So much for bipartisanship.
There’s a push poll in the fields in WA state, and apparently this one’s a doozy, filled with all types of lies and distortions about Governor Gregoire and the Democratic legislature. According to the Caller ID the poll is originating from the Fort Collins, CO call center of Research Data Designs (RDD), a Portland, OR based market research firm that has worked with WA state Republicans in the past.
In October of 2006, RDD conducted a push poll on behalf of then state Senator Luke Esser, who was in the midst of getting his ass kicked by Democrat Rodney Tom in the 48th Legislative District. Now, just days after Esser takes the reins as state GOP chair, RDD is back in WA trashing Democrats in general. Coincidence?
When one angry recipient asked who was sponsoring the survey the caller claimed it was the “Lotto Office of Massachusetts.” Of course that’s bullshit.
I think I may have gotten this call myself this afternoon, but hung up before I realized what it was. Damn. So if you get this push poll, please take copious notes, or record it if you can, and forward me the details. I’m eager to learn more about this poll… as is Charles McIntyre, General Counsel of the Massachusetts State Lottery Commission:
I am in receipt of an email from the Executive Director of the Mass Lottery in which you express your concerns about the “Lotto Office in Massachusetts” engaging in polling of opinions in the Seattle area. I can assure that the Massachusetts State Lottery is not engaged in opinion polling in your area. We are also not aware of any firm or company that may be involved in this type of conduct. We certainly would be interested in any additional information that you could provide, given that we highly value our good public image.
We’ve come to expect dirty tricks like this during the election season, but now it appears that WA Republicans have embraced perpetual campaigning that is just as nasty — and clumsy — as any campaign they’ve run in the past. Welcome to political hardball, Luke Esser style.
Goldy, do you mean that some people expected Daddy to govern after he got coronated? Daddy told me: Republicans don’t govern; we rule. It’s th’ Divine Right of the Divine Right. Daddy hadn’t had much to drink yet, neither!
What kind of lies and distortions? Are they claiming that Christine Gregoire is bought and paid for by the “Payday Loan” industry?
Are you surprised? The only way the dog-gamned Republicans can win is by smear and steal. With Hillary and Joe and Obama and John and Dennis and Mitt and Tom and Mike and on and on and on out there on the beat in January,2006, why is anybody surprised at anything? These people are being paid to do their jobs – not run for office year after year after year.
It is disgusting. Our whole politic process is disgusting.
You are disgusting, Mr. Pope.
The the Republican machine is especially disgusting. They will attempt to win at any cost. They have zero morals, principles or ethics. And their misbegotten values are arrogance, prejudice and ignorance.
CAN’T THESE REPUBLICAN FOOLS DO ANYTHING RIGHT?
OF COURSE I ANSWERED MY OWN QUESTION. THEY DO EVERYTHING EXTREME RIGHT WING!
WHAT A BUNCH OF JACKASSES!
Just keep asking yourself, over and over: Why don’t Republicans run on issues? The answer, of course, is that if voters understand what Republicans really stand for, no Republican would get elected to anything. Ever.
Bush Low-Balled ‘Surge’ Figures
The 21,500 additional troops Bush said he’s sending to Iraq only counts COMBAT troops and does NOT include the additional support troops the “surge” will require — which the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates will bring the actual number to between 35,000 and 48,000. The “surge” also will cost more than Bush said, for the same reason — he excluded the costs of the support troops he didn’t count.
In a letter dated February 1, 2007, the director of the CBO wrote to Rep. John Spratt, House Budget Committee Chair:
” … Thus far, the Department of Defense (DoD) has identified only combat units for deployment. However, U.S. military operations also require substantial support forces, including personnel to staff headquarters, serve as military police, and provide communciations, contracting, engineering, intelligence, medical, and other services. Over the past few years, DoD’s practice has been to deploy a total of about 9,500 personnel per combat brigade to the Iraq theater, including about 4,000 combat troops and about 5,500 supporting troops.
” … CBO expects that, even if the additional brigades required fewer support units than historical practice suggests, those units would still represent a significant additional number of military personnel.
” … CBO developed its estimates on the basis of two alternative assumptions. In one scenario, CBO assumed that additional support troops would be deployed in the same proportion to combat troops that currently exists in Iraq. That approach would require about 28,000 support troops in addition to the 20,000 combat troops — a total of 48,000.
