After confirming 20 cases of the Mexican swine flu in five states, and four more cases in Canada, U.S. health officials declared a national public health emergency today in order to intensify resources toward diagnosis and prevention, and to release funds to purchase and distribute supplies of anti-viral drugs.
So far there have been no known deaths attributed to this new strain of swine flu outside of Mexico, and only one US victim has thus far required hospitalization. Still…
Officials said they expect more severe cases as reports of infection multiply.
“You don’t know how much it’s spread, but you’ve got to at least make the assumption that there’s a lot more virus in this country than is seen at the moment,” Jeffrey Koplan, the C.D.C. director from 1998 to 2002, said in a telephone interview.
As always, DemFromCT is following the issue closely on Daily Kos.
Conservatives, of course, don’t believe government should do beneficial things for its citizens, or take money from individuals to spend on the common good. Their solution to a pandemic would be to surround the afflicted with military forces to keep them from spreading germs, and let the free market decide who gets treatment and who doesn’t. Perhaps they even believe pandemics serve a useful function by killing off the poor so that only the deserving rich will remain to enjoy the bounty of this planet.
Be interesting to see what if any impact this swine flu issue has on the desire of some to increase urban density afterall some will argue that increased density will help diseases spread.
@3 The short answer to your wonderment is that density in Mexico City isn’t qualitatively the same thing as density in Seattle.
Yes we should just forget about alerting the public or providing any sort of care for this flu to the poor. After all, the rich, white Publicans think they are immune to any illness – and they hate “government run” health care. So, no warnings, no interventions, no help from the government at all – that’s the way the Publicans want it. What will happen when their kids start dying, or are they just such assholes that they really do think they are immune?
So what do the liberals believe? We should all surrender our assets to government because it knows best what’s good for us? We should just trust government at all times?
Should:
1. Government provide our housing, food and clothing and transportation?
2. Provide education for all?
3. Provide health care for all?
4. Come and mow our lawns for us?
5. Come and wipe our asses for us?
6. Change the oil in our cars and rotate the tires every 3,000 miles?
7. Cook and clean for us, keep track of the bills?
Hey Rabbitt it isn’t what reality is, it is what people think. I am well aware of the difference in density in the two cities. How will this impact people in New York?
@6 A conservative is someone who thinks Stefan Sharansky is a victim of government, and the people our government tortured aren’t.
“Swine flu could be stopped dead in its tracks if we cut capital gains taxes to zero.”
-motion submitted by the House Republicon caucus.
Whatever gets your rocks of, fuckwads.
@2…”afterall some will argue that increased density will help diseases spread.”
I really don’t give a fuck what “some” say. Either you are (a.) doing a Katie Couric impersonation, (b.) you believe this, or (c.) you are an idiot. Please pick one.
If you pick “b”, we can have a conversation.
“…..it isn’t what reality is, it is what people think.”
Heavy, man. Don’t bogart that joint. Perhaps you could expand on this deep philosophical insight. I’ll have a few more glasses of wine while I wait.
@5: If we decide to do these things as a society, we can. I’m not sayin’ it would be, “good”, “ideal” or “optimal”, but we can. Other than that, what’s your point?
Oh, that’s right. You don’t have one.
@5:
1) Government already does in the form of loans, the FDIC, building and maintaining roads and the USDA, which is supposed to make sure our food is safe. If you own a car or have ever bought groceries than please STFU.
2) yes — that would be great for our future economic health
3) yes — that would be great for our future economic health
4) no
5) I can do this on my own, thanks
6) no
7) no
I would add that government should not be able to tell us who we can legally marry, have sex with or what sex toys we use. Government should also not tell individuals what substances they can put in their own bodies.
so we have an emergency on our hand and what does Obama do today: He goes golfing.
I’m just saying
@6
I’ve been wondering the same thing, culture too. I know in Tokyo it’s common for people with colds to wear face masks and for kids to have their temps checked (daily) before being let into daycare.
So where are the resident dick suckers CYNCYN, Puffybutt, RickyD, Marv the Pervert, Troll? Come on bitches tell us how we don’t need no stinking government health care!
Oh, the solution’s simple. Just let the free market take care of it. Oh and of course a tax cut is a cure for just about anything. And when in doubt the U.S. military can pitch in and lead the effort – tax cutting and free marketing I mean, but a new war in Iran and Syria would help a lot too.
