I might even start driving again if this keeps up:
State troopers are on a mission to make sure the left lane on area freeways is used for its intended purpose: passing.
“We’re doing 58, 59 miles an hour and they are just sitting there, traffic’s passing them on the right hand side,” Trooper Keith Leary said while pointing out a car in the left lane of Interstate 5. “That’s exactly what we don’t want to see happen.”
The driver, Brasta Bonifcho, said he was surprised what he was doing was illegal.
“I didn’t know that, I really didn’t know that,” he said. “I am guilty, no question about it.”
Leary reminded Bonifcho that drivers need to stay in the right lanes unless they’re passing another vehicle.
Like most people who move here from out of state, I was floored by how poor the driving was when I moved here. And it’s still common to see people here refer to the left lane as the “fast lane”, rather than the passing lane. Hopefully, this crackdown will help people understand the difference, as one cannot define the meaning of “fast” the way they can define the meaning of “passing.”
Passing lane, fast lane…..I don’t care what you call it. If its gets the slow fucks out of the left lane, then start ticketing them now. I moved here from the San Diego area 11 years ago and I too was appalled at the fucked up driving habits in this region. Asians doing 45 on the freeway. Traffic stopping for no apparent reason despite the lack of traffic impediments up ahead. Idiot fuck wads stopping and thus blocking traffic on surface streets in order to let some other equally idiotic driver make an ill advised left turn. And my personal favorite….numb nuts who drive in the left lane and do 60 in traffic free conditions and justify it by saying they are just doing the speed limit. Its called the FAST lane for a reason!!!!!
Speaking of God . . . .
http://www.jamesdobsondoesntspeakforme.com/
People here drive like idiots. Thank all that is good and right that those self-proclaimed speed limit enforcers who go 60 MPH in the left lane will finally get what’s coming to them.
As for the whole “fast lane” thing, I blame the Eagles.
@1
And my personal favorite….numb nuts who drive in the left lane and do 60 in traffic free conditions and justify it by saying they are just doing the speed limit. Its called the FAST lane for a reason!!!!!
But to them, 60 is “fast enough” (and yes, I’ve heard people who actually say that). That’s why you call it the passing lane instead of the fast lane, so that it’s clearer why they’re being a douchebag. :)
Sometimes you have to be in the fast-lane to get the freeway x-it you need.
As I recall, the Eages’ song was ‘Life in the Fast Lane’ — not, ‘Life in the Passing Lane’.
And when I’m in the fast lane, I’m passin’ everything.
AND, the people here are the most polite drivers I’ve ever seen. My driving skills were deveoped in ‘boomtown’ Phoenix, and honed in Denver.
Sometimes, I almost feel bad for taking advantage of the WA drivers.
It’s too easy.
4 – They can drive “fast enough” in the right lane. It should be painfully obvious that 60 IS NOT “fast enough” for a sizeable % of drivers on the freeway. The self appointed speed enforcers can go fuck themselves.
I think some of you are missing the point of what the troopers are telling you. STAY IN THE RIGHT LANE EXCEPT TO PASS. The left lane is for passing so even if you are driving faster than most other motorists, if nobody is in the right lane you need to get in it. The idea is to have the left lane as open as possible, not to be clogged with people going over the speed limit (which by the way is against the law and you can be ticketed for. You aren’t passing in the traditional two lane highway sense so you are still expected to go the speed limit).
This makes me SOOOO happy to see! I’ve been pondering the purchase of a ’70s era Cadillac monstrosity for the sole purpose of bullying slow left-hand drivers off the road…. Something so huge it also blocks the (non-existent) bike lane and prevents bikers from passing on the right and forcing everyone to slowly go around them again and again after every traffic light (another pet peeve of mine).
Washington could go a LONG ways to improving traffic conditions in the state by actually requiring people demonstrate a basic understanding of the simplest road rules. Imagine if drivers actually had to take a drivers test every four years, and they were required to drive on a freeway, to demonstrate basic merging and passing skills. Force people to take a test and increase the minimum driving age to around 25 and we might actually see an improvement in traffic.
@7 I’ll take this brief opportunity to agree with you about something.