“CBA also presents an alternative scenario that would include a smaller number of support personnel — about 3,000 per combat brigade — totaling about 15,000 support personnel and bringing the total additional forces to about 35,000.”
CBO estimated “surge” costs would “range from $9 billion to $13 billion for a four-month deployment and from $20 billion to $27 billon for a 12-month deployment, depending upon the total number of troops deployed[.]”
To read the entire letter, see http://tinyurl.com/3dnj7f
and CANNOT WORK.
Two things work against conservatives to guarantee they will fail at everything they do. First, their world-view is wrong, and leads them to make bad decisions — every time. And second, the culture of the conservatives makes it impossible for the conservative movement to correct its mistakes or excesses from within — because that culture refuses to acknowledge truth, admit error, or accept correction.
In sum, conservatives are an unmitigated disaster, and the last eight years have taught any and all Americans who are not already brain-dead that conservative ideology does not work and will never work in the real world.
Now if we can just figure out a way to wrest control of the voting process away from the Republican cheats and crooks, the GOP will never be in power again.
The only time conservative politicians ever have any successes is when they depart from their conservative ideology and think like liberals … as, for example, Texas Gov. Rick Perry is doing right now.
Roger,
Go to bed. Mrs Rabbit is not going to be happy with you.
Normally this would upset me, but:
a) It’s no longer surprising that these are the lowest cowards on the planet – after all, they’re right wingers.
b) This shit has stopped working for them. They did more Karl Rove-like bullshit than ever in November and what did it get them? One of the largest political defeats in US history. To this day, the depths of their defeat still moves me. They lost the House AND the Senate on the federal level and ended up with a net loss of nine Governors and 13 State Legislatures.
c) Dems are finally starting to fight back against this shit with similar tactics. I know a group that’s getting ready to start one of these against Dino Rossi (you know, the GOP candidate who doesn’t know the difference between a real estate agent and a real estate broker?).
DOT high level engineers screwed up bus ramps in Kirkland and now DOT must pay millions to fix redo the bus ramps which are falling apart because they don’t have enough reinforcing steel in them. They won’t be redone for months……
Who pays these fools and when are they going to be held accountable for their many screwups?
Goldy,
Please be prepared to expose and condemn the *exact same kind of thing* when the Dems do it.
Without such a promise (or follow-through), your comments are irrelevant.
The point is here *both parties* do stupid stuff like this.
Most jingoists are physical cowards, so you always gotta look for the knife in the back. Since they really only believe in the almighty dollar {and stealing your labor) the walls will all come down — eventually.
re 14: But we’re not paid to do it. We’re volunteers. And we promise to stop telling the truth about Republicans as soon as they stop lying about us.
You can send the Republicans emails here:
comments@wsrp.org
and RDD’s email is:
info@rdd.info
I can’t speak for Goldy, but can for myself and a lot of other Democrats.
Yes, I can and do condemn this sort of thing when it is done by Democrats. During the last election, we saw a number of posts saying that we needed to use the same dirty tactics that the Republicans were using, and a number of posters, yours truly included, not only condemned those tactics but went further stating that we wouldn’t support any candidate that used them.
I took a bit of heat from some fellow Democrats for that position, but I still hold that in order to make long-term gains, we need to run honest campaigns. We’ll lose a few that way, but win far more over the long run.
Even when they were being used in this are (26th district) by Republicans, the Democrats here made a commitment to run a clean campaign, and did so. The Republicans brought out everything that the “Speakers Roundtable” could think up.
And we whupped ’em good!
(that should have read “in this area” – spell checkers are only as smart as the person using them.)
One more note. The 26th District is not exactly a bastion of the left. This is the district that sent Lois McMahan to the State House of Representatives.
Whoa, a bunch of hypocrites complaining of perceived “dirty politics” heehehe You dems are incredible. No wonder that even after all the voter fraud by the left you still lose election after election. Enjoy your island in the sun, in 2008 the voters will wise up and put liberals in their rightful place.
Thankfully, John represents the republican wing, not the Democratic wing of the Democratic party. I say we need to fight fire with fire. John Kerry lost because he didn’t fight back. That lesson should not be lost on real Dems. I believe we should use every Rove tactic in retaliation against the Publicans that we can. Otherwise, they’ll just steal the next election too.
