I visited the new Sculpture Park yesterday. I have to say, it’s awesome. The view of the Puget Sound is wicked, as is the view of the new gleaming condo towers of my native Belltown. I’m not art guy (velvet Elvis, anyone?), but our new outdoor art museum is heads and shoulders above its ugly-ass companion at 1st and University Street downtown.
Some of the sculptures are better than others. Weird-looking wheel thing? Check. Big, orange swoopy deal? Check. Artwork designed for the sole purpose of giving Dori Monson something to talk about? Check. Perhaps the best of it is the part that isn’t finished. The grass hasn’t grown in yet (its winter) and it’s too muddy to finish some of the shoreline stuff, but it looks like a winner. When it’s all done folks will be able to walk on the beach where Elliot Bay meets Seattle. A natural waterfront where you can dip your toes in? What a deal!
To think this whole place used to be owned by Unocal. The site was polluted as hell, so they had their work cut out for them. Thanks to private donors and some federal monies sent home by my home-girl Patty, the whole idea became reality. If that’s pork, well, gimme some mo’!
There are some downsides. The hot dog cart I saw probably won’t be there in a month, which is too bad. We need more hot dog carts in Seattle, and not just the ones that are open at night in Belltown and Pioneer Square. Thankfully the park has a little cafe where you can get a salad and, uh, a panini. I’m not dissin’ them, I’m just saying… Would it kill you do put some meat on a grill? Some of that kick-ass deli mustard with onions and kraut would be awesome. I’ll have to settle for “line caught tuna, roasted peppers, arugula, hard boiled egg, butter lettuce & lemon remoulade on herb-sea salt baguette.” Sigh.
I didn’t see any basketball courts at the new park. You might be saying to yourself, “you’re an idiot, Will. It’s a friggin’ sculpture park. Of course there’s no hardtop.” That’s not the point! As Seattle is graying population wise, our city leaders don’t see the need to build soccer fields, baseball diamonds, or basketball courts like they used to. Park space is much more likely to be used as so-called “green space”, for “non-specific, non-programmed” uses.
The basketball court at the Regrade Park was decommissioned in favor of a dog park. While the change was welcomed in the neighborhood (the dogs chased the crack heads away), I’m lamenting the fact that there is just a single basketball court in the general downtown area meant for public use. Sure, sculptures are nice, but I need someplace to shoot hoops. Lots of other big cities make a point of building parks designed for “active use”, but after Seattle was hounded by a bunch of old folks for trying to build lots of sports fields at Magnuson Park, I don’t see anything happening soon.
Shortcomings aside, the new park is pretty damn cool, and it’s worth visiting. I’m sure Knute Berger will write a column about how we should have built a tank farm there (oops, looks like he already did!). Joel Connelly mostly likes the park, but got a bit irritated with all the “fawning over” and attention it’s getting. Personally, I don’t care if some architecture writer in New York likes it. Those folks like anything that’s weird and new (just read the reviews of our Downtown Seattle Public Library. Those NYC folks loved it. Meanwhile, I STILL can’t find the fucking fiction section. Yeesh.) Joel can take heart that if the Seattle P-I folds, they can just roll that big shiny globe south a block and he’ll be able to visit it anytime he wants.
Take heart, people of the Emerald City: when private fundraising with no help from Seattle City Hall can do something as amazing as the Olympic Sculpture Park, just think of the possibilities…
Seattle Art Museum Sculpture Monorail anyone?
I want to know who in the hell spent money on a sculpture that you are forbidden to photograph. As far as I am concerned, each of us are obligated to take many pictures of anything that you “are forbidden” (in a Goddamned public space) to photograph as possible. And although I am not an artist, I would bet that there are 15 Fine Artists within 15 miles of Seattle who could have done a better job than this permanent insult.
Do they have the naked man and naked child statue/fountain/clock that are yearning for each other up yet?
2
C’mon. This statue park wasn’t designed for Republicans congressmen.
The man and child sculpture is operational, and easy to find — it’s only 10 feet from the SW corner of the park next to Pier 70. You can even see it while driving by. And it’s pretty harmless looking in my opinion (unless they turn the water off at the end of the day…). For added entertainment, I hope Dori keeps having tantrums over it.
I went by the park yesterday and it was really crowded, as it was the best-weather day of the year so far. I was impressed by 1) how it floats efficiently above a railroad and a busy road, 2) how much more room there is for lots more stuff, and 3) how much more work still needs to be done, no doubt running behind due to the rotten weather of late).
And don’t miss the giant nurse log.
1
I read about that and had to roll my eyes. I suppose the artist and SAM can try to put any restrictions on any piece they want, but good luck trying to enforce it. Commercial reproduction of any such pictures would be covered under copyright law, but you can’t forbid someone to take a picture of a sculpture in a public place any more than you can forbid some from taking crowd shots on Fourth Avenue.
Seems like there are some overcaffeinated types out there who freak out at the idea that you might take a picture of something in a public space. There was a famous incident a couple years ago of some photography student who was busted trying to take pictures of the Ballard Locks.
Or maybe the sign forbidding photography is part of the artistic statement. If so, I think the artistic statement is “Whoever put this sign here is an idiot.”
“We need more hot dog carts in Seattle, and not just the ones that are open at night in Belltown and Pioneer Square.”
I heartily agree but eventually lefties will declare that hot dogs are unhealthy and fattening and get them banned. And don’t think that won’t happen. Telling other people how to live is what lefties do for fun.
So those of you who’ve seen this, tell the truth. Was it worth all the fuss over the Waterfront Streetcar? I realize the fuss was over the barn, not the streetcar itself, but I’d be a lot more likely to go see it if I could easily do so via public transportation. And we wouldn’t have had to worry about building a monorail to get there, Will. :)
6
Izzat so? Gee, I guess it was those notorious lefties Tom Delay, Denny Hastur and Bill Frist and their allies in Congress over the past couple of years who were trying to tell us we couldn’t marry who we chose and exercise our First and Fourth Amendment rights, huh?
Thank God they were stopped by those noble reactionaries Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and, um, the American public!
Yeah, lemme tell ya, if the 109th Congress and their friends had had their way we’d all be God-fearing, upright Christians in this country, whether we wanted to be or not!
#8 and #9. The truth hurts, doesn’t it?
I just posted the truth. You tell me.
Oh, and whatever you do, Don’t Click Here! It’s probably illegal to take a look at this picture.
