We’re faced with a Godawful budget hole, and there are no good options. The best thing to do would be to just deficit spend, like mad until the economy goes right. But since that’s off the table, Gregoire will push a sales tax increase. It’s regressive and doesn’t raise enough, but it’s better than losing services.
So, my question is what would you like to see in the special session? More taxes? If so what taxes? What specific cuts? Even though it’s budget related, they can pass whatever they want, so is there some other area you’d like to see them work on while the session is going on?
Is there a link to list of the items are in the budget
The subsidy for bull seed comes to mind. That could go.
A year ago, the gov said raising the sales tax was the worst thing the state could do in a down economy. She even stated that raising the sales tax would hurt the economy,
Now a year later she changes her mind….AGAIN.
how the hell anybody can believe what she says is beyond me.
I would like to see an official declaration of class warfare. Enough is enough.
That’s not a good plan as there’s no guarantee that the economy is going to “go right.” Personally, I think we’re going to be in a smaller economy for the duration. The economy got as big as it did over the last 30 years through economic bubbles and accounting tricks, not growth in real wealth.
We seem to have a misguided notion that “cuts” equal savings. However, most of the time what cuts do is simply shift the burden for paying for things from the state government to other entities, put off paying for things like road maintenance so that we’re paying more for something later on, or just externalize costs as if if we’re not paying for something that cost no longer exists.
We need to get rid of this notion that cuts equal savings.
The first thing we need to do is get a true and honest accounting of what owe. How much does homelessness in Washington really cost us? How much is the backlog of maintenance at state parks, state forests, roads, bridges, rail networks, colleges and universities costing us? How many people do we have working for state subcontractors at sub living wage levels? We need to know how much would it cost us to get everything the state has responsibly over fixed up and to have it running at 100%.
Then we need a stiff drink. Maybe three.
I don’t think we can truly say we need more taxes, less taxes, spending cuts, right now because I don’t think we know how much we owe or how much it really costs to run the state of Washington.
I think if we knew the true numbers we’d be staggered. Its got to be huge. We’re going to need to make a run to Costco for a bottle before continuing.
Back to the original question as best as it can be answered.
In the short run we’re going to need to raise capital and that means taxes. But, we’ve got to be clear that taxes exist to raise capital for the state and that capital is an investment in the state and it’s people that will payoff over time. If you can’t make that argument you shouldn’t be in Olympia. Which rules out half of the Democrats in Olympia. They can go the fuck home.
So how do we raise more capital for the state? In the short term by taking a look at all the sales tax exemptions.
http://dor.wa.gov/Content/Find.....tions.aspx
We’re currently giving a tax break for the coal fired electric plant down in Centralia to fuck up our air: 82.08.811 Then we’re turning around and paying more and more in health care costs do to fucked up air. Huh? That’s fucked and it needs to stop. The list goes on and on take a look for yourselves.
In the long term we need to move to the Gates Tax Structure Study Committee’s plan which would do away with our stupid B&O tax, implement a state income tax, and give us more capital to work with.
We say we need cuts, shit I just wrote that we also need cuts and had to backtrack. We don’t need cuts, we need savings.
Right now we’d get most of our savings from reinvesting in the state and it’s people. Calls to cut out Washington Basic Health are insane. Yes cutting Basic Health cuts XXXX dollars from the state budget, but it would also raise our costs! Those costs would just go else where, they wouldn’t go away. Healthcare will be more expensive for all of us if they cut Basic Health. Yes it would cost us all a little more in the short run to make sure that everyone in Washington State had health insurance and access to a doctor, but it will lower our cost in the long run, it will make people more productive at work, kids more productive at school, it lowers the cost of chronic illnesses like diabetes and heart disease. Chronic illnesses and an aging population are the largest drivers of our health care costs right now and cutting basic health would make both of those go up.
Our state forests and state parks are in shambles and people decide to move here and to base their companies here based on our natural beauty and “quality of life.” We’ve pretty much fucked our natural beauty and “quality of life.” I think places around the country that developed before us, trash their place before us and then crashed and are now coming to be beautiful again are going to take those beauty and quality of life crowns away from us. We need to enact a “Wild Washington” tax and start a dedicated outside of the general fund to care for our state parks and DNR lands. I think the state legislature has more than proven that they can’t be trusted to care for the family jewels. Taking care better care of our parks and forests would bring more people and money into the state.
