I’ve long appreciated The Stranger for its stable of quirky, entertaining writers. But I gotta say that with this week’s feature on the Bush administration’s domestic spying programs (“Using the F-Word“), they sure have upgraded the talent level over that boring blogger guy they had writing this time last year.
Really. Give it a read. It’s good stuff.
Good thing the Stranger fired that Log Cabin republiCON Steffy. They were hurting their credibility by giving that piece of shit ink.
Where do I join up to fuck up the NSA’s spying program?? HAHA
Well, my real name is on this post, I hope there’s some sympathy when/if I drop the soap in the hoosegow, but I’ve always figured “they” might be listening. The use of euphemisms when discussing possible extra-legal activities has always been a concern to me when I speak on the phone, and more with my cell.
On ther other hand, I take care to never actually say something on the “internet” that I’m not willing to back to the fullest extent of my ability. So, NSA, if you’ve got my last 35 years of phone talk on record, start scanning. Or maybe I’m screwing up now :)
Kudos Dave!! It’s not like they can’t trace us down with the Oreo crate full of cookies we all have in our computers.
Spot on, Goldy. Let’s take these fuckers OUT! (Via political processes, of course).
I heard a good suggestion for righties who jerk their knees to dismiss the idea that the NSA would listen to their conversations.
Begin each phone call with “As-salaam alaykum” and end with “Allahu Akbar”. Then see how long it takes to show up on the no fly list.
Yeah.. Domestic spying… The story that keeps falling on its face every time someone does some fact checking.
Anyway..
The stranger is unfortunately doing what too many other “news” sources do these days. Package their “news” in a way that appeals to a target audience. And the strangers target audience doesn’t want to hear about how stories accusing the large phone companies of providing the feds with their records turn out to be embarrassingly wrong. Or how it turns out the same democrats that have been insinuating the program operates outside the law have been thoroughly briefed on it as early as November 2001…yet didn’t seem to take issue with it at all then. Etc. Etc. Etc.
No.. The stranger’s target audience wants news that is going to reinforce their existing world view.. One where Bush is Hitler and we’re just all a breath away from fascism.
And no.. this isn’t something that’s unique to the stranger or to its audience.
It’s the same pathetic act of desperation occurring all over the media landscape. As the competition for consumers becomes more intense. And media outlets do what ever they can to keep the readers/viewers/listeners they have in order to try and stay in business.
So please… can we not commend these people when they forsake the reporting and follow up of simple facts for the reporting of “facts” packaged and spun in a way that is meant to appeal to their audience instead of inform them…even if the facts are unappealing.
M
To Harry Tuttle…
Unless you were the recipient of a call from a known or suspected terrorist. Or you made a call to same. Or you had a distinctly anomalous pattern of activity associated with your means of communication. (Unique as we like to think we all are..Our individual day to day behavior fits into what would be considered a normal activity pattern). You could get on your phone and scream what ever you want in any language you please and the NSA could give two shits about you. Sorry to deflate your sense of self importance. M
Goldy, don’t let a few facts get in the way of a really good story. USAtoday didn’t. But, as long as they published a bunch of garbage, you are free to quote it as a source.
If the police follow a robbery suspect to see where he is fencing the stolen goods, is this domestic spying? If the police sit outside of a pawn shop to see who is bringing stuff in, is that domestic spying? No warrant is used in either.
But the issue is dead- the phone companies deny giving the records.
The piece was long-winded and could have been condensed. Talk about boring.
Mike, my take on this is that they shouldn’t be doing this at all regardless. It sets a precident that is bothersome and if history tells us anything, trusting your government to always do the right thing is a folley. We could argue all day about what and whom the NSA are targeting, but the fact they are collecting data on US citizens remains. Like that drunk e-mail sent to your ex-girlfriend, the data doesn’t go away. Other than that I somewhat agree.
Mike -8:Unless you were the recipient of a call from a known or suspected terrorist.
You must be new here. These lefty wackos do not receive calls from terrorists – they place calls to them. They are always starving for talking points and Osama, Saddam, etc. are all too happy to oblige. One can only come up with a limited amount of original anti-American, anti-troops propaganda on his own.
