Voters brought Jim West to his knees yesterday… and not in the good way.
I don’t really have much to say about yesterday’s recall of the secretly-gay, gay-bashing, Spokane mayor, except that I hope voters kicked him out for lies, hypocrisy, and abuse of office… not because he was gay. My guess is there wouldn’t have been much of a scandal if West had been openly gay from the start. If West had been true to himself and true to voters, many of his former supporters probably would have remained true to him.
he deserved to be voted out of office for his hypocracy alone. i would hope it was not because he was gay.
He abused his office and brought this upon himself.
I don’t care about his orientation, religion or even haircut. Had he any integrity, he would have resigned. He didn’t and in a nice demonstration of checks and balances, his constituents have made their voices heard.
Democracy lives in (Eastern) Washington.
West was removed from office because he used his city computer to troll for school-aged boys. Same thing would of happened if it was girls or animals (is he moving to Enumclaw?)
He was an effective mayor (my friends say he at least got stuff done) but unfortunately he grew complacent with his fetishes. Does anyone really believe this behavior only started recently? Come on! Every campaign Jim had a different “girlfriend” and his sexuality was the worst kept secret in Olympia.
What scares me is when you look a little deeper into Spokane’s history – Other Scout Leaders charged with abuse, Jim’s Deputy Sherriff partner abusing children, the catholic church in Spokane abused children, Morning Star Boys ranch… it goes on and on. And they are all connected as well. Scary shit, glad I didn’t grow up there in the 70’s.
Perhaps West can now start his own Blog…like other closet gays.
I suggest he call it YoungMensAss.org!
So much for republicans bringing honor back to government.
5….Honor? Kind of like Bill “BJ” Clinton of Ted “Oldsmobile” Kennedy? [Mary Jo was not available for posting this reaponse to your comment.]
left turn….i don’t recall[pun intended] any republicans wanting this guy to stay in office. he was just one man…don’t blame the whole party for what he alone did.
unless you want to start taking the blame for teddy ‘the murderer’ kennedy and robert ‘kkk’ byrd………….
Yeah left turn – not every bigoted right wing republican is a closeted homosexual who prays on young boys still in high school.
left turn,
Why? One bad egg makes all conservatives bad?
Would you say that about Clinton and his escapades in the Whitehouse?
Should Esposito in West Virginia be proof that all democrats are selling votes?
He was an individual and he screwed up. It’s really that simple, but I trust some will demonize any aspect of it they can to score political points.
Politics is politics.
So, Mr. Cynical, when are you coming out of the closet? Your rhetoric sounds like the self-loathing that comes from a deeply closeted homosexual. Witness West’s legislative position on homosexuality.
And why would you care, anyway? I mean, you are “libertarian,” (haha! like anyone who reads your comments believes that for a second), and surely a hallmark of a true libertarian is someone utterly and completely uninterested in what goes on in another’s bedroom.
I’m glad West is out–who cares about him being gay, the point is he’s just another sleazy hypocrite.
Jim was at least an effective closeted gay mayor who fixed streets when he wasn’t trolling the internet for young boys willing to swim naked with a 50+ (?) year old man for $300.
focus on the roads man, focus on the roads
Power corrupts.
There are bad democrats and bad republicans.
There are many bad poltiicians.
Anybody who believes their side is pure and the other is not is a fool
There is a shooting on American Airlines 924 in Miami. It’s on the ground and they’ve secured the concourse…….
Roger are you watching?
12
A federal air marshal shot and wounded an unruly passenger in the jetway shortly after the plane arrived from Colombia. No further details are available, but given the origin of the flight, I suspect it may have something to do with drugs. Maybe the guy was a fugitive, or was smuggling something.
The passenger made a bomb threat, and was killed in the shooting.
He was traveling with his wife in the coach section, and became unruly when told to buckle his seat belt. The man reportedly had a bipolar mental disorder.
West used his GOVERNMENT computer to surf gay web sites and offered GOVERNMENT jobs in exchange for sex. Any city, county, or state employee who did this would be fired for misuse of government equipment and abuse of office. I take an egalitarian view of this — I don’t feel elected officials, agency heads, or managers should get special treatment or be subject to different rules simply because they’re high-and-mightys. My position all along on the Clinton sex scandal has been that if I’d be fired for doing what he did at work, he should get fired for doing that, too.
I feel a lawsuit coming on! Thanks for the info!
Associated Press reports:
“MIAMI (Dec. 7) – A passenger who claimed to have a bomb in a carry-on bag was shot by a federal air marshal Wednesday on a jetway connected to an American Airlines plane that had just arrived from Colombia, officials said.
“A witness said the man frantically ran down the aisle and a woman with him said he was mentally ill.
“Homeland Security Department spokesman Brian Doyle said after the plane had parked at the gate, a passenger indicated there was a bomb in the bag. The passenger was confronted by air marshals but ran off the plane, Doyle said.
“A team of air marshals pursued and ordered the passenger to get on the ground. The passenger did not comply and was shot when apparently reaching into a bag, Doyle said.”
According to latest reports, the passenger shot by air marshals is dead.
Sounds like a “police suicide” to me.
