President Bush said something or other about energy and health care and about not failing in Iraq (I mean, any more than we’ve already failed there,) but the real speech last night was given by Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA). This was probably the best Democratic response I’ve ever seen. If Webb’s Senate tenure wasn’t only a few weeks long, people would be whispering about a Presidential run.
Twenty years ago, this was the type of standup guy who would have proudly called himself a Republican. In fact, he did.
‘Nuff said.
Yes, Daddy really liked Mr. Webb’s speech, until he realized he’s a Democrat now. Then Daddy got drunk.
Thanks for putting this up. I missed the whole thing and was hoping I’d be able to find it. (Like it won’t be posted at Cooks and Liars and half a dozen other places.)
Thanks for showing that.
HEY PUDDYBUD. JIM WEBB IS DELIVERING THE DEMOCRATIC RESPONSE.
DIDN’T YOUR RIGHT-WING BULLSHIT TRAIN YOU TO SPEW THAT HE WAS WRITING PEDOPHILIA IN HIS NOVELS?
OF COURSE IT DID. YOU DO EVERYTHING THE WINGNUT PROPAGANDA TELLS YOU TO DO.
OH SORRY! THAT WAS MWS!!!!
LMAO!!!
Jim Webb ROCKS
Smirky McFlightsuit showed that he is a born-again-AGAIN centrist.
Then he said that he really had no plan to fix what he bleeped up, so please trust him to somehow find the solution behind door #3, otherwise it’ll be even more bleeped up and he’ll have to say nucular nucular nucular about a DIFFERENT country.
A real confidence booster.
Jim Webb shows the difference between someone (Bush) who’s Daddy got him into the National Guard so he could snort coke, get drunk and shirk duty and someone who actually fought for this country, is a real warrior and who can actually speak the English language.
Support our troops, take their place!
More socialist, re-distribution, rhetoric. Two Americas, blah blah blah…
“A proper conclusion” What is it
“A better plan” yeah, right…
“Tone of cooperation” What tone? They mean, they are in charge now.
Politicians only spew phrases like “cooperation” and “non-partisan” when the other side is agreeing with them. And that is both sides.
And the problem with this war? The media. No one else, the media. Look at Viet Nam. The US Military won all egagements. After the Tet Offensive, which was resoundingly won by the US Military was declared a loss by Walter Cronkite!
“Tonight,.. we’d like to sum up our findings in Vietnam, an analysis that must be speculative, personal, subjective. Who won and who lost in the great Tet offensive against the cities? I’m not sure. The Vietcong did not win by a knockout, but neither did we. The referees of history may make it a draw.” This was interpreted to say the war was no longer winnable. One of the most irresponsible things ever said by the media.
We did, unfortunately, lose over 1500 troops. But the North Vietnamese lost over 45000. At the starting point, Khe Sahn, we lost a 205 troops. But they killed over 9000 North Vietnamese. This was a stalemate?
Yep, Walter, there are some people in hell that can’t wait to meet you.
The fringies are all aboard this train today. Go Fringies. Get it all out of your system.
Jim Webb delivered a good speech. He took what Harry Reid gave him and rewrote it because:
1) It was too long
2) It rambled
3) Didn’t answer what you all stand for
I realize the fringies will say prove it. The TV stations said it last night.
Now if George Bush had no plan why did Nancy Pelosi clap and stand up on 5 different occasions? Courtesy? She hates him and you all know it!
We watched it as a family. My wife wondered if the liberals took their cue from Nancy. I said of course. When the gallery was panned from the back during one of those applause moments no one clapped until she clapped. What does that say about “Simona Says Clap”. “Simona says don’t clap”.
Did you see John Edwards response later? While Roger Rabbit and others complained he was giving away free health care (your claim); John said he wasn’t. Look for the transcript.
#7 – How many times did you refer to Bill Rodham-Clinton this way?
Roger Rabid COMPLAINED about free helath care? isn’t that what they want? What Hillary! wants? I know John Edwards doesn’t want it. If we did, he couldn’t sue anyone…
@8: If Walter Cronkite had never uttered those words, what exactly would have changed? One hopes you will finally run out of blotter acid soon. It must be a bad batch.
13- Which is why people like you will never win.
And nothing would change your mindset, so yours was a wasted, rhetorical, question.
Winning hearts and minds? If the media had a heart, that is the one that needs to be won.