You bet these lefties are worried.
Manbearpig for President!
Hey, what if you accidentally happen to get patched into a cell phone conversation between two people who are talking about a conspiracy to violate the laws of the United States? What if the conspiracy was for the purpose of influencing the makeup of our government and our electoral process? What if you recognize at least one of the participants, and have the means to quickly record the conversation? Because you are uncertain who might be involved in the consipiracy, what if you make sure you turn it over to someone you feel you can trust to take appropriate action?
If “You” are the NSA, no problem. You don’t even have to “accidentally” obtain the conversation, you just do it so just because somebody in the government asks you to do so. Of course, its against the law, but we cannot let a little thing like antiquated and unwieldy laws prevent us from protecting the U.S. from those who would do us harm, can we? And judicial oversight is SO unsafe – we need to keep that information close within the administration to protect us from terrorists (or from the husbands of CIA agents who happen to annoy us), don’t we?
But what if the recording is really accidentally obtained by a private citizen, and turned over to a Congressman, such as Mike Lowrey? What if the recording details the plans of the Republican Speaker of the House (or ex-Speaker) to violate the terms of an ethics judgement against him, in order to gain a political advantage? Why, you prosecute the well-meaning citizens and the Congressmen for wiretapping and electronic privacy laws! We proceed in court with an attempt to bankrupt him with judgements and attorney’s fees awards. We need to make it clear that NOBODY messes with us! We do what we want to do – and we SQUASH anybody who dares to cross us!
This is a good piece, showing that informed people feel more than nervous laughter. Secret surveillance is used to monitor, and blatant surveillance is used to shape discourse and intimidate people. That’s why some FBI officials wanted MLK to know he was being wiretapped.
For a great blog post on how it’s getting worse, check out:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....21102.html
Congressmen for wiretapping and electronic privacy laws! We proceed in court with an attempt to bankrupt him with judgements and attorney’s fees awards. We need to make it clear that NOBODY messes with us! We do what we want to do – and we SQUASH anybody who dares to cross us!
Comment by rhp6033 — 5/18/06 @ 8:16 am
rhp his wife clean out the bank account not a lawsuit from his fellow Congressmen. You really do not have anything to worry about, you could not kill a fly, or possess any knowledge that would present any harm to this country.
Kinda interesting that we have a prezzynit who claims he doesn’t read the papers, pays no attention to polls, ignores mass public protests against his policies…but wants to know what we’re saying on the phone and to whom.
Oh, yeah…they’re not supposed to be listening the calls, just logging the connections. The more heatedly the folks in the gubmint push that claim, the less I believe it.
For all of those who quickly dismiss what this administration is doing and say, “it can’t be THAT bad,” I say, “WAKE UP!” When ALL of your civil liberties are gone and your day to day existence is not unlike that of Winston Smith in 1984, don’t say you didn’t see this coming. But wait, at the end of that novel, Smith finally wins “the victory over himself” and loves Big Brother. Perhaps that is what you all want in the end anyway. OK, CHEERS!
Btw, David–Excellent piece in the Stranger. Keep it up!
The NSA has been briefing congress since Oct 2001. Phone companies deny turning over records as alledged in USAtoday. Hayden goes behind congresional closed doors before his confirmation, and, look- opposition melts away.
As far as I can tell, not one citizen of the US has accused the govt of violating their civil rights through wiretapping or other means of surveillance. What would be the point of listening in on conversations, if you never did anything with the information?
You all need to get some perspective and take something for the paranoia. It will eat up your brain.
8.
So Mike, are you going to start spicing your conversations?????
I know enough to use the tactics of the Sopranos with mine.
The facistas are really out defending Il Shrubby on this one, no?
Like I said, Janet S, like I said.
Some “libertarians” (nuts, that is) at the Competitive Enterprise Institute” (a front in this case for Exxon) want us to know that C02 is good for us, makes life possible, in fact.
CO2: It’s what’s for dinner!