@1 “Asians doing 45 on the freeway.” If you had any history here that’d be more funny and true than bigoted. But you don’t, so it’s not, you commie-fascist bigot. But to clue you in, there used to be two places in Seattle where one would invariably encounter absolutely horrible drivers – Ballard and Beacon Hill. Ballard was slightly worse than Beacon Hill. You figure it out, troll.
Here’s a rule: If you feel like a rock in a river getting passed on both sides…YOU’RE GOING TOO FUCKING SLOW.
1) Step on the gas.
2) Move right.
3) Take one of those stoopid fucking buses.
4) Stay home.
But the main thing is to get the fuck out of the way of The Producers. Since we do all the real work and carry most of the load, the least you can do is get the fuck out of our way while we’re trying to do something.
And another thing…
You idiot fucking prius driving “hypermilers” out there. Knock it off. Stop driving 45 while you stare at your MPG meter. You’re a fucking pain in the ass to the rest of us. Get the fuck out of our way.
@11 “The Producers”. What, you commie-fascists? The Producers? Thanks for the laugh, freak.
@12 We’re all quite familiar with your driving style, thank you. If you want to pass, then pass. Tailgate me again at 80 and I’ll shove a hot exhaust pipe up your ass, you commie-fascist freak.
@11
But the main thing is to get the fuck out of the way of The Producers.
What exactly do you produce other than unintentional comedy?
I thought he was talking about the Mel Brooks film/play.
I enjoy going arround corners quickly otherwise the limit +5 is ok with me.
I try to play nice, but I know as my knee gets close to the ground and the bike is seriouly tipped into the curve, some observers are sure I’m an utter madman. I do have close to 40 years on bikes, car to bike contact twice over those years, only one take down at about five mph. Still looking for the next accident with some care.
Wow. I’m with you on the rudeness, but I find it surprising that all you libertarians are showing such support for police cracking down on folks driving the speed limit in the left lane. Shouldn’t folks have the personal freedom to drive at whatever speed they want in whatever lane?
How about this… in exchange for cracking down on slowpokes in the passing lane, can we open the far right lane to all-electric vehicles that top out at 40 MPH? Such a vehicle would suffice for 90 percent of my driving if only I could legally use it to cross the I-90 bridge.
Puget Sound area freeways have two rather unique factors.
One is the stupid left-lane entrance and exit ramps that Keri Andrews’ grandfather designed into our system. News flash: the perpetual slowdown southbound on the Ship Canal bridge is almost entirely caused by all the idiots who get on at NE 45th St. and then play “here-I-come-ready-or-not” across four lanes in half a mile to get to 520. Oh yeah…the other wankers who try to cut them off make it even worse.
The other is the nitwits who use the left-lane slowpokes as an excuse to play dodgem-cars weaving through traffic in the two right-hand lanes at 70 or more.
The real problem is that we’ve got a mess of very expensive roads (how the fuck did they get to be named “freeways” anyway?) with thousands and thousands of people in big metal boxes, each compelled to show the others what hot shit he or she is, and call it a “transportation system”. It’s a little like allowing everyone to go to the hospital and operate on each other, and calling it “health care”.
@17: LOL. When it comes down to it, they’re all pinkos at heart.
BTW, to the post itself, compared to some other places I’ve lived that I’ve lived, driving here is fantastic. Driving skills in general seem to be in decline around the country, however.
@18
It’s a little like allowing everyone to go to the hospital and operate on each other, and calling it “health care”.
That might actually be kind of amusing… at least as long as you’re the operator, and not the operatee… ;)
@17
Goldy, driving is a privilege, not a right. :)
I’ve long been annoyed at why police focus on traffic violations that do not impact other drivers (like speeding on an open highway, seat belts), while ignoring the driving violations that do, like this one. Within the world of traffic, you have to have rules, and the rules have to be policed, but the traffic will be most efficient when police focus on the behaviors that most negatively impact other drivers.
I plead guilty – at least in part.
I commute daily from Everett to Bellevue. When I get on I-5 Southbound, I stay in the right-hand lane, because I’ve got to take the I-405 exit at Alderwood anyway.
But once I get on I-405, I get get in the left-hand lane IMMEDIATELY, and stay there for the entire commute until I crest the hill just north of the 520 interchange, at which point I start moving over so I can be in the right-hand lane when I exit at N.E. 8th St. in Bellevue.
