A Seattle Police officer punches a 17-year-old girl after stopping a group of teenagers for jaywalking.
The video at the bottom of the post makes it pretty clear that the teenagers were resisting arrest – and while punching a teenage girl was probably ill-advised – the officer certainly had a right to take action (in fact, he deserves credit for not using a taser or pepper spray). But the bigger question here is why we’re still trying to ticket people for jaywalking:
Criminalizing something as common and useful as jaywalking—criminalizing an environmental positive like jaywalking—invites selective enforcement and civil-rights abuses. I’m not saying that yesterday’s unpleasantness is a clear-cut case of police brutality, although that punch-to-the-face was pretty brutal. All I’m saying—besides “jaywalking: good”—is that yesterday’s unpleasantness could have been avoided if the cops hadn’t have stopped those girls in the first place.
That cop needs to retake his restraint and takedown class. Or maybe talk to Congressman Bob Etheridge.
The problem here is the configuration of the street and surrounding buildings, which encourage people to cross at-grade in a place where traffic is relatively high-speed and dangerous.
This has been a dangerous area for pedestrians for years. Rather than criminalize people for making choices encouraged by the environment, we should fix the environment. Put in an at-grade crossing where people cross anyway. Use lights and yellow paint and a raised surface. Put another crossing at the intersection of Rainier and MLK to provide another option for pedestrians and to slow down traffic as it enters the next couple of blocks. Consider street-level parking for that stretch, and/or bike lanes to slow down cars. Encourage multi-story development instead of the sprawl that’s there now, which will create a pedestrian-scale experience and slow down cars.
And then, watch as people cross legally or jaywalk safely, so that you can stop wasting enforcement time and focus it on more pressing matters.
You told us to vote for McGinn. It’s his police department. You told us Democrats are better.
Were you wrong or did you lie?
I can’t believe anyone would be stupid enough to suggest that jaywalking be legalized. Then hey, maybe we should make it legal for drivers to run stop signals. Great idea! /sarc off
I’m as ambivalent as you on this one, Lee. I don’t think cops should spend a lot of time enforcing jaywalking…but once a cop tells you to do something (so long as it’s legal) you need to listen. Messing with a cop is just sooooo stupid.
It comes down to how you choose to enforce things. If someone does something really stupid and creates a hazard jaywalking then by all means cite them. If they didn’t create a problem, then leave them alone. Drivers roll though free right turn stops and speed all the time without getting cited.
****************************
Yeah what #2 said.
@3
You admire shoddy police work?
No place can call itself truly urban if it tickets jaywalkers.
By the same token, the sense of absolute entitlement displayed by pedestrians in Seattle is also a mark of the place’s non-urban nature. Bad enough that they’ll cross in front of cars backed up in an intersection, thereby exponentially increasing the backups. What truly burns me is when pedestrians crossing while a car is waiting to make a right turn will obviously and intentionally slow to a saunter to make the driver wait all the longer. Drivers here often look at me in shock and confusion when I wait for them to make their turn before starting to cross the street.
Give me New York or Philadelphia or Boston drivers and pedestrians any day of the week. Each side has a healthy urban respect for the other.
Every few years this issue arises here.
The problem is that Seattle DOES enforce the laws with respect to motorists ceding the right of way to pedestrians. But that only works if there is at least a reasonable period of time when pedestrians DO NOT cross the street. Once pedestrians ignore the walk/don’t walk signs and cross at any time they choose, it leaves the motorist in a position of creating gridlock (stuck in an intersection), not moving at all through several lights, or barging through the crosswalk regardless.
So every few years, the Seattle police have mounted an enforcement effort, which is limited in time and usually confined to the downtown corrider and specific problem areas. After an initial rash of tickets people get the message and jaywalking dies down. Of course, a police officer can always issue a ticket anytime he sees an offense.
What I’m wondering about is whether the teenage girls didn’t understand this, and thought they were being singled out for harrassment. That might explain their actions.
But as was said before, surrounding a police officer, yelling at him, and pushing him is a supremely bad decision. If they thought such conduct was going to force him to back down, say he changed his mind, apologize for the inconvenience, and let them go, then they are living in a dream world. It NEVER works out that way in the real world.
@3,@5
Did either of you actually read my post?
@6
Absolutely. Anyone over the age of 13 should be able to cross a city street without interfering in traffic. As an east coast driver, I will sure as hell honk at pedestrians who jaywalk and impede traffic, but it’s a waste of resources and an invitation for crap like this to occur when officers start trying to write people tickets for it.
