[NWPT48]After yesterday’s tedious exercise in tediously following the election contest trial, I think I’ll just occasionally update this post with tidbits and observations as they come. Tonight I’ll post a summary and analysis of the days events.
“The Trial of the Half-Decade”
I believe it was originally the AP who called this “the trial of the century”, which I suppose isn’t saying much considering we’re only five years into it (the century that is, not the trial.) So it is no surprise that the trial is getting wide media coverage, especially in WA state. Many of you have probably read the coverage in the Seattle Times and P-I, but I also recommend the fine political reporting of Brad Shannon in The Olympian. (I’d probably also recommend the reporting of Rich Roesler, if The Spokesman-Review didn’t require a paid subscription for me to read it.) All of the MSM pretty much had the same take on the day’s events, though the award for best lead sentence goes to Ken Vogel of the TNT:
In a significant rhetorical and strategic shift, Republicans dropped the “F-word”
who’s the dead lawyer they’re talking about this morning?
Late last night I was reviewing the days events, and began thinking about when and why the Republicans decided to re-focus their case so heavily on fraud.
Could Ms. Way’s and Mr. Fell’s statements really have changed the case? I don’t think so. At its worse, this could be painted as a conspiracy to falsify an administrative document, but doing so has no effect whatsoever on the number of ballots counted. They would really have to pull the wool over the eyes of justice by arguing election fraud from “administrative misconduct” in the post-voting procedures.
“It must have been when they realized their ‘proportional analysis’ was dead in the water,” I thought. But when, exactly, was that?
I was thinking that the May 16 deposition by Professor Katz must have been very disheartening. He found himself defending his analysis as “conditional on the data.” He could not defend the suitability of the data, and did his analysis without knowing about or questioning how the data were collected.
Perhaps it was after May 12th when they digested the statements by Professors Handcock and Adolph, both of which shredded the GOP expert witness statements on methodological grounds. Maybe it did not really sink in until their depositions on the 19th and 20th (last Thursday and Friday) that the Republicans realized that they were going to lose on the statistical arguments.
As I listened to the GOP opening statement, I got the impression that the shift in the Republican case to an emphasis on fraud was a move of desperation—grasping for anything that might give them a win.
What I could not reconcile, however, is how they think they could win on an eleventh hour election fraud case with nothing concrete whatsoever. All they have is a lose collection of errors that easily falls within “ordinary election error” in the grand scheme of a large election, or “stupid human error” when errors are examined individually. I though the GOP lawyers were being completely disingenuous in claiming that their “fraud” case has always been there because of ineligible felons voting, people voting on behalf of dead people, double voting, and administrative errors. As lawyers, they should know better—election fraud is a very specific crime that does not simply arise as an emergent property of numerous low-level, but disconnected, illegal acts.
If the GOP lawyers ever thought they had a case to build around fraud, why isn’t it reflected in their discovery documents, and, indeed, the investigations conducted to support their case? I was convinced that Rossi’s lawyers were now desperate after an eleventh-hour realization that their statistical case was lost. (Never mind that some of us here at HA realized that the statistical case had significant methodological holes for well over a month, and the statistical case was lost for the GOP shortly after May 6 when the Democrats submitted their own list of felon votes).
Suddenly, it struck me that there is an alternative interpretation that makes the Republicans out to be much smarter. The GOP is trying to lose the case, but they want to lose it in a very particular way. The $4? million dollars invested in this case by the GOP is a giant campaign to lose the contest in a way that gains maximum public sympathy right now, ensures a Senate seat in 2006, and turns WA into a red state over the next decade.
To succeed in this, Bridges must jettison the fraud case on a technicality (as seems likely) so that John and Jane R. Public are outraged and John and Jane D. Public feel just a little guilt because Rossi got a raw deal. After the fraud case is shut down, the GOP lawyers will need to ensure their statistical case is rejected before any combined analysis is done so that it appears that Rossi, again, has gotten the shaft. Their final message to all Washingtonians is that Rossi won the election, but lost the challenge because the entire state government (judicial branch included) is in the hands of a corrupt Democratic party. So, that is my Rovian alternative to “the GOP Lawyers are incompetent idiots” hypothesis. Maybe I was being a bit paranoid last night—who knows.
OK. Prediction time again. How long do you think this trial will last before it goes to the supreme court?
Personally I have no idea. But it looks like it is going to be a long summer.
For once I have to disagree with you, Goldy. I don’t think it’s possible for Vance to prevaricate during coitus. I think Vance has never been laid in his entire life. (Who wants to fuck that fat stupid slob?) And this would explain a lot of things, wouldn’t it?
PROUD @4,
What… you don’t think Vance ever lies to himself?
FWIW, my breaking post on Bridges’ denial of the fraud motion,
here.
hrmm–not surprisingly I suppose, Goldy and I come to the same conclusions on it. Since mine is 12 minutes later than his, I guess I should confess to plagiarism. :rolleyes:
torridjoe,
I meant to say yesterday, that I very much enjoy your summaries.
In light of my post @ 2, I am elated that Judge Bridges is bending over backward for the Republicans. I want the Republicans to have their case go entirely their way, as I am reasonabally confident they will still lose.
So, Chelan county auditor is on the stand talking about ballot handling standards. Chelan county had 29,618 votes compared to KCs 899,199 votes. That is, they handled only 3.2% of the number of ballots in the same amount of time.
thank you dj! For the most part I enjoy writing them.
TJ @ 1
that’s Don/Alan/sux/cybil/thatprick
The Republicans have only four days to present their evidence, and this is how they’re going about doing it? Since ballot stuffing is now the heart of their case, I suppose at some point they’ll present evidence of actual stuffed ballots, right?
That’s because there is no such sexy evidence. Only “it was mess on election night wasn’t it.”
Actually the Chelan Auditor was a brilliant move. They have the same DIMS system and got it right. Yes, they do have many fewer voters, but King Country also is a richer county. In fact the per capita wealth of King County if many magnitudes greater than that of Chelan county. Therefore King County should have and more than enough recources to pull this off correctly. They didn’t. Fraud perhaps?
Reply to 5, yeah I think he lies to himself. I think he jacks off with a piece of raw liver and tells himself he’s fucking Madonna. I think he lies to himself about some other stuff, too.
Comment on 6, it’s not plagiarism if you both thunk of it at approximately the same time. I’m sure the wheel had more than one inventor. This ruling is less complicated than the wheel, and Judge Bridges didn’t have to think about it for several million years.
Comment on 8, I agree, let the Repubs have a full airing of their inane arguments before dropping the shoe on them. Then they wing-wackos can’t say they didn’t get their day in court. Well they can, and they will, but nobody will believe them except their fellow chimpanzees.
I tuned in yesterday to KVI to hear you Goldy. As somebody who never listens to Hate Radio it was a rude shock. Now I understand where all these people are coming from. They listen to KVI all day and then watch Faux News, no wonder they are so out of touch with reality.
Carlson and Stefan (sp?) were saying that the Republicans must have a case, otherwise they wouldn’t have spent $2 million so far. Now that’s real logic.
Kind of like When the President Talks to God
Reply to 10, Don is dead alright, but Alan is very much alive (he’s touring Third World countries right now, trying to learn something about government that we don’t know yet), and so is thatPrick (who will be back on this board as soon as he gets done taking a piss).
Comment on 11, how about stuffed green peppers? I’ve been trying all morning to think of what to fix for dinner. Thanks for the idea.
Pudding Brain Jerkoff @ 12
Or anti-tax voters who are too cheap to pay for:
1. Bridges
2. Road maintenance
3. Enough election staff to handle 1 million votes
4. Vote counting machines that work
Postscript to 19
I forgot to mention King County voters are too cheap to pay for schools, too. They have plenty of money for sports stadia, though.
