Here is something to chew on for all those Republicans, “Dinocrats” and weak-kneed liberals who argued that Gregoire should have gracefully conceded after the machine recount: if those 561 erroneously rejected absentee ballots had been counted in the first place, it is Gregoire who likely would have come out with a 40-some-vote lead after the first recount, not Rossi.
Chew on that for a moment.
And as hard as it might be for some Republicans to believe, if that had happened, and Rossi had called for a recount, I would have completely supported it (despite being solidly pro-Gregoire). I’m not afraid of recounts.
If Rossi comes out ahead after this, I won’t support him (in the sense of supporting his policies), but I also won’t be claiming he “stole” anything. He will be the legitimate governor of the state of WA. Same way I feel about Bush.
To clarify – what I mean is that I’m not a democrat who believes that Bush “stole” the 2000 or 2004 elections. I disagree nearly 100% with his policies and political decisions, but I don’t waste my time arguing about “legitimacy”. I will do the same thing if Rossi wins.
off the subject at unsoundpolitics they always complain about our corrupt democratic party and how they would never stoop so low. Just off the press : James Tobin (republican’s NE campaign coordinator), 44, was charged with conspiracy to commit telephone harassment and aiding and abetting. He could get up to five years in prison if convicted; his trial begins Feb. 1. Two other Republicans have pleaded guilty in the phone-jamming operation and are scheduled to be sentenced in February and March.
In 2002, six phone lines run by the Democrats and the Manchester firefighters union were tied up for 1 1/2 hours by 800 computer-generated hang-up calls. Federal prosecutors said Tobin and other Republicans had hired a company to make the calls to disrupt the organizations’ get-out-the-vote efforts.
Among the races affected by the jamming was the Senate contest between Democratic Gov. Jeanne Shaheen and Republican Rep. John E. Sununu. Sununu won by about 20,000 votes.
Come on, jim p- we know all us Republicans are perfectly honest- we never lie, cheat, or steal… breaking into offices, jamnming phones- that’s just fun and games, sort of like college hijinks…
Bush stole the 2000 election with lawyers and he stole the 2004 election with electronic voting machines. These issues are not non-trivial, nor would it be a waste of time to point out that these things have happened. It would be ludicrous to accept either of Bush’s terms as legitimate. It would also be ludicrous to accept Rossi’s term (if it occurs) as legitimate due to the statements made by the head of Debold regarding how it is his “obligation to deliver the electoral vote in Ohio to Bush”, the intentional efforts of the national Republican party to block the instatement of a proper trail, and the partisan rules for the manual recount which Sam Reed has set up which state that this is to be a recount of “all ballots previously counted” instead of a recount of “all ballots cast” as state law clearly states should be the case. The fact that Rossi has claimed to be a moderate when his record shows he is a neo-con does not help him. Nor does the fact that the White House created his commercials and have sent lawyers to back him up. Rossi is a slimeball who is on par with George W. Bush. He and his political party have done everything in their power to steal this election. They have committed elections fraud at every turn. But will they ever be held accountable for their actions? Will decent people even notice, let alone become indignant about these things? Of course not. You believe it is a waste of time to investigate elections fraud. You’d rather just sit back and watch the circus you call the “news”.
Ah, the rage is back- uninformed as ever…
FLASH – COURT HAS REJECTED DEM CASE
Jim King, I sincerely hope you’re being sarcastic. You neo-con pieces of human filth constantly lie, cheat, steal and commit felonies such as elections fraud on a massive scale. You “people” (and I use the term loosely) have no regard for even basic human rights protections such as the Geneva conventions and yet you think your shit doesn’t stink when the entire rest of the world has noticed that your shit smells an awful lot like Hitler’s did. You people are disgusting, barbaric, pathetic and ignorant and you severely need to be delt with in the harshest ways possible before you are allowed to spread your fascistic agenda.
You may want to note, Brent, that the State Supreme Court just agreed with Sam Reed- unanimously- that it IS all votes counted. not cast…
You know, Brent, you don’t know shit- look in the mirror, boy, you’ll see what it looks like…
Jim King, in each of my posts I have pointed to news articles and other sources of evidence to back up my positions. You just sit there and say “You’re uninformed!” but you don’t even bother to explain why or provide any proof to support your claim. You say “You’re stupid!” and leave it at that. I say “You’re stupid!” and then explain why and provide evidence to support my claim. Grow up and learn to articulate yourself or do everyone a favor and stop posting your ignorant comments.
And yet more proof! You can’t do anything but say “No I’m not! You are!” and then leave it at that. You are only capable of insulting people but you are completely incapable of explaining why you believe what you do or of pointing out any evidence to support your position. You obviously have the intellectual capacity of a two-month-old baby. Fuck off and die, Jim King. No one cares what you have to say anyway.
