Our good friend Stefan at (un)Sound Politics stormed off his post as Provisional Ballot Judge at St. Bennedicts Parrish today, after the polling place inspector reprimanded him for harassing a provisional ballot voter into leaving without casting a ballot.
In a nutshell, I quit as a poll judge because the inspector threatened me for doing my job of dissuading ineligible individuals from voting.
That’s Stefan’s explanation of his job, but that’s not how Bobbie Egan of King County Records and Elections describes it. “Our procedures are very clear,” Egan said. “Provisional voters are to have their ballots accepted at the polling place, and the determination as to eligibility is to made later in the elections office.”
Silly me, I tried to convince someone who is not eligible to vote in this election to vote in the next election.
Yes, silly you, Stefan. According to Egan, the inspector reported that Stefan was “overzealous” in challenging the voter, asking if he was sure he wanted to perjure himself by claiming he was eligible to vote. The voter reportedly replied that “this just isn’t worth it,” and walked out. Egan says that KCRE is trying to contact the voter to tell him to vote at any other polling place.
Stefan also says that the inspector “threatened” him. According to Egan, Stefan was told that he needed to either follow instructions, or move to a different position. At that point, Stefan said he could “no longer fulfill his oath”, and stormed out of the polling place.
Sounds to me like Stefan was unable to “fulfill his oath” from the moment the polling place opened.
See, when we talk about Republican voter intimidation and suppression, this is exactly the type of crap that would happen all the time should people like Stefan control the polling places… exactly the type of crap that already occurs in Florida and Ohio and many other states.
UPDATE:
I was listening to John Carlson bloviate on this subject while I was driving. Oy.
Let’s just make one thing perfectly clear. I know that Stefan thinks he is an election expert, but in truth, these polling place judges and inspectors only get a few hours of training and work maybe 2 or 3 days a year. And so, KCRE’s wise policy is to have these decisions made by the actual professionals, with the training, experience and tools to best determine a voter’s eligibility… rather than leaving it to some hot-head, partisan asshole administering some improvised poll test.
Classic. Minnow, the walking, squawking voter suppressor.
Nice spin CLOWNstein..
What poll did you work at douchebag???
What a fucking asshole. He’s lucky I wasn’t that voter. I would have fucking slapped him like the bitch he is. The nerve. JUST FOLLOW THE FUCKING LAW YOU PINHEADS. IF THE ELECTION IS FUCKED UP AGAIN, WELL, THEN YOU GET TO BLOG ABOUT IT FOR ANOTHER YEAR AND A HALF. You don’t get to exceed your brief and convince people not to vote. THAT’S NOT YOUR FUCKING JOB.
While my post is in the filter, I just want to say that I respect republicans and conservatives who are bugged by election screw-ups, because so am I. But people don’t have the right to make up the rules as they go along, especially douchebag bloggers, like Stefan.
From what I can tell, Stefan tried to act as the complete canvassing board rather than simply a poll worker.
If there was ballot that shouldn’t have been accepted, there is a process to handle this, not front line poll workers throwing out ballots that they have concluded shouldn’t be counted.
Geesh!
Stefan is god.
As soon as the rest of you realize that, we’ll all be better off.
First they came for the smokers, and I didnt speak up because I didnt smoke. Then they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.
Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945
I added some on to these famous lines in case it might wake a few up that havent voted yet. I dont smoke myself but I-901 is wrong.
@ 6
Uh.. you do know this is election day… you’ve had quite a while to go about articulating your message. Why wait until today?
I read Stefan’s account.
He’s judge and jury…based on what he said he heard…
Now that’s a place I really don’t want to live…..
Typical Republican thuggery. However, this time it sounds as though our favorite wingnut went off in a huff with his jackboots in a twist. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.
Hey Goldy, why don’t you try telling the whole story?
The guy had only just moved to Washington on October 15th. A legally registered voter that does not one make.
Provisional ballots are for people whose registration or voting qualifications are in question. When the guy admits to not even being a legal Washington resident, neither his registration or his ability to vote in this state are in question.
The man does not have the necessary qualifications to vote in this state and therefore does not have the right to do so. You are otherwise supporting the ability of every citizen to go from county to county, state to state, to attepmt to deposit as many ballots as they are physically able to from 0700 to 2000 and demanding that each and every counting agency spend time and money to sort out their mess.
The KCRE is engaging in illegal activities by letting a known ineligible voter cast any type of ballot in Washington State and he is knowingly breaking the law if he casts a ballot.
>First they came for the smokers…
Cough, cough…
Trust me, no one is coming after the smokers, they just want clean air to breathe…..
But… back to Stefan’s ….
AnalogDick-
And that’s exactly what the canvassing board is supposed to determine – not some asshole busybody who doesn’t even understand his own (volunteer) job description.
Had it been me, minnow-boy would have left on a stretcher.
I’m shocked, SHOCKED that such a thing could happen.
>The man does not have the necessary qualifications to vote in >this state and therefore does not have the right to do so.
Yes, perhaps. However, it is not for front line poll worker to make this decision himself. Stefan should have followed the process in every county which is that apparently unqualified voters get a provisional ballot which is sorted out later.
Problem with allowing people like that to vote is they
will count it. This area is fucked up. Just like rats
in a cage and it will only get worse. Democrats in a cage.
Better get a rabies shot.
Allowing self-appointed arbiters of who is entitled to vote threaten potential voters with perjury is not appropriate. Essentially, he was providing an on-the-spot legal conclusion about the requirements for voting. Even if Stefan is correct about whether the guy was eligible to vote, it should be pretty obvious that having poll workers taking this duty upon themselves is a recipe for anarchy and mischief.