From SP: “Foreman: Have you ever had more votes cast than voters? Would that be a problem? What would it mean if you did?
Arnold: No. Yes. “It’s easy to accidentally run through ballots twice… It happens. that’s why we do the reconciliation… If you don’t have the number you’re shooting for, you could make a big mistake”
First, Arnold says no, they have never had more votes than voters. Then she says running through it twice happens (I watched…she implied happens often). And she said it happened before she put in new procedures…but earlier she said it never happened.
Hey, Conspiracy? LYING? FRAUD in Chelan County? First, no, then in the same testimony YES!
Isn’t there a law against perjury? Cleary, she lied once and told the truth once. Hey, Rs, what say you? Perjury under oath! Shouldn’t she be impeached (ala Clinton) and convicted of perjury (whereby her voting rights would be removed)?
Comment on 16
Geez David, you’re brilliant! You’ve hit on an insight that has been eluding me for over two years! Here it is:
“If we spend $300 billion fighting a war against Iraq, they must have had WMDs.”
PBJ @12 – Ooo, ooo – Can I try out Republican logic?
Let’s see… I wanted the Sonics to win the playoffs. They didn’t, but it must have been fraud! Now we know that it is tough for someone to make an off-balance, fade-away three point shot over Tim Duncan, BUT Ray Allen have vastly more resources and talent then a normal person and should have made that shot. Therefore, the NBA must have cheated and the Sonics are World Champions!
Prick@19,
Or maybe if you didn’t spend $300,000 on space age public toilets, give free housing to drunks to have drunken parties or give away valuable real estate to billionaires you’d have enough money for those things.
Funny how they manage to find money for boondoggles like Sound Transit and whatever the thing of the week is for Paul Allen. The resources for doing it properly are definitely there in King County. After all, aren’t you Democrats always arguing that King County carries the state with their tax revenues?
Comment on 21
Thomas, it’s not against the law for a witness to be ignorant, ill-informed, or just plain stupid. I don’t think Arnold’s testimony is criminal perjury, I merely wonder what in hell she’s babbling about. This sounds like a person who has never seen ballots counted by Opti-Scan machines. Here’s how King County does it:
1) The ballots are in a box.
2) The box label says how many ballots are in the box.
3) The OptiScan machine has a counter on it.
4) When a machine operator finishes a box, a supervisor checks the numbers.
5) If the number on the counter is different from the number on the label, the count isn’t used and the box is counted again until the numbers do match.
Now would one of you wingnut trolls please explain to me how you can stuff ballots through a counting machine and get away with it?
Goldy—
So glad you can see today as a huge win for the Dems.
Evelyn Arnold is highly respected by ALL County Auditors.
She is CPA who understands the importance of both internal controls and ballot accounting and reconciliation processes.
I see your argument is KingCo has 30 times more volume…therefore they can justify lacking in these areas and intentionally and knowingly prepare false reconciliation documents to concile that. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?????
Goldy–if the high volume realistically causes reconciliation problems as you allege………….then WHY DID THEY GO THRU THE EFFORT TO CONCEAL THE PROBLEMS?????
Isn’t that a fair question???
Why did they conceal if something was justifiable?????
It’s always the cover-up that does ’em in, isn’t it???
(by the way, cover-ups know no political boundaries).
BIG SURPRISE!!!
How does it feel to be rope-a-doped thatPrick????
Go ahead and spin away…..
The Judge will end up being most swayed by the “cover-up” attempts in KingCo. If it ain’t important, why cover-up????
I’m so pleased thatPrick can spin today as such a HUGE WIN for the LEFTIST PINHEAD hovel of manure.
Are Dems saying?
Yes small town republicans can count and reconcile their little county. However the superior democratic King County with significantly more resources is much too complex and too big to properly reconcile, but don’t worry, everything is OK after this was a model election.
If, as many, including Reps., allege, this whole fraudulent lawsuit thing is about shaping public opinion and not about truth and fair elections, then Dems. must IMMEDIATELY start referring to the considerable statistical evidence that proves that the black box voting machines are rigged to throw elections to Reps. This is not a crazy unproven allegation. In fact the statistical evidence is so preponderant that it is virtually undeniable.
dj @ 2,
I have a different opinion of the Katz depo. I think the Dem attorney did a terrible job, and clearly didn’t understand the subject. I may have missed something in the transcript since it was so hard to read on my computer, but he did not pin Katz down on the lack of support for his “homogeneity” assumption, i.e., the assumption that the felons were a random draw from the precinct pool. I think a skillful questioner could have made Katz admit that there was no basis for making that assumption.
As I said before, I believe that the GOP is entitled to cherry pick its felon votes, and then its up to the Dems to respond. So I don’t think the admission by Katz, that his analysis was conditional on the data hurts the credibility of his method as a means to apportion the felon vote that was identified by the GOP.
Granted the Dem experts did do a good job of attacking the “homogeneity” assumption in their reports, which unfortunately were very difficult to understand for a lay audience.
All of this may be quibbling since the felon vote won’t win in for the GOP. However, if Judge Bridges accepts the proportional reduction method for the 7-900 alleged “improper” King County provisional ballots fed thru the accuvote, maybe the GOP will be able to prove its case.
Let’s see… I wanted the Sonics to win the playoffs. They didn’t, but it must have been fraud! Now we know that it is tough for someone to make an off-balance, fade-away three point shot over Tim Duncan, BUT Ray Allen have vastly more resources and talent then a normal person and should have made that shot. Therefore, the NBA must have cheated and the Sonics are World Champions!
Sweet. And remember, Tony Parker is a cheese-eating surrender monkey. Those conniving French people are always behind the downfall of this great state…
PoonTang–@30
If that were the case about the voting machines…why didn’t the Dems make it part of their Court Case???????
Cuz: They can’t prove it!!
You are really desperate now douchebag.
It’s TOO LATE for you to make this allegation, isn’t it.
If this is the very best you can do in the PR battle, you are doomed!!!!
When did I get rope-a-doped? By whom? Certainly not you. I’ll get around to you, but let me answer pbj’s question. He was in line first.
Pudding Brain Jerkoff @ 24
First of all, you guys need to decide what my name is. Prick? or thatPrick? I can be two people (actually I can be an infinite number of people), but not at the same time.
Let’s see you build a bunch of vandalism-proof, theft-proof, SaniCans for less than 300K. You want the contract? Contribute to Greg Nickels’ campaign, and its yours.
The point of the SaniCans and free housing is so the drunks aren’t peeing on the sidewalks and mugging passersby, dope. We’re doing it for our good, not their good.
Please feel free to get rid of freebies for Paul Allen. While you’re at it, get rid of Paul Allen. And get rid of Greg Nickels, Sound Transit, and the board of Sound Transit, too. Why stop there? Let’s get rid of the Monorail Project board and management, too. I’m with you on all of those.
Gee I almost forgot you, Mr. Cynical. It must be because you’re so inconsequential. Why aren’t you over there in Wenatchee with your BIG BINDER? The Repubs desperately need you (or anything else they can lay their hands on), because it’s Hail Mary From Their Own End Zone time for them. Where is this Big Surprise when they need it most? Why are you holding back? I thought you were on their side???
Well, I have a suggestion. If there’s nothing in your Big Binder, then get back to work turning the crank on your washing machine and feeding them $100 bills through the rollers.
The Repub lawyers deserve to get paid simply for putting up with their clients.
Harry @ 30
That’s a separate lawsuit. This lawsuit is pending in King County. It was filed by Everett attorney Paul Lehto against Snohomish County and alleges the latter’s touch-screen machines were rigged to stuff the box for Rossi. We’ll see.
