Yes, that’s Sarah Palin, in her own church, receiving a blessing from visiting Pastor Thomas Muthee, who beseeches Jesus to finance her political campaigns, and protect her from “witchcraft.” Max Blumenthal has the full clip, plus more on Pastor Muthee and his reputation for waging witchhunts against actual witches. (Or, alleged witches, depending on whether you are sane or not.)
Of course, as the amen editorialists at the Seattle Times might point out, Palin is an Evangelical Protestant, and so it would be religious bigotry to mention her scary Dominionist aspirations and wacky fixation on witchcraft. Still, if hundreds of thousands of Americans will refuse to vote for Barack Obama because they believe he is a Muslim, when he is not, isn’t it only fair that voters understand what kind of Christian Sarah Palin is?
So your only concern with her religion is whatever political impact it might have. Or would that be how to turn her religion into a political negative?
Who cares? Get over being an angry Jew already Goldy-nobody cares about that either. Getting desperate it seems.
she belongs to an apocalyptic deathcult.
i don’t want her cracker-ass anywhere near the
red button.
@2
I care. Her religion informs her decision making. For this job, we need someone who can make decisions thoughtfully and wisely based on facts, science and humanistic ethics. We don’t need four more years of someone who spouts christianity, claims to get direction from a diety and acts with flawed relativistic morality. The Iraq war is god’s work? You want a president that thinks like that???
I’d rather have a Buddhist president.
So you’re saying it doesn’t concern you that the person who could be next in line to become president is asking for the blessing of an actual witch-hunter? WTF?
Why don’t we find a good medium who can raise the spirit of Cotton Mather to organize the forces of righteousness with Goody Palin at their head to save us from Satan’s minions? Or perhaps we should pull out a ouija board and ask some random ectoplasm for guidance.
Governor Palin is welcome to her religious beliefs, no matter how wacky I think they might be. But since she was clearly selected for her appeal to the conservative christian base of Republican voters, her religious beliefs and practices are subject to scrutiny.
As a voter I find it useful to know that, in the Year of Our Lord 2008, a candidate for the vice-presidency of the United States believes in witches.
If seeing Russia and Canada from Alaska is enough to qualify Palin to make foreign policy, what are the implications of her actually worshiping with a witch-hunter? Maybe it’s time to pull out your high school copy of The Crucible and read it. Or at least skim the Cliff Notes.
This actually sounds much better than the Marxist/Racist Liberation Theology Obama immersed himself in for 20 years.
rla@2 “The Iraq war is god’s work?”
Except she never said that. Is this the best you have?
Typical Goldy: “bigotry is OK if we can accuse anyone on the other side of it.”
No, it’s not. Being a bigot is not made better if someone else is a bigot.
Oh, and you are lying about her being fixated on witchcraft, that wasn’t her, it was the pastor. And you’re lying about her having Dominionist aspirations.
But we expect you to lie, Goldy.
Smartypants@5 “If seeing Russia and Canada from Alaska is enough to qualify Palin to make foreign policy,..”
It sounds much better to get the self-professed “inexperienced” yoyo at the top of the Dem ticket elected. After all, he lived in Hawaii when he was young.
Religious affiliation is significant to the extent that it informs decision-making on issues like, to name a few:
– Foreign policy: whether God’s special purpose for America in the 2010s is to speed his second coming.
– Public education: in the teaching of science, health, and, for example, literature
– The environment: whether global warming is because of human activity or is because God is hugging us closer
We’ve had a president/decider for the last 8 years who decides based on very bad intuition he thinks he’s getting directly from the Lord, because this is his religious conviction. Look around at the results.
Nobama@9
Well, there is his living in Hawaii. And Indonesia, then graduating from Harvard Law and serving as editor of the Harvard Law Review. Not to mention overseeing the development of a highly successful quarter-billion dollar campaign with operations in all 50 states in less than two years.
I vastly prefer Obama’s ‘inexperience’ to either Palin or McCain’s ‘experience’.
Smartypants @5,
“Goody Palin.” I like that. I think I’ll steal it.
Well, as an Evangelical Protestant, it doesn’t bother me too much.
Once a visiting pastor starts praying for you, it’s kind of hard to interrupt and start arguing with him about the substance of the prayer. It’s his prayer, he can pray however he wants. Some of these guys really go off on a tangent, but what are you going to do?