7 – Yet you tout Balack Obama? Yet you tout Hillary Clintong? Yet you tout Johnboy Edwards?
7- This is still bugging me. Yes, Webb has an impressive set of medals from his service in Viet Nam. But it’s YOUR actions and sacrifices that make you a hero. NOT how you compare to others. GAWD, you’re a loser.
Check this out:
http://www.vhemt.org/
It’s the “solution” we’ve all been looking for.
Yossarian says:
Check this out:
http://www.vhemt.org/
It’s the “solution” we’ve all been looking for.
“Crowded conditions and resource shortages will improve as we become less dense.”
………. will the cost of gasoline go down?
Perhaps the followers of the Religion of Global Warming should all get behind this movement, and help the rest of us out.
Me @ 23: anti-liberal says: What the hell was the peHOsi constantly CHEWING.
Good God, blinky (pulled those eyelids a tad too tight there last time doc!) looked like a cow munching cud. That lip wave thing she does with her constant blink tic…blech!
Surely with all that leaning she did to the RIGHT edge of her chair, she KNEW she was on camera.
~~ @ 30 GS says: She was chewing her cud, a Ghirardelli Chocolate bar.
~~ @ 35 Christine Jorgensen ( well and first noted for his/her gender confusion) was busily and inartfully mocking.
~~ @ 51 whl a representative and typical ASS
Watching the SOTU Speech on ABC… “ What was worth commenting on, however, was the contrast in blinks per minute between Pelosi and Cheney. While Pelosi clocked a good 25-30 blinks per minute, “
at 1/24/2007 3:58:20 AM, Frankie G said: Pelosi was obviously high. No one blinks that much unless they are tweaked.
at 1/24/2007 4:04:21 AM, Beans said: Pelosi”s false teeth seemed to be giving her fits… too bad it had to be on LIVE INTERNATIONAL TELEVISION…
at 1/24/2007 4:07:17 AM, ice eater said: Eye blinks – what did she have stuck between her teeth – he tongue was going like a snake in a bag!.
at 1/24/2007 4:12:37 AM, IM Me said: Pelosi also spent some time chewing on something besides blinking like a banshee.
at 1/24/2007 4:29:44 AM, Bukkiah said: Pelosi, probably the most obviously fake persona in American politics. She cannot stop blinking, she cannot say two sentences without stuttering and stammering. A few years back when she started doing the democratic responses to the STOU she was absolutely HORRIBLE. Not a public speaker and probably worse as a public figure. Now with more visibility it should be more plainly obvious. Don’t get me wrong Cheney is just good at behaving in the public eye, doesn’t mean his policies are any better, but at least the man doesn’t act like he’s in a 2nd grade stage play for the first time.
at 1/24/2007 4:31:05 AM, ed from fairfield said: Pelosi looked just like the witch that she is. Did anyone notice the way she drew her lips back and forth over those enormous horse-like teeth? I clocked it at 132 mph.
at 1/24/2007 4:33:23 AM, Jeff said: My girlfriend and I found it rather amusing to count the blinks as well. When Cheney would blink, I would yell GO! Then she would count Pelosi’s blinks until Cheney blinked again and I yelled STOP! We found the Pelosi:Cheney blink ratio to be about 12:1.
at 1/24/2007 4:34:59 AM, Jack D said: I dont know how other people saw Ms Pelosi, but she looked uneasy, and had something stuck in her teeth. I have never seen anyone work their mouth like she did.
at 1/24/2007 4:35:33 AM, Mudboot McDaniel said: Cheney drew Pelosi offside when he inserted a mint into his mouth following a suppressed cough. He always does that and pulls it off well. When she tried it, it looked awkward – like she got the sour apple flavor . . .
at 1/24/2007 4:42:54 AM, Charlie said: If Cheney was on standby power, Pelosi must have had a short somewhere, because in addition to excessive blinking she displyed a facial tic and some bizzare lip and tongue twitching.
at 1/24/2007 4:45:39 AM, cmac said: It wasn’t just the eye blinks with Pelosi – was she ever going to finish that mint (or whatever she was sucking on)? She looked like she was permanently puckered.
at 1/24/2007 5:00:11 AM, wawasee74 said: What the hell was she chewing on? Did she have a piece of gum tucked away inside her cheek like a hamster or was she biting the inside of her gums?
