The scrubbing of right-wing wunderkind Hans Zeiger’s prolific written record continues apace, with posts now disappearing from wing-nutty standard bearer WorldNetDaily. Wow. The gay-bashing dominionists are really bending over backwards to help this guy out.
But as long as Zeiger’s in position to win a seat in the state Legislature, the voters of the 25th LD deserve to know where he really stands on the issues. Like whether U.S. Rep. Jim McDermott really is “a full-throated, maniacal traitor against God and country,” and whether Seattle’s St. Mark’s Episcopal Cathedral really is, um, Christian:
Congressman Jim McDermott is a traitor. I told him so myself on a Seattle radio station just prior to the Iraq war after the seven-term Democrat blatantly sided with Saddam Hussein instead of the United States. On Tuesday, McDermott’s hatred of America and America’s God surfaced once again as he led the Pledge of Allegiance on the floor of Congress minus the words “under God.”
[…] McDermott himself is not an atheist. He claims attendance at St. Mark’s Episcopal Cathedral in Seattle, hardly a Christian church. St. Mark’s is currently promoting a “Statement of Faith-based support for Same-sex marriage” and preaches almost exclusively about “social justice,” “peace,” and “diversity” while nary a mention is made of sin and salvation.
[…] It is convenient to think that Jim McDermott is a harmlessly unique product of liberal Seattle, but the truth is McDermott hates America, he despises our Godly heritage, and he sits in the way of the cause of liberty. … I don’t expect Jim McDermott to lose his seat in Congress this election year, but I do expect Americans to understand he is a full-throated, maniacal traitor against God and country.
It is, of course, one thing to attempt to discredit the policies of those who hold opposing political views. McDermott is one of the most liberal and outspokenly liberal members of Congress, so I can understand why righties like Zeiger despise him even more than voters here in Seattle love him.
But Zeiger’s pattern of dismissing even his fellow Christians as “hardly Christian” simply because they hold different political views is awfully disturbing. Zeiger not only doesn’t recognize or embrace the separation of church and state , he doesn’t even accept the separation of his particular church and state. Rigidly believe as as Zeiger believes, and worship God the way Zeiger worships, or you are “a full-throated, maniacal traitor against God and country.”
No doubt Zeiger had WND delete this post because he knew such rhetoric wouldn’t sit well with most American Christians, let alone most 25th LD voters, but the more he attempts to scrub his written record, the more our press has an obligation to let voters know what it really says.
The sad part is that this kind of stuff really doesn’t surprise me that much. It’s pretty much what I have come to expect from wingnuts and their leaders.
I mean, Rush made a song titled ‘Barack the Magic Negro,’ and his wingnut fans seem to think that is fine. Furthermore, they have the gall to question why anyone assume that they are racist.
1 – Chip Saltsman thought that song would make a super duper Republican stocking stuffer.
http://tpmelectioncentral.talk....._sends.php
Ha ha, I love the euphemism at the end of that article stating that Rush’s songs are ‘light-hearted political parodies.’
Surely that is Zeiger’s excuse, too. I mean, calling the Girl Scouts of America ‘a gathering of radical feminists, lesbians, and cookie peddlers’ is lighthearted, right?
Sorry, HAlibs but calling oneself Christian is meaningless.
MCD may have been born a Catholic and then chosen Episcopalism as church-light, but does anyone really believe who talks like this fat, red faced Irishman? Do you think when Jimmy McDimwitt asks “WWJD” he means J for Jesus? No way, Jose!
If anything, Christians like Jimmy ask how can they use their church to support what they want to do! .. “What would Jimmy Do?” is the REAL question.
We need this country to return to its moral, Jesus given roots. Franklin, who wrote so much common sense, would be appalled by apostates like McDermitt.
In salivation with my brothers and sisters,
Glenn.
America’s God? I was unaware we had ONE. I’ve missed his billboards and commercials.
@4
The funniest thing about this statement is that the far right loonies will never accept that someone like McDermott, who has spent a good part of his life fighting for the rights of the poor and middle class, is Christian.
However, they will gladly accept someone like Maurice Clemmons, a convicted felon. Huckabee, who I assume at least represents some of the Christian community as he is a former Baptist preacher, even went so far as to pardon him from his jail sentence when he learned that Clemmons had found Jesus.
I’m not saying that Clemmons can’t be a Christian (frankly, I don’t care). However, the bias is a little nauseating.
Ahh… Gotta love those good God Fearing Real Americans’ over in Prosser.
Wingies like Zeiger just don’t seem to understand that hate, intolerance, and judgmentalism are not Christian values. McDermott’s entire political career has served Christian values.
I have a Facebook friend who is a big Hans Zeiger fan.
I just made this post:
“Hans Zeiger seems like a swell fellow. Teachers and Gays are terrorists who are more dangerous and Al Qaeda. Girl Scouts are a fetus aborting feminist training camp, Episcopalians are not Christians because they accept gays and Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Modern Baptists and Unitarians worship a “generic god”. Whackadoodle.”