Don’t listen to those liberals who talk of global warming, C02 is good for you!!!
I now know where Janet S (you know – the one who like her hero Lush Flimbaugh – thinks wars are great as long as someone else fights them) gets her talking points. She’s quoting Rush.
The fact is, the way the right wing media has distorted USA Today’s report, it might make sense to say the article was wrong. But I encourage everyone to read USA Today, not the right’s take on it. Also, note that Tony Snow accidentally acknowledged the program during his first press briefing and the right wingers are doing what they always do, parsing words and using debate tactics to try to change the facts. Here’s another FACT that the right wing turds don’t want you to know.
President Clinton NEVER authorized a program such as the one the NSA is running. He authorized Echilon, which required FISA warrants. There’s a ton of difference between authorizing a warrant-based search and the warrantless stuff the Bush regime is doing.
If Bush’s jackbooted thugs were going to get court approval and using warrants, I’d have no trouble with the NSA program. But the typical meglomaniacal Bush reaction is to say, “I don’t need no stinkin’ courts.” The asshole thinks he’s King. He and his ilk will find out different in Nov.
The NSA has been briefing congress since Oct 2001.
Look who’s in charge of Congress? Traitorous collaborators like Janet S.
Phone companies deny turning over records as alledged in USAtoday.
Hmmmm.. Did Qwest lie about not cooperating? Oh I get it Janet, it was all a plot to boost Qwest’s sales! Great sleuthing there, Janet!
Hayden goes behind congresional closed doors before his confirmation, and, look- opposition melts away.
Only opposition that matters with the clowns that control Congress is at the ballot box and even that is being steadily eroded. Does that give you the warm fuzzies Janet?
As far as I can tell, not one citizen of the US has accused the govt of violating their civil rights through wiretapping or other means of surveillance. What would be the point of listening in on conversations, if you never did anything with the information?
Pure ignorance.
You all need to get some perspective and take something for the paranoia. It will eat up your brain.
I’ll skip the meds you’re on Janet, if you don’t mind.
Let’s debunk some of Janet S’ lies…
Janet S says
“The NSA has been briefing congress since Oct 2001.”
So – briefing a FEW republican members doesn’t count and it’s not like they had any say in it. They were told, “we’re doing this don’t like it tough.” That’s hardly comforting to even some GOP members.
“Phone companies deny turning over records as alledged in USAtoday.”
Not all of them and the ones who did deny it did so AFTER they got sued. Not surprising is it.
“Hayden goes behind congresional closed doors before his confirmation, and, look- opposition melts away.”
It’s a bit early for that. The guy hasn’t been confirmed yet.
“As far as I can tell, not one citizen of the US has accused the govt of violating their civil rights through wiretapping or other means of surveillance. What would be the point of listening in on conversations, if you never did anything with the information?”
Wow Janet S you must have one powerful communications system. You are aware of the conduct of every American and whether or not they complained to the Government?
“You all need to get some perspective and take something for the paranoia. It will eat up your brain.”
Give this advice to republicans Hagel, Snow, Specter, Gingrich and a host of other fellow righties who have said this program is a mistake.
Talk about propiganda. I wonder if Janet S is really that guy from Iraq who used to get on TV and say everything was fine?
Wanna see why the religious right and the GOP must be stopped? Look at this asshole rightie who actually ran for President!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12851397/
Is this the kind of shit you want to see run into government?
I can’t wait this old fuck to curl up and die so I can meet him in Hell!
27.
You mean, Pat didn’t say we’d deserve it?
Just keep those moonbat tinfoil hats on Left Turn, etc. and you should all be just fine.
Danno…
Pull your head out of your ass long enough to see what’s going on.
More GOP scandals…
GOP big shot Maurice “Hank” Greenberg, indicted for alleged stock manipulation.
More GOP scandals…
Looks like Tom Noe, indicted for 53 counts including theft, money laundering, and tampering with records; some money laundered to Bush-Cheney 04, is going down hard.
big shot Maurice “Hank” Greenberg, indicted for alleged stock manipulation.