at 1/24/2007 5:20:43 AM, Patty said: Pelosi also chewed her cud constantly, too.
at 1/24/2007 5:22:05 AM, miller said: The more eye blinks the more dishonest. That is a proven.
at 1/24/2007 5:24:54 AM, KC said: blink blink blink blink blink blink All I know is, she almost gave me a seizure watching that last night.
at 1/24/2007 5:30:02 AM, Nad said: eye blinks were annyoing but the lip smacking from a too tight face lift was darn right annoying!
at 1/24/2007 5:30:41 AM, TONY said: pelosi looked like a mental patient.
at 1/24/2007 5:31:51 AM, cdb1430 said: I was watching the eye blinks myself….it was as if she was sending out morse codes to someone…very strange.
at 1/24/2007 5:51:53 AM, snorpht fingerpoot said: rapid blinking is a sigh of lying or insincerety
at 1/24/2007 5:56:12 AM, mike said: Nancy Pelosi looked like she was sucking on something the whole time. When she clapped her mouth went into all kinds of contortions.
at 1/24/2007 6:09:23 AM, AMON-RA said: You counted the blinks… talk to me about all the lip licking and lip pursing that she went thru, more than 7-10 a minute. The wonderfully lipsticked lips were soon reduced to a mere hint of color w all the lip wringing she went thru.
at 1/24/2007 6:11:44 AM, fordmilll said: Eye blinking and adjusting her dentures appeared to be Ms. Pelosi’s prime occupation of the evening. Hey, how about Teddy Kennedy’s stupor or was that a coma I saw.
at 1/24/2007 6:13:04 AM, Brooks said: Eyeblink rates increase with lying. Perhaps the high Pelosi count suggests she knows the Democrats’ positions are not grounded in reality. Just a thought.
at 1/24/2007 6:26:37 AM, Tom15000 said: Counting eye-blinks. 25-30 was a low estimate. At one point I counted 80 in one minute. She either has dry eyes or some serious psychological problem
at 1/24/2007 6:26:37 AM, Tom15000 said: Counting eye-blinks. 25-30 was a low estimate. At one point I counted 80 in one minute. She either has dry eyes or some serious psychological problem
at 1/24/2007 6:27:19 AM, crashemt said: Frequent blinking is a sign of lying or hiding something.
at 1/24/2007 6:30:48 AM, Tex said: I think Pelosi is either possessed or getting senile. Maybe her eyeliner was too heavy for her eyelids. It was challenging to watch.
at 1/24/2007 6:31:30 AM, SAM said: Am i the only one to see Palosi chewing on gum or candy? At times her facial expressions were hilarious
at 1/24/2007 6:31:41 AM, Dale Thompson said: Pelosi seemed very uncomfortable like she would rather have been any where else. She wiggled in her seat and made very bizarre movements and twist with her lips and mouth. Most of these in the chamber acted child-like. If they were students in a class room the teacher would have called them out for their rudeness, fidgety behavior and even sleeping. Washington needs to grow up and be adults.
at 1/24/2007 6:33:54 AM, Mr. Tranpar said: excessive blinking is a symptom an un healthy mind. its really ironic that the new Dem Leader exhibits clear symptoms of a mental illnes. One Nut to rule them all…
at 1/24/2007 6:37:52 AM, Matthew Loomis said: I was observing the same things! Pelosi’s eyeblinking energy could provide power for the entire state of New York.
at 1/24/2007 6:38:13 AM, James said: Yes, Madam Speaker Pelosi seemed to do a lot of blinking
at 1/24/2007 6:53:47 AM, William said: How about Nancy sucking her teeth all night?
at 1/24/2007 7:04:14 AM, John said: Meth is big in California ;)
at 1/24/2007 7:08:31 AM, texas said: More interesting fact would be how many times Pelosi cleaned her teeth with her tongue. She could not keep her mouth still.
at 1/24/2007 7:10:42 AM, Freddy said: I had Pelosi’s blink rate at more like 50-60 per minute. She also licks her teeth when she disagrees with something. Body language says more than words ever can, IMHO.
at 1/24/2007 7:15:42 AM, sitarro said: Pelosi has probably lost her tear duct work with all of the face lifts she has had done. She looks like some kind of horror show character. Wasn’t she wearing an ear piece to get instructions on when to applaud, sit, stand, rollover……good dog.