It took him about 2.7 seconds to tell me that I am misinformed. I told him that it was his own words. He asked for sources to have “context”…
I then tried to give him all the URLs cited in the two Zeiger stories here. Facebook told me that I couldn’t post because it was “abusive content”. So I used tinyurl and that worked.
My friend is currently digesting his info.
@8
McDermott’s entire political career has served Christian values.
I think I just threw up in my mouth.
McDermott should be in jail.
Zeiger is a nutcase; agreed. But let’s not bring up Mcdermott, who should be in jail, who certainly should not be in congress, who if not in jail, should at least be in some place that would keep him safe and dry. The man is completely fucking nuts. So it doesn’t do anybody any good to bring him up to buttress the fact that Zeiger is also fucking nuts. But I do have to ask, how does a convicted felon get re-elected to congress?
In jail? For what????
It turned out he was right on Iraq. No weapons of mass destruction. No need to go to war, Saddam was effectively contained.
A lot more Congressmen should have been asking the questions he asked, and investigating as fully as he did, rather than converting to the sheep mode as George W. Bush used their Congressional authorization to “use force if all other means failed” to cut off all negotiations and proceed directly to war.
Of course, as Dick Cheney said at the conclusion of the first Gulf War, destroying the Iraqi army is the easy part. Occupying a country with as many diverse factions and tribal groups is much harder. In 1990 he used this as a justification for not continuing the war into Iraq to depose Saddam. Suddenly in 2003 he wouldn’t even admit to having made those previous statements.
Gimmie @ 10 shows why the wingnut right would have all been Tories during the Revolutionary War. After the war, they would have condemned the right to free speach as a dangerous liberal concept, and widely supported the Alien and Sedition Acts under the John Adams administration.
Peckernibbler @4,
Yes let’s do go back to a time of Christian values.
The Salem witch trials, for example? Where the church and village leaders (with the most Christian values) carried out their sadistic sexual fantasies on the local women based on an evil arrangment of moles.
Or, let’s take a little trip back to the very Christian slave era.
Of course, there’s the genocidal treatment of the native population that happened to be in the way of the settler’s and their Christian values.
There’s the era of the great Christian, Reagan and his sponsorship of gang killings and rape in Central America (the financing originating from having made a deal selling arms to the very unchristian Iranians). Ahmen….that was a holy time.
It’s ironic that your defense of immoral behavior consists of simply proclaiming your detractors to be immoral.
11
McDermott is not a “convicted felon.” Do you fucks ever rely on facts when you jump to your crazy conclusions?
@14 slingshot spews:
You need to attend Beck University and learn some REAL history ..
Just because these happened in a Christian society, that does not mean these people wre Christians and more than Jimmy McDimwitt is a Christian.
You mean the slaves captured and sold by the Muslims to Christians who saw this an opportunity to save the souls of these poor people. Have you noticed how many Black people are proud Christians?
Another myth. These “natives” were themselves Jews, the lost tribes of Israel! After they came here they lost their precious ties to our savior.
Yeh? AND he personally overthrow the world’s largest atheist regime! Any onw anna name an airport after Jimmy Carter?
Yours in salvitude
Glenn
@15 Hey stupid fuckwit, did not the court of appeals uphold his conviction and resulting 700k fine? What part of that court case did you miss? Any other conressman, in any other district would have been out on his ass in a second. What a fucking moran.
But as I said earlier, and will repeat for the short bus riders reading this, let’s not confuse the issues. Zeiger is a nutcase. . . bad. . . should not get elected.
Wow, scrubbing their own posts, rewriting their own history.
I think that’s worse journalism than writing everything in the first person.
17
I see that in your civics education, which I’m sure was prolonged and profound, you skipped the chapter that distinguished civil law from criminal law. There is a difference, genius, between a civil fine and a criminal conviction. The difference is actually quite significant, too.
How is being found guilty of illegal wiretapping not a criminal infraction? Illegal wiretapping is pretty damned serious. Is it not?
# 17: Nope. Wrong Again.
And before we forget, let’s remember that the source of this “issue” (which you conveniently omit) was a tape recording of Newt Gingrich consipring with Republican ethics committee heads to circumvent the sanctions which were imposed upon him by the House of Representatives as a result of a few of Gingrich’s many ethics “lapses”.
McDermot didn’t record the tape. He had a choice to turn it over to the ethics committee (where it would be handled by the very Republicans who participated in the call), or release it to the media. He chose to release it to the media.
McDermit was never convicted of anything. That would have required a criminal trial, which never occured. Not that the Republicans didn’t try – bu the prosecutors concluded there was no evidence McDermot intended to commit a crime.
So one of the other Republican participants in the call filed a civil lawsuit, which McDermit lost. Which is not too surprising, considering the control the Republicans had on the federal judiciary, especially the D.C. Circuit of Appeals. These were the same judges that at the same time gave the Whitewater special prosecutor a carte’ blanche to investigate anything and everything about the Clinton White House he wanted to do, which no other special prosecutor had ever been given, even during the Watergate years.