16 — history doesn’t show that’s true
18 — excellent! Now Goldy, can you stand up like John did? It would do wonders for your credibility, honesty and character….which should only help you establish a bigger audience with more influence, etc.
HEY DOOFUS: WHAT’S YOUR “PLAN B” IF THINGS DON’T GO YOUR WAY IN 2008?
YOU’VE BEEN ON A LOSING STREAK A LONG TIME DOOFUS. I EXPECT IT TO CONTINUE.
The point is here *both parties* do stupid stuff like this.
WHICH IS WHY YOU CHECK OFF EVERYTHING WITH AN “R” NEXT TO IT.
@21
John Kerry lost because people didn’t know what he stood for or against. He continues to this day, his love of putting his own foot in his mouth. Thankfully, he finally has wised up and figured out that the majority of people don’t like him and don’t trust him……….
@31
Why not go check out what your Democratic brothers are doing in the CT legislature after hours…….. two of them were caught on video cameras going through a female Republican staffers desk……..
Had the following conversation with the WSRP. It’s from my gmail account so the first email is at the bottom, the last at the top.
> LOL… You mean the WSRP aren’t the folks doing this?
> http://www.horsesass.org/?p=2497
>
> On 2/3/07, Tom Perry wrote:
> > Please be more specific. What polls are you referring to?
> >
> > Tom Perry
> > WSRP
> >
> > To: comments@wsrp.org
> > Subject: push polling
> >
> > Please stop with the push poll lies you have hired Research Data Designs tospread. These polls will only make people trust the Republican party even
> > less.
>
> >
> >
Ooo… There’s more.
Tom Perry
to me
show details
10:25 am (1 minute ago)
Well, if it’s on Horse’s Ass it MUST be true. Now that I know where your
allegiances lie there’s no point in having a rational discussion with you.
That being said, I can tell you that the Washington State Republican Party
is NOT currently doing polling of any kind. Someone else is paying for that,
and I have no idea who it is.
Tom
(hehehehe) I hate that. Even my gay friends say that’s UNUSUALLY gay! hehehehe
Yep, we ran a squeaky-clean election against a well-funded, well-organized bunch that pulled every dirty trick they could come up with in an evenly divided district, and won all every seat (US Senator, US Representative, two State Representatives, one State Senator), all by landslides.
Nation-wide, we ran the cleanest campaigns on record, fighting against candidates that pulled every dirty trick they could conceive of, and we won bigger than even the most optimistic of us had hoped.
And you want to stop working that way and use the tactics of the losers? I hate to break it to you, Right, but there are a lot more of us that believe in honest elections and work to elect qualified, honest Democrats than there are of you that seem to want to cheat.
Of course, there are some ultra-far-left types that could never get elected honestly, because most people, including most Democrats, think that they’re loony.
If you want to get them elected, then you’re correct. You’ll have to cheat.
re 30: Mr. Barelli: Countering Republican lies with truth is NOT being “just as bad as they are”. It’s valid self- defense. Doing things your way has led to Republican victories for DECADES. They have set this country back to the 1890’s. That was their goal, and anyone who reads even the funny pages knows that. And we knew it all along as our parents, “the most naive generation ever” voted in that head bobbing retard, Ronald Reagan.
How do you like it now that you know who that “shining city on the hill” was being built for with your lifetime of effort?
” … the only way to fight knavery is with more knavery.”
Niccolo Machiavelli in, The Prince.
You can roll over and die, John, but not me. I’m fightin’ these assholes tooth and nail.
Being “clean” didn’t win the last election. Showing a little backbone did.
Quoting Machiavelli isn’t going to get you any points with me, since I do not believe that the ends justify the means. One of my greatest fears is that we (whoever we currently happen to be) will turn into those we hate, fear and fight. Fear that the United States, in fighting terrorists, will turn into a nation of terrorists ourselves. Fear that the Democrats, trying to exorcise the evil that is Bush Republicanism, will become just as corrupt and nasty as the Bush Republicans.