Back on topic.
Any goverment employee who is corrupt needs to be fired. Does not matter if the have a D, R or other next to their name. Does not matter if gay or straight either.
Trash is trash.
Seeking the truth.
Well said.
It would be nice to see accountability and justice brought back to Public Office.
All of my friends (Independents and Dems) said they’d vote for his re-election if it wasn’t for the whole trolling the internet for school aged boys on a city computer thing.
There are some dark secrets in Spokane’s history and Jim West was a part of them. His Sherrif Deputy partner kiled himself over child abuse allegations, another boy scout leader committed suicide over child abuse allegations, the Spokane diocese has settled countless lawsuits from priests abusing children (during the same time frame) and Morning star Boys ranch (where sherrifs and church sent kids) has admitted to councellors abusing kids as well. What do all of these have in common?
Jim West – Ex-sheffif deputy, boy scout leader, camp counselor, and catholic (at least friends with the convicted priests) all during the time this abuse was going on.
He is a sick, sick man and needs some help before he hurts another kid.
Oh bonus question – who takes credit for starting the State Senate Internship Program? And has “mentored” several boys over the years in said program?
Ill say it again, I am glad I did not grow up in Spokane during the 70s and 80s.
sgmmac @12: [Doesn’t like subject matter, or the way the discourse is going, or has an indefensible position] Look at the shiney object over there!
Maybe Bush should raise the terra’ alert level because some nutball decided he wanted a ‘death by cop’ That way people will be distracted form all his inadequacies
larry and roger…for two “people” who aften complain that people go off topic….you two sure do your share of it.
so west is out and we are all glad but you two must morph that into “we hate bush…”
gawd……sooooo boring.
and no, i am not going to leave. just heading you off at the pass…….
West was supported by the republican party and the wingnut voters when he was bashing gays, then when it turned out he was gay they disavowed him.
Everything seems to be as it should.
Xmasghost, I for one really, really hate Bush. And I am PROUD of that!
I would hope so. After all, Providence, RI’s gay mayor seems to be doing just fine…
I’m glad we all agree that West had to go.
The real question: To what degree do you feel that West illustrates the current (Republican-dominated) political culture? I’m sure many people on here would just call him a lone bad-actor… But his excesses seem to me to be the same style of problem, if pointed in a slightly different direction. I’d agree that using your power to troll for young boys illegally is different from using your power to get bribes for placing gov’t contracts, but only in the ends.
This stuff has always been endemic amongst the government, but its really bad with the current republicans.
Oh for christs sake Windie…..
Talk about an inflamatory, stereotyping statement?
Your last postbwas pure ignorance:
As an Example, Lets replace the word Jewish with Republican in your last little rant and see how it reads:
I’m glad we all agree that West had to go.
The real question: To what degree do you feel that West illustrates the current (Jewish-dominated) political culture? I’m sure many people on here would just call him a lone bad-actor… But his excesses seem to me to be the same style of problem, if pointed in a slightly different direction. I’d agree that using your power to troll for young boys illegally is different from using your power to get bribes for placing gov’t contracts, but only in the ends.
This stuff has always been endemic amongst the government, but its really bad with the current Jewish Culture.
Wow Windie, it would be hard to differentiate your goose stepping propoganda withn that of the nazi party
Momus –
The key differnce is she did NOT use the word Jewish. How about Facist Republican? is that better?
I don’t see a ket difference there, what if we replace Facist Republican with African American?
Anyway your right that little tirade, you still come out looking like a racist/elitest asshole.
Momus, theres a huge difference between saying ‘republican’ and saying ‘jewish’ and you know it. Its a false analogy.
Anyone who’s looking has to see that corruption has been far worse since the Rep’s took over. I think that Wests’ crimes are symptomatic of the problem. You can disagree, say he’s a lone nut, whatever. But I think its a question worth asking either way.
On another note, somehow its not surprising to me that a rightie troll would resort to scummy ‘internet debating tricks’ when faced with a concept that was uncomfortable to them.
Scumbag
Excuse the typos, I was a bit passionate.
I cannot stand any form of stereotyping.
just so its clear for everyone:
To momus, me saying that the republicans are corrupt is racist.
Hows that for totally insane?
No Windie, there is NO difference.
Propoganda is proganda
If you are uncomfortable with that, look at yourself in the mirror
…
I can’t even talk to you can I? Theres no room in your little world for uncomfortable truths.
There is a culture of corruption associated with the republican party. When I said “republican dominated” I was being nice!
It was my way of showing that i knew that democrats were capable of corruption too (quite capable actually). The fact is, the scandals are many times worse now that the Republicans are in power.
So momus, to protect your poor sensibilities… here:
Jim West is the posterboy of Republican corruption.
clear enough?
Sure you can talk to me.
However, when you slander an entire demograpghic becuase of the actions of a couple people, it’s called stereotyping.
BTW, the term racist applied to replacing Republican with an ethnic minority (be that Jewish, African American, chinese, whatever) . Whereas elitist (typo in my posting) would be a very accurate assessment of your liberal bigotry
Its not a demographic, its a political party. I’m not saying conservatives have a culture of corruption, I’m sayin the Republican Party does.