Goldy–
The Republicans don’t need to “make Huennekens look incompetent, and most importantly dishonest”.
Huennekens is doing a most excellent job of that on his own.
Give a LEFTIST PENCIL-NECKED GEEK ENOUGH ROPE and the inevitable happens.
Huennekens is wilting…and dragging his boss Dean Logan into the quagmire with him. Goldy this is awesome!!!
The R’s have enough “campaign material” from this trial already to make a huge dent. Good-bye KingCo. The rest of the state hates you. Cheaters & liars…….
Why did KingCo cover-up the lack of reconciling absentee ballots if it wasn’t that important???? WHY???????
Goldy–
Can’t wait for your spin on Kirby Wilbut today.
Are you also going down with the ship???
My mistake, actually I don’t think Lehto is alleging stuffing, and he certainly doesn’t have to prove stuffing to win his lawsuit. Lehto is trying to get the $5 million contract between Sno County and Sequoia Voting Systems voided on the grounds the software secrecy provisions violate the voters’ rights, and also on the grounds that its unconstitutional to delegate control of the vote counting to a private company.
Dimbulb @ 37
“Why did KingCo cover-up the lack of reconciling absentee ballots if it wasn’t that important???? WHY???????”
King County didn’t cover it up, Way and Fell did. The answer to the “why” is they’re a pair of bureaucrats practicing CYA to protect their own jobs. That isn’t an official act by King County, that’s an individual act by them.
is it even a coverup? It’s nothing sinister–the number they needed simply wasn’t available, so they relied on what they had. Is that a failure of procedure? Very possibly. Is it a cover-up? I don’t see how.
It’s such a joke when discrepancies are automatically treated as FRAUD–without any evidence whatsoever, and not following policy is automatically treated as COVER-UP–again, without the slightest bit of evidence in support.
chew2 @ 31
I don’t agree with your evaluation of the Dem lawyer. You don’t waste deposition space or the judge’s time on things that are obvious, because that incurs unnecessary expense and pisses off the judge. A competent lawyer starts with what the judge already knows and proceeds from there.
joe@40,
Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel good. Smells like fraud to me.
Reply to 40, you’re right TJ (as always). I guess I got lazy and used Cynical’s term because I was typing in a hurry. My bad. I do know better. Whatever comes out of Cynical’s rear-end is bound to be poo.
Reply to 42, smells more like idiocy to me. Idiocy by Way and Fell, idiocy by Foreman, and idiocy by Cynical and you.
pbj @ 42
thankfully, smell is not one of the senses generally used in court. If you have no evidence to make your claim anything other than fanciful speculation, put a lid on it or go peddle your dreams elsewhere.
Cynical @37,
Um… are we watching the same testimony? It’s on WTV, not Court TV.
Now perhaps I’m a bit better informed on these issues than the average person, but I didn’t learn anything today that we haven’t already learned from existing court documents and other sources.
dj makes way too much sense – political sense, that is. Pushing a losing cause for sympathy is akin to losing battles but winning wars. Nobody in their right mind would think this case can be won.
And if it’s won, what is won? Not the Governor’s Mansion. Just a re-vote. I still want to know which oracle has decreed that Rossi would win a re-vote? Let’s say he wins the case and thereafter loses a second election, this one by a wide margin. The case of the century produces the political turkey of the century, Dinno Rossi, the only man to ever lose the same election twice!
The other Washington is where the real war is. Nothing short of secession [that’ hyperbole :-)] is going to keep this Washington blue if the whole government is seeing red. Rossi winning a senate seat wold be very symbolic and would give the GOP one more die-hard right-winger whose vote could be counted on.
Maybe paranoia is contagious…
Check out how Diebold is resisting the implementation of a paper trail on their voting machines. The only question I have about that is : WHY? For more information on this issue check out blackboxvoting.org
You’ll be glad you did because you’ll have lots of ready made talking points as this issue unfolds to bend the obtuse minds of our Rep. opponents. As they’ve been so ready to remind everyone of late: numbers don’t lie.
This is a little off topic but not entirely so. Someone sent me this, and I thought it was cute enough (and instructive enough) to post on HA. There’s hope for you illiterate righty trolls who can’t spell — we can read your bullshit anyway! This explains why.
“Don’t delete this because it looks weird. Believe it or not you can read it. I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid. Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer inwaht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the
olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas thought slpeling was ipmorantt.”
Dan B @ 47
For the record, Dan B, Judge Bridges has authority to award the Governor’s Mansion to Rossi but does not have authority to order a revote.
Too bad a revote is out of the question, because you’ve coined a terrific phrase: Dino Rossi, political turkey of the century, loses the same election twice. I like it! :D has a nice ring to it.
Joe@45,
Evidence? Like dead people voting, felons voting, more votes than voters, electins officials ADMITTING to falsifying reports.
Yup. FRAUD!
Prick@49,
Made me laugh!
Reply to 51, hmmmm then why does Judge Bridges say there’s no fraud element in this case? Do you know something he doesn’t?
More likely, he understands the legal definition of “fraud” better than you do.
More likely, he understands the legal definition of “fraud” better than you do.
Goldy’s new puppy understands the legal definition of “fraud” better than he does.
Gotta love libs dissing the Chelan election. King county i’ll bet has proportionally more people working the election returns than Chelan. Yet Chelan gets it right. And i’ll bet other large counties get it right too.
Of course if its size of electorate that screws up the election, i say split the county, or keep it the same and forbid all the illegals, felons, dead people and ghosts from voting.
Of course if its size of electorate that screws up the election, i say split the county, or keep it the same and forbid all the illegals, felons, dead people and ghosts from voting.
Don’t forget the zombies.
chew2 @ 31
Wow! It is incredible how two people can take such different readings from Katz’s deposition. The most damaging part, IMO, is that it showed the Republicans just handed him the numbers, asked for the analysis, and more or less left it at that (i.e. there was no discussion of the suitability of the data to support the result). That makes Katz’s work look really shoddy by the standards of his own profession.
IF Bill says they have all the absentee ballots, why don’t they just count em to come up with a number! I suspect it is because the number would not even be close to what they certified it to be! Er in this Model King County Election!
Wouldn’t Writeoff be a more fitting moniker for a wingo?
@55
Nice totaqlly unsupported supposition, righton!
hows this:
“I bet that every person in chelan county is an elections worker, thats why they have such an easy time of it.”
55
“King county i’ll bet has proportionally more people working the election returns than Chelan.”
Instead of guessing why don’t you research it and get back to use when you have FACTS.
58
If that’s so, I would think the GOP would want em counted!
pbj @ 51
those are not examples of fraud, either by necessity or reality. And none of them represent official fraud, which is the only thing that counts in court.
righton @ 55
“Gotta love libs dissing the Chelan election.”
WTFAYTA? (See, Patrick, sometimes you only need the first letter :-) ) I didn’t read any condemnation of the Chelan election. I’ll add one here, though: there were 21 ineligible ex-felons who voted there, for a rate of 0.0007 (compared to KCs 0.0009 ex-felons per ballot). Shit happens, oh righteous one.
“King county i’ll bet has proportionally more people working the election returns than Chelan. Yet Chelan gets it right.”
I don’t know how many, but the problem is more than the number of people. Time is a limiting resource. KC has 30 times more voters, but the same amount of time to get everything done. Sure, you can hire more people, but that means more training. And whenever you have a small army of employees, you end up with a few more lousy employees who make the job of aggregating results up to the county level even more difficult.
“or keep it the same and forbid all the illegals, felons, dead people and ghosts from voting.”
Well then start with Ferry, Grant, and Yakima Counties—they all have a higher rate of invalid voters than does King County. KC had 899,199 votes cast, and we remove 1050 ineligible ex-felon and other invalid votes and that leaves us with 898,149. Gee. . . that will make the process more manageable!