Commentby LeftTurn [……………………………………………………………………………..Why, Leftturn…………Are you being anti-semetic? Why, I think you are!!! You may have committed a hate crime!]
31………….Evil Leftturn hates Jews!!!!!
For all of you who think that if you yell and wave your arms that you can prove me wrong – point me to one person who has had their civil liberties violated by the NSA. If someone had, I am sure that one of the many moonbat organizations would have found out and made a huge amount of publicity over it.
Put up, or shut up. Find someone who has been violated, and I will begin to listen to your paranoia.
LeftyTurn-24: President Clinton NEVER authorized a program such as the one the NSA is running.
Wake up!
http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne.....-headlines
Maybe you meant that Clinton’s secret programs were not leaked as frequently. Nowadays the lefties want a new terrorist attack on GW’s watch that they will sacrafice everything to get more Americans killed. Good luck on that.
Manbearpig for President!
Janet here are your words:
As far as I can tell, not one citizen of the US has accused the govt of violating their civil rights through wiretapping or other means of surveillance.
Do you see the letters NSA in there? There are THOUSANDS of examples of the GOVERNMENT violating citizens civil rights through surveillance. Why do you think FISA came about?
Now the bushies are completely ignoring FISA and giving lame reasons for doing so. For a so-called conservative you have little problem with the goverment knowing who you talk to, how often and when, that is unless you’re lucky enough to be a Qwest customer.
If you have half a brain (which I doubt) you should be dead set against the government collecting your phone records and listening in on your calls abroad without probable cause and a warrant. History tells us that unfettered access to that kind of information WILL BE ABUSED.
LeftyTurn-26: So – briefing a FEW republican members doesn’t count
Asleep at the wheel again?
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005220.htm
Several Republican members of Congress sent letters to the Internal Revenue Service questioning whether the NAACP had veered into political advocacy and asked for an investigation into its tax-exempt status, according to documents released by the civil rights organization.
The IRS began looking into the Baltimore-based National Association for the Advancement of Colored People about a month before the 2004 presidential election after a speech by NAACP Chairman Julian Bond that was largely critical of President Bush’s policies. [………Because the NAALCP is black, they should not have to follow any laws.]
We’d be glad to answer your question about Americans who have had their civil right violated by the NSA Janet S but we can’t. Your Hitler-like leader GW Bush has made it a crime to divulge that information. Come to think of it, I think that you just committed a crime by trying to incite someone to violate the non-disclosure provision of the National Security Act which makes it a felony to disclose whether or not you’re being investigated by the NSA. Goldy, please forward this thread to the NSA along with Janet S’ IP address so they can properly charge her with a crime.
test
For all the storm and bluster from the President’s apologists, I have yet to hear a single one of them offer a coherent reason for bypassing the FISC. Frankly, from a national security standpoint, it doesn’t make sense. Sneaking around FISA only makes it that much more likely that these programs will see the light of day in Congressional hearings and investigations. On the other hand, if we follow the law then only a secret judge and a handfull of lawmakers ever knows about any of it. And for what? FISA is so ridiculously easy to comply with, every FBI agent working orgainized crime with Title III warrants is green with envy.
I can’t believe what sheeple American idiot Democrats are being about our energy policies. At present, we cannot drill for oil in any of the 50 states or offshore.
We are pumping billions and billions of dollars into the pockets of the Saudis etc, who in turn use our money to fund wacko, idiot, nutcase, Islam towel head terrorists who need to be nuked.
And now Cuba is allowing China (a match made in Hell) to drill off the American coast. And the environmentalists aren’t saying a word (because of course, communist China is more PC than anything American, and the idiot “progressives” love commie Mao and Fidel).