See the difference?
I have a strong sense that you knew that your analogy was wholly inaccurate and inappropriate, but hell I could be wrong.
liberal elitism=”All conservatives are dumb”
paying attention to whats going on=”There is a lot of corruption in the Republican party”
get it?
Actually the proper term is bigot, not racist, as this is an issue with a broader spectrum then just race..
bigot
n : One who is strongly partial to one’s own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Although in all fairness, the negative connotations of those two words really do render them usless in debate.
How about we just say partisan and let it go.
Windie cannot see any good in Republicans, and any bad in Democrats. Accept it as a fact and move on.
I think we can all agree that momus’s post @ 30 truly was ludicrous and such a non-sequitor it is befitting today’s
PuddyBud Nutcase of the Day Award!Congrats momus, keep up the horrific work!
sven, you’re an idiot.
I’ve made it painfully clear that i’m aware that the Dems’ are capable of corruption too.
No rational human being can deny that the scandals have continuously gotten worse as the Republicans have gained control of the government.
The dems, in this case, are the (far) lesser of two evils.
I agree with Goldy re West and his anti gay votes. It is too bad as it would be pretty hard also to be openly gay with the current make-up of the right wing (bedroom patrol) idiots in control of the Republican party. The folks that want more governmental control and regulation into the lives of consenting adults. Hardly conservatives!
Windie, you are a Democratic partisan. It’s nothing to feel shame over.
The history of the democrats is at least as black, if not worse. Thats why I refer to them as republicrats. Like in the book 1984, then farmers and the goats are indistinguishable…..
Donnageddon,
Correction: the word is non-sequitur and yes, there was a logical connection. By merely replacing one word with another it displayed what an awful and ignorant statement Windie was making.
The whole Issue of partisanship is just absoluetly wrong.
I am not arguing the curropt action of the republican party, not am I limiting to Jim west ot Duke Cunningham, or George Bush for that matter.
However, ignorance on a partisan level needs to be stopped in this country and maybe Horsesass.org is a great place to start.
Let’s face, the majority of both democratic and republican politicians in this country are corrupt, rather than bickering back and forth, we should be communicating openly and looking for solutions. Not creating hate speak on a daily basis, shich is what that majority of you on this board do.
sven,
you don’t know me. Don’t presume to tell me what my politics are.
you have no idea
Disliking the corruption in our current government != being a democrat. In fact, I’d think any right-thinking american would hate the corruption. Just goes to show.
I think its funny… despite your brief republicrat comment, you’re so firmly entrenched in the 2 party mindset that you think that anyone who is critical of the Republican party is for the Democrats. It simply doesn’t work that way.
you and momus both… its back to “How to debate like a conservative pundit #1: Be deliberately dense”.
How true that is.
momus, keep telling yourself that replacing “Republican” with “Jewish” is a logical analogy.
Why keep telling yourself that? Because you are the only one ignorant enough to believe it.
Windie, I can’t say I particularly follow you and your comments religiously, but I have seen you lean consistently against the rebuplicans, hence my comment.
If you are more moderate, I will apologize.
I am a moderate Independent, I wont register to a party, nor do I participate in any party activities.
My comments seeming polarized merely means you don’t know me any more then you say i know you.
What is generally polarized is this space, with the rabid right eating away at the looney left. It is more entertaining then anything else.
But its totally counterproductive, and in a broader political perspective, such partisan wrangling, the insistence that he who is not with me is the enemy, is what is killing our nation.
The democrats proved it when their entire 2004 presidential agenda amounted to anti republican and anyone but Bush.
I rarely vote democrat because they dont offer any vision, just opposition.
When the Democrats pull their heads out of their tails and show vision for our country that is unique, not simply anti-matter to the conservatives, then I will give them my vote, based on the merits of that vision.
An aide in Chuck Schumer’s office is caught illegally looking up SSN’s and credit reports. Nothing happens, except the aide is put on paid leave.
Someone in the CIA leaks information to the press that there are secret prisons in Europe. Nothing happens.
Jim McDermott receives an illegally recorded tape of a phone call. He is found to be guilty in a civil court and fined. Nothing happens.
Duke Cunningham admits to taking bribes and resigns.
Scooter Libby is accused of leaking information to the press that was already well known to the press, by admission of the press. He resigns.
Tom Delay is accused of breaking laws that weren’t laws at the time. He loses his leadership position.
Yeah, there is a real pattern of corruption on the repub side.
I wasn’t sure how I would vote on this one until I saw the ballot.
You can see a sample of the ballot statements at: http://www.spokanecounty.org/e.....ballot.pdf
You should know that, according to the Spokesman-Review, “The FBI is conducting a public corruption investigation and has seized the hard drives of West’s work and home computers. A lawyer hired by the City Council concluded the mayor violated state laws and city computer policies.”
After considering everything, I decided to recall him. If he had admitted what he had done and apologized, I would have voted no, but he didn’t. On top of that, he decided to insult our intelligence by admitting he engaged in these conversations but never admitting he did what those conversations clearly demonstrate. After that, my initial sympathy for someone so filled with self-loathing was overcome by the realization that he still didn’t see his mistake. It wasn’t about “mistake(s) in his personal life;” it was a series of mistakes in his professional life that did him in.
sven:
Presuming the above is true, you might wanna consider your posting style.