GS @ 58
Congrats! You’ve hit on a central failing of the GOP’s case. If there truly are more absentees than voters who supplied them, it should be fairly simple to count them. And since it’s on them to show they ARE NOT equal, why didn’t they?
Hmmm. . . Clark Bensen is the witness that the Republicans wish to call to support the GOP observation that there were excess ballots per “voter” in pro-Gregoire KC precincts and too few ballots per “voter” in pro-Rossi KC precincts. Supposedly he is not going to offer expert testimony (and count on the Dems to hold the GOP to that).
Clark Bensen is the person behind Polidata (http://www.polidata.org/). Polidata is the place where the precinct-level data from about ballots cast and invalid voters came from. Katz and Gill both mention this in their documentation.
If Bensen is a Republican witness testifying that KC numbers are suspicious (i.e. smells like fraud), I wonder if this casts any doubt on the numbers he provided to the Republican expert witnesses?
Ya’ll dum dims..
goldy wrote, Today, the R’s continued their strategy, by putting Chelan County Auditor Evelyn Arnold on the stand to explain the right way to conduct an election. At least in a county with 30 times fewer ballots than King County.
So i think you were saying its unfair to compare KC screwups w/ a little county. I countered that I’ll bet size of population is offset by adequate or proportional workforces monitoring.
I think you all are arguing that incompentance is expected and good.
Are you all WEA members?
Joe@63,
Deliberately falsifying a report in order to deceive is definitely fraud. And Judge Bridges did say that could be brought into evidence.
Queston to bank teller, “did you know the amount you claimed to deposit was incorrect” “sure, me and my boss discussed and agreed it was easier to fudge the numbers”
Person fired. Next.
dummy@67:
You’re still pulling a proposition out of thin air that you have no evidence at all support. Prove your point, and you’ll have some basis for arguing, but we can’t even discuss when you’re making crap up.
and you’re changint what you said a little… the comment (italics are mine) was:
“King county i’ll bet has proportionally more people working the election returns than Chelan.”
Deliberately falsifying a report in order to deceive is definitely fraud. And Judge Bridges did say that could be brought into evidence.
Yes, but it’s only electoral fraud if you can prove that it was deliberately falsified in an effort to fix the election. It’s very possible that it was falsified simply to cover up individual incompetence.
pbj @ 68
he said it could be presented as evidence–but not in order to nullify the election based on fraud.
righton @ 67
Then why the fuck did you claim libs were “dissing the Chelan election”?
“So i think you were saying its unfair to compare KC screwups w/ a little county. I countered that I’ll bet size of population is offset by adequate or proportional workforces monitoring. “
We are. Size, alone, is not the only factor. Other factors:
1. Time is fixed for both counties, but KC has to get 30 times the work done in that interval.
2. KC has to allocate more people to the task. The training, management, and oversight task is MUCH greater for KC.
“I think you all are arguing that incompentance is expected and good.”
Then you are an idiot. We are arguing that errors are inevitable, and that KC has a much bigger burden per election than CC has.
Goldy—
Not bad–
You and Stefan both did a good job of presenting your take on things. I actually enjoyed listening to both of you banter back & forth. Perhaps tomorrow John Carlson can stand back even more and perhaps give you guys an extra 5 minutes or so.
Your delivery was much improved…a couple times you got a little excited and wanted to jump in which is ok. It makes for a better show than some bland deal where you both read off a script.
Congrats to both of you!
Cynical @74,
Oh no… Cynical complimented me… I guess that means I sucked. Now I’m afraid to listen to the clip. (Or I could take you at your word… hmmm… I’ll have to think about that.)
Goldy–
I understand why you would take pause when I compliment you (which I have done numerous times previously).
But let me make one thing clear DIPSHIT, I didn’t say I agreed with you!! I just said I understood your point and you delivered it decently. That’s all.
So don’t let the adrenilin get you too pumped up.
You are and always will be a LEFTIST PINHEAD.
You kinda grow on us folks who are RIGHT…like we all kinda feel for the ugly redheaded stepchild.
Frankly, I think you and Stefan could do a very entertaining 1/2 hour show with a good moderator (Carlson & Kirby would do fine if they step back). I could actually listen for 2 hours to Stefan…it’s you Goldy that I could only tolerate for 1/2 of 1/2 hour!!!
That’s as close to a compliment as you are going to get from me!
Oh Goldy–
I do have 1 more compliment for you–
Goldy, you aren’t as stupid as you look!
Have a good evening…start spinning!
dj
So you mean if you had 2 people to run a small airline and i had 20 to run a 10x larger airline, you’d always get stuff done faster?
Ridiculous to claim that size causes bad results.
How about size plus incompetancee leads to fudging results …?
And how come Chelan didn’t send homework ballots to its poll workers?
dj–
The more you try and defend & excuse KingCo’s election performance…the worse it gets in the court of public opinion.
This trial has long-range consequences….and you guys are doing a stand-up job of giving the R’s ALL the material they will ever need for elections the next 4 years.
The first thing to fall will be the Gas Tax.
Next, the Senate and perhaps the House.
Will the Governor’s seat fall too???
Stay tuned.
“This election is a model for the rest of the nation and world at large.”
—Christine Gregoire, soon-to-be 1st former Illegitimate Governor of Washington State
righton @ 78
It’s not ridiculous at all–using voter credit discrepancies, I validated quite strongly that the rate of errors in that category is in fact a function of total ballots.
Scale creates difficulty.
And good God, I crap you negative–that is EXACTLY what Huennekens just said from the witness stand as I was typing this.
Huennekens is hardly a good source for election “difficulty”. What else would you want him to say? What can he compare it to (oh yeah, freshman year at the UW, studying Atmospheric science)
righton @ 78
“So you mean if you had 2 people to run a small airline and i had 20 to run a 10x larger airline, you’d always get stuff done faster?”
WTF kind of analogy is that? My point is that there was a finite time period during which ballots were cast, tallied, and the accounting done before certification. The task is made more difficult by the time constraints even given the same number of workers per ballot.
“Ridiculous to claim that size causes bad results.”
Or, not.
“How about size plus incompetancee leads to fudging results …?
How about, you are an idiot!
“And how come Chelan didn’t send homework ballots to its poll workers?”
What the fuck is a “homework” ballot, you moron?
Mr. Cynical @ 79
“The more you try and defend & excuse KingCo’s election performance…the worse it gets in the court of public opinion.”
Geez. . . I didn’t realize there were that many people listening to me!
82
They did not account for absentee ballots and let ballots go out the door w/ poll workers. Go read it yourself.
Airline analogy: how come Alaska can board its flights the same as Air Whidby Island; its cuz each hires enough people to do the job AND trains their staff. Or McDonalds serves me food just as fast as my Mom does; McDs has like 1mm people or 30 per store, my Mom is 1 person….get it?
Goldy asked: “It appears the Republicans are as intent on killing time as they are on killing Bill. At some point, they’re going to present some actual evidence, right?”
ANSWER: When a lawyer and their underlings coach a witness to say specific things that don’t match the deposition, the opposing lawyer gets into official court transcript record the question reasked, the “new” answer, and the original deposition answer. It seemed to me that Bill had the “Ted Mack and original memory lapse hour”. When the Supremes read the trial proceedings and read the laziness of Huennekens answers, it will be enlightening!!!!
Pudster
dj–@83–
It’s not just you…it’s the Democratic Party “talking points”.
I just don’t think it is playing well when average folks apply a little common sense to what some D’s are using as justification.
How it plays out legally is another issue.
But to the average person…
It sounds BAD that there are more ballots than voters.
