It looks like this is going to be a busy week for me. There are a number of drug war related stories happening across the state that I want to follow, but I definitely want to address this editorial that appeared on the Tacoma News-Tribune editorial page last week. Specifically this part:
California was already becoming notorious for effectively legalizing recreational dope-smoking through its extremely lax medical marijuana law. Washingtonians were offered their own loophole-riddled marijuana initiative in 1997, and they resoundingly rejected it.
The one they did pass the next year, Initiative 692, was explicitly designed to forbid the California-style dispensaries that operate like commercial marijuana shops. Its sponsors touted its safeguards, including a provision that let a “primary caregiver” provide limited amounts of marijuana to a patient under conditions that precluded drug-dealing.
The key language required a caregiver to “possess no more marijuana that is necessary for the patient’s personal, medical use” and “be the primary caregiver to only one patient at any one time.”
The meaning seems crystal clear: No multi-customer operations. But McCrea and other dispensary advocates have seized on those last four words. In their view, it sounds like, “any one time” means any time a buyer walks through the door.
Accept that logic, and Washington takes a long step toward the wide-open drug-dealing now rampant in California, where some compliant doctors hang out their shingles near dispensaries and pass out marijuana cards to anyone with a vaguely plausible physical complaint.
There’s one point I can’t argue. Marijuana is essentially legal in California right now. The list of qualifying conditions that a person can obtain it for in that state is long enough that any recreational user can become a medical user. Depression, insomnia, whatever, there are doctors throughout the state that will – for a fee, of course! – certify you as a medical marijuana patient. And just about anyone who has used marijuana recreationally discovers that it has some side medical benefits as well, so it’s not hard to tell a doctor, “Yeah, it helps me sleep”, or “Man, it really gets rid of my stomach aches”.
People can complain all they want that this full-scale legalization happened under the guise of ensuring that sick people can have access to a medicinal plant that they find extremely valuable, but that’s irrelevant now. What we see now is that nothing really changed. All of the reasons that were given for not simply legalizing it for recreational use in the first place weren’t valid. Marijuana is legal there, and it has made no difference in how that state functions (or malfunctions). We haven’t seen any huge spikes in use, and in fact the percentages of teenagers who use marijuana in California have been dropping sharply since the medical marijuana laws were put in place.
That point aside, the major flaw with the News-Tribune editorial is that it just assumes that implementing a dispensary system in Washington will turn us into California. There’s no basis for that observation. Washington has a far more limited set of ailments that allow a person to become an authorized patient. I could easily become a medical marijuana cardholder in California, but would not be able to here. Without that long list of accepted ailments, recreational users in Washington would still have to obtain marijuana from criminal organizations. And for reasons that make absolutely no sense to anyone, this appears to be the way that the idiots at the Tacoma News-Tribune want it.
In all of the arguing over the law and hyperbole about what’s happening in California, it’s the folks who use medical marijuana for truly serious ailments who are once again forgotten. Today, I spoke on the phone with the woman at the center of the Grant County case, Rosa Dossett. Living in a very rural part of the state, obtaining supplies of marijuana is not a trivial task, so she relied on her son to grow for her. Her son, David Hagar (who Dossett says does not even use marijuana himself), has been raided twice by Grant County police (he’s also accused of theft). Grant County police also allegedly told Dossett that even with her authorization, she’s still not allowed to use marijuana. If that happened as she said, the police simply lied to her.
Dossett is a cancer survivor and suffers from osteo-arthritis. Her main medical use for the drug now is to manage the constant pain from osteo-arthritis. Unlike a lot of other drugs, the effectiveness of a pain reliever is pretty clear to people. If a pain reliever doesn’t work, you know damn well that it doesn’t work. That’s why I’m always amazed when I see people questioning the efficacy of this drug. Dossett has found that she prefers marijuana to drugs like Hydrocodone because it’s natural, more effective, less chemically addictive, and it can be grown for far less money than what prescription pharmaceuticals cost. Unfortunately, the language of the medical marijuana law allows a judge to decide whether pain patients can use marijuana instead of a pharmaceutical alternative.