See, I’m upfront with the fact that I don’t like what the right (in general) is doing. I’m certainly not a fan of the democrats, but I’ll willingly admit I’m pretty much to the left.
But what do we do with a person who calls themselves a moderate, yet is constantly a right-partisan in their posts and toes the party line? Maybe its just bad luck, or I’m missing something… But your posts haven’t been exactly centerist.
And then you come in supporting momus’ ludicrous analogy, and going whole-hog in its defense…
Bill O’Reilly claims to be a moderate too.
If I”m wrong, I deeply apologize, but I won’t believe it ’till I see evidence.
By the way, did anyone catch Mike Webb’s show last night? He went off a rant about how the US military is just one big homo-erotic party. It was the most amazing commentary I have ever heard. Any of you veterans out there have any insight into this?
With all due repsect windie…
You statement was ignorant, rude and offensive
More than 20,000 Fox News watching, Bible-thumping, in-bred, republican assholes actually voted to retain this turd! If that doesn’t speak volumes about the lack of integrity and honesty in the GOP nothing does.
Oh and the shame, well, West is the first mayor in Spokane history to be recalled. Figures he’s a republican!
with all due respect, momus:
Only in your deluded little mind.
Windie, see left turns comment at 53 for another example of ignorance on this board.
Seriously gyuys, replace the word republican for nigger or jew and you are running a klan meeting here.
Good night all.
Windie, try not to burn any republican crosses tonight and don’t lynch anyone either.
don@27……….said”Xmasghost, I for one really, really hate Bush. And I am PROUD of that!”
how can you HATE someone you have never met? and know very little about…other than what you have heard from others? isn’t that a rather strange stance to take when you want to be taken seriously?
and MOMUS….if you are trying to educate windie et al….good luck.
a closed mind gathers no thoughts……….
Ghost:
1 word: Irony
actually another word: irony
something else came to mind: irony
Im sorry if you feel mislead. I respond to the nature of the post, and if its from the left, my answer appears more right leaning. Mea culpa, but when you are responding to people as far over as left turn it’s easy to do.
I dont support the Jew analogy by momus, I never like using that style of response to deflate someone’s logic because it is faulty: most arguments would fail under that method, when you can pick the topic of comparison, its easy to pick a winner.
And I dont like it when its used on me. I would rather debate facts.
Sorry if I didnt make that clear.
And in the context of this debate, I have maintained West should have resigned, not waitedf to be recalled, had he any integrity.
Janet,
I refuse to listen to Webb, his style and constant bashing is tiring.
I hope a democrat is elected in 2008, he will have to find something new to talk about. It may kill his show.
I find the content of this one particularly disgusting and offensive, as I am a disabled vet.
I am glad for one that I missed it.
I hate webb too
Man we CAN agree about something.
Terrible, terrible radio.
(also sven: good post, I may have redirected some of my outrage at momus on you. In which case, sorry. He just really, really pissed me off)
no worries. I dont take offense here. I learned a long time ago to take some time to let the winds cool first.
Glad we cleared up our misunderstanding.
Left Turn..53 – More than 20,000 Fox News watching, Bible-thumping, in-bred, republican
More likely it was the NPR crowd, and/or previous “applicants” for city jobs.
sven I am interested in your comment:
“The democrats proved it when their entire 2004 presidential agenda amounted to anti republican and anyone but Bush. ”
Um, you must have been asleep during that year. While Kerry was far too moderate for my tastes, the “entire 2004 presidential agenda” was not about anything but Bush. It was about returning to fiscal responsability, and not taking money from our children and Grandchildren giving it to the wealthy of today.
It was about fixing the disaster in Iraq with a plan other than “stay the course”. It was about funding education, and not just placing unfunded “leave no child behind” on the states. It was about stopping the degradation of the environment, returning to a sane energy policy, imposing regulation on a lawless corporate culture, and protecting America by actually funding the state and local first responders.
But it is obvious you are far to partisan to have caught that message, or you just watched th corporate controlled MSM, and were too lazy to fid out the facts.
Comment by windie— 12/7/05 @ 3:04 pm
“Jim West is the posterboy of Republican corruption.
clear enough?”
Jim McGreevy must be the poster boy of Democratic corruption.
replace the word republican for nigger or jew and you are running a klan meeting here
Yes, if you change something from what it is into something else, you get something else.
If you criticize any group and change that group’s name to “Jews,” your comments become anti-semitic. If you criticize any group and change that group’s name to “blacks” or “African-Americans,” your comments become racist.
For instance, you said above:
Let’s face, the majority of both democratic and republican politicians in this country are corrupt
How about we make just a small change, and… voila:
Let’s face, the majority of both black and Jewish politicians in this country are corrupt
I don’t think you are a bigot because you didn’t actually say what I attributed to you. Criticizing one group does not mean you criticize all groups.
You seem to believe that there is no legitimate place for partisan differences and criticism. While politics is often overly negative, your solution is logically confused and practically impossible.