It sounds bad that these reconciliations were fudged.
on & on..
Know what I mean?
Oh and dj–
You are getting a bit testy with righton.
He is reflecting what a lot of average people think and you being so mean isn’t helping him understand your logic.
I think Goldy asked a question that righties would rather not talk or think about. If the GOP claims there was ballot stuffing, are they ever going to present evidence of such? Don’t they realize they only have two days left until thier charade ends?
“At some point, they’re going to present some actual evidence, right?”
They would if they had any, but since they don’t, they have to use filler.
Our evidence is that pile of ballots that Huenekens referred to they had but had not counted…
And 82; they artifically raced to certify before they were done figuring out if it was accurate. Logan claims he has to race to do it; others don’t claim that.
Logical to me to get the books right, certify, then do the recounts. Nice tight apples to apples. Of course they certified, added, then counted, which is why we’re in this pickle.
Scott–
You are soooooo impatient.
First you lay out the dots…
THEN you connect them.
Despite Attorney Hamilton’s endless annoying objections, the dots are being strategically placed. You don’t see them. WHY?? Because you don’t want to see them.
Will Judge Bridges require names of fraudulent votes.
OF COURSE NOT….HOW CAN HE IF THEY WERE STUFFED!
Scott…you can remain in denial about what is transpiring.
The Dem attorneys are NOT in denial however.
Just look at Hamilton….he is worn down.
Bridges may very well give the R’s an extra day because of these endless annoying objections that are constantly being overruled.
If you think the Dems can short the R’s using these types of tactics…you aren’t very experienced in the legal scene Scott.
I think you ought to go drinking tonite with the other LEFTIST PINHEADS. Sit around and circle jerk all you want. The dots are being strategically laid…THEN they will be connected and VOILA
A clear picture!
If some precincts had more ballots than voters, and other precincts had more voters than ballots, there’s a real simple explanation the dipstick trolls have overlooked.
On Election Day, some Seattle precincts ran out of ballots, so they got blank ballots from other precincts.
I ask Scott: What would you want to see as evidence? Things you can easily refute or things you can’t refute? You can’t refute obfuscation when asked a question and the answer does not match the deposition one. Now it’s in the record and no one not even your best friends in the Puke-Indigestioner can refute it. Ever watch Perry Mason. Methodical my man, methodical.
Pudster
You mean like if one McD’s runs out of $20’s they just go get some from another McD’s and nobody accounts for it?
#92, where is the proof of that comment you just made? Do you know something…? Hmmm…? Why didn’t Ms Jenny mention that?
Pudster
righton @ 84
“They … let ballots go out the door w/ poll workers. Go read it yourself.”
Read about Goldy’s and Lawyer X’s take on this particular brain fart by Sharkansky here. And why do you think that Chelan does not do exactly the same thing? It may well be that they have a different procedure for getting blank ballots to the polls, but I doubt it. Please do provide a link to such information, otherwise shove your ignorant opinion up your ass.
“Airline analogy: how come Alaska can board its flights the same as Air Whidby Island; its cuz each hires enough people to do the job AND trains their staff. Or McDonalds serves me food just as fast as my Mom does; McDs has like 1mm people or 30 per store, my Mom is 1 person….get it?”
You are the king of bad analogies, dipshit! Try this one:
McDonalds has a one day “Big Mac for a penny sale.”
In KC there are 540 McDs that handle almost a million customers, one penny at a time for the day.
In CC there are 30 McDs that handle 30,000 customers, one penny at a time for the day.
Which county will more easily be able to reconcile all of their register receipts with the till, all of their supply inventories with sales figures? Which county will be more likely to run out of receipt paper, Big Mac boxes, have equipment break downs, and other unexpected events, not to mention longer lines and an elevated level of chaos in their stores? When the pennies and Big Macs are flying, in which county will you find a few pennies lost under the till and beneath the counter?
So, 540 is the number of polling places in KC and 30 is the number for CC. Each CC polling place only handles about 60% of the number of people at each KC polling place. After the circus, KC is a far greater burden in aggregating records all the way up to the certification form.
You either have no fucking idea about the issues in managing a large time-constrained events, or you are just trying to be a prick.
Righton: Keep being a prick, as it pricks the likes of dj. His writing style improves to his best level when you are a prick. I can’t even see his analogy. CC wants to make sure the election votes add up. I guess dj doesn’t care about that in KC. Isn’t that the correct way to reconcile an election before certification?
In my best Isaac Hayes: RightON!!!
Liberals:
Irrational
Bigmouths
Eternally
Rabid
And
Loathesome
Dems
Even
Now
Illogical
And
Lying losers
dj: Maybe righton’s artificial intelligence is no match for your natural stupidity. Righton is someone who thinks logically, and it provides a nice contrast to the HA world.
It seems to me that the democraps decided if they must choose between two evils, pick the one they’ve never tried before. Didn’t a wise man once say “Trouble always comes at the wrong time.” Looks like trouble is Nicole Way and Garth Fell for Bill “Deer in the Headlights” Huennekens. Remember there is always one more imbecile than you counted on, and for all you Goldyites it’s Bill Huennekens. For him, this court experience is a wonderful thing. It enables him to recognize a mistake when he made it again, his is his court testimony.
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves for they shall never cease to be amused dj.
Pudster
It appears the Republicans are as intent on killing time as they are on killing Bill. At some point, they’re going to present some actual evidence, right?
Killing us with boredom is more like it. Soooooo painful.
Mr. Cynical @ 86
”It’s not just you…it’s the Democratic Party “talking points”. I just don’t think it is playing well when average folks apply a little common sense to what some D’s are using as justification.”
In many ways I agree with you, Mr. C., the Dems have a tough PR battle to fight. People don’t have good access to the facts and good overviews of the voting process. They also have troubles with issues of scale. For example, who did a poorer job in this election: KC for having some 773 ballots cast by ineligible felons, or Benton County with 69 ballots cast by felons? The fact is, they are almost identical in the number of felon votes per ballot cast. It is just that KC had 900,000 votes and Benton only had 68,000 votes. It is difficult for people to get their head around these kinds of numerical issues.
So, why should KC be singled out as the county that screwed up the election? It is only because there is political gain for attacking KC. It just ain’t as sexy to say “the election was stolen by Whitman, Columbia, Franklin, Kittitas, Spokane, Clark, Douglas, Walla_Walla, Thurston, Okanogan, Chelan, Garfield, Lincoln, Lewis, Benton, Yakima, Grant, and Ferry Counties.” In total, these counties, combined, have about a million votes and 600 Felon votes, and none of them have been under the microscope the way KC has. If we were to search all of these counties, we might find a couple hundred provisional ballots fed through the voting machines, too.
”But to the average person…It sounds BAD that there are more ballots than voters. It sounds bad that these reconciliations were fudged. on & on.. Know what I mean?”
I do understand what you mean, Cynical. But, I know that KC had the burden of reconciliation for an election the size of those 18 other counties. What I don’t know is whether anybody in those counties found themselves in the position to estimate (a.k.a. fudge) a number on a reconciliation form. Nobody knows because there is no political gain from doing so. The Dems will take a PR hit as a result.
”Oh and dj–You are getting a bit testy with righton. He is reflecting what a lot of average people think and you being so mean isn’t helping him understand your logic.”