I for one am sick of this. The political balance and climate of the world is being changed in a way that endangers America because the Democrat liberal environmental extremists will not allow us to produce or use our own great resources. Their phoney mask was ripped off over ANWR. That place is a postage stamp sized wasteland in huge Alaska and they still came up with some utter dishonest “raindeer” rationalizations to prevent drilling there. Then the libs bitch that Bush is responsible for high gas prices. They dumb asses wacko Dems scream, “No new refiners, no nukes, no drilling, 50 cents a gallon more Federal gas tax, no war for oil, no will mills off Cape Cod, Kennedyland! Face it: Democrats are traitors to America. And 40% of Americans are too stupid to see through them because they “gets da guvment check” and are scared shitless that they will have to find a job in the private sector. And now, AL GORE’s flies in a private Gulfstream G5 burning 20 thousand gallons of JP5, jumps in a V8 limo [8 MPG], and stays in a oversized air conditioned hotel suite at the Four Seasons to tell us about global cooling……….er, no, global heating. NOT A WORD about how much fossil fuel 1.3 billion commie Red China “progressives” use, or 1 billion Indians [Country of India] use! No, ONLY white American WASP Republicans cause global warming!!! Well, You Dems are fucking idiots, and most Americans are not buying your socialist bullshit!!!!! Finally, fuck you GBS, DON, Leftturn, and you other “progressive” Democrat parasites. Atlas has Shrugged, and you liberal idiots will have to tax each other!!!
@ 43 Digest version:
I am a complete moron with nothing but RNC talking points and racist hatred to provide.
I have never seen anything beyond Hayden Lake, and I am often confused by others as “Barnyard”. I am a clown, and anyone can clearly see that I am.
I remain,
JCH W. Bush
Commentby JCH W. Bush — 5/18/06@ 9:17 pm
Hey David Goldstein: Good column about fascism in The Stranger. You are SO right. Wait! I didn’t mean to insult you. Make that “correct.” I read your piece from down in Victoria (the OTHER Vic, in Australia). My wife and I emigrated there last year precisely because of the fascism that’s taking over the U.S. We’re in our 40s, born and raised in the USA, but we couldn’t live there any more paying taxes into a system that’s killing thousands, and will soon kill millions with an unprovoked nuclear attack on Iran. Lucky for us, I’m a registered nurse, so I could get a work visa here, sell our house and transfer the money to another country where it’s no longer in those declining U.S. dollars.
The trouble with fascism is that it sows the seeds of its own destruction. In economic terms, fascism puts corporate interests ahead of the peoples’ interest. Inevitably, this makes the population poorer and poorer as it enriches the corpos and the rich pigs who control them. So the fascist state ends up with a mass of poor, angry people. And when they reach the breaking point, when enough of them feel they have nothing left to lose, they run wild and start fucking shit up. I can see that coming for the U.S. when the dollar collapses and the economy implodes.
Do you ever listen to Mike Malloy, the late-night raver on Air America Radio? He describes the creeping F-takeover in all its whorey. What’s happening is like the story about “how do you boil a frog?” You don’t throw him in hot water all of a sudden. You turn the temperature up little by little, so the frog barely notices it happening.
What’s most interesting to me is the comments of people who disagree that America is going fascist. I wonder what it will take for them to notice? Petrol at $5 a gallon whilst the oil company executives take home $100 million a year? Losing their jobs and having to join a low-paying private “security” outfit to guard an oil field in occupied Saudi Arabia? The jackboots won’t kick in their doors, but they’ll be ruined financially as the country crumbles into shite. They’ll still be blaming the liberals when it happens…
Australia is far from perfect, mate, but it’s way better than the U.S. I feel so much more relaxed here. It’s sad to see what’s happening to the U.S., but when I read comments from the rabid right-wingers, I get all schadenfreudy knowing they will get what they have coming to them. Too bad it will happen to the decent people too. Good luck — you’ll need it!
P.S. Hey! Wasn’t Goldstein the name of the character in “1984” who was opposed to Big Brother? I know you…
Goldy, after envying Stefan for so long, you finally got a piece in The Stranger. Believe me, it is not a coincidence that the issue in which your piece appears has a trash dumpster on the cover. The joke is on you. Hehe. Haha.
Hi, Nice!
My lifes been really dull these days. Not much on my mind lately. Today was a loss, but oh well. I havent been up to anything lately.