If she governs with a proper deference to seperation to church and state, it’s not a problem.
But I’ve got lots of other reasons for objecting to Sarah Palin.
Goldy, consider it my gift to you.
Though I’m thinking about copyrighting my comment on another blog that “Clay Aiken saying he’s gay is about as surprising as hearing you’re having turkey for Thanksgiving Dinner.”
The Beast is weak, his mark is 666, and he has been revealed by God through his mark and the ensuing financial crisis we are facing. Read the book of Revelations
Now is the time to strike the final blow and bring the treachery and evil of conservatism to it’s final resting place — In an unmarked grave, an uncelebrated history, and only its bitter memory to save us from repeating the mistakes of following the flawed ideology the Beast, Ronald (6) Wilson (6) Reagan (6).
“Yes, I think I will see Jesus come back to earth in my lifetime.” Sarah Palin not only thinks that the world will end in our lifetime, she’s cool with that. Why would you want someone like that in a position to make any kind of important decisions for the future of the nation?
rhp6033@13
You make a fair point that Palin really couldn’t interrupt Pastor Muthee when he was saying a blessing over her. But it’s also useful to keep in mind that Muthee first came to evangelicals/Dominionists attention as a result of his witch hunting.
According to the Christian Science Monitor “Muthee began his life in ministry in Africa by hunting down a local woman named Mama Jane after proclaiming her a witch…After Pastor Muthee declared Mama Jane a witch, the townspeople became suspicious and began to turn on her, demanding that she be stoned. Public outrage eventually led the police to raid her home, where they fired gunshots, killing a pet python which they believed to be a demon.”
Keep in mind this took place in the context of witch hunts throughout Tanzania that resulted in the lynching of up to 5,000 suspected witches between 1994-98. Robert Maxwell at Huffington Post has a detailed article about this at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....29033.html
In short, Muthee was speaking at Palin’s church in large part because of his reputation for hunting down witches. And I didn’t see anyone forcing Palin up to the altar for his blessing. Her choice. She needs to be accountable for it.
@8, pudge
So tell me, howsit you went ballistic over Rev. Wright for saying outrageous things like:
White folks have done enough harm to Africans that he beleives white foks might have started HIV.
We Americans should be ashamed that we poisoned indians and massacred them.
as opposed to someone who sits there while another human brags of hunting witches or “saving” the Jews?
Personally, and I know my librul friends and my own rabbi will vouch for this, I walk out of a meeting or speak up when I see this sort of shit and does nto matter if the ass hole in front stinks from the right or the left.
But tell me, YOU say Pain in not a Dominionist? How do you know this? Is her pastor a dominionist? Does she give money to their charities?
Look, at best she is a wet behind the ears neophyte .. rather like Patty Murry when she first ran for Senate … you remember ridiculing her for her tennis shoes? Yeh, maybe Palin will grow (as Pattu has). maybe.
OK, I’ve personally known a few professed practitioners of wicca. I personally am Catholic, and belong to the Cursillo movement, a group which seeks to reinforce each others’ growth in faith and share it with others who are at least interested.
One of my fellow Cursillistas happens to have a co-worker who’s a witch, and they’ve had many lively and fascinating discussions. He’d like to see her change her beliefs and become a Christian, because he knows she’s really a great person–there’s just a difference in their understanding of what motivates humans to righteousness. She, at the same time, wouldn’t mind his acceptance of her belief system. After several years, he hasn’t become a witch and she hasn’t become Catholic, but they’ve become good friends.
This is Christian evangelization as I understand it, not responding to someone whose beliefs are different from yours by shunning them, persecuting them or (as Palin’s pastor seems so proud to have done) running them out of town.
The President and Vice-President of the United states have a responsibility to deal respectfully with all kinds of people, both citizens of our own country and leaders and citizens of other nations. There’s nothing in their job descriptions that says they’re supposed to be proseletyzing their own religion, much less visiting punishment, on anyone who doesn’t share their beliefs.
Remember what I taught everyone. Don’t get caught up in Goldy’s individual posts. Pull back, and look for a pattern. This post is just one more in a long line of hate-filled, intolerant, Palin-bashing posts. Notice he doesn’t post positive pieces about Obama? Almost 100% of his posts having to do with the presidential candidates is a negative piece against McCain/Palin. He doesn’t write pro-Obama posts. This should be a red flag to us Democrats.