It shouldn’t be up to judges or the police to decide which medicines we choose to use. That should be left up to doctors and patients. Some of the leading researchers when it comes to using marijuana for medicinal purposes are based right here at the University of Washington. Here’s a recent study from the Journal of Opioid Management by six UW researchers on the numerous studies showing the efficacy of marijuana. The question of whether or not people in this state with a legitimate medical need should have access to this plant for medical uses has been settled in the minds of the electorate for over ten years. It’s the responsibility of both the Legislature and the Governor to finally translate that legitimacy into a system that works.
UPDATE: It appears that SeattleJew decided to check in from his land of merry make-believe in an attempt to discredit the authors of the Journal of Opioid Management report linked above. One of the researchers, Dr. Sunil Aggarwal has responded with a comment here listing out references to 33 separate clinical trials that have demonstrated the value of marijuana as medicine.
UPDATE 2: Attorney Douglas Hiatt emails me to say that the law does not allow a judge to substitute their medical opinion for a doctor’s, and he expects the court ruling I linked to above to be overturned.
Thanks for speaking the truth on this, Lee.
As a medical marijuana patient, I really prefer that the police and judicial system not try practicing medicine. Me and my doctor don’t need anyone else horning in on those decisions.
It’s about time we in Washington recognize that patients should have safe, legitimate access to medical marijuana. To make that all but impossible through ignoring the spirit of the law is nothing short of cruel obstructionism.
Lee continually misuses science. His posts on medical marijuana rival Hannity’s on global warming.
Why do I bother responding? I actually fully support legalization, Less wants folks to inhale carcinogens? As long as the folks are warned of the risk and do not subject others to the stuff, that is fine by me. Personally, I think we should just legalize THC .. no apparent toxicity and easily addes to booze or brownies. Hell I can imagine a neato drink .. NW Irish “Coffee?”
BUT, I take misuse of science by our side abhorrent. If we want to have real issues .. global warming, effects of bad stuff in our food, limits to ouil production, etc etc … the Lee’s efforts are as bad as anything the Beckistas do.
Let me just giove one new example, He proufdly cites an abvastract of Sunnil’s thesis as is it proved Medical MJ was a good idea. IK have read the thesis and skimmed this review, neother does anything of the sort.
Moreover, this is hardly the crew of scientists one would look to a authorities:
Here are the six authors:
Sunil K. Aggarwal, PhD, MD Candidate, Medical Scientist
Training Program, University of Washington, Seattle,
Washington.
Medical Student, doing a OhD in Geographic Epidemiology
Gregory T. Carter, MD, MS, Professor, Department of
Rehabilitation Medicine, University of Washington, School
of Medicine, Seattle, Washington.
author of ten articles on marijuana, most are opinion pices, none has original research.
Mark D. Sullivan, MD, PhD, Professor, Department of
Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences and Department of
Bioethics and Humanities University of Washington School
of Medicine, Seattle, Washington.
No original papers in the field, this is his only paper at all. Expertise seems to be in bioethics.
Craig ZumBrunnen, PhD, Professor, Department of
Geography, University of Washington, Seattle, Washington.
Richard Morrill, PhD, Professor Emeritus, Department of
Geography, University of Washington, Seattle, Washington.
Geography
Jonathan D. Mayer, PhD, Professor, Departments of
Epidemiology, Geography, Global Health, Medicine, Family
Medicine, and Health Services, University of Washington,
Seattle, Washington.
epidemiologist, expertise in geographuc epidemiology, no previous papers on this subject, noi expertise in pharmacology or pain management or anesthesia (i.e. relevant fields)
The TNT’s editorial board are a bunch of turds. They’re for anything and everything as long as nothing ever changes.