Of course, George W. Bush wasn’t going to allow such an investigation of his administration, the Special Prosecutor law was allowed to expire without being renewed.
Off Topic: I’m trying to get through to some friends in Christchurch, New Zealand. Phone calls not going through. A 7.2 magnitude earthquake hit this morning epicentered just four miles from that city (I don’t know if they meant from the city center, or from the city limits).
This so illustrates the moral bankruptcy of today’s Republican Party. He could be a chainsaw murderer and they’d rewrite history, lie, deceive, and cover up to get him into the Legislature as long as he puts an “(R)” next to his name and promises to toe the party line. There are no other qualifications to be a Republican candidate. Ike must be pissing in his grave.
Btw, I wonder which Tennessee prison Low Tax Looper (R) is serving his life-without-parole time in, now that Brushy Mountain is closed?
new post about the indictment of the priests, nuns, and social workers who are the anti-war movement:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ve04m.html
21
Dumbfuck, McDermott was never convicted of a crime. The point is simply not arguable. Move on.
@17
You should really make sure you know what you are talking about before you start calling people ‘stupid fuckwits.’ You stated that Jim McDermott is a convicted felon. A convicted felon is someone who has been found guilty of a felony offense in a criminal court. This statement is simply not true.
Go to this web page:
http://www.opencongress.org/wiki/James_McDermott
Scroll down to the part where it states that the incident you are referring to was a civil suit. Then look up the difference between a civil suit and a felony charge.
And then, if you have any balls, come back and say you were wrong.
@17 McDermott was never “convicted” of anything and never paid a 700K “fine,” dipshit. If you don’t know the difference between a criminal charge and civil proceeding, you should leave legal matters to people who know what they’re talking about. You sure don’t. Are all wingnuts as stupid and ignorant as you? (This is a rhetorical question; please don’t attempt to answer it!)
@27 Duke is a wingnut. By definition, he has no balls, and will never admit he’s wrong. That’s what wingnuts are — shriveling little cowards who don’t know a fact from a leotard and could care less.
@16;
If you knew anything about USA law, you would know that the USA does not name anything after someone who is alive. Carter does not have an airport named after him, because Carter is alive.
Reagan, on the other hand, died and a bunch of conservatives got together to name everything they possibly could after him because at least eh didn’t get impeached like Nixon. They certainly raised the bar…
I swear to God some of these trolls must be sixth graders.
One of those was the orange man, Boehner, in the House who has a bizarre addiction to golf. Here’s something fun about that guy:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....75399.html
All a lobbyist has to do to get Boehner’s attention is to help maintain his 7 stroke handicap.
@29
Yes, but I’m still going to call them out on it.
As they seem more than willing to call out grade school kids who don’t want to fight with bullies at school as ‘girly men with no balls’ http://horsesass.org/?p=29447#comment-1019718 (which is ridiculous, by the way), it only seems fitting that they should be forced to man up to their own asinine assertions.
Sunny Jim can have that seat as long as wants it.
He took action and spoke out against the right wing fruitcakes like Gingrich when it needed to be done.
@16 “Another myth. These ‘natives’ were themselves Jews, the lost tribes of Israel! After they came here they lost their precious ties to our savior.”
Er, hate to tell you this, sport, but the Native Americans came here from Mongolia about 50,000 to 90,000 years before Jesus was born.
“Reagan … personally overthrow the world’s largest atheist regime! Any onw anna name an airport after Jimmy Carter?”
Speaking of myths, this one is way high on the list of political urban legends. Aside from the fact the USSR wasn’t the world’s largest atheist regime (China is), there’s a whole slew of people who had more to do with the fall of the Soviet regime than Reagan did. The precise ordering of this list is debatable, but I would argue for:
#1 Gorbachev
#2 The Afghan mujahedeen
#3 Pope John Paul II
#4 Winston Churchill
#5 Not least, the east bloc peoples who revolted against communist rule, starting with the Polish trade unionists and their leader, Lech Walesa, and spreading from there
#6 Every U.S. president since Truman
#7 Among presidents, Truman is at least as important as Reagan
Beck@4
“In salivation with my brothers and sisters”
So you share sputum with your siblings?
Don’t remember Jesus (or Franklin for that matter)talking bout that.
Oh dear me. My very conservative brother, who was married at St Mark’s, will be bereft when he is informed he is hardly a Christian. He is really certain he has been one for more than 60 years.
@35 That post is satire, probably pointing towards Beck’s Mormon faith and the LDS belief that the lost tribe of Israel wasn’t so much lost, rather, it had sailed off to America. According to Joe Smith, following his crucifixion, Jesus showed up and showed off the nail holes in his hands and feet to the lost tribe of Jews here in America. heh- Joe received his revelations by putting a stone in his hat and then sticking his face in it while others recorded his blatherings.
Minor clarification for David @30:
“The USA” doesn’t name airports. That’s done by the local moguls. Which explains, perhaps, the name of Houston’s principal airport.
Thankfully, the IATA didn’t alter Bush Intercontinental’s three-letter designation (IAH … probably for Intercontinental Airport, Houston) when the city renamed the place in 1997.