Don,
I heard Howard Dean make that exact claim when his own campaign failed. He said essentially I am sorry that I didnt win the monination,but anyone is better then Bush.
Not the glowing endorsement that Kerry and Edwards needed.
Almost all the emphasis was on how Bush was wrong, and bad, rather then a principled argument about how Kerry was better.
It was about fixing the disaster in Iraq with a plan other than “stay the course”.
One of the ways to prove this was to show Bush was a deserter in Vietnam. And that related how? And kerry offered no specific strategy about Iraq, except to say bush was wrong and he lied, despite the fact Kerry agreed with him at the time. At the time no one had a better plan.
Stance=soft.
It was about funding education,
Something that I believe states have a responsibility to do, and something that ignores the fact that Bush spent more on education then anyone else.
and not just placing unfunded “leave no child behind” on the states.
I have certain issues with the no child left behind, we can agree with something here, but on the other hand I also think states have an absulute responsibility to teach to an acceptable standard. No one else was pushing anything forward better.
So tell me, do you support a complete federalization of education? thats where it is heading….
It was about stopping the degradation of the environment,
Typical Democratic mantra. Republicans dont exactly go out and demand/invent new ways to despoil natural resources simply because the dont care. Yes, Gore made it a higher issue 2000, no shock there, he always has been a strong environmentalist. The democrats typically are more environmentally conscious, but thats an issue of priorities, not necessarily institutional ignorance. I have no records of his spending so I wont make any further claims and I personally beleive some of the democratic ideas that have surfaced are overreactions.
returning to a sane energy policy, imposing regulation on a lawless corporate culture,
I might agree here, but I dont buy the myth that republicans are the evil corporate guys and the democrats are the good working people. Democrats take just as much from corporations as republicans, they all pay the piper. And they should all be ashamed for living in corporate america’s pocket, but that is an issue to fix in Congress as a whole.
and protecting America by actually funding the state and local first responders.
I have no idea what this means.
In 2004 I compared the two candidates on the top issues in my mind. Neither was ideal. I just disliked Kerry slightly more. Had Kerry dealt honestly with his war record, released all of his records by signing a sf180 and actually backed up his claims I might have swung the other way. Kerry lied when he claimed all his records were on the campaign site. I looked. At the very least his dd214 showed a continuation form for his decorations, and that was missing, and to date he has still not released his records. His dd214 also contained very glaring errors and did not to me look authentic. That is opinion, not accusation, based on comparing it to mine.
Regardless, he lost the battle in defense, and in honesty.
You may have seen it different, alot of people did. I defend only my own views.
I do not rely on any aspect of the MSM for my sole source. Nice try.
I say Kerry’s message. It was “I am better then Bush, because anyone is better then Bush” (also heard on the Mike Webb and Erin Hart Shows)
He was wrong.
Goldy,
Good to see West is going to have to try his luck elsewhere. How is the Spokane nightlife? Naturally, keep him away from the scout meetings…
donna @63
No, it was you sleeping. I can and do believe you were actually gullible enough to believe Kerry every time he said “I have a plan!” Every time I went to his website to find his “plan,” I saw sketches of plans (no details), “It’s Bush’s fault!”, and “Once in office, we will have the plans formalized!” Oh, and “Donate now!”
Platitudes are wonderful when you wish to get elected, but if you say you have a plan, it would be best to actually have one spelled out. Kerry didn’t have any beyond getting elected (is there any other type of politician?)…at least nothing planned out on pixels or paper…
Comment by windie— 12/7/05 @ 3:50 pm
“Bill O’Reilly claims to be a moderate too.”
I don’t follow him that closely, but I don’t think O’Reilly claims to be a moderate but an independent. He’s certainly more independent than a lot of other talk show hosts who seem to tow the party line of the Dems or Reps.
If you have proof otherwise I’d be glad to look at it.
Re O’Reilly:
From wikipedia:
O’Reilly disagrees vehemently with the common belief that he is a conservative, preferring to call himself a traditionalist and a populist. In his book The O’Reilly Factor, he describes his political affiliation this way: “You might be wondering if whether I’m conservative, liberal, libertarian, or exactly what… See, I don’t want to fit any of those labels, because I believe that the truth doesn’t have labels. When I see corruption, I try to expose it. When I see exploitation, I try to fight it. That’s my political position.”
*and*
“I’ve always been an independent,” he says. “I always split my ticket. I vote for the person I think is best.”
However, O’Reilly has acknowledged that from 1994 until December 2000, he was registered to vote as a Republican. He changed his voter registration from Republican to independent just as the Washington Post was preparing a story on his party affiliation. Now a registered independent, O’Reilly has claimed his previous affiliation was the result of a clerical mistake, and that no box for ‘independent’ was available on the registration form. [9] [10] [11] The actual form[12]has since been widely published, showing very clearly an option for those who ‘do not wish to enroll in party’ did indeed exist, and that the Republican option was checked. O’Reilly believes that someone else checked “Republican” on his voting record.