at 1/24/2007 7:17:51 AM, Kimmie said: I couldn’t concentrate on what W was saying because of the furious eye blinking by Pelosi….what the heck is wrong with her?
at 1/24/2007 7:19:06 AM, Hooky said: I kept asking myself,”what in heck is wrong with her,first the teeth baring,then the sucking,then the blinking”, it would be very distracting to say the least, if one were to have a long conversation with her if she does that all the time.
at 1/24/2007 7:19:45 AM, Mary said: The eye blinks do indicate something in psychology. As for the rest of Pelosi’s behavior: she was obviously barely paying attention, and was rudely still finishing her supper as she sat there. If she were a Republican, the pics and jokes would have been all over the nightly comics: “Umm, that corn on the cob was good!”
AUNTIE-LIBERAL @ 19 IS EXHIBITING THAT RIGHT-WING CIRCLE JERK BEHAVIOR.
IT’S A GROUP FORM OF WINGNUT TOURETTE’S SYNDROME.
re 8: If the media declaring victory for one side or the other was all there was to winning a war, we could dispense with war and just declare ourselves perpetual winners.
Grow up!
You think the Viet Cong won because Walter Cronkite declared victory for them? I could get you institutionalized for talking like that.
19- WOw! What did I miss?
Sorry, I had to go fill up the gas tank of my truck. Twice.
Reckless said @9:
“I realize the fringies will say prove it. The TV stations said it last night”
Well, who could doubt it if the “TV stations” said it was true. (I didn’t hear that on MSNBC, btw.)
You sure you weren’t watching the Fox Nothing Channel?
re 19: Did you see Cheney chuckling while Bush was talking about conserving gas and reducing emmissions.
The President of the United States gave a major speech last night, and all Auntie Liberal wants to talk about is how many times Nancy Pelosi blinked. I suppose that tells us all we need to know about how Auntie and his fellow Republicans think things went last night.
Goldy, you are in serious error @25. You are using the word ‘think’ in reference to Republicans.
Webb hit this one outa the park!
It’s too bad Jim Webb is such a dry speaker or the speach would have made people stick around and actually watch it live.
Oh please, take a trot around the blogoshere… sanfrangrannan made herself a laughing stock… and some are diagnosing Tourette’s… watch for it to be the next infliction cause of the moment for feeling party.
~~
Wizbang http://wizbangblog.com/
Nancy Pelosi Might Need a Checkup
So I noticed a link on Drudge this morning that Nancy Pelosi blinked an incredible 25-30 blinks per minute during the SOTU last night. Being the compassionate guy I am, I googled it up to see if it might be a symptom of a medical condition. The 3rd google link told me more:
Symptoms
A facial tic such as mouth twitching or rapid eye blinking is the commonest first symptom to be identified.
You might say I wasn’t completely surprised.
By: Paul
~~
Ex-Donkey Blog linked with Does Nancy Pelosi Have Tourette’s? http://ex-donkey.mu.nu/archives/213198.php
~~
Wednesday, January 24, 2007
My Amusement with the SOTU Speech
http://wwwwakeupamericans-spre.....peech.html
What could be more amusing than watching Nancy Pelosi’s expressions as she is forced to stand and applaud on a few occasions during the President’s State of the Union Address…..I REALLY hope someone posts video of certain moments. (Hint Hint Hot Air!!!!)
~~
[And what was up with kerry (besides his hair..that stiff MUST have stock in volumizer and spray)… he RAN out of the chamber like there might be a prize for the 1st guy out… I think I saw him crying.
~~
As for PRESIDENT Bush, his speech should have perpetuated your wet dreams, liberals:
Really, I mean it. Check out these initiatives from Bush:
Setting a mandatory fuels standard to require 35 billion gallons of renewable and alternative fuels by 2017 – whether they are ready or not, whether they work or not and whether or not you want them.
Raising the so-called CAFE standards (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) for cars and light trucks. In other words, mandate better and better fuel economy no matter how many lives it cost – and make no mistake, it always costs lives on the highway.
Fight “global warming” by cutting the growth of carbon dioxide emissions in automobiles over the next 10 years.
Federal grants to states to provide medical insurance to everyone – presumably Bush’s illegal alien amigos as well.
A temporary foreign worker program because, for heaven’s sake, we can never have enough illegal aliens in our midst.