Wanna pay for healthcare? Legalize pot, distribute it thru legal channels like liquor, and tax it. The money made from taxes and not having to fund wasted enforcement would pay a massive chunk of healthcare reform.
Wanna save the forest through the trees?
Legalize the growing of hemp, marijuana’s distant cousin.
hemp for Victory!
“If people let the government decide what foods
they eat and what medicines they take, their
bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls
who live under tyranny.”
-Thomas Jefferson
@3 Michael
I do not know much about this journal. What does it have to do with the “TNT?”
What Lee’s audience needs to understand is that anyone with a few bucks can publish a journal.
This journal is pretty obscure and as far as I can see it is of so little standing that it is not in the UW collection.
Here is the result of search at UW:
This does not say that Sunnil’s thesis and the review are not of interest, they just do nothing to support Lee’s hyperbole.
If you care you can help fund the studies that are grounded in actual sourced science around the world. Support MAPS and real long-term ongoing research into medical marijuana. If, on the other hand, you are really only interested in supporting Big Pharma then you will shriek ad nauseum.
I have no objection to anyone funding any research. However, the evidence for something magical in marijuana is pretty weak compared to higher priorities for research spending.
There are amazing advances going on immunology, vascular biology, stem cell research, MRI, combinatorial chemistry, genetics, ….
Real progress is being made against neglected diseases, thanks in part to Billy Gates.
I suspect MJ research is only of importance for those who want to prove the stuff is baaad or those who think MJ stands for MaJic.
Frankly, even for those who need or want THC, it wold be a lot easier to just make THC legal than to add one more inhaled carcinogen to the list of stuff we poison ourselves with. If the Medical MJ community were sincere in their concern for sick people, they would push to legalize THC por at least provide it in more accessible forms.
Michael sez
Yeah, weren’t they in the tank for Kerry in 2004 and Obama in 2008?
SJ one doesn’t have to smoke marijuana. It is commonly eaten by many of those who have chronic conditions that it relieves. If my recall is correct it was commonly found in medical kits as Cannabis tea up until the late 1930s and as such it was not smoked.
The real problem is the judicial system and cannabis. Far too many low income people are pawns in a game where the only purpose is to employ lawyers, police, judges and prison guards, etc. Very seldom do you see the well to do caught up in the judicial system because of the drug laws.
Lets admit it. It’s a damn jobs program today and was originally intended by Nixon to get back at those who were against the Vietnam War and protested his adminstration’s tactics.
I don’t speak for Lee. I am for full legalization.
@8 I am for legalization too. However, as I see it this is not just an issue of abuse of poor folk .. the anti pot crowd actually believes that mj leads to terrible things. Just look at the commercials advising Mom and Dad how to save their kids form thsi evil thing.
Why do the antiu pot folks believe this shit? They believe it because it has been given a government imprimatur as fact, as science.
When Lee touts MJ as a magical medicine, he commits the same sin that he objects to in the pot fearing righties.
Science, modern science, obviously can be misused … A bombs, bio terror, neurotoxic gasses … all of that. BUT, science as fact should not be ever misrepresented because the truth is the only defense we have against those who want to abuse us all and do not give a damn about the consequences.
If we do NOT insist on truth, we have no protection against the young earthers, no global warmers, intelligent designers, food faddists, etc. Hell folks, we might as well be RepubliKKans.
OHO .. I gets it … TNT .. Tacoma News Tribune. A “newspaper.” Didn’t they used to have a lot of those things? Had something to do with the popularity of porn advertising?
Mis-representation of Science; Slander of Expertise
Dr. SeattleJew,
You have steeped to a new low. Instead of our credibility, why don’t you attack the Journal of Opioid Management? They do peer-review. They don’t publish by popularity. They are a leading international journal in the field of pain management.