Ooops gotta go. I need my hourly mind meld with Rush…
Well…I guess NObama will take some advise from G W Bush….”use hand sanatizer after you shake hands with people”……NOBAMA laughed and insulted G W BUSH for those words….now who is laughing. NOBAMA …close our borders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dickhead@8:
Source? Or was that pulled from stillbentover’s ASS?
Nothing like biowar terroism to get the libbies started on free health care.
LOL the right wing cowards don’t have the courage of their convictions and have run from this thread like the cum-drunk whores they are.
@19
Nothing like a case of the flu to get the wing-nuts seeing black helicopters.
It’s the alternate universe inhabited by the right wing America – haters. In this universe, FlipFlop McSame is President.
There is no CDC because the looonies on the right pressured the old fuck to do away with it. We don’t need no stinkin’ disease control was the edict from boss Lush Flimbaugh so away it went.
There is no stockpile of Tamiflu because the right wing turds don’t think the government has any business being involved in our health care. This was what Karl Rove wanted and McSame doesn’t have the balls to stand up to him so they sold it to cover their precious deficit reduction act.
In poor neighborhoods across the country where Blackwater shut down the free clinics, (Cheney had them assigned to replace the US Marshals) people have no access to medical care.
The right wing Faux News was assigned the post of “Information Ministry.” Fearing competition might destroy their profits, they shut down all communications except over their network so there’s no way to communicate a national emergency to the public.
When the flu landed on our shores (a German citizen visiting the White House for a meeting on how to revitalize the KKK in the US) infected two airport workers. These minimum wage workers had no information about the flu. When they got sick, they had no access to health care. From these two, the flu spread across the country killing millions in less than three weeks.
Puffybutt got the call at 9:00 pm. His son was pronounced dead – there was nobody available to help him. The government saved millions in avoiding any money for health care – and millions of its citizens died. At least one of them was Puffybutt’s son!
Quit whining, use some of your money, and go get a tamiflu shot, nervous nellie, chicken shit!
Good thing we have such a secure border (rolls eyes)…
I would like to issue a big “thank you” to the Democrats and Republicans that have sold us out and who have failed to give us a secure border.
@24
The swine-flu got to NYC on a jet plane. The carriers we’re upper-class white kids.
and the rest of the places?
add this to the list of diseases making their way across our unsecured border….TB anybody? this is only the begining……..
CDC Chief: “We’re Going To See More Severe Disease In This Country.”
This strain of virus is more potent and more deadly than the virus that hammered the world in 1918 and 1919. Viruses come in waves. There are striking similarities to this virus and the virus that killed up to 100 million people in 1918. The first wave is historically more mild than the later waves.
In addition to this virus becoming more severe, it is mutating faster than previous virus that we have seen. In addition, this virus is nothing like we have ever seen before because it combines features from viruses natural in different parts of the globe. We are in uncharted territory.
If it follows the same path as the 1918 flu, we will see very damaging results. However, we must remember we are a global society now and the virus can spread quicker than we have ever witnessed in history. This is very concerning especially since the drugs we have now seem resistant.
While there have been no deaths in America, it is shadowed by the fact the common variable among the deaths seem to be age. While most American cases have involved the very young and very old (under 10 and over 50) the Mexican cases that ended fatally involved the robust and healthy (over 20 and under 45).
This virus kills the host by over-stimulating the immune system. The term that is used when the immune system over reacts is called a Cytokine Storm. It is usually fatal. During this “Storm” over 150 inflammatory mediators are released. This would account for the high mortality rate in 1918-19.
See history and projections here:
Swine Flu – http://www.butasforme.com/2009.....influenza/
That’s racist, how do you know they were not upper class little black kids? Do you think that little black kids can’t afford to go to a private school,or trip to mexico, maybe it was a combination of upper class kids of different races?
You have an issue with white people don’t you?
Get over it!
15. ByeByeGOP spews:
So where are the resident dick suckers CYNCYN, Puffybutt, RickyD, Marv the Pervert, Troll? Come on bitches tell us how we don’t need no stinking government health care!
Strawman anyone?…..anyone?… Bueller?….
only a fool would make the leap from the universal health care debate to the CDC and pandemics…nice(not really) try….
