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The end of an era

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The inimitable Atrios, blogging from my birthplace of Philadelphia, posts this tidbit of wisdom on the future of highway construction:

Actually heard a bit of sense from a ‘woman on the street’ interview about possibly tolling 422, a highway in the Western burbs of the urban hellhole which at one end connects up with the Schuylkill Expressway, the only urban highway entering the city from that direction. And, as she said, even if they widen 422 (a possible use of toll money), it won’t matter all that much because the Schuylkill is basically 2 lanes in each direction and there isn’t a practical way to widen it even if billions were available.

There’s significant travel along that road which is intra-suburban, and not about connecting up to drive into the city, but my main point is that there will not be any highway improvements into Philadelphia basically ever again.

This reminds me of the debate over the new 520 floating bridge, where advocates for adding more lanes to relieve congestion on the bridge, basically ignore that I-5 can barely handle the 520 traffic it already receives. If there’s no way to widen I-5 through Seattle, there’s really no reason to widen the highways feeding it.

In Seattle, like Philadelphia, we’ll basically never expand highway capacity into the downtown, ever again. So how will we accommodate the transportation needs of all those people expected to move here?

I think we all know the answer.

Comments

  1. 1

    I-90 has the advantage if having the ability to disgourge traffic directly onto city streets in the SODO district, in addition to sending traffic north and south on I-5. Likewise, I-90 traffic can bypass the bridges and I-5 through Seattle by using I-405. A trucker told me that he can get a ticket for traveling on I-90 into Seattle, rather than using I-405, unless his waybill is for deliveries in the Seattle area.

    But SR 520 is stuck at the Montlake/arboretum bottleneck, and again at I-5 itself. It’s usually not so bad going north, but heading South is a nightmare – especially as thru traffic merges into only two available lanes, and lots of SR 520 traffic is trying to move over multiple lanes of traffic to take the Mercer exit.

    Now, if they could have a couple of lanes of SR 520 traffic go directly to Mercer without blending into SB I-5 traffic first, that would be an improvement, albeit an expensive one. And that still pushes more traffic into the Mercer Mess.

    So the only real alternative I see to a heavy reliance on light rail is to find a way to force through traffic on I-5 to by-pass Seattle entirely on I-405, which still has room for expansion. Or you could build another freeway east of I-405 – perhaps near Issaquah????

    In the meantime, remember that the roadbed of I-5 was never intended to last as long as it has without major rebuilding, and that’s based on assumptions of traffic loads which are only a fraction of what they are now. I suspect that within the next ten years we aren’t going to be able to avoid it any longer – and major road projects will come to a halt for a decade while every single highway dollar goes toward heavy maintenance of our interstate highway system.

  2. 2

    I think we all know the answer.

    Yeppers!

    Deregulate the taxi services and start requiring bicycle riders to pay the same amount of tax as the car drivers.

    That’ll teach em.

  5. 5

    I remember back in the early 70’s “Concrete Al” Leland had a plan for I 605, a third freeway east of 405, then later through the Carnation Valley with the goal to bypass 405.

    US 2 was supposed to bypass Monroe and all of the traffic lights too.

    Freeways never built

    See http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/i605.html

  6. 6

    Obviously the answer is to decrease the cost of our car tabs so that owning a car to park drive in the already over congested corridors is less expensive. Also too, decrease the cost of parking within the city limits so that more people can park drive in to the city.

    The absolutely worst thing which could be done would be to incentivise any sort of alternative to driving into the city or disincentivise driving on our over capacity highways those who have choices.

    Steady as she goes!!

  7. 7

    In related wholesome Tea Bagging goodness news, the NYT reports:


    Republicans running for governor in a handful of states could block, or significantly delay, one of President Obama’s signature initiatives: his plan to expand the passenger rail system and to develop the nation’s first bullet-train service.

    In his State of the Union address this year, the president called for building high-speed rail, and backed up his words with $8 billion in stimulus money, distributed to various states, for rail projects.

    But Republican candidates for governor in some of the states that won the biggest stimulus rail awards are reaching for the emergency brake.

    In Wisconsin, which got more than $810 million in federal stimulus money to build a train line between Milwaukee and Madison, Scott Walker, the Milwaukee County executive and Republican candidate for governor, has made his opposition to the project central to his campaign.

    Mr. Walker, who worries that the state could be required to spend $7 million to $10 million a year to operate the trains once the line is built, started a Web site, http://www.NoTrain.com, and has run a television advertisement in which he calls the rail project a boondoggle.

    “I’m Scott Walker,” he says in the advertisement, “and if I’m elected as your next governor, we’ll stop this train.”

    Too bad we don’t have a brain dead neanderthal forward looking man of principal as our governor. If we did all of our transportation worries could be solved by ‘stopping trains’.

    h/t BJ

  12. 12

    @9 YLB, EXCELLENT!

    It is about time government got out of soshuleest fire fighting.
    Heck, it is only a matter of time before they take it the next step and privatize the fire fighters company and then aggressively market highly profitable insurance.

  14. 14

    @1 by-pass Seattle entirely on I-405, which still has room for expansion

    You betcha. Flatten Bellevue Square and run 405 over it! Take that Kemper!

  15. 15

    Golly, common sense and all? Is that why Manhattan hasn’t solved their traffic problem by just building a dozen 10 lane highways in downtown NY city? You mean sometimes geography and existing cityscape prevents “just building more roads”? Huh…who knew…oh yeah, everyone with a brain.

    You either double/triple deck existing roads, tunnel under, or just add mass transit. There just ain’t magic here folks…physics and reality win out in the end.