$1.2 billion more to fight malaria in Africa – not with DDT, which works, but with eco-friendly mosquito nets!
More foreign aid in general.
Blah-blah-blah-blah… wet dream time for liberals and they STILL complain.
Will you ever be honest enough to admit that the only reason you succumb to your healthy case of BDS is that he has that R after his name instead of D?
Dumb question.
The republicant’s continue to get their nuts crushed, it was evident last night. Victory will soon be ours, we cannot fail…
Kerry to bow out of ’08 presidential race
boo fucking hoo hoo… will you morons remove you Kerry stickers NOW??
me @ 29 (And what was up with kerry (besides his hair..that stiff MUST have stock in volumizer and spray)… he RAN out of the chamber like there might be a prize for the 1st guy out… I think I saw him crying.
Oh c’mon Goldy — Webb isn’t an electrifying speaker. But he came across as very level headed — and he’s a straight-talker. His analogy to 19th century robber barons was spot-on, because that’s exactly what the Republicans want to do … take us back to a 19th-century economy in which 100 people own the whole country and workers have no rights and a medieval standard of living. Evil bastards.
29 Pelosi was probably struggling to stay awake through 49 minutes of tedious, predictable bullshit.
It’s also obvious that Auntie Lib’s heeeeeeero didn’t even manage to hold him in rapt attention.
29.
If the facial expressions on persons sitting behind the president are the topic of conversation, how about Dick Cheney’s smirks and giggles throughout Bushie’s environmental pitch? The old cadaver really came out of his slumber then. “These are the good jokes, Mr. President” was the message behind the Dick’s shit-eating grins.
Like Jim Webb said, the Sociopath-in-Chief has babbled about energy independence in every one of his SOU speeches. I doubt he’ll follow through this time any better than in times past.
I see that auntie is at it again. Wonder when this moe-ron is going to get it? Every instance he cites is a Wingnut page or source. NONE of the credible news sources have mentioned his topic.
Why is that?
Because it is not a topic.
Perhaps when he is done fucking his family members down at the trailer park, he will take the time to do some self-introspection.
Who am I kidding… Nevermind.
21- I am sure you meant: perpetual losers. That IS what you want to hear, afterall…
Harry Tuttle @ 35:
Cheney was giggling when Bush talked about reducing emissions because he was passing gas the entire time – which also explains Speaker Pelosi’s blinking, I’m sure.
me @ 31: Kerry to bow out of ‘08 presidential race
boo fucking hoo hoo… will you morons remove you Kerry stickers NOW??
me @ 29 (And what was up with kerry (besides his hair..that stiff MUST have stock in volumizer and spray)… he RAN out of the chamber
kerry on Vietnam: CUT and RUN
kerry on Iraq: CUT and RUN
kerry on camera SOTU: CUT and RUN
kerry on campaign fortitude/courage: CUT and RUN
Obviously Ambigious
(OK, is ‘ambiguous’ mis-spelled on purpose or because the poster belongs on the short bus?)
Anyway, there isn’t anything ambiguous about it:
Obviously ‘Ambigious” = Obviously, Unambiguously Stupid
aww little leftjew… kiss your auntie, then call mommy back so you can hide behind her wide skirt.
ps: how’s that pigfucking going, precious?
Auntie,
Kerry is OLD NEWS. Nobody cares anymore. Do try to keep up, mmmkay?
OA at 8: are you still slinging that Media-lost-Vietnam bullshit? What a load of crap.
We couldn’t win in Vietnam 1964~75 for the same reason the British couldn’t win in America 1775~84. If the locals are willing and able to keep fighting far longer than the foreign occupiers are, the locals win. Vietnam was prepared to keep fighting, on one level or another,for the next century. Us? not so much.
And you keep forgetting that although we thought we were fighting international communism in Vietnam, in actuality we were in the middle of a civil war between the Buddist peasant majority and the minority Catholic administrative and merchant elite which controlled the cities. The S. Vietnamese government was not democratically elected, and it was thoroughly corrupt from the top down, and it had no support among the vast majority of the S. Vietnamese people.
And arguing over who won the Tet offensive is rididulous. Sure, we ultimately took back all the area we previously controlled after some hard fighting, and the Viet Cong were spent as a fighting force after that. But the NVA took up the slack until new Viet Cong cadres could be assembled and trained. And the ancient capital of Hue was reduced to rubble, with most of its pro-Saigon citizens executed by the Viet Cong, so the Viet Cong had won the most important battle: they showed the Vietnamese that the Americans can’t protect them, so they had best cooperate with the Viet Cong, or at least remain neutral.
