Oral arguments before the Washington State Supreme court over whether King County should tally the 723 previously uncounted (and unrejected) ballots, will be broadcast live at 9:30AM on TVW. I’ll be watching via streaming video.
Now that it seems clear that Christine Gregoire has won the hand recount, the court can rule dispassionately, without having to worry about reversing an election. But the ruling is important nonetheless, for if the 723 ballots aren’t counted, and the margin stands at only 8, Dino Rossi will surely lead us into the abyss of a contested election. Whereas, add 120 votes to Gregoire’s lead, and Rossi will be forced to think twice.
Goldy- new twist. Rossi campaign reportedly has approximately 250 votes identified as wrongfully rejected by counties- 250 Rossi votes. Apparent strategy if Court rules for Dems is to go back and have the Rossi votes added, under the same basis as the 723 are being added- wringfully/improperly rejected. This would be part of the manual count process, not an election contest.
And as there is no deadline for completing the manual count…
You may be premature saying it seems clear that Gregoire has won the manual recount…
Didn’t I suggest, a while back, that it would be fair to let both campaigns scour the state for every vote that should be counted…?
This is the race that never ends….
That’s not new.
I’ll be watching on cable TV.
Jenny- new twist from what Goldy and I have been discussing- contested election. There seems to be more substance to the particular votes the GOP is working now- they got real serious after Snohomish, then Pierce- as you probably know…
Well Jim… that’s what they say. But I believe the court has already indicated that it won’t grant an order to force canvassing boards to recanvass votes. And I have strong doubts that even Republican dominated canvassing boards around the state have as much of an appetite for this stuff as either Rossi or Gregoire.
Besides, I don’t believe the R’s are holding their cards close to their chest. They’ve been playing the PR game since day one, and if they had an ace up their sleeve, why on earth would they wait till now to use it? So far, all their charges have been unsupported.
I wonder if the Democrats have been doing the same kind of thing. I bet they could come up with people who had voted for Gregoire.
Goldy makes a good point there. If Republicans were to press ahead with their 250, they’d be doing an about face from what they argued in the first lawsuit, where the Democrats were suing King County to get more votes counted.
Jenny- I don’t disagree- but they would be claiming that the rules had been changed. And if the county canvassing board refused to accept the affidavited votes, they’ll go running to federal court on equal protection.
Will Democrats refuse to accept Rossi votes that were wrongfully rejected?
I’m just wondering how much shifting of position we’ll be seeing before it is all done…
I think the Supreme Court will tie its decision today into its prior ruling against the Democrats. The Court has to be consistent, of course, or its decisions won’t mean very much, and then the Court would have to be deciding every little thing. I don’t see any “rules change” here.
a) Yeah, well it isn’t over til we say it’s over. A Gregoire Governorship would be taken down so quickly your head would spin. The first recall in state history, as well as an election contest, are both ready to go.
b) There is the sweet possibility the State Supremes could do us all a favor and throw out the election… Anybody think of that?
A couple of thoughts:
a) If it’s Supreme Court TV, then isn’t it Supreme Television?
b) I personally have also discounted Chris “Vaninator”/”Darth” Vance’s report of Rossi being ahead as well. In fact Vance was a close second for the Dori award. Frankly, I believe both party chairs should Sumo wrestle and the winner decides who’s governor! The thought appeals to me. Then again, after passing out last night and not having any caffiene – just about anything does.
Sure Josef – and Santa really does come down your chinmey.
Recall is a legal impossibility.
But please put a lot of time and money into the project…..give it a try just to learn how impossible it is.
Since the statutes in the RCW has guided this election step by step, what is the basis of the suit other than sore looser. For the good of the state and the ability of he Gov elct to lead, you and others who are upset, need to let her govern. Try again in four years.
Election all over the national news this am.
Picture this —Thousands of Red Radicals cowding the streets of New York and SFO……jumping with joy, chanting “it must be Christmas”
I knew Sam Reed would come to the rescue, he said if the court rules against the King County votes then the other counties would have to toss their added votes… :)
Comment by Bob from Boeing— 12/22/04 @ 7:16 am
Screw you. Gregoire governs, we lose our freedom. Do I need to remind you about her record on public records? On public meetings? On bullying whistleblowers? I could go on.
Also, you can go to “Josef’s Public Journal” and thank Marummy Lane!
Oh and Bob From Boeing – that’s right, you work for a corporation that doesn’t want to tell us the truth about the 7E7!
Chuck – I haven’t done the math, but it’s possible that if all the other added votes were tossed it would still keep Rossi from winning. Remember that Rossi picked up a lot of votes outside of KC in the manual recount. His lead was slightly larger after the hand recount (+7) outside of KC. So don’t gloat about the potential for all the added votes to be thrown out, might still hurt Rossi.
Josef – it doesn’t matter who Bob works for and what his company is or isn’t guilty of. If you can’t refute what he says without resorting to an attack based on “guilt by association” then you don’t win the argument.