There are two ways to fight back. One is by resorting to dirty tricks, push polls, and doing the same crap that causes the public to distrust Republicans today. (Seen Bush’s approval ratings lately?) Basically, by turning into Bush Republicans. The other is to scatter the cockroaches by shining sunlight on them, by exposing their hypocrisies, by inoculating the nation against their dirty tricks, and by showing the American public that you can be a politician and be honest. How can the Democrats claim they are the party that says you can get ahead by working hard and playing by the rules otherwise?
The second approach worked pretty well in 2006. Let’s try it some more.
As we all know, Luke continues to be paid by the state of Washington under the direction of our attorney general Rob McKenna while he runs this state’s Greedy Old Party a full time pard position. A few wingnuts over on Postman’s blog have suggested that while Luke is running their state party, he is not yet taking pay from the GOP.
So, it follows, that each and every one of us helped to pay for this GOP push poll. Nice.
The Republicans don’t need to push poll anyone about the Democratic legislature. There are more than enough tax increases, looney bills, and lobbyist-paid legislation pending that everyone can see what the legislature is about.
All voters need to do is read their daily newspaper and watch the local nightly news………..
OOPS, I forgot DOT’s constant screw-ups and the viaduct debacle, you know the one where all the Democrats are viciously fighting each other!
27, 28
A plausible(?) denial is exactly whay I’d expect from a Repubelickin’ operative. Front groups are the usual conduits they use to pay polling firms.
@21 – Yes, Kerry lost because he didn’t fight back with honest righteousness and anger, not more mudslinging.
Mudslinging begets mudslinging and everybody will tire of that eventually. And you’ll do nothing but elect the best mudslinger.
I was some honest, ethical people in office.
Attempts to change the subject and the old “everyone does it” dodge. You Repubelickers are nothing, if not consistent.
Smeg: Agree with you about the lack of accountability in government works. But when you hold the government accountable, you’re holding yourself accountable to fixing it. Vicious circle isn’t it? It is still tax money that will fix it. And neither party is free of such wrongs. But, those that are responsible should be pink slipped. I agree with that.
Also, cite the link for the CT case, please.
Finally, John Kerry did lose (if he did?-certain questions about that) partly because he never really defined himself. I told a precinct chairman that very thing in September before the election that very thing. He was a poor candidate. Yet look how close he came . . . what does that tell you?
barrelli: Nation-wide, we ran the cleanest campaigns on record,
Is that true? What’s your source that ours was the cleanest campaign? Pretty potent if true.
yer killing me at 32: Awesome post!
Absolutely agreed. We did a lot of that in the last election. It is more work that just coming up with counter-lies about the Republicans, but makes for a more permanent victory
I disagree, and the last election proves my point.
I agree that “showing backbone” was as important as keeping our campaigns clean. It is possible to have a completely clean, yet lackluster and tepid campaign. Heck, we’ve done that often enough too.
It is also possible to have a clean, energetic, campaign where we speak openly and honestly to the issues, and demand that our opponents do the same. There’s nothing dirty in that, unless we deliberately do it in a way that would mislead most people.
You know, stuff like scheduling a bogus floor vote on the first day of the legislature on a “child molester” bill, then claiming that anyone that wanted to read and debate the bill first was voting to protect child molesters. (The Republicans did that, and tried to make a really big deal about it.)
It was dishonest when they claimed that vote was in favor of child molesters, but they were arguably “telling the truth” about the vote.
If we would look at something they did and consider it dishonest, then we shouldn’t do it either. And funny thing, the voters saw through that stuff when the Republicans tried it.
“They did it, so we need to do too” is at best silly and at worst a formula for losing in the long term.
They did that, and I’d really rather we not do it too.
Nothing to add to that. It just needs to be said again, and again, and again, for as long as people keep saying that we need to fight as dirty as they do.
We need to fight as hard as they do, not as dirty. And when we do, we win. Witness 2006.
re 32: The ends don’t ALWAYS justify the means, but sometimes they do. Hiroshima and Nagasaki come to mind.
It’s time for someone to resort to saying something about comparing apples to oranges.
Labeling something as “looney” is no way to convince me that you know what you are talking about. But, if I were a Machiavellian, it would give me great insight into how to motivate you to do things against your own self interest.
@14 “Thomas Trainwinder says: The point is here *both parties* do stupid stuff like this. 02/03/2007 at 8:38 am”
Bullshit! I don’t recall EVER hearing of the Washington Democrats doing anything remotely close to what the WSGOP does routinely. What a lame fucking way to excuse GOP dirty tricks.