Why do I stay in the left-hand lane for most of the commute? Because it’s not that the people in the right-hand lane LIKE to drive slower. It’s just that at each of the numerous interchanges & entrance ramps along the way, there is a lot of slowing down for merging traffic – the “accordian effect”, as traffic engineers call it.
I was always taught to move left to allow merging traffic the best opportunity to merge into the faster-moving traffic safely. I guess I could move left before each intersection, then move right again afterwards, but each movement carries it’s own inherent risks of a collission. It’s safer for everybody involved if a car picks a lane and sticks to it.
Of course, when travelling on I-405 during commute times (I refuse to refer to it as “rush hour” any more), NOBODY is going above the speed limit. I’m going as fast as the car in front of me allows me to go. If I ever get into a position where I can go faster than the speed limit, I promise to move over to the right.
Of course, the most INSANE traffic design I’ve ever seen is the right-hand HOV lanes on 520 east of the bridge. It’s a recipie for disaster: westbound traffic has to enter the highway by crossing an HOV lane of fast-moving traffic and buses, and try to merge into lanes which aren’t moving at all. The HOV traffic (including buses) is weaving around those cars who are waiting for an opportunity to merge, all the while going about 30 MPH faster. Someday there’s going to be a collission with a bus which costs a lot of lives.
I’ve wondered many times what the campers in the passing lane (and I’m referring to those who CAMP OUT and thwart the entire meaning of the lane) think as they pass sign after sign after sign reading “KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS.”
What do they think that means? Morally right? It’s an amazing thing to see, mile after mile. God I can’t wait to see some tickets start flying for this.
It’s stupid to have a car pool lane and two other lanes for everyone else — except if you are specifically passing someone.
If you are going fast enough to pass everyone, then you are in the correct lane: the ‘fast lane’!
@23
Of course, the most INSANE traffic design I’ve ever seen is the right-hand HOV lanes on 520 east of the bridge
I’m so glad I don’t do that commute any more. :)
The HOV lanes should only be HOV lanes during peak traffic hours. Say 6-9AM and 3-6PM. The rest of the time they should be open to anybody. On the other hand, it’d be fine by me if they were eliminated altogether, especially the ones on arterials in the cities, like on 320th in Federal Way.
Steve @ 27: I’m sounding like a broken record, but during the infamous snowtorm a year and a half-ago, at 7:00 PM the HOV lanes became “open” to all traffic.
Now NOBODY was moving, because accidents at the Woodinville interchange had blocked all lanes. So at 7:00 PM suddenly half the people in the left lane simply got into the HOV lane, and clogged that up as well.
Both shoulders were blocked with cars who had stalled (ran out of gas or batter power). So now the HOV lanes were blocked also. Tow trucks couldn’t get through to resolve the blockage. Now EVERYBODY has to wait a lot longer for the mess to get cleaned up. I left Bellevue about 7:00 p.m., and got home at around 5:00 a.m.
For that reason, I think the HOV lanes should remain restricted at all hours. If it’s not “rush hour”, then why do we need the lanes, anyway???? Keep them available for emergency vehicles as well as HOV traffic.
However, once I’m in the right lane, I’m going use my god-given-right to go the speed limit, or maybe a bit under, to get better gas mileage. I don’t care how many of you speed jerks pile up behind me, trying to find a fast hole and dart through traffic. Go pass on the left. You want me to speed up, give me $50.
@28 “then why do we need the lanes, anyway????”
Good question. I’m not big on social engineering. I’d like to see them gone. It’d eliminate my wanting to shoot dead all the HOV cheaters I see.
As a compromise, the rush hour HOV schedule worked quite well in the Bay area as far as I could tell.
@30 “then why do we need the lanes, anyway????”
So because the system broke down in a crisis, it should be scrapped? Because a few are cheating, those that follow the rules have to suffer? ( All or none, a typical republican response, happens to the best of us. )
I love the HOV lane. I commute with my kid or with my van pool, and it works great, as I sail past all the single occupant drivers at a stand still. And when I’m a single driver, I sit in the slog like everyone else.
@32 “I commute with my kid”
You favor social engineering by people hiding in DOT offices who reward your own particular child-bearing behavior. I don’t. Why on earth should we reward you for having a kid?? That’s no better than driving in the HOV lane with a blow-up doll. I paid for those lanes as much as you and yet, as a single person, I can’t ever use them. Get rid of them.