Grade = C-
@26
I’m betting it didn’t get to New Zealand by swimming… TB’s here no need to import it, our lack of universal health care makes it worse.
I’m all for putting up guard towers along the Mexican border to stop people from trying sneaking in, but guard towers wont stop the swine flu.
@29
We think BB suffered a TBI as a child…
29. Michael spews:
@26
I’m betting it didn’t get to New Zealand by swimming… TB’s here no need to import it, our lack of universal health care makes it worse.
I’m all for putting up guard towers along the Mexican border to stop people from trying sneaking in, but guard towers wont stop the swine flu.
I understand what you are saying about the ability of diseases to spread – a secure border sure wont stop everything, but it sure as hell would help.
As far as TB is concerned: we didnt have universal health care for the decades that TB was non-existent in this country. The return of TB can be directly linked to immigration – both legal and illegal.
The democrats are gearing up to do just what the republicans did after 911: Use an “emergency” to push their agenda. In this case, its universal health care. A blind man can see that strategy – it is plain as day.
Once again, our politicians are getting ready to fuck us. Hold on to your wallets…and your freedom.
I wonder if the swine flu makes it to canada will thier health care system be the answer to the problem? I don’t believe it has been the answer to the aids problem or the TB problem in canada and won’t be the answer here either.
Medi-care,Medi-cade, and Indegent care programs are in place all over this country.
The deseases are still here because we have no control of our borders, period.
@32
It’s already in Canada.
I’m betting a combination of modern information technology and good old fashioned quarantines stop the spread of this.
The subtext has been there on all the so called news stations all weekend. They want to close the borders.
Yes CYNCYN you’re right – the so-called “news” station – i.e., Faux News or “GOP News” as we call it, is indeed preparing million dollar graphics and special music to drum up anti-immigrant sentiment among the inbred righties. They’ll have you and your ilk standing on the border ready to shoot any Mexican you see on sight no doubt. Never waste a good tragedy when you can use it to make political hey.
The good news is that the rich, Catholic high school hit in New York is full of “conservative” Catholics. We can only hope the flu does its job and reduces the number of righties in our midst.
35. ByeByeGOP spews:
Never waste a good tragedy when you can use it to make political hey.
Seems as though the Obama administration is doing that very thing. Guess you didnt notice that, did you.
@37 no I simply don’t believe you – then since you’re a rightie – I’ll never believe u. If we really want to talk about taking advantage of a crisis, let’s talk about the Bush Regime taking advantage of 9-11 to bomb Iraq. Now THERE was an exercise in taking advantage. Nobody can name one single person on the planet who gained more from 9-11 than Bush.
Back to the flu – I love how the right wing turds want to make sure to turn the convo away from the simple fact that if there is no government involvement in health care – shit like this will eventually kill us all. Now mind you, I don’t care about the GOP traitors getting sick and kicking the bucket. In fact, I hope for that. But the rest of us don’t deserve to die because you assholes would rather fund war than healthcare for little kids.
2. Libertarian Guy spews:
Interesting thing to consider.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out…if Urban Areas are substantially more impacted.
@32: Watchfool on the wagon says:
Care to say anything else stupid? You don’t believe….yup, that is all you have is your stupid beliefs, you sure don’t have any actual facts.
When rightwing trolls say what they think, it is very instructive to actually analyze the false suppositions they make.
When the starting “facts and suppositions” are so blatantly wrong and false, it is no wonder that the rightwing know-nothings come to false conclusions.
How can it be both a “Public Health Emergency,” and yet there is “no cause for alarm?” (Obama’s words)
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH.....index.html
What’s funny is everyone who has just the regular flu, and not the swine flu, will be freaking out, thinking they are about to die, until their lab test comes back.
Sigghhhh …………
The true MIRACLE here may be our ability to soubnd the alarm BEFORE a pandemic occurs.
The problem for the radically religious right is that this MIRACLE depends on our understanding of evolution. Do they want to trust in the Deity instead of in science?
The problem for luddite left may be just as real. The implications of this event are that a modern health care system is going to require giving up certain civil rights. If the epidemic really gets going, we will need to give up our right to free trial or to choose whether or not to accept vaccination. Even more important, in the long run, I expect President Obama to announce that he and Michelle are going to have their genomes done and made public. Are liberals ready to sign on to public genomes and pnational identity cards?