@9
After an initial rash of tickets people get the message and jaywalking dies down.
It does?
@9
What I’m wondering about is whether the teenage girls didn’t understand this, and thought they were being singled out for harrassment. That might explain their actions.
I’m rather certain it does. There’s a certain level of ingrained fear of the police among the black community. And much of it is well-justified by real-life events, even if a majority of the officers out there aren’t a problem.
So having a police officer stop you for illegally crossing the street would seem awfully fishy to someone who’s conditioned to believe that the police are simply looking for an excuse to do bad things to them. Hell, if I were stopped for jaywalking, I’d think that. Not because I thought the cop was a racist, but because I’d think the cop was a petty asshole. That’s why it’s so dumb to have so many little laws like this that do very little (or in the case of jaywalking, nothing) to improve public safety.
Jay walking tickets are pretext and harassment stops by definition. Evidence – the arbitrary and capricious enforcement of that law.
Well, at least for a little while.
What @9 said.
There’s no indication the police officer was giving tickets until the teenager refused to comply with the officer.
There should be street level crossings, overhead walkways are a joke.
punk ass teenager.
@15
Punk ass frat boys.
http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=76&sid=331846
@16
maybe.
There is an pedestrian overpass at that location(built as part of the sound transit rail project). Lazy kids didnt want to use the million dollar foot bridge provided to their community?
This behavior seems typical of many teenagers now – especially in that area.
Showing off his(?) latent racism, Chongo @18:
Hell, it’s typical of teenagers forever, in any area.
When I was a teanager, I crossed a busy street just before reaching my high school. I would try to time my jaywalking to see how close I could get to the cars as they went past.
@19
racist? not at all – just looking at the facts as they present themselves:
This girl has been arrested previously for…drum roll please…assault on a police officer.
Your post @18 talked about crossing at grade rather than on the overpass.
I hardly think a juvie rap sheet for assaulting a cop is “typical of many teenagers”, not even in “that” area.
@17
Just messin’ with ya.
@21
I am referring a general disrespect for police or authority.
@23
Um, no, you weren’t. In fact, the comment is still right there for everyone to read. You were making a comment about kids “in that area” being too lazy to take a footbridge. N correctly pointed out that that comment was either racist or absurd.
@24
interpret it how you want..I dont give a fuck.
you go ahead and keep on keeping on with your dislike of police. maybe next time you can do a little research and get all the facts before looking like the fool.
kinda funny to see Dan Thavage get owned on his own site.
lol…
Say “F-U” to a cop, get your ass beat.
I like that.
Watch the video on KIRO’s web site. The dumb bitch walked up to the cop and shoved him. She deserves what she got.
Jaywalking should remain illegal. Should I have to watch out for idiots more than I have to now? There are enough suicidal cyclists out there. We dont need to add pedestrians being equally as stupid in the road.
That’s been going on periodically for quite a long time now. When we were going to school in SoCal in the 70s, my husband visited his mom for a few days when her 2nd husband died. He jaywalked in Pioneer Square and walked into Elliott Bay Books. A couple of cops followed him into the bookstore, cuffed him and put him in jail. Not what his mom wanted to deal with right at the moment.
(He’s white, and was in his 30s at the time.)
re 27: She shoved the cop and knocked him off balance a little — so he slugged her full force in the face? You think that’s good police work?
I don’t. I doubt the cop that did it does either. Must have been stressed — a forgiveable incident and hopefully not repeated.
An officer or simply a man who likes beating women?
drool you’re an idiot
Bonita,
So who th ehell is going to pay to fix my car when some idiot becomes a hood ornament?
I’m glad the Seattle PD has it’s priorities straight.
I finally got a chance to see the whole video.
One of the things you have to remember is that an officer making a stop, even for jaywalking, doesn’t know what sort of situation he’s about to confront. Once he establishes the offender’s ID, he/she might find that the person have outstanding warrants for any number of offenses, some quite serious. This gives some people the motive to go to some extremes to avoid getting to the point of giving ID and being confined (handcuffed or in the back of a patrol car). So any indication that the person is non-compliant to instructions should set off warning bells in the officer’s head.
In this case, the suspect’s not acknowledging his orders to stop, and resisting even a patdown to check for weapons, means he should be aware that trouble is likely. I noticed that every time the gal wiggled an arm free, he immediatley tried to control both hands – obviously he was concerned about his safety since the suspect hadn’t yet been frisked, and his own weapon might have been at risk.