Kids don’t count a person in your HOV lane?
So….. a kid is a person from the moment of conception, UNLESS they are in the carpool lane, and they don’t count, until they are of driving age.
You are just mad that all us legal HOV people are sailing past you, and you cannot or don’t want to try to find someone to commute with you. Bitter.
Why the hell is it so important to have “open” HOV lanes when there isn’t any traffic????
11/12 Mark, the only thing you’re a “producer” of is vacuous rhetoric.
You’ve obviously never driven a Prius, either.
I moved here from Texas 6 years ago. I figured out the “left lane for passing only” rule within a couple of miles of passing the border. How you ask?
Well, maybe it had something to do with all the signs that clearly stated “Left Lane for Passing Only”.
How can someone not figure out that low. The stupid signs are up every couple of miles *rolls eyes*.
Don’t blame it on people being from out of state. Not all of us immigrants are that stupid.
@33 Your kid isn’t a potential single occupant commuter so you relieve no congestion at all. You take advantage of the HOV system – like a Republican would. No, not bitter. I just don’t like the HOV system nor the people who abuse it. You’re one of them.
@34 “Why the hell is it so important to have “open” HOV lanes when there isn’t any traffic????”
So I can drive in it if I want to. I should be free to do so.
So tell me – why not? Why shouldn’t the lane be open off hours? Heck, give me a good reason why it should exist in the first place.
@33 “You are just mad that all us legal HOV people are sailing past you, and you cannot or don’t want to try to find someone to commute with you. Bitter.”
You assume a lot with these two statements and you are dead wrong with both of them.
@9
Us cyclists avoid trucks with side mirrors that extend way the fuck out like the plague. Please push those back in when you’re not towing something.
38 Well then, Steve…why not the sidewalks, too?
What difference does it make? Do you somehow get your rocks off knowing that at 4:30 in the morning, there’s not just two, but three empty lanes for you to drive in?
I don’t personally care what you’re doing in such circumstances, except that if I happen to be out there at the same time, let’s agree that we both stay out of each others’ way, huh? On the other hand, I somehow suspect that some of the advocates of “off-hours open lanes” are also those pushing the “Lexus lane” concept, and that they’d really like to treat either as a “foot-in-the-door” to lobby for making every traffic lane part of the general free-for-all.
Ah, democracy! Let’s all suffer equally, right?
HOV lanes are supposed to reduce peak-hour congestion, and in some cases their effectiveness is open to question. The best case in point is westbound 520, where the chaos caused by the game of chicken–er, I mean the merge before the bridge virtually guarantees a backup all the way to Redmond. There are plenty of other places where it’s nearly as bad, or at best we’re trading safety for the theoretical prospect of better traffic flow, because so many people become drooling idiots when they get into the left front seat of an automobile.
@41 “Do you somehow get your…”
I have no idea where you are going with that one so I’ll let you go there by yourself.
“I somehow suspect that some of the advocates of “off-hours open lanes” are also those pushing the “Lexus lane” concept,”
If you mean “good to go”, no, I do not support that idea myself.
“every traffic lane part of the general free-for-all.”
Are you refering to “good to go”? If not, what are you talking about, freeways with no HOV? I’m for that.
“HOV lanes are supposed to reduce peak-hour congestion”
They don’t appear to do so. That observation comes from commuting enough miles on I-5, I-90, 405, 520 and 16 to go to the moon and back a dozen times. Oh, and nudging my car one car length at a time enough to go around the earth three times.
“so many people become drooling idiots when they get into the left front seat of an automobile”
And that’s not a left or right issue.
“let’s agree that we both stay out of each others’ way, huh?”
Yes, it’s not a bad idea that you do that.
@40 “Us cyclists avoid trucks with side mirrors that extend way the fuck out like the plague. Please push those back in when you’re not towing something.”
How about semi’s on the highway kicking out rocks that can break a windshield? While I get pissed at windshield dings and cracks, I imagine that same rock could have been dangerous, perhaps lethal, for a biker. The semi’s used to have to drive slower and stay in the right lane.