Censorship rears its ugly head again. ‘Forbidden’ the companion to restriction of Freedom of Speech. After all, censorship is becoming America’s favorite past-time. The US gov’t (and their corporate friends), already detain protesters, ban books like “America Deceived” America Deceived (book) from Amazon and Wikipedia, and fire 21-year tenured, BYU physics professor Steven Jones because he proved explosives, thermite in particular, took down the WTC buildings. Support indy media (until the man shuts it down).
You know, I make comments like I did at #6 knowing full well I’ll get a response somewhat like “oh yeah! well you guys want to force us all to be right wing Christian kooks!” (see comment #9). You have no idea how absurd that sounds but I can predict it every time.
I’m trying to get some of you folks to do a little self-examination. It’s probably a waste of time but if I get through to even one of you I think it’s worth it.
The modern left enjoys telling others what to do…which is the main reason I parted company with the left long ago. Political correctness, shutting down free speech, idiotic bicycle helmet laws, telling people what they should eat,ignoring the rights of unborn children, the list goes on, and on. Are you really “liberals” or are you just a bunch of bitter, angry scolds?
Gosh David G, here’s a link where you can buy “America Decieved” on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/America-.....0595385230
A bit paranoid, are we?
David G@13. No it’s the Dennis Kucinichs’ of the world who want to ban free speech on the AM dial airwaves!
Bill Cruchon said:
and
Actually, while the post from Yer Killin Me does seem to be true, given the public statements of the prominent neo-con leaders (many of whom are now making their public statements from public prison), it really is irrelevant to your contention that we should have more food carts in Seattle.
Food carts tend to close up because it’s difficult to maintain sanitation and prevent litter. Generally, legislation to make them go away happens after a few cases of food poisoning or a rash of complaints from local business owners regarding litter.
Still, I like food carts. One of my favorites was a Chinese dumpling cart near the BART station in Berkeley. It even had some healthy stuff, but I admit to a personal preference for the curry beef turnovers. Yum.
But most of the time it isn’t us lefties that kill off the food carts. It’s the local businesses that either don’t want to deal with the litter, don’t want to deal with the competition or (occasionally) don’t want to deal with the ptomaine.
Gosh, David G, I didn’t realize that Wikipedia sold books. An earlier poster did show that Amazon has apparantly slipped through the grip of “the man”.
From your post, I can’t really tell whether you’re a far-right nut job or one of our own far-left whackos. When you get far enough out on the fringes, it becomes hard to tell you folks apart.
Still, from what I can tell, Dr. Jones voluntarily retired from BYU, although the school had put him on paid leave to review his work on the WTC. Apparently Dr. Jones objected to having others review his work. He preferred to use his position as a tenured professor and use the reputation of BYU without the need for any sort of peer review or oversight.
Still, he poses the important questions. Did the government conspire with all of the major media, emergency service providers and thousands of supposed eyewitnesses in order to fake having two civilian jet liners strike the World Trade Center, while actually using explosives to bring down the buildings?
Why stop there? I propose that there never were any actual buildings there! It was all a government hoax! The Builderbergs and the Trilateral Commission used the whole thing as a fundraiser, buying a big vacant lot and selling it to the government to build a monument to a disaster that never happened!
After all, the bake sale was a flop.
“given the public statements of the prominent neo-con leaders (many of whom are now making their public statements from public prison)”
What was that I was saying? The stuff some of you people say is just plain silly. You don’t see conservatives just making things up like this.
Look, Bill, statements like that may sound absurd to you, but it doesn’t sound absurd to those of us who were faced with the prospect of living under a de facto Christianist theocracy.
But you don’t have to take my word for the fact that the Christianist Right has as its primary aim the unification of their church and our state:
(google search: Family Research Council — this is James “Spongebob Squarepants Is Evil” Dobson’s outfit)
Or how about this one? Surely you recognize the name:
Or how about another of Pat’s greatest hits:
Do you want me to go on? I’ve got more, but I’m getting ready to go to church.
Tell any tales you want, Bill. Spin it any way you like. But the fact is, people like Sheldon and Dobson and Meyer and Robertson and Jerry Falwell and their associates and followers want nothing less than a union of church and state. They have the money and the influence to work toward that goal, and we’ve seen over the last 10 years or so how close they’ve come. And once that happens, what happens to the atheists? What happens to the Jews? What happens to the Buddhists? What happens to the Muslims? What happens to the Unitarians and Quakers and Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses and Seventh-Day Adventists and Unitarians and anyone else who doesn’t toe their religious line? They become second-class citizens at best, objects of persecution at worst.
But again, you don’t have to take my word for it. You can do the research for yourself. Google is your friend. Anyone who wants can look these people, and more, up on the Net, read both sides of the argument and draw their own conclusions. And unless you think just like they do, they are very scary conclusions.
You bet your sweet bippy that anytime anyone posts nonsense like yours I’m going to come right back and tell them what ould happen if the right were to get their way. I’m happy with my religion. I’m happy with my life. I don’t want to be forced to live their religion, and their life. I’ve been to countries where that was the case. I didn’t like it. I prefer America.
Now let’s go back to talking about ugly sculpture and stupid attempts to enforce non-enforceable conditions.
Bill Cruchon says:
You know, I make comments like I did at #6 knowing full well I’ll get a response somewhat like “oh yeah! Well you guys want to force us all to be right wing Christian kooks!” (See comment #9). You have no idea how absurd that sounds but I can predict it every time.
I’m trying to get some of you folks to do a little self-examination. It’s probably a waste of time but if I get through to even one of you I think it’s worth it.
The modern left enjoys telling others what to do…which is the main reason I parted company with the left long ago. Political correctness, shutting down free speech, idiotic bicycle helmet laws, telling people what they should eat, ignoring the rights of unborn children, the list goes on, and on. Are you really “liberals” or are you just a bunch of bitter, angry scolds?
01/21/2007 at 8:47 am
Well Bill you pretty much hit the nail directly on the head, but there isn’t enough adjectives in the English language to describe their bad behavior. Today I would rather have a park full of Southern Baptist preaching fire and brimstone than a country ran by a bunch of Socialist Democrats. The Christians would only be trying to save my soul and not striping my wealth away to give to those who would squatter it away. They are really bitter because no one taught them how to be winners in life. You can make them millionaires today, but they would be dirt poor and owing everyone in town for their poor decisions. What is even funnier they expect use to forgive them of their debit and transgressions because it was President Bush’s fault that they are a total failures. The main reason for Political Correctness is to shut down the poor and illiterate from expressing themselves due to their poor education. They also look down their elitist noses because their parents sent them to private schools to make them socially appear refined and sanctimonious. They claim to be for the children but really don’t give a dam about them. That is why most of them a barren of children and support life styles that promote failures. When it is all done and over they create laws to protect their life styles and their bad habits at a cost of your freedoms.