As far as expertise is concerned:
Aggarwal:
National Science Foundation Graduate Research Fellow
Designated Expert Reviewer for AMA report on Medical Cannabis
Conducted NIH/NCCAM Certificate of Confidentiality-supported Human Studies on Medical Cannabis Use–original research
Carter:
hundreds of peer-reviewed papers
Senior Associate Editor of Muscle and Nerve Journal
Original Medical Cannabis Dosing Paper has been cited by the United Nations
Sullivan:
Former director of multidisciplinary pain center
highly regarded in field of pain management and health-related quality of life outcomes measurement
Morrill:
Major political geographer
drew WA state district lines
started quantitative revolution in geography
first work showing health care access travel distances
ZumBrunnen:
urban ecology
That marijuana has a medical use is not due to magic. It’s due to cannabinoid medicine. The American College of Physicians, which represents 124,000 physicians, recognizes this. You once said that you endorsed their report on this matter.
I will paste here 33 controlled clinical trials–this is not magic–it’s evidence-based science and medicine. Go ahead and call all these journals, investigators, and patient-subjects make-believers. See how far your credibility goes on this subject.
1. Ellis RJ, Toperoff W, Vaida F, et al.: Smoked medicinal
cannabis for neuropathic pain in HIV: A randomized, crossover
clinical trial. Neuropsychopharmacology. 2009; 34(3): 672-680.
2. Wilsey B, Marcotte T, Tsodikov A, et al.: A randomized,
placebo-controlled, crossover trial of cannabis cigarettes in neuropathic
pain. J Pain. 2008; 9: 506-521.
3. Corey-Bloom J, Wolfson T, Gamst A, et al.: Short-term
effects of medicinal cannabis on spasticity in multiple sclerosis.
60th Annual Meeting of the American Academy of Neurology,
Chicago, IL, 2008. Available at http://www.cmcr.ucsd.edu/geninfo/
jcb_aan_poster.pdf. Accessed April 28, 2009.
4. Abrams DI, Jay CA, Shade SB, et al.: Cannabis in painful
HIV-associated sensory neuropathy: A randomized placebocontrolled
trial. Neurology. 2007; 68: 515-521.
5. Abrams DI, Vizoso HP, Shade SB, et al.: Vaporization as a
smokeless cannabis delivery system: A pilot study. Clin
Pharmacol Ther. 2007; 82: 572-578.
6. Haney M, Gunderson EW, Rabkin J, et al.: Dronabinol and
marijuana in HIV-positive marijuana smokers. Caloric intake,
mood, and sleep. J Acquir Immune Defic Syndr. 2007; 45: 545-554.
7. Wallace M, Schulteis G, Atkinson JH, et al.: Dose-dependent
effects of smoked cannabis on capsaicin-induced pain and hyperalgesia
in healthy volunteers. Anesthesiology. 2007; 107: 785-796.
8. Haney M, Rabkin J, Gunderson E, et al.: Dronabinol and
marijuana in HIV(+) marijuana smokers: Acute effects on caloric
intake and mood. Psychopharmacology. 2005; 181: 170-178.
9. Abrams DI, Hilton JF, Leiser RJ, et al.: Short-term effects of
cannabinoids in patients with HIV-1 infection. A randomized,
placebo-controlled clinical trial. Ann Intern Med. 2003; 139:
258-266.
10. Soderpalm AH, Schuster A, de Wit H: Antiemetic efficacy of
smoked marijuana: Subjective and behavioral effects on nausea
induced by syrup of ipecac. Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2001;
69: 343-350.
11. Abrams D, Leiser R, Shade S, et al.: Short-term effects of
Cannabinoids on HIV-1 viral load. [abstract no. LbPeB7053].
Poster, XIII International AIDS Conference in Durban, South
Africa. July 9-14, 2000; 13: 45.
12. Greenwald MK, Stitzer ML: Antinociceptive, subjective and
behavioral effects of smoked marijuana in humans. Drug
Alcohol Depend. 2000; 59: 261-275.