43 It’s probably been a mistake three-quarters of a century in the making that there’s so much long-distance freight hauling with large trucks that could be better carried by rail. Granted, now that there’s a huge industry and a great many jobs built around long-haul trucks, undoing that is going to take a long time and a fair amount of shouting. With the price of diesel what it is, and the advantage trains have of being able to put hundreds of freight cars behind the air resistance of one locomotive, it’s going to change sooner or later.
@43
That’s a good question. I stay off the highways and don’t recall any instances of people getting hit by high-speed rocks. I’ll ask around on that one.
Typical. “I don’t personally use that service, so let’s get rid of it.”
To use the HOV lane, there is a trade off of convenience. To get a car pool or van pool, or bus, I have to find X number people, who are going to the same place at the same time and put up with them. All you single drivers, have complete freedom, but you have do it, outside of the HOV lane.
You get rid of the HOV lanes and then you just have ONE more lane, not moving. How does that help anyone?
I don’t like scheme to “Pay” for the use of the HOV lane. You should not be allowed to circumvent traffic just because you are rich. Suffer along with the other rabble. ( Or hire a driver, and use the HOV lane. Generate a job! )
@47 Sigh! Look, a father driving his kid to school does not eliminate traffic congestion. Try letting the kid walk or take a bus and then I’ll be impressed with your concern for traffic and ecology. Furthermore, a couple, living and commuting together and driving in the HOV lanes, does not lessen traffic congestion. And yet you seem to believe that these two groups are deserving of privilege. I guess I missed the part where they became special. So tell me about it. Why do they deserve to drive in HOV lanes?
@47 “You should not be allowed to circumvent traffic just because you are rich.”
But if you’re a Dad driving his kid to school, or a suburban couple commuting together, they’re somehow special.
“Generate a job!” In my work, I do just that. But for you to resort to that kind of remark suggests to me that you lack substantiation for your HOV notions.
@46,47.
Should school buses be allowed to use the HOV lanes in your universe?
You sound like a clone of Dory when he rails against HOV lanes. Sorry, shouldn’t have said “rails”, Dory is against them too.
In a perfect police state world, monitored by strict unyielding computers, only people with valid driver’s licenses, that have working cars, that are not using them, would be allowed in the Car Pool lanes. Everyone else would be prohibited from using it and anyone else who crossed over for any reason, for any distance what so ever, would have their car impounded and have their body parts confiscated for organ transplant.
In the reality based world, the cops can count heads and tell if there are two+ people in a vehicle. That’s why “they” deserve to drive in the HOV lanes.
How would you address that if you get rid of the HOV lanes and then you just have ONE more lane, not moving. How does that help anyone?
@48 Look here, I’m not going to reply in kind, or escalate and suggest that you’re something evil or stupid. I’ll tell you what, let’s have them count three heads, limit the hours to commuting times and call it a compromise.
Without compromise, I’ll fall back on eliminating HOV lanes, head counting, privilege, and all that. Maybe leave the lanes for buses and emergency vehicles only.
Oh, and in case you haven’t been around these parts long, freeways were congested before HOV lanes came to be, they’re many more times congested now. It’s hard to see where the zillions spent on HOV lanes have done any good whatsoever.
@47 I just noticed how you slice hairs…
You don’t seem to have a vocal problem with buses, carpools of unrelated people, or vanpools, but let a mom and kids in a Minivan sail past, and “By God, that just wrong! We should dismantle the whole system”
@48 You mention Dory, who I assume is that radio guy, Monson. I’ve never listened to him that I’m aware of. I have no idea what his views are. I don’t even know what station he is on. My station is usually tuned to KIXI or KJR. I will say, however, that if he is against HOV lanes, then I’m with him on that one issue.
Again, it seems that because you don’t personally benefit from the carpool lanes, you don’t like them.
I’ve been here for 25 years, I’ve experienced the freeways clot up earlier and earlier, for longer and longer.
How do I say this, in a way that you will understand? Even if we got rid of the HOV lanes, during peak traffic, it would just be one more lane, that would NOT be moving. At least this way, people who give up convenience, can get through.
With higher and higher gas prices, less and less people can afford to drive, leaving the freeways more open for those who still can afford gas.
Get that price high enough, and traffic will drop off enough that HOV lanes won’t matter. Steve, I hope you are one of the ultra rich ones who will still be able to afford to drive, so you can be happy.