In your recent posts I’ve noticed a switch from being a “Dinocrat” to a full-fledged Republican – claiming Democrats aren’t interested in Democracy. Look, if the official results say Rossi lost, why don’t you do what you asked Gregoire to do and concede? It’s what’s good for the state. Or are you now going to claim the rules have changed and try anything to get your guy elected?
To me, if you do that, it will prove that you (as a Rossi supporter) are no different than Gregoire supporters who insisted on exercising their legal rights to pay for a hand recount (which they believed would get Gregoire a victory).
Yes,l here in the Chicgo Goloden Tower, I dictate what the chiefs of this mega Fortune 500 titan of aero space and war machines, I cn tell them what to do.
Can’t, don’t, not at all- but sure wish Washington did not loose those 27,000 excellent paying jobs that washed away in the past 5 years.
In th short erm, nothing will replace those lost high paying union jobs. In the long term, prospects are even worse. Real wages are the issue with the new jobs, but that is another discussion.
Josef – hope you have some good times during the Holidays.
Strange timeing for this election stuff, but good time for all the partisans to get on with their lives, make their friends puke with overload election chit chat., and GO to the giant Gregoire Victory Rally.
Rossi needs to concede if he wants a political future.
Rossi needs to concede if he wants a political future.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You forget, Rossi didnt start this crap, he is at worst the best 2 out of 3 winner
Jim – A portion of the 250 the Republicans are trotting out have signature mismatches, making them materially different than the 735. To use your example, let’s call them kumquats. If the Republicans were to get a ruling from a Federal court to include those votes, then King County, which had the toughest signature matching rules, gets to investigate and potentially include far more than the 735 votes that were never checked. There are another 1000-1500 votes (actual rejects) where the signatures didn’t match or they had other problems. Republicans are trying to muddy the waters by comparing votes rejected based on signature mismatches or other problems with votes improperly put in a pile with those votes (and yes, I understand why they’re doing that, but it’s a false equivalency, imho).
I think the Republicans are really hoping that they’ll drum up enough support for a revote (which they won’t) by muddying the waters enough to convince the public the Dems stole the election. Actually getting all the votes re-counted probably wouldn’t help them.
If the State Supremes make a narrow ruling confirming that county canvassing boards have discretion, I can’t imagine the Supreme Court doing anything other than refusing to hear the case. After all, they refused to authorize a full recount in Florida because of a weird (imho) interpretation of equal protection, right?
Well, Chuck, unfortunately this isn’t a “best out of x” contest. You’ve been saying that since the beginning. The hand recount is legal, was paid for by the Dems and has been more closely scrutinized by partisan observers than either of the first two counts. If Gregoire wins this, State law says she’s the winner.
Just like State law would say Rossi is the winner if Gregoire had conceded after the machine recount, or Rossi won a hand recount after losing the machine counts.
It’s like instant replay in football. If the refs overturn the call, then the call is overturned. It’s not “half overturned” because they originally called it differently. People certainly continue to argue about the call outside of the game, but the game proceeds as per the refs’ ruling.
AND, if he, Mr. Lanb/Wolf Rossi is going to try to beat the lovely Maria, and all her $$$$$, then he need to quickly change his disguise.
Looking and acting Senatorial is a whole different bag than way cool cat Gov.
Early concession with even temper and diliberate decorm is very Senatorial, put Slade and Nethercuttt by his side as props.
Or, dearest Joseph, you could always pack your bags and move to lets say……Alabama. Your words would hold meaning there. Here they are usually just worthless, frustrated babble full of venom, hatred and loathing. mmmm, sounds more like a snake…how about TExas for you
Frankly I wouldnt put Slade as dog catcher
Chuck – Here at this excellent Blog- we can invent or play with terms. Goldy has approved that.
SO, let’s call it a THREE phase project. Like any other project. Three steps to completion. We did A and B, and the C. It is done now, our effort = result. That really is what the Election laws provide….If needed and players willing to pay, go thuough three phases for the winner.
Each count of the ballots, except the last was intermediate, not determinate.
Yeah, well you all – we are all reacting to the fulminations of Baghdad Bob Berendt – NOT verified by anybody else!
And look, Rossi isn’t going to back down at this point. The point of no return is far, far behind us Washingtonians!
I would also like to see a second manual recount, to check the accuracy of the first one….
Slade Gordon makes me vomit.—TRUE story. Slade has a gay son. Years ago he acknowledged that publicly on a radio show in Yakima.
GET THIS- and the reason it was an isssue in gay friendly Seattle, Slade never talked about his son…..only his daughters. In fact, all his campaign material had nice family pictures but NEVER with the gay son. Nice dad, eh, model parent for the world to see….all that phoney good character oozing from the slime ball all those years….uk.
Josef – AP, been around for years, did not post an unverified story. Not of this scale and this time. Suggest three confirmed sources, good journalism standatds.
Well Chuck, do you have 730,000.00 for starters?