In practice, he may be an independent, but his comments are typically conservative or conservative leaning.
re:what sven said
its a very common trick too… You claim the center despite what your actual beliefs are, then everyone beyond you is suddenly extremists…
Fox news has abeen trying to move the center 20 degrees right for years now.
west was elected mayor with a “mandate”
and he was recalled because of a man date.
(sorry I couldn’t resist)
Windie,
I won’t deny Fox leans conservative. I might want to argue that they are less conservative then some of the liberal media is liberal, in other words, not as bad.
But thats an effectively meaningless distinction, best saved for an arugment over beer…a lot of beer.
windie @70
its a very common trick too… You claim the center despite what your actual beliefs are, then everyone beyond you is suddenly extremists…
While I agree with your point (claim x belief=extremism), I do not concur that it is a common trick. Unless we are talking about Howard Dean.
btw – Is Dean an extremist?
well I was pro-dean, so of course he seems very reasonable to me :p
I think, sven, what you’re seeing is the result of a decades worth of propaganda by fox news and its ilk. They’ve been browbeating the MSM as ‘liberal’ for years, and after a while poeple start to believe it. That doesnt’ make it true.
Windie,
Well i was noticing their liberal leanings long before i heard of fox news or ann coulter.
Sadly the mediais liberal, in my opinion, or it at least epxresses a liberal preference. I am not sure if that is a political bias or a preference due to being able to capitalize on sensationalism better.
Obviously each outlet should be evaluated individually, this is another spot where overgeneralizations are dangerous.
windie @74
what you’re seeing is the result of a decades worth of propaganda by fox news and its ilk.
I think most folks gravitate toward their political side, and in the last decade (since the R’s took over Congress) the shift has been to the right. I certainly remember the “dark” days of the Democratic machine, when there was nothing reported without the authoritarian Democratic leadership signing off on it.
They’ve been browbeating the MSM as ‘liberal’ for years, and after a while poeple start to believe it.
In this case, I agree to an extent: The media (btw-this would do better on Goldy’s thread about media conglomerates) covers what is news, and our policy makers are the news. Democrats have little control over things other than party message, and based on the latest, they have little control over that.
That doesnt’ make it true.
You’re right, I only go by my own understanding of things, and that is limited, at best…
sven, you are *moderately* full of shit :)
In any case, thank you for your service to our country.
Don,
LOL
Thanks, I think.
:D
The guy is a democrat in sheeps clothing, obviously a fake.
Let us convict the fag and hang em high. What a piece of shit.
Now let us recall all the fuckheads at king co. I would type all their names but then I would exceed the ergonomic laws of typing.
Mom, are you calling Republicans “sheep”?
Correct you are.
@24, Larry, the Urbanite! Look at the shiney object over there!
Your point was………. If you are complaining that I wasn’t on topic, you are correct, I was trying to get the Rabbit’s attention, so I went to the TOP topic, it worked too! As for the topic, the Rabitt and I discussed West last night in a another topic!!!! I am glad West is outta there, When you are dumb enough to be gay, talk trash about gays, hide that you are gay, use a local government computer to troll for dates, offer the dates government jobs, you pretty much deserve to be outted for being stupid!
sven, by
“and protecting America by actually funding the state and local first responders”
I mean that Bush has woefully underfunded State and Local “first responders”. The people who are going to be the first to respond to a terrorist attack.
http://www.newsday.com/news/lo.....-headlines
Donna,
Thanks.
Homeland security and ameerica’s borders are two areas that i fault both teh Bush Admin and Congress as a whole.
Likewise, Social Security, where some claim its failing but can’t decide how to fix it, and others deny the obvious facts that it is in trouble and say leave it alone.
Congress has elected to close its eyes and hope it goes away.
You see I personally hold Congress more responsible for a lot of this stuff. They deliberate, and discuss, and wheel and deal and ultimately do nothing.
As long as I can remember being politcally aware, back into the Ford years, it has been that way. no matter who controls it, the same lack of action happens. not on everything obviously, but in general, the only thing congress accomplishes is gridlock and Congressional pay raises.
@ 68
He’s not an independant. He’s a Republican.
source: page 75 of Al Franken’s book, “Lies, and the Lieing Liars Who Tell Them”
Al Franken is your source?
Um, Ok. Yea, I beleive him…..
How do you make a rolling eyes emoticon anyway?
sven, this congress is Republican, this President is Republican. They have done a LOT. Just none of it any good.
As far as Social Security, I agree something has to be done. And it will be done, after we get rid of these Neo-Cons who are now in power. All social Security needs is what they did (led bt Allen Greespan) and that is to give a cost of living raise to the upper limit in FICA taxes. It has been the same for over 20 years, and it is insane not to raise it. Once that is done, it will be just fine for another 20 years, when we can fix it again with a sensible raise.
“larry and roger…for two “people” who aften complain that people go off topic….you two sure do your share of it.”
Please provide a link to a post in which I complained about people going off topic. You can’t, because I have never complained about anyone going off topic. I do it all the time, so why would I criticize someone else for doing it?
Dumb shit …
@25 (continued)
“so west is out and we are all glad but you two must morph that into “we hate bush…”
Okay, by popular demand, here goes:
West = Republican
Bush = Republican
What do West and Bush have in common? A: They’re both Republicans!
sven, trust your eyes.
http://mediamatters.org/static.....er-reg.jpg
momus = apologist for GOP corruption
Donna,
Go back reread what is on Wikipedia….That was an old registration form from 1994.