Schools are huge cost to the state. We need to look at how to get savings from them. I have a few relatives that are teachers and every one of them says they’ve got “administrative bloat” at their schools and districts. I would note that administrative staff have already been getting cut for the last couple of years and that the state is already moving to combine some school districts, but it sounds like there’s more to be done on that front.
Schools are huge energy users and so upgrading heating, cooling, windows, lighting and such can result in huge savings. We do need to be careful about getting sucked into nebulous “green” schemes. We need to be looking at proven, simple, off the shelf stuff.
In transportation moving as much trucking to freight rail as possible will free up space on the freeway and cleanup the air, saving us some cash on health costs. We need to be investing in freight rail in a big way.
We need to drop our fungible and nebulous plans for light rail south of the airport. We don’t know when it will get built, we don’t know how much it will cost, we don’t know how to pay for it, and let’s face it it would be running through a big, trashy, fucking toxic, wasteland. There’s no redeemable urban fabric between the airport and Tacoma. Axe that fucker. Replace it with BRT running from Tacoma to Seattle in a dedicated lane on I-5. Right now the buses slow when the rest of the traffic on I-5 slows, but you can fix that by making the inside lane bus only.
The next thing we need to do with transportation is invest in contraction. We need to look at what’s going on in places like Detroit, Flint, and Youngstown, and realize that if we’re going to have an affordable transportation system and livable cities we’re going to have to stop investing in expanding the fringes and getting people to live in towns and cities. Right now most of the “city” of Gig Harbor where I’m at is developed at 6 units an acre. Which isn’t city or town densities and quite frankly my neighborhood would be improved if the city would let some of the vacant lots and lots with teardown homes on them be split into. It would also mean that I could have more small shops within walking distance of my home. In other worlds my neighborhood in town could actually be in a town. Fucking genius. Bring this up with most of our city council and they freak.
Most of the land in the rectangle between the airport and Tacoma and The Sound and I-5 needs to revert to what it was when I was a kid: small farms.
A word on state employees. The state has shed a ton of employees over the last couple of years and if you look at the size of the government on a per capita or any other relevant measure we’re doing OK. I would like to see voluntary buyouts of state employees that are nearing retirement an people who’ve been with the state for over 30 years with the state pushed out. Those people are high earners who don’t really need the job and their also low spenders. We should be moving younger people who need the work and would be spending a higher % of their income into those jobs.
@1
They’re right here.
http://dor.wa.gov/Content/Find.....tions.aspx
Nobody does.
#6
really? her lies were exposed during the last election, and the drones voted her in anyway.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Now onto Gregoire…
You all gladly got what you voted for. Dino Rossi told everyone this was coming and y’all ridiculed him. As Puddy told all you HA leftists… just write a fax tax check to help Gregoire out! Personally I don’t care what she decides! Remember I am in the minority in this state!
@7
What do you expect, the guy she was running against was an even bigger lier.
The WSRP like to think it’s the victim of uber liberal urban Washington, but really it loses races because it runs nut jobs and crooks.
@9
you know what, that excuse is tired and worn out. You need to come up with something different.
The current gov and her legislature have fucked this state up one side and down the other – I find it hard to believe anybody could do worse.
That dog dont hunt no more…..
D’s in charge of EVERY piece of state govt, and you dillholes STILL blame everyone but yourselves(for electing them) and the rest of the incompetent democrats for the shambles this place is in.
and then the progressive fools have the gall to blame big business, when big business is the only thing keeping the state on life support.
bite the hands that feeds you dumbasses…
@10
What’s worn out is the WSRP running the same cazy mofo’s year after year and offering no real challenge to Democrats who are mostly mediocre at best.
What’s also worn out is Democrats lining up to vote for the same mediocre candidates, because they’re better than the other guy instead of running against the mediocre fuckers.
It’s late and this is getting into off topic bomb throwing so I’m headed for bed.
I laid out some of what I’d do @4 (most of which neither party would vote for) it’s time for the right to respond in kind or shut up.
I look forward to reading your responses in the morning!
@2 She’s taking into consideration the fact that Washington residents have received GIGANTIC multi-billion-dollar reductions in the sales taxes they pay as a result of not buying big-ticket items like cars, home furnishings, and appliances. So this isn’t actually a tax increase — it’s only a smaller TAX CUT.
@4 “That’s not a good plan as there’s no guarantee that the economy is going to ‘go right.’ Personally, I think we’re going to be in a smaller economy for the duration. The economy got as big as it did over the last 30 years through economic bubbles and accounting tricks, not growth in real wealth.”