13. Greenberg HS, Werness SAS, Pugh JE, et al.: Short-term
effects of smoking marijuana on balance in patients with multiple
sclerosis and normal volunteers. Clin Pharmacol Ther. 1994;
55: 324-328.
14. New York Department of Health study, 1990. In Musty RE, Rossi R: Effects of
smoked cannabis and oral9-tetrahydrocannabinol on nausea and emesis after
cancer chemotherapy: A review of state clinical trials. J Cannabis Ther.
2001; 1: 29-56.
15. Research Advisory Panel: Cannabis therapeutic research program.
Report to the California Legislature, 1989. In Musty RE,
Rossi R: Effects of smoked cannabis and oral d9-tetrahydrocannabinol
on nausea and emesis after cancer chemotherapy: A
review of state clinical trials. J Cannabis Ther. 2001; 1: 29-56.
16. Foltin RW, Fischman MW, Byrne MF: Effects of smoked marijuana
on food intake and body weight of humans living in a
residential laboratory. Appetite. 1988; 11: 1-14.
17. Foltin RW, Brady JV, Fischman MW: Behavioral analysis of
marijuana effects on food intake in humans. Pharmacol
Biochem Behav. 1986; 25: 577-582.
18. Behavioral Health Sciences Division: The Lynn Pierson
therapeutic research program. Health and Environment
Department: New Mexico, 1984. In Musty RE, Rossi R: Effects of
smoked cannabis and oral d9-tetrahydrocannabinol on nausea
and emesis after cancer chemotherapy: A review of state clinical
trials. J Cannabis Ther. 2001; 1: 29-56.
19. Behavioral Health Sciences Division: The Lynn Pierson
therapeutic research program. Health and Environment
Department: New Mexico, 1983. In Musty RE, Rossi R: Effects of
smoked cannabis and oral d9-tetrahydrocannabinol on nausea
and emesis after cancer chemotherapy: A review of state clinical
trials. J Cannabis Ther. 2001; 1: 29-56.
20. Board of Pharmacy, State of Tennessee: Annual report:
Evaluation of marijuana and tetrahydrocannabinol in the treatment
of nausea and/or vomiting associated with cancer therapy
unresponsive to conventional anti-emetic therapy: Efficacy and
toxicity, 1983. In Musty RE, Rossi R: Effects of smoked cannabis
and oral d9-tetrahydrocannabinol on nausea and emesis after
cancer chemotherapy: A review of state clinical trials. J
Cannabis Ther. 2001; 1: 29-56.
21. Kutner MH: Evaluation of the use of both marijuana and
THC in cancer patients for the relief of nausea and vomiting
associated with cancer chemotherapy after failure of conventional
anti-emetic therapy: Efficacy and toxicity, as prepared for
the Composite State Board of Medical Examiners, Georgia
Department of Health, by physicians and researchers at Emory
University, Atlanta, 1983. In Musty RE, Rossi R: Effects of
smoked cannabis and oral d9-tetrahydrocannabinol on nausea
and emesis after cancer chemotherapy: A review of state clinical
trials. J Cannabis Ther. 2001; 1: 29-56.
22. Department of Social Oncology, Evaluation Unit, State of
Michigan: Marihuana therapeutic research project, 1982. In
Musty RE, Rossi R: Effects of smoked cannabis and oral d9-
tetrahydrocannabinol on nausea and emesis after cancer
chemotherapy: A review of state clinical trials. J Cannabis Ther
2001; 1: 29-56.
23. Chang AE, Shiling DJ, Stillman RC, et al.: A prospective evaluation
of delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol as an antiemetic in
patients receiving adriamycin and cytoxan chemotherapy.
Cancer. 1981; 47: 1746-1751.
24. Merritt JC, Crawford WJ, Alexander PC, et al.: Effect of marihuana
on intraocular and blood pressure in glaucoma.