Quoting Bobbie Egan says it all; not even worth reading…she’s a hack, there to protect the Dems…
@15 true…
Stefan said he heard this from the guy…therefore it’s all hearsay…but who said Stefan is the ultimate arbiter of truth, justice and honesty? Oh yeah…he did
Typical Spin by Goldy ommitting half of the fact and the rest of his flock blindly following and believing what he says. I went to the SP site (thanks for the link) and here’s what I read:
A person comes in, states he likes to vote, but also declares he is not eligible. This determination was not made by Stefan, but by the person him/herself (I just moved her and was registered in CA). So Stefan explains to him he is not eligible based on WA Law (LAW that is for you who like to dismiss KCE screw ups). Now immediately Stefan is the bad guy in jackboots (ah, gotta love those images you like to present). But…all he did was follow the oath he had to give:
—-
The following shall be the oath or affirmation of each judge:
“We, A B, do swear (or affirm) that we will as judges duly attend the ensuing election, during the continuance thereof, and faithfully assist the inspector in carrying on the same; that we will not give our consent to the receipt of any vote or ballot from any person, other than one whom we firmly believe to be entitled to vote at such election; and that we will make a true and perfect return of the said election and will in all things truly, impartially, and faithfully perform our duty respecting the same to the best of our judgment and abilities; and that we are not directly nor indirectly interested in any bet or wager on the result of this election.”
—–
He knew the guy was ineligible and was not giving his consent …see above.
Now if this is wrong in your eyes….that explains a lot.
And your quote from Bobbie does not address the issue at all. It address provisional ballots by eligible voters.
Shame on you
>Even if Stefan is correct about whether the guy was eligible to >vote, it should be pretty obvious that having poll workers >taking this duty upon themselves is a recipe for anarchy and >mischief.
Exactly. Stefan could have eaily just made sure the ballot was challenged. However, he wanted to be the election board himself and bypass the requirement to give the voter a provisional ballot.
Of course, a poll worker could have a significant effect on election if they just selectively threatened tried to ward off selected voters. Better yet, just do that across the board in a county where your opponent which has a high percentage of the vote.
This is why David Irons must win. Dean Logan has to go. He doesn’t understand election law.
In order to cast a provisional ballot, a voter needs to be legally registered. The guy who has only lived here for 3 weeks wasn’t eligible to vote. Stefan was 100% correct, as usual.
The assholes at King County Elections told the guy to go vote in another precinct. That violatges MY civil rights. If this guy’s vote is counted, I’ll file a gd lawsuit to protect MY rights. This bullshit has to stop.
SEADOG @ 18
True if this was formally determined. All we know is Stefan said this is what the guy said…was there proof? Any indication of informatin integrity?
No .. just Stefan saying he heard the guy say something.
You want to live in a country like that? Not me….
So, what is the purpose of taking an oath as a poll worker? Besides that it is required by state law?
If the poll workers did their jobs, our elections would be a lot cleaner. The canvassing board let through untold number of ineligible votes last election. Now we know how they do it.
I don’t trust Dean Logan and the rest of the thieves, but they will remain in power, because they control the ballot box. Congrats, Dems! You win again!
Ok, so let me get this straight… Stefan gets this idea in his head that he gets to be judge and jury because he does not trust the rules. So he makes up his own rules and gets huffy when someone calls him on it?
Stefan does not get to interpret his oath into meaning that he gets electoral superpower. We have a system, we have laws… conservatives don’t get to make them up as they go along.
“The assholes at King County Elections told the guy to go vote in another precinct. That violatges MY civil rights.”
-Mark the Redneck Attorney
TO ALL LEFT WINGNUTS:
Stefan Sharkansky followed his oath.
TO ALL LEFT WINGNUTS: SHOULD I RACE DOWN FROM SKAGIT COUNTY AND VOTE IN KING COUNTY?
Stefan knows more about election law than Sam Reed and Dean Logan combined ! ! ! He didn’t make up rules. He showed the guy chapter and verse of Washington election law, and the guy decided not to vote.
Hey Candrew – What’s your point? Do you think I don’t get to exercise my civil rights? Illegal votes cancel my vote. That’s wrong. That’s illegal. That’s evil. GD right I’ll challenge it.
@21 True if this was formally determined. All we know is Stefan said this is what the guy said…was there proof?
Proof might be needed if Stefan refused to allow him to vote. However, that is not what happened. When Stefan explained to him that the law states that you have to have lived here for 30 days (it is even on the form the voter would have to sign), the would-be voter chose not to violate the law. Get it? The voter decided not to vote. Neither Stefan nor the canvassing board need prove anything.
Is there a single nitwit nutburger anywhere who has a modicum of reading comprehension?
Stefan pointed out to the honest gentleman (clearly he had to be conservative) that he was ineligible to vote, BUT that he could indeed cast a ballot and Stefan, KNOWING HE WAS INELIGIBLE, would have to mark the ballot as such and that the honest gentleman, signing his name saying it was legitimate when in fact it was not, would be opening himself to perjury.
How difficult is that to understand… especially when your new favorite talking points word (perjury) is involved.
Wow, maybe some day Stefan will be Supreme Court Justice just like vote suppression fanatic Rehnquist.
What a tool.
By the way, Goldy, you are an disingenuous, deceitful ass.
Your half truths, manipulation of the facts and outright lies must make you a charter member of the Michael Moron Wannabe Club.
Just thought you’d want to know.
IF YOU HAD YOUR WAY, YOU WINGNUTS, I COULD BRING 10,000 OF MY CLOSEST SKAGITONIAN FRIENDS AND VOTE.
GEE, IS THAT OKAY W/ YOU?
YOO-HOO, YOU WANT ME TO BREAK THE LAW?
Shut up and say, “Thank you, Stefan for keeping Skagitonians from voting for David Irons, Jr.”
Thomas at 21: How would the canvassing board have determined it ? Call the voter…nope.
According to Stefans story, he said he would have to mark the statements on the envelope, not full 30 days, etc. At that point it became clear to the “voter” that he wasn’t eligible and left …So Stephan did inform the voter what had to be done, but the voter didn’t want to continue. It was not that he refused to take the ballot, but he informed the voter about everything. Without that info, how would the “canvassing board” have determined it ?
Pls look at the full story and go through the steps.
Some people are alive ONLY because it’s against the law to kill them.
I think having them sign the Voter Declaration is illegal too
“I declare that the facts on this voter registration form are true:
*I am a citizen of the United States
*I am not presently denied my civil rights as a result of being convicted of a felony
*I will have lived in Washington at this address for thirty days immediately before the next election at which I vote
*I will be at least eighteen years old when I vote.”