As for congress. Clinton had a democratic Congress for two years and had his wife (the future sen) chairing the committee on health care, and managed to do….nothing. Carter also had a democratic congress, and managed to much things up.
Bush has controll of both houses and couldnt ram his Social Security agenda on to us.
The point is, as I read somewhere, that since pro is the opposite of con, then congress is the opposite of progress.
one final comment about congress, then I have to go.
Looking at our history, the most progress made in many areas in recent years seen was with Reagon and a Democratic congress, and with Clinton and a Republican congress.
I think there is a sign there…..
@66
“and protecting America by actually funding the state and local first responders. I have no idea what this means.”
It means Republicans consistently voted against funding for homeland security, while placing homeland security mandates on cash-strapped local communities. In two words: Unfunded mandates.
sven, I read the wikipedia article. O’Lielly changed his registration quick when he saw that people were gonna call him on it (including Al Franken) He is a lying scumbag, who would kill his mother if it would give him another viewer.
Bush can’t ram his social Security agenda on us now, because he has lost the support of his own part, due to his incomitance, and tragic history of corruption and lies.
Two years for Clinton to get health care fixed? Hmmm… those were the years I liked Clinton. Things quickly changed when he started playing politics with the Neo-Con congress and their “Contract on America”. Nothing good (except for posperity and peace) after that.
@79
Now “Mom” is trying to call Jim West a “Democrat?” LOL! The Repug trolls are truly desperate!
Hey mom, are you a fascist?
Never thought I’d get to ask that question. Thanks, mom!
I observed the campaign of 2003 during my final year at EWU. It was interesting how Spokane Voters at first were going to dump the Strong Mayor form of government after only 3 years, there was a charter amendment on the ballot at the same time James West, John Powers(the incumbant at the time), and another challenger(forget his name) were competing in the primary. John Powers was not well liked, but he never did anything to get a recall effort undertaken against him. Seattle has had three mayors face recalls, with only Wes Uhlman successfully defending his job. Hiram Gill was recalled(in the era of 2 year terms) for vice and corruption, but learned his lesson, and said so to the voters a few years later, and funny thing, they re-elected him! Frank Edwards did what at the time was un-pardonable in the eyes of Seattle Voters, fire the popular Superintendant of Seattle City Light, James D. Ross. Voters thought he was going to sell off Seattle City Light just to retire the streetcar debt(the debt-holder, Puget Sound Power, Traction, and Light, today’s Puget Sound Energy). The voters fired Edwards, Ross was re-hired by his replacement, and SCL is still around.
We do recall elections differently than California, we cannot do it out of spite, there has to be a good reason, and we do not have a free-for-all replacement election on the same ballot. What now happens in Spokane, is the City Council President, Dennis Hessions will take over as interim mayor until a replacement can be appointed to fill out the term. I think that Dennis should be that man, because he has already been elected by a city-wide vote. Unlike Seattle, the Spokane City Council Presidency is a directly-elected post, and the only at-large seat on the council(the rest of the 7 members are in a few multi-seat districts.)
Comment by Belltowner— 12/7/05 @ 6:30 pm
He still doesn’t claim to be a moderate, which is what windie originally claimed.
So does the fact that Al Franken also lied, when collecting material for a book, bother you? O’Reilly’s phony claim of being an independent (or is it Independent) seems to bother you a lot.
Comment by Donnageddon— 12/7/05 @ 6:54 pm
“All social Security needs is what they did (led bt Allen Greespan) and that is to give a cost of living raise to the upper limit in FICA taxes. It has been the same for over 20 years, and it is insane not to raise it. Once that is done, it will be just fine for another 20 years, when we can fix it again with a sensible raise.”
Here’s what he said in February of 2004, and unless he’s changed his mind since then, you’re wrong:
“Greenspan, who turns 78 next week, said that the benefits now received by current retirees should not be touched but he suggested trimming benefits for future retirees and doing it soon enough so that they could begin making adjustments to their own finances to better prepare for retirement.
Greenspan did not rule out using tax increases to deal with the looming crisis in Social Security, but he said that tax hikes should only be considered after every effort had been made to trim benefits.”
I think you are talking about this:
“Greenspan suggested two ways that benefits could be trimmed. He said that the annual cost-of-living adjustments for those receiving benefits could be made using a new version of the Consumer Price Index called the chain-weighted index, which gives lower readings on inflation.”
Which has nothing to do with the FICA wage limitation, but is a reduction in the growth rate of benefits.
101
Whether Social Security is facing a “crisis” depends on which set of economic assumptions is used. This is a tricky business, because it involves trying to predict the future. Most assumptions rely on a modest but steady rate of economic growth, factoring in population growth.
Under the most optimistic scenarios, Social Security will have a surplus and needs no fix. Under the most pessimistic scenarios, Social Security will be able to pay about 75% of promised benefits, but because Social Security COLAs are pegged to GDP growth instead of inflation, these benefits would still exceed today’s benefits in real purchasing power. They simply would not keep pace with the general society’s growing wealth.