Maybe this is why Goldy is ashamed of Obama …
http://townhall.com/Columnists.....rt_packing
Here is a breaking story about how Barack refuses to help his poor, unemployed brother George in Africa who lives in a shack the size of an outhouse, but conservatives in this country are mounting a campaign to help George, already raising and sending thousands of dollars.
Art @ 19
Well-stated. As a practicing Lutheran, a denomination that is not much into evangelizing on street corners, I tend to believe that trying to force one’s faith down someone else’s throat is not right. I recall Christ having suggested that we should go into a private room and shut the door to pray. I’ve always taken that to mean that loud, public proclamations of our own holiness reflects nothing more than piety run amuck.
@20 “Remember what I taught everyone.”
What, that Republicans fuck farm animals? Sorry, we already knew that, what with the Google and all.
http://www.newshounds.us/2005/.....htwing.php
@23
I’m a Democrat. I’m on your side. I am simply saying that I would like to see more positive pieces about my candidate, Obama.
Jews would probably be more interested in knowing that her pastor thinks that terrorist attacks on Jews are God’s punishment for not converting to Christianity.
http://www.americablog.com/200.....-gods.html
Palin’s pastor, Larry Kroon, introduced Brickner on Aug. 17, according to a transcript of the sermon on the church’s website.
“He’s a leader of Jews for Jesus, a ministry that is out on the leading edge in a pressing, demanding area of witnessing and evangelism,” Kroon said.
Brickner then explained that Jesus and his disciples were themselves Jewish.
“The Jewish community, in particular, has a difficult time understanding this reality,” he said.
Brickner’s mission has drawn wide criticism from the organized Jewish community, and the Anti-Defamation League accused them in a report of “targeting Jews for conversion with subterfuge and deception.”
Brickner also described terrorist attacks on Israelis as God’s “judgment of unbelief” of Jews who haven’t embraced Christianity.
Only goldy cares about this (said enough).
What I care about is Obama’s resume on what has he done in his past that makes him qualified for President of The United States while we have Russians,Iran,china,N.Korea,Terrorist and the middel East Arabs all looking to do us in.
I’m on the fence tell me ..
@25
“Brickner then explained that Jesus and his disciples were themselves Jewish.
The Jewish community, in particular, has a difficult time understanding this reality,” he said.”
Get real man! What do you think they where Muslims? Read The bible and you will have facts.
@26
Adam, great point! Why can Goldy only bash those who don’t think exactly like he does? Why can’t he rave about Obama? Why is he silent on Obama?
This is a red flag to me. I am very concerned about this.
McCain apparently can only do one thing at a time. Multitasking is beyond him. He can’t prepare for a debate and contribute to the discussion about the financial crisis at the same time. I guess as president he would have to ask that the markets behave themselves while he thinks about what to do about some foreign event. He’s dangerous.
Those treasonous liberal pollsters at Fox News have Obama up 45% to 39%.
28
It’s fun to bash those who can’t think at all. Go back to your Klan meeting, Troll.
When will Palin be upfront with America about her wanting creationism taught in our schools?
http://dwb.adn.com/news/politi.....3554c.html
@31
You are an example of the kind of hate and intolerance this blog fosters.
This is a hate blog.
Sara Palin’s lover revealed!
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/
I normally wouldn’t bring this up but Jonah Goldberg says we can trust the National Enquirer on this kind of thing.
SmartyPants @ 17:
I confess I don’t know anything about Muthee, I’ve never heard of him before this posting. I guess that even as an Evangelical Protestant, I don’t run in those circles. I have known a few preachers from Africa, and Evangelists who have gone to Africa regularly, and I’d say that its a bit of an understatement to say things are different there. Christian, Jewish (Ethiopian), Pagan, and Muslim religions there compete with one another, and there’s hardly the spirit of co-existence, accomidation, and tolerance which we experience here in the U.S. In the wrong neighborhood, belonging to the “wrong” religion can be tanatmount to wearing the wrong color while walking through gang-controlled territory in a U.S. city. The conflict often spills over into local warfare and even national warfare, intermixed with local, tribal, and ethnic prejudices. That’s why the African Anglican churches are so upset with the U.S. Episcipol churches over the issue of gay ordination – it threatens to ignite a firestorm in Africa as Muslim or pagan religions try to take advantage of local prejudices against gays and turn it against the churches there.