@4 I love the way you Droolers (Salivationers) display such Haughtiness/Arrogance in interpreting God’s will for us. Let’s see… What does it say about being haughty in the Bible? Oh, yes, there it is…
Ta-da! God says you are an Abomination! Hey, not my words, they’re right there in the Bible. Proverbs 6:16-17
“But Zeiger’s pattern of dismissing even his fellow Christians as “hardly Christian” simply because they hold different political views is awfully disturbing.”
So, I imagine you’ll be calling all the posters here who claim conservatives can’t be christian out as well? And Ed Schultz? And all the other folks on the left who confuse charity by force of government arms with true personal charity as the christian church call for?
Yeah. Thought so.
@39 The Anchorage airport was named after Ted Stevens while he was in office. There’s a building in Bremerton named after the still kicking and serving Norm Dicks.
Jim McDermott is an ass. He hates this country and what it stands for. He went to Iraq before the war without any authority and in contravention of the separation of powers to display his hatred of this country. He used an illegally obtained tape to try to smear political opponents, and got away with a slap on the wrist instead of the serious prison time he should have gotten. (And don’t give me any bull about him not knowing it was illegal. He did, or he’s a moron. Well, both.) He hates the social structure of this country. He hates the center right political atmosphere of this country. He hates the economic model of this country. Basically he’s a good European, and would be happier there than trying to destroy my country.
Only in a communist cell like Seattle could he retain his seat. Anywhere else he’d be legitimately told to go to hell by the voters.
“So, I imagine you’ll be calling all the posters here who claim conservatives can’t be christian out as well?”
Another baseless accusation from Lost. When are you going to ever back up this crap of yours? And are you still claiming head-in-the-sand ignorance about Dominionists and Reconstructionists?
“He hates…” “He hates…” “He hates…” “He hates…”
Coming from the guy who loves America so much that he talks repeatedly of bailing out and moving to another country. Project much, Lost?
Any church that adopts gay marriage, gay pastoral staff or any other acknowledgement of homosexuality as a christian practice is in fact not christian.
Homosexuality is a hot button issue, but this would be equally true of a church which elevated practicing embezzlers or adulterers to leadership. Anyone practicing an unrepentant sin does not belong in church leadership, in a Christian church. The Bible is very clear on homosexuality (an abomination Biblically) and to pretend otherwise for political convenience is a dangerous practice spiritually.
I don’t attend St Marks, I know little about Episcopalian doctrine, so make no judgements. I wouldn’t anyway, as I’ve plenty of problems of my own to deal with and no right to accuse anyone else. But it would be analgous to joining a country club and trying to change the rules of golf for personal preference. It wouldn’t make sense. Don’t like Christianities stance on homosexuality, adultery, theft or anything else? Change your faith. At least that would be honest.
@43
Oh boy!!! Why stop there, this seems like fun!
I’ve got one: Jim McDermott is an alien doppleganger. He hopes to enslave us all, forcing us to while away our lives in his underground jelly making factory. After years of servitude our misery will be ended as his species descends upon us to suck out our brains through long bendy straws.
Re 44 and 45
At my church I’ve heard not one word about either Dominionists or Reconstructionists. Head in the sand? Not so much. I just have more important things to do than surf the web for anything that will make Christianity look badly.
It’s because of traitorous scum like McDermott and the governmental trend towards his anti American policies that I would move. It’s because, unable to watch the destruction of that which I love about this country, I’d rather go where I don’t have to do so. I notice, as usual, that you gravitate towards the personal attack, rather than answer any one of the critiques about Baghdad Jim.
Re 47
It would be wonderful if all of what I wrote were as unrealistic as what you satirically do. Unfortunately all that I wrote is in fact true. Sad day for this country when scum like him are elevated to power rather than laughed out of the room.
lost: “Any church that adopts gay marriage, gay pastoral staff or any other acknowledgement of homosexuality as a christian practice is in fact not christian.”
Bullshit. Please quote Christ for me on the issue of homosexuality. I can wait for as long as it takes for you to find such a quote. While you’re at it, give me a verse from either the Old or New Testament addressing abortion. Also, when miscarriages are referenced in Scripture, can you cite a verse to me about gnashing of teeth and a funeral that followed? We’re commanded to love. Christ will not condemn someone for creating that person gay. You are really full of it today. Judgmental dickhead.
“I notice, as usual, that you gravitate towards the personal attack, rather than answer any one of the critiques about Baghdad Jim.”
You can go fuck yourself, Lost. But before you do, pull your head out of your ass and bone up on wingnut Dominionism and the Reconstructionists.
“I notice, as usual, that you”
I notice that, as usual, you ran away from the earlier open thread where you were getting your ass handed to you. heh-
Re 50
Christ said he came to fulfill the law, not break it. The old Testament refers to homosexuality as an abomination.
Christ offers mercy and forgiveness of sin, Yes. For the repentant, not for those who wish for license to continue in the sin, be it homosexuality or a less emotionally Christ provide the means of righting ourselves with God.