Brent- you haven’t provided shit- and go take your meds and read your two posts above. Then read my posts, and see what articulation looks like. From here on, you are about as worthy of replying to as the Snark.
Either attempt to refute my comments and sources and articulate your own comments and provide sources to back them up, or don’t bother posting here. All you little babies with your “No I’m not! You are!” attitude seriously need to either grow up or kill yourselves.
Brent- what gives you tghe fucking right to tell me not to post here? Has this become YOUR blog? Call the emergency number for psychiatric intervention- you really need it.
Jim King, I forgot to mention how unoriginal you are. I told Mr. Cynical that he seriously needs to take his meds, so you simply stole the line and re-used it against me. You can’t even think up your own insults. You can only take someone’s insults and use them against them. That’s pathetic. Did you think I wouldn’t notice that you used my insult? Everything I’ve said is perfectly well known and is backed up by evidence. You will have to articulate your case and refute the evidence and provide evidence to support your case. When you say things like “Nuh uh!” and “I know you are but what am I?” you expose your severe cerebral limitations.
Again. The same thing. Earlier this morning I posted that Mr. Cynical needs a visit from the men in the long, white lab coats. So what do you do? You steal my line and use it against me. You can’t even attack me with anything but my own insults. Grow up.
I’m sick and tired of complete retards like Jim King and Mr. Cynical who are too stupid to realize that the entire world abhors them and about a third of the world would kill them without bothering to think twice. Ignorant, sheltered idiots such as them are unaware that if someone doesn’t sound like them, it doesn’t mean that they are mentally ill or a communist. In fact, the advancement of the neo-con agenda relies entirely on mental illness and stupidity. You idiots think that everyone else is wrong and you are right. And I do mean EVERYONE. Get out sometimes. See the rest of the world. Stop with the sheltered, idiotic mindset that EVERYONE hates.
Comment by Brent— 12/14/04 @ 9:56 am
Go fuck yourself.
Josef- I doubt he can get it up- that may be the source of his rage…
You cannot find a single country except America where the majority of the population does not agree with me about the neo-cons. Not a single one. It’s always the crazy guy who says, “I’m not crazy, everyone else is!” and that is precisely what the neo-cons are forced to say when confronted with the fact that everyone detests them. And what is it with you people and projection? Apparently you write down every negative thing about yourself and then accuse other people of being that way. You’re so mentally ill that you feel like you have to resort to calling me mentally ill simply because my opinion of you and your party are the same as the opinions of the entire rest of the world.
Comment by Jim King— 12/14/04 @ 10:04 am
Jim, I feel sorry for you and think Brent is actually Baghdad Bob Berendt… hence my above posting of sheer unadulterated anger.
You have been the voice of reason and I think the law says, as the State Supremes just said, you can’t recanvass after election certification.
And God Bless the State Supremes!
Josef
Comment by Brent— 12/14/04 @ 10:31 am
I’m not a neo-con…
You should go back to Baghdad, Baghdad Bob…
Wow. The more you speak the less articulate you neo-cons get. All you’re capable of doing is saying “Nuh uh!” and “If you want to see that go look in the mirror!” and “Fuck off!” I said “Fuck off”, but it was during a message which was moderately lengthy and articulate. The pathetic thing is that these insults are your entire posts. Come on. Keep going. This is funny. Let everyone who reads this blog know exactly how immature, inarticulate and uninformed you are.
Josef- the best thing to do with the poor mindless toothless beasts is to ignore them- the worst a Brent can do is hump your leg…
All the Supreme Court’s ruling proves is that it is overrun by partisan hacks. State law clearly states to count “all ballots cast” not “all ballots previously counted”. As the federal Supreme Court illegally stole the election for Bush, it appears the Washington State Supreme Court has illegally stolen the election for Rossi. What a great country in which we live, where panels of partisan hacks can steal elections.
That’s exactly why this country is in the horrible shape it’s in. Because you brain-dead neo-cons ignore what everyone else on Earth has to say about you. After all, it’s only every single other person on Earth who hates you and can’t wait until your reign of brutal terror is finally over. But what do they know? They’re only everyone else. And you know you’re not crazy, the entire rest of the world is.
Brent,
Most of the justices are personal friends of Gregoires (Fairhurst was a senior Deputy AG for her), they ruled on the merits of the case for a change.
Jim King I know you know this, but- you cant argue with a fool, people will wonder who is who eventually. Logic and emotion do not an equation make.