“looney” is a word used by people who don’t have the facts to use.
Also, Nagasaki and Hiroshima did not have to happen and should not have happened. The Japanese were done. It will eventually be considered an arrogant and unneeded act by the US.
re 42: Hoisting someone by their own petard (“Macaca”) is perceived by the opposition as being “just as bad as they are”. If that’s Machiavellian, then crack open the red wine and heat up the spaghetti, ’cause here I come!!
I realize what I said is politically incorrect and anathema to the “nanny” leftists, but in the words of the comic genius, Steve Martin: “Fuck ’em if they can’t take a joke!”
My subjective opinion, based on more than 32 years of elections that I’ve voted in (although I was more involved with this one than with earlier elections). The folks I worked with were people that I knew well enough to know that they insisted on a clean fight, even when the other side played dirty.
And it has given me a perspective on the tempation to play dirty. That stunt I described earlier was done specifically to knock my guy out of the race and replace him with a one-issue candidate that would reliably vote the Republican party line.
The Speakers Roundtable spent a pile of money telling folks that Derek Kilmer voted against a bill to keep child molesters in jail, based on that floor vote on the first day of the legislature. Derek’s campaign manager was the person that essentially “talked me off the ceiling” on that one, telling me that people would see through it if we just told the truth. (Yes, I’ve found it’s much easier to talk of running clean campaigns when it is still an academic issue.)
He was right, and in my heart, I knew he was right at the time. The temptation is to fight fire with fire. Turns out that water does a better job.
re 47: Revisionism. You were’t there and you are Monday Morning Quarterbacking.
Do you really think Truman would have dropped the bomb if he didn’t think it was absolutely necessary? If you do, then what evidence moves you to believe that?
@20 ” … in 2008 the voters will wise up and put liberals in their rightful place.”
No doubt. http://tinyurl.com/37rwoj
42. We need to fight as hard as they do, not as dirty. And when we do, we win. Witness 2006.
I agree. The opposition has long history of dirty tricks in campaigns, going back to at least 1968. The Young Repubelickers is the incubator for this corruption and I really doubt that campus Democratic groups can catch up to them in vileness. In order to promulgate this behavior, the party has to be OK with putting their dirty tricksters, such as Rehnquist and Cheney, into the highest postitons in the land. The Democrats will never get away with that.
Also, anything we do that even hints at unfairness is responded to with spitefullness and excessiveness. Take holding votes open longer than 15 minutes in the House. Jim Wright did that in 1988 to arm-twist one Democrat who voted aganist the majority into changing his vote. Fifteen years later, the Repubes use that fig-leaf to justify holding votes open for hours, while bribing their members.
Do Democrats sometimes resort to dirty tricks, sure? The rank-and-file punish them for it though. You’ll never see that from the corrupt ‘pubes.
@20 ” … in 2008 the voters will wise up and put liberals in their rightful place.”
No doubt. http://tinyurl.com/37rwoj
A clean fight is always the best thing. But if your opponent believes in hitting first and hitting hard, you may want to rethink your strategy — because you will lose a lot.
BTW, Barelli, you should lose that silly sketch of you on your add and put up instead sun and surf . . . it would be much more compelling.
@22 That’s just what you want, isn’t it, Thomas? Liberals willing to be doormats for GOP thugs and bullies. Fuck you! We’re going to skin Republicans alive!*
* Not really! Just a General Patton joke.
@47
World War II didn’t need to happen either. Hitler could have committed suicide…… along with the other two idiots who tried to take over the world!
The Bataan Death March didn’t have to happen, the Japanese could have treated American prisoners much better than that!
could have, should have, would have, what the fuck do two bombs have to do with the current conversation?
Talk about fucking looney!
52.
The way to fight back is what Goldy is doing. Expose it.
The problem is getting the message out to the citizenry, and the netroots is helping there.
Don’t every let it go unchallenged that the Democrats are as bad as the dark side. It just isn’t so.
Never said it was. He really said it, in the context and situation that it was shown in. It wasn’t something dredged up from a college freshman term paper, or something where we were misleading people about what it meant.