Obviously, Bill, you haven’t been to many of the right wing blogs recently. It’s pretty standard rhetoric on both sides. It may be more noticeable when it’s pointed at you, but the stuff here is really pretty mild compared to stuff I’ve read on even such comparatively tame conservative boards as (un)Sound Politics.
And there is, of course, the fact that there have been a bunch of rather well-publicized scandals regarding right wing figures where they either are or soon will be residing in public accomodations.
Bob Ney (Republican – Ohio)
Bob Foley (Republican – Florida)
Mark Olson (Republican – Minnesota)
Duke Cunningham (Republican – California)
Porter Goss (Republican – Florida and recent CIA Director)
Chuck McGee (former Director New Hampshire Republican state committee)
The list goes on and on, all the way to Roger’s favorite “Low Tax Looper” (read up on him in Wikipedia, it’s a really good tale).
Do the right wing blogs come up with similar lists of Democrats? Sure! Comparing lists of folks in jail is a regular passtime on these blogs, although I do contend that the Republicans have been making it much too easy for us recently. It’s great fun.
John Barelli says:
Gosh, David G, I didn’t realize that Wikipedia sold books. An earlier poster did show that Amazon has apparently slipped through the grip of “the man”.
From your post, I can’t really tell whether you’re a far-right nut job or one of our own far-left whackos. When you get far enough out on the fringes, it becomes hard to tell you folks apart.
Still, from what I can tell, Dr. Jones voluntarily retired from BYU, although the school had put him on paid leave to review his work on the WTC. Apparently Dr. Jones objected to having others review his work. He preferred to use his position as a tenured professor and use the reputation of BYU without the need for any sort of peer review or oversight.
Still, he poses the important questions. Did the government conspire with all of the major media, emergency service providers and thousands of supposed eyewitnesses in order to fake having two civilian jet liners strike the World Trade Center, while actually using explosives to bring down the buildings?
Why stop there? I propose that there never were any actual buildings there! It was all a government hoax! The Builder bergs and the Trilateral Commission used the whole thing as a fundraiser, buying a big vacant lot and selling it to the government to build a monument to a disaster that never happened!
After all, the bake sale was a flop.
01/21/2007 at 9:47 am
Reverent John Barelli should you not be in Church today and not posting here on this web site? How can you save sinners by not following God’s laws and bring them to light of the Lord? Reverent are you not defying God by supporting preachers like Dr. Jones who are spreading lies, worshiping false God’s, and leading his flocks into darkness only to lose their souls. Brother John who are you to Judge God’s congregation of their sins and not be judged yourself by the same yardstick? Pastor John march out into the world and spread the word of God and reap your rewards in heaven where it really counts. Amen
John Barelli says:
1. Do the right wing blogs come up with similar lists of Democrats? Sure! Comparing lists of folks in jail is a regular pastime on these blogs, although I do contend that the Republicans have been making it much too easy for us recently. It’s great fun.
01/21/2007 at 10:22 am
Reverent John why would you rejoice in someone else misery? Isn’t it the Christen thing to pray for their souls and for God to comfort them in their pain? Remember you will be judge by the same harshness that you judge others at the gates of heaven. Pray John for you have sinned and showed no compassion for others. Amen
klake at 22:
Reverend.
That is all.
klake at too many to mention:
I have not claimed the moral high ground. Neither has John Barelli. However he has stated his Christian belief. Since I have not, being a Jew precludes me from that. However, I can act in most un-Christian manner and not face the fires of hell.
With that said:
klake, fuck you.
You have it all wrong. You won’t listen to reason. You can’t learn anything new. You are the perfect Bush-ite and, when they pass around the kool-aid, be sure to ask for a Big Gulp.
And people, art is subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
After all, the guy who designed the Kingdome thought it was beautiful.
However, I am being totally objective in saying that WingNuts have it all wrong. I have six years of objective history as my offer of proof.
The sculpture park is not for everyone. Just like some folks like Chinese food and some don’t.
Personally, I like the Ballard/Fremont Troll. Great artwork, great use of space and it looks just like the typical RightWingNut.
Oh, and David G. Before I head off to the church that klake refers to (service starts at 11:15, and I sing in the choir) you might first look over klake’s posts. No real attempt at debate there, just ridicule. He’s on your side.
Remember that this is a left-wing blog and we make no claims to the contrary. Roger Rabbit says it more elequently, but basically, if you’re right-wing here, you take your chances.
Next, you might also note that your basic premise, that we lefties want to control every aspect of your life, is simply right-wing propaganda. You seem to want us to debate the reasons that we want to control your life, but the problem with that debate is that we don’t. You want food carts? Have at it. Open one. Most major Democratic cities have lots of them. Been to Boston? San Francisco? New York City?
When you go there, enjoy your hot dog.
Oh, and klake? Aren’t you starting your drinking a bit early today?
Bye now. Gotta go sing.
Bill Cruchon:
No, you make wild statements. You believe that making them makes them true. You then sit back in your chair, pleased with yourself, waiting to how many folks will respond to your comment. It sexually arouses you. Pervert. Shame that Mark Foley did get off on the same thing. The pages would have been spared.
Maybe,if as Will suggested, we had more basketball courts you could work off that excess stress, energy and emotion. (see, right on topic)
ahhhhhhhh, John Barelli, pen of a viper, voice of an angel.
See you after church, John.
My Left Foot says:
Ahhhhhhhh, John Barelli, pen of a viper, voice of an angel.
See you after church, John.
01/21/2007 at 10:57 am
My left foot you are not what you claim and maybe you should visit your Rabi in the synagogue for another opinion of what you life goals should be today. Maybe he can help you hear the real voice of an angel singing. Folks that post without their real name takes away from what they are trying to express, so Mr. Left Foot try it you are not a hippie.
#30. Such a classic textbook liberal response. Liberals can’t win in the arena of ideas so instead this is what we get, the kind of playground talk one would expect of a 14-year old.
John Barelli says:
You want food carts? Have at it. Open one. Most major Democratic cities have lots of them. Been to Boston? San Francisco? New York City?
Yes Reverent John I see food carts littering the streets of Seattle because your friends steal them from the stores. Your city fathers fine the store for all the abandoned carts disposed of in the streets because your friends refuse to return them to where they acquired the carts. Your Idea of helping the poor is housing them in tents and ignoring their real needs. Yes, John you claim to be a Christian but are you really a false prophet leading the sinners to hell with Mr. Left Foot serenading your progress? Now that is something you pastor would be proud off and maybe not encourage his followers to do outside his Church.