Careful, Angry- might be your leg he tries to hump next…
But Angry- you CAN make fun of an idiot- poor fools I tend to leave alone…
Angry Voter, thank you for pointing that out. I’d forgotten momentarily that most Americans are stupid, worthless pigs who are completely incapable of the unaccustomed torture of thought. You people are too stupid and brainwashed to be able to think, let alone debate issues. You are incapable of addressing an issue, analyzing the evidence which was presented and find evidence of your own to report. You are even incapable of articulating your insults. You just say things like “Nuh uh!” and “If you want to see that go look in the mirror!” and then don’t understand why everyone laughs at you and ignores you. From now on I’m going to ignore everything said by you neo-con retards because you’re so stupid and mentally ill that it doesn’t even matter what you think. You think everyone’s crazy except you, which is an obvious sign of advanced severe mental illness.
The Supreme Court quite obviously did not rule based on the merits of the case. State law clearly states to count “all ballots cast”, yet they decided to ignore state law and rule that it is acceptable to count “all ballots previously counted” instead of ruling that “all ballots cast” must be examined and, if legitimate, counted. This is a partisan ruling, pure and simple. I wonder how much the GOP paid them to pervert our court of law in this manner. Disgusting.
Brent, take your trolling/flamebait over to unSoundPolitics or some other place where invective passes as discussion.
Just a comment from the moderator here… I don’t mind the name calling and invective, as long as it is clever or backed up with some kind of compelling argument. But as David just suggested, flame-wars are better suited to (un)Sound Politics.
I don’t want these comments to devolve into the political eqivalent of “Yo’ mamma!”
Discussion? Isn’t this a circle jerk?
Pleae oh please no invective, impassioned opinions, implausible deductions, illusory ideas, ill-informed idiots, ill-conceived illogics, or other comments that stir the water too much.
Millions of very well educated and articulate patriotic Americans belive we are on the tral to fascim. Racing down that trail. They see evidence all around them, hundreds of symtoms.
They feel a need to be open and impasioned about what they feel, even at the future risk of being listed as subversive by a govt. wiich seeks to control dissent on an increasing scale.
Go Brent, do not let anyone muffle your passion in the name of decorum or snuffy pseudo intellectualism.
How about a real time discussion of where all the camps are at, and who is in them as we speak. We know of the visible groups in two, know many more camps have been activated around the world–very secret stuff, no media attention to speak of. I guess too trival unitl your neighbor disappears.
Goldy- this is just getting too weird- that last post just doesn’t sound like Bob… was Boeing working on body-snatchers in those pods…
Jim- just tell me, why you think all the many millions of people in the USA, which I think you car about, who are concerned about the trail to facism- why they are just so off base. Nothing has happened in the past few yers to make so many people have so many of the same feelings, conclusions, and validations? Are there no camps? Read the Moonie paper from DC, the only national press I know that has written about them.
I know the home town stuff is interesting, but connected to a bigger political scape too.
Comment by Goldy— 12/14/04 @ 12:30 pm
“Yo’ Goldy!” GOLDY FOR GOVERNOR IN 2008! HE’S AS GOOD AS GOLD!
Okay, I think we need a change in this state and I think since Gov’r-elect Rossi won’t run again – you should run. You’re smarter than those 3 clowns running for Gov’r…
Let’s see: One denies being part of a lawsuit and forces the SecState to hire outside counsel…
Another clown is a lesbian libertarian who enjoys stealing votes…
The last clown lets my hero Marummy do his fighting for him and unnerves a lot of people…
And Tim Eyman would flee to Sizemoregon… Do I have to say more?
Bob, I actually agree that there are some very definite fascist trends in the US. Note, I’m not saying “Nazi”… but fascist. I think the way the corporate media propagandizes on behalf of their government patrons is just one example (think Sinclair Broadcasting, or Fox News.) And of course, Tom DeLay and is efforts to turn the US into a one party state is another.
I don’t mean to sound melodramatic, but I can see this nation traveling down a path over the next twenty years, where the US will no longer be a safe haven to people like me. You should read my hate mail; there are a lot of people looking forward to that day.
On a related note – whatever happened to the Eyman-like guy in Oregon? Didn’t he go down in a ball of fire/scandal?
Well it is a long story and goes back to the days of the Aryan Nation-but have had swastikas painted on my door several times.
But for the moment I am enjoying Christms prep, anyone for mango- dark chocolate cheesecake, big splash of real rum, and getting this election finished.
Think RICO.
I truly appreciate you pandering to my ego Josef, but if what you want from a governor is smarts, you should have been supporting Phil Talmadge.
Well, looks like the Republicans will file suit to block the 561 new votes from being counted.
Brent,
Please dont hump my leg…
OH MY GOD THE R’S ARE USING THE COURTS AGAIN – IT IS NOTHING SHORT OF ELECTION THEFT, TOTAL CHAOS, NUCLEAR BOMB, AND CONTRARY TO CIVILIZED CONDUCT. CLOUDS THE TRANSITION, NO GOV. UNITLL MARCH ……ETC
They will loose this one.
Bob- I don’t think the R’s are filing a lawsuit… someone pulling our legs- better than humping them, I guess…
Great entertainment above, enough to show why so many clear thinkers would be embarassed to support any party that Brent and his “ilk” support.