The more I study Vietnam, the more I am convinced that the war was lost by 1965. All our attempts to solve the problem after that only made it worse. The plan to remove villagers from their ancient villages and fields and collect them into defensable “home villages” only disrupted an ancient society, creating unemployed refugees who were subject to predation by corrupt government officials. Organize and equip a “home guard” against Viet Cong attacks? Sure, except a good number of those “home guard” were peasants by day and Viet Cong by night, and all we did was equip them with decent weapons and explosives and train them in our tactics and proceedures. And lets not get into the series of U.S. annointed “strong-men” who posed as S. Vietnamese government officials, until each was toppled in turn by an internal coup. And the best ARVN divisions were not in the field fighting the Viet Cong – they were stationed at strategic points inside and outside Saigon, to protect the capital against – other ARVN divisions, who’s commanders might be tempted to mount yet another coup.
Everything that happened after 1965, including the “surge” into Cambodia and Laos in 1970, did nothing to change the outcome of the war. All the media did was reveal that the government didn’t know what it was doing – it was trying to fight WWII again in the Vietnamese hinterlands, while the real war was a civil war by nationalist Vietnamese against the former French colonial lackeys. We got stuck in the middle. As one former Viet Cong officer said after the war, “Before, we didn’t know for sure who was our friend and who was our enemy. Then the Americans arrived. Everyone knew it was safe to shoot them”.
Tlazolteotl: Do try to keep up, mmmkay?
mmmkay?
mmmkay?
Is that like the new like valley girl like talk???
Kerry won’t run for president in ’08
By Rick Klein, Globe Staff | January 24, 2007
(that’s like, today, mmmkay?)
it was posted at about 10am
(that’s like, 45 minutes ago, mmmkay?)
Tlazolteotl is that Klingon for MORON?
mmmkay?
I agree with Pelosi that we shouldn’t try to impeach Bush. At least not until we impeach Cheney first. Othewise, its just a waste of time.
Truth in advertising, albeit INADVERTENT truth in advertising:
Tlazolteotl (Nahuatl“Filth Deity”) also called Ixcuina or Tlaelquani Aztec goddess who represented sexual impurity and sinful behaviour. She was probably introduced to the Aztecs from the gulf lowlands of Huaxteca. Tlazoltéotl was an important and complex earth-mother goddess. She was known in four guises, associated with different stages of life. As a young woman, she was a carefree temptress. In her second form, she was the destructive goddess of gambling and uncertainty. In middle age, she was able to absorb human wrongdoing. In her final manifestation, she was a terrifying hag preying on youths. She was thought to provoke carnal lust and illicit sexual activity, but she could also grant absolution and remove corruption from the world by eating sexual filth.
I often wonder if you liberals know how truly funny (if inadvertently funny) you are. What make’s it even better is your holier-than-thou smug sactimony and seriousness.
Auntie, isn’t it time to go collect your unemployment check?
My sources tell me & SOME people say that Speaker Pelosi got a pair of shitty contact lenses & didn’t want to upstage the Pretendisent by popping them out.
But it worked out pretty well anyway. All the wingnutz, GOoPerz, Konservative Kristian KocKksucKers, rethuglicanz, republicuntz, KorporoKratz & Spawn of Satan wasted their time counting her eye blinks instead of listening to Dear Leader’s senseless blather.
It was easy to notice this morning that the lame stream media was all over the place on their talking points & fucked up the God’s Only Party-line because they failed to hear what the Texas Bu$h Pussy told them. Blink-blink! Blink-blink!
And it sure seemed as if Ronnie RayGunz Secretary of the Navy, Senator Jim Webb, had a clear view of the situation in the Oval Office. Looks like a no-brainer.
Now, some other people say that Speaker Pelosi was actually blinking out Morse-coded messages to the liberal elitists who will soon rise up & smite Bu$hInc with impeachment proceedings. Some people also say that you had to have the secret decoder ring issued by Ambassador Joe Wilson & his not-a-secret-agent wife, Valerie Plame, in order to get the messages Speaker Pelosi was blinking out.
rhp6033@43 I generally agree with your analysis, with several important addenda: Ho Chih Minh was fighting the typical communist inspired anti-colonial, agrarian reform war for thirty years before we entered into the conflict directly.
