combination of scandals from leaders they refuse to repudiate, and a Left thats finally gotten its own head out of its ass and is showing real political activism.
I’ve said it before, Mark, and I’ll say it again. Your whole premise is based on the democrats ‘relying on backlash’ or ‘coasting’… And theres no evidence of that happening. I think (hope) that Gregoire ’04, Gore ’00 and Kerry ’04 campaigns are a thing of the past.
prr said “This is pathetic, the issue was defeated, no move on to how the state gets fixed.”
Maybe you should tell that to the transvestite thug Steff at PUSoundPolitics. Steff can’t seem to get over this bone crushing loss. The wailing, crying, moaning and rationalizing of the right is TRULY funny.
“The wailing, crying, moaning and rationalizing of the right is TRULY funny.”
All part of the double-speak. To lose is to win. To speak is to spin.
Steffie needs to get off the dime and tell the generous donors who paid for his lawsuit against KCRE whether he’s going to share the judgment proceeds with them, or keep all the money for himself.
To all you conservaties:
YOU ARE LOSERS!
Grow up and stop with your free lunch conservatism.
GBS–
The FREELOADERS are the arrogant Bike-riding crowd unwilling to pay their fair share and watch as GasTax is milked away to pay because BIKERS won’t!!!!!
BIKERS====Free Lunch Crowd
My pal Roger Rabbit even has that one nailed!!
Actually, now that you guys have what you want I am going to sit back and enjoy watching the Alaskan Way Viaduct become Seattles “Big Dig”. Remember, you guys cannot even handle a Monorail extention without massive cost overuns!
Wingnuts and BUSH-DAVIDIANS:
I hope you remembered our brave men and women in uniform today.
Check this out!
re 1: There’s always a little more time for gloating and rubbing your nose in it.
richard @10, So after the anti 912 people said over and over that the gas tax is not really about the viaduct (although that needs to be replaced) or the 520 bridge, now that the election is over you are shocked, shocked I say to find out that the gas tax is not about the viaduct or the 520 bridge?
Further, the day before the election you crowed about the Governor not showing leadership by not actualy spending any time on the anti-912 campaign but today she spent political capitol to defeat it?
You know, it occurs to me that you are not worth bothering talking to. There clearly is nothing that you would find acceptable, and you really only type to see your name at the end of a post.
This is hilarious reading republican pretentions that they didn’t lose! Their manipulative, deceitful propaganda to keep GOP rank-n-file freaked out and bitter never ends, as George Bush Jr plays ‘fear & smear’ politics on Veterans Day. You can bet that fool trick is gonna backfire, says this veteran. Eat shit, George Bush.
These LEFTIST PINHEADED CLOWNS really have their tits in a ringer this time.
Unfortunately with most of Seattle’s EDUCATED IDIOTS, it takes them a few years to realize their tit is in a ringer!!!
After a few years of pain & agony, they will finally recognize their tit is stretched out like GUMBY!!!.
But rather than admit they are wrong, they will pretend that they did a great job…..but the real problem is folks are greedy and need to cough up another 15 cents per gallon GasTax.
All you can do now is hold WSDOT, Gregoire and the anti-912 crowd to their campaign rhetoric.
Did any of you see any improvement in traffic congestion TODAY???!
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
I didn’t. It appears it is worse!!
DAY 1—-The 9-1/2 Cent GasTax Watch for improving traffic congestion. FAILURE!!!
WSDOT will be so forced to show some improvement that I’ll bet they eventually open the HOV Lanes!!! And use that to take credit for shorter commute time!
Seattle LEFTIST PINHEADS==Lenin’s USEFUL IDIOTS===CLOWNS!
I didn’t see any improvement in traffic congestion today….anywhere.
Day 1—-Traffic Congestion Relief Vigil
Looks like the easterners stayed home. They figured that King County would steal the vote again.
It seems Mr. Cynical needs anger management
Hey, Mr. C. –
Keep up the good work/vigil. Everybody needs a hobby.