Hi, Will. Nice post. I haven’t been to see the Great Egress just yet, although I’m in BellTown a lot. Perhaps I’ll wander down there when the weather is better.
I will concur that converting the Regrade park to a dog-park was a good move. Locals referred to the Regrade as ‘Needle Park’ before the conversion.
sgmmac @ 2
Go suck a bag of dicks, seriously. What’s wrong with you? It’s called “Father and Son”. Not “Kid-toucher and Boy”. Nudity in art is thousands of years old. Great art thoughout the centuries was nearly ruined by doucheclowns like you sticking fig leaves on men’s dingdongs and women’s ladyparts.
I bet you’re never gonna go to the OSP anyway, so shut your pie hole.
Bill Crunchon @ 6
I’ve actually talked to folks from Ron Sims (gasp!) office, and they think liberalizing food safety laws might be a good idea. More food carts are welcomed by the Liberal Elite, it would seem.
That said, if the city council wants to ban hot dogs, I’ll be the first one rioting outside. Street meat is a constitutional right, as far as I’m concerned.
Back to topic. And Number 2’s “naked” concerns…
Art criticism seldom, if ever, tells one anything about the actual work of art, but says and reveals a great deal about the critic.
Where some may see a man reaching back to youth, a lost innocence, the split between parent and child – the Dori Monson’s and Ken Schram’s of the world see pedophilia; sgmmac [sic] apparently sees a bit of grunt dirtiness.
Art is abstract by definition, and sculpture is particularly subjective. Some of the pieces I find wonderful; some I don’t even consider art-worthy – but then, everyone has an opinion. The few truly great art critics of the world (none locally, mind you) may help you see something you never realized, or an insight never before considered, a new perspective on why we’re here.
The piss ant distractions of ‘no photos’ aside – a farce soon to be relegated to the laughter it inspires – the Olympic Sculpture Park – is a welcomed addition to the fabric of our City.
klake at 32 (applies to Bill C. too)
Dear ASShole:
Everyone here at HA knows my name. I have signed dozens of posts with it.
Rabbi is spelled with two “R’s” numbnuts. (Hint:type your comments in Word or your email program and run SPELL CHECK).
I am a child of the ’60s. I grew up an anti-war protester. My father, the Army Ranger-war hero who jumped at Normandy on D-day and could tell you stories about saving the world but wouldn’t because he was too modest, was against Viet Nam too. This might seem at odds with my military career, but not really.
I believe in the principles this country stands for. I believe in protecting her. Being against a war, does not preclude me from patriotism and service to my country. In fact, it strengthens my conviction that what we have here is worth protecting, and if need be, dying for.
So my friend, your argument that my not placing my name is false, your subsequent argument that that lessens my point is also false.
Having spent so many years in the military, right or wrong, swearing is part of the culture. If you are offended, well, fuck you.
Sincerely,
My Left Foot
Liberal, Democrat, Patriot, Jew and helping to stuff conservatives into a small box, one WingNut at a time.
“Meanwhile, I STILL can’t find the fucking fiction section. Yeesh.”
Really? Just read the troll comments in this blog — or any blog.
klake @ 34
You make this too easy.
We are talking about FOOD CARTS that sell food, not shopping baskets for loading up your belongings, which you push down the street when you are not using the public computers in the library to post your hate here.
If you were attempting humor, you missed the shot.
Now, get out your bottle, take a pull or two and leave us be. Football is on.
@5 “Seems like there are some overcaffeinated types out there who freak out at the idea that you might take a picture of something in a public space.”
Yeah, like cops, when you videotape them beating the shit out of a black guy.
My Left Foot @38.
Good grief, you’re kind of out of contol, aren’t you?
@12 Paul Allen actually paid $$$ for THAT?! No wonder he’s burned through half of his $40 billion …
@14 I did some self-examination about 15 years ago, and told the powers that be to shove PC up their arses.
How’s YOUR self-examination going?
the kind of playground talk one would expect of a 14-year old.
Well, I guess you would be the one to know about that.
42
Perhaps I was not clear enough for you.
I don’t care what you think. You are meaningful here as a fart in a windstorm.
Go fuck yourself. Arguing issues with you is like having a three year old explain the theory of relativity. It is cute to watch, but makes no sense.
@14 (continued) I’m sure glad that I’m financially independent and don’t have to work anymore! Not only does our government punished people for working by taxing the shit out of earned income, you also have to worry about whether every little thing you say or do will piss off the boss and get you fired! It’s so much less stressful (and more financially rewarding) to sit on your fat bunny ass living on pensions, capital gains, interest, and dividends! Why the fuck should anybody work? Working is for suckers and Democrats! I used to work, but now I live like a Republican, i.e., I’m completely unproductive and growing fatter by the day on the backs of others’ labor!
Hey Redneck — don’t forget to pump some more of my gas into your Hummer today! I bought more oil stock last week. Thanks, I appreciate your business.
@16 That’s not true, they just want John Carlson to register as a paid lobbyist. But I have to agree with you unpatriotic, Constitution-hating trollfucks on that one; the PDC is nuts.
42: It’s the “line caught tuna, roasted peppers, arugula, hard boiled egg, butter lettuce & lemon remoulade on herb-sea salt baguette.” That can do it to people :-)
Only in Seattle ….
I just can’t understand why I believe liberals are immature crybabies.
@19 “Bill Cruchon says: What was that I was saying? The stuff some of you people say is just plain silly. You don’t see conservatives just making things up like this. 01/21/2007 at 9:48 am
True … sort of. But your con pals make up other kinds of “stuff” … e.g. Jonathan Gardner aka Federal Way Conservative who claims the Constitution gives the president authority to execute anyone who pals post on this blog every day, which we are constantly debunking. Yes, Bill, cons “just make things up.” We complain about it frequently, but complaining doesn’t seem to do any good.
Hmmm … the pooter ate part of my comment. Let’s try again.
True … sort of. But your con pals make up other kinds of “stuff” … e.g. Jonathan Gardner aka Federal Way Conservative who claims the Constitution gives the president authority to execute anyone who criticizes him or his lame-ass policies. And “stuff” your con pals post on this blog every day, which we are constantly debunking. Yes, Bill, cons “just make things up.” We complain about it frequently, but complaining doesn’t seem to do any good.