This is absolutely hilarious. Stefan “Plan B” Sharkansky whining about voter eligibility.
“So here’s Plan B. Let everybody who voted for Dino Rossi in November re-register to vote giving the King County Administration Building as their residence. We can then all vote in this year’s elections for both a Republican to unseat Larry Phillips, giving the council a 5-4 Republican majority, and also for a Republican to replace King County Executive Ron Sims. Visualize the housecleaning that will ensue when we win.” – Stefan Sharkansky, 1/14/2005
Wow, I am impressed by the stupidity of the left. Follow laws? Not us they say. Let anyone vote? Of course, who cares about the law. And you guys complain about Tom DeLay. Damn you guys are LEFTIST the CLOWN!
Comment by LeftTurn — 11/8/05 @ 5:46 pm
Yeah, and this post just proves it – in a way: Bobbie Egan, Goldy, Belltowner, Rooselk, Erik, Nindid, camplant and bumplant are all losers who cannot read basic law.
Or hey, they want Snohomish, Skagit, Pierce and Orange Counties picking King County’s Executive? Nice idea, if only it was legal.
Comment by chascarrillo — 11/8/05 @ 5:49 pm
Sarcasm and you just made my list.
If Stefan is guilty, then every poll worker who forced a voter to sign a statement saying
“I declare that the facts on this voter registration form are true:
*I am a citizen of the United StatesI am not presently denied my civil rights as a result of being convicted of a felony
*I will have lived in Washington at this address for thirty days immediately before the next election at which I vote
*I will be at least eighteen years old when I vote.”
must then also be guilty.
If Stefan is guilty, then every poll worker who forced a voter to sign a statement saying
[Content removed, Goldy is filtering the text of the Voter Declaration]
must then also be guilty.
http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/005294.html
Truth
Comment by Michael — 11/8/05 @ 5:56 pm
Correct. Our liberty is preserved by limits on that liberty… when one’s actions imperil another’s liberty. Clearly the Californian was going to do that, as were others.
Also:
http://www1.leg.wa.gov/LawsAnd.....tution.htm
ARTICLE VI: ELECTIONS AND ELECTIVE RIGHTS
SECTION 1 QUALIFICATIONS OF ELECTORS. All persons of the age of eighteen years or over who are citizens of the United States and who have lived in the state, county, and precinct thirty days immediately preceding the election at which they offer to vote, except those disqualified by Article VI, section 3 of this Constitution, shall be entitled to vote at all elections. [AMENDMENT 63, 1974 Senate Joint Resolution No. 143, p 807. Approved November 5, 1974.]
State Constutition:
http://www1.leg.wa.gov/LawsAnd.....tution.htm
ARTICLE VI, ELECTIONS AND ELECTIVE RIGHTS; SECTION 1 QUALIFICATIONS OF ELECTORS:
All persons of the age of eighteen years or over who are citizens of the United States and who have lived in the state, county, and precinct thirty days immediately preceding the election at which they offer to vote, except those disqualified by Article VI, section 3 of this Constitution, shall be entitled to vote at all elections. [AMENDMENT 63, 1974 Senate Joint Resolution No. 143, p 807. Approved November 5, 1974.
AGAIN, the state constitution is censored!!!
http://www1.leg.wa.gov/LawsAnd.....tution.htm
Article VI, Section 1
@22 Ok, so let me get this straight… Stefan gets this idea in his head that he gets to be judge and jury because he does not trust the rules. So he makes up his own rules and gets huffy when someone calls him on it?
Well, there is this little thing called RCW.
RCW 29A.08.810
A person’s right to vote may be challenged at the polls only by a precinct judge or inspector.
Sharkansky was a precinct judge. Get it?
Michael, are you an angel?
Thank you for coming to the rescue.
The following shall be the oath or affirmation of each judge:
“We, A B, do swear (or affirm) that we will as judges duly attend the ensuing election, during the continuance thereof, and faithfully assist the inspector in carrying on the same; that we will not give our consent to the receipt of any vote or ballot from any person, other than one whom we firmly believe to be entitled to vote at such election; and that we will make a true and perfect return of the said election and will in all things truly, impartially, and faithfully perform our duty respecting the same to the best of our judgment and abilities; and that we are not directly nor indirectly interested in any bet or wager on the result of this election.”
The following shall be the oath or affirmation of each judge:
“We, A B, do swear (or affirm) that we will as judges duly attend the ensuing election, during the continuance thereof, and faithfully assist the inspector in carrying on the same; that we will not give our consent to the receipt of any vote or ballot from any person, other than one whom we firmly believe to be entitled to vote at such election; and that we will make a true and perfect return of the said election and will in all things truly, impartially, and faithfully perform our duty respecting the same to the best of our judgment and abilities; and that we are not directly nor indirectly interested in any bet or wager on the result of this election.”
The following shall be the oath or affirmation of each judge:
“We, A B, do swear (or affirm) that we will as judges duly attend the ensuing election, during the continuance thereof, and faithfully assist the inspector in carrying on the same; that we will not give our consent to the receipt of any vote or ballot from any person, other than one whom we firmly believe to be entitled to vote at such election; and that we will make a true and perfect return of the said election and will in all things truly, impartially, and faithfully perform our duty respecting the same to the best of our judgment and abilities; and that we are not directly nor indirectly interested in any bet or wager on the result of this election.”
Do you get it yet????
Thank you for supporting democracy and volunteeering your time to work at this election. Please sign this oath, required by RCW 29A.44.510, stating you will not accept votes from persons you know are not eligible to vote. Great, now that you’ve signed the oath please disreguard it and accept any and all ballots no matter what. Additionally no need to question why our procedures are in conflict with the RCW.
Have a nice day.
Josef Listmaker @38
Yay. I made Josef’s list of people who can’t read basic law, despite never making any comments that even touch the topic or perview of basic law. Woo!