There was a case where it is said that a person lost an election because his opponent claimed that the candidate’s wife was a “thespian”. – That would be dirty politics, unless somehow her performance on stage was an issue.
But the answer to that issue is not to dredge up some perfectly innocent fact that we can twist around, the answer is to make sure folks understand the term “thespian”.
When we publicize something that we know is an innocent miswording or mistake, and we know that if the whole story was known, it would be no big deal, that’s dishonest and wrong.
When we publicize something that was really said or done, showing the whole context simply let folks see truth, that’s not dishonest, and is perfectly fair campaigning.
Not only did that “macaca” incident highlight Senator Allen’s apparent opinion of immigrants and people of color, but it also highlighted the fact that he was an idiot, as he knew that he was being taped. No twisting or distorting of the facts was necessary or desireable.
I trust that we can all see the difference.
@34 Could you be more specific, Mac? Tell us which child shouldn’t get an education — or shouldn’t get vaccinated. Name the town that you believe should do without safe drinking water, or the freight mobility project you would excise from DOT’s budget.
Speaking of loony bills, remember last spring’s gambit by Republicans to lock up sex offenders for life? Nearly every cop and prosecutor in the state was against it. Why? Because, in the real world, the GOP’s bill was a get-out-of-jail-free card for sexual predators and would have made society less safe.
Republican legislators introducted their bill out of order, contrary to legislative rules and procedures, and knowing it was a piece of shit that would get shot down on both procedural and substantive grounds. Why? Because it was nothing but a stage prop for a vicious, untruthful telephone “push poll” campaign against Democratic legislators.
You assholes got your just reward in November.
Smeg, you have to look at different situations and then judge the merit of each individually. That takes a certain amount of thinking and judgment – two things in which you are deficient.
We had no control over the Bataan Death March. We can only control ourselves.
We are the only people who have used the atomic bomb – twice. We didn’t need to. We should be ashamed.
Of course, it is quite obvious the right knows no shame – about anything. Thinking is not a strength on the right. Knee-jerk reactions and superficial feel-good choices seem to win the day for you guys.
Thanks, Roger. That’s a great articulation of “looney” . . .
Roger,
Education isn’t looney to either side, nor is freight mobility or vacinations………
Body piercings? driving and text messaging or talking on a cell phone using your hands, dogs in bars,
AS for DOT, they just screwed up buss lanes around Kirkland and now they all have to be redone – to the tune of mulitmillions and the sacrifice of another project somewhere. Their big white DOT campaign was a big fiasco down here and cost over 40 grand – did they admit that they were wrong-NO, they said they would try their damn dots somewhere else in the state…………
As for the sex molestors – there must be something in the damn water up here………. they are everywhere and clearly the Democratic plan isn’t working for the rapist, thugs, and thieves who are twenty plus time offenders and then they get out and rape, kill and committ every crime imaginable.
Duncan was in the Washington prison system of justice for over 19 years – he got out and instead of being committed, the board didn’t believe he was a danger, now 6 people are dead and Shasta Groene will never have her life or her innocence back.
I didn’t like or approve of what the Republicans did with that bill, but I certainly didn’t like the Democratic response to it either – it was just as bad.
@#49
Derek and Josh (and Ryan Mello) are just the kind of people we need to move the Democratic Party forward. I’ve been happy to help them out when ever I can.
Gidget,
It doesn’t matter what name you post under – you are a racist, sexist, self-rightous pompus now-it-all who knos nothing!
Well Johnboy thankfully, the Dem leadership isn’t listening to people like you on the national level. You are entitled to your own opinion, but your time here being beaten by Publicans has left you of the mind that you can also have your own facts. The truth is, more than ever, last Nov we kicked ass because we fought fire with fire. And every single analysis of our loss in 2004 shows it was Kerry’s unwillingness to out-swift the swift-boaters, that cost us the election. If the Publican wing of the Democratic party had any power, I’d worry about your positions. But I am close enough to the decision makers to know you’re on the outside dude. We’re going to be meaner than ever the next time around. Let that be a warning to you, your ilk, and your Publican pals.
Smegmac. . .reality enforces the “two second rule” quite brutally. . .it is often fatal to tail-gate. ANY effort to lessen the fatalities on the hiway should be applauded.
Do you tailgate?
Were you ticketed?
Screech away all you want.