Bush’s Social Security plan depended on assumptions that exceed the most optimistic assumptions in order to pencil out. While talking out of that side of his mouth — promising benefits based on wildly optimistic projections — he relied on the most pessimistic projections to sell the notion that there is a “crisis.” In other words, he was using two sets of statistics at the same time, which is patently dishonest.
101 (continued)
There is a school of thought that asks whether economic growth and an ever-rising standard of living can be maintained after the cheap oil runs out, and envisions a future “sustainable economy” at a lower level of consumption, stable population, and little or no economic growth.
If this happens, all of the economic assumptions are off, and government’s ability to sustain programs like social security and Medicare at all, much less at current or promised levels, are very much in question. We have always taken a growing economy for granted, but what if economic growth reverses and goes into decline on the downslope of the oil production curve?
Avoiding this outcome depends on finding an energy technology to replace cheap oil, but so far none is in hand, and those envisioned are little more than academic theories. And don’t come back with “hydrogen economy” because it takes energy to produce hydrogen, and current hydrogen technology is not economically efficient or fuel efficient.
How much energy it takes to produce a barrel-equivalent of energy obviously has a tremendous impact on economic efficiency and productivity. You can’t sustain an economy built on an oil industry that consumes 40 bbls. of energy per 1 bbl. consumed in the production process on energy technologies that consume 1 bbl. of energy to produce 4 bbls. of energy, which is what you’re looking at with respect to most of the futuristic fuels like hydrogen or unconventional oil (e.g., deepwater oil, polar oil, tar sands, shale oil).
erratum
should say “oil industry that produces 40 bbls. of energy per 1 bbl. consumed in the production process”
No, Con1st, you are mistaken
“A commission chaired by Alan Greenspan made several recommendations for addressing the issue. [7] Under the 1983 Amendments to Social Security, signed into law by President Ronald Reagan, the Social Security payroll tax rate was increased, additional employees were added to the system, the full benefit retirement age was slowly increased, and up to one-half of the value of the Social Security benefit was made potentially taxable income”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.....ed_States)
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb.....eline.html
Perhaps he should consider a run for King County office…you guys seem to love lying homos that abuse power…
Chuck@106: You do realize, don’t you, that Jim West was one of yours? A right wing GOP star of the party hypocrite? You didn’t know he was a poster boy REPUBLICAN. A GOP POSTER BOY? A gay-bashing, man/boy loving, fundamentalist, REPUBLICAN HYPOCRITE? You didn’t know that?
Comment by Donnageddon— 12/7/05 @ 6:35 pm
“All social Security needs is what they did (led bt Allen Greespan) and that is to give a cost of living raise to the upper limit in FICA taxes.”
Comment by Donnageddon— 12/7/05 @ 9:59 pm
“No, Con1st, you are mistaken”
The policy you linked to was already enacted 22 years ago. So are you saying we need to do nothing?
As I posted previously, Greenspan has (more recently than 1983) called for benefit reductions, through using a different inflation index for COLAs, on benefits paid out to people not yet retired. If that doesn’t work then he has said he would advocate tax increases.
Con1st, what do you have against reading the actual posts, huh? I KNOW that Greanspan did it 22 years ago because I STATED that is was over 20 years ago you fucking MORON!
And the same reasonable rise of the upper limit for FICA taxation can easily fix the “problem” with SS now.
Now, lesson # 1 for Con1st:
READ THE FUCKING POSTS!
For whoever thought that his ‘base’ would have forgiven him had they known he was gay all along…………
Are you on drugs?
He’d never have gotten ONE IOTA of support from the homo homophobic rightwing crowd. The rightwingers that email me are still badmouthing Barney Frank for chrissakes.
Enjoy.
Tim, the wingnut TROLLs on this blog call him “Barney Fag”
They are completely hypocritical homophobic RepTards
Comment by Donnageddon— 12/8/05 @ 12:52 pm
“Con1st, what do you have against reading the actual posts, huh? I KNOW that Greanspan did it 22 years ago because I STATED that is was over 20 years ago you f***ing MORON!”
Geez, calm down. I stand corrected, I did misread your post.
Also more was done in 1983 than just raise the FICA limit.
As I posted previously, my point still is that what you are advocating now, isn’t want Greenspan himself is advocating today. Something you seem unwilling to address.
Greenspan does not advocate it now. Why? I could venture a lot of guesses, but that would not be acceptable for either of us.
But my point is that it worked then, and it would undoubtedly work now. Keeping the FICA limit at the level of 22 years ago has been a mistake. But it can easily be corrected.
Yes, the 1983 act also began the means based taxation of SS. I think that was a mistake as well. And yes, in 1994 Clinton increases the means based taxation from 50% to 85%. The increas in the FICA tax level should also have been addressed at that time.
Also, remember that Perot advocated even more stringent means testing for SS.
hardovertoport@107
I know what his party afiliation was…I was refering to his lifestyle…it would fit right in in King County
Chuck, sadly you are misinformed. Closeted self-loathing Homosexuals are an Eastern Washington species. And a Republican Party mainstay.