So, you are creeping me out, Cynical. Is Mrs. Cynical slipping nice pills into your gin and tonics? For the last week or so you have, on a number of occasions, complimented both Goldy and me, and you have been making some quite reasonable points. What’s next? You show up at Drinking Liberally tonight and offer to buy Goldy and me a drink? :-)
Generally, with a new poster I am happy to engage in a polite debate. And there are some regulars here (Richard Pope, and sometimes you, Mark, and Marks) with whom I enjoy a civil discussion or debate. Yes, I am hard on a few of the right-wingers here who (1) make hair-brained assertions (unencumbered by fact or reality), (2) argue with bad analogies, (3) don’t support their arguments with facts, (4) don’t cite their sources, and (5) just can’t admit when they are wrong. (Note: righton is not that bad—he is only guilty of a couple of these). In any case, Cynical, I will try to take your wise words (“being so mean isn’t helping him understand your logic”) to heart and tone it down a bit—if it doesn’t take too much of the fun out of it. :-)
dj@96
I think McDonalds actually does handle huge volume in one day, and in small regions and in large regions. All staffed and MANGAGED appropriately.
A big outfit can move as fast as a small one. Did you discover some new law of energy, that says a constant work per person times lots of people must slow time down?
Hey #102: Isn’t that new law of energy previously called a UNION?
Pudster
Could you imagine the satire or TV show on our bungling elections people? Dean Logan at some convention a few weeks ago being lauded for his expertise in elections, Sam Reed waffleing in the middle, Gregoires personal attorney Durkan leading the Dems effort, Sims getting laughed at in his meetings, Logan “blinking”, underlings fessing up
And off topic, what are the “cultural problems”? that logan refers to at KC? Don’t like young bosses, old ladies giving him heck, racial stuff, ??? I don’t know what cultural is code for.
righton @ 102
Thanks, friend, for your insightful comment (gag, choke).
Seriously, the McDonalds with the highest volume of floor traffic almost certainly are the ones with the till off by a few pennies. That is what we are talking about in the KC election: KC has an error rate that comes out to a few hundred pennies out of a million one cent transactions.
The fact that they had to certify the results (of the Governor and all the other races) by a fixed date is unfortunate. It led to one of the numbers being fudged (or “estimated,” if you prefer a less perjorative word). If KC had had more time, they could have hired an army of counters to manually tabulate the absentee ballots and envelopes. The alternative was for the entire KC canvassing board to be slapped with a Class C felony charge for not certifying the election on time. That would have gotten a more accurate number for the form, but was not doable in the time allowed. That is one example of the way time constraints put KC at a disadvantage to Chelan county. The huge scale of that operation did not allow KC to do that count. Note that the law requires counties to certify the election if the results are known with “reasonable certainty”. KC did that.
Please note: the “fudged” number on the reconciliation form did not affect the number of votes cast for any candidate. Even if the KC computer program had provided a number for the form, the election results would have been identical. Somehow there seems to be misinformation that the fudged number might have affected the number of votes cast for each candidate. It didn’t. If they had done a hand count of the envelopes and ballots, the vote results would have been no different. Only the accounting form would have been more accurate.
dj–
I’m a reasonable man…
I’ve learned a lot here from a few of you (you included)…
When you cut thru all the insults and funnin’ around…..and look at some of the issues I’ve raised the past few months…
well, whatever.
Since we all enjoy making prognostications, here’s one for you:
Either during or after the trial, the KingCo deck of cards will start to crumble. Frankly, I think Huennekens and Logan were so arrogant at the beginning of these proceedings, that they felt they could literally BS their way out of the failed ballot accounting. These 2 were heralded by other Auditors, Ron Sims and others as the “leading election experts” in Washington. They believed their own hype. They were active at Auditors and Election Officials conferences….everyone looked to these 2 for advice on a variety of issues.
HOWEVER, knowledge of RCW’s and WAC’s and how things should be done does not always translate into getting it done. This is where the problems lie. These 2 nincompoops are incompetent managers. And management is part of their jobs. Rather than clearly admit these reconciliation problems, they began to spin a tangled web of deceit. Finally they found themselves tangled up because they were producing documents to explain away one problem and ended up creating even more problems in other areas.
Now it has gotten to the point of no return. Logan & Huennekens have had a moral dilemma and decision to make. Do THEY accept the blame and say THE BUCK STOPS HERE. Or do they weasel & slither…blaming underlings and denying culpability themselves??
Huenneken’s clearly showed his chosen path today. He is a fucking snake!!! We will see how the underlings respond when they testify. Are they gullible enough to risk their careers and reputations for a couple of snakes????
Logan and Huennekens ought to be ashamed.
How can all these underlings be on administrative leave and Huennekens is not???
The deck of cards WILL FALL. My prediction. Either during the trial….or when the Feds come in.
DJ: I am sorry but the facts speak otherwise. You like to claim facts when I argue something so I throw it back to you. I must be one of the right win-nuts you so graciously call out!
You forget the Garth, Way, Huennekens mysterious certification document. I wait to read Nicole’s words tomorrow. Why submit it? The SoS has publically stated that there was no time constraint. This is a strawman with no legs. Where is the hue and cry from you side on the dead people voting, the duplicate votes, etc. I see three blind mice actions here on HA.
Pudster
I am amazed that the Republicans have gotten off scott free in the press with this contest and legal challenge. The way the Rs skewered the Ds in 2000 in Florida should provide a boomerang effect here in 2005. Amazing that they get away with a baseless case, costing millions of dollars, that basically screams “sore loser.”
Thom-Ass
You’ve got to be kidding, right?
Mr. Cynical,
When people don’t agree with you, you call them names?
I am not kidding. The republican lawsuit is like teflon…there is no attempt to label Rossi et. al. as sore losers.
In 2000, the republicans called Gore et. al. sore losers incessantly.
How is this kidding?
Please, if possible, refrain from name calling.
Or I’ll tell your mama…..
I will.
Yeah Fla the same as Wash, right. Both places Dems tried to jam extra votes into the system. Blocked in Fla, allowed in Wa
Wrong, righton. In Florida, the Republicans (thanks to brother Jeb, sister secy of state and friendly supreme court) blocked LEGAL votes from being counted.
Something I would not be very proud of.
Revisionism; never blocked legal votes. (depends on the definition of is). Blocked after the count “chad creation” I still recall that bug eyed dem guy in West Palm looking at the ballots.
Here you guys succeeded in jamming votes. Bet you can’t wait for 100% absentee; any guy with a laser printer will be jamming out ballots….
righton….you are the revisionist…if it weren’t for a friendly supreme court, we’d have counted *all* the legal votes. wouldn’t that be nice?
remember at the beginning of this effort? Rossi’s mantra: Count Every Legal Vote. Until after the recount…then it was “stop counting all legal votes.” Only the Dems’ effort caused all legal votes to be counted.
Again, not much to be proud of if you are a repuublican..it’s not about counting legal votes..it’s about winning even if you received less legal votes.
There’s one major problem with the conspiracy theories- sure King County election workers committed errors and omissions (as did election workers throughout the state. There is however no PROOF that votes were affirmatively added. Set aside smells, show me proof. The conspiracy theorists have yet to respond to the challenges that Sims loyalists DID NOT support Gregiore. I can tell you as an absolute fact their greatest fear is that Rossi throws in the towel and decides to run against Sims. The longer this goes on for them, the better. Rossi v. Sims is a much greater risk for Sims than Irons v. Sims.
So…if its errors, incompetance or negilgance on the part of some King County workers, the likely effect is random. How does that overthrow an election?
Thom-Ass
OK…I won’t call you names dickface!
What do you call such a shallow person as yourself without it being labeled an insult or name calling.
You might actually wait until this election contest is over before you label Rossi anything.
Gore went all the way to the Supreme Court AssMunch. He never conceded until his options ran out. You are a typical LEFTIST PINHEADED REVISIONIST….and a cocksucker too! This contest is far from over. When it’s over, then do what you must. However, it’s looking like you’ll be eating an Egg McShitwich before this is over. You will be whining and gnashing your teeth and wringing your hands and wondering WHY, WHY GOD am I Thom-ASS Trainwinder such a pathetic loser AGAIN!!