Frogman,
I don’t tailgate and I wasn’t ticketed for anything. If you want the white dots up there in the Seattle area, call DOT, they got totally slammed for their last fiaso down here in Thurston County.
Kerry can’t out the swift boaters, he didn’t have the credibility to out anyone. He lost it with all of his anit-Vietnam hatred.
Smegma. Slammed by Rightwingnuts. Not by professional traffic engineers. Keep screechin’, and just keep yapping those Wingnut Carping Points. . .we need a super majority in the Legislature.
Smeg: knos nothing? (laughing out loud here)
You’ll notice that Goldy hasn’t said another thing about the “Payday Lenders”. Ever since Goldy found out that the DEMOCRATS in the legislature don’t want the bill (to reduce “Payday Loans” from 392% to 36% per annum interest) passed, or even voted on, and that “Payday Lenders” — at over $31,000 — are one of Christine Gregoire’s leading sources of campaign donations.
http://www.horsesass.org/?p=2492#comment-641608
Smeg: Kerry can’t out the swift boaters, he didn’t have the credibility to out anyone. He lost it with all of his anit-Vietnam hatred.
Except with the people who should know: those on the boat with him.
There you go again. . . baa, baa, baa, baa, baa.
DOT was slammed by the newsmedia and the officials who demanded that the damn dots get removed from the I-5 corridor that they put them on……… they were only on pavement for two days before DOT had to cover them and remove the signs……….
It’s credibility with the voters that counts, not the two sailors on his boat.
Is Kerry running for President? NO, because he knows he won’t make it through the primaries – Democratic primaries….
73.
That’s a completely unfair assessment of what Goldy wrote, in which it was clear that the payday lender controversy was among the Democrats. A more liberal Democrat was attempting to move the caucus.
We know you Pubes want to kiss the payday lenders asses.
Kerry was sold to us Deaniacs as more “electable”. He can’t make that dog hunt anymore.
Not because of Swiftboaters, but because he can’t read his lines.
Let’s not get sold another “electable” candidate in 2008 (like Hillary.) Every Senator in the Democratic Party thinks he could be elected, but most of them shouldn’t be.
@35 Democrats? The WSDOT engineers are bureaucrats, not Democrats. If you don’t know the difference, I can’t help you.
Harry Tuttle @ 77
Shouldn’t that be “a more principled Democrat”, instead of “a more liberal Democrat”? Steve Kirby’s 29th district is the most heavily Democrat and liberal district in Pierce County. The GOP didn’t even run anybody there in 2006. When they do, they get 25% to 30% of the vote, at best. Sherry Appleton’s 23rd district in north Kitsap County has been considered a swing district. Until very recently, they usually elected at least one GOP member from that district. They even elected Ellen Craswell to several terms in the legislature.
I don’t see the “Payday Lender” controversy as being a conservative vs. liberal issue. Some of the most liberal Democrats in the legislature — Margarita Prentice from King County’s Rainier Valley 11th district on the Senate Side included — are the ones who are bottling the reform bill up in committee. Instead, it is a matter of moral principles.
80 Oh c’mon Richard, quit blowing smoke. That’s as transparent as hell. How many of those beady-eyed loan sharks do you think call themselves Democrats, or vote Democrat? Betcha every last one of ’em is hard-core wingnut. There is very much a philosophical divide here; liberals believe in regulating predatory business practices to protect the public, while conservatives have a dog-eat-dog view of the world — and are ideologically disposed to let the meanest, most vicious dogs eat all they want. (Maybe because they’re big-dog wannabes and hope to sit at that table themselves.)
Tell me all you want about my own party, but it’ll be a cold day in hell before the Pubes do something about payday lending. Even the chariman of the committee is willing to do “something”.
Screwing people is what you guys do best. If there’s a buck in it one of your assholes wants it. Get with the message, poor people are poor because they’re sloths, Richard. You know that. Your guys have a moral duty to strengthen themselves at the expense of the weak.
You can’t run as a Democrat here, Richard. Go play with you Pube brethren.
Smeg: It’s credibility with the voters that counts,
Like the voters have a clue what happened in Nam . . .