Question: Assuming that this was sarcasm (and judging from Stefan’s “now, I’m not telling anyone to do this, winkwink nudgenudge…”, that point is dubious), I point Josef to the many comments made by numerous people who didn’t take that from his post and proceeded to plan to do what he suggested. Instead of admonishing them, Stefan let those comments stand unanswered and undeleted. So, Stefan knowingly encouraged election fraud. So suck it.
I did a little math. According to Stefan’s post the guy said he had lived here since October 13th. That’s 27 days ago. Last I checked 27 was pretty close to 30, and depending on the exact facts of the situation the guy may or may not have been eligible to vote. There isn’t time in the polls to sit down and pour over every detail to figure out the truth, thats why there are provisional ballots.
Mountain Man @ 55 says:
“Please sign this oath, required by RCW 29A.44.510, stating you will not accept votes from persons you know are not eligible to vote.”
Stefan knows dick and so so you. Stefan *says* he heard the guy say it, and all the right-wing wackaloons stand up like little puppets and cry “FRAUD, FRAUD!”
If the guy said it, fine. Make a notation on the guy’s provisional ballot and let the Canvassing Board sort it out. If the guy goes before the Canvassing Board and says yeah, I’m ineligible and I told that to the poll worker, then ipso facto, his vote doesn’t count. End of story, and Stefan did his job according to his oath.
Maybe the guy was a provacateur who knew who Stefan was, and wanted to set him up. Did any of you consider that? What if he shows up in front of the Canvassing Board and testifies under oath that he never told Stefan any such thing? Then what?
What if he presents proof of his eligibility to vote and says Stefan made it all up? Maybe Dean Logan sent him.
Better look unbder your beds. You never know.
Armanda @57
No, Stefan said no. What part of No don’t you understand?
Do you think somebody set Stefan up?
@57 Please…you couldn’t figure out in 0.2 seconds that October 13 to November 8 is less than 30 days?
I think Stefan set the whole thing up.
@60
But what if he rented his apartment on October 1st, went back to California and packed up his things, forward his mail and left California on the 7th and arrived at his new residence on the 13th. When asked he might say he moved here on the 13th, but what are the legal reqirements for establishing residency? I don’t know, but I do know its probably not the kind of thing you have enough information to figure out at the polling place. Particularly if you have a provisional judge who’s more interested in stopping people from voting then helping them figure things like this out. Here’s a guy who’s just moved here and actually goes out to vote in his first election probably not exactly clear on the rules and is not just told go away, but threatened with perjury. That’s a nice welcome wagon isn’t it.
Stefan may have been exactly right, but he handled it pretty badly.
What’s with all the overexcited right-wing nutjobs, who scream censorship when they don’t see their posts IMMEDIATELY. What a bunch of fucking morons,no wonder they worship of loon like sharkansky, who goes off all half-cocked and huffy at the slightest (and often even none) provocation!
Oh, MY god. I hit post and when the page refreshed my post isn’t displayed yet!!! It’s just another example of left-wing hypocrite censorship!!!! Get sharkansky or Vance on the line, someone needs to investigate this NOW!!!!
Stefan is infallible.
Haven’t you heard?
Hey, what’s this about a Democrat winning the Governor in GOP land (Virginia)?
Stefan..they need you there to intimidate voters…..
Unbelivable… First time I’ve been here. To think almost everyone here is trashing Stefan for FOLLOWING the LAW. He chose to NOT BREAK the LAW. (Unlike Logan and company) What a joke this place is. Goldy apparently advocates breaking the law. I wonder what other laws he supports breaking.
Stefan did the right thing.
Seems to me that Stefan did his job correctly. He was not denying the gentleman his right to cast a provisional ballot, and would have accepted the provisional ballot had the gentleman chosen to complete one.
The provisional ballot form (and the RCW and WAC governing these ballots) requires the election poll worker to note the relevant circumstances on the envelope when someone casts this type of ballot. For example, “didn’t get absentee in the mail”, “not sure of right precinct”, “says he registered, but not in poll book”, “Sotelo challenge pending, but says he owns house where registered”, “cat peed all over absentee ballot”, or “registered in California, moved to WA on 10/13/2005”.
Apparently, the Democrat hack who was chief inspector (Nancy Shelton) was upset that Stefan wanted to write down the relevant facts on the provisional ballot envelope. And Dean Logan doesn’t give a shit about eligibility, as shown by his office’s deliberate decision to count dozens or even hundreds of ineligible provisional ballots in the November 2004 election.
Cheap ASS filter! Well, I think Stefan was following the rules, and my more detailed explanation will show up eventually.
A few hours of training? Stefan has spent the better part of a year studying election laws and processes. He’s sifted through mountains of data and done sophisicated statistical analysis of the data and reported bulletproof results.
He knows more about election law than Sam Reed, Ron Sims, Dean Logan and Goldy The Lying Sack of Shit COMBINED ! ! ! ! !
Roger Rabbit:
Bad Rabbit, how could you have not trained your employee better? Should we count up the charges?
1) Practice of law without a license
For all of you arguing like this: “[the minnow] explains to him he is not eligible based on WA Law (LAW that is for you who like to dismiss KCE screw ups).” Guess what, the minnow is not licensed to practice law in the state of Washington, so if he advised anyone as to Washington law, he has broken the law.
2) Denial of civil rights, Due Process.
A person is determined to a certain amount of process by the government before being denied his rights. Part of that includes having a record that may be reviewed on appeal. Because the minnow prevented a person from voting by threatening him with perjury, instead of letting him vote by a provisional ballot, the voter got no process. Who knows if the minnow understood him correctly (after all, this is the board that had people promoting going after all people with “foreign sounding names” and challenging their eligibility to vote)or if the voter that just had his civil rights denied understood the minnows questions correctly. Maybe the victim had been flying back and forth since August from California. If so, having shown a desire to live in the state of Washington, he arguably was a resident of more than 30 days. These are questions for people above the minnows pay grade. Hence, why there is the ability to vote provisionally.