Given That One (Obama)’s sense of using crisis to make progress, this may be a good time to breach the subject of national IDs.
If we need to control travel , the best way to accomplish this is to nationalize our identities.
The fiction on the left is that this has not already happened. It has, thanks to credit cards and metadatabases. The recent hunt for the Boston University Med student/murder suspect was built on databases that chased his cell phones and credit cards.
Of course there is also the immigartion problem. National ID cards would solve that almost overnight by making it illegal to employ anyone w/o checking their ID.
EVOLUTION
For the radical religious and the nature is nice crowds, the swine flu OUGHT to be a warning.
Nature is NOT nice. All evolution works this way. This virus has evolved to procreate itself and may fail if we find the way to kill it (unlikely) or contain it. It may also fail, in the longer run, if it kills all its hosts!
Guess what Luddites? Because WE understand evolution, WE get to choose!
@43: Why would we have to give up our right to a trial by our peers (not a “free trial”), just because of a possible flu epidemic?
Also, we won’t have to choose whether to accept vaccination for two reasons:
One, if the vaccine is effective then those who “Choose” not to be vaccinated are taking their own risks (besides, there will probably not be enough doses for everyone, anyways).
Also, if this is a new strain then there ARE NO vaccines available and the flu medications that are available are not particularly effective (Tamiflu barely shortens the duration of the regular flu).
Umm, the genomes stuff is just plain silly. why would anyone want their entire genome published? Anyway, it would be a waste of money since most of the genome is interons anyways.
I do agree that this is a potential public health emergency and that extreme vigilance must be done now, before we know the extent of the outbreak and the possible morbidity and mortality of this strain of flu.
In 1918, the flu killed more people than WWI. It killed healthy young people with strong immune systems – unlike most of the flu strains since. It may be that these people generated too much cell mediated immunity that led to the complications (too much inflammation) of the flu. What is needed is something that can enhance cell mediated immunity yet suppress too much inflammation, at the same time.
i sure hope all the doods at usaig and bank of americans are ok.
@ 40 you can stick those stats where the sun don’t shine, because they are worthless numbers to those that are still dying in canada. I guess i was right stupid universal healthcare is not the answer.
@48: I wouldn’t expect you to understand numbers bigger than 10 and facts that contradict the BS you write.
Is your brain on vacation or are you always this stupid?
And PS:
I can kick the crap out of you too – so don’t even go there wimp.
You are weak in body and mind.
And one more thing there are programs in this country to take care of childrens medical needs, if in fact that is your concern, or for that fact the needs of all americans if they cannot afford it.At this time in our free country no one can be turned away if they need medical assistance, money or no money insurance or no insurance. There are free medical clinics in place all over this country. So shut up and go get free medical if you can’t afford to pay.
Incorrect even if not right
@ 46
I don’t think I said any thing about this.
You are a little but correct but mostly wrong. We do yet have a vaccine. However, we will. BUT the real issue is not when we have one but what strategy do we take to prevent a similar virus from killing us all?
The universal vaccination strategies for polio and small pox worked. Leaving some people free to choose NOT to he vaccinated is the same as allowing them to choose TO be hosts. As long as any virus has a host, it can evolve.
1. You mean introns. Actually most of the genome is not in introns or exons but in large regions that are only now becoming understood. Studies of cancer, for example, show that a lot of the information comes from regions that do not code for any “gene.” Moreover, most of the function of the genome, including viral insertion sites, now appears to be in noncoding (that is non protein making) sequence.
2. There are two major reasons for making genomes public. The first is that we will at the very least need a large number of genomes to understand how less frequent variations at common sites determine disease. A recent series in the New England Journal points out that the current “SNP” approach is based on far too few folks to serve this need.
The second is that it seems very clear that a large part of all diseases is determined by our genetic diversity. Since we clearly are going to state run medicine, why should everyone have to pay more so docs can guess how to treat the Luddites?
I assume you are aware that the costs of genomes are plummeting? A fairly dense genotype (say a few million markers) can be had for a few hundred dollars now and entire genomes will fall below 1000 in the near future.