Curious George @ 48
“Keep up the good work/vigil. Everybody needs a hobby.”
Amen. And now he has a hobby that won’t degrade his eye-sight!
This blog is where Mr. C sublimates ad infinitum – sad.
Just go for it Mr. C and turn your personal life around. And the guilt will go away and you can retrace your madison roots.
The leftist machine in King County grow stronger evry day. The Gregoire mess energized a committed voting bloc which will ge good for a generation. NONE of us will ever fail to vote again.
Hillary will be President.
Of all the assets any candidate might have – only she has Bill. Alone he can raise 250 million. Lot of money in the Dems because they will all shell out the 500. – 1,000
Hillarys secret weapon is Bill. And I suspect Jimmy who is grooming for the big fight.
New poll, if the election were today – Bush looses to any number of Democrats by a wide margin.
I wonder if many of the Evangelicals have gone back to waiting for the second coming, far more fun than politics.
Law and order Scooter might not fare too well in prison….I think punked out is the term.
Let’s put this into context. Yesterday, I filled up my California rental car at an Arco gas station in the Anaheim/Tustin/Irvine area at $2.45. I come home to Everett, and pass an Arco gas station and they are at $2.51. It’s a sad day when we pay more for gas than in the LA area with their pollution control blends! This is what the King County donks voted for. Higher gas prices than Californians. I think when these transplanted Californian donks go back to visit their families for the holidays, view gas prices, there will be brain pause: “Wait a minute, my gas is more expensive at home now!”
What? Huh? Did you say something Rudy? Bush loses to any number of donks? Earth to Rudy… Earth to Rudy… Bush is not running again! Who cares that some MSM donks put out a worthless poll. You get all worked up in a slobbering lather absorbing a poll that has no meaning!! Keep drinking the Jim Jones Kool-Aid!
Puddybud @ 51
“This is what the King County donks voted for.”
Correction: this is what a majority of voters in the state voted for. It wasn’t just KC…there were nearly 1/2 million voters outside of KC that voted against 912.
Likewise, it was not just “donks” who voted against the intitiative. There were many independents and Republicans who could not support I-912.
‘Higher gas prices than Californians. I think when these transplanted Californian donks go back to visit their families for the holidays, view gas prices, there will be brain pause: “Wait a minute, my gas is more expensive at home now!’
And then they will remember, “Oh…that’s right, I pay the lowest state income tax rate in the country (0%).”
In fact, if they checked out their total state & local tax burden at the Tax Foundation, they would learn that Californians have, overall, a slightly larger State & local tax burden.
Washingtonians have a burden of 10.0% which ranks as the 24th highest burden in the country. Californians have a burden of 10.3%, which is the 20th highest burden in the country.
I haven’t heard nor seen any speculation as to how the 912 vote may have been affected by I-90 getting closed off by a rockslide just two days before the election. The tally in Kittitas County might be particularly indicative.
dj@53—
The fact is, the majority of the state outside of KingCo voted FOR I-912!
Yes, KINGCO is part of the state….
But for the Big Tax-and-Spenders to characterize NO on I-912 as having statewide support is quite on overstatement, don’t you think???
Unless you don’t mind letting the actual facts get in the way of a good myth??
@55
“The fact is, the majority of the state outside of KingCo voted FOR I-912!”
Not to worry, they’ll continue getting their King County gas tax subsidies anyway, thanks to King County voters.
Cynical @ 55
The fact is, the majority of the state outside of KingCo voted FOR I-912!
If only KC is excluded, the statewide vote was 50.996% in favor of I-912. In other words, for 100 randomly selected people outside of KC, we expect 51 of them to vote for and 49 to vote against. Pretty fucking close to even, wouldn’t you say?
But, to paraphrase someone earlier (RR, I believe), land doesn’t vote, and neither do counties or compass directions. The people of Washington State as a whole, soundly rejected I-912.