Now, kudos to the guy in the light blue shirt that tried to keep the other gal from getting involved. He grabbed her arm and tried to hold her back for a while, then after he released her she dove in to try to intervene for her ‘bud. After shoving the officer and then being hit in the face in response, the same guy pulled her back and out of the scene for a while. If she had any sense she would have dissapeared, but apparantly not, she stuck around long enough to be identified and arrested later.
If the suspect had been a guy, most officers would have rather quickly forced him to the ground and made sure he was compliant, with at least a knee to the back or a sleeper hold. It seems to me the officer was being reluctant to use that much force with the initial suspect. It was probably a mistake on his part, because that left him exposed and outnumbered in his confrontation with the other woman. If someone had taken that opportunity to make a grab for his gun, the results wouldn’t have been pretty.
My guess is that his supervisors are going to tell him that he should have (a) used more force at the beginning to flatten the initial suspect and get her under control (perhaps using his taser), and (b) perhaps he should have backed off and called for backup before it got out of hand.
But my vote is with the cop on this one. Other situations can vary quite differently depending on the circumstances, but in this case, the cop didn’t do anything wrong.
I’m puzzled as to why the officer didn’t take the original girl he’s tussling with down. That looks like it could have been a quick and easy take down and cuffing instead of a two and a half minute fight with punches thrown.
Considering what’s going on I wouldn’t fault the cop for throwing the punch, but I do wonder if that could have been handled differently.
This wouldn’t happen in Chicago, but if for some quirk it did, a spokesman for the police officers union would have immediately been on point telling everyone to go fuck themselves. They publicly stick up for their members without fail; not so much here.
I have trouble with the “environmental positive” aspect when I sit on my bus traveling north on THird and it waits for several light cycles to turn right while jaywalkers go through the Don’t Walk signal and block our passage.
@39
It’s always such a breath of fresh air when you come by. Thanks for stopping in!
@38
umm….the head of the policeman’s union(??) has pretty much come out and done that. Good for him.
@40
jaywalkers love global warming. :P
…but then again, so do I.
Lee and co would have shot the poor woman. The punch was effective; short term pain, got rid of possible need for officer to shoot or taze anyone.
@40
The original comment at #39 was removed as off-topic.
@39
And our traffic should flow more like NYC, where no one pays attention to the “walk/don’t walk” signs, but drivers are allowed to have the balls to inch their way slowly through a pedestrian throng. Here, you can get ticketed for jaywalking or for driving through the crosswalk with people nearby. In the end, you have too many overly passive drivers clogging up the streets.
In 2008, 11,423 white women were raped by black men. In that same year only 2 black women were raped by white men.
Let that sink in.
@46 ROTFLMAO. I admire the SPD too (mother f**king hard job). But just curious if you’d like to provide a link to that “evidence”, other than your favorite KKK bookmarked website. I mean a “real” source. Did that come from the FBI or state police? Link please. (not holding breath, facts not being the strong point of “belief” driven conservatives)
As for the main point, sure jaywalking is silly, MOSTLY a danger to just yourself, though you can cause a car accident that could kill someone else (as they swerve to avoid you).
But this “incident” is 100% clear. If you’re a cop having confrontation with 3 people who are swearing at you, and one of them comes from behind and grabs your shoulder, you CAN ABSOLUTELY pivot and punch them in the face. 100% justified. Sure you can sit here and GUESS that it was a poor innocent little girl who just wanted to get the kind officers attention to thank him for doing his job, or maybe she was going to grab his gun and shot him in the head. He didn’t know. He didn’t know WHY someone was grabbing him. You NEVER grab a cop. Ever. End of story. If he’s in the wrong (you weren’t jaywalking or whatnot) you use WORDS, your big girl words to discuss it politely, or just take the ticket or whatnot and argue it to the judge. But wrestling a cop is NEVER EVER the right thing to do.
@46
It’s generally my policy not to allow any of your imaginary statistics “sink in”.
@46 Not waiting for more wacky made up conservative “belief” crap, here’s some FACTS.
Remember you’re most likely to be raped by someone you know (friend family) and therefore someone of the same race. It’s about 50%…see below.
Of “black” rape victims, 43% had black offenders, meaning the other 57% were white (or asian). Maybe that 57% (which is almost always reported as simply “not black” and therefore not put any any specific category were Eskimos? Yeah, that’s it!)