Finally there is the supposed issue of privacy. I am FAR more worried about the effin insurance companies having access to my medical records (which they now do have despite HIPPA). As long as reasonable efforts are made to protect sensitive information on ethnicity, and as long as the right to health care is assured, how is anyone hurt if we all have our genomes available?
Let me point out that your genome is ALREADY PUBLIC. Unless you coat yourself in plastic, do not breathe or shit, for a small sum we can sequence you now. You leave your identity card around every time you pee. Even if we all had our genomes done, the major issue wold be how that data are used and kept confidential ..no different from your credit card records!
I do agree that this is a potential public
First the issue is NOT just cell mediated immunity. The innate immune response and humoral immunity are involved as well as issue like your underlying fitness.
Second, your bet on this sounds very much like the bets most pharmas make. A pill to relieve flu symptoms while allowing the disease to recur will make a lot more money than a tool that wipes it out.
Third, my own guess is that viruses are so embedded in our biology that we can not wipe them out. The line between a virus and a functional piece of nucleotide is pretty vague, there may ven e functional viruses .. that is sequences that WORK by moving from cell to cell or even host to host. Are you familiar with the field of co-evolution?
It looks like my wife and I are cancelling our trip to Mexico we had planned for May 9. She’s from Aguascalientes and they just shut down their annual street fair that goes on every year at this time. People are wearing surgical masks there right now, and if I have to put on a mask when I get off the plane, that’s my cue to not go.
Hey KLOWNS, it dawned on me that Washington State Government has been infected with the “swine flu’ the past 4 years. Perhaps the “sow” in charge could have avoided the plague of illness caused by too many guv’mint employees at the trough!
OINK! OINK! OINK! OINK!OINK! OINK!OINK! OINK!OINK! OINK!OINK! OINK!OINK! OINK!OINK! OINK!OINK! OINK!OINK! OINK!OINK! OINK!OINK! OINK!
As with everyting in life it is best to be prepared. Here is a link to the CDC for information on the Swine Flu. http://pfx.me/NR
Here’s an interesting little tid bit from the NY Post…
NY Senator Chuck Schumer (guess which party) was quoted as approving of the removal of funds for pandemic flu issues.
“All those little porky things that the House put in, the money for the [National] Mall or the sexually transmitted diseases or the flu pandemic, they’re all out,” Schumer said.
Is he a swine or what?
The Piper
Fact: The regular flu (not the swine flu) kills 36,000 people every year.
@56 Piper Scott
The sad truth is that the WORST things often happen when well meaning Libruls and well meaning Repricans find common cause.
About 30 yrs ago, libruls were incensed that confinement to state hospitals for the insane vilated civil rights. Repricans saw the hospitals as a waste of money.
The result … STREET PEOPLE!
Tell you what, I wish we could have a third party as devoted to rationalism as the Radical Repubs are to religion. A lot of what Presdienbt OBama is doing strikes me as Rationalist .. not librul and not repug.
Examples:
1. Cuba
2. Stem Cells
3. Iran
4. Torture
5. Health care.
I have and will vote independently of party but the Repugs better join the rationalists if they want my vore.
#57 Troll
So?
No one is worried about the normal loss of life due to flu, what is VERY scary is that our emphasis on the free market is ill fit to plan for catastrophes.
Do you really think private industry is willing to invest in preventing a pandemic that is unlikely to occur during the tneure of the current crop of CEOs or attention span in investors?
Funny thing, the right wants the Bush Regime to get credit for the lack of a 9/11 repeat. Actually I think the right DOES have a point … BUT … the same issues of non-market driven preparedness are needed if we are to avert a pandemic or educate the US childrne to compete in this Brave New World.
Join the Rational Democratic Movement!
38. ByeByeGOP spews:
@37 no I simply don’t believe you – then since you’re a rightie – I’ll never believe u. If we really want to talk about taking advantage of a crisis, let’s talk about the Bush Regime taking advantage of 9-11 to bomb Iraq. Now THERE was an exercise in taking advantage. Nobody can name one single person on the planet who gained more from 9-11 than Bush.
Back to the flu – I love how the right wing turds want to make sure to turn the convo away from the simple fact that if there is no government involvement in health care – shit like this will eventually kill us all. Now mind you, I don’t care about the GOP traitors getting sick and kicking the bucket. In fact, I hope for that. But the rest of us don’t deserve to die because you assholes would rather fund war than healthcare for little kids.
you dont read too well, do you….