K
How do we get the proof you want? All we have is tons of circumstantial evidence. If i’m running the store, and on my shift the money disappears, and I was the only guy there, i’m guilty. Rossi was ahead 2 times, then KC got the sweepers and printers going and guess what, Gregoire won. She didn’t win thus they recounted better than the first 2 times, she won cuz they also added ballot..
The counting was never the problem; it was counting, adding, counting, adding, finding inserting, etc
Cynical, lay off Thomas Trainwinder. Remember, his father is Thomas the Tank Engine. He was kicked out of the Island of Sodor by Mr. Conductor Sir Topham Hatt, and his buddies George Carlin & Ringo Starr. He has to take his frustrations out on us who think from the right side.
These are the same HA people who said the vast white felon majority voted for Rossi. The Seattle Slimes already proved from their sample of white peoples that 51% of them voted for Gregoire and only 37% voted Rossi, forgetting the fact that the democraps are the ones who like them. But they forget that fact, and don’t even bring that up. Now you know they’ll start calling me liar, liar, even when their own favorite left-wing newspaper smoked out Paul “They don’t vote for Gregoire” Berendt on his lies.
Speaking about revisionist history, wasn’t it Al Gore who tried to stop the 2000 military vote from getting counted in Florida by court fiat? But, then again they forget that too. Wasn’t it Hilary who threw a hissy fit in 1993 because the Marine Corps guards were on the second floor of the White House doing their constitutional job protecting her sorry ass when she was first lady. Hmmm….
Pudster
Yup Pud…yer righton
Thomas is the little engine that wishes he could….
Wishes he could be a winner just once rather than the preverbial fucking loser that he is.
Righton @ 118
The manual recount in King County was overseen by teams incluging Republicans in each and every group.
Sorry, but without proof, its without substance.
And you ignored my comments about motive- Sim’s supporters worst nightmare is Rossi losing by their percieved interferance and then running against him. THere’s no motive.
And it’s late and I apparently lost the ability to spell.
Thomas Trainwinder is on target here. Wait ’til we start tearing into those Diebold “fixed” voting machines. There’s ample statistical evidence they’re rigged. Yet, Reps. don’t seem to care. I wonder why? Where is their deep caring for truth and honesty when it comes to that? Come to think of it, where’s the Dems.? I’ve had it up to my eyeballs with those “CORPORATE MACHINE” Dems. we have to try to support and generate some enthusiasm for. They suck razor blades, cuz they know better, but when the whip comes down they’re right there voting with those godawful Reps.
numnuts @ 89
That pile of ballots sitting in KC warehouses has been counted at least 4 times.
The Reps. are right. Democrats are weak pussies with no gumption and even less ability to fend for themselves than pom-pom girls on a cattle ranch. This whole Gregoire thing of “Stickin’ to your guns” is an anomaly that only a Dem. woman politician could pull off. The men have no balls at all. I’m sick of them….
Reply to 95
That’s what numerous Democratic lawyers who poll watched in King County on Election Day reported. Since I’m in touch with some of those folks, I got this information directly from the original sources.
I get no end of laughs out of the trolls’ obsession over reconciling votes and ballots. It doesn’t matter how many times you repeat the fact reconciliation is impossible and no valid inferences can be drawn from the available data, for the simple reason that a system of accounting for ballots and reconciling them with voters was not in place. They harp on it because they think it’s a smoking gun. It’s not even a popgun. Judge Bridges isn’t stupid. He realizes the GOP can’t prove stuffing this way, for the simple reason that the proof the GOP is relying on NEVER EXISTED. But that goes way over the heads of our resident trolls, who are too stupid to figure out complicated concepts like that.
Comment on 98
Rather tortured, not alliterative or particularly catchy, and waaaay too verbose. Lacks the snappy pizzas of, e.g.,
Greed
Oil
Pollution
(or)
Greedy
Old
Plutocrats
that should be pizzaz … “pizzas” is something you eat. Unless you’re a Republican, in which case you’ll soon be eating massive quantities of crow.
Comment on 104
Wrongon, you sure are sloppy. Durkan is neither Gregoire’s staff attorney nor her personal attorney, and never has been. Durkan represents the Democratic Party, not Gregoire, dummy.
Comment on 106
This post is a classic case of a person so blinded by a plethora of trees that he is unable to see the forest in front of him.
Let’s suppose, arguendo, that all you say is true. Logan and Huennekens are arrogant screwups, etc. What this adds up to is bureaucratic error.
So the election was less than perfect because of mistakes, bureaucratic bungling, and management incompetence! My question is … so what?
The law doesn’t require a perfect election. On the other hand, the law spells out what Rossi and the GOP must prove: That Rossi won, and the mistakes changed the outcome, resulting in an erroneous certification of election.
If they can’t prove that, they’ve got nothing. And merely proving that errors or bungling occurred — or even fudging of official reports — falls far short of proving Rossi was robbed. All of this hoopla you’re raising is sideshow, margin doodling … legally irrelevant.
Comment on 114
“Revisionism; never blocked legal votes.”
Bullshit.
Comment on 118
“How do we get the proof you want?”
That’s your problem. That’s what the GOP supposedly is paying its lawyers $2 million for.
“All we have is tons of circumstantial evidence.”
Then you lose.
Since you trolls have chosen to make an issue of Logan and Huennekens, I chose to make an issue of the nakedly partisan GOP thug, Ken Blackwell.
Since you trolls have chosen to make an issue of how elections are run in King County, I choose to make an issue of how elections are run in Ohio.
If you want a revote in Washington for governor, then I want a revote in Ohio for president with White House occupancy in 2006-2008 on the line.
Here, shove this up your ass.
>Attack on election board whistleblower and leaked Blackwell threats re-fire Ohio’s election theft scandal
>by Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman
>May 23, 2005
>The potential firing of Ohio whistleblower Sherole Eaton, Deputy Director of the Hocking County Board of Elections, has re-fired bitter controversy over the stolen 2004 presidential election.
>And newly released documents confirming a pre-election threat by Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell against election board officials has added to the mix, as has the dismissal of Blackwell’s highly publicized sanction attempt against attorneys who challenged the election outcome.
>A paid Hocking County Election Board staff official, Eaton gained national notoriety when she blew the whistle on a Triad vote count technician. The technician swapped-out a hard drive in the tabulating computer located at the Board of Elections office before a statewide recount could be completed. According to a December 3, 2004 affidavit sworn by Eaton, the Triad technician “advised” the Hocking County Board of Elections’ Republican Director Lisa Schwartze on how to “post a ‘cheat sheet'” to make the recount match the officially reported election total. Advocates of the recount complain that the unexplained intrusion by the technician compromised the integrity of the vote count.
>Eaton’s whistleblower report resulted in heavy national publicity surrounding the technician’s intrusion, including dramatic testimony at hearings conducted by Congressman John Conyers (D-MI) that helped lead to the historic January 6 challenge of the seating of the Ohio Electoral College delegation in Congress. Revelations of the technician’s intrusion led to angry charges that the vote count had been hopelessly tainted.
>In an exclusive May 23 interview, Schwartze told Freepress.org that “Sherole is on vacation.” When asked if Eaton had been fired, Schwartze commented that Eaton has until June 30 to resign or be fired, and “that decision came from the Board.”
>At the Ohio Democratic Party’s annual dinner, Eaton told the Free Press that she is not at liberty to discuss the situation, but that she is “a federal whistleblower” who sees the Board’s action against her as “retaliation” for her affidavit revealing Triad’s critical intrusion.