@50 “I just noticed how you slice hairs…”
If being specific is “slicing hairs” to you, then, well, whatever. I suspect that you’re being somewhat situational here.
“You don’t seem to have a vocal problem with buses, carpools of unrelated people, or vanpools”
No problem really. Include emergency vehicles and you’re really close.
“but let a mom and kids in a Minivan sail past, and “By God, that just wrong! We should dismantle the whole system””
No, here you resort to putting words into my mouth as a form of debate. KInd of troll-like. You also fail to answer my basic question. The Mom and kids fails to reduce taffic congestion. If we have the technology where we can charge for HOV “good to go”, then we can use that same technology separate true car poolers, people who actually reduce traffic congestion, from those who don’t. And I’d include the Mom and kids in the later.
@53 As if any of us knows what the future holds. It could well be a future still dominated by single occupancy vehicles, albiet, green as can possibly be, but with twice the population around that we have now.
Having that mom in the HOV lane is reducing congestion a bit. That mom in the Minivan is not weaving in front of you anymore.
I incorporated your requirements to separate true car poolers, in my police state scenario, but you didn’t seem to like it.
Then, it’s your mission, to pitch your family HOV exclusion to the legislature, and if it’s a good idea, then they will change the laws. Or contact Eyeman, he needs another good ballot initiative.
@56 “Having that mom in the HOV lane is reducing congestion a bit.”
In a funny sense, you agree – eliminating HOV lanes would reduce congestion a bit.
Regarding a “police state”, are you one of those who wanted the “Rat on a Lane Violator” program? Is that still around? They had those signs on the freeway with a number to call to rat on somebody. Perhaps your idea of an acceptable police state is simply a little different from what you assume mine to be.
@56 “your family HOV exclusion”
I never said “family”. But maybe that’s not a bad idea. You’re on a slippery slope, as well as seeming to advocate social engineering by the few for the good of the select few. I advocate for my freedom, as well as yours, to use the lanes built with our tax dollars. You wish to deny me that freedom and yet you would give it to others, people somehow more favorable in your eyes, who do no more to relieve congestion by being in those lanes than I would. Your arguments for reducing any freedom should be strong and unassailable. Yours are weak.
Ayup. You got me there!
Then, off topic, you are strongly against the warrentless wiretapping done by the Bush Administration?
Then, you are strongly against tolls also, like I am?
What percentage of HOV drivers are families? This is such a common conservative theme. “Some one, somewhere is taking advantage of the system, so lets dump the whole system. That small fraction is the reason it all has to go.”
hey, another off topic snark. “Some is taking advantage of the Iraq war and making money they don’t deserve, let’s pull out so they cannot do that any more!”
I’m done for the day.
@60 Absolutely! Prosecute those damned telcoms and those who authorized the wiretapping.
@61 “Then, you are strongly against tolls also, like I am?” Agreed. What’s next? Tolls for being on the road at all? Tolls for walking down the sidewalk? Tolls for walking through a park? Chip implants are already here. Is that what we’ll do with that technology? God, I hope not.
“What percentage of HOV drivers are families?” Not that many. It’s the principle of the matter. As a former I-5 commuter who watch cars “whizz by”, as I think you said, I saw too many single occupancy cars cheating (hmm, they looked like Republicans to me), and many of what looked to be couples, although, of course I don’t know that. To tell the truth, that seemed to constitute the majority of lanes users – one reason the concept bothers me.
“hey, another off topic snark.” I don’t quite follow you here. I believe that not all war is necessarily wrong. But I’ll say that the wars that America has fought during my lifetime, Korea, ‘Nam, Iraq 1, Iraq 2, “Terror”, appear to me to have been little more than geopolitical bullshit – resulting in wasted lives and resources.
Now, wait a minute here…
If you postulate that a parent taking a kid to school or a family in a van on their way to a ski trip or two older ladies on their way to a shopping center aren’t “really relieving congestion”, why stop there? Let’s set up an arbitration board of some sort to decide if your job is more important than mine, or vice versa, and give each and every one of us a priority number to get on the freeway in the first place. In a way the “HOT lanes” do that by the presumption that what Ralph the Rich Guy is on his way to something so highly important that he’s willing to pay a special tribute to Ceasar to use the restricted lane, while Jerry the Janitor’s gig mustn’t be all that big a deal because he’s not (willing or able). Sounds like a really nice way to push us down the slimy slope into institutionalized class-ism that the right seems so intent on doing anyway.