3) Denying civil rights through the authority of law:
The minnow was acting pursuant to the powers invested in him by the government. Like some sort of runaway inbred sheriff, he believes that he is the law. He should have followed his oath, had the voter vote provisionally, and allowed the canvassing board to do their work. Note, the minnow’s oath says he is not to accept a vote, not that he is supposed turn away the voter.
And that is just to start. Bad Rabbit!!! To allow some far right wingnut sully the election, and for nothing but political gain. Shame on you, silly Rabbit, and you call your self an election director. An error rate of less the 1% was bad, but forgivable compared to the GOP’s average error rate of 30%, but to let the minnow actively take away a citizen’s civil rights, with no due process, and while threatening criminal action, is unforgivable. You should have known better.
Hey Pope, what did you do? Quote actual RCW? Don’t you know that’s not allowed here? What’s wrong with you?
Amanda at 57
laughing my butt off; 27 days is almost like 30 days, that’s why we get provisionals..
i think you meant, the guy doesn’t qualify, but if we jam a provisional into the system, Dean will figure it out…..
voter fraud 101
Amanda at 62:
Exactly right. As you see, I cited a similar example. That is why it was not the minnow’s job to decide who votes or who doesn’t. That is for the canvassing board. As soon as the minnow prevented the person from voting, instead of having them vote provisional, he violated his oath and broke the law. He doesn’t know the facts, nor does he care.
That is why it is illegal to practice law without a license.
And strange, all you wing nuts keep citing the oath, which only requires that he not “accept” any votes that he thinks are wrong. This is why we have a provisional process. You keep forgetting the next clause: “and that we will make a true and perfect return of the said election and will in all things truly, impartially, and faithfully perform our duty respecting the same to the best of our judgment and abilities.”
But now we won’t have a true and perfect return because the minnow felt he was judge, jury and executioner.
Once again, the GOP, and their BIAW lackeys disgrace an election by trying to prevent people from voting.
Erik@12
“Trust me, no one is coming after the smokers”
Trust me, Hitler wasnt after the Jews, just the offensive ones…cough cough
LeftTurn@37
Im thinking that in reality that is good, leaves a balance. If we started killing, for instance the stupid ones (libs) we could not have the debates we now have!
I have never seen so many bloggers running SCARED in my life….All I can say is ” he he he “……The good lord has answered my prayers…..
Amanda@57
What month has 27 days?
What does the law say? YOU must be a resident of the State for 30 Days. If you knowingly vote and you are signing a piece of paper that states you will be committing a felony if you lie with your signature. WHat honest person when shown the rules in writing would want to commit a felony. Thats right Democrats vote early vote often. Right? The right of a voter is to vote at a polling place and can use a provisional ballot if they are registered voter. Let me see. This person could still vote in CA if he wanted to because he has the right to have his voice heard. Even though he moved here. No one is taking away his right to vote. What happened was a conversation showing what the law said and the voter decieded not to vote because it was the law. I applaud the citizen who once he understood the law did not want to become a felon. Remember signing that oath on the envelop can open you to felony charges. Or does it matter to you.
Sharkansky’s argument almost looks persuasive for a nanosecond. Look again, however. The statute sez:
[W]e will not give our consent to the receipt of any vote or ballot from any person, other than one whom we firmly believe to be entitled to vote at such election.
Someone smarter than I can review the case law, but it seems like SS’s interpretation of the statute is extremely narrow (and, as per usual, most self-serving). My read is that an election judge should not consent to outright fraud, NOT that the judge should appoint him/herself a finder of fact and arbiter of law.
Pursuant to the oath Stefan has ample opportunity to deny his “consent” (e.g., by lodging a formal objection or note with his supervisors). He does NOT have authority to harrangue voters and give directions.
Did you really read it Bartleby????
He merely informed the damn voter, not threatened him. The man already had the ballot filled out, and stefan told him the 30 day rule, after the man offered the information of moving here on Oct 13th. Jeezzz you people are acting like the judge and jury, let our FINE Election Director figure it out. Apparently the man was contacted by KCE and told to go vote at another polling place. So don’t get your panties in a bind, I am sure his vote was counted by now, and maybe even 2 or 3 times. That all depends how many polling places he stopped off at.
Frankly, I thought there was a LAW that stated you must be REGISTERED 30 DAYS PRIOR TO THE ELECTION, Not (registering on) Election DAY.
So much for federal law, Stefan. Laws are meaningless to the GOP. Nothing matters except winning, or stealing, an election at any cost, even if it means temporarily suspending the law.
When I worked for KC Elections, we were told to never, ever tell a voter they couldn’t vote. My job was to perform due diligence with the records at hand. If I couldn’t verify registration, I informed the voter of the option to vote provisionally.
Eveyone has the *right* to a provisional ballot. The final decision on the disposition of a ballot rests with the canvassing board. Not me, and certainly not the likes of Stefan.
We should be damn proud that our county upholds federal election laws. We’re not Florida or Ohio, and we won’t be, unless Stefan and his cohorts succeed in continuing the theft of elections through intimidation and complete disregard for the law.
SIMS AHEAD IN EARLY RETURNS!!!!
KING COUNTY
Ballots Cast/Registered Voters: 100000 / 1015738 9.85%
Precincts Counted/Total Precincts: 0 / 2573 0.00%
County Executive
Ron Sims DEM 100000 100.00%
David Irons REP 0 0.00%
Gentry Lange G 0 0.00%
Write-in 0 0.00%
http://www.metrokc.gov/electio.....sPage2.htm
Last I checked 27 was pretty close to 30, Comment by Amanda — 11/8/05 @ 6:22 pm
The best and brightest, the stars and future of this sad little state and the democrat party.
I only wish Stefan had been harrassing me. He’d have left the polling place with more than bruised feelings. I’ll bet he was picking on some elderly person or a Hispanic. He’s too politically “savvy” to pick on a black person– or maybe too scared…
Maybe the dumb shit voter should have had his friggin registration current and up to date. Did the voter want his ass wiped for him too? I’m so fed up with these morons who can’t even get their sorry asses registered in time or registered properly to vote. Pull your head out of your ass, take some responsibility and learn how to cast a a vote.
