Much ado has been made recently over a proposal by a group of local business “leaders” to save the Sonics and keep them in Seattle. The local group proposes buying the Sonics and investing $150 million of their money in renovating Key Arena, conditioned on an additional $150 million in matching taxpayer funds.
This is by far the most reasonably reasonable arena proposal pitched thus far, or at least it would be if not for a handful of obvious stumbling blocks: A) the Sonics’ Oklahoma City based owners insist the team is not for sale; B) NBA Commissioner David Stern has promised that Seattle would not get another franchise if they allowed the Sonics to leave; and C) there was no chance in hell the tax authorization legislation could make it out of Olympia this year, coming just a week before the end of the session. And oh yeah… D) a substantial majority of Seattle voters don’t seem to give a shit whether the team stays or leaves.
According to a March 3, SurveyUSA/KING-5 poll which seemed to fly under the media and political radar, 77% of respondents said they opposed spending public funds to renovate Key Arena… about the same percentage of voters who approved Initiative 91 in 2006, a citywide measure that barred exactly that. Only 37% of respondents indicated they even care if the Sonics leave Seattle in two years, and a full two-thirds of respondents believe the team’s move to Oklahoma City is already a done deal. Hardly a popular uproar demanding the Legislature to drop all their current business and push through an arena funding bill.
Not that the folks behind this proposal ever believed they’d get a bill out of the current session. These are savvy folk. Rich folk, who’ve spent plenty of money on Olympia lobbyists in the past. They know how the system works, and they know that any proposal pitched during the final week of the session isn’t a serious proposal at all. Why they pitched it at the very last minute, I don’t know, but before any of you diehard Sonics fans get too excited by media efforts to hype this proposal into genuine hope, take a look at the facts. No bill is going to pass this session to rebuild Key Arena, and until we hear otherwise, no NBA team is available to play in it.
I’m not saying the proposal isn’t for real, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the local group eventually gets the taxpayer money they seek — if they can actually produce a team — but I’m guessing the sudden display of urgency is mostly intended to impress their fellow billionaires at the upcoming NBA owners meeting. And while I suppose it is interesting to watch the intricate mating rituals peculiar to the strange birds who comprise our nation’s moneyed elite, I’m just not so sure that us average folk really care all that much anymore.
Take a look at how G. W. Bush got rich, then get back to me on this whole idea of subsidizing sports teams with taxes.
Key Arena is a public facility, so if we were to renovate the public facility, who else should pay for it but the public?
I’m just sayin’…
My concern is if we lose the Sonics, that arena goes to waster and MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of tax dollars gone! Think of how much tax the state and local get for Sonics games?!? Besides, since the Safeco Field tax is almost paid off….are they just gonna make that tax go away??? NO! So why not use it to create even more tax revenue thru Sonics tickets sales, hotel tax, car rental tax, restaurant tax and Sonics merchandise tax? Oh and all that parking money made during Sonics games!
The Key Arena should be demolished. The city needs a state of the art facility that can be configured for up to 35,000 people.
Roger Waters skipped Seattle last year. Guess why? How many conventions, concerts, and other events will not come to Seattle simply due to the city lacking a proper facility?
This city is so lucky to have the natural beauty it does. Our city is not sprawled out like others, and could be a magnet for major convention business during every season save winter. Without the natural beauty, this town would have the tourist appeal of Ellenburg. Instead of relying on this built in advantage, the city should improve upon it with a state of the art venue.
But we have a shit facility wrapped around a political entity(Seattle Center) that keeps us from doing what we all know is needed….building a first class facility.
To me the NBA is like midget wrestling. But it would give a new arena 41 dates a year to pay bonds off with. Before building it, we would have to secure an NHL franchise too.
It should be located near the other sports stadiums, and the city, state, and private businesses should budget $400 million toward it.
This issue is another prime example of how there is no leadership from our political class. We build streetcars that are empty, which have cost us $80 million, but see no need to build a venue to attract big conventions and events that would draw people into town to spend, spend, spend.
If you do not think this is true, try finding a hotel room when the Toronto Blue Jays come to town. Mariners staff refer to it as “Canada Weekend”
A big chunk of the financing could be raised simply by extending the current taxing authority used to finance the other stadiums. Say what you will, Safeco is a net plus to our ability to attract tourism. How many Japanese tourists come to Seattle to see the Mariners play. That makes our economy better, and has benefits that are not easily quantifiable
Key Arena is a public facility, so if we were to renovate the public facility, who else should pay for it but the public?
OK, then we the public rent our facility to the team owners at fair market value, we get a split of the ticket price, and they don’t get any split of the parking revenue, because that’s a public facility too. That’s fair, right?
Didn’t the owners make $17 million in profits last year even with this ‘sucky’ arena and suckier team? Boy, I would hate to be in that business, as Don Joe points out.