But as I said, I don’t know anything about Muthee himself.
As for agreeing to be “prayed for”…. I’ve posted before about the co-supportive relationship between politicians, businessmen (and women), and pastors before. It’s a difficult balance for both to achieve.
Most Evangelical pastors are a little insecure, deep down. No matter how big a megachurch or ministry they now control, they think of themselves as basically blue-collar people who got either lucky or “blessed”. This sometimes results in the “imposter syndrom”, where they engage in self-destructive behavior which brings them (and their ministry) down. (Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart come to mind). It also means that they are often searching for validation of their position in the secular world. Having a personal connection with important politicians or businessmen achieves that result. Finding themselves on private jets or boardrooms while politicians or businessmen ask for their advice can be a heady experience for them, and sometimes leave them craving more. (Jerry Falwell, etc.). At the very least, they often are unable to resist taking credit for the rise of a local politican or businessmen for whom they’ve prayed.
But it’s a two-way street. The benefits of the relationship are mutual. The politician gets votes and support from the church, and the businessmen often finds the endorsement of the local pastor helps him tremendously, especially in the early days of his business career.
But such a mutually co-existing relationship is frought with dangers, for both parties. For the pastor, it means that they can find their ministry absorbed into political agendas, or their church gradually being drawn into an offshoot of the local chamber of commerce. Both detract from the central (spiritual) purpose of the church.
It takes a very strong pastor to avoid such conflicts, and an even stronger one to control visiting speakers to make sure they don’t do the same. Pastors are continually struggling against guest speakers who go off on tangents which the pastor has to spend the next month or so trying to correct.
As for the parishiners/congregation, sometimes you just have to sit through it, test everyting which is being said against the scripture, and reject anything which is contrary to it. You can’t get up and leave everytime somebody says something you don’t agree with, if you did you’d never be in the same church for more than a few months at a time.
@7
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....n_iraq_war
Okay, she didn’t say “God’s work.” Instead she said “task that is from God.” I stand corrected.
@8 Pudge … Questioning someone’s capabilities based on their beliefs, whether religious, political or even practical does not make one a bigot.
The words she uses, the associations she has and the judgements she’s made based on those lead me to be very concerned about where she believes authority flows from in the United States. The Constitution is the authority here. I don’t care if she bites the heads off snakes as long as she can credibly admit that fact and live up to it. Will she put the Constitution before her god? Based on what I’ve seen, I don’t think so….
What am I doing here, then, if I think this is a hate blog?
I am here to fight the hate and intolerance.
Of course, if Todd Palin really does fuck moose skulls by candlelight, as the rumor goes, then one can hardly blame Palin for shopping around. So I’m going to withhold judgement for now.
@38
And Goldy remains silent.
I wonder what he’s trying to incite with his hate blog?
This Republican sleazeball was charged with “73 counts of possession of child pornography, 45 counts of sexual assault in the first degree for allegedly having sex with a child under age 11, nine counts of use of obscene matter with intent to seduce a minor, seven counts of display of obscene matter to a minor and two counts of employing a minor to do sexually explicit conduct. He was sentenced to 80 years”
http://www.times-news.com/loca.....00823.html
This has been another edition of “Puddy’s Heroes”.
@40
Bernie Ward was a Republican?
@41 Nah, his name is Wilton Frederick Bland. Wilton? Good grief. I bet he fucks goats too. I’m tellin’ ya, Troll, you gotta watch out for these Republicans. They’re a nasty bunch. Just take a look at Puddy and you’ll see what I mean.
Idiot@34:
No you were dreaming about Clay Aiken and figgered you would cover your tracks!
Goldy, her kids look as happy as yours.
You have become a harpie – spirit filled blessings in all religions are over the top.
Just what did they say when the cut the end of your dick off as a good Jew boy?
Nothing more than for the glory of God… oh sure.
Palin is a christianist, end-times-believing, young-earth, dumbass nightmare…mcshame’s campaign is a total clusterfuck, just like his administration would be.
And I though BUSH was incompetent. Holy shit!
@8
And it wasn’t Obama, it was his pastor saying “god damn America” on that video clip that your boys took out of context and plastered everywhere.
Go fuck yourself Pudge.