Ophtalmology. 1980; 87: 222-228.
25. Chang AE, Shiling DJ, Stillman RC, et al.: Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol
as an antiemetic in cancer patients receiving high
dose methotrexate. Ann Inten Med. 1979; 91: 819-824.
26. Crawford WJ, Merritt JC. Effects of tetrahydrocannabinol on
arterial and intraocular hypertension. Int J Clin Pharmacol
Biopharm. 1979; 17: 191-196.
27. Greenberg I, Kuehnle J, Mendelson JH, et al.: Effects of marijuana
use on body weight and caloric intake in humans.
Psychopharmacology. 1976; 49: 79-84.
28. Tashkin DP, Shapiro BJ, Frank IM: Acute pulmonary physiologic
effects of smoked marijuana and oral A9-tetrahydrocannabinol
in healthy young men. N Engl J Med. 1973; 289: 336-341.
29. Hill SY, Schwin R, Goodwin DW, et al.: Marihuana and pain.
J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1974; 188: 415-418.
30. Tashkin DP, Shapiro BJ, Frank IM: Acute effects of smoked
marijuana and oral d9-tetrahydrocannabinol on specific airway
conductance in asthmatic subjects. Am Rev Respir Dis. 1974;
109: 420-428.
31. Tashkin DP, Shapiro BJ, Lee YE, et al.: Effects of smoked
marijuana in experimentally induced asthma. Am Rev Respir Dis.
1975; 112: 377-386.
32. Vachon L, Fitzgerald MX, Solliday NH, et al.: Single-dose effect
of marihuana smoke: Bronchial dynamics and respiratory-center
sensitivity in normal subjects. N Engl J Med. 1973; 288: 985-989.
33. Hollister LE: Hunger and appetite after single doses of marihuana,
alcohol, and dextroamphetamine. Clin Pharmacol Ther.
1971; 12: 44-49.
Sunnil
WADR ..
before charging me with “slander” I suggest you find an attorney who understands what the term means. Your buddy Lee has come awfully close to crossing that line several times.
My conern is hardly with dissing your PhD, it is with misrepresenting science and dissing a lot of awfully good people who deliver healthcare despite the efforts of people who push “alternative” medicine.
As for the journal, your article is listed BY THE JOURNAL as a review. Moreover, if this is a major journal why is it not in the regional medical library? I was also unable to find it among the rates journals in the SCI. What is its citation index?
Your other colleagues are, as I said, experts in geography and epidemiology. FWIW I am an expert in blood vessels .. and how is either relevant?
As for Carter. I did look at his CV before I made my post and if it is not true, then show me where he has written a significant paper on original research in mj? Here is the list of his mj papers from PubMed:
1: Aggarwal SK, Carter GT, Sullivan MD, ZumBrunnen C, Morrill R, Mayer JD.
Medicinal use of cannabis in the United States: historical perspectives, current
trends, and future directions. J Opioid Manag. 2009 May-Jun;5(3):153-68. Review.
PubMed PMID: 19662925.
2: Aggarwal SK, Kyashna-Tocha M, Carter GT. Dosing medical marijuana: rational
guidelines on trial in Washington State. MedGenMed. 2007 Sep 11;9(3):52. PubMed
PMID: 18092058; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC2100129.
3: Carter GT, Mirken B. Medical marijuana: politics trumps science at the FDA.
MedGenMed. 2006 May 17;8(2):46. Review. PubMed PMID: 16926785.
4: Aggarwal S, Carter GT, Steinborn JJ. Clearing the air: what the latest Supreme
Court decision regarding medical marijuana really means. Am J Hosp Palliat Care.
2005 Sep-Oct;22(5):327-9. PubMed PMID: 16225351.
5: Carter GT, Ugalde V. Medical marijuana: emerging applications for the
management of neurologic disorders. Phys Med Rehabil Clin N Am. 2004
Nov;15(4):943-54, ix. Review. PubMed PMID: 15458761.