The funding solution the city would use for its $75 million dollar end of the deal would come from user fees on the stadium…which should get around I-91’s strictures. The funding from the State may come from extending the taxes used to pay for Safeco since it will be paid of sooner than expected. I’m basically ok with that as someone who enjoys sports and thinks they add to the quality of life in the city and region.
As to the reason for the bid by Balmer & co…I think you’re exactly right. The NBA would be stupid to move this team if there’s any notion that the team can be provided a good situation here. I expect the NBA will now put off ruling on the move request until the legislature acts on Balmer’s proposal, or will flat deny Bennett the move at this time. But Stern has been a complete tool and the NBA has made stupid moves before (Vancouver, B.C. to Memphis and Charlotte to New Orleans).
@ 6 – NO DOUBT! And they claimed they “lost” money! No they dodn’t LOSE money they just didn’t make as much money as the year before, they were still in the positive though!
The Mariners are the team that profitted $17 million…And if the city is going to split ticket sales, then they should split all other sales because without the Sonics they would not have a tenant.
Hannah @ 3: Before you start spouting the standard NBA argument about how much a professional sports team brings in to a town in ancillary tax revenues, increased business from tourists, etc., you should consider:
The official position of the Sonics, made in court and presumably supported by sworn affidavits, is that the Sonics should be allowed to break the lease and leave Seattle early because there is only minimal economic advantage to the city derived from the Sonics being here.
Bye,Bye Sonics, good by Sonics, I think I going to save some Mullah.
Recent Offer:
One hell of a nothing proposal, way the hell too late!
@1 Hmmm, I didn’t think of that, but you’re right — if we throw $150,000,000.00 of public money at the Sonics we might be creating another George W. Bush!! Another reason not to do it.
Is anyone anywhere holding some American hostages we can trade David Stern for?
I never thought it was a serious proposal – way too late in the process for anybody to think it had a chance. I think it was made so the local politician could say he tried everything, it gives them political coverage.
But then, Bennett’s proposal was never serious, either. It was a proposal guaranteed to solicit a rejection, so then Bennett could shrug, tell Stern “We tried – they didn’t want us”, and then leave town.
Personally, I don’t care. I’ve never been a basketball fan. I’ve attended a couple of Sonics games as part of a corporate event, but that’s about it for me. Since they haven’t had a serious contending team in many years, it’s hard for me to be motivated about trying to make them stay.
@2 If it’s a public facility, how come a privately owned sports team gets to keep all the revenue, including non-sports revenue?
RR @ 14: Well, we could trade him to the Taliban in exchange for a jackass, which might be an equal trade, come to thing about it….
@3 The team gets all that revenue, including the parking revenue, dummy! The net return to taxpayers is zero. What rock do you live under?
@4 “How many conventions, concerts, and other events will not come to Seattle simply due to the city lacking a proper facility?”
So what do you call the Washington Convention and Trade Center that we taxpayers shelled out several hundred million for? A cafeteria?
The line of people waiting to pick my pockets stretches all the way around the block. Stadiums. Convention centers. Art museums and opera halls. Light rail. Libraries. Bridges. Every bit of it gold-plated, every project costing many times what other cities pay for comparable facilities. Is there something in the water here that makes people think Seattleites are the world’s most gullible taxpayers?
@9 So you think that I, as a taxpayer, should buy a private business an expensive facility, pay for all the maintenance and repairs, and let them keep all the revenue and basically pay no rent? Fuck you, jacob. If you want the Sonics that badly, then YOU pay for it. Leave my money out of this.
@10 Every university study ever done of the economic impacts on local communities of professional sports teams has concluded that there are none.
At best, they create about 50 to 100 part-time jobs paying minimum wage.
@17 I’m in.
Where is the Mississippi Primary Voting Thread?
@18 – so you are saying the state and local governments make absolutely no money from the Sonics???? What rock do you live under? Those people who buy tickets, SALES TAX, that merchandise with the Sonics logo, SALES TAX, those people that travel to Seattle to see their team or the Sonics team and rent a car or stay in a hotel,TAX TAX TAX, those restaurants and bars that are packed and have high sales volumes during Sonics games, yet even more tax.
@10 – Of course that’s the Sonics stance, look who’s running them BENNETT. Mr Liar himself! Anything to convince the state we really don’t need the tax revenues the team brings in. It’s not just tax revenue, but small restaurants and local businesses will see a loss of business without Sonics fans 41 nights a year.
Hannah;
Loss of business, or just re-distribution of existing business? Loss of tax revenue, or re-distribution of tax revenue?
In other words, we are talking about “entertainment choices”. If the Sonics aren’t around, then would that money be stuck under the mattress, or would it be spent on other entertainment options – Seahawk or Mariner games, Husky games, movies, theatre, etc. Either way, it’s a wash as far as the state is concerned.