@20 You don’t have to forgive me, klake. You can substitute a bj. For a good time, call 1-900-SUCK-ROG!
Had to dig pretty deep for that one, didn’t you, Roger?
@26 That may be so, but that stupid eraser thing sucks anyway! I can’t believe Paul Allen paid MONEY for that … er … object.
Hey Rabbit – Didja see that GWB wants to tax my “gold plated” medical insurance so lazy fucking freeloaders like you can get it for “free”.
Fucking parasite..
“go fuck yourself” Evidently the liberal equivilant of reasoned debate.
Of course if Dick Cheney happens to say it, it’s front page news.
@26 (continued) Whoever designed the Sculpture Park has NO TASTE!!! Now HERE is a beautiful objet d’art: http://tinyurl.com/3cdjje
@56 First decent idea he’s ever had! But maybe he’ll back off if you pay your gambling debt to Goldy, weasel.
And for the record…. I’d say that GWB has now entered Jimmy Carter territory as a terrible president. He doesn’t embrace every fucking dictator in the world as carter did, but that’s about the only fucking thing he has going for him.
@56 (continued) Is this another crack in GOP hegemony? I LOVE to watch Republicans eat each other!!! :) HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR You go, Redneck!!! HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
I learned it from Dick, asshole. Care to go quail hunting with me?
61 is for Bill at 57
@57 No, you don’t get it, Bill. When a liberal tells you to “go fuck yourself, and pet your armadillo” the “go fuck yourself” simply means go fuck yourself, and “pet your armadillo” is the reasoned debate part of it.
@54 Nah, it’s just an automatic response.
You must be new here, Bill. Permit me to acquaint you with the unwritten HA posting rules:
1. This is a liberal blog.
2. Anyone can post here.
3. There is no censorship.
4. As liberals, our mission is to verbally kick the living shit out of you unpatriotic, America-hating, fascist trolls.
5. No mercy for wingnuts!
6. Our terms are unconditional surrender.
7. klake is a nazi.
Any questions?
@33 Why not? You guys do it to us. You call us commies, traitors, terrorists, perverts, etc. — so why shouldn’t we do it to you? Why should Nazis have a monopoly on name-calling? How’s that castor oil taste going down, boy?
#63 I “get it” alright.
This is a liberal blog? Oh my god!
@42 Looks to me like he’s very much in control.
Bill – Let me explain roger rabbit. he is a retired gummint parasite lawyer who didn’t quite have what it took to be a real private practice lawyer. So instead of getting real lawyer money, he settled for the low expecations and job security of gummint.
Now he’s broke and bitter and makes the case here why The Producers should pay his bills.
He’s quite entertaining sometimes as you’ll soon see…
Bill at 67:
You “getting it” Mark Foley style?
“As liberals, our mission is to verbally kick the living shit out of you unpatriotic, America-hating, fascist trolls.”
By using those time-honored liberal methods…avoiding actual debate, and name calling.
And you won’t want to talk at all about how lefties are trying to restore the “Fairness Doctrine” because they wan’t Rush, Hannity, Medved, etc., off the airwaves.
Bill – Here’s some “best of roger rabbit”:
I like Castro’s system better. He confiscates the employer’s property, shoots the employer, and the workers get quality health care for free. We need something like that in America.
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 3/19/06@ 3:42 pm
A “capitalist” is someone who makes other people take all the risks, bear all the costs, and takes all the profits for himself. And the whole fucking point of being a capitalist is so you can be a lazy ass who does no work and produces nothing.
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 5/30/06@ 8:17 pm
Roger Rabbit says:
Technical problems are man-made phenomena, not acts of nature, and as such can be prevented with adequate inspection/regulation.
12/01/2006 at 12:55 pm
…how big a capacitator do we need to shoot MTR into orbit with a flashlight battery?
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 3/12/06@ 3:42 pm
@50 “Bill Cruchon says: I just can’t understand why I believe liberals are immature crybabies. 01/21/2007 at 12:26 pm”
Like this guy (and all his fans)? http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/ms......small.jpg
@59 “Mark The Redneck KENNEDY says: And for the record…. I’d say that GWB has now entered Jimmy Carter territory as a terrible president.”
HOLY SHIT!!! Redneck has had an epiphany!! (What took you so fucking long? Now, have another one, and pay your fucking gambling debt.)
Ain’t that just like a wingnut — the minute Bush wants to tax his gold-plated health benefits, he leaves the reservation!! No loyalty, I tell ya, those Republicans have no loyalty!
72
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, now we see the problem. You think that your WingNut radio personalities are relevant. They, like you, are not.
This is a center to left of center country, which you are finding out the hard way.
Try Keith Olbermann. He is relevant. The ratings rise is proof of that.
@73 Hey Mark — Costco is having a sale on CAPACITATORS … if I connect two in series to a car battery, will it make you look like the Space Shuttle taking off?
@72 Who said we want those lying fucks off the airwaves? They make our guys look good. All we want is equal time.
78:
If he takes off, is that art?
@80 Absolutely! It’s called “hands-on art” or “art in motion” or something like that. It’s a statement on the fleeting, ephemeral nature of a wingnut’s existence in the grand scheme of things — here today and, pfffft!!! gone quicker than a wingnut when the military recruiters show up.
I could not agree more with your post at 81.
“all we want is equal time” Hmmm, you lefties control education from K-college, you control the media, you control Hollywood, you just had a huge electoral victory and you whine that you want “equal time”?
What a bunch of pathetic, wimpering, socialist crybabies you are.
If anyone thinks I’m making this up here’s an educational link: http://www.aim.org/special_report/5160_0_8_0_C/
Bill at 83:
Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn.
I am considered an “edgibicated” person & used to have what was considered a critic’s license to pontificate about works of art.
Quite some while ago, I decided that I don’t like PUBLIC art. The stuff is stupid. Shortly after, I decided that the general notion of displaying works of art in public is also stupid, counter-productive & a total waste. Average dudes & dudettes don’t like art, don’t want it around in their space, don’t approve of the works (generally) & sort of hate the people who attempt to be artists.
Sooooooo . . . we have corporations & governments & philanthropists goobering public space with what some artists have told them is art. Fuck ’em. It’s as if the big money folks are trying to shove art appreciation down some plain folks’ throat or up their . . . .
If Joe Sixpak can’t afford a Rodin, then he doesn’t deserve to see one. If you can’t buy a Henry Moore, then you gotta’ pay a fee to look at someone else’s.