  16. 16

    In Seattle, like Philadelphia, we’ll basically never expand highway capacity into the downtown, ever again

    Ahh…but of course the Interstate Highways Act, which brought us sprawl…nearly all the way up to Snoqualmie Pass was NOT social engineering. It’s only socialistcommunistfascism when transit is involved…

    Right wingers find a new way to be wrong on just about every issue.

  17. 17

    Now, if they could have a couple of lanes of SR 520 traffic go directly to Mercer without blending into SB I-5 traffic first

    Yeah, rhp6033, who cares about a billion dollars for a half mile of off-ramp…excellent point.

    So the only real alternative I see to a heavy reliance on light rail is to find a way to force through traffic on I-5 to by-pass Seattle entirely on I-405, which still has room for expansion.

    Really? The more they keep expanding 405, the more messed up the traffic seems to get. Maybe it’s that $1.2 billion (unfunded) interchange at 167 which is holding things up. Or, possibly, the $15 billion price tag to make 405 do what you want it to do. Think people like rhp will ever learn? Doubt it…

    Or you could build another freeway east of I-405 – perhaps near Issaquah????

    Uh, Kemper Freeman and Jim Horn triend your brilliant idea for years, rhp6033. Jim Horn even lost his job over it. Take a tour of the Snoqualmie Valley some day, and then get back to us on your idiotic ideas…

  18. 18

    When every (white) man woman and child drives a car, every (white) man, woman and child will be free. There is always some dumb Jap’s farm to pave over.

  20. 20

    Deathfrog at whatever…

    Since state roads and highways are primarily paid for through property and sales taxes, bicyclists are actually subsidizing motorists on all the roads they’re permitted to use, and don’t tear them up anywhere near as much.

    as for a solution to the expected growth – fewer children…

    AYHSMB!

  21. 21

    Poster Child,

    No, they don’t tear the roads up.

    They do run red lights and stop signs. They do insist on riding in groups on Eastlake Sammamish and Hwy 202, both of which have bike trails 40 feet away. They do cause dangerous conditions in traffic with their smug insistence on right of way (with vehicles incapable of maintaining the speed limit.)

    But they don’t tear up the roads.

  23. 23

    Max @ 17: My intention was to discuss each of the alternatives, to point out that even the most reasonable ones is much more expensive and less feasible than simply employing light rail. But this requires the reader to detect a bit of sarcasm in the message, which apparantly I didn’t convey very well.

  24. 24

    # 9: Yep, I remember growing up in Tennessee. As a young child, I remember growing up in a small suburb with a private fire department (one truck) and a private ambulance service (one ambulance). The fees were pretty high, so some people opted to go without. The neighbor up the road was just such a person, and sure enough, his house caught fire and the fire department arrived just to watch it burn. There was some suspicion because an unusual number of fires occured and “non-subscribing” homes, all when nobody was at home. But the local fire marshal was actually the owner of the private fire department, so arson investigations always blamed “electrical problems”.

    It was quite a fight when the residents tried to set up a public fire department and EMT service, which didn’t occur until almost 1970. There were claims it was “socialist”, and that it would cost homeowners several times what they currently paid in subscription fees. When the vote authorized the creation of the public fire department, the fire marshall fought a series of court battles against the measure, delaying it’s implementation for almost three years. His arguments were that it was an unconstitional “taking” of his business without due process, that it exceeded the authority of the city charter, and that it unduly placed the citizens lives in danger because “no governmental service can perform the duties as well as a private business”.

    I’m not sure if he lost or was eventually paid off, but I was in high school before I saw the old 1940’s fire truck and 1950’s ambulance (which were ever-present fixtures at the football games) replaced by a more modern EMT van and ambulance, all owned by the city.

  25. 25

    Yep, no more socialism. ALL of the roads leading to Kemper’s little mall in Bellevue MUST BE REMOVED! It’s Commu-Socialism! I’m tired of Kemper TAKING MY MONEY and demanding big government solutions to getting people to his mall.

    Screw Kemper. I’m tired of socialists like him. If he wants roads to his mall, it’s HIS job to build them. It’s HIS job to rebuild 520. It’s his job to build I-405. Why should he steal money from MY pocket against my will to build roads I’ll never drive on to benefit his business?

    LOL

    — Republican (anti-reality) Dictionary —

    Socialism: Any program run by or paid for by the government which benefits people other than me. ex) Buses (I don’t take) = Socialism

    Capitalism: Any private sector or government program run by or paid for by private sector or government which benefits me. ex) Roads (I use) = Capitalism. Also, S&L Bailout = Capitalism.

  27. 27

    # 25: I just had a great idea.

    (1) Put the light rail track through Bellevue above-ground, going straight down N.E. 8th Street in front of Bellevue Square.

    (2) Have transit stops in Bellevue at least one mile south of Bellevue Square and one mile north of Bellevue Square.

    (3) For pedistrian and vehicle safety, close N.E. 8th street through downtown Bellevue. Install jersey barriers to cut off east-west traffic along N.E. 8th Street and N.E. 4th Street. Unfortunately, this will make it damned hard to get to Bellevue Square, but safety must come first!

  29. 29

    – Republican (anti-reality) Dictionary –

    Socialism: Any program run by or paid for by the government which benefits people other than me. ex) Buses (I don’t take) = Socialism

    A slight modification may be in order.

    Socialism: Any program run by or paid for by the government which benefits people with darker skin than me. Even if it also benefits me – no matter how much it benefits me. ex) Buses (I don’t take) = Socialism

  30. 30

    @21 Oh…you mean Eastside bicyclists are the same kind of assholes as Eastside drivers?

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