As for “We’re commanded to love. Christ will not condemn someone for creating that person gay,” you’re right in part. Christ didn’t ‘create someone gay.’ A gay person made choices, possibly made more difficult by genetic predisposition. But to use genetics as a justification for behavior opens a door I’m unsure you want opened. Does it justify murder? Rape? Child molestation? After all, these are behaviors, and by your argument the criminal is helpless against them. I have a genetic predisposition to heart disease. Should I embrace it, eat like a pig and die of a heart attack at 40? After all, I had no choice, right?
Christ loves the sinner, and wants repentance so that an illness can be cured. He never justified sin, or normalized it.
None of this matters, for the non-Christian. Nor would I make it a matter of public policy for just that reason. But to claim Christianity and reject what it means makes no sense.
“Sad day for this country when scum like him are elevated to power rather than laughed out of the room.”
I take it that you’re talking about Zeiger. Good on you, Lost. heh-
Re 51
I don’t bone up on it because it doesn’t matter to me. The fringe elements don’t determine the core beliefs, or didn’t you know that?
Nor do I run away from any issue. Sometimes I have other things to do. Sometimes it makes for an interesting view of how someone else thinks to comment and watch the reaction. But you assign far too much importance to yourself if you believe you figure that largely in my life, old buddy, as to make me run.
“I take it that you’re talking about Zeiger. ”
Actually, yes, if Goldy is accurately quoting him and in context. I don’t vote in that district so haven’t researched it. Unfortunately Goldy hasn’t the intellectual honesty for these smear attacks for those with whose politics he agrees.
Lost @ 46 you loose me when you start making judgment calls on what is and is not Christian. Might not be “your” brand of Christian, or the type of church you want to attend, but let’s leave it there. I don’t go for that rolling around shit on the floors and speaking in tongues, but have long believed that if that is what gets you up in the morning and helps you lead a civilized life then so be it.
There is more in the bible about tattoos, then their is about abortion. You want to take the whole bible literally, then do it, don’t pick just the stuff you like. Read the entire book of Leviticus, use it’s edicts to the nth degree then get back to me.
Until then, let’s leave the gays alone – they have enough shit to deal with, without us determining that Christ hates them. Let’s leave other people of other races alone, let’s for once actually live our faith by turning the other cheek. We have some really big shit to deal with, in our economy, our environment, and a whole group of people overseas who hate our guts. Let’s leave the hate to them and move on.
Postscript: I did read up on Jim McDermott’s trial and judgment. Many of you are right, in that he was not convicted of a felony as I previously wrote – I stand corrected. He was however fined and ordered to pay 1.05 million dollars for illegally releasing wiretapped information. I do stand by my assertion that in any other district he would have found himself challenged by both democrats and republicans and probably beaten. He really, truly is not a good representative of what is good about Seattle.
The USSR is no more because we spent them out of existence with our military projects. They simply couldn’t compete because communism can’t produce wealth like capitalism can.
On a lighter note, all religions are a pack of lies, just like Vonnegut said in “Cat’s Cradle.” The Golden Rule pretty much sums up what we need to do.
“Nor do I run away from any issue.”
Horseshit. Instead of running away as you always do, please finally share with us your vision of how America should deal with the millions of women who “murder” their little baby blastocysts and zygotes.
@58
Well that, and the Saudi’s glutting the world oil market and under cutting the Russian on price. The Saudi’s probably had more to do with it than we did.
@58
Yep, pretty much.
“The fringe elements don’t determine the core beliefs, or didn’t you know that?”
Since you’re still claiming ignorance, what leads you to conclude that they’re “fringe elements”? Don’t answer. Maintain your ignorance, Lost. You’ll be happier, I’m sure.
lost
There is a huge distinction between consensual sexual relations between adults and murder. Such sexual relations don’t hurt anyone. Murder, however, involves considerable harm to others. Equating the acts is pretty sloppy thinking.
57
I’ll give Duke credit for acknowledging his error.
“There is a huge distinction between consensual sexual relations between adults and murder.”
Criminally? Socially? On the grounds of relative transgressions? You’re absolutely right.
The only equation I was trying to make was between behaviors generally though. Either we control our behavior and are accountable for it, or we don’t. Admittedly the comparison behaviors were a bit loaded in order to make the point. Either genetics is the ultimate release from personal responsibility or it’s a predisposition over which we have some control.
RE 62
Any comment on the various critiques of McDermott at 43, or will you continue to try to find distractions from you inability to do so?
It looks like Lost gladly joind Klynical and Puddy in judging who is and who isn’t a real Christian.
There are more than 600 Mosaic laws, Lost. Do you follow all of them? Do you even attempt to follow all of them? Do you even know them all?
@57
Duke, excellent post, and I apologize for the tone of my previous posts. You don’t seem to fall into the complete wingnuttery category along with lost and Cynical. You seem like a pretty rational person.