His was a war ‘on the cheap’ and didn’t involve a lot of additional war material from outside. When the Japanese entered the fray, they were just another Colonial power to be fought.
What is striking is the fact that the French were using both old and new lendlease war material in their fight. Looking at pictures of the men coming out of Dien Bien Phu, you will be struck by the american battle gear, helmets and uniforms. Also, you will hear complaints about the ‘faults’ of the 105mm howitzers in comparison to the 88’s. . .
Once we entered directly into the conflict, Ho became a client of both the Soviets and the Chicoms. China has pursued the same foreign policy for well over a thousand years. . .maintaining buffers of weak vassal states around the center.
We conducted a lot of ‘sweep and destroy’ missions and a lot of phoney body count accounting, but very little true ‘clear and hold’ type operations.I am convinced that if we had, we would have faced Red Chinese Regulars in multiple company strength, just as we did in Korea, whether Ho or Giap wanted them. . .
China is simply not prepared to lose a land war in Asia. . .at any cost. This is a truth Truman realized, and MacArthur did not. They also are not prepared to accept strong independent neighbors. I would call attention the rather short, brutal border war between Red China Viet Nam.
This should highlight something our current administration is not using fully to its advantage: Kim Jung-Il is in greater danger from Peiping than Washington D.C. . . . . .
8 Obviously Ambigious
That’s a good one. Tet was significant and changed the public perception of the Vietnam War because after years of our lying governmental sacks of shit telling us how swimmingly the war was going and how the “enemy” no longer had the means or will to continue, the “enemy” (much like today, the people whose nation we had invaded and occupied) mounted well-armed, well-timed, disciplined, simultaneous attacks from one end of Vietnam to the other.
Tet made it clear that:
a) The government had been lying to us all along.
b) The Vietnamese were not going to give up EVER, no matter how many “engagements” we “won.”
c) Amercia didn’t want to lose 55,000 sons and daughters for the lost cause of empire. Still true today.
But we had only 500,000 troops there and they had 37 million Vietnamese (1965 – United States Census International Programs Center). How long do you think that kind of thing flies?
There are 27 million Iraqis…we have 140,000 troops there.
Tree Frog Farmer at 49: “His was a war ‘on the cheap’ and didn’t involve a lot of additional war material from outside.”
Agreed. In the early 1960’s, N. Vietnam was still having considerable economic difficulties due to its switching to a socialist economy. Ho Chi Minh told the Viet Cong to lay quiet for the next several years, because they couldn’t expect to get any help from the North. That’s the period of time when newsreal footage used to show government troops capturing “arms factories”, where the Viet Cong were trying to construct homemade shotguns, mines, etc.
But even then the S. Vietnamese regime was so shaky, and Buddist monks were setting themselves on fire on the streets of Saigon to protest their treatment by the government, that the Viet Cong threatened to overthrow the government, despite the lack of significant outside help. Kennedy sent in advisors, but they were frustrated that when they trapped Viet Cong units between several ARVN units, the Viet Cong always seemed to “dissapear”. What the Americans didn’t know then was that the ARVN officers weren’t sure which side was going to prevail, or how long the Americans were going to stick around. So they hedged their bets by keeping in contact with Viet Cong commanders, and always leaving them a back door through which to escape. The Viet Cong would reciprocate by giving advance warning of their attacks, in such a way that only U.S. troops would be hit. (It got much nastier later in the war). Anyway, the “unreliability” of the ARVN led to the eventual U.S. buildup, substituting our own troops for ARVN troops in combat.
Funny, Bush & Co. are so convinced that the U.S. would have won in Vietnam if only the Democrats and the “Media” had let them, that they never bothered to learn these lessons. They assume it is left-wing propoganda, and discount it without ever considering it. But if they had bothered to study the war more closely, perhaps they would have understood that there was a good chance the Afgan militias would allow Osama Bin Laden to escape from a back door in Afganistan.
Mc Cain caught sleepin’ during SOTU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....#038;eurl=
George W. Bush proved himself to be a flaccid Commander-in-Chief last night.
Without a doubt he’s proved he has NO PLAN for victory in Iraq or the War on Terror.
He’s a failed president and in dereliction of duty of his military responsibilities as POTUS.