@64 Eliminate the HOV lanes and the “slippery slope” that concerns both of us will go away. The “kids to school” or “family in a van” is what started us on that slope.
I bet we get there sooner than you think. Then we can really implement the pay as you go society. Want to enjoy the park? Pay for it. Want to pay extra to walk ON the grass, and not on the sidewalk? that will be deducted from your account.
Another thing, by your logic, those who don’t own a car, should not be allowed in the HOV lane. Some percentage of the bus riders would be force into the general purpose lane. They have to go buy a car and park it, to be able to use the HOV lane.
@66 It was a thought I had earlier today. Chip implants. A monthly bill or account deduction. Use a road – you pay. Use a library – you pay. Go to a park – you pay. Walk on a sidewalk – you pay. Use a drinking fountain – you pay. No more “commons”. For nearly every aspect of a person’s participation in society there would be a price to pay. A nightmarish scenario, to my way of thinking.
I prefer the commons approach. We possibly have that in common, you and I. I’ll help pay for a library even though I don’t use it. I’ll help pay for a bridge in Yakima even though I won’t use it. Now, if I could only get you folks to feel that way about Key Arena.
@67 I don’t quite follow you. If the HOV lanes were turned into, say, mass transit and emergency vehicle lanes, then the bus rider sees no change. If HOV were eliminated altogether, then buses and emergency vehicles would be in lanes with other vehicles. So maybe I should reconsider and allow HOV to remain for mass transit and emergency vehicles, but still eliminate passenger vehicles from HOV. What’d be wrong with that? No more slippery slope.
Let me see if I can follow the logic….
Because some drivers (like families) use the HOV lanes but are not reducing congestion, you feel that is somehow cheating or gaming the system, and you would change the rules so only mass transit and emergency vehicles can use the HOV lanes.
Riiiight.
I’d support the Key Arena if it didn’t feel like extortion. And after the last two stadiums were pushed through against the voter’s will, we have had enough.
“Give us more money and we will give you a good team.”
“Give us a good team and we will give you more money.”
(Repeat until dizzy)
@70 No, you don’t follow the logic. How about you pointing to something, say, a study, that substantiates any improvement whatever to traffic congestion or flow due to allowing passenger vehicles in HOV lanes.
Yes, it does piss me off to see cheaters, but that is not the real issue. However, based on my observations over decades of cummuting, nearly half of the passenger cars I see in the HOV are single occupancy cheaters, and apparently some of the rest are couples or families with kids or something. I tell you that, based on my commuting experience, traffic has deteriorated day by day, year by year until it is no longer tolerable in the I-5 corridor. By my experience I have come to believe that HOV passenger car usage has made no difference whatsoever. Further, it’s paving the way for more government BS like “good to go” for the rich. And while traffic deteriorates, I’ve seen endless HOV projects over the years and only one project, the new Narrows bridge, that did anything at all to address one of the numerous bottlenecks we have.
By the by, I have shown a willingness to dispatch with any derisive comments, as well as a willingness to reconsider my position. Your mistatement on what I’m getting at and your “Riiiight” comment gives me pause.
A further by the by, I no longer commute to Seattle, I live in Union and commute to Bremerton. My concern about the I-5 corridor is now about what other people have to go through and concern about what might be good for improving transportation in this region.
@71 “I’d support the Key Arena if it didn’t feel like extortion.”
Feelings aside, I’d support passenger vehicles in the HOV lanes if it actually improved traffic congestion and flow.
How well is the HOV system working?
HOV lanes move over one-third of the people on rush hour freeways in only about 19% of the vehicles. The average HOV lane is carrying more than 1½ times as many people as the average “regular” lane during the peak commuting periods, and is saving users time on each freeway. These averages are based on peak commuting periods and directions.
Puget Sound enjoys one of the lowest HOV lane violation rates in the nation. In fact, HOV lanes are so popular that they are getting crowded. Most of our HOV lanes are congested during rush hours and no longer maintain the 45 mph performance standard we have adopted for HOV lanes. Conversely, a few HOV corridors show growing volumes but still have space available. WSDOT is working to address both of these issues.
@74 I had hoped for better from you.
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/resear...../584.2.pdf