>Though comprised of both Republicans and Democrats, the Hocking County Board now pressuring Eaton continues to act under direct threat from Secretary of State Blackwell. Blackwell administered the 2004 election in Ohio while serving as the state’s co-chair for the Bush-Cheney campaign. He has been widely criticized in Congress, in the media and throughout Ohio for heavy-handed partisan manipulations that resulted in Bush carrying Ohio and the presidency.
>In a letter dated October 5, 2004 to Republican Chair of the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections Robert Bennett, Blackwell specifically threatened removal of any board member who refused to follow his direct orders. The threat undermines Republican arguments that the election was fair because both Democrats and Republicans serve on election boards. “Be advised that your actions are not in compliance with Ohio law and further failure to comply with my lawful directives will result in official action, which may include removal of the Board and its Director,” Blackwell wrote Bennett.
>Under Ohio law, all election board members serve at Secretary of State Blackwell’s pleasure. Cuyahoga Election Board member Michael Vu mentioned the letter at a Congressional hearing staged at the Ohio statehouse by Republican Congressman Bob Ney. Ney brought the hearing to Columbus in part because Blackwell refused to testify in Washington. The hearing was highlighted by angry, bitter exchanges between Blackwell and US Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones, who co-introduced (with Senator Barbara Boxer of California) the historic Congressional resolution challenging the seating of the Ohio Electoral College delegation for Bush.
>In his October letter Blackwell made it clear that any Election Board official, Republican or Democrat, who challenged Blackwell’s decrees would be summarily removed. Election Board positions are well paid, and Blackwell’s threat erased widespread claims the presence of Democrats on Election Boards guaranteed that the election was administered in a neutral, bi-partisan manner.
>In fact, with the club of a loss of substantial salaries, this leaked letter makes it clear Blackwell was running the election with an iron partisan hand, and that claims of true bi-partisanship were strictly for show.
>Fair election proponents did get some good news with the dismissal of sanctions pressed by Blackwell against four attorneys who sued to question Ohio’s official 2004 vote count. Ohio Supreme Court Chief Justice Thomas Moyer threw out a sanctions attempt against attorneys Cliff Arnebeck, Bob Fitrakis, Susan Truitt and Peter Peckarsky.
>Blackwell legally assaulted the election protection team after it sued in December to prevent a delegation from casting Ohio’s Electoral College votes for George W. Bush. The team alleged that exit polls and widespread evidence of fraud, intimidation and incompetence fatally compromised Ohio’s 2004 vote count, which they asserted should have gone for John Kerry. Blackwell’s demand for sanctions evoked harsh national criticism, including an editorial from the New York Times.
>Shortly after the threat of sanctions was lifted, Columbus hosted the first on-site “scene of the crime” national radio broadcast with a May 20 public appearance by Air America’s Stephanie Miller. Before a hall overflowing with paying attendees, and a national radio audience, Miller blasted the theft of the Ohio vote in a special live three-hour broadcast, the first nationwide talk show to come to Ohio with the express purpose of highlighting the realities of the stolen presidential election.
—
>Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman are co-editors, with Steve Rosenfeld, of DID GEORGE W. BUSH STEAL THE 2004 ELECTION: ESSENTIAL DOCUMENTS, just published by http://www.freepress.org.
http://www.freepress.org/depar...../2005/1284
Even if the Dems. prevail in WA, is there enough testosterone in this party to mount an effective offense? There’s more spunk in post-menopausal female Dems. than in the entire DEM male population. Reps. revel in being corporate tools. Dems. say they aren’t when they really are. There’s no such thing as being “Almost a virgin.” If you’re a corporate tool and a Dem., just admit it and stop wasting everyone’s time.
Isn’t it interesting that soon-to-be-ex-governor Chrissy is heading off on a “trade mission” to Europe just AFTER her daughter graduates from law school.
That just begs a couple of big questions:
1. Are the taxpayers providing Courtney with a grand graduation trip?
2. Is mommy dearest rushing to get in a free trip before the court case is concluded, just in case?
And she wonders why her popularity rating is in the toilet and 75% respondents in the KIRO poll are calling for a REVOTE… she doesn’t even attempt to hide the fact that she thinks citizens are stupid or that she holds them in contempt.
Hey, soon-to-be-ex-governor Chrissy, the feeling is mutual, sweetie.
Whoa, wait a minute. The “official” Republican observers were held at least 30 to 50 feet away from the recount process, and could not question the recount workers. Also, some supposed “Republican recount workers” were democraps. Can’t call me a liar on this one either, signed sworn affidavits viewable on SP. Stefan published them. You go find them.
Here is Stefan’s paraphrase of the democraps brief:”Yes, there may have been ballots cast in the names of dead people and unverified provisionals shoved into AccuVotes and more absentee ballots counted than there were voters, but unless the challenger can prove exactly who cast the bogus ballots and for whom they were cast, they should be treated as legal vote” WHAT? How can on prove the bogus vote when the envelopes are removed from the ballot. Utter stoopidity by your side. Count all dems votes even the ones duplicated, dead, or magically created. Even your Seattle Slimes is beginning to see the light today talking about those almost 4000 votes. From the Slimes:”Half a year after the closest governor’s election in state history, King County officials still can’t say for sure how many people voted Nov. 2 or, in many cases, who voted.
In all, the county can’t explain nearly 4,000 discrepancies between the number of votes counted and earlier tallies of ballots or people recorded as voting at the polls. In some cases, more ballots were counted than officials could account for, in other cases fewer.” Ain’t that lovely!!!!
Wait there is more stoopidity from the democraps brief courtesy of Stefan:”the Court finds that such a [unverified provisional] ballot [that went into an Accuvote] is, as a practical matter, the same as a lawful vote and had no effect on the outcome of the race.” What again? An illegal vote is now lawful. Puleese. Even dj would have to say that can’t be. But wait, maybe since dj didn’t answer my question regarding CC wanting to validate all votes as real vs. Nicole, Garth, and Bill not caring that the vote is accurate, I guess dj doesn’t care about election clarity, just that Gregore won!!!
Ha ha ha.
Pudster
Cynical @ 117:
You said “Gore went all the way to the Supreme Court ***Munch.”
Again, you are revising history..this time, 180 degrees wrong.
As you can see from http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0884144.html, it was Bush who went to the supreme court.
Geez…nothing you say seems to be right. I guess most (all?) is probably wrong.
Makes sense..you probably get your marching orders from Rove/Cheney just like Limbaugh/Medved/Bush, etc.
Too bad you don’t look at the facts first…and then come up with your opinions. You’d probably be more effective that way. And more accurate.
that pri**
Up till the trial Durkan WAS gregoires attorney. Most acknowledge her chief interest in this whole thing is Gregoire. Technically she no longer is her personal attny
Pud,
No, he was talking “all the way to the supreme court” — that’s not a state level charge, that’s “all the way” as in federal.
Gore made mistakes no doubt. But in the end, the Rs sued to stop legal vote counting — that’s the bottom line.
They made the claims here early (count every LEGAL vote, Rossi supporters said) until that was done and Gregoire won! Then suddenly it was backtracking.
Hmmmmm…..
Look at the times….
Hairy Poon
ThatPrick
Thomas Trainwinder
It’s a one-sided conversation because….
ITS ALL DON!!!
IN ALL OF HIS IRASCIBLE DRUNKEN GLORY!
ALL HAIL DON!
PONTIFICATOR, PROGNOSTICATOR, LIBERAL BARISTER
PSYCHOPATHIC, SCITZOPHRENIC, LIBERAL HERO!
go Don go!
Who really knows how many hideously deformed personalities Don will show today? Stay tuned……
RE:#142 I yam what I yam. I’m Harry Poon,not Don.
RE: #143… “I yam what I yam…”
A yam is a vegetable…
viewable:proximate?vote tinnily lemmas ascertainable