Well, Smeg, I guess that’s true for you. You’ll decide with your ass before getting facts.
baa baa baa baa baa baa
the credibility of sheep following their leaders over the cliff . . . disgusting
46 Rabbit: Your memory is short. A quick google search brings up many cases. Here’s just one. Now, if you hold yourself to a standard, you will correct your accusatory attack on my point: http://politicalities.typepad......n_giv.html
Harry Tuttle @ 82
The 2005-06 U.S. Congress — under Republican leadership — passed a bill last year which prohibits payday lenders from charging military service members (or members of their families) more than 36% per annum interest. This law was signed by the Republican president, George W. Bush.
By contrast, the 2005-06 Washington legislature and Governor — all controlled by Democrats — did absolutely nothing about payday lending, not even for members of the military. And they are on track to do absolutely nothing this year as well — and probably in 2008 as well.
The proposal by Steve Kirby (D-29) is not very substantial. It will allow payday borrowers to convert their payday loans into being payable over a 60 day period once every 12 months. Not totally worthless, but not very substantial either. They will still be able to charge 392% interest for the other 305 days of the year.
President Bush is doing more to get the U.S. out of Iraq and stop global warming, than Steve Kirby is doing to stop payday lending abuses.
Roger Rabbit @ 81
I don’t think these loan sharks are either hard-core Democrats or hard-core Republicans. That would require principles, which they obviously lack if they are lending money at 392% interest. The Bassford family, who runs “Money Tree”, has given nearly $200,000 in PDC donations. This money seems fairly evenly split between Democrats and Republicans. Their most prominent recipients of “Money Tree” donations — Christine Gregoire, Rob McKenna and Gary Locke.
more than 36% . . . .boy, that’s a deal!
Guess I should have said “less” than 36% . . . Pope, you’re sure do find silver linings in odd places. . .
@79 Roger,
Those Democrats viciously fighting are Frank Chopp, Christine Gregoire and YOUR Mayor………… Democrats all three!
The payday lending bill had only 23 no votes in the House, so lets not get carried away with patting your Pubes on the back.
Steve Buyer, a Repube from Indiana, and the chairman of the House Veterans’ Affairs Committee at the time, was strongarming House negotiators to drop the rate cap from the defense bill, as was Geoff Davis, a Pube from Kentucky.
Bill Nelson, Democrat of Florida, talked Jim Talent into fighting back and the interest rate cap was saved in the 2007 Defense Appropriation, so don’t get so high and mighty about the Pubes good conduct. The entire military establishment was for the cap, but some of your guys wanted to strip it from the bill. They just couldn’t get away with it because of the November election.
Harry Tuttle @ 90
Interesting history of the federal military payday lending cap. And I will even defer to your analysis of the political machinations. Let’s just assume that a handful of Republicans in Congress didn’t want this to pass. And also assume that every single Democrat in Congress wanted it to pass.
How does this justify the State of Washington, under solid Democrat control, not doing a damned thing effective against these payday lending sharks? Especially when the state Democrat party platform puts this matter as a top priority that needs to be taken care of.
SgmMac @ 89
Gregoire, Nickles and Chopp may be fighting over the Alaskan Way Viaduct. But all three of them are major recipients of payday lender donations.
43
I am very conflicted about the use of atomic weapons in Japan. On the one hand, I find it abhorrent that we dropped the bomb on them and caused such a loss of life. But on the other, the best military strategists and intelligence analysts of the time had concluded that, unless the Emperor were forced to totally and unconditionally surrender to the Allies, the Japanese would continue to fight on. In fact plans were drawn up to invade the Japanese home islands beginning in late 1945, under the code name Operation Downfall.
From the article linked to:
Given the anticipated scope of devastation that Operation Coronet (the second phase of Downfall) would have wrought on both American and Japanese forces, it seems in hindsight that dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved many, many more lives than they destroyed. That still doesn’t make it any more pleasant, but it was what it was.
Now back to ends and means: There are times when we need to take particular means to an end. What I am saying is that ends do not of necessity justify means. If you have to use an evil means (fabricating evidence to take the country into war, for example) to justify an end (regime change in Baghdad and/or the protection of our oil interests, take your pick), what have you done?
Are you a Christian? Well, either way, please consider the words of the Master Teacher:
91.
It doesn’t, and that is why there is a controversy among Democrats.
But that doesn’t make the Pubes the saviors of the poor.