The 1919 Pandemic had an interesting casualty we might see repeating in Mexico City, right now. I saw a news story of a soccer game in Azteca Stadium, the stadium empty because of the epidemic. The stadium normally seats over 100,000 people.(Good thing they closed the stadium to fans). In 1919, the Stanley Cup was caneled because of the flu. Both the Montreal Canadiens and the Seattle Metropolitans had players get sick, but the Canadiens fell short of the number of players required to continue, and forfeited. The coach of the Metropolitans was a good sport(or a bad sport depending on how one sees it), and refused the forfeit. This is about the only time the Stanley Cup was never awarded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1....._Is_Off.22
42 “What’s funny is everyone who has just the regular flu, and not the swine flu, will be freaking out, thinking they are about to die, until their lab test comes back.”
Yeah, that’s really fucking hilarious.
@52 SJ
Here is your exact quote:
I don’t get what you mean – but you did write it.
Introns, by definition, are the non-coding regions of the DNA.
We fight off viruses primarily by cell mediated immunity. Humeral immunity is essentially useless for viral infections except for preventing infection, since the ability to kill virally-infected cells with antibodies is small and will lead to the release of more virus, in most cases. Cell mediated immunity induces apoptosis and prevents further viral spread.
SJ said:
We don’t have a vaccine and if this is a new strain it will take at least 3-6 months to produce new HA and NA antigens to match the new strain and to get this into production and to produce enough antigen for a vaccine (that may be effective if there isn’t too much genetic shift) – by then, with a truly virulent virus we could all be dead.
So, NO we don’t have a vaccine and we may not get one that works soon enough. If you are counting on a vaccine soon – good luck.
SJ says:
umm, I was not talking about relieving flu symptoms. Instead, I was talking about boosting cell mediated immunity (to actually fight off the flu) and reducing the cytokine rush that may cause the massive inflammation that killed healthy young people in 1918.
There is a pretty good book on this (the 1918 flu epidemic) that I read a while ago….can’t remember the name of it.
Here is what Chucky Schumer (DEMOCRAT-NY) said:
“All those little porky things that the House put in, the money for the [National] Mall or the sexually transmitted diseases or the flu pandemic, they’re all out,” Schumer said.
Hey SJ, aren’t you a little ticked at YOUR boy Schumer. He’s not a right-winger and BTW HE HAS POWER!!
Grow up SJ. Your anti-Christian hot rhetoric is way too often hollow.
Blame your boy Schumer.
52/63/64 No doubt the prospect of the use of a lot of Tamiflu’s put a big feces-munching grin on Donald Rumsfeld’s mug, although the current stream of questionably credible anecdotes gives some question as to its effectiveness against this particular strain.
I can’t help but wonder regarding palliative treatment: If there are treatments that might make a sufferer feel better while still contagious, might it lead said person to get up off his or her bed of pain and sally forth to infect others?
@55 and all CDC Recommendations
If people have no paid sick time off, they’re not going to abide by the CDC recommendation to take time off. It’s an unstable economic time as it is. We need to demand paid sick days now.
There’s a great petition on this here:
http://momsrisingaction.org/pe.....n_KEY=1924
65 Cyn, I’d also wonder a bit about how Ron Sims’ pouring of resources into “pandemic preparedness” in King County jibes with the simultaneous laying off of most of the nurses from the Health Department.
It’s all the GOP’s fault!
I’m surprised that Mr. Klynical hasn’t pointed out that, per his favorite measure of all things Obama, the Rasmussen Polls Presidential Approval Index, President Obama’s approval rating is soaring. Last week it was at +2, it’s now at +5!
-heh
64. correctnotright spews:
Sorry I missed a typo. Wha I meant to say is that we will give up a number of rights just as in any instance of martial law. Try exercis9ing your free speech when the Great Seattle Earthquake hits!
No, an intron is a noncoding sequence inserted within the code for a protein. There are huge noncoding dequences elsewhere in the genome. You need an update in your genetics
This is a gross oversimplification and suggests that you also need an update on current knowledge of apoptosis .. probably not very interesting to folks here. What si mroe relevant to others is that clinical effects of viral infection rarely depend on the virus’ own activities. For example type 1 diabetes results from a viral event that creates an autoimmune response. Other viral infections elicit TH2 responses that have nothing to do with cytocidal acquired immunity but do result in horrible effects foprm excess fibrotic responses, etc,
This is why approaches to viral disease use vaccination so the event does not occur in the first place. The immune response induced by the vaccine may, as you say, be mediated by T cells but it may also be an antibody response.