SeattleJew, you’re lying again. Unsurprising. You say, So tell me, howsit you went ballistic over Rev. Wright for saying outrageous things like …
But I never did. I defy you to come up with an example. I am pretty sure I have never written any post about Jeremiah Wright, and I’ve never gone “ballistic” about him in a comment.
I didn’t read the rest of your post, because, well, you’re a liar. Reading what you write is pointless.
Toll,
@28
My question went unanswered and all I seen was Hate and horrible language fitting for a cesspool. This tells me Obama is what other has said, a do nothing guy who thrives off of other to get ahead. He apparently only has his ½ blackness as a hedge to get him where he is today.
I’ll wait a little while more to see if his backers know why they’re backing him.
There are other blogs unlike this where real discussions go on with out the crudeness of children on the play field.
I never had seen such a blind view of politics, what’s funny is they really believe it.
Thank heaven for the gift of values and brotherly compassion.
rhp6033 Thanks for taking the time to write such a thoughtful and informative response. Having been raised catholic, I’m not really familiar with the interplay of politics and faith in the evangelical communities.
I’ve known many evangelicals who truly embody the spirit of christianity, but there are others like Muthee (as in any tradition) who use their ‘faith’ to assert power over and abuse others. It makes me very uncomfortable when that type of religious leader begins mixing politics and faith. Conversely, it just as great a concern when politicians actively seek the backing of religion to justify their policies — hence my concern about Palin.
Smartypants @ 49: I hope I didn’t leave the impression that the majority of evangelical pastors fall into that trap. But it does happen to some, and they have to be very careful to resist that path.
But it helps if you simply refuse to mix religion with politics or business. It tends to keep everyone in their proper sphere.
@49
“Having been raised catholic
politicians actively seek the backing of religion to justify their policies — hence my concern about Palin.”
Do you take part in communion every weekend?
Hey Wingnuts – Just “think” for a second if, instead of Palin, the video had Obama in. Just try… It’s hard work, I know. What would you really be saying then?
@43 “dreaming about Clay”
Projecting again, Pudnuts? You really should learn to control that shit.
I am not surprised to see such hate and intolerance directed at a black preacher like Pastor Thomas Muthee, considering this is a blog that: DOESN’T HAVE ANY BLACK MEN WITH POSTING PRIVILEGES; SUPPORTS A CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR WHO ONCE WAS THE PRESIDENT OF A SORORITY THAT DIDN’T ALLOW BLACK WOMEN TO JOIN; THAT RESIDES IN A NATION WHO ONCE HAD AS A CITIZEN SOMEONE WHO KILLED MARTIN LUTHER KING JR. ANOTHER BLACK PREACHER, BY THE WAY!
Troll 101:
Change the Subject
Make stuff up.
Project your hates onto others.
Type in CAPS!
@55
You wanna know the truth? I think that preacher is nuts. But no more nutty than your run of the mill preacher who doesn’t believe in witches, but does believe there’s some invisible being living in the sky who created the universe and all living creatures. That, to me, in all honesty, is just as nutty as believing in witches.
…But witchhunts are sooooo 400 years ago. This guy blamed a woman on car wrecks – he caused actual harm.
Here. Read this.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/.....index.html
This Muthee guy is from Kenya. Apparently in some parts of Kenya the majority of people believe in witches.
But that’s not the point. Palin was with this nut in church. He laid hands on her, or whatever it’s called. Dems want this to blow up into something because of what happened to Obama with the Rev. Wright controversy. I don’t think her base is going to care. Even with swing voters it might not stick to her. The difference is this guy popped in once to their church. Obama went to Wright’s church for 30 years. I’m not saying the witch thing is insignificant, but that’s how some will justify it.
No takers, guess Troll was right Obama is not worthy and not one of you on this blog knows why you support him other being 1/2 white.
Hell of a way to pick a President. You picked Carter for the same reason and look what he did to the nation then and today.
I’m going to wait for the debate then decide as talking to his supporters is like voting in dark.
I think that the people need a leader like Palin, who has all the political weight of a duck.
Because if a duck’s political weight floats, she must be made of political wood. And since wood burns, and witches burn, then, logically, Palin must be a witch burner.
And yes, she turned me into a newt….but I got better.
@60
Sweet!
@60
So politicians with little political experience, like congressman Abraham Lincoln, Obama, or Palin have no business running for president?