That idiot voter will get no mercy from me. Follow the rules and the process will suddenly become much easier for you, dumbshit.
By the way, did everybody notice the P-I’s circulation dropped another 9%? I’m loving it — those idiot liberals don’t understand that their communist wrag isn’t good for much except maybe lining your bird cage or wrapping fish.
Bye bye P-I!!
Josef for elections that only Republicans can win: No, Josef, I’m not going to allow you to drape yourself in the mantle of a simple man who only wants honest elections, because that is not what you are about. You are in favor of every sleazy trick that your side can get by with while sending nutburgers like Stefan out to man the polls and discourage people from voting. Shove it! You hypocrite.
Comment by chascarrillo — 11/8/05 @ 6:18 pm
I am not Stefan’s spokesperson, obviously.
But I can assure you he would catch them. He is a good man.
Comment by Amanda — 11/8/05 @ 6:22 pm
Okay, you too made the list.
Which graph is correct?
a) 27 < 30 b) 27 = 30 c) 27 > 30
Gee, I thought so. David Irons wins, I’m going to chew my King Size Twix and twix you all into the early hours of revelerie.
Comment by JDB — 11/8/05 @ 7:17 pm
You made the list.
BTW, Sharkansky wasn’t “the minnow”, he was a provisional judge and took an oath.
Reality check:
I presume you need your head examined.
Dearest Josephine @ 35, I am quite sure that all of your friends are in the closet (as you are) because your recently
‘adopted’ neocon party does not like your sexual preferences. LMAO@UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
If you’re on my list.
Well, the early returns are in.
No mandate, yet.
Most of David Irons, Jr.’s ballots are yet to be counted. They’re from the backcounty.
Comment by ChimpPatrol — 11/8/05 @ 8:32 pm
That had to do w/ comment #35 how? Here’s what I said then:
The minnow was a provisional judge, who violated his oath by interfering with a voter.
The fact that he was a judge at the provisional table ment there was no way he could violate his oath. Not a single vote would be accepted by the provisional table. They would all go to the canvasing board, where they would be accepted or denied. the minnow would have been upholding his oath if he had allowed a provisional ballot to be caste, and the canvasing board to decide. That was his job. The moment he started to harass a voter and decide on his own who could vote and who could not, he was no longer doing his job and he violated his oath.
Actually, there is a lawsuit on the way involving this.
And Goldenstain is gonna eat his fucking words.
Dearest JOSEPHINE, all of your’s and David’s friends are from the ‘Backwater’, no one in a normal state would associate with either of your mother beaters or ……..
HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS@84
Exept we arent playing horseshoes or tossing hand grenades….
I think some of these people are beneath me and have justed proved it.
Hopefully they will learn that http://honestelectionsproject.com is where they can help fire Dean Logan.
Dearest Josephine, you will have another chance in 2008. But by then you will probably be a switch hitter back to the Dem’s because your newly acquired neocon nuts will be out of power
JDB @72 Like some sort of runaway inbred sheriff, he believes that he is the law. He should have followed his oath, had the voter vote provisionally, and allowed the canvassing board to do their work.
What part of
RCW 29A.08.810
A person’s right to vote may be challenged at the polls only by a precinct judge or inspector.
do you not understand?
All of you that think the guy should have broken the law and signed his ballot knowing he wasn’t an eligible voter are dumbasses!! The law is the law. Plus Stefan said he could cast his ballot, but that it was illegal and he’d be breaking the law. He said he could do it. The guy decided not to break the law.
Goldstein, et al. please go rob a bank or rape someone. It’s OK. Against the law, but go ahead. It will all work out and besides you have rights.
Sharkansy is just a spoiled rotten rich kid that throughout his boring life had his own way. He cannot understand how HA is gaining viewers and his paltry site is hemoraghing viewers exponentially each month. His day’s have come and gone (all 3 of them) and he will be remembered as the sole author of the worlds most idiotic spread sheets. RIP uSP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ignore JustDumbBozo (JDB). He is what he is. Uninformed and stoopid. Just dumb and a bozo.
Chimp Pa-Troll, another lackey monkey for Sims.
I can see that Name calling is a must. Let me tell you I grew up in North Dakota. A place were an honest day of work was appreciated. We worked hard and never had to lock our houses or cars. We knew everyone by name and treated all fairly. I am a believer in honesty and integrity. IF you have neither you do not get my vote. I was in the military for 20 years and never could get my vote counted. Since I could never go to the polls and always out to sea. We could never get the mail in time to vote. Because it took up to 60 days to get mail from home. Now I vote at the polls and never trust the mail. I look at the mess in KC and the atmosphere of fear has not changed. ANy one who brings to light something bad about any department in KC is crucified. We will never have integrity in this county as long as those in power continue to oppress and terrorize those who are honest. Poor leadership can destroy even the most honest persons reputation with lies. Say a lie enough it sticks with the person. To prevent people from talking about problems just destroy those who do not follow their orders. That sounds like a Communist government. The communists just shot their opponents. Here they destroy ones reputation. If you want to be know as destroyer instead of builders that is your business. Hiding failures instead of fixing failures just means it will cost everyone more in the long run. As for this post KC is shown it still has no integrity. It is business as usually. That is why SIms appointed commission says the elections department is fixed.
Comment by David Anfinrud — 11/8/05 @ 9:33 pm
You a good man :-). Thanks for coming to help stand up to the evildoer Executive.
joey, after you bed time, take you meds
ALERT!!! ALERT!!! ALERT!!!!!
CLOWNstein is a Poll Watcher.
Unfortunately and predictably, CLOWNstein’s idea of PollWatching is to go into the Men’s Room and peak at the guy peeing in the urinal next to him!!
I like I-900 results!!!!!
I knew all along I’d have to fire Stefan for insubordination. Signed, Roger Rabbit a.k.a. Dean Logan*
* I’m not Dean Logan, but Stefan thinks Roger Rabbit is Dean Logan blogging on a King County computer, and it’s useless to argue with him because Stefan is impervious to all known facts, so let him think he got fired by Roger Rabbit, if it makes him happy.