I don’t agree with you about McDermott, as the wiretaping incident you keep referring to as your reason for not liking him seems to me more like both sides playing politics than any real ethics violation on his part. It seems like a minor thing, in my opinion, when compared to the myriad of politicians who willingly pilfer the public coffers to give special contracts to their buddies. Like many here, I give McDermott credit for having the moral fiber to question the invasion of Iraq when so many of his peers turned into willing pawns of the Bush administration. But hey, that’s my opinion, and you are entitled to yours as well.
@65
Lost, don’t forget to hold them accountable for my critiques @47 as well.
Thank you masaba. It is nice (every once in awhile) to politly agree to disagree.
AS TO THE REST OF THESE ASSHOLES!!!! (It’s Friday, I make myself laugh).
You spewed multiple “I hate…” remarks @43. I already replied to your hate-filled screed @45, which was more of a reply than your hate-filled ass deserves. Isn’t about time for you to run away again? Don’t you have some faulty wiring on a Spitfire to fix, or whatever today’s pathetic excuse for running away will be?
Re 57
If it came across poorly that’s my fault.
All that I meant to say was this. Christianity accepts that everyone has flaws and is sinful by nature. Christ provided the means for forgiveness of those sins and re-setting ones relationship with God. The sin is itself not relative. Gluttony and theft and homosexuality or a gambling addiction aren’t on a scale. All are issues we need Christ to help us in righting, and all are equally serious as they separate us from God.
And there are things that make someone not Christian. Not believing in the divinity of Christ, for instance. It doesn’t make them evil, or hateful. It just makes them not Christian.
Having said that, I repeat what I wrote earlier. I’ve got far too much of my own to work on without attempting judgement on someone else.
You can call McDermott a traitor all you want, but you won’t talk about President Bush, who publicly mocked 2800 soldiers he sent to die in Iraq. Yea, his little joke where he looked under the seat cushions in the Oval Office for non-existent weapons of mass destruction. If Clinton had done that, you would have had militia groups dragging him out of the White House and hanging him on the nearest oak.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKX6luiMINQ
I also appreciated Duke’s post. I admit that I don’t have a whole lotta love for McDermott, but I conclude that he must serve his district well, seeing as how they keep re-electing him. That’s their call, not mine.
Re 66
Much of the Mosiac law had to do with purification and redemption of faults pre-Christ. Christ made much of that redundant in creating a direct link to God for men.
You might note, if you were capable of that kind of honesty, that I explicitly didn’t judge who was and wasn’t Christian. I judge the church I attend because I must, and leave the rest to the congregations or adherents of those with doctrinal differences.
Re 68
Already done at 49. I wish the criticisms of McDermott were as silly as you wish they were.
No, got that done. In a while I’ll be leaving to go backpacking for the weekend, though. That is, if I have your permission.
RE 70
And a masterful response it was! Replete with fact based statements refuting everything I said. Or, well, not. I’m curious if you’re even able to argue a real point, or if diversion is your the only shot in your locker.
And I actually will be ‘running away’ soon, to take the kids backpacking for the weekend. That is, if I have your permission to have a life, Steve?
“It just makes them not Christian.”
“I’ve got far too much of my own to work on without attempting judgement on someone else.”
God fucking grief.
RE 72
Umm yes, I have. Repeatedly. Though not on that specific issue, I’ve repeatedly said that the Iraq war was a mistake. Why is this so difficult for you folks to grasp?
And try to grasp the nuance. Bush was the commander in chief, and the person responsible for foreign policy when Baghdad Jim violated the separations of powers in his pre-war jaunt. You can disagree with the policy, and I do. But Bush had the right to make it, Jimmy Boy didn’t.
Where, by the way, was the outrage from the left when all soldiers serving in Iraq were there because they were too dumb to have better options. Or did you forget that little gem from our esteemed VP?
Re 75
“Not believing in the divinity of Christ, for instance. It doesn’t make them evil, or hateful. It just makes them not Christian.”
Yeah. That’s pretty controversial. I mean, I can be a Buddhist and believe Christ had a cool beard, and that makes me a Christian, right?
In your world, maybe words don’t have clear definitions, or distinct meaning. In mine, they do.
“It just makes them not Christian.”
“I explicitly didn’t judge who was and wasn’t Christian.”
You’re a real fucking hypocrite, Lost. I thought you should know.
“And a masterful response it was! Replete with fact based statements refuting everything I said.”
@43 “I hate…” “I hate…” “I hate…” “I hate…”
What’s there to refute? Really, Lost, you make a KLOWN look smart, and that isn’t easy to do.
Can we get back to the point here? I am one of the wingnut conservatives on this post and I think that Zeiger is a complete . . .(I sit here trying to figure out the word to use). Can we agree that someone this polarizing should not be in elective office? Who is going to jangle the mainstream media to do something? Who is going to write a letter or two? Do I see any hands?
@ 30. David spews:
Ha ha!
Yeh, and if you knew anything about US history you would know that WASHINGTON DC was panned while the truth teller was still alive!
It is sad that supposedly educated people know so little.
Your brother in salivation.