The only way any business CREATES jobs (or tax revenue) is (a) if it sells products outside of the economic jurisdiction being measured, or (b) if it brings money into the jurisdiction (such as by promoting tourist traffic), or (c) if it takes a cut from trade which passes through the jurisdiction (import/export companies, freight forwarders, trucking companies, port districts, etc.).
The NBA, NFL, MLB, NASCAR, and others have always argued that such teams generate enough tourist dollars and tax revenues which exceed the public subsidies for the stadiums. But there is serious doubts among many that is the case.
@28 -if that is the case, then good bye sonics, don’t let the door hit you on the way out!
Hey Rabbit, do you know you Roger Waters is? He isn’t playing the Washington state convention center, or that shitty little Key Arena either. Hell, even Eddie Vedder is skipping Seattle this time around.
Whatever. You call yourself liberals, but have the same knee jerk reactions to different political stimuli that the Republicans do. Just as cemented to your positions. Just as outmoded.
You do know that liberal is defined as someone who is willing to listen to differing positions, political or social views that put a great emphasis on creating new social patterns or values?
Where does this fit into your rigid view on improving the city by creating a new venue? When the Sonics leave town, the only thing that will change is that the city will not have a client to tax 41 times a year. Maybe you do not like watching great live performances, musical, performing, and yes, sports. But some people do. It is seen by some liberals as a city improvement.
But yeah, better to build more streetcars that nobody rides.
“The NBA, NFL, MLB, NASCAR, and others have always argued that such teams generate enough tourist dollars and tax revenues which exceed the public subsidies for the stadiums. But there is serious doubts among many that is the case.”
Apples to Oranges…..Qwest generally only generates 10 dates a year that generate revenue. Safeco generates at least 81. That is 10x as many chances that out of state money comes to Seattle. A new arena would generate 41 Sonic dates, maybe more NHL dates, and top draw concerts on other dates.
But hey, let’s build a International district to first hill streetcar instead.
I say good bye Sonics, we don’t need your money or business (obviously)
This is all totally absurd. The Sonics, even back when they were winning, weren’t filling 16,000 seats. So what the hell are 35,000 seats going to accomplish?
It’s done. Stick a fork in it. You boil the tar and I’ll pluck the chicken.
ArtFart: Ever been to the Spectrum, The Omni, or the old MSG (well the new MSG counts too)?
The diff is the fans weren’t fair weather fans. And the cities was (still are) rabid about their teams.
Seattle fans are so “sophisticated” to the point they are fickle when the team isn’t playing well. I go to games to enjoy the fun of watching skillful people doing something they enjoy. I wish there was professional hockey. Jarome Iginla is one of my favorite players.
Hey Hannah and other sports team subsidizers who promote corporate welfare for monopolies and millionaires:
Here’s a quicker idea on generating tax revenue.
Every Saturday night let’s take our tax dollars and put about $400,000 down right on the floor of key arena — a non renovated key arena. (Saving that renovation cost! what’s that now about 75 million??) This will generate multiple tourist visits and native visits to Seattle to go get the money. The visitors will generate immense restaurant and hotel revenue producing BAZILLIONS OF TAX REVENUE up the wazoo! The multiplier effects will be even more ginormous — KAZILLIONS!!
If there is a problem with public order or guns or something we can just give raffle tickets to the big crowd that will gather. Then televise it and make BOZOBAZILLIONS MORE !!!!
This will be so successful, then we can duplicate this at Safeco Field, Seahawks and Husky Stadium the Sun Dome in Yakima and the Tacoma Dome in Tacoma and so on and on and on and on and on !!!!!
In this way, the economic benefits will grow without limit. We can cancel all taxes and fund all programs because we know the way to make money for the government is for it to just put money out there in society — the law of attraction says if we do even more money will come back in the overflowing abundance of the universe!!!
Damn, we’re smarter than those dumb ass old alchemists aren’t we? Only an idiot would oppose putting out money on the floor, or putting out money on sports monopolies or millionaires, because only an idiot would oppose SOMETHING FOR NOTHING.
I’m a Sonics fan and I will really miss them–but we’ve known that they’re going to Oklahoma since Bennett bought them. Back when he bought the Sonics, 10 minutes of Google searches on Bennett told me that this was a guy determined to bring the NBA to OK City.
By the way, anyone seen the website makeover for the Sonics? No mention of Seattle anywhere.
Chuck, yes the website is a true picture of Bennett’s intentions…and we all knew this from day one of his purchase.
And I could give a fat rat’s ass about the OKC Carpetbaggers, now that the D-League is opening up shop in Reno. Honestly, a D-League squad could probably beat the Carpetbaggers now. I’m just waiting for Kevin Durant to be sidelined for the rest of the year because of a ‘phantom injury’ of some sort, at which point, I will laugh my ass off.