Now, get my drift: if dipshits such as Saint Rooty Guiliani or Pope John Asscroft or Fucker Carlson or Whori Monson or Ken Skram want to be reviewers, let’s put the artwork behind walls & make the wannabe critix pay to review the stuff. Ha. You even think for a moment that those tightwads would fork over a fiver to look at aerolae, labia, penises, anuses, etc? NOT. Unless it’s on a porn website . . . ?
Then, we wouldn’t have to hear or read their asinine comments about how the “art” offends the tender sensibilities of christians, conservatives & sundry social rejects.
No public art. Put it away. Even get rid of the generals on horseback. We don’t need any comments about the size of the schlong on Gen. Jubilation T. Cornpone’s horse, or the length of his bronze sword.
My apologies for going so far off topic, but hey, if you guys really still want a monorail why not hire Halliburton to build it? Betcha anything they could do it cheaper than the guvmint.
redneck, some day you are actually going to read the text of a proposal instead of an oped piece about it before you make a comment and the world will spin out of orbit.
You are right that the health care thing is a piece of crap but you’ve no idea appearantly what it actually does. Those who get health care provided by an employer will have to pay income tax on it with a deduction up to 15k to offset it. So if your health plan is less than 15k worth, all this does is make your taxes a little bit more complex. If you pay your own health plan, you can now claim that deduction up to 15k. Here is the stupid part, even if you are paying the national average of 10k per year, you get the 15k deduction.
So this doesnt actually give health care to anyone not currently getting it. What it does is take anyone who had 10k to buy thier own insurance and give them a tax break. Does that help the poor? You tell me how many ppl earning less than 30k actually can spend 10k a year? Noone, this really helps small business owners and the self employed in the middle class.
My impression of that proposal is that its meant to get shot down so that in two years the reps who are campaigning get to say a dem voted against health care.
87
Sneaky little fuckers you Republicans are. Putting up doomed legislation that sounds good, but really sucks, for political gain. No wonder y’all got voted out.
Apparently has no “E” after the second “P”.
You’re welcome.
dont blame me, I‘m not a republican. nor am I Bill C, I am bill.
Hey, don’t blame me either. I don’t much like what I’ve read of this proposal but I’ll reserve judgement until I’ve been able to digest the details.
But if you want to talk about the really big elephant in the room it’s going to be social security reform. The left has proposed nothing and has fought any notion of changing the system. Ow! That’s going to hurt! Eventually.
89
Sorry Bill. Sometimes Bills all look alike to me. :o)
Speaking of the elephant in the room. . .the bankruptcy of the Criminal Right’s political agenda, including destroying Social Security. You had your referendum on November 7. . .suck on that.
Your ideas are worthless. Your cronies are criminal. The average American took the time to kick your cockamamie agenda into a cocked hat, get used to it.
#93. I’ve been beating you lefties like a drum all day here. And the best you can do is this kind of neener, neener garbage. And I’m being nice to you.
@94 You are a blog weed. You don’t get any traction in the real world. . .try a tourist visa there sometime, and you don’t get any traction here. Buckle up bunky, its gonna be a rough ride for you delusional types. This Congress is just getting started.
No, youve been raising irrelevant issues and ignoring responses all day here. anyone who insists that the federal government should pass an amendment to ban a specific type of marriage is advocating the government telling people how to live their own lives.
Fact is there are issues with social security because reagan raided it. demanding that someone come up with a plan to fix your mess is a bit disingenious.
#96 Name the responses I have “ignored”.
You have raised an accusation that the left wants to control peoples lives, the response has been examples of the right doing so. Your response to that so far has been to call the poster names or, as with post 97 to change the subject.
You raised social security, but not yet responded to the fact that republicans are the ones who gutted it.
Oh and “Tree Frog Farmer” Do I have to make you guys up?
I swear, you are nearly caricatures of yourselves.
No substance, just name calling. What is wrong with you people, anyway?
ding ding ding, subject change.
#100 – “You have raised an accusation that the left wants to control peoples lives, the response has been examples of the right doing so. Your response to that so far has been to call the poster names or, as with post 97 to change the subject.
You raised social security, but not yet responded to the fact that republicans are the ones who gutted it.”
Specific examples of the above, please. Show me the posts and I’ll be happy to respond.
Hey Will, good post, but you don’t have to highlight the word “fucking”. It highlights itself.
oh come on, weve all got scrollback here. 14 which was a non-response to 8 and 98 which was a response to your post at 93.
67
Bill may be new here, oh rodent pal of mine, but he’s not a newbie. Go over to Google, type in “Bill Cruchon” (use the quotes) and see what you find. He’s been dropping his verbal spoor over at Unsound Politics, Evergreen Politics and other similar bastions of fairness and reasoned debate for some time now, not to mention Headless Lucy’s blog and the letters page of the P-I.
To me, though, he just sounds like another meatstick. Much less interested in actual discussion than in raising straw men, parroting talking points and using the “neener neener” defense.
bill #105– Is that the best response you can come up with?
Come on. 105 posts and there is no real discussion here. Unless maybe “fuck you, Bill” amounts to dialogue”.
All I’m seeing is verification of what I know about the left.
@106 as I said on the open thread, we are having a proliferation of blogweeds because they know they have so little traction on their own echo-chamber blogs. So like the unkempt, half crazed politically homeless types they are they shuffle over here, muttering and screaming their mindless rants as they push their shopping carts full of failed, broken, and looney political ideas and policies.
no dialogue is possible so long as you raise issues and ignore the responses.
re6: You poor little victim.
re 6 & 107: You poor little victim!
Let me make this easy for you. The two issues in front of you (and you did raise both of them) are:
1) republicans are advocating controling peoples lives using such legislation as that which would limit gays right to marry
2) that social security is having trouble primarily because reagan gutted it and 12 years or republican congress ignored the issue.
You’ll have to beg my pardon, but I’ve never seen such a group of intellectual weenies.
And what the hell is a “blogweed”? Can you folks be any more infantile?
Again, and again, you people can’t engage and have a real debate of ideas. I’m sure that has nothing to do with the fact that I suspect most of you are socialists.
Bill Cruchon:
Fuck you.
I can’t be any more direct.
1) republicans are advocating controling peoples lives using such legislation as that which would limit gays right to marry.
Thank goodness. How about allowing polygamy, too? Where does it end? I’m certainly in favor of civil unions which allow the same rights as marriage. But I believe marriage should only be between a man and a woman.
2) that social security is having trouble primarily because reagan gutted it and 12 years or republican congress ignored the issue. Give me a link or argument that shows that Reagan “gutted” social security.
And in the end what is the best lefties can do? #114 “Fuck you”.