6: Carter GT, Weydt P, Kyashna-Tocha M, Abrams DI. Medicinal cannabis: rational
guidelines for dosing. IDrugs. 2004 May;7(5):464-70. Review. PubMed PMID:
15154108.
7: Amtmann D, Weydt P, Johnson KL, Jensen MP, Carter GT. Survey of cannabis use
in patients with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. Am J Hosp Palliat Care. 2004
Mar-Apr;21(2):95-104. PubMed PMID: 15055508.
8: Carter GT, Weydt P. Cannabis: old medicine with new promise for neurological
disorders. Current Opinion Investig Drugs. 2002 Mar;3(3):437-40. Review. PubMed PMID:
12054093.
9: Steinborn JJ, Chinn AK, Carter GT. The latest buzz on medicinal marijuana: a
legal and medical perspective. Am J Hosp Palliat Care. 2001 Sep-Oct;18(5):295,
298. PubMed PMID: 11565181.
10: Carter GT, Rosen BS. Marijuana in the management of amyotrophic lateral
sclerosis. Am J Hosp Palliat Care. 2001 Jul-Aug;18(4):264-70. Review. PubMed
PMID: 11467101.
2. As for the rest of the list, what is your point?
Aggarwhal: Yes you got a degree in geographic epidemiology. That hardly makes you and expert in pharmacology.
For the non scientists here, let me point out that Sunnil’s list does not address the issue I raised. That issue is this:
As fort your list of papers …
If I were to pull the equivalent silliness, I coluld list thousands of papers showing the real issues with inhalation of carcinogens. I doubt anyone here would read them.
I have made this challenge before ….
1. show me evidence that marijuana smoke contains ingredients that are beneficial to patients other than THC or evidence that RHC must be inhaled with the carcoinogens in smoke.
2. show me evidence that MJ smoke is not carcinogenic despite having high concentrations of carcinogens.*
As I have offered Lee, anytime you want to stage a debate in this topic, I am open to a reasonable time and place. I will even buy your beer.
*and yes we both agree that there is one intriguing study … built that needs to be measured against a vast literature on the dangers if inhaled carcinogens.
FWIW
Nobody ever called me Dr. SeattleJew before!
Hmmmm … I think everyone here knows my real name, CDR Schwartz, USNR.
Lee and the land of merry make believe …
Hmmmm …
One of us inhales carcinogens and believes that is safe. That person is not bothered by children being forced to inhale the stuff. Same person thinks hospitals should permit smoking as long as the smoke comes from cannabis and not tobacco.
One of us does not think inhaling carcinogens is likely to be a good thing.
Since Sunnil thinks folks here like to read ponserous scientific literature, I recommend:
Effects of marijuana smoking on pulmonary function and respiratory complications: a systematic review.
Tetrault JM, Crothers K, Moore BA, Mehra R, Concato J, Fiellin DA.
Clinical Epidemiology Research Center, Department of Veterans Affairs Connecticut Healthcare System, West Haven Veterans Affairs Medical Center, 950 Campbell Avenue, West Haven, CT 06516, USA. jeanette.tetrault@yale.edu
BACKGROUND: The relationship between marijuana smoking and pulmonary function or respiratory complications is poorly understood; therefore, we conducted a systematic review of the impact of marijuana smoking on pulmonary function and respiratory complications. ….. All 14 studies that assessed long-term marijuana smoking and respiratory complications noted an association with increased respiratory symptoms, including cough, phlegm, and wheeze (eg, odds ratio, 2.00; 95% confidence interval, 1.32-3.01, for the association between marijuana smoking and cough). Studies were variable in their overall quality (eg, controlling for confounders, including tobacco smoking). CONCLUSIONS: …..Long-term marijuana smoking is associated with increased respiratory symptoms suggestive of obstructive lung disease.
BTW Archives of Internal Medicine is a top journal.