Chris @ 82
“He merely informed the damn voter, not threatened him.”
First, I note this is SS’s account of things, but I’ll stipulate to the facts he presents for the sake of argument. Sounds like he did more than “merely inform” him, however, but rather advised him as to what to do.
“Jeezzz you people are acting like the judge and jury…”
No, that’s what SS was doing. The role of an elections officer in his capacity is not to make factual or legal interpretations for voters. If he believed some impropriety occurred, he had ample opportunity to make note of it for the record.
If SS’s tactics are anything like Lori Soleto’s (or the overheated bloviation we regularly see on [U]SP), I have no doubt that he was bullying and harranguing.
But fear not. I hope we’ll have an opportunity to hear the voter’s account at a challenge hearing. How likely do you think it is that it will verify SS’s account?
Likewise, I can’t wait to see if Ms. Soleto has the chutzpah to appear at hearing and face up to the scores of folks she’s tried to disenfranchise.
“#
I like I-900 results!!!!!
Comment by Puddybud — 11/8/05 @ 9:46 pm
LOL LOL LOL what a fucking present for you PuddyBud!!! Enjoy. It will not change a thing. Audit till you ass is raw and you will still be continually reamed until you dump the fascists!
I wonder if Stefan could be prosecuted for violated his poll judge’s oath? Well, regardless, one thing we know for certain is that a solemn oath sworn to and signed by Stefan (e.g., the poll judge’s oath, an oath to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, an oath to protect and defend the Constitution and faithfully perform the duties of an office, etc.) isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.
When Stefan takes an oath, it’s value is the same as a 3-dollar bill or Confederate currency.
Wooo Hoooo!!!!!
An oath subscribed to by Stefan has the same redemption value
as a promissory note signed Czar Nicholas or a promise by the Seattle Monorail board.
A solemn oath by Stefan is as useful as an ice cube maker in Antarctica.
Hey Stefan, if the judge in your PDA lawsuit against KCRE awards you monetary penalties and attorney fees, are you going to SHARE the loot with the generous benefactors who paid for your lawsuit, or keep all the money for yourself? Are you planning to commit perjury in the trial?
Stuckonstupiddon, you still don’t get it. Audits will provide the waste and largesse your side has been trying to hide for many, many, years.
I told David Irons to take the damn lie detector test. Unfortunately as I told John Carlson’s producer, if he doesn’t it’s his downfall.
Ukraine County: Vote early, Vote often….
RCW 29A.44.510
Oath of judges, form.
The following shall be the oath or affirmation of each judge:
“We, A B, do swear (or affirm) that we will as judges duly attend the ensuing election, during the continuance thereof, and faithfully assist the inspector in carrying on the same; that we will not give our consent to the receipt of any vote or ballot from any person, other than one whom we firmly believe to be entitled to vote at such election; and that we will make a true and perfect return of the said election and will in all things truly, impartially, and faithfully perform our duty respecting the same to the best of our judgment and abilities; and that we are not directly nor indirectly interested in any bet or wager on the result of this election.”
There you go – proof that Stefan did the right thing. Why do you guys insist on making Democrats look like Stalinists? We are Democrats not Democracy haters. Sheesh.
Kerry voting enviro:
The minnow violated his oath.
He was never in the position to “accept” a ballot, as he was at the provisional desk. Everyone that voted there had to have their provisional ballots reviewed by the canvassing board before being accepted.
Instead of following the procedure, he threatened a person and short circuit the procedure, thinking that he knows everything. However, he is not a lawyer (see any of his posts on the election challenge if you want proof, it is like reading a hydrophobe discuss deep sea diving), and had no right to act like one. He should have followed his oath, let the voter vote, and filed a challenge. That is what his oath and job demanded.
I served as a poll worker in King County this year. During the primary and today. Attended the 3 hour training. Have all the materials in front of me. Substituted as poll worker judge a few times (e.g. lunch breaks).
The poll worker guidebook is entirely unambigious about what to do in these situations. Under the section on provisional ballots, it states:
“Don’t Forget: You are never jutified in denying a voter the right to vote.”
This was drilled into us during training. Repeatedly. No where does the guidebook say the provisional judge has any input whatsoever on eligibility. The poll workers administrate the election. Ensure the integrity of the ballots and the process. That’s it.
Further, the guidebook details challenge ballots. The criteria is very clear. Challenge ballots are used by election officials (e.g. provisional ballot judge) when they have specific knowledge of someone’s ineligibility. (Heresy doesn’t qualify. It must be first-hand knowledge.)
Accepting Stefan Sharkansky’s account at face value, I can easily believe that he was doing what he thought best. However. That’s moot. Sharkansky’s personal beliefs do not supercede the rules. The rules are the rules for a reason. And Sharkansky didn’t follow the rules.
Elections are not supposed to be CalvinBall. It’s ironic that Sharkansky acted in exactly the manner in which he so detests in others.
(I can’t find a link for the poll worker guidebook. Sorry.)
Me @ 120
Substituted as poll worker judge a few times (e.g. lunch breaks).
Err. Should have said “Substituted as provision ballot judge…”. It’s been a very long day.
Anonymous:
I think you mean “hearsay,” not “heresy.” Although with your average wingnut, I can see them trying to deny your vote for heresy also.
So from the above we learn that:
Oaths are meaningless.
Laws are best left to the lawyers and judges.
Rules are for weenies.
We should all smile and just get along.
Mark:
Oath’s have meaning. That is why it is such a shame that the minnow decided to break his and prevent a voter from voting.
Laws should be follow. That is why you have questionable voters vote provisional and you review those votes with a canvassing board, not let some ideologue with an agenda prevent people from voting based upon incomplete information.
Rules should be followed or properly challanged, not changed and ignored by someone like the minnow just because he thinks he knows better than everyone else. As someone pointed out, this is not CalvinBall.
We don’t all have to smile and get along, but we must not act like petty tyrants and prevent people from voting.
@124 He didn’t prevent anyone from voting. The voter decided to leave when SS showed him right on the Voter’s oath where it says “I will have lived in Washington at this address for thirty days immediately before the next election at which I vote.”