I don’t even have to make it up.
1) so your complaint is not that government controls peoples lives, but that the control needs to be of a nature that you approve of? What exactly is wrong with polygamy or polyandry?
2) that is a non-answer, its on par with asking for a link demonstrating that the earth goes around the sun. reagan oversaw creation of the trust fund that allowed the government to use the money in the trust fund to run other programs.
“1) so your complaint is not that government controls peoples lives, but that the control needs to be of a nature that you approve of? What exactly is wrong with polygamy or polyandry?”
Holy cow! What else are you for, brothers marrying their sisters? Good lord.
But guess what? I suspect you suddenly will be against polygamy if Mitt Romney becomes a serious presidential candidate.
“2) that is a non-answer, its on par with asking for a link demonstrating that the earth goes around the sun. reagan oversaw creation of the trust fund that allowed the government to use the money in the trust fund to run other programs.”
Where’s the link defending your point? I’m not going to just take your word for it. Fair is fair.
1) yet another non answer, what is wrong with polygamous marriages? more to the point what is the governments interest in restricting these? throwing in a slippery slope arguement by implication isn’t actually an answer
2) here. incidently, you also ignored the part about 12 years of republican controlled congress ignoring this issue.
“what is wrong with polygamous marriages?” Marriage should be between 1 man and 1 woman.
“2) here. incidently, you also ignored the part about 12 years of republican controlled congress ignoring this issue.”
Your link doesn’t even mention Ronald Reagan, the man you accused of “gutting” social security.
If you don’t confront me with verifiable facts you need to be prepared to do the dance.
Bill Cruchon says:
#100 – “You have raised an accusation that the left wants to control peoples lives, the response has been examples of the right doing so. Your response to that so far has been to call the poster names or, as with post 97 to change the subject.
You raised social security, but not yet responded to the fact that republicans are the ones who gutted it.”
Specific examples of the above, please. Show me the posts and I’ll be happy to respond.
01/21/2007 at 3:22 pm
Bill Cruchon Reagan didn’t gut the SSI but LBJ did just to pay for the Viet Nam War. Since then they (Democrats) have add programs to take care of folks who have not contribute one dime to the program. They also increased the age limit in order to retire to slow down the sucking sound. Tomorrow all the government workers who haven’t paid into the system will be brought onboard due to the bankruptcies of their retirement systems. Well life is a bitch if you are a taxpayer and because you have a job today get to carry all the local dead beats.
1)should? how do you get that? so you think that it is ok for the government to force everyone to ascribe to your own belief system? any you claim dems> want to tell people how to live their lives? you are the one sitting here saying that it is in government interest to force people to subscibe to a particular belief system. oddly enough, you have yet to present anything resembling proof that this one man one woman marriage is somehow better or more beneficial, even though you have repeatedly demanded proof for item 2).
2) go look again and think about who was president in 1983. still ignoring congress I see.
119
I stopped worrying about polygamous marriages the day I realized that living together without benefit of clergy had ceased to be a big deal in this country. I figure if some guy can shack up with one girl friend, there’s nothing to stop him from shacking up with two or more. The only big deal would be dealing with the kids and inheritance of property, and if they can figure it out, I can live with it.
Me, I can only handle one wife. Not to mention one mother in law.
klake, I don’t know if LBJ “gutted” social security either. A quick search didn’t lead me there. LBJ was certainly a huge big spender so it’s certainly possible.
bill at #122, can’t you do better than illiterate babbling?
123, to an extent you are right, there is nothing stopping religions that allow gay or polygamous marriages from performing them. the question is a combination of government recognition, and whether or not these marriages will be honored at places like hospitals when someone is sick. Given how stuff like this can happen its not entirely in the realm of just government paperwork, there are real effects on real people when laws get written to promote a particular religious point of view.
and we get to the insults. you illustrated my point so well, thanks.
Will,
If you are telling me off with your rant that began with….. “sgmmac @
learn how to fucking do it right! I am certainly not sucking on any damn man’s dick – nor will I in the future.
I asked a simple fucking question – is the damn statue up that caused all of the controvery, the statue that was paid for by an art loving homosexual who died and left Seattle a million bucks, but only if it went for a nude male statue.
I don’t give a fuck what the 90 year old freaky woman who designed it calls it, if a man is getting a hardon while longing for his son, there’s something wrong with him.
You are right though, I won’t be up there to long at the ugly ass shit, you can keep it and the wierd red eagle and all of the stupid pink pigs too!
If you have a problem with my language- see Carl Grossman’s post…………..
Oh and shut the fuck up!
If you didn’t produce impossible to understand garbage like you did at #122 I wouldn’t “insult” you.
For crying out loud, I’ve clearly stated what I believe. Marriage should be between a man and a woman.
I’ve also stated that I support civil unions, which should alleviate your concerns about hospitals, etc. (which is just a smokescreen argument and you know it).
You have stated that youve an opinion. You have not yet given a justification for the government to impose your opinion on everyone else. Further, all this got started with you claiming that dems want to tell people how to live their lives. The reality is that you want to tell people how to live their lives.
For clarification, why should I accept your idea that marriage should be between a man and a woman? Why should it?
@ 128
I have no idea if the Safeco employee who died and left the museum a million dollars. I didn’t see a hard throbbing cock on the statue because I wasn’t looking for it. I’m not a sick old bag who whines on the internet about things I know nothing about. If you want to be the art police, go ahead. I don’t know what it is about rightwingers like you that you always see something “dirty” in art.
#130 bill
“The reality is that you want to tell people how to live their lives.”
I love how you’ve skewed the debate towards gay marriage, polygamy, and lord knows what sort of other disgusting kinds of unions.
Typical twisting of the issues by lefties. What in the name of reason does this have to do with my original point at #6, or at #14?
I’ve seen no defense of the liberal point of view that wants to tell us what to eat, what kind of transport to use, and what kind of speech we are allowed, among other things.
Bill C at 133:
The only person talking about what kind of speech to use is you.
Fuck you.
I gotta agree with my left foot here, you are the only one here claiming liberals have that point of view. I haven’t seen any attempts at all to impose laws that require a certain food type, type of transportation use, specific speech to be used proposed by the liberal end of either party.
Now they might publicly voice an opinion as to a preference, but thats what free speech is about, you get so say what you want. But not a law.
However, you are saying youve some sort of right to impose your beliefs on the rest of us. You still haven’t presented any sort of justification for banning gay or polygamous marriages other than that you think they are disgusting.
Big deal, a lot of people find chewing tobacco disgusting, but its available at the store.