Suddenly, “free market” Republican sounds kind of like “Russian Peacekeeper”.
So how are all you Nationalist Socialist Republicans doing? Fighting hard for those bonuses for Wall Street titans?
Maybe you guys should get Sara Palin to put a hex on the upcoming economic downturn. Maybe a “pay per view” seance, to let us know how to value all the securitized mortgage instruments. Use the old chicken bones to reveal market conditions.
BAHAAAAAAAHAAAAA!!!!!
The Exorcist 4: President Palin’s economic miracle.
I see Cloris Leachman as Granny, Levi as Jethro, and Monica Lewinsky as Bristol.
And, of course, Graehme Greene as the wise great uncle that still lives in an igloo.
How afraid is the McCain campaign to have Palin debate?
McCain supporter Sen. Lindsey Graham tells CNN the McCain campaign is proposing to the Presidential Debate Commission and the Obama camp that if there’s no bailout deal by Friday, the first presidential debate should take the place of the VP debate, currently scheduled for next Thursday, October 2 in St. Louis.
John McCain – Cutting And Running on the Debates.
Hey “Adam”-
We don’t take on right-wing limp-dick morons like you.
Too easy…like shooting wolves from an airplane.
Adam @52
I gave up Catholicism for Lent several years ago and haven’t taken communion since.
Troll (at various points in this thread) asked why Goldy (and others) don’t post more positive things about Senator Obama, as opposed to the negative posts about Senator McCain and Governor Palin. (Similar comments could be made with regards to the gubernatorial race.)
Ok, I’ll rise to the bait.
First, although we really do like Senator Obama, most of the liberals here have already figured that out. Let’s face facts. It isn’t much fun sitting around saying what a great guy he is, and won’t work up much lather for this blog. “Obama’s a great candidate” ranks with “plane lands safely” in working up the faithful.
Next, there’s the frustration born of the fact that the
Palin/McCainMcCain/Palin campaign seems to be getting away with some amazing whoppers in their stump speeches and campaign ads.The MSM, in their attempts to seem unbiased, are either letting them go unchallenged, or doing some real stretching to compare out-and-out lies on important issues to really minor misstatements from the Obama campaign.
That type of “fairness” has frustrated a lot of us, and seems to have prevented a number of things regarding Senator McCain from seeing the light of day, as the MSM only seems willing to cover a McCain lie if they can also find something bad to say about Obama.
It’s frustrating from our point of view, and this is one place where we can not only get out the word (at least a bit) but can vent about the situation.
And it is, after all, a liberal blog.
@69
Smartypants,
Sorry to hear this although your parents must feel horrible about your choice.
I could tell by your writings.
I’ll take a guess your age is less than 40 if so you’re right around the corner to revert back to Christians values and become a Republican.
With that screen name like that I won’t add you directly in my prayer under that name but will find a way to add you.
One thought would be not to spend too much time on this site.
I’ve dropped in to see what the other side stands for. Seen enough and will be going back to reality.
God Bless
Steve@53: Yeah, you should be the one who needs control. Where is today’s edition of animal sex URL postings?
You have some strange fetishes for a 50 year old man!
I don’t think the hesitation some people have in answering is due to a lack on his part — more one on our part. Many people have short attention spans; it’s the kind of question that requires digging to answer; and there’s the McLuhanesque aspect (“I don’t need to memorize that stuff — I can just look it up online.”)
I’ll be honest. When I hire someone (and that’s essentially what we’re talking about — an election is the way We The People hire someone we delegate certain responsibilities to), I don’t always hire on the basis of a resume.
Sometimes, what matters far more is what the job candidate shows in the way of initiative, and how they would approach the job.
So, when I saw this interview with Obama in November of 2002, I was very impressed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXzmXy226po
At the time, he was a state senator, and not in Washington at all. He had no vested interest or ulterior motive in how he analyzed the situation in Iraq.
Yet he gets every detail right. The stark costs of an occupation. The possibility of civil war. The potential for Iraq to fly apart into factions of Kurds, Shias, and Sunnis — all three of whom he names.
He also says he would have voted Nay on the Authorization for Use of Force because of worries about giving carte blanche to the administration for a doctrine of preemptive strikes that he wasn’t sure set a good precedent.
As someone who admires the idea of limited government, this also has been troubling to me when it comes to Iraq.