This is basically correct. The question is, how long is the “duration”? Here are some clues:
1) We’re looking at another 5 years or more before the housing market works off the overhang of foreclosed properties.
2) The Federal Reserve is planning for higher unemployment — possibly 13% — if Europe collapses, which looks increasingly likely.
3) The jobs that were supported by consumers spending make-believe money they didn’t have created by make-believe credit that doesn’t exist anymore won’t ever return.
4) If consumers, after they work off their debts, decide to permanently ratchet down their spending in order to save more — and they pretty much have to because their retirement nest eggs have shrunk — that’s more jobs that will never return.
5) The tough economy is creating a “baby bust” among 20-somethings and 30-somethings, which translates into less demand for nearly everything farther down the road.
@8 And you think this would be a better state if Rossi was governor right now? Shee-it.
@10 “That dog dont hunt no more….”
You should change your screen name to “wishful thinking.” This is, and will remain, a blue state.
@11 Yeah, we criticize Democratic electeds when they let us down, but the disappointments on our side don’t improve the personnel or dogmas on your side a damn bit, do they?
We wish we had better Democrats, but the worst Democrats are still a damn sight better than the best Republicans.
So there you are, shilling for a useless party and a lost cause.
To #13: If it’s something that NEITHER party would consider doing, it’s probably a great idea.
Close tax loopholes and institute an income tax. Fully fund public universities.
Fund Public Universities…Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha…20% increases in tuition yr after year will cause students to not enroll. Eventually their madness Teacher and Union salary’s and benefits will have to be lowered.
5% financial transaction tax on short term (owned less than 5 years) trades for incomes above 50k.
10% if owned less than a year.
Repeal the sales tax exemption for “chemical and fertilizer sprays” worth ~80 million (DoR link @4). Yes, Ms. Taxpayer, we do indeed subsidize the application of poison on our food.
Repeal the “assumed loss” tax credit for fuel handling, worth ~100 million (DoR link @4). Yes, Mr. Taxpayer, we subsidize the sloppy, careless handling of fuels. But wait, it’s worse than that: We pay them even if they don’t spill anything (that’s what “assumed loss” means).
And many, many more.
If you’re thinking we are going to return to anything like the growth economy of 2006 and prior, let me be the 1st to say: It’s not going to get “better” — ever.
It’s all about managing contraction from here on out.
really? her lies were exposed during the last election, and the drones voted her in anyway.
It’s your fault.
When you republicans ever get out of your ideological quagmire and offer up a candidate who is not a deal breaking social conservative, you will get the governorship for a while.
Thanks for the exemptions link.
Because I think the broad category of Health-Related Purchases is the best thing on the list, that is the only set of exemptions I would generally keep
There are also other items I would like like
Housing for youth in crisis
Michael was on a roll. I like #4. However our Democrats don’t have a ball to share between them.
As for the screed “she lied.” Talking about a dog that doesn’t hunt anymore. That doesn’t. Keep your head in the sand and pretend that an unregulated Wall Street had not one damned bit to do with it. Economic growth was changed forever in the early 1980s. Real growth and real wealth has been marching out of the hands of the middle class ever since. Political power, regardless of party is responsible. You’re savior isn’t the other guy in the other party. It is now only the lesser of two evils.
The establishment within both parties does not let us run better candidates. The perception would be that we’ve lost confidence in current office holder and so no one will get the funding to run against any current office holder within the same political party.
What has to change is voter stupidity in thinking that because some knucklehead has a D or an R after their name they are better than the previous candidate.
The people currently occupying office in the state legislature suck. Each and every one of them. There is not one single person worth keeping. In addition to a crap economy we have legislators who can’t think beyond a short list of 2 or 3 scripts. They are far more worried about keeping their ass in office than doing the business of the people.
Take for example, the new building in Olympia than now serves as the office of enterprise services or some such. According to my friends that work in general government, the cost that the new formulation of DIS will charge their agencies to house the work they did for themselves will be quite expensive and more expensive than it would be to hire the same people on private contract. Stupid.
Apply that to other things in state government. If you have to travel, there are state contracts with specific car rental companies and airlines. You have to use that regardless of whether or not you can find a cheaper ticket or car somewhere else.
I work for one of the 4 year colleges. We can’t go to Staples to buy a printer or a copier, or a chair…we cannot shop around for the best price. We have to use the internal people who stack on costs as “auxilary services” which pays their own salaries and costs. And so we pay literally twice as much for the product.