Golly, I love it when conservatives like “Troll” are caught (always) just making shit up for their magical “belief” systems.
————————-
The U.S. Department of Justice compiles statistics on crime by race, but only between and among people categorized as black or white. There were 194,270 white and 17,920 black victims of rape or sexual assault reported in 2006. Out of the 194,270 cases involving white victims, 50.6% had white offenders and 16.7% had black offenders, while the 36,620 black victims had a figure of 43% black offenders (1)
(1) http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/conte.....us0602.pdf
@49
So the question for Troll is this:
What’s your motivation for posting fake statistics? To a thinking person, someone who makes up statistics in order to ascribe criminality to a particular race is clearly a racist. If you had another reason for doing so, please explain. Otherwise, your complaints about being called an ignorant racist will continue to fall on deaf ears. You are an ignorant racist.
@49 “making shit up”
Googling around, it looks like this is a white racist rant that’s going around. I won’t offer a link to that trash, but there’s some hilarious shit concerning their so-called proof. It’s something akin to Puddy’s links to nowhere.
Cross walking is against nature.
Micah 6:8”what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? “
It is not humble to walk against the lights or outside the lines put their to protect your lives.
As Haman said of those who would flout the law, # Esther 3:8 “There is a certain people dispersed and scattered among the peoples in all the provinces of your kingdom whose customs are different from those of all other people and who do not obey the king’s laws; it is not in the king’s best interest to tolerate them.”
Speaking of Esther 3:8, we could use a thread on Kirkland’s wingnut mansion squatters.
http://crooksandliars.com/davi.....foreclosed
Wingnut mansion squatters! Too funny.
“A Seattle Police officer punches a 17-year-old girl after stopping a group of teenagers for jaywalking.” This statement is not accurate. The 17 year old inserted herself into police business in a clear attempt to prevent the officer from doing his job and liberate her friend. It would be more accurate to say: “17 year old assaults police officer in attempt rescue friend who was detained by officer.”
I always thought jaywalking laws were a safety measure to reduce injuries and deaths among pedestrians. Hell, just crossing with the “walk” sign in a marked crosswalk is plenty dangerous! Jaywalkers not only endanger themselves, but also impede the orderly flow of traffic, and can cause accidents if a motorist has to slam his brakes to avoid a jaywalker, resulting in a pileup behind him. I say ticket ’em, and if they assault the officer, cart ’em off to jail. Both of the girls in this incident have prior criminal records, and the 17-year-old who was punched by the cop was previously arrested for assaulting a police officer. This girl apparently likes to slug cops, so nobody should feel sorry for her.
@54
This statement is not accurate. The 17 year old inserted herself into police business in a clear attempt to prevent the officer from doing his job and liberate her friend.
Maybe you should read past the first line of my post because I say that immediately afterwards.
# 53: Gee, I’ve heard some preachers use the “name it and claim it” theology, but that’s really crazy!
important to note: the cop did not punch the girl for jaywalking. he punched the girl for obstructing “official police business”
if the girl only restrained herself from going psycho native hatchet woman she might have saved herself that black eye.
@ 56 I did read past your first line, and still I took issue enough to post. Your lead is far to leading! I’m sure it got you lots of hits which is great for traffic unlike jaywalking. Since, you yourself recognize what happened, and still write it up as if the officer just punched someone after he stopped them, well we both know what you did and its worthy of Geraldo or OReily. Way to trash a nice blog!
@59
and still write it up as if the officer just punched someone after he stopped them
What the hell are you talking about? I provided the context right within the post. I realize that you’re a Buckeye, but even you should be smart enough to figure that out.
To quote Dave Ross:
Taxpayers put up a pretty expensive bridge, but if the kids find it so inconvenient they’d rather take their chances dashing through traffic…….,
Hmmm, maybe Dave Ross is racist?
@60 It has been 2398 days since Michigan’s last victory over Ohio State in football, and it will be even more before you get one up on me. You backed into the meat of the story with a sensational opening headline War on Jaywalkers, followed by the stand lone line about an officer punching someone, only after you got the polarizing sensationalism out there, did you get into the body of things. Granted the article was short enough, that we all took your meaning pretty fast. While you did get into the context of it, you were selective with the priorities of what is potentially divisive story if not accurately portrayed. After reading the first bit of your post, I had the same bad taste in my mouth that I did after seeing King5 cover the story yesterday morning. It was all about a “punch”line to tweak the viewers with no appreciation for the seriousness of seeing a selected clip of an officer throwing a blow. In a city with no police chief, that is still dealing with an unwarranted beating by an officer, I think we are are due that much sensitivity.