Isn’t amazing everyone who says.. ‘if that happended to me I would have done this or that to him”
First of if you read what it says on the in box number 9
“I delclare that the facts of this voter registrationform are true:
I am a citizen I am not of the United States
I am not presently denied my civil rights as a resultof being convicted of a felony
I will haved lived in Washington at this address for thirty days immediately before the next electon before I vote
I will be at least eighteen years of age when I vote.”
Well that man said when moved here on October 15th and that clearly means he wasn’t eligible to vote in this election.
Yes he can in the next one legally but not this one.
But to have people look him up and tell him to vote at another polling station is a good idea.
They are telling hime to break the law.
Perhaps Nancy Shelton needs to read a part of the State Constution and have it applied to her.
Original text – Art. 6 Section 3 WHO DISQUALIFIED – All idiots, insane persons, and persons convicted of infamous crime unless restored to their civil rights are excluded from the elective franchise.
And before any of people slam me for my name it isn’t The Son of Mussinlini if it was it would read Il figlio di Il Duce. El hijo del is Spanish for The Son of El Duce and my old man my have been a crude, rude, lewd and kick off of Wally George’s Hot Seat back in the 80’s for being a “weirdo” but don’t hold me accountable for him.
What are you all arguing for? It’s ok for the dems to break the rules/laws as long as it suits them here in WA. They can take away your rights in King County and you support them. They can stuff the ballot box and you say, “It’s probably what the voters wanted anyway.” They’ve proven that even though there is proof that an election is in doubt they’ll fight like hell to keep their guy in power. This is a perfect example of how they work. “You’re ineligible to vote? Go ahead, vote. We’ll might catch it later.” “Don’t worry that it’s illegal, we don’t mind.”
What the hell do you think poll workers are there for? It’s to make things run smoothly and filter out the obvious chaf. Just because KingCo doesn’t want the ineligible voters weeded out doesn’t mean the law can be subverted.
You guys are pills.
“And so, KCRE’s wise policy is to have these decisions made by the actual professionals, with the training, experience . . .”
That’s real funny. The same wise professionals that botched the last election severely and that were found to have ~1,300 voters on the the rolls that shouldn’t have been there–found, by the way, by amateurs at the King County Republican Party. I think you might want to re-phrase that statement. There’s nothing wise about KCRE.
I was another of the poll workers at that site, and heard Stephan’s conversations with the voter and with the elections inspector who threatened him. I also heard that same elections inspector’s explanation of the incident to all of us on the crew after the polls closed. I can only conclude the the elections department has learned nothing from all the time and money that has been spent investigating last fall’s election, and analyzing the county’s election process. Clearly the aim is not to follow the state and federal election laws, but to get as many ballots as possible into the system, so that they can decide after the fact which ones they want to count. I volunteered as a poll worker to find out how the system works from a little inside experience, and it reminds me of the old joke about seeing how sausages are made. Quite a disgusting process to be witnessed by someone who would like to have some trust in an elections system.
Alan:
I could see how you would be disgusted after seeing someone break their oath and prevent a person from casting a ballot. But, since you are a smart person, I think you will agree that most of the people working the election followed their oaths, and allowed people to vote. And if there was any question, the people were given provisional ballots so that the truth could be found and it could be determined if they should vote or not.
Is it much better to have the system work than to have some petty tyrant prevent a person from voting because he thinks he knows better than anyone else? What a shame that the minnow decided to break his oath and interfere with an election instead of helping make this election sucessful.
For the peanut gallery…
Relevant passage from the oath:
…that we will not give our consent to the receipt of any vote or ballot from any person, other than one whom we firmly believe to be entitled to vote at such election;
Relevant passage from the poll worker guidebook:
Don’t Forget: You are never jutified in denying a voter the right to vote.
There is no conflict between these two statements. Everyone who is 18 years of age, a citizen, and not had their rights suspended (e.g. felon) is entitled to vote. Perhaps that vote will not be counted. That’s not for a poll worker to decide. Period.
Even if a poll worker has explicit knowledge about a person voting illegally (e.g. twice, voting for a family member, known felon), the voter may still cast a ballot in the form of a challenge ballot. Under no circumstances is a poll worker permitted to disallow, discourage, badger, or whatever, a person who wants to vote. Period.
These are the rules. They’re very clear. These rules are derived from federal and state law. For anyone who may have a problem with voting rights laws, I encourage you to take the matter up with your elected representative.
If you have concerns with the canvasing of provisional ballots, then I encourage you to observe the process. In person. The more eyeballs, the better.
Let’s see: The Shark was applying lettered law. Written as a Statute in undeniable form.
The Inspector, by telling him to break the known law was in fact committing a felony
(a group who forces someone to commit a crime, any crime, is Conspiracy to commit said crime: To wit, a felony).
The inspector should be imprisoned for violating ALL OF OUR CIVIL Rights by giving credibility to a fellow conspirator.
Smarterthananyofyou:
You might be smart, but your analysis is all wrong. No one told the minnow to break the law, just to do his job.
Anonymous got it right. The only person who violated anyone’s civil rights was the minnow. Oh well, there will be plenty of other GOP felons for him to keep company with.
Interesting that all the Stefan-apologists are reciting the oath. What about this part?
“We, A B, do swear (or affirm) that we will as judges duly attend the ensuing election, during the continuance thereof, and faithfully assist the inspector in carrying on the same;”
Did Stefan duly attend during the continuance of the election, and faithfully assist the inspector? Sounds like he quit on his obligation early, and defied the inspector.
Shall we call Norman Maleng? :)
RCW 29A.84.655
Repeaters — Unqualified persons — Officers conniving with.
Any precinct election officer who knowingly permits any voter to cast a second vote at any primary or general or special election, or knowingly permits any person not a qualified voter to vote at any primary or general or special election, is guilty of a class C felony punishable under RCW 9A.20.021.
Michael, you’re in good company. Others here have advocated what amounts to vigilante justice. That being poll workers acting as police, judge, and jury. And now you’ve helpfully contributed the notion that hearsay is now admissible evidence. Nice.