The problem is that he’s using our citizens lives as cannon fodder for his failed ideological policies.
Almost as bad, they’re as still some dipshits who agree with him. Pick any one of the moron conservative posters on this thread and you’ll quickly see my point.
George W. Bush will go down in history as the president who led America to military defeat in Iraq, and quite possibly the War On Terror.
RHP6033 YOU SAID IT THE MORE I STUDIED.THATS YOUR PROBLEM YOUR A LOSER AND TELL ME ASSWIPE HOW YOUR FUCKIN IDOL JOHN KERRY GETS 3 PURPLE HEARTS AND DOES NOT SPEND ONE DAY IN SICK BAY THEN HE CUTS AND RUNS AFTER 3 MO IN COUNTRY AND HAS BEEN CUT AND RUNNING THE REST OF HIS LIFE THOSE ARE YOUR HEROS LOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSERS.
GBS @53 YOUR STILL A PISSANT.TELL THE DAUGHTER YET ABOUT YOUR GREAT NAVY CARRER.LOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSER
Just in case you missed last time, YO.
Any time you have something to say about my daughter be man enough, have the courage, the fortitude to say it to my face. Pussy.
IF, and that’s a big IF, your testicles ever drop from your stomach and you want to say something to my face, just let me know. I will make it sooooooo God Damned easy for you to find me, it’ll make your head spin.
Ass hole.
Will you ever be honest enough to admit
THAT YOU LIVE OFF THE RIGHT WING BULLSHIT AUNTIE-LIBERAL?
LOT OF GOOD IT DID YOU LAST NOV 7.
A SHOUTOUT TO MY WINGNUT BRO YO:
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSER!
Yo at 54 and 55 takes stupidity to a new level. He obviously avoids facts, because he hasn’t got any. He wouldn’t know a fact if it bit him on the rear end. Obviously, he hasn’t studied a bit in his life. He appears to be age 13 or under, and giggles everytime he types an “S”.
Be quiet, child. The grownups are talking.
40- good one, tazertot
Damn! I can call it!
ME @ 31 01/24/2007 at 10:02 am
Kerry to bow out of ‘08 presidential race
boo fucking hoo hoo… will you morons remove you Kerry stickers NOW??
me @ 29 (And what was up with kerry (besides his hair..that stiff MUST have stock in volumizer and spray)… he RAN out of the chamber like there might be a prize for the 1st guy out… I think I saw him crying.
Kerry rules out joining presidential race
LMAO!!!
Bye bye johnny boy! Kiss your Auntie goodnight and get the fuck off the stage!
boo fucking hoo hoo… will you morons remove you Kerry stickers NOW??
rhp6033@51 Yeah, you could say it got nastier later. . .I have several friends, ARVN officers, who were ‘allowed’ to go through the re-education camps. . . .Some,kept at the Soccer Stadium were not ‘allowed’. . . .
And yet, the younger generation is helping to ‘knit up the ravelled sleeve of care’ by going back as tourists, to see ‘the old folks’, to get grounded, and learn the language better. They sort of feel detached from the hardline old vets who march against the current regime.
It was the nastiest of all possible wars. . .a fratricidal
‘civil’ war. We haven’t completely healed from our own after
150 years. I hope they do better than that. . .
@61continued I like the Vietnamese people. They are remarkable, and it saddens me to realize they were caught up in, and chewed up by forces as ugly as RealPolitik.
Our purposes, the purposes of the Chinese Communists, the purposes of the French Colonialists. . .none of them served the average Viet.
Tree Frog Farmer at 61: Yea, it did get very nasty later on. I inserted that comment in my post after I typed it, because I realized my comments about cooperation between ARVN and Viet Cong officers might have left the wrong impression. I hope it was apparant that my added comment was an understatement, at best.
By 1967 the sides were pretty well set, and there wasn’t much latitude given to the other side. The assassinations at Hue during the Tet Offensive were just an example. And the Saigon regime wasn’t so innocent, either. Of course, there was still the problem of determing *which* side someone was really on, of course.
I’ve worked with a couple of Vietnamese. They were younger, post-war children of refugees. They enjoy going back to Vietnam on annual trips to visit relatives. For them, the war is just some ancient stories told by the old folks. I wasn’t there during the war myself, I was a couple of years too young. But it was, in its own way, the background music of my youth.