UPDATE and press release from SPD Officer’s Guild:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37.....nd_courts/
This girl got what she deserved. You DO NOT INTERFERE with police and their duties, and you sure as hell get what you deserve if you are brazen or stupid enough to put your hands on them. She got “punched” not for jaywalking, but rather (clearly) for assaulting the Officer. The Officer was there for “jaywalking” complaints at the request of people in the area. Apparently they were not using the overhead walkway/bridge as they should have. So all this started as a public safety issue and escalated quickly. Simple.
Of course, little cop-hating cunt Lee is probably having a fit over all this. Try and spin it.
Good day all.
I lived aboard a boat near the area this regrettable incident occured. Every morning and every afternoon lazy kids ignore a perfectly functional footbridge put up at great expense soley to slow traffic. I was a teenager once, and know there is a sort of immature joy in inconveniencing others out of spite, one which thankfully most of us grow out of. In any case it was infuriating to see these insolent kids slow traffic for no reason whatever every damn day.
If the neighbors and users of that road called the SPD to try to get the idiot kids onto the bridge and off of the road, good on them and on the SPD. If the kids had no more sense than to antagonize and threaten an officer in the pursuit of his duty, it’s a shame they didn’t bring about 20 more cops down and arrest every malingering one of them and teach them a lesson in basic civics.
Lee, thanks for not pretending this was racist or police brutality. I get that you think pedestrians are more important than vehicles, but really, that’s why they built the bridge.
Huh? Our faux-libertarians are defending the nanny-state bridge?
Steve,
Nope. That wasn’t the topic, so I didn’t get into whether paying millions of dollars so that a bunch of kids don’t have to wait 45 seconds for a crosswalk is a good use of taxpayer money. Additionally, I’m not a taxpayer as such in Seattle. They can close perfectly good lanes of traffic to cars for the 15 or 20 bikes an hour to have a dedicated bike lane on Stone Way for instance. Seattle can, and does, do a lot of stupid things with regard to their transportation budget. Not really my concern.
Since the bridge is there, the kids have no excuse whatever for not using it.
All of the community leaders who immediately came on TV and the Radio to decry the racist tactics of the police need to NOW come out and thank this officer for doing his job. They should invite him to a community meeting where he is thanked and applauded for attempting to make their (our) streets safe.
I am sick and tired of hearing all the negatives about the police. It’s a tough job, made tougher by people siding with these juvenile delinquents. Furthermore, what were these kids doing out of school and on the street anyway? Oh wait, they are juvenile delinquents with rap sheets, who do nothing more then hang out on streets causing problems all day.
To quote Mr. Lebowski “get a job sir”.
community leader = lazy fucking scam artist/poverty pimp/race baiter
@66 “Since the bridge is there, the kids have no excuse whatever for not using it.”
Eh, I went to Franklin. I used to take my cars down to where the east end of the bridge is to steam clean the engines. I caught the bus home from school where the west end of the bridge is located. I’ve crossed Empire Way/MLK at that location a zillion times. An excuse for not using it? I’m with the kids here. Fuck that bridge. That’s excuse enough. And fuck whoever complained to the cops. Who the fuck in their right mind would live down there anyway? That’s a shit hole. Hell, I bet it was probably just some gentrifying, commie-fascist, rat-fink blogger from Philly.
These kids are in high school, correct? This video should be linked as a response to anyone who tries to blame public school teachers for the problems in our educational system.
Punching a teenager in a face, especially when she’s just starting to be a woman is very inappropriate. The officer needs to take anger management class and to control himself. Even if he didn’t use a taser or other form of restraint, he should always ask that the situation be carefully monitored so violence won’t break out, and always ask for assistance, from fellow officers to try to reenforce calm. Acting aggressively isn’t going to help prevent such violence like the one happened there. Also, to try and injure a teen with a blow to the face when the teen is just acting confused at the whole situation is stupid. That is not the job of an officer to inflict injuries at a helpless teenager. There is also a possibility that an officer could be sued if he attempts to use an unacceptable amount of force to bring this young woman back to her senses.
Lee, as you do at least 85% of the time, you get this 100% right. If police did not arrest the chicken for crossing the road, why not leave the 17-yr-old girl alone too?