Zip- every time I start to think my party is smarter than theirs, I go to that other place on the Matrix and remind myself how knee-jerk dumb the modern neo-con (as opposed to the real, Jeanne Kirkpatrick style neo-con) can be… It is humbling to realize one goes to convention with so many dense people… They still think (from the news reports, having admitted they haven’t bothered to read the opinion) that the Supreme Court decision blocks the counting of the 561, and have been working themselves up into a lather…
Of course, they think the State Supreme Court said you can’t listen in on your kids’ phone conversations, when the court said no such thing. All it said was that if you eavesdrop on a third party, that evidence is not admissible in court because you violated THAT OTHER PERSON’S privacy…
Comment by Goldy— 12/14/04 @ 2:07 pm
I did. Then he dropped out. Then I became a Dinocrat.
Josef- Phil is reportedly exploring the possibility of challenging Sims for King County Executive… Do you want to move south two counties?
I have a lot of respect for Talmadge, even though I, like many others in Olympia, have been known to wear our “I’ve Been Philled” buttons.
The bottom line is that both parties have attracted a fair number of wing nuts. The wing nut crowd takes all the oxygen out of a discussion with their venting. This has always been, but there are now more venting venues. I’d have to say the blue venting is way farther out than the red venting these days though. Some of Brents stuff above is unbelievable.
Can’t agree with you there, zip – Brent’s way over the line, but by and large reds have ruled the public message game this cycle. Volume of Sound Politics spinning is way beyond anything I’ve seen from the left, and Vance’s hyperventilating has gotten the benefit of the doubt in the public realm even though it’s probably just as much about laying the basis for his own future anti-King County run as anything else. If Rossi pulls it out, the conventional wisdom will hold that Gregoire went too far in her recount demands, even though it’s likely more people deposited their ballots believing they cast legitimate votes for her than Rossi. Kind of like 2000 in fact – but for the butterfly ballot fiasco Gore was prez.
“It would be ludicrous to accept either of Bush’s terms as legitimate. It would also be ludicrous to accept Rossi’s term (if it occurs) as legitimate due to the statements made by the head of Debold regarding how it is his “obligation to deliver the electoral vote in Ohio to Bush”, the intentional efforts of the national Republican party to block the instatement of a proper trail…”
Speaks for itself. What exactly did “Debold” have to do with this election? And volume of comments was not what I was referring to. The demos have the wacked out conspiracy theories seasoned with very mean spirited personal attacks, call people nazis, etc., the Rossi supporters argue the details of what is in reality actually happening. Every time I see Rossi supporters called “neo-con” I see another BS comment.
As my previous post indicated, I’m not defending the quote you copied above (although in general it’s absolutely legitimate to have doubts about touch screen systems that don’t leave paper trails), so I won’t respond to your question about what “Debold” had to do with this election. Perhaps you’re confusing my post with someone else’s. No doubt the D’s have conspiracy theorist attack dogs, but on the public airwaves this cycle it’s been the R’s that have been screaming nasty stuff like cabals and election theft. That’s not arguing details about reality, it’s just ranting and trying to get the base fired up.
Believe it or not, after I filter the rants out, I hear the republican public saying that they don’t trust this whole King County process. At least they’re ranting about things that are actually happening like found ballots, perceived or suspected cheating etc and not 2000 Florida stuff or theories about electronic voting machines. Gregoire knew or should have known that this would result from her call for the hand recount and filing the lawsuit: she also should have known that when this is over her support will be gone statewide. A failing grade on the first test of her fitness for governor.
I’ll give you that they’re ranting about things that happened like ballots being found, although hmm why don’t I hear the same about things like Kitsap’s found ballots that helped Rossi? As for “perceived or suspected cheating”, R’s from day 1 have done a great job at trumpeting this so as to create (as another poster recently said) the false end result presumption that G victory = D cheating. This is the message that’s winning out over the airwaves, my original point in this thread. I don’t disagree that G may have known that she’d lose some support by her decisions. That’s a given, but if she wins she can also claim that she helped more people’s ballots actually get counted, and she’ll have 4 years to gain back the kind of support she had as AG.
But Rudy- Kitsap didn’t find ballots- they found votes that the machines couldn’t read ON THE SAME BALLOTS- it is what other counties did last time. I am only aware of two other instances of “found” ballots- the Snohomish 224 last count, and the Whatcom 7 this count.
I stand corrected on the Kitsap ballots. But the tail end of this thread has been about whose venting’s farther out, and my answer has been the R’s definitely are, and more effectively so, without much basis. Not that D’s would be doing differently if circumstances reversed. At any rate this whole topic has been hashed out better in subsequent thread. Good to see you’re sweeping through the old ones though Jim