Re 79
On that we agree provided those quotes are real and in context. (Remember Shirley Sherrod?) It’s in cases like this that I would vote for a rational democrat over a Republican who isn’t.
And as amusing as I find the distraught terror with which the left regards the Tea Party Movement or whatever it’s called I view it with some concern myself. In a year in which Republican gains are inevitable, regaining one or both houses of Congress is imperiled by these off base candidates. Rationale moderate candidates would likely have ensured this goal. As it is, I’m not so sure.
@ 35. Roger Rabbit spews:
What a load of psuedoscientific crap
Read the book of Morman you fool!
Yours in salvitude.
Glenn
@40. Brooklyn Reader
And liberal claim we Christians are bigots!
Yours in salvation,
Glenn
ps
Salivation is anormal bodily function, given to us by God. How do YOU justify anal intercourse?
LSIB
Right on brother!
Not only that, McD would horrify a good Christian patriot like my hero, Ben Franklin!
Your salvation is mine,
Glen
@71 LSIB
Yeh!
What a boon! Look at Newt Gingrich! He became a Catholic, got baptized and all his sins are now washed away.
My salvation is in your hands,
Glen
@LSIB
77. lostinaseaofblue spews:
Re 75
Again, the libtards and Muslims fail to study history. If Jesus was not God incarnate, how could he have appeared to Paul or met with his people in America BEFORE the Europeans came?
We need a revolution or salvation!
Glenn
Lost repeatedly spews his hatred of another person. Lost is no Christian.
Lost repeatedly and unrepentantly spews his contempt for minorities. Lost is not a Christian.
Lost repeatedly and without repent spews his contempt of the unemployed. Lost is no Christian.
Lost repeatedly and with no remorse or repent spews his contempt of the poor. Lost is not a Christian.
You’re no Christian, Lost. You’re just an asswipe.
“We need a revolution or salvation!”
heh- Either that or more salivation.
@76
Umm yes, I have. Repeatedly. Though not on that specific issue
Well, then you haven’t, nor has any Republican, right wing pundit or Fox News. I’m referring to one specific incident by Bush, as you referred to McDermott being a traitor over one specific incident. Seems sending 2800 troops to their deaths, then laughing about it is quite peachy with you (or you’re claiming “ignance” since it wasn’t covered on Fox).
Maybe Herr Beck is salivating at the thought of a revolution?
In the first sentence you come close to a real point that makes me think about what you have to say. Mr. McDermott is a creation of God as surely as you, or I. Given that my intense dislike of the man is in fact unchristian. My apologies.
But in true Steve fashion you then go off into some fantasy land of your own devising. Expressing a desire to treat poverty, unemployment as misfortunes that aren’t the business of government isn’t contempt.
As for contempt for minorities? Put down the crack pipe Steve. Put it down.
Have a nice weekend.
Re 89
I don’t watch Fox or any TV. I don’t get my interpretation of the world secondhand from them or anyone else.
You haven’t addressed whether McDermott had any business in Iraq yet. Bush policies I can disagree with, while admitting his Constitutional right to propose and enforce them in this case. McDermott took it on himself to assume authority he didn’t have. There is a difference, whether you’re prepared to see it or not.
“Expressing a desire to treat poverty, unemployment as misfortunes that aren’t the business of government isn’t contempt.”
You’re so full of shit, Lost. Of the fate of the unemployed victims of decades of the failure that is Reaganomics you said, “I don’t know and I don’t care.” What the fuck is that? Brotherly fucking love? That open thread was littered throughout with your contempt for minorities, the unemployed and the poor.
You are no Christian, Lost. You’re just a damned poser.
@92 lsib
Maybe you do need lessons form Beck.
McDemott NEVER “assume(d) authority he didn’t have”
While I can imagine someone charging him with treason, given the FACT that war was NOT justified, I suspect JM would have loved THAT court case because it would have forced Bush to claim that HIS actions were consitutional.
If you actually read the Federalist papers, their intent was to be VERY restrictive of the presidential authority to make war. Bush is not alone in stretching that authority anymore than McDermott is alone in siding with the side declared to be an enemy by the President.
LSIB .. what I find stange about you, vs a lot of the Trolls here, you actually seem thoughtful.
What I NEVER see from Puddy, Cynic, MOT or the Beckoner is an effort to present a rational opposing POV. You, OTOH, do seem to try.
Yet, somehow, the end result is always the same .. you end up taking the side of the Wing nuts even when their side .. as in most of Beck ,, is absurd and truly anti American.
You hatred on JM is great example. I do not like him either. He is an ineffective showboat who does a lousy job of representing the interests of his District. E.g. I have NEVER seen him take a stand in issues that affect the UW.
Demonizing the guy is another matter all together. Why should it matter or why should you even know if JM considers himself a Christian? Franko was devout Catholic. Does thta make you feel better about him? MLK was a devout baptist. Dopes that mean he was a better person than my rabbi (who marched with MLK?)/
Call me perplexed.
Steve
That comment almost sums up your problem!
Join me in the salvation revolution!