And as far as wanting to stop free speech, well, youve got the dems confused with the president
126
You’re absolutely right, I was focusing on the social rather than the legal aspects, which currently apply to any non-married couple, or threesome, or whatever.
#134 “The only person talking about what kind of speech to use is you.
Fuck you.
Does this make my point, or what? What the heck is wrong with you people?
BILL CRUCHON: YOU CAME HERE TO DEBATE?
I heartily agree but eventually lefties will declare that hot dogs are unhealthy and fattening and get them banned. And don’t think that won’t happen. Telling other people how to live is what lefties do for fun.
THIS IS A DEBATE TOPIC? SORRY, YOU CAME HERE TO INSULT AND NAME-CALL.
YOU’RE A LIAR LIKE ALL THE RIGHT WING. THAT’S WHY YOUR KIND WAS CANNED ON NOV. 7.
Of course he didn’t come here to debate. He came here to slander, spout talking points, raise straw men, issue bogus challenges, thump his chest, declare victory and then go back to his friends on some wingnut site to tell everyone how brave he was that he counted coup on all them scary liberals over on Goldy’s blog.
I lost interest in him about the time I refuted one of his first talking points and he shifted gears.
Will,
If YOU have no idea about a Safeco employee who died and left a million to SAM was gay, then maybe YOU are the one who needs to read and be informed. The stories about him and the sculpture were very well publicized and criticized in the Seattle newspapers.
As for me being a rightwinger who always sees something dirty in art. Where the fuck did you get that assumption from? I didn’t say the damn thing is dirty. That comes from your little stereotyping mind.
As for it being Father and Son – not only is that debatable, it is insulting to every man who busts his ass trying to be a good father to see a sculpture by a small minded 90 year old woman who thinks fathers and sons don’t talk and have fractured relationships. Nor is it indicative of today’s fathers in society. It probably was true in the 30’s and 40’s when the artist was raising her kids. Men have come a long way since then, but instead of a statue symbolizing the goodness, beauty and strength of a man, we have something symbolizing his weakness, his flaws and his lack of communication.
There are some who will look at that sculpture and think it represents child molestors and since the donor was a gay man, they will assume gay men are child molestors. They are NOT, but the stereotype is out there in little people minds. I don’t think the statue is appropriate in the public domain, because of the possibility of some celebrating or glorifying pedophilia. We have enough problems in our society with it to be putting up art work that can be interpreted as such.
The SAM should have given the project to a male artist and if he would have been gay, it would have been even better. The donor would have surely have liked having his money go to a gay man rather than a 90 year old woman who got the job because of her past pieces, not because she could relate to showing the beauty of a nude male body.
Just imagine how powerful and appropriate the political statement of the statue would be if it was of two adult males reaching for each other – but never able to touch because of society’s walls blocking them. What is the biggest problem for gay men in our state? They can’t marry or have a civil union! SAM missed a great opportunity that would have honored the donor’s wishes a lot more than what he got stuck with.
SAM took the donor’s million – didn’t fulfill his wishes, but they sure did take care of themselves by creating controversy and having a sculpture of a “celebrated” artist in their park. What a waste!
Bill Cruchon has been in this thread all day. Literally. How is it these right-wing trolls have so much fucking free time? Is there access to the internet in prison these days, or what?
I’m not sure that we can really give Mr. Cruchon a hard time about the amount of time he spends on this board. Roger manages to spend enough time here that I’ve occasionally suspected that he’s actually got a team of rabbits down in that burrow of his, taking turns beating up the wingnuts.
The picture of rows of cubicles, each containing a rabbit on a computer comes to mind.
On to the debate.
Bill Cruchon said:
Sorry to bust your bubble, Bill, but to take your points in order:
1. We don’t want to tell you what to eat, but we do want to make sure that the folks producing it tell you what is in it. Even that big “trans-fat” mess in NYC is simply a rule for restaurants (what you cook in is your business). Myself, I would have simply required them to put a notice on the menu (half-inch letters or larger) “Trans-fats used here” and let the marketplace deal with the issue.
2. Use whatever transport you wish. We may advocate taxes or fees to help alleviate the damage your chosen mode of transportation causes, and we certainly want to provide alternatives, but if you want to drive that Hummer, then go for it. You will, however, please excuse me if I try to get the huge tax break on Hummers removed. (I’m told by my tax guy that if I buy a Hummer and use it for my business, I can deduct half the purchase price in the first year. That is crazy!)
3. Certainly reading this board, you should be able to tell that we believe in free speech. There is no censorship here. Of course, that also applies to us as we knock down the silly (and often simply false) arguments of the wingnuts. Say whatever you like, but remember that we have the right to respond.
Thanks John for being one of the few here that actually is willing to engage in a real discussion.
My favorite comment has to be “how is it these right wing trolls have so fucking much free time?” Sheesh, an old guy can’t even watch the playoffs and have a little fun twisting the left’s panties into a knot. No hint in that comment at all that I’m getting to them.
“1.We don’t want to tell you what to eat,” Try ordering foie gras in Chicago.
“2. Use whatever transport you wish.” Gosh that’s so nice of you. Do you not even get how condescending a statement like that is? “We may advocate taxes or fees to help alleviate the damage your chosen mode of transportation causes,” But you don’t want to tell us what to drive? Yeah, right.
“3…. Say whatever you like, but remember that we have the right to respond.”
Where have I questioned anyone’s “right to respond”? People on the right don’t question anyone’s right to free speech. We aren’t afraid of debate. We can generally do better than responding “fuck you” when we are on the losing side of an argument.
Bill, have you spent any time on a right-wing site? 99% of them moderate the crap out of their comments, only allowing parroting of their views, no debate.
Your statements don’t match reality.
We can generally do better than responding “fuck you” when we are on the losing side of an argument.
Have you read any comments on this board from klake, JCH, Mark Redneck or others? They disprove your statement every time they bang on their keyboards.
Of course, you have to be smart enough to recognize you’re losing…
“1.We don’t want to tell you what to eat,” Try ordering foie gras in Chicago.”
Olympia’s rep Brenden Williams introduced a bill into the Washington State house last year to ban foie gras here in Washington State……….
Bill Clinton made a deal with soda manufacturers last year to ban soda’s in schools all across America………..
“Your statements don’t match reality.”
Really? What “statements” are you referring to?
How can I possibly respond to this kind of generalized crap?
It’s fascinating to observe how you people spew vague generalizations and then slink away when challenged.
If you have ideas worth debating, why won’t you engage in an honest debate about them?