And all this was six years ago, before we’d even invaded Iraq.
He nailed it. To an extent many in Washington today still haven’t caught up with.
(cont.)
That said, the two-edged sword of his relatively short time in the US Senate is that he doesn’t have as much of a record as others to look at. I still think that record is impressive, though:
* There’s been his ethics bill, which the Washington Post called, “…the strongest ethics legislation to emerge from Congress yet.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01456.html
* S. 2590 — Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006 — this created a searchable database of recipients of federal grants and contracts (at http://www.usaspending.gov/ ). I note that Sarah Palin called for this reform a few days ago — she didn’t seem to know Obama had already done it. I think this may be the most important site for citizen oversight since Newt Gingrich pushed through THOMAS a few years back.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/.....:s.2590.es:
(cont.)
* The Lugar-Obama proliferation and threat reduction initiative — it strengthened the Nunn-Lugar framework for securing loose nukes in the former Soviet Union, and extended it to securing and destroying stockpiles of conventional arms. Given your concerns about Russia, this might be of particular interest to you.
http://obama.senate.gov/press/.....obama_non/
* A bill aimed at stopping the abuse of no-bid contracts after Katrina.
http://obama.senate.gov/press/.....ss_to_pas/
(cont.)
* A bill requiring for states to prepare disaster evacuation plans that account for the needs of the poor, the disabled, and the elderly in the wake of Katrina.
http://obama.senate.gov/press/.....amendment/
* S. 1630 — the National Emergency Family Locator Act. Another post-Katrina bill that passed, one with obvious implications in the chaos of such emergencies.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:s.1630:
(cont. and end)
You say that no one answered you quickly. But this is a web forum, not a chat room, and the speed can vary depending on who is reading at the time.
There’s also the question of sincerity. I’ve seen an awful lot of people say, “What are his accomplishments?” — and then, when one lists them, one is told, “But none of that stuff matters — who cares?” I obviously can’t say if this matters to you. I can only say that it matters to me.
*^*^*
And then there’s the last thing, and it’s intangible. Again, it’s not the sort of thing one can easily list on a resume.
He gives fearful people hope.
I think one of the biggest problems of the last eight years has been the way fear and dismay have been encouraged from the very top. Do we have challenges and obstacles? Absolutely. But we could have approached them with confidence, thoughtfulness, and a sense that the common everyday citizen has a very real contribution to make.
That hasn’t happened.
I’ve been to an Obama rally.
He gives fearful people hope.
That quality alone goes a long way in my book, especially when people are so needlessly afraid. When added to what he’s been able to do in such a short time, I think he’s the person for the job. Especially compared to Mr. McCain, whose most recent major piece of legislation, McCain-Feingold, passed in 2002, before Obama got to the Senate. Since then, Mr. McCain has accomplished virtually nothing, besides a 24×7 campaign for President. Obama has done that, and accomplished much in the chamber besides. I think that speaks well about his ability to multitask — which, given the events of the last few days, is an important consideration.
michael:
And it wasn’t Obama, it was his pastor saying “god damn America” on that video clip that your boys took out of context and plastered everywhere.
Go fuck yourself Pudge.
Back at you, asshole. I never attacked Obama for that.
@72 “You have some strange fetishes”
Puddy considers someone outing Republican goatfuckers to have a “fetish”. But goatfucking itself? That’s not an issue with Puds. Such a weak attempt at deflection. The Church was once in denial too, Puds. I reckon it’s your turn. Face the truth, Puds, and get your mind right.
@73
Thanks for the very thoughtful response looks like you’re an open-minded person.
My concern about Obama is this. What I care about is Obama’s resume on what has he done in his past that makes him qualified for President of The United States while we have Russians, Iran, china, N.Korea, Terrorist and the middle East Arabs all looking to do us in. Which you didn’t address.
This is what concerns me, many others in our country is he going to sit back, and say call me if you need me like yesterday? Or due we have to elect him and find out he’s out of touch with our enemies.
@77
You forgot one of his bills,
http://www.suntimes.com/news/w.....25.article
Check out the educational background of Sarah Palin. She bounced amongst several unimpressive institutions with many differnet majors finally getting a degree from the U of Idaho, one of the worst rated universities in the country for retention after the first year.