Here is a variation on Sunnil’s tactic of listing papers:
Clin Toxicol (Phila). 2009 Jul;47(6):517-24.
Chronic toxicology of cannabis.
Reece AS.
CONCLUSION:
Chronic cannabis use is associated with psychiatric, respiratory, cardiovascular,
and bone effects. It also has oncogenic, teratogenic, and mutagenic effects all
of which depend upon dose and duration of use.
Evaluation of the DNA damaging potential of cannabis cigarette smoke by the determination of acetaldehyde derived N2-ethyl-2′-deoxyguanosine adducts.
Singh R, Sandhu J, Kaur B, Juren T, Steward WP, Segerbäck D, Farmer PB.
Chem Res Toxicol. 2009 Jun;22(6):1181-8.
In conclusion, these results provide evidence for the DNA damaging potential of cannabis smoke, implying that the consumption of cannabis cigarettes may be detrimental to human health with the possibility to initiate cancer development.
J Clin Pharmacol. 2002 Nov;42(11 Suppl):103S-107S. Marijuana smoking and head and neck cancer. Hashibe M, Ford DE, Zhang ZF.
A recent epidemiological study showed that marijuana smoking was associated with an increased risk of head and neck cancer. Among high school students and young adults, the prevalence of marijuana use was on the rise in the 1990s, with a simultaneous decline in the perception that marijuana use is harmful. It will be a major public health challenge to make people aware of the harmful effects of marijuana smoking, when some people view it as the illicit drug with the least risk. The carcinogenicity of delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) is not clear, but according to laboratory studies, it appears to have antitumor properties such as apoptosis as well as tumor-promoting properties such as limiting immune function and increasing reactive oxygen species. Marijuana tar contains similar carcinogens to tar from tobacco cigarettes, but each marijuana cigarette maybe more harmful than a tobacco cigarette since more tar is inhaled and retained when smoking marijuana. More molecular alterations have been observed in bronchial mucosa specimens of marijuana smokers compared to nonsmokers. Field cancerization may be occurring on the bronchial epithelium due to marijuana smoking exposure. Several case studies were suggestive of an association of marijuana smoking with head and neck cancers and oral lesions. However, in a cohort study with 8 years of follow-up, marijuana use was not associated with increased risks of all cancers or smoking-related cancers. Further epidemiological studies are necessary to confirm the association of marijuana smoking with head and neck cancers and to examine marijuana smoking as a risk factor for lung cancer. ….
@16
That person is not bothered by children being forced to inhale the stuff.
Excuse me?
Slander much?
It is long past time to realize that marijuana is not nitroglycerin and legalize its use. The laws against marijuana were passed during a bad time in the country’s history and reflect scaremongering and prejudice that is totally un-American.
Lee
I have mentioned this before.
There were a large number of children at Hempfest and the air was thick with smoke.
Was I wrong to assume that you and others in the MJ community did not see this as wrong?
What would you say if Rush Limbaugh held a cigar aficionados steak dinner at Ruth Chris in the cigar room and invited folks to bring their kids?
Perhaps you did not see the kids or read my comments? Perhaps I have not read of your concern for this issue?
Look, my stand on all this is pretty simple. I have no objection to legalizing mj. The law is foolish. BUT, I do object when you go on a tirade because some hospital or physician prevents inhalation of mj as part of a therapeutic decision.
I would have no objection to promoting research into other effects of MJ. Indeed, before you objected, I had sent you some papers on positive effects of MJ, including the role of cannabanoid receptor in pain and possible roles in immunology.
Hell, as an obese person I certainly would like to read good reasons about why being fat is not a terrible thing!
Bottom Line
I think this effort by you and others on the liberal side of issues, hurts the claim of liberals to rationality.
@20 Politicall Correct
I utterly agree. If tobacco, booze, nyquil, nodoz, and Starbucks are legal so should pot be legal.