Your TRUE brother
Glenn
@95 Well, OK, I’ll give it a try. But I’ve got to tell you, Glenn, that journey to salivation I joined you on earlier turned out to be a real slobber fest. And you didn’t even offer to help me clean up afterwards. And that “buy high, sell low” Goldline thing you talked me into? That didn’t work out too well for me either. But the third time’s a charm, they say, so I’ll give it a go.
News item: “Incumbent Republican Jan Brewer said Thursday she has no intention of participating in any more events with Democrat Terry Goddard.”
heh- Good idea, Jan.
“LSIB .. what I find stange about you, vs a lot of the Trolls here, you actually seem thoughtful.”
Well, thoughtful in a shallow and insipid sort of way perhaps. He uses a lot of words but manages to say so very little.
Steve
I hope you mean it.
FYI, we do not condone brotherly fucking!
Just imagine the shock, Ben Franklin would have at today’ sexual mores.
Be saved, it can not hurt!
Glenn
SJ
Actually, I made no comment on McDermotts religion or lack thereof. Must have been someone else.
I think the religion angle came about because Goldy took offense at a candidate questioning the faith of another candidate. I merely pointed out that this is hardly either new or confined to Tea Party candidates or the right. Schultz commonly uses this tactic, and my good friend Steve just did not 2 posts ago on me.
As to the Federalist papers I don’t think the left wants to invoke these. The presidential war powers were limited (though Bush acted fully within them, whatever I think of his reasons for doing so.) But most of the social platform the left wishes would have been frowned on by them.
Now, the people we’re camping with are here, so I’ll wish everyone a pleasant weekend.
“He uses a lot of words but manages to say so very little.”
Xebeche
re 100:
Constitutionally, Congress alone shall declare war. How can Bush act constitutionally within his ‘war powers’ if there is no war? You live in a phantasy world where Bush uses his war powers without a war being declared and you know what the founding fathers would think of current social programs.
The only thing you really know is what your own prejudices are and you declare them to be those of the founding fathers.
“Peace” everyone! Srsly, WTF?
I am surprised we don’t have parishioners from St Marks chiming in. While its always dangerous for Christians to question the faith of other Christians (especially of diff denominations), its worth noting …
St Marks till recently had as head of their “faith formation” ministry a woman who simultaneously believed in Islam. St Marks lacked the stones to get rid of her; it took a bishop in Rhode Island to call her on this
The minsitry is largely around left wing causes. Most moderate to conservative Christians are baffled by what ST marks focuses on (bunch of pro Palestine stuff, gay rights, etc).
Recently they held a big party (for an art group)…had acrobats swinging across the alter. A real church would never allow a room full of drunks invading their alter and sanctuary.
You know, many consider the Episc church to be the religious arm of the Democratic Party.
Waiting for Joel Connelly to chime in; he frequently writes (he’s a parisoner) in the PI about St Marks.
Finally!
Here is a man who can definitively tell us which religions are the evil ones.
I believe tradition dictates that we begin the cleansing with the Cathars (if there are any). After that, all bets are off.
I suggest the The Pear of Anguish. Speeds repentance every time.
re 104: Barry Goldwater was an Episcopalian. The Episcopalian church is the Church of England in America and is populated mostly with conservative Republicans.
Rich Republican Episcopalians think of Veiger as a useful bumpkin.
107; you are mistaken; my former church has changed radically since the 60’s. and by the way its not church of england; its part of anglican communion and so is similar, but indeed is different.
my point holds true; its the most left wing of all US christian denominations.
In your opinion, would rounding up a select handful of the errant church’s leadership and subjecting them to ritualistic public torture be effective at redeeming the souls of the flock?
Or is a “final solution” in order?
doc..109…what a riduculous response to my topical argument. many mainstream christians also feel same about say mormons or unitarians…which just reflects a theological dispute
maybe you are confusing Christian sects with islam..
The “topic” is Hans Zeiger.
And clearly Mr. Zeiger is not satisfied with thoughtfully excluding sectarian debates from the political and legal system.
So you’re basically full of shit covering for a Christo-fascist who nurtures wet dreams of a modern day Kristallnacht.
sorry, i don’t know this zeiger person; i’m just pointing out he’s close to the mark by noting st marks is hardly christian. i can’t comment on the rest, since i don’t know who he is
re 108: “This web site is for the Anglican (Episcopal) Church around the world. Its purpose is to help us Anglicans and Episcopalians communicate with each other ….”
http://www.anglican.org/
Do you ever know what the hell you are talking about?
Real America® meets Real Christianity®.
uh, 113,114…original argument on this was “episc is church of england”. i corrected folks; episc is anglican, c of e is also anglican. episc is considered within the anglican communion, to be about the most left wing in the communion. Canada perhaps more so. C of England as example still is fighting over allowing women as Bishops.
for what its worth, the majority of Anglicans now are in the 3rd world; especially sub saharan Africa; 70mm anglicans in the world; episc church only about 3 mm of that
Real America® meets Real Christianity® meets Wikipedia®.
Whoop! Whoop!