Un-educated people tend to rely on religion and she worse than most. I do not want to hear any religious connections to our government and its decisions. God does not make these problems, people do. Keep your religion private, stop exploiting it and the rest of us in the name of your religious beliefs.
@77
NOBAMA was shamed into going to DC today.
Multitask? What read a teleprompter with two eyes? The only reason NOBAMA wanted the debate to go on was he spent 3 days trying to remember question to his response his memory span is short why else rely on a Teleprompter in the middle of a rodeo. Not only that but he refused to do any Town hall meetings with McCain so you wacko’s here can stop yelling about McCain ditching out of the Debate he did what he always said he would do put our Country before him. What did NOBAMA say call me if you need me? Some leader he is.
@80:
“My concern about Obama is this. What I care about is Obama’s resume on what has he done in his past that makes him qualified for President of The United States while we have Russians, Iran, china, N.Korea, Terrorist and the middle East Arabs all looking to do us in. Which you didn’t address.”
This is what I meant about sincerity — because I thought I did address it. The way this reads, it seems like there’s some super secret national security password you want me to say, and if I don’t I “haven’t answered the question.” Not being telepathic, I’m not sure what particular magical words you want me to say.
But to try to clarify:
* I think one the best things a president can do is accurately identify threats to us. My point in citing Obama’s 2002 interview is that he has a record of doing that, even when there was nothing in it for him (aside from the responsibility of every citizen). McCain has not shown he can do that.
* I mentioned the ability to multitask because the challenges we face are many — as you yourself list. This week, McCain has shown he can’t handle more than one problem at a time. Our enemies might not give him that luxury.
* And, frankly, this week in particular McCain has shown that he mostly operates out of fear. Perhaps it’s only because I haven’t seen him enough, but Obama has yet to show fear of anyone, foreign or domestic.
“This is what concerns me, many others in our country is he going to sit back, and say call me if you need me like yesterday? Or due we have to elect him and find out he’s out of touch with our enemies.”
I’ve seen that “call me if you need me” phrase a lot on boards that support McCain.
I have yet to see that as a direct quote of Obama, though. If you can provide it, please do.
(There’s another angle there, but I’ll post it below to “Patriot”)
@81:
“You forgot one of his bills…”
I didn’t forget it. I looked at it, measured it, and threw it out as politically inspired hackery.
Just like Pat Buchanan’s post about McCain’s corruption scandals:
http://buchanan.org/blog/2008/.....surfacing/
Or the Washington Times’ pointing out that many of McCain’s tax proposals would directly benefit his wife Cindy to the tune of far more than $100,000:
http://washingtontimes.com/new.....y-charade/
So, just like I think those attacks on McCain are “small beer,” to use an old fashioned phrase, I think the post you link regarding Obama is small beer. {shrug} Your mileage may vary.
@83:
“(Obama) refused to do any Town hall meetings with McCain…
Yup. Which he did in negotiations weeks in advance.
Obama didn’t agree to a debate and then get cold feet 72 hours beforehand, the way McCain did.
“…so you wacko’s here can stop yelling about McCain ditching out of the Debate…”
Tell you what, I’ll make you a deal: I’ll stop calling McCain a coward when he stops acting like a coward. OK?
There’s no question he was brave once upon a time. But in 2008, John McCain is so afraid, and so uncertain of his own merit, that he can’t stand up to not only Obama but David Letterman(!)
“What did NOBAMA say call me if you need me? Some leader he is.”
As I said above, I have yet to see this directly quoted. I’d be happy to be proved wrong.
Still, it’s a fascinating comment, if he did make it. Because it’s in the spirit of Ronald Reagan and conservative, limited government. If you don’t need to call on him, why should you?
For someone who’s been accused of thinking he’s a messiah, it strikes me as a very humble statement — if he in fact made it.
OK, here we go. It took a bit of searching, because the original quote has been remarkably distorted, like a game of telephone, but…
Here’s a YouTube video of the clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrmhOOyO2oI
Here’s a transcript:
http://www.realclearpolitics.c.....n_eco.html
The basic Reaganesque nature remains the same though. Remember the sign on his Oval Office desk? “There is no limit to what you can accomplish if you don’t care who gets the credit.”
@47 pudge
Really??? You never criticized Obama fro his friendships? I must be thinking of another pudge,
SeattleJew: no, you were not thinking of someone else, you were just lying. As usual.