If you host a conference or a meeting and want to actually feed people, you must use the on-campus food service that serves moldy cookies, undercooked food and serves it late on a routine basis because the college has an exclusive contract with them. You can’t go out and hire a private caterer or cook who would do it better and more cheaply. You must use the more expensive service.
Like the unused cell phone story, there are so many like this. The problem is enormous but the legislature is uninterested in details and doesn’t know. All they know is X amount goes to salaries and benefits and costs for each agency and the internal stuff is irrelevant.
How much would we save if we got rid of the sole source contracts (which is hell to do yourself if you want to do a contract with someone) and instituted a policy that agencies and the departments within them could search for the best service and the best price for getting their publications, their equipment, their travel, their services?
At present, the state of Washington supports the public universities at far less than 50%. At my own, the current rate is 35% of our funds come from the state. There is a proposed cut of an additional 16-17% for the special session.
In my department, we have a private grant to build a small carving shed 30″x40″. We budgeted $120,000 to do it. The estimate came in at $320,000. Why? Because of all the rules around building on state property that are ostensibly about regulation and safety. However a big chunk of the budget goes into this mystery pot for permits and other costs. It’s crazy. Even with an option to build basically a pole barn with corrugated steel walls and roof would cost more than $120,000. That’s crap.
Part of it is due to the fact that the architect never bothered to mention that the features we wanted (heat and a concrete floor and a sink, walls and a roof) were unreasonable at the budget we had. And he said “well in other university projects, when the price comes in higher they always find the money.”
Yeah, my note book for meetings are the back sides of other documents that we no longer need and I’ve cut them in 1/2 to use the other side. We pay for a lot of our office supplies out of our pocket because the grants we have are for specific projects and not goods and services. Our budget has been chopped in 1/2.
The architect was clueless about all of that, and apparently the tight budget we had. So there is also a few private business people that are used to ripping off the state. So we have to have rules in place that allows states to cut ties with these sorts as soon as it is clear that they are not serving our best interests as taxpayers.
US and global fertility rates have been on a downward trend for a long time. The Great Recession just increased the trend.
http://www.google.com/publicda.....#038;dl=en
@27
Thanks.
@28 Not that the U.S. or world need more people, or anything. They don’t. There are too many humans now — we need less humans and ore rabbits. You never can have too many rabbits! Make rabbits, not war!
The problem isn’t just quantity of housing. Many of the houses that are sitting empty were built in the wrong places- their too far from urban centers and jobs, they’re too big- They were built for large families that we don’t have anymore, and they’re going to be too expensive to maintain.
Old Eisenhower had a Plan to pave over all the land…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg-VhWg6ywA
Check this out. Not exactly what they had in mind when all those North Dallas Specials were going up.
Just institute a one time 10% wealth tax on all wealth over 1 billion. Deficit solved. For years.
Zotz @23 and Lauramae @27 have the right idea in that they’re both producing real savings and generating more operating capital for the state. In Zotz’s case you have cost savings in a healthier people and environment and in Lauramae’s you have savings for the schools and shopping at local stores which generates local taxes, employs more people, and keeps money inside the community.
You’ve always got to keep your eye on those multiplier effects.
Craigslist is a wonderful site! Barter is the new way of the land. Oh and I’ll make sure when I go pick up something I’ll send in the sales tax! :) hee hee
@27
laura cites many examples of why people like me are sick of sending our money into the govt.
nothing but pure waste.
Translation: I’m voting Republican now, Republican in the future, Republican always.. A Republican in the State House means a future of landowners and serfs! But I’m really pulling for a Republican in the White House.. They start WARS! Those are kewl! I get to watch shit blown up on Faux News!
@30:
Try telling the Australians that. :-)
For Gregoire it’s anything but standing up to the State Employee Union!
Sales Tax increase was terrible according to her last year…now it’s good.
Typical Tax and Piss Away leftist. Hold tear-jerking programs hostage for yet another tax increase that will hurt working families the most.
Idiot. Cut State Employee Wages, Benefits and all that paid time off. It’s ridiculous. Cutting the paid time-off will allow more layoffs.
If Rossi were Governor, we would have 5,000 less State Employees and the remainder would be paid 10% less than they are now, have 20% less benefits and get 50% less paid time-off…like the real world.
And we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
41 – That’s working out great in Wisconsin – state government by the rich, for the rich, only the rich..
Ohio??? Oh my!
the “real world” in raw numbers is communist China..
Two guys sleeping on a filty mattress working 12 hours a day 6 days a week eating cabbage, rice and grease..
Harvesting tomatoes in Alabama sounds humane by comparison.
Nice ideals on the right..