We don’t have a vaccine and if this is a new strain it will take at least 3-6 months to produce new HA and NA antigens to match the new strain and to get this into production and to produce enough antigen for a vaccine (that may be effective if there isn’t too much genetic shift) – by then, with a truly virulent virus we could all be dead.
True enough, BUT .. as i noted above, vaccines are only useful in preventing infection, We are ALL infected with numeorus viruses, adaptation .. mutal adaptation .. occurs in many ways. Look at the miracles we now have with HIV!
The important point here is that we NEED to spend real money in virology. One reason is to develop better preventative vaccines, but that is only a part of the picture.
@ 67. ArtFart
This is a real concern. Alleviating viral; infections may make the virus a better citizen, more able to survive in OUR environment.
Seattle Jew:
Obviously, you know very little about immunology.
First, you make the mistake of conflating protective immunity (humoral) and the ability to fight off an infection (cell mediated).
They are not the same thing.
Humoral immunity is effective in preventing infection but not effective for fighting off an infection.
While it is true that humoral immunity is induced by viral infections, it comes on late, particpates very little in killing the virus and serves ot give protective immunity later.
One of the problems with our current set of tools for vrial epidemics is thatour tools chest is not very full. We have very few ways to enhance cell mediated immunity or prevent the shut-offof the immune system by pathogens. The cytokine storm thought to be induced in even healthy young people by the flu virus of 1918 may be sufficient to kill. So the ability to mantain a cell mediated response while supressing inflammation is the key way to fight off this type of deadly viral attack.
Vaccines are too slow to create and apply. Palliative drugs may work for a hsort period- but then the virus will mutate. Enhancing immune response has been a neglected area of research and is free of the problems of mutation (for the most part).
@74 correctnitright
We should meet some time at SDL for a beer. I do not think many readers here are interested in this sort of thing.
Alternativel, I am happy to have a longer thread over at SJ.
@75 It’s not an easy conversation for this electrical engineer to follow, but for strictly greedy reasons I find it quite fascinating. Back in November and December (when Mr. Klynical was too stricken with fear to buy) I accummulated a large position in Cel-Sci (CVM), which is one of the micro-cap bios that’s been popping the last couple of days. This today’s press release:
http://news.moneycentral.msn.c.....Symbol=CVM
steve@ 76..
Wow!
I post my transactions WHEN THEY HAPPEN.
You tell us today that you bought something in November & December and expect anyone to believe you??
Kountry Klub steve is a full-time liar.
@77 I told you in a post back in October what stocks I would be accumulating. Cel-Sci was one of them. I have trade confirmations I’m willing to post. And you? You tell us of your trades after the fact. You have no trade confirmations to post.
Enjoy your lunch with GBS, Mr. Klynical. Oh, you’re not going to lunch? Why? No trade confirmations. No apology to our troops.
Mr. Klynical. A liar and a coward.
-heh
Go ahead and post them steve.
heh–
Just wondering if anyone that post here has come down with the swine flu.
Since they have known about it for at least a month, that is plenty of time for it to have spread. just wondering.
No problem. When Goldy tells me that he has yours, then I’ll send him mine, including trade confirmations for a small position in ABPIQ I bought as a donation to HA. Like the others that have moved, SANM, ONT and UIS, when ABPIQ popped to 100%, I sold half, having bought twice as much as I want to hold long. Goldy now has 5000 shares of ABPIQ. I got them for the price of two trades, or $.002 per share. The most I could lose now is $20. In two years or so I’ll sell and send Goldy a check, maybe sooner, if ABPIQ hits my price target.
And you? You’re nothing but a liar and a coward, Mr. Klynical. You talk about taking risks, but when the time came, you were too afraid to do anything.
OK, Mr. Klynical, Goldy now has my trade confirmations. Put up or shut up, you piece of shit.
Check out this website http://www.swine-flu-tracker.com/ that tracks the spread of swine flu, it really puts things in perspective