Never know, $730,000 might not be so hard…
Slade Gordon makes me vomit.—TRUE story. Slade has a gay son. Years ago he acknowledged that publicly on a radio show in Yakima. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dont know about the gay son but the reason that I dont like him is he is basically a democrat hiding within the republican party.
Repugs are playing typical ‘repug’ games. When they are ahead, regardless of the margin – they want the Democrats to concede. Then when the Democrats are ahead, they whine, cry, kick, and scream – change their minds about what should be counted.
The Repugs will do whatever they have to to try to win.
“a) Yeah, well it isn’t over til we say it’s over. A Gregoire Governorship would be taken down so quickly your head would spin. The first recall in state history, as well as an election contest, are both ready to go.” – Who the hell is ‘we’ – the Repugs? – HA! I don’t think that DEMOCRACY works that way you twit!
“b) There is the sweet possibility the State Supremes could do us all a favor and throw out the election… Anybody think of that?”
Wishful, whiney ass thinking moron!
KAREN- GO KIDDO. Let’s find out when and where the Victory Party is – great gloating time, with out the dead duck Rinno-crats.
Participating Justices: Gerry Alexander, Barbara Madsen, Charles Johnson, Faith Ireland, Susan Owens, and Tom Chambers.
Absent: Justices Richard Sanders, Bobbe Bridge, and Mary Fairhurst.
Pro Tem: Appeals Court Judge (didn’t catch the name)
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe a 2nd hand recount is NOT provided for in state law … (?)
Correct- RCW 29A.64.070 “After the original count, canvass, and certification of results, the votes cast in any single precinct may not be recounted and the results recertified more than twice.”
This is a muddle of argument- the problem of having facts in dispute and no lower court trial record from which to work. I did catch that King County has found signature records for 583 of the 723…
Sounds like a recipe for the Supremes saying that the KC canvassing board is doing its job and is using its discretion properly.
After watching the arguments presented and listening to the questions from the justices my ‘guess’ is that they are going to allow KC to recanvass and protect the individual voters.
The pro-tem was Judge C. C. Bridgewater of the State Court of Appeals, Division 2. Pro-tems are chosen from the current membership of the State Courts of Appeal, and retired judges of those courts, not currently practicing law, and under the mandatory retirement age of 75… Judge Bridgewater’s bio, from the court website:
Judge Bridgewater was appointed to the Court of Appeals in November 1994, where he continues to serve by election. He holds a B.A. in philosophy from Stanford University (1966) and a law degree from the University of Texas at Austin (1969).
Judge Bridgewater began his legal career with the Federal Trade Commission in Kansas City, Missouri. After three years doing consumer protection work, he moved to Cowlitz County and worked as a Deputy Prosecuting Attorney. Two years later he entered private practice focusing on criminal defense, domestic relations, and health care law. In 1986 he was elected to serve as the Prosecuting Attorney for Cowlitz County until his appointment to the appellate court.
Bar activities have included: Chair of the Young Lawyers Section; Board member of Evergreen Legal Services, Washington Hospital Attorneys, BAR-PAC, Disciplinary Board, Criminal Justice Advisory Council, Washington Association of Prosecuting Attorneys; Bar Examiner; Task Force on Governance.
Local activities have included: Board member of YMCA of S.W. Washington, Little League, KLTV, Health Care Foundation, Cowlitz County Bar Association, Ethnic Support Council; Member of Hospital Institutional Review Board, Rotary, Substance Abuse Coalition; Chair, Cancer Society for Jail and Bail.
Judge Bridgewater and his wife, Kay, have three boys.
Nice posts, Jim.
As far as the gent from Boeing, small confession: A few days ago, in an attempt to see if EFF was FINALLY getting their documents – I advised Jason Mercier that action [DOT] wa [DOT] gov had posted a ton of docs. They haven’t got back to me or posted on their website…
See, I tend to believe in passionate play within the bounds…
Also, you all – I just cannot believe that you would not discount it if it was the Vaninator saying he won by 8 votes. I hope I would.
AND YOU HEARD IT HERE: RAISE MY SALES TAX FOR THE $4 MILLION!
King Co said last night that they now have matches on 700 of the ballots in question.
Bet for the Dems………Sec of State was excellent, King Co lady was not listening to questions, missed one completely. Bad form for this court.
Sec of State guy was nice and good attorney, this time impasioned, well informed.
Need to call the R attorney Mr. Babbling Brook…he confused himself.
The terms are confusing. I think the only ones who are expert on the terms are posting at this blog….. the good blog universe.
Josef – you need to concede. Show that you are a gentleman in the good blog universe.
Josef is a Repug, he doesn’t know how to concede. He’ll just whine, bitch, and cry for the next four years…. he isn’t a gentleman, he’s a Repug!
The Secretary of state and the courts have made it clear: The county canvassing boards can, but are not obligated to, correct mistakes. In addition, Sam Reed has said counties are not to go back and correct their mistakes. THurston County should retract 1 vote for gregoire, as this was done incorrectly.